Wrong Place, Wrong Time | Holly Furtick Book Club

Foreign.

Welcome to the Holly Furtick Book Club. Now today is a very special day for those of you who are a part of our book club. You know that normally we meet at 8pm on a random Tuesday night, but today we are meeting at 12pm it is a lunchtime book club and I'm at the office and I just have to show you all of the fun people that are in here with me. Okay, couple things to note. Look right back there over Ashley's head. Ashley, point up. Those are all of our book club books. And I just counted. I. I counted with my eyes. I didn't actually touch everyone. So it's roughly 43. This is our roughly 43rd book club book. And okay, in this room there are three people who have read every single book. Heidi, Lindsey and Jackie. Where are you? There's Jackie. Well, except Lindsay didn't read one that was too sad for her. She couldn't read Demon Copperhead, the Pulitzer Prize winning book. That's okay, she said it was too. Harper, I get it. Okay, not every book is for everyone. But everyone in this room works at elevation. They only represent a very small sliver of the Holly Furtick Book Club. But everyone in this room is part of the book club and they read this book, which is what we are talking about today. Wrong Time, Wrong place. And guys, I just found out. Okay, we're gonna be talking with Jillian McAllister in just a minute. And I just found out that Wrong Place, Wrong Time has sold a million copies. Like that's insane. So congratulations Jillian and we can't wait to talk to you. So here's how we do this on book club. If you have never been a part of the Holly Party Book club and this book sounds interesting to you, you're probably going to want to listen to a little bit and then get off because we do spoilers. Because this is the book club for people who actually read the book and we want to talk about it together and with you on Instagram. So let's start. Take talking about wrong place, wrong time. Tell me something that you absolutely loved about this book. Let me tell you, I have a list of things that I loved about this book along with a million other people apparently literally. Okay, first of all, this book is about a woman who witnesses her son stabbing a man and he dies. Right? Okay, just making sure. Cuz it's been a while since I read it. But her son murders a man and she's a lawyer and they go to the police station. This is all in the opening chapter. So I'M not spoiling anything yet. So they go to the police station, do all this stuff. She goes home, she falls asleep. She's like, I don't even know my son. I have no idea what's happening. She's so confused. And she wakes up the next morning, and it is the day before. And so the book keeps going back and back and back. No Devon Collins. It is not a true story. It is a fiction book. This is a majority fiction book club. Emily says you can hear the dog snoring. Beau, the dog is also in the room. So, anyway, this book is full of twists and turns. And what I loved about this book is I have certain genres that I don't particularly like. So if somebody says, oh, this book is a fantasy, you'll love it. I'm like, probably not. Or if somebody says this book is about time travel, I'm like, I tried. I just don't like time travel until this book. Okay, So I learned a lot about time travel, even though I'm not sure that it doesn't matter of what people think about time travel. And. And so. So anyway, she keeps going back and back and back, and she's trying to figure out what happened, and she's unpacking the whole thing. And it's the kind of time travel book where you're like, where if she finds the moment, then she gets put back in the present or the thing that she has to discover or uncover or whatever. And so I have. This is the best time travel book that I have ever read. It is. You're sold from the very beginning, and you keep, like, wonder. And I felt so bad for her. I was, like, so stressed because I wanted. I just wanted her to wake up in the present. And you keep thinking, oh, the next day she's gonna wake up. Because, like, in the very first, like, the first day, the first backwards day, the first day, negative one or whatever, she finds the knife right in her son's, like, backpack or whatever. And so she, like. You think, like, oh, okay, that's it. And of course it's not. And she keeps going back and back and back, and she ends up going back, like, 20 years and. And, like, just completely uncovering this story. Amu says, page turner. And Kristin Bosch says, I love the way she handled time travel in this book. So different from others that I read. Melinda Miller says, it was stressful, but, wow, what a twist. Renee says, I read it too long ago, and I'm struggling to remember the details. Hey, Renee, don't worry. We're gonna Bring it all back to you today. And we're gonna get to talk to Jillian, and she's gonna give us, like, more insight into where this book came from.

So. Okay.

First time travel book that I was ever really hooked on. This book was a mystery thriller. But also, I really loved Jen. Like, do you guys agree with me? Like, Jen, Jen was awesome. Like, you were really rooting for her to. To not just figure this out, but, like, it was really cool to watch her, like, go backwards in her life and sort of watching her take on motherhood and parenting and marriage. And, like, really, she got to relive certain moments her life. It was really awesome. So even though it was a mystery thriller, it was one where, like, the characters were really likable, because, like, a lot of mystery thrillers, you're like, I hate everybody. I hate all these people. Like, local woman missing. I was like, all of you people are so stupid. Just, you know, and so it wasn't like that. It was the opposite. You just really, like, you were really rooting for Jen. You were rooting for her son. You were rooting for her husband. I mean, you were just, like, just really wanted these people to. To. You wanted Jen to figure everything out and see what was going on. So I love that. I loved how watching Jen deal with her mom guilt, because obviously, I really related to that. And. And how we all, like, look back and we wonder, like, did I work too much? Was I present enough? Would my kids have turned out differently if I hadn't done xyz? And so it was really cool to. To watch her wrestle with that as she was going back and back. You guys agree?

Yes. Okay.

And then. Okay.

The.

The last thing that I loved. I know that a book is good when I can tell my. One of my family members about it and they're interested in it. So unfortunately, my family. They always have to hear. Somebody in my family always knows about whichever book I'm actually reading. And mostly that falls on my husband. But one night, my son Elijah, who's 18, and I were, like, looking for a movie, and we just were, like, trying not to spend a long time looking for a movie. And so we clicked on this Ryan Reynolds movie on Netflix. I don't remember what it's called, but it's like a. He goes back in time. And I was like, oh. So I started telling Elijah about time travel. Like, I know about it now. Yes, but sometimes you get caught in a time loop. He's like, mom, I know what a time loop is. No, but I read this book. And he was, like, so, so into it that he asked me if it was going to be a TV show. He did not ask me for a copy of the book, but he did ask me if it was going to be a TV show. Okay, before we bring Jillian on, I want to know first of all, okay, this is my biggest question, and I'm going to out my sister Emily. We always give Emily a hard time because Emily is a peaker. She always goes to the end of the book because she can't handle the stress. And so she was listening to this one on an audio, and she texted me the other day, and she goes, I have a confession. I was like, what is she about to tell me? And she says. She says I downloaded something so I could find out how this book ends. All right, so let me know. Did you peek? Beth, My dog drives me crazy. Who I think has maybe read all of our book club books. She said, I peaked. Elinita Fashionista says, I do the same. And then somebody says, my mom does the same. And Stephanie Van Alma says, that would totally change this book. Emily. I didn't even think of that. And Emily said this. Okay, so anybody in here? Did anybody peek? No? Okay, so peeking is not a common thing. So ifly regular says, I always peek. Okay, a lot of people. Maybe somebody in this room is not telling the truth because a lot of people on Instagram are saying that they peaked. Well, like, Emily can't I. You're right. Like, you'd be like, well, I wouldn't want to finish. I'm interested to know. Because she's too stressed. She's like, I'm too stressed. I need. Which actually, maybe if we told you, Lindsay, if we told you how could you make it through that journey was hard. If we told you that demon Copperhead is not actually a person anyway. Okay, so. So ifly regular says if you don't peek, you'd have to read the book again to understand how it unfolds. Oh, okay. That is true, because. So I did. I was listening to this lady on YouTube today talk about how she had read the book again. And I don't usually read books multiple times. And I was like, wow, okay. But if I went back and read this book, I would see everything differently.

So.

Okay, there you go. If you peek, you still only have to read it once Emily says, exactly. All right, let's talk to. Okay, wait, did I. Oh, no. I have. I have, like, one more question. Okay, so my question is, what twist surprised you most about this story? Which One. Anybody? Okay.

Who?

Somebody said her dad. Okay, Jackie, tell me, tell me. Wait, lean over so we can see. There you go. I don't know. Her husband.

I knew he was always involved, but in a good way. Her dad. I just.

Then the flood made sense.

Like, so many things that.

Where little snippets made so much sense.

Yeah.

But it was.

I just did not see that one coming.

Okay. A lot of people are agreeing with you, the dad's involvement. And then of course, other people are saying, Kelly being Ryan.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, obviously that was like a huge twist in the story, but you're right. Like, I didn't see the dad piece coming because you thought it was sort of like a sweet thing, right? That she was just. That she got to go back and see her dad because he had died. And so I. Okay. Emily says the brother identity switch was a huge twist.

I also.

Okay, the. I was. I'm so not used to reading a time travel book that I was so, like, caught up in that that I really wasn't paying attention to the. To, like, I wasn't trying to see it ahead of time, like, where the twist coming or whatever. And so I didn't see the girl at the end. Okay. Her name was Chloe and Cleo and what was her other name? Eve. Eve. I totally did not. That was like. I totally didn't see that one. That was the one you did see coming. I'm like, why is this girl still here? Like, she's got to be that baby. I. I just assumed the baby was dead.

Okay.

Okay. Everything was felt intentional, so I was like, the baby can't be there. The baby's got to be here somewhere. Makes it look familiar. All right, are you guys ready to bring Jillian on?

Yeah.

Okay, here we go. Let's see. She should be right here.

Hi. Hello. Hi. Thanks for having me.

You're. So nice to meet you. Thank you for making time to be on our book club.

No, thank you. And thank you for having me at lunchtime. It makes my life a lot easier.

It worked out good. We may switch to lunchtime every time. I don't know.

It is good trial.

I've never actually had people in the room with me. It's always on. Completely on Instagram.

So it's nice to have some.

Some people to help me carry it, I bet.

No, I've been enjoying listening. It's very useful for me, actually, to hear, like, 20 readers discuss. Oh, my God. This is, like market research for me.

That's awesome. Okay, so I always love to Start off by having our author read a selection. Do you have. Do you have a piece that you can read for us?

Yeah, I think the very beginning. Maybe just a paragraph at the beginning. Okay. Jen is glad of the clocks going back tonight. A gained hour extra time to be spent pretending she isn't waiting up for her son. Now that it is past midnight, it is officially the 30th of October, almost Halloween. Jen tells herself that Todd is 18, her September baby. Now an adult, he can do whatever he wants. She has spent much of the evening badly carving a pumpkin. She places it now on the sill of the picture window that overlooks their driveway and lights it. She only carved it for the same reason she does most things, because she felt she should. But it's actually quite beautiful in its own jagged way. So that is the very, very, very beginning.

I love that. And actually, one of my favorite quotes from the book is where I think you say something about how both phases of parenthood, the newborn years and the almost adult ones, are bookended by sleep deprivation. It's very true. So, first of all, I want you to know that a lot of the ladies here in this room came in saying, this might be my favorite book club book that we've. That we've ever read. And so, And I know that we are not alone in saying, like, what an amazing story and how just, like such a complicated plot that you were truly able to pull off. So start us from the beginning and tell me, like, where did this. How did this idea come to you? Because it's not your first book.

No, I mean, in. In the States, it's my third novel. But in the uk, I had had six bestsellers over here before this one. So I was kind of deep in my career. I think it came in, like, two parts. Like, I watched Russian Russian Doll on Netflix and I thought, why is no one written about time loop in a. Like a. In a thriller novel? Like, I don't think I'd ever seen it done. And I sort of mulled it over for a few weeks, and I was kind of like, I think it might be because, you know, on screen you can kind of montage, like, maybe it might be boring. And then I sat down in like, a November night and I put the news on, and if I hadn't done that, my life would be completely different, which kind of blows my mind. But there was this segment, like, a long, like, really moving segment about a knife crime segment, but it was from the perspective of the mother of the perpetrator rather than the victim. And I suddenly thought these two pieces, the time loop and the mother of a perpetrator fitted together. And I just text my author friend, like, what if I do my time loop book? But she wakes up the day before, and it's like, it's actually about stopping a murder. And my friend texted back, saying, I think you've just invented something. And I got, like, chills. And I just knew that that moment had changed my life.

Isn't that amazing? Like, I think it's funny how when we talk to different. I get to talk to some different authors and how stories just. Like, sometimes the story just kind of descends on you. And it was like a couple of things that happened, but then all this of a sudden, you're like, no, this is what I have to write.

So.

So you get this idea and. And. And then what? Because now you have to, like, pull this off.

I know. And weirdly, although I'm quite an anxious person in every area of my life, I'm really. My husband was like, this sounds complicated. Isn't it kind of a different genre? And I think maybe because I was in lockdown, I felt more able. Like, I wasn't seeing people in publishing. And I sort of regarded it as, like, I said to my friend, I'm just gonna hold myself up for the winter and write a really good book. And I sort of regarded it as, like, an entertainment project almost. But I just knew from day one that I was going to be able to do it. And that is not the writing experience generally. It's very torturous, usually, and it has been ever since. But this book was just one of those gems. They happen every seven years.

Maybe all six of the previous ones were torture and whatever you've written what you're working on now, but this one just all came together. Are you a fan of time travel? Like, do you, like.

Not really. I am. Like, no, I am. I am a very mainstream reader. I don't really read sci fi. I had to watch. Like, I watched Back to the Future for the first time. I watched Groundhog Day. I'd never seen Grand Hot Day, so I was, like, schooling myself. But it's weird because I think that they're the big ones that play with it. It's such human themes that you're kind of aware of it. Like, even if you don't like time travel, you've probably thought about, oh, I wish I could go back and change. You know, whatever, and you know the rules.

Like, even if you don't love that kind of sci Fi. You know, like, if you change one thing, like, you know, change one thing, the newspaper disappears and, you know, everything changes. Probably the only other time travel book that I finished was the. The Time the Time Traveler's Wife.

Yeah, I did.

Is that the one where he, like, loses all his clothes every time he.

Yeah, but I never.

I never really understood the loop. So how did you, like, research time travel?

Well, I mean, I was on the radio recently, and somebody asked me if it was autobiographical. I was laughing about it when. When somebody in the comments said, is it a true story? But I was on the radio and I had to say, like, no. Like, I've never been caught in a time loop. I basically, I Googled it. Like, could it happen? And I came across this professor at a university in Americ, and I convinced him to Zoom with me. And I guess, like, the more established you get, the more willing people are to engage with you, because they can, like, Wikipedia you and see that you're not, like, a fraud. So he, like, emailed back and he did talk to me on Zoom about the physics, but I just sat there and I thought, I'm gonna put you completely in my book. Even the T shirt you're wearing, which was the Franny and Zooey T shirt. So he just. He is Andy. So. So really, it was actually a kind of character research.

That's amazing. And he was one of my favorite characters. I loved how he gave her, like, a code word or whatever, and every time she met with him, she had to, like, start over, but she was like, no, but you believe me. And here's how. I just. I thought that was brilliant. I also. I also saw that you went. You. I heard you say that you spent a lot of time researching on Reddit.

Yes, I do, because there are people on Reddit that either believe they are time travellers or are saying that they are time travelers in order to just create chaos on Reddit. And there's this, like, whole section of Reddit called Glitch in the Matrix. And it's like, people who are like, I went my usual way to work. Like, it was completely normal. I was in my car, and then suddenly I was on a road that it was not possible for me to be on. Like, there are people that have these, like, weird, unexplained experiences, and it kind of helped me to give it color. That kind of eerie feeling that Jen gets of, like, you know, I must be going mad. Like, this has never happened to me before. And that's. I wanted to write a book, although it had time travel in that, had realism in it. And that is why, you know, she's sick. She talks to a doctor. Like, that is what I would do if I thought I was going back in time. So it kind of has that groundedness, I think.

I thought that was really funny that you were on Reddit and people, because, I mean, you can't prove that somebody didn't travel through time that they said they did. Was there anything from. Particularly from, hey, flip the dog over. Can you hear my dog snoring?

It's adorable.

He's a Boston terrier, so he has a smashed face and he snores. Even when he's awake, he just snores. So was there anything that you read or anybody's story on Reddit that made it into the book?

No, but I did get obsessed with this guy on TikTok who said that he was from, like, seven years in the future and there's been a complete apocalypse, and he's walking around. I think he was in, like, Barcelona, and he was walking around Barcelona, and he was showing footage that it was completely empty. And I think actually it was from lockdown, but he was, like, really credible. And he would, like, people would say, go to, you know, the Sagrada Familia or whatever and show us. And he would do that. And he'd be like, look, there's no cars on the road. Like, I'm telling you, there's been an apocalypse, and I'm a time traveler. And it was just so interesting.

Really fascinating. Okay, so how much of the story did you know before you started writing?

I did know all of it, but I do think about my books for a long time. And I had this idea, like, in the November, as I said, and I don't start a book until the summer, so I was writing its predecessor. So I had, like, seven or eight months to kind of really think about it. And I thought for so long about the Undercover Police storyline, and I thought, like, how can it not feel like an add on? And then I suddenly thought, like, why am I telling it backwards if not to, like, use that? And the whole reason it's told backwards is so you can go back two decades. So I had planned that out. The only thing that emerged kind of organically was how easy it was to make the reader believe that Ryan was Kelly's brother, which he was, of course, but it just felt like the easiest twist. And I was like, he's telling the truth. It's just that they've switched. That emerged in the writing, and as I wrote it. I thought, this feels like the easiest kind of sleight of hand. Yeah.

So I mentioned earlier that I really loved how you wrote Jen's father into the story. Was there anything personal about that, that. That came out while you were putting that in?

Yeah. I'm very close to my dad, and it kind of broke my heart when I did think the plot makes sense. Like, for ages, it was just that Kelly was an undercover cop, and he'd never told Jen. And then I was talking to my own dad about it because he does help me with my blogs, and he said he would have told her unless he was investigating her. And we both turned to each other, and I went, I think it could be about her dad. And it was kind of a weird, like, presient kind of discussion. But, yeah, he's very close to my dad in the character. And, you know, there's often. My dad gets offended often, because there's very often a dead dad in my books. And he's like, why is he killing the dad off? Why is the dad always ba. That's funny.

Yeah. I definitely didn't see that twist coming, and. But you could feel. I think that's what I was trying to say, that what I loved about this story was that even though there was this mystery that she was unpacking you. It was the. The thing that I really loved was the element of her life and her, like, going back and, like, getting to sit with her dad again before he passed and knowing that, like, she didn't want to mess up the moment and she didn't want to say anything, and she.

She couldn't.

Like, I remember the scene where she was like, I need to go, because I didn't stay that night. But she changes her. She's like, I don't care. And you could just feel it. You could.

Like.

It was very emotional, and I just thought it was so beautifully written that I wanted her to stay with her dad. I wanted her to be with him. And so I was so into that part of the story that I didn't see him, like, you know, deceiving her and holding back information from her. And I just thought that was really well done. Okay, does anybody in the room. I've never done this before. Anybody in the room have a question? Who do we say? I can't remember. Okay. Dax is the one. This is Dax. Well, I just think you're a brilliant.

Writer, and so all the twists and turns. You mentioned before that you said that the brother twist was easy, and I'm like, Easy to write, but it feels like, how is that so easy for you? But were there any.

Like, when did you.

How did you choose when to reveal certain things? And did you have to go back.

And omit anything or change anything because.

You accidentally gave something away too soon because the finished product, you revealed everything. I mean, my jaw dropped in the airport a few times. Probably thought I was crazy.

But.

If you could talk about your process of how you wrote it and how you were able to conceal those things. Yeah, I mean, I do do multiple drafts, like, probably seven drafts by myself before I deliver to my publishers. So I kind of. I deliver, like, a lot of authors deliver, like, a first draft, but I. Okay, so be with me.

So you write a first draft.

Yeah.

And then what? You read it? You, like, you front to, like, all. Whatever. How many pages? 300 pages you've written, but you don't. Do you show it to anybody?

No. Okay. What I actually do, which you'll be horrified to know, is I write my first draft and then I delete the document. That is actually what I do.

You delete the whole thing?

Yeah, I do delete that. And I. Every year I think I won't, but every book, I have done it nine times. I mean, I don't like that.

So then you're like. Then you're like, okay, if I can write it again, it's good.

So what happens is I write a synopsis, and I feel like, yes, this makes sense. And then in the writing, I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. Like, why would they do this? Like, in the very first draft, Todd died every day, and Jen went back and back, and she was trying to stop. So it wasn't even that he was the killer for ages, and then it was that he was in a gang. That was the second draft. And something happens where sometime during the first draft, I write a sentence and I feel like, oh, this is what the novel is about. And in that first draft, it was every night, she actually relived the crime. And I took that out because it was too complicated to, like, revisit the day zero. But suddenly Kelly came out of the house on one of the reiterations, and he shot Joseph. And I was like, oh, my God, Kelly's involved. And that is a moment when I thought, okay, this is going to be about something different to what I thought. So I started like, a third draft. And then the third draft is pretty approximately how it is. And then I do, like, a fourth and fifth draft for character and prose, but nobody Else works this way. And I really don't want you to think it's a good idea. This is just my crappy process.

Don't worry, I'm not writing a book. I just want to read you, so. I'm sorry, I have to go back. You write an entire first draft.

I know.

Do you ever go like, oh, this paragraph, go. I could never write this paragraph again. Let me save this.

Not really. And I think if it's worth that much, you remember it. But largely because the plot isn't working. The writing is trash. Like, I just. My agent said to me recently, gilly, like, how many words do you think you write for every hundred thousand you publish? And I said, I think it's a million. Like, I'm a prolific rewriter, which is not. I wish I wasn't this way.

And so when you say delete, you mean, like, never ever? Nobody can find it again? It's not like you printed it off and you hid it somewhere.

No, I mean, I don't delete it. Like, it probably is on my email somewhere, but I have never, ever opened it again. And once I know what the book's about, I then just write it. And it takes like eight weeks, but I think you'd have to do one or two trash baths to get to that point. This is when I confess this. I often don't confess this in interviews because people can't get past it. But I'm telling you guys, I feel like this is a safe space.

We won't tell anyone, but, you know.

Like, this is being broadcast.

It's one of my favorite things about talking to authors is unpacking. Like, that one strange thing that they do. I forget that is mine was. Who was it? Somebody will remember that she listened to the same song. No, no, there's an author we're gonna remember. She played one song every time she sat down to write the book. Huh? Oh, yeah. Remarkably bright creatures. She said. She. No, I don't think it was that one. It wasn't that one.

It was after.

No, it was the last thing he told me. Laura Davy. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Whoever it was, she would play one song every time she sat down to write the book on repeat. And she said it was just like. It just tells my brain that it's time to work on this story. Stephanie says it was. And she said, but she gets a new song every book.

Wow.

So, like. So it wasn't her because she's only read one book. She said every time she writes a new book, she Somehow, like, she gets a song, and she doesn't know how the song comes to be, but it just, like. Just sort of, like, rises to the surface, and that's the song. So, like, it's so fascinating to me because there is. Obviously, there's no right way to do it, but I do think, oh, yeah, somebody else wrote their book on a treadmill. That was Ann Padgett. She wrote Tom Lake Walking on the Treadmill. And so it's like. I don't know. I just find it so fascinating. But I think what's really admirable to me about you throwing away an entire draft is just the trusting yourself that you're gonna be able to, like, make it better, because I would imagine that you would be like, well, what if it. What if I. What if the first draft was better? And what if there's something I forgot about?

It's weirdly, like, when I'm at that point, it's weirdly freeing. It's like, you know, I can't remember where this comes from, but it's some moment in history. Somebody decided to do a journey, and they reached the destination, and they burnt their boat so they could never go back. It's some parable, and it feels like that to me. It's like, you know, when you're writing a book that isn't working, it's very liberating to suddenly have the moment of like, oh, this is actually what it's about. It's about undercover cops say, and just get rid of all the stuff that isn't working. You burn your boat.

Wow. Okay, So I. I can't let you go until I have told you what my very favorite smaller thing was thread in the book. But I absolutely loved how many times when. When Jen was traveling backwards, she would make a comment about her body and how she was like, you know, I thought I was so fat there. And she's like, I had no idea. You know, I looked so good. And. And when she was looking at herself in reverse, she, like, so the whole story to me, I mean, I cared about the murder and the mystery and, like, all of that, but I loved seeing who she became after she went backwards and was able to, like, see herself, you know, whether it was her looks or her journey as a mother or journey as a daughter or journey as a wife. And how, like, to me, that. That was like. I don't know if you had anybody say this, but to me, that. That was what made me love the book was like, I was with her, and I was thinking, like, it kind of challenged me to sort of like go back and when you. Because you don't have to time travel to go back and see yourself.

Yeah.

And I don't know. So did you do that on purpose? Did it just happen or what made you put that part in?

Yeah, I've never been asked that and I've never heard that somebody like that part. And I really liked that part too because I just think, like you said, wasted on the young and all of that. And I think the way that it came about was like, I think it's relatively easy to write a thriller where, you know, the heroine is scared and that's all her character is and, you know, she's got a mystery to solve. Whereas what really gets me going with fiction is where it can be a love story as well and it can be humorous and it's like portraying a full life even though it's in kind of a thriller's clothing. And as Jen was going back and I had these like timelines, like in my kitchen in lockdown, like I had one called what Happened, which was like 2003 to the present day. And then I had Jen's timeline, which was the present day to 2003. And every morning I would just take a postcard from each one and be like, this is what I'm doing today. And what really made that moment for me was Jen just, she came to life in, in the past and in those moments because it is impossible to write about revisiting your 22 year old self. I think you'd look in the mirror, wouldn't you? And you think about the technology. Like, she doesn't know what date it is. And she's like, how do we know what the date is without even checking a phone? Like, and it's stu like that that I really enjoyed. And it was hard not to kind of go ott on it and kind of make the whole book about that. Like, I had to stay on course with the mystery, but it was those small moments for me that were kind of irresistible to me.

That's what makes it a book that sells a million copies because we can read books about time travel and we can read mysteries and thrillers, but the way that you like, made us feel this character and made me feel myself in this character that I really didn't have that much in common with. It was just, it was beautiful. I want to read a comment somebody just said. Renee said, all the time I've spent hating my thighs could have been spent doing something so much more productive. And like, you said that without saying it. You know what I mean? Like, you can. And that's what I love about fiction, is that, like, I can yet. See, I could go on Instagram and I could preach to people about, like, hey, love your body, and. And, you know, don't. Don't beat yourself up for decisions that you made in the past or decisions with your kids that should.

I.

Was I there enough and did I do too much for my career? And, like, all of these things. Like, you can preach to people, but then you could just write a story that kind of, like, reaches inside and makes you think while you're reading a mystery. It's like. It's, like, sneaky. It was so. It was so sneaky. And so well done. Thank you.

I mean, I had this moment when I was being edited, and the copy editor actually struck through a scene, and she said, this doesn't move the plot on. And I was feeling kind of like Bolshy that day, and I was like, no, it does. Like, actually, this is, like, a fundamental moment of the book, and it is. The end of that scene is the most highlighted passage in any novel I've ever published. And it's the moment where she goes back And Todd is 3, and she says, it wasn't my fault. And that's not what the book is about, but it kind of is what the book is about for me. And the line. He turns and looks at her, his mother, like, that is what the whole book is about for me. Because it's like, I did okay. Like, you know, it's not my fault. So it's kind of a lesson in. Although that's secondary, it's absolutely the most important thing that most readers read in that book.

Wow, that's amazing. Thank you for being on with us. I have a few, like, little extra questions that maybe you could tell us. Are we gonna. My son wants to know, will this be a movie?

I'm gonna have to plead the fifth on that, but you can read into that what that might mean.

Okay, that's a yes. And what are you working on right now?

I'm working on the most fun book. It doesn't have a title yet, and I'm on the final edit, so it really ought to have a title. Maybe you can title it. That would be. If I tell you what it's about, can you come up with a title? That would be very helpful.

Titles. I'm not your title girl, but tell me really quick, how did you title this? When did you get the title?

Oh, we brainstormed forever for that title. It was called Deja Vu for years on my Word Document. And eventually we thought, not everybody knows that phrase. And, yeah, we took a long time to come up with the title for that one. You'd think it would be quite easy to conceptualize going back in time, but it just. It wasn't at all.

Well. I think the title is amazing, and I think it, like, it leapt off the page for me and also was one of the reasons why I wanted to read it that. And Christy told me that it was good. And I will tell you, although I would be no help with you on a title, I will tell you that. And I wish I could remember who it was, but one of the other authors that we talked to, she had a really hard time with one of her titles. And she said she always just combs back through the book and tries to find, like, a phrase that sort of leaps off at her. And I do love when the. When the book reveals the title, too. I just finished a book last night called the People We Keep. Have Vinnie read that? Okay, I forgot. I forgot when I was. The books that I read, I literally just finished it last night, and I didn't get the title. I didn't even care about the title. I read the book because my sister was like, this book's great. You're gonna love it. So I didn't even look. I didn't even know. If you had asked me halfway through the book, what's the title? I probably would have to look it up. But then at the very end, I was like, oh, I get it. I get it. And it's really a sweet story.

That is interesting. Yeah. I mean, this one is about a woman who is at work. She's a literary agent, and there's a breaking news alert that there's a hostage situation developing down the road from her office. A man has taken three hostages. And she watches it, and it's being live streamed. So she watches the three hostages on the chair and a gunman and the police come into her work foyer and say, your husband's caught up in this situation. And she's like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And then they say, he's the one that's taken the hostages. So it's like, why would he do that? He's just left as normal for work. So it's kind of a. It's really a very public act, but really it's about this intimate marriage. And she's watching the footage and she's thinking, is there A message in here for me. That's really what it's about.

That sounds amazing.

It's really fun.

We're all gonna read it. Last question. Do you have any books that you love that you would recommend? Like, is there your top? Like, oh, this book made me want to be a writer, or I've read everything written by this person or anything like that.

Yeah. I recently read a book which came out just last week called Night Watching. I don't know if this is on your radar. I. It is the best thriller I've ever read. Right.

What's it called again?

It's called Night Watching by Tracy Sierra. And it's about a. A woman who. She's alone at home, but with her two young children, and she hears a footstep on the stairs, and she sees that this intruder has a gun, and she takes her to read it. No, I know. I. I think it isn't for everyone, but it was definitely for me. So she takes her two young children, and she hides in this secret behind her fireplace room, and the entire book is set in that room, and it is just. It's amazing. So I really do recommend Night Watching.

I'm gonna read it. And if we want Tracy for book club, will you help me get her?

Yeah, I will. I have messaged her so I can get her. She'll be very. She'll be very happy to come, I think.

Do you mostly read thrillers? Is that your favorite genre?

I don't always. I do. I sort of have my roots in women's fiction, as you probably can tell from my writing. So I read a lot of, like, Marianne Keys and authors like that, so I kind of do both, like, love stories and thrillers is kind of my background.

And I can feel it coming together in your writing. That's amazing.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for having me. Yeah. And we really enjoyed our conversation with you today, so thank you again.