The Untapped Gold Mine of Glamping Resorts

Welcome ladies to the Real Estate Investor Show, providing inspiration, strategies, and insight to empower women investors to live balanced and financially free lives.

Now, here are your co-hosts, Liz and Andresa Guidelli. So in today's episode, ladies, we have Karen Shenali. We talk all things today about glamping resorts. What they are, how you make money, her numbers. And it just, we got into so many specifics and her thinking behind them. It was a phenomenal conversation that we had with her that expanded this particular niche, right, Andresa?

Yeah. And she started at 43 years old. That's how she left her corporate job to start Airbnbs and now transitioning to glamping. And we are her avatar. We don't do nothing. So if you're like us, You don't want to do anything, but you also looking to different types of businesses that you can invest on. This episode is for you.

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Welcome back, ladies.

This is Liz and this is Andresa.

Welcome back to The Real Estate Investor Show. We're so excited to have you, Karen, on our show today. Thanks for making time to spend with us and the women and men who are on this journey with us. So thanks for being here today.

I am so excited to be here and talk to you guys. I am a huge fan of your show.

Awesome. Awesome. We're, we're really excited to have you on for lots of different reasons. Your story and your perseverance and just the niche that you're in now. So selfishly, Andresa and I are pumped to talk about glamping resorts. So something I wanna get to, and then from an investing perspective. So we'll get into all of that in a moment. We just thank you all for being back and being on this journey with us. We always like to say we're on this journey, right? Andresa, there's no beginning and, and middle and end. Right, and investing and doing in a way that works on your own terms is a journey, and we're constantly evolving. So we like to get connected to all of you, and then we like to jump into the wonderful woman that we're interviewing. So Andresa, what is happening and coming up for you this week, my friend?

Well, yesterday, as you know, Liz, I closed on my HELOC and my primary house. Congrats! Thanks.

That's, yeah, very exciting.

Since I, I know myself as a human being, um, people call me very independent. So I mastered that, independency, on trying to figure out things by myself. And throughout my entire life, if I look back, I was pretty much a quote unquote a solo player, right? But throughout the years of The Real Thing Faster, we encourage women to do what? To leverage their experience, resources. And of course, I also had to unlearn a lot of things. And one thing that I realized yesterday is that once you, at the beginning is hard, no, no joke about it, right? Asking for help and just flexing that muscle. But I'm going to tell you something that I realized yesterday. When you are just used to ask for help and people ask you for help, you just do it. You just do it naturally. So it's funny that during the HELOC yesterday, my lender called me and said, well, we have another option. I was like, oh, great, right? I'm on my way there. And different options that we could play around. Well, I'm no longer looking to figure out things by myself. What did I do? Tap into my resources. Call Liz and Matt and then Holly and then Ana Kelly, got Ana Kelly on the phone. And then we ask more questions and asking questions and questions to the lender. And the lender was like, he's so sweet and he's great. And he's like, you guys, I don't think I ever had this experience before that you guys are asking so many great questions and asking to review the documentation. Andresa, you asked to review the appraisal report. I was like, Of course. I mean, why people wouldn't do this? And why can we really play the options, play the numbers, and get the best solution to that? So the reason why I say to that, I didn't realize, I just realized that after, but I also tap into my resources. I am not that egocentric person anymore that was like, oh, let me just do it by myself and not. You know, it would be foolish of me. I have people that can look out for me. So I encourage all of you that are listening to really flex that muscle. Asking for help starts with little items, and then you go. And I said this before, and I'll say it again, you also give people the permission for them to ask you for help. So keep that in mind, and thank you all for the support.

I'm so excited for you, right? Because I, you know, HELOCs are such a powerful, powerful vehicle for us as investors. And excited for you.

And I beat my record. Just saying.

You beat— you mean you got more than you wanted to?

No, that I knew for sure.

Oh, that's—

excuse me. Excuse me.

What do you say?

I mean, the past, the max that I could get was like $114,000, and this time was $125,000. So here we go. I beat my own record.

Oh, you're so cute.

And I'm going to share with you guys how I did it. Okay.

So we'll do that as a mini sub. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Break that down. Awesome. Good stuff. So Karen, thanks again so much for being on our show. We always like to kind of kick things off is what inspired you? Because that's an important word, not just how did you get started? Because that's boring and Andresa Guidelli, I don't wanna bore anyone that's listening to our show, but what inspired you to begin investing in real estate?

I wanted to be independent. I had a W-2 job for many, many years, a long commute working for a defense contractor. And I really wanted to be my own boss. It was a long journey from the day I decided I was going to do my own thing to the day I got free. It was a long process. And I was probably like about 42 or 43 when I was just like, just so tired of like having all these really great creative ideas and then Of course, if you're in the corporate world, you have to take it to somebody and then they get to pass judgment on it. And then usually like you come in all bubbly and excited to do something. And then by the time it made it through like the second or third level of management, it looked nothing like the idea that you put into the system. The thing that came out the other end, somehow they always managed to transform it into looking like exactly what they had done in the past. So that was really my inspiration. I just had this burning desire. I just knew that I could do better on my own. I really did. And, um, so that was really what inspired me to kind of get the ball rolling many, many years ago.

And at 43, right, many people say they just settled for the life that they have built up to that. And I think that I admire your courage to taking the leap and really changing the course or not changing the course, but choosing the course that you wanted to live your life moving forward. So share with us. What have you done in order to say, listen, here's my W-2 stable, quote unquote stable income, and this is what it's the second option here. What questions did you ask yourself and what did you do in order to feel confident that pivoting was the right thing for you?

The biggest thing for me was financial because obviously you get, you're like, oh my God, like, how am I going to continue to feed myself? Where is this income going to come from? So I really huge, huge fan of BiggerPockets. And that's really kind of what got me on this journey was I started, I had that long commute and I was listening to BiggerPockets podcasts day and night. That, and then I was listening to a bunch of podcasts on short-term rentals. And this was back in like 2014, 2015. So Airbnb was extremely new, but I got this idea that I could use the steady income that I had coming in from my W-2 to kind of slingshot me along the way. On kind of my financial independence journey and listening to BiggerPockets, I knew the best way to do this was through real estate. Like I had money in a 401k and I would sit there and I'd watch that thing go up and down and it used to frustrate the heck out of me. But, you know, I knew that like just from my experience of owning a home, the value of my home stayed relatively stable. Like if a CEO wakes up and has some dalliance with their intern, the stock's gonna go down the next day. People are gonna find out about it and you have no control over that. Yeah. But the condo that I bought in Mount Snow, I could wake up the next day and I mean, we can have a recession, all these different things can go on, but the value of it's not just going to, you're not going to lose 50, 60% of it overnight. And so I knew real estate was the way to do it. And so what I did was I had some money in my 401k and I, in that point in time too, I was still listening to Dave Ramsey and Dave Ramsey would tell you, you never touch your 401k. You don't leverage, like, And in some ways, like, I love Dave and he really helped me like get in a better financial position in terms of like budgeting and all of that and like spending sensibly. But the advice he gave on like not leveraging and all of that, I think in the beginning it really held me back. So it was tough in the beginning to have the courage to say, okay, I'm going to take a loan out on my 401k and I'm going to take this and I'm going to go use it to put the down payment on a convenience store that we saw. It was a phenomenal deal. And that was really where we got our start. I bought a convenience store and I drove by it every day on my way to work. And I could tell, I watched it close down and we knew the gal that was running it and she was a good family friend. And so I kind of had the inside track on what was going on. And it was, it had gone to auction for like $400,000 and no one bought it. And I had a friend who was a corporate attorney at the company I worked for. And so I went to him and I said, hey, I said, talk about leveraging your network, right? I had no idea what I was doing. And he gave me some free legal advice and he is like, hey, like here, you put a letter of intent together. Did you wanna buy it? So I threw him a letter of intent. $150,000 is what I offered him. So this was a full convenience store. It had gas pumps. They were all functional. It was like a deal. And they kind of laughed in my face. And I was like, fine, you know, I don't care. I just was like in the mindset, I'm just gonna keep making offers on things till I get it. And actually they came back like 2 weeks later and took the offer.

There we go.

So I got a convenience store for $150 grand. I pulled another $40,000 out of my 401k and used— it was a loan that I got, so I didn't even have any tax consequences. And I leveraged that 401k to make some renovations on the convenience store and get it up and running. So that was really pivotal and it was really important to kind of that shift in mindset. I talk a lot about mindset in my journey here. I had to get over that Dave Ramsey thinking of leverage is horrible. Touching that 401k is horrible. If used correctly, your 401(k) can be an incredible asset to getting you out of your W-2 job. You know, you could take a loan, you could buy multifamily. There's all different kinds of things you can do with that 401(k) and use it smartly.

So, so many people's first deals is like a duplex, a single-family home. Yours is a convenience store. Like, that's pretty cool. Like, that's probably—

I've not heard that before.

So I love that. Did you own— so you own the building? Just curious, just as dissect that a little bit. Did you, you own the building and then did you also buy the business or is the business separate or how did that all work? 'Cause I think that's a, you know, it's something that we are navigating. We're owning the real estate, we're owning the business, especially as women wanna diversify in maybe athletic classes. So just curious to, to understand that a little bit.

The business had shut down. It was closed for about, I would say maybe 2 months when I picked it up. So it wasn't that long. So all the accounts with the vendors were still like the vendors. It was easy to get a lot of that started up. Plus I had, so that person I told you I knew on the inside, she was the manager of the store. I just hired her back. I hired all the employees back. And so she was kind of the face of the business. The previous owner was very much an absentee owner. So she pretty much ran everything. So this really worked to my advantage because I hired her and she was a godsend. Like if it wasn't for her, we never would've made it.

She operated it for you?

She operated it for me. So she did like the day-to-day and then I did all of the backend. So I taught myself, I mean, I had advanced degrees and stuff. I had MBA and all of that, but they don't teach you how to actually do accounting entries.

So hilarious that, because I have an MBA as well. And when I started investing and running, you know, P&L, I don't remember learning P&Ls and deeper, you know, how to run a business. They teach you how to be an employee and how to, you know, come on. That does not make any sense, for God's sake.

No, I totally agree with you. It's kind of funny. I've got 3 kids and my kids are all extremely smart. And based on my journey now, like I tell them, I'm like, all of the stuff I have learned to make money and become wealthy, I didn't learn any of this stuff in school. I learned it all from listening to podcasts, from reading books. And I tell them now, I'm like, this is gonna sound so blasphemous. I tell 'em, don't bother with a college education unless you really want it. Like if you feel like it's a confidence booster for you, then absolutely go spend the money, get that college education.

Or if you wanna be a doctor, then go for it.

Absolutely.

Or a lawyer or—

Yeah.

But to really become wealthy through real estate, my honest opinion is you don't need a college degree to do that. You can do it. By listening to podcasts, reading books, which is exactly how I've done it. Networking, like networking, you talk about the resources and the network, like that has been honestly in the last 3 years, my wealth has skyrocketed because I networked and I finally just stopped being like, I have to do all this myself and started reaching out and networking with people. And it's just been an amazing journey.

Liz and I always talked about it because we, we created the Real Estate Investor Community 4 years ago. And now we have over 12,000 people on our Facebook group and meetups across the country and in Canada. And we were saying like our children, the community's children, how cool it would be if they start connecting with each other and learning about money in a different way and growing together because we're going to have a problem when our kids Right? All the investor kids go to school and they start learning about money, what they're hearing that they should or shouldn't do. They're going to stand up and start talking about things that many times, I'm sorry, but the teacher or the professor never heard before. So we need to have a community to back them up to say, no, I'm not crazy just thinking that. This is what it is. And let me show you guys. So Liz and I are thinking about it, but let's Let's get to the juicy part here. You start doing glamping, and I think that is relatively new compared to the other strategies that we, we have seen it. So for the folks that are listening right now, right? Break it down to us. What exactly that is and how do you make money with it?

Oh gosh. So glamping is glamorous camping. So you're basically taking those two words and marrying them together. It is a tent.

Hold on, Karen. Is that for like people like Liz that hates camping, but like—

I don't like camping.

Yeah.

I just don't like it and I'm not even high maintenance and I just don't like having to bring my own food.

No. So listen, got to hear me out here.

All right. I'm listening. That's why we wanted to have you on the show selfishly.

Right. So glamping is about an experience. So let me just backtrack one second. I got into glamping because I was in short-term rentals. I have sizable short-term rental portfolio and there's a lot of parallels. You know, it's an overnight stay, right? But in my opinion, the thing that makes it very different from like just your standard, like Airbnb, VRBO experience is the experience you offer to the glamper. People want to glamp because they're looking for that family connection. They're looking for a higher level of amenity than you would expect to find, like if you drug your own tent into the outback. So when you're glamping, you're going, it's like Airbnb, but like several levels above it. So, I mean, we're just setting it up now. We're getting all our amenities stacked in order and stuff. And I'll tell you some of the things we're doing. Like when you show up, my idea is camping done for you. So you show up and—

That's a good tagline, Karen. If you don't have a tagline, use that.

That's my tagline. That's my tagline. Camping done for you.

I'm your customer. So I'll tell you—

I am your customer. I don't want to do anything.

We're both your customers. So whatever you say, we're going to tell you, yeah, your name during this podcast. So we'll help you. Good.

I need the help. So the idea is you'll show up, you will have to bring your clothes, right? But you would have to do that no matter where you went. Of course. But when you get there, if you wanna have the groceries brought in for you, we have a service that will do it. That's optional. You don't have to. So there's a link in your check-in message. You can click it and you set it up with the grocery service that's local and they will come and they will stock your refrigerator for you. In terms of an amenities load, we're gonna have robes. All your linens are gonna be provided. There's gonna be a s'mores kit that's complimentary when you get there. There's a starter set of charcoal. Every campsite gets a, a bundle of firewood. And if you decide that you wanna buy more, you can. The fire pit is centrally located. Again, the reason why we're doing that is we're trying to promote that experience, that connection between campers, right? Because so much about society now, especially since COVID is, oh my God, like you can't talk to people, you can't touch 'em. And what I'm seeing is a lot of people really wanna come together again. And so we're gonna have like a central fire pit. So there'll be fires at night. On the weekends, we're gonna do like a storytelling thing. So that's like completely like a step above. There are no televisions in these, but there's electricity. The bathrooms are absolutely stunning. They're gorgeous. Like the shower. Yeah.

I have problems with bathrooms.

You will love this bathroom.

Oof.

You get your own bathroom. The shower is beautiful. It's got body sprays on it. It's got a rain bath shower head and then a hand spray. It's got like a regular size sink, a really beautiful toilet. The kitchen, it's got a 4-burner stove. They have, it's an efficiency refrigerator. And then they got microwaves in them. It's got all electricity. I'm going to have cell phone chargers in there because I mean, that's just the reality, but we are not going to have TVs. We will make TVs available. So we'll have like an online store. So if you decide like you have to have that TV for the weekend, you can tell us in advance of your reservation, you just go onto the store, you reserve it and we'll have it set up for you when you arrive. They're also pet friendly. People who like to great outdoors like to bring their pets. I think what a great environment, you know, and to have your pet in. We'll have areas where you can walk your dog. We have also an amenities load for the dogs that, you know, we have like dog beds and dog cages and leashes and treats. And so we're really, again, it's like camping done for you. I want it so that you just show up with your suitcase and if we're not already providing it as part of the amenities load, we're trying to make it available on the store. And we'll have an employee, like you can go on, you can say, I forgot my bug dope. Can you bring me a can of bug dope? And we'll happy to run a Dacia. So we're really trying to think of everything that you could possibly want. There's a hot tub on site. So you can go and you can take a dip in the hot tub and we've got robes in there. So you don't have to like drag all these clothes down there. You can just pop your robe on and walk down and hop in the hot tub. And the views are amazing. So this is down in Tennessee in Wears Valley. So we've been putting these tents up for like the last 3 months and on their early mornings. And it is, it's unbelievable. Like you sit there and you look out at the mountains and the clouds rising from between the mountains and the sun. And it's, it's stunning.

So let's break it down from the business perspective, right? Do you own the land and you are building cabins on it or what type of structure are you building? So how many are they?

So we bought the land as part of a deal. We got private financing on it and there was a large cabin already on the land that we turned into a coffee shop. And then behind it, there was this whole acre that we needed to do something because the mortgage, the coffee shop, the building was extremely expensive because of the location. And I was like, there's no way a coffee shop is going to pay the mortgage on this thing long-term. I got to do something different. So we started looking at these glamping tents, the economics behind them. So right now a glamping tent, it's like a two-bedroom. So it's not really a cabin. It is a tent. It has canvas walls, but it's canvas stretched over a very rigid structure. They can withstand 80-mile-an-hour winds. Wow. They have these things installed like up in Acadia, Maine. There's a glamping village up there, so they can take snow load. That's not so much of a concern here in Tennessee. But they really are like, they're like little, little houses. They're so awesome inside. And then so for economics, it's about $50 grand right now. If you go buy one of these things and that comes with everything now. So it's all of your— the best tent. One unit, if you will, one, one tent structure, one structure that it comes with all your furniture.

So with that, square feet we talking, it's about 360 square feet.

Okay.

Fits how many people?

5.

5 people.

Wow.

Family. So there's a quote unquote master bedroom, if you will, and that's got a queen bed in it. And then there's a bunk room that has 3 bunks in it. And then there's a full-size bath in between the 2 rooms. You get all your furniture with it. So all the furniture is rustic looking. It's wood. Everything comes disassembled and you have to put it together.

So is that a company that does—

Yes.

Just provide this, like the storage and the modular? Okay.

Yeah. You buy it from a company. They're overseas. They're in the Netherlands. A lot of the price that you're paying is the shipping costs to get it into the States. But for us, So you can pay, there are distributors throughout the United States you can buy these through. And a lot of them, you can either set it up yourself or they'll charge you a fee to set it up. Originally, we were gonna go with the distributor and have them set it up. We decided that was really not the best avenue for us. My husband's a general contractor and we just were like, and my daughter, she's amazing. So my daughter took over as the project manager and my husband was a general contractor and we kind of made magic happen and we put these things up ourselves.

How long, how long does it usually take to pull one up?

The actual installation of the tent itself, like if you did the work from start to finish and you didn't have to deal with all the inspections, which I'll talk about in a minute from the county, you can probably put one together in about 4 or 5 days. The thing that is a challenge, and if people are trying to do this in their local markets, is these things are kind of funky. It's not a building, right? But it's not really like a pup tent either that you go and you buy at Walmart and throw up in your front yard. So the regulatory authorities in some, some regions are having a really hard time with these. So like here in Tennessee, like everyone is trying to do this and the rules are different from county to county. And so for us, that's been our big challenge is trying to get the local authorities comfortable with what they're doing because they're new. You know, it's really not a cabin, which is what they're used to seeing around here. It's a soft-sided structure, but it's got a lot of the amenities that the cabin would have. It's got a bathroom, it's got a kitchen. So like here, what they're saying is every one of these things is equivalent to like a one-bedroom cabin. So the rules that are getting levied on us in terms of like the code books and the regulations are like I was building a cabin. So essentially what I'm doing right now is I'm building 3 cabins. I mean, that's the rule book that I'm following. And sometimes it's kind of ridiculous. Like the decks are 21 inches off the ground, but the set of rules that they're making us follow for these decks is like something you would apply to a cabin that that had a deck that was 30 or 40 feet off the ground to the first floor. So that's been very challenging. And because the local authorities like don't really know what to do, they don't give us answers very quickly. So we've had to be really persistent, really use like our powers of negotiation and persuasion. Like we are in there probably sometimes we were in there 3 or 4 times a week earlier in the process, trying to get things established. Septics is another thing that's a big concern.

That was going to be my next. Question to you. What structures like septics and then HVAC or heating, cooling, and any other general electricity and other items that are big items that it comes with it too? Or I'm not sure if the— that's gonna make sense since it's coming from overseas.

No. So what you get from overseas is basically just the tent and all of the stuff inside of it. Once you get it here in the States, you've got to invest additional money to get the infrastructure set up. What I'm finding is that the infrastructure is about $50,000 a tent, and that's right now. And this is in where I'm located in Sevier County. So the infrastructure consists of a septic system because I'm not on city water. If you're on city water, it's going to be less because all you have to do is pretty much get a— pay a hookup fee. We've got electrical in them, and then we've got power. And so all of that together is averaging about $50,000 a tent.

And that's also for cooling and heating.

Yeah. So we have mini splits in ours.

Mini splits. Okay, cool.

Yep. Yep. And those are nice because they're scalable. So for right now they have one mini split in the main room and we're going to kind of see how that goes. And if it's not enough, we'll just add, you know, add them into the bedrooms as we need to, but the infrastructure is we were not provided the correct data on what we, what the infrastructure was going to be. And then the other piece of that is the excavation. So if you're putting in like a septic system, once it's done, you want to make sure you have your site leveled and graded because at the end of the day, I mean, that's what's going to show up in your photos for your listing and you want it to look really warm and welcoming and things like that. So yeah, it's about an average to about $50,000 with all of those things thrown in. You're going to probably ask me returns.

Well, you know, that was what, where I was going, but more importantly, like, as you're navigating this new strategy, like, I guess my mind goes, you know, you said cost, I don't know. What, what did the land cost outta curiosity?

Well, it was the land came with the coffee shop, so it was $1.1 to get the land and the coffee shop.

You know, you're running your numbers on obviously all these acquisition, you know, costs, right? And then obviously you're gonna project what your returns could be, or at least when it's almost like you've created something that's like, a mix between Airbnb and like a boutique hotel that's outside. That's what it sounds like. And, and in itself, you're creating a business. Same back to your roots of a convenience store. You bought a building that had a business in it. That's what you're doing now. You're, you're not just, you're not just passively investing in a, in land here. You're, you're creating a whole business for yourself as well, which I think is important for people to understand. This is not just like, you know, They're not just buying a property, right? It's like going to do new construction. You're doing it in a different way, right? But so you got the 1.1, you got $50K per structure, if you will, and then you have $50K in addition for infrastructure. I'm sure there's other costs and things, but just trying to get some numbers. How many can you put there? And then we'll talk about how you then assessed your return and what the, you know, what, what your revenue streams are and when that money will be made for yourself and all those good things.

So the number of structures we can put at any given property is driven by the septic and the size of the septic that that property can support. So when we first got into this and we started working with the distributor, we were told that we could fit 19 structures on this 1 acre. And I was kind of like, and he said, oh yeah, you know, the septic is no big deal. Like you could put things on your septic field. He was completely wrong. So we invested. So I got my tents for less than what they're costing right now. I bought my tents like last year and when I bought them, they were $37,000 a pop for the big ones. And then, so my development is going to be the ones we're working on right now. I call them big tents. They're 2 bedrooms. And then there's also a whole bunch of smaller tents you can buy that are just essentially, they either have like a queen-size bed in them or 2 doubles. And those are, we call those small tents. And those last year, they were, the small ones were $8,000 and the big ones were $12,000. So our initial investment was 4 big tents. And then we bought a bathhouse to serve as the bathing facilities for all the small tents. And we have 13 small tents that we bought. So we had all this stuff. We had a layout. We found out we can't use all these. So now I wind up with 1 big tent and 13 small tents that I can't— I have nothing to do. They're still in storage. So we're actually already have a phase 2 in the works. So from an economic standpoint though, the payoff for these is about 8 months on the tent, just on the tent itself. If you factor the infrastructure in, you're probably looking at like another 8.

So within that acre that where you installed the septic system, how many were you able to put?

3, 3 big tents is what I got. And then I've got all those extra ones in storage, which are going into a phase 2, which I will buy in about 3 weeks. I'll buy the land for that in about 3 weeks. Yeah. So from a payback standpoint, initially I ran them as just looking at like what you could get for like a 2-bedroom Airbnb in the local area. And those were the initial numbers I used and I still have those numbers. So if you look at those numbers and again, they're very conservative after all my costs. So this is cleaning, this is even hiring a full-time person because you need, you're going to need somebody because this is such a high touch. It's not like a normal Airbnb. You're going to need people there to like deliver things and give them that experience. So even after my labor costs, cost, the annual return after everything is about $47,000. That's not bad for a hundred, let's just say a $100,000 outlay.

Just curious in terms of staff and teams, who do you have now, or what are you projecting that you would need in order to run this business? I'm assuming without you.

Yeah. So that's a very good point you make because I have several businesses and every time I set up a business, I set it up with the idea that I am not required to run the business. Like from day one, that's how I go in. So there's always the idea there's going to be a manager or some person overseeing everything. So for the glampground, it's kind of cool because I already have a pretty sizable Airbnb business. And so my Airbnb business is very process-driven. It's essentially just going to get sucked into the machine of the process in terms of like the back office and things. And for that, I have a VA that supports me, a full-time VA. And then I have two other, one's full-time and one's half-time assistants that support me in my other endeavors. But they all, they help across all the businesses. Like I have one gal that's amazing with web copy and websites and all of that. She does that. For the glampground, there will be one full-time employee that does nothing but like manage the glampground. And then there'll be another employee that'll probably be like half-time. So the full-time employee will be focused on like the grounds and the mowing and all of that. And then the half-time person is more towards like the hospitality and making sure the events are booked, making sure the tents are staged. Properly when people check in. So I'm thinking about 1.5 FTEs just to run the campground. But if you think about it, like right now they're only working with 3 tents, but I'm putting this other phase 2 in. They can certainly like, they'll have plenty of bandwidth to go ahead and support that other piece of it. So as I scale up, my labor cost per tent obviously goes down because I've got them spread across a larger, larger set of resources.

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Curious to hear what your biggest learnings have been. So here you come from, you go from your W-2, you buy your convenience store, which I think is just so cool. And then you transition into building a significant size of an Airbnb portfolio. And then you're now transitioning into, you know, different businesses and starting. And I love your approach. What would you have done differently as you now are embarking on something that's newer for a lot of people, newer even especially from a regulation perspective, right? So you're, you're dealing with challenges that other people are not, right? Or new construction or a lot of the other niches, if you will, are not necessarily dealing with as much as you are with this particular newer niche. So what would you have done differently? What have been your, you know, biggest learnings? What has been your biggest learning? That the woman listening, they want to embark on glamping resorts, if you will, would need to think about and do?

Just specific to the glamping resort, you really got to do your due diligence upfront. So what we did was we trusted this person because they were from the local area and they kind of told me, oh yeah, the rules are no big deal. Like blah, blah, blah. It was all a bunch of crap. None of it was true. So you kind of like trust but verify, right? And this is any municipality that you put these in. Before you spend a dime and buy a single tent, like take the plans and go to your local city offices, your county offices, and sit down and talk to them about what you're doing and just kind of get an appreciation for how comfortable they are with it. That was like our biggest mistake that we made. I mean, in the end of the day, I don't really think it's a mistake because, you know, we're buying a second piece of property and we're expanding and like, we got social on this, right? But that would be my best piece of advice to people is just go and talk to the county. And no one likes to ask, "Mother, may I?" But like, damn, it stinks to spend $300,000 in tents and not be able to put them up. We're still sitting on a whole bunch of them, right? And then we've got to figure out how are we going to deploy these things. That's the best piece of advice I can give. Go ask questions and educate them. Learn everything you can about it. So if you meet resistance, you can kind of figure out like what their pressure points are and kind of, you know, say, hey, like, nope, this is really the way it is. It's really low impact. People love it. Here in Sevier County too, the lodging taxes are fairly significant and sizable. So that's another way maybe to convince the local authorities and say, hey, like this is a massive income stream. This is what I project I'm going to earn off of this. You know, you guys are going to make quite a bit, you know, I'm going to make a lot of money for your tax base.

That's why Philadelphia was not complaining for a long period of time about Airbnbs because they were getting paid for a lot. Right. So talking about the business, right? You have the stream of income about people renting the tents. What are the other possible extra incomes that you are also, I'm sure you're also thinking that they can consume that will also add to your revenue?

Oh gosh. This to me is the most exciting thing about this model. So if, if you think about like when someone comes to stay, you know, there's a base load of amenities that we're going to provide and it's way more than what you would get in a standard Airbnb. But then there's this company that allows you to have like a website dedicated to your Airbnb. And so it's convenience items. I talk like sunscreen, bug spray. We're going to rent like doggy pools, coolers, pup tents. Like we've come up with all these cool things that people will be able to go on and just rent. Right. So if you think about, let's talk about the doggy pool. The doggy pool is like, I don't think they're like $30 on Amazon, right? Even if I charge someone $10 to have it for their entire stay, 3 rents and you've paid for the thing. And now all of a sudden you're starting to like make revenue off it. Bachelor and bachelorette parties. So you buy the decorating kit off of Amazon for, I think my daughter looked at them, they were $20. You offer to decorate it for when they show up for their event. You can charge probably $100, $150 for that. Everything's there when they get there, it's all done. Like, So that is a massive income stream and it's fairly easy to do. And I'm already paying an employee full-time, like on-site, that's gonna be part of their job. So you can monetize it that way. There's like referral fees that you can get. So if you have, like, I have a lady that does hiking tours locally and working up a deal with her, I'm like, okay, so for every person I send your way, you know, will you kick me like $20 or something like that? That's a very easy thing to do. So the other thing that we're doing is we're kind of cross-monetizing it with my other businesses. So I mentioned earlier, I have a coffee shop there on the same property. So when people check in, part of their amenities basket is a $10 gift card to the coffee shop. They are going to go in. So my average ticket in the coffee shop is $14 an order. So the $10, it's just going to get them in there, right? They're going to buy more. I mean, a coffee at my coffee shop, just like a regular latte is probably like $8 now for a large. So you go in and you're going to spend more. We have pastries in there. There's all kinds of good stuff. You're not in by yourself. If you show up at the tent without a coffee for your spouse, like you're going to be in deep doo-doo. So you need to buy stuff for yourself.

Literally, for sure.

I love that.

That's another way that we've crossed kind of our generating income back to the business. And then the other interesting thing is that, so these tents are sitting on land that's owned by the coffee shop. The tents will be paying rent back to the coffee shop. They're going to pay lot rent every month. Back to the coffee shop. So that'll help the coffee shop because the mortgage, like I said earlier, the size of the mortgage relative to the volume of the business was way out of proportion when we kind of got into this deal. So that'll really help out and kind of balance things quite a bit. So there's a lot of different ways. And these are just things that I've thought of now. I know that there's a lot more stuff down the line that's going to come to me. It just hasn't hit me yet.

I love that. I think, you know, your motto, or if it is your motto or not, but camping done for you, right? So that just literally means that as soon as you said that, I'm like, there's so many revenue streams because literally people don't want to like bring— if I want it done for me, I'm not going to bring a little pool with me, right? I'm just not going to do that. I want literally everything done for me. So the ability to create those revenue streams is just unlimited, which is great. And I think it just goes back to our avatar, right? For those listening, really getting a sense, whatever niche you get involved in and what What uniqueness you're bringing to the table? Are you serving that avatar? So not only are you gonna make a ton of revenue with the kits and everything you just said and all the things you haven't even thought of, more importantly, you're serving your avatar. That's how you're gonna be able to make the revenue you're making. And you know that cuz you're a smart businesswoman. Basis of our interview here today, that's pretty clear. But I really wanna put a pin in that for everyone listening, right? Because if we don't know our avatar, if you're doing a different type of niche in real estate and the people don't want it done for them and you create all these revenue streams, they're not gonna opt in. Right? It's like, so it, it seems obvious, but I don't think people think through that enough and think about what would my customer want? Then what are the revenue streams that would get, meet those needs of my customer? You know, so to speak. And I also wanna just say, I love how all your businesses are, are supporting each other. So it's not like you woke up and you're like, oh, I'm gonna do this. Like it's very connected and aligned. So it's not as much of a, a risk, less of a risk. A lot of the things that Andresa Guidelli and I have been talking about, in some ways that we're gonna be expanding InvestHer and just different things is it's all like connected, right? It's connected on some level. It's always, you're mitigating risk, you're mitigating risk and you wanna have growth quicker. How do you do that? Right? So there's leverage, but it's not just leverage of other people, it's leverage of your own resources and businesses you've created. That's why I love what you're saying is I think the women listening, right, might have some rentals, they might have some different assets and they might just need to think a little creatively, a little uniquely to, to say what can support that. You know, so to speak. I just wanted to mention that cuz I think that— wanted to make sure that was clear. I just love what you're up to. Andresa, do you wanna add anything before we—

No, we're good.

Okay. But I do, I love what you're doing in the sense of you're never too old, you're never too young. It's like we have to kind of stop saying those things as women, as people. And I just love what you've created in the time you've created it. And I love that now you're jumping into a whole new level and you, and in a lot of the writing that you wanna— you're gonna have a proof of concept here and I'm sure you're not gonna stop with this one. Right. Knowing what you've said, I'm sure.

It's, she's already on the way.

You know, so it's just exciting.

It's very exciting. And I, I wake up every day just so excited to get out of bed and just like tear it up and get after it. And I have an amazing team of people, you know, all these people. I really believe like if you put it out in the energy in the, in the universe that you, this is what you need, they come. And I gotta tell you, like when I was in the corporate world, I worked with a lot of really smart people, but none of them were like aligned. You know what I'm saying? The people that, that you attract, absolutely phenomenal. Like I couldn't, if you could see the guy that's going to run the glampground, he is so perfect. You talk about an avatar, think about an avatar of someone who's like a camper outdoorsy kind of person. Like he's so cool. He's got dreadlocks. Like he's perfect person.

Perfect person.

So perfect for the job. He's extremely intelligent. And it just, all these people that have kind of just fallen into my life to make all of this stuff happen. It's absolutely. It all makes me cry. It's so awesome.

I'm excited. We're excited to see how this unfolds. So please, please keep us posted and you have to come stay.

I'd love to come test it out. Tell me, have I done enough to make you like it?

You got it. You tell us when we're there. We're there. Karen, where can the ladies listening learn more about you and follow you along your journey?

So I have a website, but actually realty.co. So that's where you'll find the most about me. It's got a little quick bio on there and that's the easiest place to get in contact with me. There's like a, if you want to chat about Glamping or anything else real estate related here in the Smokies, you just click a book appointment link and you can hook up with me and we'll get on the phone and chat it out.

Awesome. This information you guys can find on our show notes. Now we're going to transition to our fabulous 3 questions. And the first one, Karen, is what's the most transformational book you ever read?

So I alluded earlier that I'm like huge into mindset and all of that. And this happens to be a book that is based off of— it's a BiggerPockets publishing book and I didn't pick it just because you guys were BiggerPockets. Like I really love this book, but it's called Do the Impossible by Jason Drees. And it— so I've been a massive, like into mindset and coaching for a long time, but the book really just kind of puts a bow on it. There were a lot of concepts in there, like the process of life, right? That I, I would hear her and I'm like, what the Christ is that? Right. I read the book and explained it. And it's just kind of like taking all this stuff that I've been learning for years. It's enabled me to make the progress I have made and kind of just puts a bow on it and really like sums it all up. It's truly, it's like do the impossible. It really is. It's amazing. I'm going to listen to it probably again and again and again.

Awesome. Second question is what's the most powerful routine that you do to create a financially free and balanced life?

Meditation, without a doubt. I wake up every morning. I get up pretty early. I feed my kitties, I get my coffee, and then I go and I meditate for anywhere from 30 to 40 minutes a day. And that is minimum 6 days a week, 7 if I can squeeze it in on the, on the other day on the weekend. It has transformed me profoundly in so many different ways. My mental health is amazing. My relationship with my family is amazing. My business achievements are amazing and it's all because I just take that time every day and I self-reflect and I really work on my inner voice and how I talk to myself because it really makes a difference.

Absolutely. Last question, which woman famous or not has inspired you the most?

My grandmother, who's not famous, obviously she's famous to me, but you know, my childhood was You know, I had divorced parents, all of that. So there was a lot of things that came up in my life because of that. And, um, she kind of bridged the gap. So she really gave, tried to give me like a normal childhood at a time when I really wasn't going to have one. And then as I got older, I really appreciated her even more because she was kind of ahead of her time. As I look back, her views and stuff on life and, you know, she started out cleaning houses. She was an entrepreneur herself in a time when it wasn't cool to be a female entrepreneur. Like back in her day, like you lived with the man and the man made all the money and, you know, she was widowed and she was, she had 4 kids and she was out cleaning houses. And I just take an awful lot of inspiration. And the other thing that I love about her is I love family and that sounds so cliché, but I love creating experiences for my family and environments and holiday events. And those things to me, like. Those are what you're going to remember. And when I think about her, that's what I remember. And, and I've learned that from her is to, I want to be just like her. Like, I want to be like the focal point where, you know, I am, I'm the reason why everybody gets together and hangs out because I created an event or brought everyone together so we could take some really cool trip or something like that. She did an awful lot of that. She did it with food. She would have these amazing meals. She cooked Italian food, all homemade. It was unbelievable. So My grandma, for sure.

Awesome. And now look at you with what you're doing in your business, right? So come full circle, your, your passion to create that, not just for your own family, but for other families. That's pretty neat, right?

Yeah, neat. Absolutely.

Karen, thank you so much for being on our show. Excited to have you on today and, you know, good luck with everything. I don't think you need luck cuz, you know, luck is what the, when our dreams— Reparation.

Reparation means opportunity.

Thank you. Thank you, Andresa Guidelli. I don't think you need luck, but excited to see you along your journey and keep us posted. So thanks again for being on our show and sharing your wisdom with the women.

Thanks a million for the opportunity. I've really enjoyed it.

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