Inside the Golden Era of New York News

FMC Fast Chat takes you inside the news so you can be in the know in 30 minutes.

Hosted by Fair Media Council CEO and Executive Director Jaci Clement, Fast Chat features notables in news, media, and business.

Today's episode is for all the media enthusiasts, history buffs, and anyone who loves a good behind-the-scenes story. Our guest today is someone who's lived and breathed broadcasting, journalism, and storytelling. Jerry Barash is a longtime broadcaster and journalist whose voice has been heard on some of the biggest radio stations, including WABC, 1010 WINS, and Bloomberg. And his work has been published everywhere from the New York Daily News to Broadcasting and Cable. Today, he's here to talk about his new book, Hear Now the News: An Inside Scoop into New York's Best-Loved Anchors. This is a deep dive into the golden era of New York news, highlighting iconic anchors like Jim Jensen, Chuck Scarborough, and Sue Simmons, and the lasting impact they've had on the media landscape. So if you love media history, listen closely. All right, Jerry, so great to have you with us. Thank you for joining us.

Thanks, Jaci. Great to be here.

So let me start out by asking, what made you write the book and why now?

Yeah, that's always a question people wanna know. Um, I, I was a child of the '70s. I grew up in New York and I, all those names you mentioned and are in the book, uh, those were people I grew up watching. And I didn't know that I was going to get into broadcasting when I was 6 or 8 or 10 years old, but watching them, I knew there was something special. Of course, there was only ABC, CBS, and NBC locally for news, certainly in the early evening and the late evening, other than the 10 o'clock news. So really, this was it. When it came to getting news, you didn't have your phone, you didn't have internet, you didn't have TikTok or Instagram. This was the only game in town. And they became stars. And there was something about these personalities. And it always stuck with me. Maybe I was impressionable as a child, as a teenager, but something stuck with me. And obviously, as I got into broadcasting, as I got into journalism, one thing led to another. I had started to write for Media Bistro Fishbowl New York about a decade ago or so, and I had done some interviews that were about that era. Uh, I interviewed Al Primo, who had, uh, created the, uh, Eyewitness News format. I had interviewed Rollin Smith after, uh, Vic Miles, uh, I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Rollin Smith, I interviewed about Vic Miles had died and we had somehow got connected. And one thing led to another and I felt I had these, these connections and there were these anecdotes that I wanted to tap into and it, it led to me doing the book. And the book was a process. It was, it was a 10-year process, not constant for 10 years, but the first interview I did was with Rolland 10 years ago this, this past summer. And it was on-off research, interviews, more connections that I would get for interviews. And eventually, and really during the pandemic, I had more time and I started to double down my efforts. And I realized as I'm looking at what I had written, That there's, it was like a surreal feeling. Like we have something here that might be more than just a few people on Facebook. This is, I really felt there was something interesting.

You interview a lot of big names or, you know, if you're in the New York metro area, these are household names. Some of them went on to be national names. But there was something, I guess, special about this era of news. So how would you describe that? And What made it special?

Well, you know, and the thing is, as I said, because you had no other place to get news. You had the national news at 6 or at 7 o'clock, but there was no cable yet. Cable didn't start until the '80s and beyond. So these were the people that you relied on, and they became in a way almost your family when you wanted to get the information at 6 o'clock or at 11 o'clock. You would tune to Eyewitness News or Channel 2 or Channel 4. And so they became people that you trusted and relied on to get that news. Uh, and, and the ratings indicated the, the ratings were just enormous, uh, in those mid to late '70s into the early '80s. They had tremendous numbers.

And, uh, of all the anecdotes that you have, all the stories. Which one resonates with you the most?

You know, it's interesting, and there's a chapter about the alcoholism, and I knew that was like a running joke that they would drink between the 6 o'clock and the 11 o'clock. Most of the time they had the same anchors and they would go and have dinner and they would drink, especially Eyewitness News. I knew Roger Grimsby, you know, and, and all of them, they, they would, they would like to drink. I didn't know to what extent. I didn't know that it was, you know, it was, they were drinking and they were so quote unquote professional because you basically never knew about it on the air. So, but a lot of people, they were telling me all of these stories. And, and there was, there was of course one story where they drank and it got on the, you know, on the air where, if you, if you, so this was in 1970 when they had just had a Christmas party. Famous last words, Christmas party and drinking. And they went on the air and they actually, the network, the station would always save the tape in case there was a lawsuit or, you know, something, criminal act and someone, you know, was in trouble and they wanted to show. In this case, it was gone by the morning because they did not want to have any way to prove that these people Anchors, reporters, anybody was drinking. So they, they, they removed any, any proof of it.

Well, since you brought up the drinking, how prevalent was it back then?

It was, everyone talked about Roger Grimsby, but Bill Butell drank. Tom Snyder later was with, he was with Channel 4 and then he would go back to New York at Channel 7, also liked to drink. And he would talk about it on his, his late night show on CBS. There was drinking that was just— I don't know what it was. It was a '70s party feel almost. And I don't think— it was almost like Mad Men where they would have the drinks in the office. That's the '60s, but it has that same feel. And obviously, there's pressures, the same pressures that everybody else had. And I guess that was part of it where everybody was doing that. Some of them didn't drink. Some of them were more smokers. I think Roland Smith— Yeah. —more of the smoking. Jim Jensen did drink a lot, but then he would smoke and you would, you know, there's the smoking. They refer to just wafts of smoke in the newsroom and even in the studio. They would have it on the air and they would have the cigarette kind of like Johnny Carson where he'd be on the air and the cigarette off to the side and he'd, you know, take the cigarette, put it into the ashtray. And that was sort of the— so yes, to answer the question again, they were— It was prevalent. It was big. It was, they seemed to do everything in excess in that era.

Okay. Fair enough. Well, a couple of the names that you've mentioned so far, what sticks out at me are we're, we're talking about a lot of men behind the anchor desk and a lot of white men primarily.

Exactly. Right.

So what happened there?

They were, I refer to in quotes, anchorman or anchormen. And exactly as you said, they were white men and they were either a solo anchorman going farther back into the '60s, '50s, '60s for the most part, or they were dual anchormen. Roger Grimsby, Bill Butell, Rollin Smith, Jim Jensen, Dave Marash. Very slowly, there were these little signs where they would bring a woman in. They would bring a woman of color in. And it, it was, I, I don't have an answer to why other than, you know, well, it was time, you know, women were starting to make their voices heard. They were starting to, you know, get colleges, get into colleges, make their mark, wanting to get into on-air positions. I don't have a specific reason and how that it happened. I just know that there was. And a lot of people have said as much in the book that it was time. I don't know when the specific moment changed other than Sue Simmons comes on the air in 1980 in New York, which wasn't the first. Melba Talaver had already been at Channel 7 and then briefly was at Channel 4 and worked with Pia Lindstrom. But it certainly— and you could say the glass ceiling and it broke the— opened the door and perhaps. But I think Sue Simmons certainly was the—

Yeah.

The bigger move. And she, of course, had the legendary mark with Chuck Scarborough. Carol Martin at Channel 2, a Black woman in the mid-'70s. Michelle Marsh, not a Black woman, but a woman. That was also a big deal just to have a woman. So little by little, just of note, while we're talking about anchors and having a woman, having a woman of color or of minority was a big deal. It took ABC Channel 7, the local flagship, it took them into the mid-'80s before their main anchor was Black or a woman, especially Black. I shouldn't say a woman because they had Roseanne Scamardella in the late '70s, but it was the main anchors were still Roger Grimsby and Bill Butell. And that goes up until 1986. So what they were doing, at least during that '70s era into the '80s, they had the melting pot in terms of reporters. With Eyewitness News. By Al Primo had told me, by his own admission, that was where they constructed it as a look to seem as New York, where you would have the Puerto Rican in Geraldo Rivera, a Jew in Milton Lewis, who covered City Hall and the courts. They had a woman, and that was at least one, but one who was also Latino. That was Gloria Rojas. So there was an effort made to bring in a larger picture of what New York really represents.

How would you describe the power of the anchor back then versus now?

Oh, it was just incredible. And I think that power also translates into egos. And that's fun or otherwise, that's part of the book as well. Because, for example, Roger and Bill Grimsby and Butel, they got along famously on the air, not so much behind the scenes. And there's a lot of that where— and that's not just in TV, that's been in radio, that's over the years where people who seem to do very well don't necessarily care for each other that much. And that was sort of the case there where I think they tolerated each other. It seems to be like a Roger and Bill. Not as much with Chuck and Sue. I think they were actually, they were very fond of each other.

So let's segue into what are your favorite stories or insights in the book? Like what stories moved you when you, when you first heard them?

There was a sad story about Jim Jensen having, had lost his son in the late '70s to a hang gliding accident. And it really affected him. I didn't interview Jim Jensen. Of course, Jim Jensen died in 1999. But through research and from other, other people who worked with him, he, it really began a long spiral for him where he was suffering from that and it led to taking pills, taking Valium. He wound up having depression and, and he was able to get off the pain pills that he was taking, but then he got addicted to the Valium and that was worse than anything else that he had. And it really, it took many years. He would go to rehab and it just, it ultimately, he lost his job. And I mention in there, there's one particular instance where, and I'll just very quickly, he was speaking to an anchor, Bree Walker, who was doing a report on the, I think it was on the 5 o'clock. She was coming on at 6. She was talking about her personal condition of a congenital birth defect that she has.

She had the—

Issues with—

The feet?

Right. Fingers. Yeah. And toes also, but missing fingers. And at the end of the report, Jim, who was sitting there with Carol Martin, was asking her these personal questions about— she has children and also talking about if she, if her parents knew that she would have this condition, would they abort her? It was very, very, you know, it was a bizarre thing to, you know, to see. And it's on YouTube. And the end of it showed how awkward it was when Carol Martin stood there and her mouth was, you know, totally open and just stunned. And I asked her about that and it was, She doesn't think at that point, or didn't think, that Jim Jensen realized that it was inappropriate, that it was, you know, it was one of those cases where he was thinking he was just doing his job. And it went on. There were like 3 or 4 questions about it. And it was, you know, you look at it and you're like, wow, that's, that's unbelievable. And, but, you know, he had up to and including then he was He was a, you know, an anchorman of anchormen. He was one of the legends of, of, of, of New York for 30-plus years. People wondered why he never got the— you talked about network exposure. He never really got it. I mean, there may have been a moment here and there when he was on CBS, very, very minimal if he ever did any filing of reports. There was, I talk about in the book. He did get on network, a network spot where he introduced the, the ma— the Masters, the golf tournament in 1966. And, and that had some controversy as well, how he introduced himself.

Oh.

You know, and, and, and it went to CBS and it had the Masters had to approve it. It was, but he didn't get, and, and others have said he could have been the next Walter Cronkite. And it, it, it didn't, it didn't happen. Chuck Scarborough did have some network experience. He was doing the weekend NBC Nightly News in the '70s. In the '80s, he was doing the little primetime 30, 45-second news updates, but it never, it never went there. And that's, you know, that's not necessarily a bad thing because New York is sort of like 1 and 1A with the With network, in order to get to the top for local news, the top market, you, you, you're in effect, you're, you're almost like network quality. You really are. So it's not like you're a small market, you know, and, and a lot of these people already had been at big markets. He had been in Boston, Scarborough. Jensen had been in Boston. And they just, it didn't happen. Roland Smith did. He left Channel 2 in New York. And did go to the network morning show, and that, that didn't last more than a year, year and a half. And then he was back on in New York at WWOR Channel 9.

Do you think they could have lived these kinds of lifestyles in today's media landscape where there's social media and there's just so much blowback when someone does something someone else doesn't like?

I would say no. At the very least, Everybody sees everything. You know, when you go to the, to the bar, everybody's there. You got social media there. There's a picture immediately. You can't be private. I don't think they would like social media. And I don't think, you know, I don't think they would like it in terms of even having to promote news or stories with social media. But I think the invasive quality of it, I mean, it certainly has its good parts, don't get me wrong. But I think in that regard, if they're doing anything, if they're out, if they're in public, if they're cavorting with friends, if they're cavorting with people, carousing, whatever, it can be its own little TMZ at times. And I think that it would not fly. And it wouldn't fly with the viewers. I don't think it would— it wouldn't go. Then it was so new, it was so unique, and it was so popular. But Grimsby was, for example, Grimsby, I'm using, and by the way, his, his, the title is, is an homage to him because that was his, I'm Roger Grimsby, hear now the news. I should point that out. So I have, you know, and I also want to point out that I, I, I come to this book with love for these people. You know, I, I go towards them all and show them as humans.

Yeah.

But, you know, it comes from a place as whether I was a kid, a teenager, an adult writing into broadcasting, I'm coming at it from someplace where I really put these people all on a pedestal. And I, you know, I, I, I appreciate what they've done and I really think that they are something special. And that special is their talent, their skills, and, you know, and also their, their, I wanna say faux pas, but also that they're, they, they're They're human and they, they, they have, they have just like everybody else, whether it's the drinking, whether it's the drugs, whether it's the, the personal demons. And they all seem to have that in some form or fashion. It had to be part of the book. I didn't want it to just be, these are great, these are great people, and, and leave it at that.

Now I'm curious because it's very different to be reporting on the news and being the person that asks the question. And being on the other side of the equation, which is you're being asked the questions, did you get any pushback from them on any topics or things they didn't want to discuss? Or were they like, oh God, not Jerry again, here he comes with these questions of things he, he wants to know and I want to forget?

No, not really. Everybody that was doing this, and don't forget, I had already connected writing about media for several years. I had already met some of these people or interviewed them, or they connected me with other people who were in the business, colleagues, cameramen, news directors. So I, you know, I already had that established relationship of some sort. No, the only— I really think the only pushback, if you want to call it, was when I had asked Roland Smith— we were just talking about the, the demons that Jensen had.

Mm-hmm.

And He just said, I'm not going to go there, like with the alcoholism and stuff. He wouldn't go there. So that was the only real pushback. Everybody else was totally open and he was as well. It just, he didn't want to get into any specifics and details about Jensen. But everybody was very open and very willing. And the only thing is they originally were asking, well, what's this about? what, you know, how, how much you, like, for example, when I went and interviewed Sue Simmons, who I had spoken to a few times before, I told her I'm writing a book about the '70s, you know, anchor greats in New York City. And she, she kind of tongue in cheek, but she said to me, well, I didn't get here till January 1980. You know, I'm not part of it. I said, well, we'll, we'll make an exception. You're part of it. You have to be.

It seems to me that that was also a time in news where people actually enjoyed being in the news, as opposed to today. You know, the industry has changed so much where it's so stressful and it's deadline upon deadline. And you're not only doing, you know, traditional news, you're posting on social media and you're blogging and all sorts of other things that those guys didn't have to do. So it's a completely different culture.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It, you know, it was, you're doing the newscast and I think, you know, and not to go into the alcohol again, but really the, the culture and the climate, it was, you know, other than the women, it really was, you know, they say the old boys club. That really was what it was like, whether in the newsroom. Or at the saloon, the bar, whatever, the pub. And so I think that there was more of a camaraderie in those days, whether it was alcohol or not, or smoking or not, but there was much more of a camaraderie. Yes, there was just putting the newscast together. And I mean, it still had to start for 6 o'clock at 10 o'clock in the morning. They still had to put a morning meeting together. And, you know, it was a lot harder because you didn't have to— you weren't editing video. There was no digital. It was all on giant film. So it had its drawbacks, but it was— I think it was much more, from everything that I know about everybody, it was a much more enjoyable— almost even though— Even though— Even though TV was around for 20 years at that point or more. It was almost like you were in the ground floor of something special at that point, because news was really evolving at breakneck speed by the, by the, you know, mid to late '70s.

So how is your book resonating with the public?

I've had great responses. Sales have been really terrific. I've been happy about that. And I'm also, you know, I'm getting reviews on, on Amazon. So I'm, you know, it's been really, it's been really nice. It's been a nice world. What I like is when I see a review on Amazon and it's not somebody Who I know. It's not somebody who, you know, bought the book on my Amazon page or, you know, whatever, who I'm, oh, I'm connected with. It's just a random person who maybe is in the business, but maybe just some person. And I love that because that means that, well, not only the book got out there and they're, they're aware of it, aware of it, but that they like it, that they've, you know, it's, it's, as I said earlier, it resonates with people whether they're in New York, of Of course, but I'm just, I'm just that, that really excites me when somebody who I'm not aware of who they are enjoys it and has, has nice things to say about it.

So tell me, now that you are a published author, how hard is it to promote the book?

It, the marketing is really, really hard. You know, I mean, putting the book together was hard because you can do the book. You know, which is hard enough, but in a way that's the easy part. Then you have to, you know, whether you're dealing with, if it's Amazon, I'm an independent publisher, self-published. So it's, it's all me. The only thing that wasn't me was the copy editor that I, that I got. And then the COVID the COVID designer. That was, you know, each person that I got did that. Everything else has been me. I mean, I'm doing The, the, the, the press release. I'm reaching out to people, either people that I know in the industry for interviews, people I don't know in the industry. And it's, it's, it makes it more gratifying because I'm doing it all myself. And so every interview that I'm able to get, every media opportunity is, is, is, you know, it's just that much more, as I say, gratifying because I'm, I'm— You know, I'm like coming out of nowhere and getting anything that I can and, you know, and trying to get it out to the, to the public, but also trying to get it out to the, to the media. So it, it's not easy. And I'm, you know, I'm, I reach out and, and again, some people have connected me with other people in the media and I'm, I'm doing what I can and I'm certainly very, very happy that, uh, we've gotten to connect today.

No, absolutely. So do you want to give us a little tease on maybe a story that people either haven't heard before, or maybe it's a favorite of yours because of some little nuance that the rest of us wouldn't know about?

There's one story. He doesn't get as much discussion, I guess, and when we talk about the greats, Bill Jorgensen, who actually just died, I believe, Last year, if I'm not mistaken, is one of the people that I interviewed who sadly died after, in that 10-year period we're talking about. He was with the 10 o'clock news. He was the original anchor when it started in 1967, and then he was at Channel 11 for a time. He told me in sort of a, almost in my, you know, news mode, in my journalistic mode, it was like, wow, this is almost like a little breaking news. He told me that before he came to New York in the mid-'60s, when he was, or actually it was early '60s, when he was in Cleveland as an anchor, popular anchor there, that he was told that CBS asked him, they wanted him to take over for some guy named, and I think I'm pronouncing this right, Walter Cronkite, is it?

I've heard that name. I think you're right. Yeah.

So this is around— he started in '62. So this would have been somewhere before November of '63, because once the Kennedy assassination, everything changed. But he said that he was asked about taking over because the ratings were not good. And, and Cronkite was not Uncle Walter then. He was not the beloved anchor that he would be, you know, known for the next 25 years or so. And he said no. Obviously it didn't happen. And it's, I thought it was an interesting story. I mean, he was, you know, I had never heard that. I couldn't find that anywhere. There's a horrible story that I won't go into, but Tex Antoine, who was the weatherman for many years on Eyewitness News, I don't know if you know the story, but he, he, he had been at Channel 4 for, in the '50s. He really was a very early broadcaster and then he was at Eyewitness News. With Roger and Bill. And he famously, infamously actually, said something. They, they would do this, what's called happy talk, where they would make these little comments in and out of, you know, going to sports or going to the weather. In this case, they went to the weather. Now, unfortunately, there was a very serious story that was said before going to him about I'll, I'll say it was about a rape of a young girl. Okay. And they went to him. They did do a very, very quick segue going to the stock market. And, and then he went on. Now, he would say sometimes these little lines about Confucius going into the weather. And in this case, he said, as Confucius would say, this is Tex Antoine. I believe the line is—I want to get it right—I think he said something like lie back and in if if if it's something like if it's going to happen, lie back and enjoy it. He never came back on the air. He wasn't actually fired for his contract ran out six months later, but it was it was a a dramatic moment and a controversial moment. And in in typical Grimsby fashion, when he, I guess it was a few days later or the next day even, Storm Field, who would then have a long career himself, he took over. And when they introduced him, when Grimsby introduced him, he said, and now, and again, I'm, I'm not sure if I have it exactly, but he paraphrased from what Tex Antoine had said. And he said, now lie back and enjoy the weather. with Storm Field. So he took this very serious moment and he made it into a witty repartee that he had done many times. And that shows Roger Grimsby. And I don't know if he had that planned, but that was a moment of him. Sorry if that was a long answer.

For people that aren't in the news industry, I think that's the kind of thing that resonates. It illustrates that they are human beings, as we tend to forget that part about news people, right?

Yeah, no, absolutely. And, you know, and just the behind the scenes, just very briefly, I spoke to, I think he was the sound engineer. He was in the, in the control room when that moment was going on, when Antoine said that. And he said he could see all the, all the monitors. And as soon as Antoine said that, there was a camera not on air, but the camera was showing in the, in the control room of Grimsby and he had his hands over his face, you know, indicating that, you know, that was it. And it really was. I mean, for all intents and purposes, he committed career suicide.

Jerry, any, anything you want to wrap up with?

I mean, the Chuck and Sue we talked about a little bit, you know, it's funny, Chuck and Sue, when they started, Sue had to— everybody who knows her personality over the years, she was She could be like a firecracker on the air. She could be a little, uh, wild card on the air. And she was told at the very beginning, you could do this. You can, you can have your personality, but you can only do it when the camera's on you, not when the camera's a two-shot, because we don't want Chuck Scarborough to get that and have, uh, guilty by association.

That was good thinking. I'm sure Chuck appreciated that.

Right, exactly.

Uh, Jerry, we're at time. I want to thank you very much for joining us today, and I wish you every success with the book. So to all of our listeners, don't forget to grab a copy of Hear Now the News. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to subscribe, share, and follow us on social media for all the latest episodes of FMC Fast Chat. The Fair Media Council is a 501 nonprofit organization advocating for quality news and working to create a media-savvy society.

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