586. "If they can buy what I sell from the big guys, why would they buy from me?" | Coaching Session

There is this level of yes, you're marketing and targeting sustainable restaurants and saying, hey, I've got something sustainable. But if they're presented with the product, sure they want sustainable. But it's not enough to grow your brand on. It just takes some marketing and brand messaging play for you to start to stand out versus thinking like we need to redo anything in your business. It's not that we have to remake the product, but we have to think, how do we differentiate? Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what are mistakes they could avoid, how did they turn an idea into successful business? And what are strategies they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. This is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Hey. Hey Product Boss. And welcome back to another coaching session Today. I am so excited to share with you behind the scenes of this coaching session with Claudia. She is the owner of Shift. Now, Claudia has a background in hospitality and she's leveraging that with sustainable ethical aprons, mostly with a B2B angle. She's starting to see success with a new marketing move, but it's time consuming. How can we double down on what works without taking up all of her time? Let's get into it. So tell me a little bit about where you are in your business, where you're at, where you're currently selling and what you'd like to get out of this coaching session.

So basically the industry I'm in is the workwear industry. I was many years in Asia, in Singapore specifically, and I was in workwear before, but started the business there because I felt like Asia was full of kind of polyester uniforms and I wanted to get a bit more natural uniforms to them and that was more like a customizing uniform business. Very small and project based. And then I moved five years ago with my family to London and I have three kids. I was thinking what shall I do? I really feel passionate about that industry, but I knew I wanted to be less involved in project specific work. And so I decided that I wanted to work to focus on an online shop and sell there. And the second part that was important for me is sustainability and I wanted to offer sustainable uniform pieces. And when I went down that road, I realized that there's so many aspects to it, I needed to simplify it. And that's where I started to look at aprons. And then I also realized it's an easier product to sell and that's how I then from a wider spectrum of uniforms. I said, you know what, I'm just focusing on apron. My aprons are sustainable and that's what I'm going to offer online. That's where I started in 2020 basically. Then Covid hit. But I had my kids, I had my online shop and I was like, well, what I sell is fine, but I have my kids. And anyway, restaurants are closed and so I sold a little bit here and there. And then 2022 I had kind of a reset. I'm like, okay, am I going to do this or not? And I was really close to stopping. I'm not going to do it anymore. But I felt so passionate about it that I wanted to continue. And I did this with again, like selling here a bit, but actually not really making money. It was really more for me to be busy and to stay involved and you learn always something. And I had a very bad beginning of 2023. There was literally no sales for like the beginning, the first three, four months. And up till then I tried so many things. I tried selling on social media, I involved people there helping me. I, I worked with Google and Google Ads and spent money there and just nothing worked. And then last year I was working with a PR person and I thought, okay, for my industry because they're not going on social media really to buy aprons. Maybe I just need to go to the industry magazines and I'm just writing an article and get in with that. And we tried that. But then out of this work with this PR person, I got kind of like a nice article about my business and I thought, well, since I have that, I put this into a brochure and at the same time I started to send this physical brochure in a mail to restaurants that I come across. I have industry newsletters, who is opening, who is moving. And I started to do that on a regular basis. And actually since I would say August last year, I could feel that the business Starting to pick up. You know, there was not any more the apron here and there, but they were actually, okay, we need 30 aprons or we need 50 aprons. And some came to customize and have their logos on it. So I realized, okay, this is working. So there is a market. There are people out there who want my product. And so I got much more motivated. But I have now along the way they come many questions. So I feel I got the car rolling now and I came across you through a friend of mine and I'm listening to your podcast and so many times you're just speaking to to me that I felt like I was many times when you have your business, you miss someone just to spin off some questions you have. And that's actually where I am. I have some questions where I just feel I'm stuck and I can't find an answer or I can't find where do I need to look next? And the big question for me is the car is rolling, but now I need to roll it faster. And I was nervous at the beginning of this year because I had such a bad start start last year. I was expecting that January, February, March is going to be the same because it's January and January don't usually sell. But actually I had until now fantastic months. And if they continue like that, I go actually over what I expected for this year. And that gives me obviously the motivation of actually I want to have more than that.

Well, one, I'm so glad you're here and that you found the podcast and me. And then I also believe, yes, the sky's the limit for your business. So I know like you said, it's felt like a harder climb up this hill, but now it feels like maybe it's starting to feel easier. You're more in it. You've been working through all of it. So we'll get there. My first question is, you're sending out the mailers and you're targeting restaurants specifically, and are they restaurant groups? Are they individual restaurants? What's your strategy in the target market that you're hitting?

I think the target client is obviously a restaurant that focuses on sustainability. So they have something on the website that represents that farm to market, also very sustainable, or they have a farm even attached to it. So farmers market, farmers, restaurants, bakeries. I started in the beginning that I realized that bakeries are really interested in the aprons. But in the meantime, also more independent, smaller groups, not the big groups. That's what I'm speaking right now. Just last week, a restaurant had Launched a new restaurant. It was like Greek influenced and they wanted everything sustainable and we were able to customize their aprons. So it's not the big groups. And of course everyone is speaking about it at the moment. But I would like to get maybe into some of the groups or the bigger, like boutique hotels, for example. But how can I speak to them? How can I get to the right person in these hotels or restaurants that are bigger groups and would have bigger volumes.

Okay, sounds like you've been having some excellent months lately. When they're ordering from you, what are they ordering? Because it looks like from an aprons perspective, you sell the waist aprons and then you sell the crossback or the full apron. Then you also sell tops and bottoms and accessories. So what are they actually buying from you?

If you look, a week ago I had more tops and bottoms, I just sold them because I'm not selling these. So I just sold them as a bulk to someone. I really want to focus on the aprons within the aprons. It's interesting. So I have cheaper ones, which I sell mostly online to individual people. So when the restaurants come in or the bakeries, they buy actually the more expensive one. But right now the cross pack sells very well, like the olive and coffee. I don't sell white at all. But the others, they are equally running well.

So I think one of my first things, just as like my first points of coaching, is that one, you're talking about your ideal customers. And so nailing the niche of where you're at now, you've gone into this perspective of saying you tried workwear as you're defining it as workwear. And I think also because you're in England, there's probably a different language being used, you know, because for me, when I saw workwear, I wasn't sure if it was close to wear to work, you know, if it's industrial, like if it's uniform. But when I see this, you said you're revolutionizing the way hospitality does workwear. So that means you're calling forward people in hospitality, which is a little bit more business to business that you're building this company on. So when you're saying you're selling these ones to individuals, they might go to a restaurant or cafe or bakery and see people wearing the product and be like, oh, what's that? And they want to buy it or however they're discovering you. I do think a little bit more differentiation online is important. So whether if you are switching over to aprons, there might be more categories to have within aprons that really define based on what somebody would be searching for. A problem in your product is the solution. Because me just looking at them, I assume the fabric is the same for all of them. I just have to pick my style and my color. And if that's not the case, then we probably need to identify it more. Whether it's in photos, whether it's the navigation that people can define it. Okay, this is, you know, front of house, lighter weight material, great for X. And then other ones that are like more industrial material for back a house. You know, you might want to actually use the language that would be industry known because we're not talking to me, the at home baker. We're talking to people within the hospitality industry knowing exactly what they need out of their uniforms. Does that make sense?

Yep.

I talk about speaking to your ideal customer all the time and this is a great example of that. Claudia's business is B2B, meaning she's selling directly to businesses rather than individual customers. The language she uses on her website should reflect that. The words you use to speak to a home chef versus a restaurant owner are very different. Whatever your business is, you need to hone in on who it is specifically you're speaking to and tailor your language to them. So the closest I can relate what you're doing from a uniform perspective. Not the closest, but the most modern version of this is Figs, which is a scrubs company.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I know Figs. They were a bit my motivator in the sense that I had only aprons and they had only scraps. And that's where I felt like they don't have so many different articles. It's basically pants and shorts, tops. Yeah, yeah.

They basically came up with a concept of what Lululemon or sportswear, athletic activewear did for the industry. They're like, great, we're gonna come up with something that feels trendy and in really great colors that the younger person will wanna wear. Cause if we all remember Dr. Scrubs from back in the day, I mean, you know, I know nurses even had little like unicorns or dogs and puppies and cats on their scrubs. They were printed. And so this was the opposite of that. So looking at how they their website, you can just see at the top they have women and men's, which yours are unisex, but then they have teams orders. So they have something really specific. This is whether you're outfitting a small team or need personalized assistance. Fig's teams has you covered with the discounts. For bulk orders. So this is something for you to look at in terms of thinking about the user experience. Your customer landing on your website, they're going to want to figure things out. And so to ask them to kind of understand that they can order in bulk requires another step of them having to contact you or they're landing here and being like, oh, these are great, but 18 pounds, 22 pounds, whatever it is, is too much for what we want to spend. So if there was a way for you to have something similar to how Figs has it with teams orders, however you want to phrase that language according to your industry, I think that would be great. And it says it all here really quickly. New customer, existing customer, got you covered with discounts for bulk orders. Now it's like, oh yeah, that's exactly what I need. And then the second stage of this is choose your experience. So by even splitting it up in that way, now we're allowing them to self select to say like knowing that they need a smaller amount, they can still order directly from you and not have to talk to anybody. They just have to get set up. And if you could see here they have the pre show us. It doesn't feel like this long thing of I don't know how long this is to going, going to take me but rather it's one, add your info, two, set up your collection, three, create your order. I'm like, oh, it's only a three step process. I have time to do this right now.

Yeah.

So that would be one of my first changes for you. The second thing is I would just love to have you give me a little bit more direction on the aprons. They all look beautiful, but they all look the same. And when I say they look the same, it means I'm expecting them to be the same material. They just have different styles. So if the materials are different and that's very specific, which it is in your, who you're selling to because this is also for protection, something hot spills on them or you know, they're working with sharp tools and things like that. So I think it is really important to share that information up front just so people can decide what they want. Knowing those points. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah.

So I like that you told me that you are doing aprons because when I landed on here and I landed on your Instagram, it's all aprons. Your website is really beautiful. So if it's going to be more aprons then you want to like start to switch this more to aprons. But Everything you have here feels like it makes a lot of sense. Go back to Figs. So do you see how on their products it says indestructible fabric? Like there's little keywords on certain things that they're doing. So not all of them are indestructible. Like you can see here. This normal one is just normal. And then so some of them they're highlighting as something very specific that they're trying to market and sell. And then when you look at the photos, there's other key things in here that tell them stuff. So it's classic fit, ridiculously soft. They could have just said soft fabric, but they were like, no, we're going to lean in. So ridiculously soft. One pocket anti wrinkle, which is a big thing. I've done aprons before. I've done white coats, I've done scrubs, I've done all of this with my one on one clients. So I've been in this space. You have to think, what are pain points that they might have that they're getting from other apron companies or you workwear companies, and what is the differentiator for you that you know, the beautiful thing about Figs, for example, the type of fabric that they use with the stretch to it, you can crumple up in a ball, but it's not going to look super crumpled. And then see how they have all these details and engineered with technical comfort and then they tell you fabric and care so you know how to wash it and stuff like that. So what would be pain points that you are solving for your chefs and restaurateurs and everything that your products are a solution to? Do you have that?

Yeah, I mean, at this point of time, I guess the biggest point is that, you know, materials are completely sustainable. They're organic cottons, but of course there are enforced corners, you know, in the pockets. I think these are the basics that I have. I have now so many ideas about, you know, material that is more repellent. Of course, I always need to make sure that then the sustainable part is still also covered, basically because that's how I position myself. And that's a little bit the problem. When I'm now talking about different materials. My material as it is organic cotton, 100% certified. And that's how I sell it, how I position myself, longer straps, durable straps, these kind of points.

So one thing that I recommend, you know, now that we've identified the niche, like we've identified who your customer is, your ideal customer, and we've identified the Product offering, right? So the product is that your. You're like, they need aprons. I'm coming out with sustainable aprons. There is this level of, yes, you're marketing and targeting sustainable restaurants and saying, hey, I've got something sustainable. But if they're presented with the product, sure, they want sustainable, but it's not enough to grow your brand on. And so it just takes some marketing and brand messaging play for you to start to stand out versus thinking like, we need to redo anything in your business. It's not that we have to remake the product, but we have to think, how do we differentiate? So one thing that this company has done, so this goes into market research, this goes into understanding who your competitors are, big and small. So this company, when you see somebody wearing this, you can identify them because they have this and logo on the pocket immediately. If I look at that. And Figs does the same thing, Lululemon does the same thing, that there's some sort of identifier on the product that states, like, oh, that's a blah, blah, blah. So do you have anything on your product that states, that's a shift apron on the inside?

I have a logo inside.

So that might be something for you to consider. It may or may not be directly on the front. There may be some sort of stitch detail, like always at the corner. Is there like a circle? You know, is there a certain color you use? Is there something that you put somewhere that when somebody were to look at this, it doesn't detract from the restaurant that's wearing it, but you can just identify it. Nike does it. Lululemon does it. Everyone is like, oh, you know, the difference between if it's a copycat, a knockoff, or like a small identifier. So that would be one way, I think, for you to establish yourself as a brand is visually I can tell right away that it's a shift apron. So doesn't have to happen now, but can be thought of as you build this brand. The next thing here, when we look at them now, this company has expanded into aprons and knives and linens and chef gear and all this stuff. This is not where you need to be right now. This is just an example of a company that is kind of doing what you had set out in doing. So you can see how they title it as, like, chef gear. When you look at it, it's very much chef gear. Right? If you know a chef and like this kind of chef, the kind of chef that would dress like this company, if we go to aprons, they have essential smock, Waxman. So they're identifying the style names of whatever the names are that they're calling them. And CS is like, big, more protection from your messy masterpieces. Waxman heavy wax canvas with strong leather straps. So they're already identifying for you if you have something called the Bistro or the Frank or the Lena or the Maxi, if you start to define these as holding their own, you can give them a very simple way that people are like, oh, yeah, I want more of the Maxis. Like, they can just start to refer to the product by name to know. And they know smock is loose fitting with super comfy crossback straps. So now you can build out variations of those styles that you have, but we know what we're getting in them. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So I would look for competition, for example, like this one. And you can start to see how they are building on aprons as a company, how they are expanding, how they are talking about their product, how they're showing the different colors. But the reason I went to this in the first place is why your product and not something else? So because, Claudia, like, you have your background in hospitality, this is such a big part of your story for us to trust that you know how to create aprons for exactly what I need.

Yeah.

So I love the story of it being sustainable, but the enforced corners and all of that is that sort of concept of professional grade or built to last. You want to think about pain points that your ideal customer has, and how do you reverse those pain points into a benefit to your product? And you are already doing that. You just have to identify it and give them the opposite to that. So if they're like, when I wash them, they fade. Then you might be like, sustains up to X amount of washes, can be washed at high heat, retains its color, all of that.

Yeah, that's my challenge with the organic cotton. That has some limitations on the, you know, you have to be careful. I mean, so far it works fine. The colors are good. But that's where my further work has to go in that I can put more of these points on the product.

Are you saying that because they're organic cotton, they can't be washed at a high heat?

They can be washed, but I have to be careful that they are not washing them too hot so that they're not shrinking because it's organic. And the fading, like, so far, nobody has complained, but it's an organic dyeing process, which, of course, also, it fades quicker than if you have a piece of polyester, okay.

So you can always spin anything, Anything. So instead of hiding it or saying like, I'm not gonna point this out, you know, there's some stuff where they say, like, materials that are like, meant to be worn and lived in. Like, people love the variations that they might get, like, with more washes. So it is an opposite sort of thing. So it's like naturally dyed and each one has this lived and worn in look.

You know, the people who buy it at this point, they are for the look. Like also the one we just had the opening. When they actually came to me, they said, you know, actually you want it to look a bit like wrinkle. Because we want have this natural texture. We want that. That's what we are looking for. And I think that's where it works as what you say. Like, you know, the wash boy in the kitchen or someone who is frying constantly, they're not going to buy my apron putting it on them. Because they need to have aprons they can wash on high degrees. That's right.

So knowing that, then you just build it into the story. So the idea of, like, customers love the organic nature of the materials. Right. There's ways that you can build it in. You know, people are like, those will break in. Oh, wait until you, you know, you wear those leather shoes and they break in a little bit more. And then you start to get that like, weathered look. And sometimes people will talk to you about it as being part of the joy and the journey of the product. So color fastness or not having color fastness, you don't have to say it's ex sustainable on this many washes, but you can turn in everything into marketing messaging.

Yeah.

And why customers love it. So then they can make a choice. They can make a choice of, like, you know what? No, we want this crisp, clean look that's more from a polyester. And we're always going to get navy blue looking navy blue. And it's made out of poly and it doesn't wrinkle. Let's just say I'm not talking about wrinkling for you or not. But if they want that look, everybody else is doing it. They can go to a restaurant depot and get the aprons that they need. So we just want to lean into the beauty and the differentiator to make you stand out in the market as to why they're going to choose you. And you can keep playing with this sustainability. Natural dyes, as with anything in nature, like, it evolves and it's organic. When I say organic, it's organic in nature. So that's just one way to define yourself. And then whenever you hear your customers say stuff back to you, why they chose you, write that down and think, how can I make that a marketing message? How can I build that in? Am I hearing that from more people? It means you're doing something right and then you might just need to be able to say it back to your future customers. Did you catch that? I said something really important. You can spin anything. When it comes to balancing the selling points of your product, there are always going to be trade offs. Organic materials may be harder to care for or wear in a specific way. Customers may have to pay more for local manufacturing. The point isn't to try and hide these features, but to spin them into a way that the customer understands and appreciates what they are getting. Look at leather. The natural discoloration is a huge part of the appeal. In Claudia's case, the wearing process is a natural result of the organic ingredients. So why not celebrate it? Hey. Hey friends. All right, so I'm calling all product based business owners who are making over a hundred thousand dollars in their business now. Yes, if you are making over a hundred thousand dollars to multiple millions in your business, this is for you. If you are ready to level up your business this year, I have a free free masterclass for you. Yes siree, it is awesome. It's called your three step framework to build a million dollar product based business in 2024. That's right. I'm going to be walking you through three steps in a framework that I have created to build a million dollar product based business in 2024. Now before I get into any more details, did you know that only 12% of women led business make it to $100,000 a year? And what's even crazier is that only 2% make it to a million dollars in revenue. Well my friends, this is where we have to change these stats. I am on a mission to change these stats for product based entrepreneurs like yourself. So if you're at this level and you've shown you've got what it takes, but what got you here is not going to get you to that next thing. To that next next level. It's time to learn some new tricks and strategy. So if you're ready to take your business to that next level, I invite you to join us in this exclusive free masterclass, the three step framework to build a million dollar product based business in 2024 where I will Teach you the proven system we and other million dollar businesses use to grow stable businesses, increase profit and remove yourself from the day to day so you can do what you love with the people you love. So if your business is making more than 100,000, maybe you're a multi six figure seven figures and multi seven figures and you're ready to kick your business up a notch, get some of that stress off of your plate and really enjoy growing your product based business. I invite you to secure your spot at the product boss.com proven path. It's the product boss.com proven path. Let's make this your breakthrough year. Your highest priority right now is ways to get the bigger business like to keep growing and to grow your business. Is that where you want to go into next?

Yes, exactly. So right now I'm writing, you know, once a week. It takes me quite some time because I'm looking at their restaurant websites. Is that you know who would be interested in my aprons? I sent them the brochure. Sometimes I write a little personal note or which is nice and I see actually that the return from what goes in is quite high. But I can feel now as businesses is picking up, I'm struggling more to find this time because I want the need to expand it. So how can I be getting to these buyers without you know, me basically writing five days a week cards? And I just, I feel there a bit at my limit. I tried many things and I'm like what else can I good work that I get to the person who buys my aprons?

Well, what you're doing is working and you're starting to see growth and we need to hit the market hard and need to come out of it as being the person for whatever it is that you're doing. Is there a way in this process? I know you're doing handwritten notes but when people have responded to you they say we love that it's a handwritten note or what is the reason they've responded to you? What is the thing you think is sticking out when you do contact them?

I mean I do think it's either the handwritten note or the fact that they actually get a physical brochure these days. Because I think a lot of businesses don't do that anymore and I think you don't have that much physical mail coming in. So I think I get an attention there. That's how I think for the ones I have been talking to Moonly like oh, you know, sustainability is on our to do list. And then this is playing into that corner. So let's have a look what kind of aprons there are.

So do you send an envelope with the brochure inside with the handwritten note attached or what does it look like when you send it?

Yeah, it's a three fold and I attach a little note to it. I have an organic envelope. It's all kind of like color themed and it looks, I think it looks quite nice. I think personally because I get so many people who want to sell me something every day in my mail inbox. I think it's a different approach and then I think I get their attention.

I understand that it's taking a lot of time, but it is working. So part of it might be is there someone that can assist you in the outreach? So someone whose task is to comb through that, identify the people, find the addresses. This could even be a virtual assistant that is not that expensive that can do the pre work for you like the discovery where then you're just doing the handwritten note and then mailing it off. So I want you to look at your process in which you're finding, discovering the restaurants. I would love for you to document your whole process, what you do, systematize it so that you can then if you were to hire somebody, not your daughter, but let's say you were to hire a virtual assistant for five hours a week and you're paying them. Depends. Like you can hire someone in the Philippines to do this work. They're excellent and they work in our hours. You can hire someone local to you, you can hire anybody anywhere. But if you can systematize the process in which you go through what is the biggest weight of time for you that is feeling draining that they can identify for you by you training them and then you just get their report from them, that's like, here's my list, Claudia. And then you, Claudia, could then like, you know, say I'm going to spend an hour every other day going through that person's list. I'm going to scan it, I'm going to know right away the stuff I need. And then you might even on the same spreadsheet highlight the ones that you're like a go green on. And then you might then send that back to your assistant to do something. I don't know what it is. Like if there's something back that they can do before it comes back to you or you've just green highlighted them and then now you know these are the people. And every week I want to send X amount of brochures out and then I'm going to batch out. Maybe every Thursday is my time in the morning where I hand write the notes, I put the brochures together and I send them out on Thursday. And then you know, you're not doing it again until the following Thursday. But there's a process involved so that you don't feel as overwhelmed by feeling like it's an all the time thing.

Yeah, I dedicate at the moment one day. But one question to you, like, who would be the first person I would hire or ask for assistance? And I could imagine that's probably an external like, you know, as you say, like someone just doing the research. The time consuming part of that process.

Yeah, I mean I would say where you feel like a bottleneck. A lot of times in product, we recommend that you either hire someone for the making, like the production of it all, or for the fulfillment. So are you fulfilling yourself out of your own home when people order?

Yeah.

Okay. So you just have to start to think where are you the bottleneck? What's getting in your way of growth in terms of time? And this seems like the biggest lever to pull to keep putting where shift on the map. The second thing thinking about shifting into this is working backwards from your goal. So if Your goal is $50,000 this year in sales or it's a hundred thousand dollars in sales, I want you to think about these bigger accounts that you've landed. So if they bought 30 aprons from you, what was that order total? Is that 30? Is 30 like the most you've sold?

I have like I sold 200 aprons.

Great. What would be an average apron count that you would sell to somebody?

I would say about 50.

So all you would have to do is land 50 stores this year at £1,000 each to hit 50,000 in your account or restaurants. And you absolutely can do that. If not have some bigger orders and have some smaller orders. So that's only about six restaurants a month that you have to land.

Yeah.

Because 50 can feel overwhelming. Six a month is like great, let's do it. Let's send out X amount of brochures, let's have X amount of contact outreach. And then from that knowing, like let's say you reach out to 100 restaurants a month, let's just say, and you know your close rate is 6 of the hundred, then you know every hundred I have to reach out to, I'll get about six or seven that I need. So then that starts to allow for you to work backwards from your goal and say it's measurable, what do I have to reach out to? How many respond, how many can I close? And then that gives you this rhythm to keep following as your sales plan.

Yeah.

So that is building off of what you're already doing. The second way for you to outreach and like a one to many sort of situation is finding industry events that they go to. So are there hospitality events, are there conventions? Where are the key decision makers in your industry going to discover products or to learn more or advance? Because that would be the partnerships that you're looking for. So, so whether you are a part of a gift bag that's somewhere or you sponsor an event or let's say there is a restaurant tour thing that happens and you have a booth there where you can be discovered by more people. Because while you are going to the sustainability aspect of it, to those restaurants specifically, you're going super niche, other people will buy your stuff that aren't fully sustainable, that aren't fully farm to table A. Especially if you establish yourself as the figs of aprons in the uk. So that would be finding the place where your ideal customers are and then figuring out how do you collaborate or show up at those events to have more of a one to many strategy. And then the last part would be working with kind of the same way that the company I shared with you does, they have some key chefs that are part of their squad or part of their defining people because they literally lean into some major chefs in America as part of the development of it. So it might be the same thing. It might be getting either testimonials from some of the chefs that are buying from you, photos of them sharing it, them posting on social media. Like all of it's going to come down to the tastemakers or the people who are defining stuff to continue to share it, to spread the word of your brand.

Yeah, I had that earlier in my mind already, but I had no real brand. But I think now I can, I have some that are known or also restaurants who are really happy about the products and I think I can do something with them because also they know me now a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. But the thing I want you to not forget and I know you've been moving very fast since you've started this. Like, like you said, once you started making the engines going, you just want more gasoline. You just don't want to run out of the gas in the tank. So we need you to find the help that you need to make it sustainable. And then also we want to keep following success like success leaves clues. So if you came to this call and you said, I'm doing all this, I'm sending out all these mailers and nobody's responding, which by the way, there are several people, lots of people, product entrepreneurs and bosses that I know that send stuff out and they get zero reply. So it may not work for other people, but it's working for you. So how do we make it sustainable? But continued, because that might be a differentiator for you that's working really well right now. Now, from a manufacturing perspective, you already probably know some of your bestsellers. We know white's not selling so great, we're gonna drop the white. Then we know the other colors. Collection wise, are you planning on continuing to come out with new colors the same way that Figs does or other materials? Or what's your plan from a design perspective?

So that's. I'm also right now on a kind of like a decision point and I think what you showed me with this other one company I quite liked. So I think at the end of the day, the different colors are more important than do I have two pockets or, you know, one on the top, etc. I think I want to stick with the models for now, but add a couple more colors.

I agree. So I do like the concept of you adding colors, but colors that let's say restaurants would use. When you start to build a restaurant group, you could always have a focus group from them and say like, hey, I'd love your feedback. These are the three colors we're coming out with. Vote on it. Because that's a way of marketing to them as well. So let's say you're coming out with a brand new bright yellow. At summertime, you might send it to your customers and be like, hey, we've got yellow, pink and blue. We're thinking of one to bring to market, Vote on it and that's the one we'll bring. It'll be available in May or something. This is longer. This is like as if you reached out to them back in January or something before you made the decision, and then you can bring them into the decision making and you also kind of get to do that research in terms of, you know, if no one says yellow and you were like, I want to do yellow and your best customers are saying no, it lets you know not to do it. So from a production perspective, you're going to sell what you sell, meaning what you put out in front of your customers is typically what they're going to buy. So if you were marketing and talking all about the half apron and you start to get customers that are about the half apron, or let's say you were doing direct to consumer and all you are talking about is the bistro waist apron. You're going to see orders come in about the bistro waist apron. If you do a whole feature on the Lena crossback apron, you're going to see people do that. If you do the Lena crossback and the coffee color, you're going to see people buy that. They buy what they see and they buy what they're being marketed to them. So you got to make that decision. The thing that I would do is I would just start to standardize. Do you do different sizes or are they one size?

One size.

Okay, so what I might do is, and you might already be doing this. What are the ones that you've actually run out of?

This one. Exactly. This one.

So knowing that this is a bestseller now, when you say the restaurant keeps ordering it, is it one particular restaurant that keeps ordering this coffee? Okay. So it's hard to measure off of one place. And if they stopped ordering and then all of a sudden you weren't selling it to anybody else and you've ordered 200 more of them than you normally do and then they decide not to order, what other colors or products are selling to the other people you're selling.

To actually relatively equally well. So I first thought that the blue and the ash of the short and as well as the bib apron went well and I didn't have the rust selling so much. But then I had a bakery, actually two bakeries. And I don't know what it was, but I thought, oh, maybe because people saw it on, you know, social media. And then now suddenly I was selling out of the rust one. So a bit what you just said, what people see people buy. But yeah, they were all equally in demand. I can't say really. Except this coffee one that went out so quickly because of that specific restaurant, the olive green went also out because the restaurant who bought it, that's a bit the problem. If one decides then, oh, I buy 100, but I'm counting more with like on average 50, then I'm quickly, you know, out of cycle with my planning.

That's how I would do it. I'd have your standard that you order in, knowing what your units are, knowing how you sell, and then look, you start to clear out a 250 units per style every month. And now we're going to make 500 of them because you're just doubling down on it. And the other thing that you're going to start to see longer term is you get someone in to buy from you. And then the question is, how often do they come back and buy more? Is there a replenish time? You might see, like, every 90 days they come back, or every six months, or you may have a check in point where you're like, I placed the order, I shipped it to them. And then you build in some sort of cadence that you're like, every 90 days, I'm going to check back in, see if they need anything else. Because everyone's a small business owner and they're all busy, so it might be on their list to order more with you, but they just keep putting it off. And so by you checking in, I might be like, oh, thank you, Claudia, for reaching out to me. Yes, I do need more. I'm so glad that you sent me that email.

Yeah. I was also thinking I need to do something like that. Great. Yeah.

So for you, it's really just, you're doing such a good job and you're definitely on your way there. And I think now it's setting up boundaries and structures and standard operating procedures and just a playbook for the cadence of your company so that you can go through this feeling more in control of your offer, like what you're offering to people.

And.

And then it won't feel like it's getting away from you when someone pops into your inbox and is like, I want 200 of them. And you're like, great, now what do I have to do? Right. So you have some sort of process established because the bigger you get, the more people you will want to hire and they're going to have to follow some sort of cadence. So we might as well start it now.

Yeah, exactly. That's great.

Do you want to talk about more stuff with money? Because I think you had other questions around it.

I think I have most of the points. I think one point that, you know, made me a bit nervous and I think in one of the podcasts you mentioned, you know, you don't have anyone. Sometimes even the husband you can't talk to because he has his work. I have my work. Right. But that's why I feel, I think, quite comfortable with my brochures, I feel this nervousness, anxiety, almost like when I then actually when people like my product and like when they, oh, we want to work with you. Can you come into the meeting? And I'm getting suddenly kind of like an anxiety attack. Oh, my God, I hope they like it. I hope they don't. You know, it's not just like, when they see you don'. Oh, this is not what I want. So really, like, I'm questioning everything. And that's sometimes, like, why is this. I have been doing this now for so long. Why can I not be just so, like, this is my product and I'm so proud of it.

Well, so what's the part that's giving you anxiety that you should be doing more? Like, what's the part that is happening in your mind?

I think that they're not going to like the product, like, in front of me. I think if they, you know, if I send something and they don't respond, that's it. Or when I customize, like, these aprons, they loved it. But I went to this opening and I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, you know, if I'm there and the apron smoke, like, you know, I don't know, so bad. And I'm like, oh, my God, what did I do? Like, this may be the justification that. That the product is good.

So in history, where do you have proof that the product is good?

People who wrote it to me. But I think every single time I have to start still again from.

So I want you to go back and I want you to think back to where is there proof historically that actually my fears. Because the fears that you're having are probably originating from before this product. There's something else somewhere back in the day, in childhood and past things, that someone, somewhere, you presented something and someone told you it wasn't good enough, or they didn't want it, or you felt some sort of rejection, and that came into other aspects of your life. But that's not what's happening with your current product. And even if it did, you kind of need a blessing, release and be like, I'm not for everybody, and that's okay. And I'm for the people that this is for. And I will take the feedback that matters and I'll leave the rest. Because if someone came to you, like, you know what you should do? You should make polyester ones that are blah, blah, blah, blah, with, like, prints all over them. You might be like, thank you for that advice. Thank you for the should, but that's actually not what we do because you're more secure in your why. And I'm going through this. I mean, I'm dealing with this all the time is sort of the idea of one, where is the proof that this isn't true? And the second Thing is, when is another time in my life that I have felt this way and I have overcome that. So if we think about me with money and money scarcity stories, which I talk about a lot of every single time I made another big move in my life, because home and house is a big deal. So I remember when I first. We bought a condo when we were younger, and we needed to do the down payment, and I don't know if it was like $1,800 a month, but we were in our 20s, and it was a lot of money. I don't know how we're gonna pay that. And then we moved to New York City, and it was $5,000 to rent an apartment. And I said, I don't know how we're gonna pay that. I remember calling. My husband's like, Broadway producer. He's the guy who created Wicked. We called him in the middle of the night. We're like, is the show going to close? How are we going to pay for this rent? Right. Like, it was always this repetitive pattern, but we always figured it out. And so anytime that this comes up for you, or you're feeling scared or you're seeing a pattern come up, I want you to think historically, when is another time that this thought came up for me and I overcame it, and there's proof that I can overcome it. And then that's going to be the thing that I think helps to start to manage that fear and anxiety. Because the fear and anxiety is just of the unknown, but it's pulling from stuff that's happened in the past. It's not pulling from your current moment.

Yeah. Thank you.

You're not alone in feeling this way.

Yeah. It's interesting how much it can impact you.

And so one thing as you're thinking about moving forward as. Because I think what I want you to ground back into is, like, this brand building. So looking at the brands, like, let's say this American brand, anyone else that you can find that you could model off of? And then I do want you to consider before you go into the next production, because it looks like you're very good at branding, you're very good at product development, design, aesthetic, your website, everything is gorgeous. So I want you to think, if I were to add a logo, an icon, a mark, something that when I visually saw these aprons, I knew they were your brand. What would that be? And then perhaps you test that before you go into your next round of production, because you're starting to grow. Even if it was like an orange stitch Mark that was always on one pocket. And you can look at other things, you can look on Pinterest, you can look at other products, you can see what is a mark that they use. And that's what I would start to think about.

I like that. I have thought about that in the beginning. I forgot about it again. But yeah, I think this is the right time.

Yeah, you've got momentum. So that's what I would maybe do for this next part because that's the other differentiator of like, why yours and not someone else's? They're gorgeous, they're just going to blend in. And so if we can just mark them, then when people visually see them, they know. So they're not just going and buying some cheap ones somewhere knocking you off. But it's that identifier being like, these aren't knockoffs, these are shift.

I like that. Yep.

It might even be how you do the dot, like the period. I don't know. There's something here.

I'll think about that.

When you're trying to sell a higher end product, you have to be able to convince customers of the value. One way to do this is through branding. Words like organic and sustainable can begin to communicate that. But the true opportunity lies in beginning to associate your brand with quality. That's where you'll want to start taking advantages of logos, word marks and some kind of signature that communicates your unique brand identity. This is a bit of an advanced tactic, but it's a powerful one. So one of your questions was a strategy or plan for the next two years. So let's talk about the next. Might be able to double down into the next two years. So one, I want you to think about your ideal customer so you know the restaurant that you know. And then you can also think about expansive markets. So who else could you expand to? Like you might be able to sell to florists, nurseries, right. Like who else requires an apron or a work apron or wants a certain look like baristas, coffee shops, everything you said. So I think it's mapping out the expansion there. You stay with your target market, you get that going and then you can think over the time, how do you expand? And we'd always work backwards from your end goal number. So if it's 50,000, if it's 100,000, if it's a million dollars, doing exactly what I said to you of like, well, let's just break it into numbers. So let's just back it up. So let's just say that you decided that you were going to have 80% of your business this year come from business to business and 20% come from direct to consumer. So you would then measure that out. I'm going to go with a hundred thousand dollars because that's like an easier number to go. That means $80,000 for the year needs to come from business to business. You're slightly less profitable when I say that because we're doing less of a markup. We're doing more of a wholesale order than a retail. But that's totally fine because businesses for years were built solely on wholesale. Not everyone had access to customers direct to consumer. So let's say it was 80 grand on that and then 20,000 direct to consumer. And then every lever you pull every month, every week is related to your marketing efforts to reach your target customer. So it might be that your Google Ads and any sort of ads you do are actually better for the direct to consumer market. And you're scaling the ads part to generate leads to come into your website and buy. Now that the aprons for $48 to $58, you're making more of a margin on the person that you're getting. Your website flows and works specifically for direct to consumer. And you're like, great, $20,000. I'm just going to divide it over a year instead of. So you need to be making 16, 1700 pounds a month. Yeah. To make 20,000 direct for consumer. And so then you know, okay, so let's say I'm going to divide it by £50. So you would need 32 orders a month at £50 each to hit that 62. So that's like an order a day. Yeah, but you got somebody who starts buying two or three at a time. Now we only need 15 orders. Right. So that's just a lever that you're going to want to strategize for and say, okay, if I really wanted to build my direct to consumer business, what would I need to do there? Is it the thing you do this very moment? No, because I think you've got momentum behind the other side. But I just want to break it down for you. Then the other side of it goes into your target goal for business to business. Same thing that we did. We're like, okay, if they on average order a thousand from you, we need 50 stores to order. This is how many we need to have a month. You have just target goals. Now everything just becomes target numbers, goals, metrics. It's not personal, it's just numbers.

I like that, I like that. And the breaking down, it suddenly makes more sense. Like this is something that I can achieve and it's not anymore like a huge number. Like at the beginning of the year you put it into your budget and now it's kind of like, okay, that's, yeah, it makes sense.

And then your metrics are measured against that. So then you're thinking, okay, what effort? So when we're thinking about the efforts, because you're right now solo raising three kids, doing all this stuff, including fulfillment, then you start to think, when you're making a choice or a decision to add something in, I want you to think, does this work towards my goal? Or is it just a nice to have? Or is it a distraction? So if you start to see that the Google Ads doesn't matter either way, then you turn them off. You're testing it against the metric. If you're, I don't know, you start standing on the street corner and handing out stickers and nobody wants the stickers and it doesn't yield you getting what you want, then you don't do it. So you start to just say, these are my big goals, these are my targets and all of my efforts are going to go towards that. You either test and try or you say, no, I'm not doing it at all. For example, kids aprons. Let's just say one morning you wake up and you're like, I should start making kids aprons.

I'm thinking that right now.

Pause. Because right now you're going for industry experts. So if we think about your target market, your target niche and how to be known, especially in, let's say the UK for what you're doing, by doing kids will completely distract from your end goal long term. You build this to a million dollar business and you've got a huge direct to consumer. You know $200,000 is coming from direct to consumer or more. And you're like, this is growing and people want this. Mommy and me matching aprons and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Great, let's add them in then. But I'd love to see you get to a million dollars. Business to business. Or you look at that 8020 rule and you say, okay, this is where I'm going to focus. So that's how you're going to start to crush your goals over the next one, it's that belief. You're going to believe that you can do it, which you've already come this far. Two, it's the mindset part. Those are the two biggest things. Like you're your biggest obstacle and staying focused, being like, this is my goal, I'm staying focused to that. And then everything else is just math and numbers and trying to stay focused. Like, you put your blinders on, like those horse blinders, and you're just like, this is my goal. And if it's outside of that, we're going to have to come back. And that's also going to help limit your overwhelm.

It's funny that you said the kids, because I actually have a sample back here that I wanted to have a mom and the kids. And I also like, what am I doing here? Nobody that I want to target is going to buy that. I need to make more colors of the ones that I have. That's what I basically.

And variations of the ones you have. Right. So as you look at that other company, it might be like, the colors are there, but now you're doing a leather strap or you're doing a color combo strap. Right. We're doing combinations on things that they already know and love and they're just getting variations on them. Right. Because they're like, ooh, oh my God. Now you're doing a brown leather strap. Like, I want that. Even though I bought them all in solid blue. So that's where I want you to play with your creativity and I want you to play with your creativity of marketing and messaging and finding the people versus thinking. You need to start adding. Do not add knives, do not add table linens, do not add kids. Like, you're starting to see this momentum grow. Let's keep being the number one in the UK for sustainable cotton industry grade aprons that are modeled after these other brands out there that like, maybe America has more of it than the UK does right now. And you're going to bring it over. Like, this world is very big and we can each take a little piece of it and be like the number one wherever we are.

I like that. And that's also something that I felt quite motivational because you keep saying that and that helps a lot. Especially again, when you're a mom and you have so many other things like, oh, why am I trying? Even there are so many others selling aprons. You can buy them anywhere, in every shop. Amazon, everyone has aprons. But there is a niche and there is a piece that is for me.

Yeah. And that's why you came out with this in the first place. And then the stuff you've already made is very cool and it might be a down the road. So you may have like the workwear, the shirts, the accessories. All that it may be that you've jumped too fast ahead versus finding like the niche in the market that you can fill. And as you can see with that other company, they have expanded into other product lines, but they did not see start that way. So you just need to know that you're starting. And overnight Success is sometimes 10, 20 years of overnight success where all of a sudden you're on the map and everyone knows you, but you're like, do you know all the work I've been doing ever since to get it here? So they might be like, oh, my gosh, you know, shift has shirts and keychains and knives and oven gloves and blah, blah, blah. And you're like, yeah, sure we do, but we've been doing this for 10 years, only on aprons until we jump to that next level. So give yourself the patience and the time to step through this. You're on a roll. There are people that are going to hear this and say, oh my God, I would love to get an order of 200 of something to somebody. I would love to sell out a product. So you are doing very well at what you're doing. You're just very close to it. And like, if you pull back bird's eye view, you've done amazing things with the amount of time that you've had and the new business that you've just launched.

Thank you.

All right, any follow ups? You feel good?

I feel good, yeah. Thank you.

All right. So how can we support you and shop from you? Do you ship overseas or is it only in the UK or in England?

No, I ship overseas. I haven't really, but I have done some within Europe, but I can theoretically sell everywhere.

Amazing. So how do we support you? Where can we shop?

How do we follow you follow on Instagram? I don't know. I haven't thought that far. That's my. I haven't put that marketing hat on anyone having a restaurant, but please visit my website.

So it's where shift co or if you want to follow on Instagram, it's where shift co and we'll drop that into the notes. But you're doing a great job and modeling for a lot of people, like aesthetically, what it looks like as you're building this brand and being established in the market and you're on your way.

Thank you.

This is great. I hope you loved it as much as I did. We don't get a lot of B2B coaching sessions, but all of the same fundamentals apply. A business owner is just another type of ideal customer. I love how Claudia has found something that works and she's mainly concerned with scaling that. We talked about how to differentiate her product from any apron someone can pick up on Amazon, as well as feeling more confident and comfortable with what she's selling. The mindset aspect of running a business is so important and I'm grateful Claudia opened up to talking about some of that. Remember, there's a whole community of product bosses that know your struggles and we're all in this together. Now if you're not following me on Instagram, would you mind following us over at the productboss on Instagram and DM me? Say hi. Let me know if you resonated with anything in this episode. I would love to hear from you. All right my friends, I'll see you on the next one. Thank you for being here and listening all the way through the Product Boss podcast. If you love our show and it has helped you you in any way in your business, would you mind doing two things for us? Subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode and leave us a review. Reviews help other product entrepreneurs know that this is the place to be to grow their businesses and realize that they're not alone. And we know that you all know that a five star and honest review helps you sell more products to more people. So you know that your reviews help us reach more listeners around the world. World. Remember, what we give is what we receive and we are all about helping each other in the Product Boss community. We are all in this together. We would be so appreciative of you if you could take the time right now to subscribe, leave a review and even share this episode on social or someone you know so we can impact more lives. And remember, subscribing means that you will get notified each time we release a new episode so you never miss a thing. You have helped us grow and climb into the top 10 of all marketing podcasts and together we can keep climbing. Thank you friends and remember there is room at the top for all of us.