605. The Key Foundations Most People Skip Over When Starting a Product Business

So I like to say you can't reinvent the wheel, but you can redesign it. And so that's what I think. People, they come up with the idea, but they really need to know who am I serving, who is my ideal customer? It's not a range of 25 to 65 year old women. No. Like you have to come up with exactly who that person is and what the pain point, what's the problem you're solving with the product? And again, a Chanel bag doesn't solve a problem, but it meets a desire.

So.

So I think that's the very first start, like part of nailing your niche. Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into successful business, and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Hey, product Boss. All right, I'm back with a super exciting episode for you today. Now, over the summer months, I've really been thinking about how I can support you and all the amazing, amazing information that we can share here at the podcast. And so I've also been doing a ton of podcasts episodes on other people's shows and some of them have been just so good, so insightful. The questions that are asked, I'm like, how can I share this with my audience? So I've asked favors to see if these other podcasts will let me air them on the Product Boss. And they said yes. So today's episode is an episode where I was a guest over on the Insight out podcast and this is hosted by Billy Samoa Salavi. Now, Billy and I had such a great time recording together. I mean, I absolutely loved every moment of it. It was one of the best episodes I think I've ever done in terms of the questions asked and the insight and how deep we went. And I think that Billy is really able to take and find the jewels and stories and the way people's people teach. Right. And he's been able to figure out how to explore how you can turn these into actionable strategies, actionable systems, and how you can actually get. And that's what he did in this episode. In here, you're going to hear me discuss key strategies for product based business owners, including effective brand messaging, how to stand out in crowded markets, and the benefit of focusing on core products while combining insights from my own journey as a business owner with Cuffs Couture and the role of market research, how important that is and how important it is to have an understanding of your customer. Right. This is all the parts that go into building a successful business. This episode is filled with tons of gold nuggets and I can't wait for you to hear it. So let's dive in. Yeah. So she ended up taking the secretary role. That was something that my grandmother did. It was sort of culturally what was happening at the time for her. And she just thought it was the safe way. Right? It was the safest thing to do versus stepping into something. So as I grew up, I had a mom that made things. You know, she'd make us things to wear. She'd make things and sell it. She might go, you know, to local churches and temples and sell at their, you know, Hanukkah or Christmas shows. But she always kind of said it was this regret. Now, she was a great mom. She was a stay at home mom. She raised five kids, pretty much solo for the kind of family I grew up in. And, you know, I grew up with this thing of this sort of this path she could have taken as a creative, but she didn't have the support around her. She didn't have parents that were like nudging her towards her dreams. They were okay with her playing it safe. So it was something that really influenced when I had the choice I actually went to college. I was like, maybe I'll be a lawyer. And then I had met someone who was going to fashion school. And I went to my mom and I was like, I don't. It was funny, right? Like, things repeat themselves. And I said to her, I was like, I don't know that I'm in the right place. I think I might want to go to art school and become a fashion designer. And she's like, do it. So everyone else was like, my parents would never let me drop out of a UC school, you know, to go to art school. And it sounded crazy, but I think not living a life of regret was something that she shared with me. And then she also supported me making those choices.

Amazing that you had that. And I always look at origin stories because they're such a fascinating glimpse into who we are today. Right. And it's funny because I did a little research, and I'm not more than a golf ball strike to hit Otis College from here. So where I'm sitting right now is close to where you went. And I really appreciate the fact that your mom took her own life journey as a lesson and you learned from it as well. Let's flash forward a little bit to. You're 10 years old and you're selling lip gloss made out of Vaseline and face paint. And so tell me a little bit about that. And how did that sort of. What did you learn? What lessons did you learn from that early childhood story?

Yeah. So, you know, I am really lucky because I. I'm a daughter of immigrants, so both my parents came here from another country, and they really just had to figure it out. It wasn't like something was laid out for them here. And honestly, probably generationally, my family has always been one. No matter it was whether it was my family from Morocco that went to Israel or if it was my. My English family that came in from somewhere else, they always had to kind of reinvent themselves and make things happen. So I didn't realize entrepreneurship was baked into my life. It actually was always such a struggle, if that makes sense. You know, it was like feast or famine or parents were stressed, things like that. But I wasn't allowed to wear makeup when I was younger. But I was. I had face paint because I was a creative. And I actually had, like, a little sister, and I would face paint at birthday parties for her. And so I had this genius idea. I was like, well, if my mom's not going, let me wear makeup, maybe I can make my own. So I started taking Vaseline, which was in the house, and I would take the face paints and I would mix them together and I'd make myself lip gloss. And then I would go to. I don't know if it was Michael's back then, but little, like pretty jewel boxes that were plastic, and I put it in there. And so I was, you know, I got resourceful for a need that I wanted. But then I started selling it to my friends. You know, I was like, hey, do you want lip gloss? You know, it was like, I was like an early adapter because, like, kids now love the Lip gloss. So yeah, I would take it and I think I tried, you know, charge $2, $5. But I was always resourceful. Cause I also my other main company was called Jackie's Wacky Faces because with my face paint and my sister was 10 years younger, her friend's parents like paid me 20 bucks to do a face painting party. So I think the idea of like knowing that I could try and make my own money or make money from nothing, it's something that I didn't realize that not everybody has baked in. So not everybody realizes they could be a self starter and kind of have a great idea that they can come up with, make it and just try and sell it to people that they know. But it because realize that some people think it's really risky or scary. But it was sort of, I think just again how I was raised and something that I did when I was in fifth grade. And then every time I had an idea I was like, well, let's see if somebody will want to buy it. So I really, I really was someone who made things and sold them from a young age.

I love the story and it's so interesting. When you look at immigrants and the children of immigrants, there's a deeper appreciation, there's perspective. Right. Because they look at the opportunity that we may have that you and I may have being from here that they didn't have. And it lights a fire. It really does. It motivates you and it gives you this new lens to look through because you now have opportunities that you may not have been afforded in otherwise. And so I super appreciate that. So it's funny, when I did my research on you and I was like, wow, Cuffs Couture, I'm not joking you. I bought a domain called Wrist Pack years ago and I was like, because I was a, I was a big clubber and I like to go out and I was like, you know why it doesn't something to exist that allows you to like have a wearable place to keep your belongings. And I was thinking definitely women are going to need this more than men, but men and women could use it. So let's talk about like what was the brainchild for Cuffs Couture and how did that unfold to what it became?

Yeah, that's one insane that you had that idea and that we get to meet all these years later.

I know, right?

Yeah, it's really cool and I know we'll get to it. But I have through my one on one because I was a fashion designer working for other people and creating things. But I was given a lot of opportunities working for these bigger companies that they were still operating small. So I held, I held a lot of responsibilities at these companies I worked for versus my friends who were at Gap or Nike. They did like one small thing in the huge machine. So with cuffs Cusco Tour I, you know, I hate a bag. I'm like, I had a really, like a best friend who had the Mary Poppins bag or she could like pull out a lamp and pull out a. You know, she had everything in it. And I was like, I don't like, I don't need anything. I need my lip gloss. Going back to lip gloss, my key, a credit card, and that's pretty much it. I don't want to, you know, as women dancing, you know, like we were saying, like I hated to put my bag down and I hated having it on my shoulder. So I started doing my market research and looking around like what exists. And everything that I saw was athletic. So it was, you know, to go running or to do yoga or it was all activewear. I was like, what if we made something that was cool and fashionable to wear on our wrist? And so when I ideated it and came up with it, it had, it's crazy, the ones that did really well. But again, this is back in the 10, 15 years ago, like big crystally bows or they look like jewelry. It was like this beautiful Victorian type cup. So. But the ones that did really well, which were my bestsellers, kind of look like a stack of bangles. They were gold or silver. They were the celest stay cuffed. So that was really the idea. And because I was in the fashion industry and I was in downtown LA and I knew what I was doing, I was able to really take this idea and get it done quite quickly. And then again, it's sort of like we all have to think about what our superpower is or what our unfair advantages. And my unfair advantages is that I lived in Los Angeles. I grew up around Hollywood. My husband's an actor. I had access to people and so I didn't have access to. I ended up dressing or Kim Kardashian bought my cuffs. Carrie Underwood. I didn't have access to them, but it just happened because the initial people I had access to or being in Hollywood where their stylists were or where Kim Kardashian still used to do her shopping, you know, when she used to leave the house without all the bodyguards, you know, she walked into a boutique and she found my cuffs there. And so I think that's kind of the cool stuff that happened. And I, I loved growing that business.

Yeah. And clearly it, you know, did really well. And you got through your own unfair advantage, which I love that perspective and that way of thinking about it. You had people in your orbit, even if you don't have a direct line or connection to Kim or to Carrie or whoever, because you use those initial people in your orbit, your husband being a Broadway actor and, you know, having that world opened up to you living in la, like, you know, you and I both. Right. It's like your LA kids, like, you just know people and if it's not the person you know, it's who they know. Right.

Yeah.

So it is, it is a distinct advantage. And so, by the way, Cups Couture or Cuffs, just that name, such a cool name. And branding. So we're going to get into the ideation, we're going to get into the branding, we're going to get in all those pieces. Because one of the things that you've said is the biggest mistake is that you go straight from like the idea or the, the creation of it to the selling and you miss those foundational pieces. There's four pieces at least. And then we'll add the fifth piece, which is Mindset, which you said is like, frankly, one of the biggest unlocks for you. But let's, let's dive in and talk about mistake number. The biggest mistake is that they jump straight into it. But the first foundational piece is they need to understand the niche. They need to, as you say, nail the niche. So talk a little bit about that.

Yeah. So, you know, and, and so the in between of my life here. So. Well, while I was building Cuffs Couture, I started a company called Designer Consulting Co Op. And I've had it since 2007. They say it gets started even before you know anything. So I started when I was like 26. I was like, okay, I know how to build a company, sort of. I knew more than people who wanted to start it. So through that company over the past, I don't know how many years we're at now, like, it feels like almost 20, almost. So I launched over 2000 brands. So let's say you had an idea and you're like, I want to make something. You would come to me and I was in downtown LA and I would help you come up with the idea and design the product, develop it, going through production and all through sales. When people would come to me, you should know there are some crazy ideas that People came to me with like, this one guy was like, I hate when I wash my girlfriend's dog and it shakes all the water out and the water gets all over me. Can you create a bodysuit that I could put this hose into the water and then when he shakes it, like massages the soap? I was like, none of this makes sense. But if you want to pay me to design for you, sure, I'll do it, you know, so people come up with these ideas and a good story to tell you is I had this person come to me once and she's. She was, I think, a six foot tall woman. And she's like, you know, I cannot find clothes that fit me that are for tall women. And so she wanted to make clothes for 5, 10 and taller. Now, she did not have a lot of money to start this. It was like $20,000. And she's like, but I want to make bathing suits and evening wear. And basically she was thinking of every type of garment a woman could wear that she wanted to serve. I was like, that's great, but what is the biggest need in the market? And so she's like, pants. Because I also like, if she came to me, she's like, I've got $3 million. Let's do this. Great, we have a little bit more money to play with. But we didn't have that much. So it was like, so pants were the things that they needed. Then I said, great, okay, what kind of pants? And this is during the time where we all started transitioning our clothes to activewear. We didn't always wear yoga pants every day. So there was a time before, so this is like the yoga pants time. And so she came and I was like, she's like, yoga pants or activewear pants ended up coming out with four styles of, for women that were 5, 10 and taller of yoga pants. So the thing is, is like, when you nail the niche, we have to understand who we're selling to. Where is the biggest need in the market? What is a desire that we can either meet or how do we move someone away from pain or solve a problem? And I say that because, yes, you can come up with an invention like Cuffs Couture, which solved a problem, but it also, the problem was solved with other wrist wallets. But I wanted something fashionable, right? So I like to say you can't reinvent the wheel, but you can redesign it. And so that's what I think. People, they come up with the idea, but they really need to know, who am I serving? Who's My ideal customer, it's not a range of 25 to 65 year old women. No. Like you have to come up with exactly who that person is and what the pain point, what's the problem you're solving with the product? And again, a Chanel bag doesn't solve a problem, but it meets a desire. So I think that's the very first start. Like part of nailing your niche.

Yeah, And I like that distinction because we've all heard, you know, solve a hair on fire problem, but in some cases it's actually a desire, in some cases it's a need. There's variations of that sort of through line, which is you need to provide something that is going to solve a problem, is going to be something that people want and crave and desire. To your point, there are competitors out there that are doing something similar, but you've redesigned it, you've reimagined it. It's like, I call it the s' mores effect. S' mores are great. If you take graham cracker, marshmallow, graham cracker on their own, they're each individually good, but you put them together and it's magic. So you've now created something super unique. And your point on the niching down, it's like niche down, niche down again and niche down until it hurts. You kind of gotta go granular. It's not just looking broadly, you know, age range. That's not a market, that's everyone. And as you know and everybody else knows, you're selling to no one. You can sell to everyone. So let's get super tactical here. So what would be an exercise or something that somebody could do to sort of gauge are they niched down enough and can you niche down too far?

Yeah, I think you could niche down too far where you're like, it's specifically for this person who does whatever, you know, like you can do that. So to get tactical on that, I think a lot of times, and now I work with people globally, right. And then I work with people. You and I are in la, we, we have, we're in a bigger city. But then there are people who tell me it takes three hours to get to their nearest target and that's us in traffic here in la. But for them it's a significant distance, you know, so. So when you're not. What I see as the biggest issue is when people are trying to understand who their target customer is based on their surroundings. If they aren't, you could have a great idea for something that might be best for New York and la, and you could be living in Nebraska. Right. But you need to really, truly understand who that person is. So if you are not surrounded by your ideal customers, which includes the amount of money they're willing to spend, then you're going to need to expand. So what that would be is I take, and we do have an episode on this, but I take people through an ideal customer avatar exercise where you start to think, like, who are they? I would give them a name. I would know if they have kids, if they're married or not married, if they work or they don't work, where they shop. You really want to identify, like, especially when you're coming into products, where do they shop? Where is, like their main place? And if you don't know this, then you have to go do the market research on it. You're going to need to expand your horizons as a fashion designer. They sent us to New York or China or Europe to shop the stores and see what other people are doing. So there is this element of market research, understanding the greater consumer, and then really honing in on who that person is. But I'd say it like this. Like, imagine you had, you know, when you could cut, you take a piece of paper and fold it, and then you cut like a person out of it and you open it up. I forget what they're called, but, you know, like a bunch of people holding hands on paper. Okay, so imagine like a bunch of people and like one is red on the far left side. And on the far right side, it's like a super light light pink. So the red is your ideal, ideal, ideal customer. You're like, this will solve their problem perfectly. Now you can still sell to people at all these shade variations of the person that's light, light, light pink. That person might maybe buy from you once or buy it as a gift and may not be your ideal customer. You know, the people who are like pretty Barbie pink, they might be buying a few times for you. So you need to know that there's a variation of people who will buy from you. Because we don't want to go too small. But we also need to know that we can't sell to everyone exactly like what you said. So some people will buy once, some people will buy. They'll be raving fans that will buy all the time.

I love that visual. I've never heard what you've just described. That's such a smart way of thinking about it. You got this bright red, kind of zero, you know, right on target, dead on Target. And then you have the. All the others that. That may be just slight variations. Right. And some you could sell a lot of products to probably the more dark red, and then the ones that get lighter and more pale, you know, you're less likely. Really cool visual. So the other thing I think is super smart is getting personal with the avatar. I do this with my podcast clients. So it's like develop a listener avatar that is a singular human being that you're writing about. What is that person's name? Where do they live? How old are they? What do they watch on Netflix? What do they listen to? Like, get super granular in your case, it's like, what are their buying habits? What stores do they shop at? What do they look for? How do they price? You know, all the different factors. And I think the more granular you get, the better. Do we miss anything on niching down before we go to number two? Is there anything that's, like, super important that we share?

Well, the other side of this, and it'll come down later with offers, but it's like, again, you can't solve for everything. So just think about the client with the tall leggings. It was like, yes, there's all these needs that they need to be met. But how do we, like, hone in on the best product that. What can you be known for? Have a core product or a hero product that then will fit your customer perfectly. We've seen it over and over and over with, like, Tom Shoes or Rothy Shoes, or, you know, there's certain companies that came out that had one style with lots of variations. Or you can be a skincare company and have a regimen of five. When you all look at product businesses that exist now, you're looking at them with years and years and years behind that you didn't even know they existed for the last 20 years. So we're fast forwarding and being like, but they have all these products. Well, they are way more established. And when they started, they probably started out with one product or a couple products that were like their hit, and then they were able to build their business on top of that.

Yeah, I think the key thing that you're highlighting is it's part of it is finding that person in that niche, but the other part of it is matching it with a product, which, as you said, we'll get into that in a minute. But I. Because when I read your checklist, I was like, okay, hero products here. But then we're talking about product here. Now I'm understanding Why you bring it up early? Because you got to match the target buyer avatar with what they're going to buy. Like, that's got to be key.

Hey, hey, Product Boss. Okay, so you know that I am on a mission to empower women all over the world to build product based businesses that give them the security and freedom to build their dream business, which will also lead to the life of their dreams. So I know that I can help you do this by teaching you how to nail the core four foundational pillars of a standout business. And it's going to turn your business into something that feels like it's kind of struggling along or limping along to standing out in a crowded market and getting more customers. So I am so excited to invite you to join my free masterclass, your four step playbook to stand out in a crowded market and get more customers so that you can grow your business no matter where you sell. In just 90 minutes, I'm going to teach you the core four foundational pieces your business might be missing. How to stop wasting time and money on things that don't work and what to focus on instead. I mean, these are proven ways to build an audience that buys from you and that tells their friends about you. So what I want to do is I want to unlock what can be blocking you from growing a profitable business and how you can turn it around pretty instantly. All you have to do is come join me inside of this totally free masterclass. Head to the product boss.com/outout to get access. Again, that's the productboss.com standout. Now back to the show.

Okay, so now number two is you gotta nail the brand messaging. Talk about that.

Yes. So again, working with so many people. And now at the Product Boss, which is, we didn't get to that part, but at the Product Boss, we are a podcast and education company and I serve people worldwide with digital education on how to start and grow a product based business. So we're going through our framework here. So what I see the biggest deal is, well, actually, so they make it. That's just my framework. But usually people come up with the idea and they'll jump straight to making it. I'm going to make candles, I'm going to make jewelry, I'm going to do whatever. And then they jump to selling, but they miss the brand messaging, which is where you're at is because they don't actually know how to make it make sense to their customer why you and not someone else. So a lot of people are like, well, I have an idea for a candle company. But why would they buy my candles? Well, we got to tell them why they would buy it. And so we have to figure out how you can stand out in a crowded market, how you can stand out against the competition. It might come down to the way something's packaged. So I'm going to go back to candles because to me, I use candles as an example a lot because it's a fragrance in a vessel, the wax and the, you know, maybe someone's picking soy wax versus coconut wax versus toxic wax, whatever it is. But the idea is, is usually someone's choosing a candle based on the scent and if they like the vessel that it's in. So everybody could have a jasmine scented candle or Christmas. Everyone has like a pine scented candle. So why would they pick your candle and not someone else's? It could be because it's cheeky and funny. There's a huge company out there that's called Homestate, but basically they started off with products that smell like different places. Like what? New. Not New York City in a bad way, but you know what, like a New Yorker or like here in la, there is jasmine in it. Because if you're from la, you know that there's like jasmine everywhere. And so it's like, well, that makes. That serves people because it brings up memories through scent. And so they're going to buy that because it actually has like a scent memory to it versus there are other candles that people just liked because they came in beautiful vessels. So we have to think one about, like the product packaging and how that meets again, going back to your ideal customer and then the messaging around it so that you're not just like, hey, come buy my candles. Right? You're either known for being like one of my students, Brennan Candle Company. She sells to candle snobs. And that was us going through this brand messaging where it was like, she could just be another candle that says Brennan Candles with a scent, but actually she sells elevated scent. She'll never sell you a cookie scent or a cinnamon scent. It's always going to be this elevated scent for candle snobs. And so once we nailed that, when you nail your messaging and you start to use it for your marketing, then people know, yes, that's me or no, that's not me. And it is so okay for you to repel people. You know, we don't want to be for everybody. So I want your stuff to be so branded that you're like, yes, I want it or no, I don't and of course we have like the variations of the customers again, but it's just connecting the product you have to the end customer through your messaging.

Yes. And great point about the repelling people. Right. I think we often try to, as I think a lot of us are people pleasers who try to be all things to all people. We just, we want to make people happy. But in doing so, it's like you're missing actually a huge opportunity which you don't need to serve everyone. You don't need to sell to 8 billion people that every human being on the planet, like some people should not want it. So let's talk a little bit about like everyone goes into a space and they might be intimidated by a crowded market. And you've highlighted some ways to differentiate yourself. And I love the candle example. What other tips do you have to like stand out or separate? And then how does that show up in the brand messaging?

Yeah. So again, if you understand your ideal customer, then you should know what they need, want and desire. I think so much of the standing out in the crowded market is either you do have something that is inventive. For example, Cuffs Couture was inventive and actually very hard to sell because it was a hard thing to explain to people. I had to literally walk up to people at trade shows and pull up my wrist and be like, have you heard about Cuffs Couture? And like show them immediately that there was a pocket inside of the wrist thing that I was wearing. Right. The wrist wallet. And so sometimes it takes an education of the market to stand out. I once helped a woman who created bras for sleeping because she believed that sagging happened while you slept, but nobody knew that that was a problem. So she, even though it was a beautiful bra and it was like a beautiful website and all the things she did to it, she couldn't stand out because no one even knew she existed. So I think you need to kind of find your people and you need to speak to your people and when your messaging is on par. And the thing is, is when I had my company, when I had Cuffs, social media didn't exist the way it exists now. Right. And we didn't have, we didn't have meta ads that we have. And even email marketing was very different because we didn't have E commerce. E commerce was like a newer thing. It existed, but we were also shopping at stores, so I didn't have that connection. Now we all have that connection, whether we're going to use social media to connect deeply with our Customers whether we are going to get on the stores of shelves, the shelves of stores, if we're going to sell on Amazon. But we need to. When you use the messaging, people can read it. And it's two things. It's visual and words. Too many words people are not going to read. Let me just tell everybody. So that's not the way to do it, even on your packaging. So when we walk by packaging, the packaging has to attract a customer or not. If it looks janky, which I like to use that word because it's true, if it looks janky and looks like you did it in your basement, then people aren't going to trust the product. So I always like to tell people, I want you to look like you're a million dollar business before you have it. There's just a few tweaks we have to make because in the market that we're in. My grandma shops online now and my grandma, like is. I have to order her Uber. So let's just say like that's how easy it got for her. Right. So that the idea there is that it does need to, especially if it's visual online. If it's sitting on a store shelf, the how it's represented needs to pop out and it needs to, you know, if it's clothing and it's hanging on a hanger, fine. But if it's something that comes with a bottle or package or something, someone has to look at it and be like, yes, I want it or no, I don't. So you just have to. I think when you get clear on the messaging and the packaging and your niche, you will start to stand out because you're staying focused and you're not watering down the whole thing. And that's usually the stuff that gets people in trouble.

Yeah. And you know, people say don't judge a book by its cover, which is terrible advice because book covers actually matter. They do actually matters. So it's like, you know, actually spend some time on what it looks like and how it appears. It's interesting. You know, in reading your checklist, one of the questions you asked for this section is have you given yourself enough time to go through the market research process before you start? And the market research applies for the niche down part, but it also applies for this brand, this creating the brand messaging part. I love your story about like you, you know, shopping spaghetti, a $10,000 budget to go shop and to understand people's buying habits. But let's talk about it through the lens of brand messaging. What advice or approach should somebody use when they're doing market research, specifically looking at the branding?

Yeah, I would hack, you know, using the word hack, I would look at and I reverse engineer. So what happens is that if you're, if you are only exposed to what you're exposed. Let's go back to the Target idea. If you only shop at Target, you only know what Target wants to show you what the products are. And like, that is not a big enough pool to pull from in terms of understanding what your customers want. So one thing that I like to do is I like to look at big companies and smaller companies that exist in the world that are in the same category that I'm in. Right. So if you sell paper products, if you're selling athletic women's clothes, if you're selling jewelry and you know your price point, you know your ideal customer, go look at the other companies that exist and look at the way they're showing things, look at the way they're packaging, look at the way their photos are. Opt into their emails and get their emails and say, like, how are they speaking to the customer? What are the visuals they're showing? What's like, the flow? I do operate as an artist, like, as a younger person. I don't, you know, I'm not someone who comes up with something out of my brain and I just kind of do it. I have to be inspired by something. I have to look at a still life. I have to look at someone's face and then I can draw it. So I think in the way that I teach is, the evidence is out there. Like, success leaves clues. So let's go look at what's successful and then let's reverse engineer it and think, okay, what part of this makes sense for my customer? What doesn't? Another way for messaging is you can go look at people's bad testimonials, bad reviews, go on Amazon, Etsy, usually I think on websites, they can get rid of the bad reviews, probably. But go read. So let's say you were coming out with, I don't know, someone who does like kids play mats. And you're coming out with a kids playmat company. Go look up kids play mats and look at all the bad testimony, all the things, oh, it doesn't wash. Well, I can't machine wash it. It rips easily. Da, da, da. And then improve your product based on the things that are not doing well for someone else. And so you can start to see the stuff that you can really kind of do. And then you can highlight it and be like machine washable. Because they're all complaining that this other thing isn't machine washable. So you're going back to that. Solving it all kind of builds on itself. But you're solving a problem and then you're thinking, how do. What keywords does my ideal customer want? The other thing is, is then getting and talking to your customers. So so many people are like, I'm just gonna put it out there and hope it works. I just told one of my students to have kind of like a case study to get her best customers. She's a small business, but get her best customers and see if they'll hop on a call with her and she can gift them whatever she wants to talk to them about for free and start to ask and hear the words they're saying, record it, and then take what they're saying and reverse it back into your messaging. So I'm looking for something that's really easy to dishwash. Great. Really easy to dishwash. Right. If you say the messaging back, you just have to listen. And people don't listen enough. They're just in their heads overthinking and not listening to what their customers needs are. So then you reverse engineer it.

Gold. Gold. All of that. Love that. And it reminds me too of reading the negative reviews. I had interviewed Jordan Har Harbinger, and one of the things he does before he interviews people is he reads the negative. If they're an author, he reads the negative reviews that's been written about their book. So he could talk about some controversial topic or something that not everyone agrees with. But in the case that you're mentioning, it's like, hey, how do we take. What are pain points for this category? This particular product? How do we improve it on our end to differentiate ourselves? Love that. And then, yeah, I mean, gold. To record your own customers and hear in their own words what they say about it. So let's go into number three. Unless. Unless there's any juice left in the orange for number two. Is there anything that we. We didn't cover that we absolutely have to. And if not, we'll go into number three. Okay, let's go to number three. And it's so important. Right. You gotta nail the offer and the pricing.

Yes. So I work with a lot of makers, and they're very similar to telling you the story about my mom. My mom didn't know much about business. She was just a creat. And the beautiful thing that happened eventually for her and other people is like Etsy existed Where people could get a product up online, they didn't have to worry. My mom used to freak out about, like, you know, how do I record my taxes? Like, she actually stopped selling because she was so afraid of the business side of it all. And, you know, fortunately, she had, like, one good idea, and she would, like, push this one idea, and she didn't make all the things. So when it comes to your offer, I kind of. That was like, a little bit of an aside. But what I was saying about makers is makers got to make. And makers are like, but I'll. I'll die if I can't be creative. And then I say back to them, do you like money? Because your creativity is kind of keeping you broke. Get a hobby. Like, if you're so, like, I just need to keep making and making and making, then go get yourself a creative hobby or make Friday your random making day. But if someone's telling you if they're exchanging money with you for your goods or people keep telling you, that thing is awesome. Can you make me one? Then lean into the thing that people are telling you they want. I always bring up Juicy Couture like. Like, for my friends that remember the 90s and the juicy Couture tracksuits, The velour ones, right? Yeah. How many people owned so many of them? And those women, I had from 1997 a pair of jeans that they sold at Fred Siegel, that they were a ready to wear line. They had all these other products, but when they made those tracksuits, those tracksuits blew up. And then they had to keep making them. Trust me when I say they were probably like, do I have to look at another swatch of this fabric? Do we have to come up with another variation of these. These tracksuits? You know, I get it. But they liked money, and they ended up selling their. I don't know if it was like, 200 million, which was a lot back then. It was probably equal to a billion dollars. Now, you know, that's my math. I do. I do good math over here. So it's like, don't get, like, people get bored, but. And then they're like, why am I broke? Why am I not making money? Because your customers were buying that from you, and then you decided creatively that you were over it, and you decided to stop, but keep selling the thing that sells. So from a. An offer perspective, if we go back to what we've talked about, where we know exactly who our customer is, what their pain point is, or what their desire is, we Come up with a product offering that they. We nail our messaging. Then when we make our offer, the offer is something where I like to say, like, lean into your bestseller. So it's the 8020 rule. So you could be a jewelry line, for example, and maybe you make bracelets and rings and earrings and all the things, but maybe people keep coming to you for the necklaces, and they keep buying necklaces, and they don't buy a lot of rings. They don't buy a lot of bracelets. Maybe you sell a couple here and there, but the necklaces are the thing. Be known for your necklaces. Stop spending all your time and your money and your efforts on all the other stuff. In fact, I helped a company. Their company's called Yearly Co. And she did bangles. So her grandpa every year used to give her grandma a gold bangle for each anniversary. So she took this tradition and built a company around it. It is a genius business. And so she started off with bangles, and then she had, like, fancier ones, ones with diamonds, ones that were thicker, ones that were thinner. But when I started working with her, you know, she was a highly successful company, but she was making earrings and rings and all the other stuff, and it wasn't necessary. So, like, what if you leaned in to be known for the Bengals? You could build a beautiful business on this. She had a million dollars in the first six months, and the next year she had 2.5 million. She's got a huge company now. Now, if you look at her company, yeah, she sells the other stuff, but you know what? She's got a core. This is a genius business where people come back yearly to buy gold from you is just, man, such a good business. But if she was like, no, but I want to be a jewelry company, doing this. And she wasn't known for this, like, core offer of Bengals. And then, you know, she's $3,000 one. She's got $400 ones. Like, there's a range to them. So that's the offer. It's like either your hero product. So, like, Yearly Co really built the business. The differentiator was the Bengals. Doesn't mean she only makes one Bingle. She has variations on them. So that's like the core product offer, or so that's your hero, or you could do something like a core collection. When I bring up skincare, there's this other company I love. It's called Arcana. And when they started, they're actually out of Santa Monica. And when they started, they knew that there were, like, three Skin types, oily combo and dry. So they had their five, I think it's called the basic five. And so it was their five core products that they sold as a regimen to be used together. So they didn't go and make makeup and eyeliner and face scrubs just yet. When they first started, they started this basic five, and they. They taught that. And guess what? Every time I bought from them, I would buy all five because I needed the entire regimen. But they had the variation of the three skin types. So that's really the offer. People get so excited about making all the things. I promise you all you'll get there. But if you like money, if you want to be profitable, you have to focus on. I'm a creative. I know what it's like not to want to focus, but you have to focus. So that would be the first part of the offer.

That's amazing, and it's so true. We often get in our own way. And it's. Nintendo started like in the 1800s. They didn't get into video games till, like, the 70s. And you tell the Stanley cup story. That's a great one.

Oh, yeah. I mean, Stanley Cups, I have, like a knockoff one on my desk right now. But so Stanley's 110-year-old company, and they've existed, and people who knew Stanley knew that more of, like, camping equipment. They had their, like, standard kind of army green or kind of like a deeper green green. They sold all the different things that you could take for outdoors life. And then back, I think it was in 2017, they had come up with the Stanley Tumblr, which we know today, which Target has like, you know, they keep doing color drops. There's all this stuff happening. Target's a through line of this, of this episode.

So sponsored by Target.

Sponsored. If you call us, we're available. No. So back in 2017, they came out with this product, and it wasn't like, perfected, but there was this one blogger that was in Utah, like a Utah kind of blogger mom, that sold products that she liked and. Or talked about them and made affiliate money. And she kept talking about the Stanley mug, and she had this huge following. So the short of the long of the story is that Stanley actually approached her and said, hey, do you want to come in and buy a bunch of these mugs and sell them? And she was like, she really had to consider, do I have the money to invest in these? But it was her own exclusive sort of thing to sell them directly. And what they realized that there's this power of the influencer, especially through this. So there's this joke where they're like, oh, it's the Utah mom look, which is like, probably like how I'm dressed right now. A vest holding the Stanley mug with a crossbody Lululemon. It was. It's a very specific look. And Stanley is so cool because 110 years later, I think they were about a $90 million a year company. They just jumped to $750 million last year off of this new product that all they do are variations on the color. So they're selling it almost like a fashion accessory. It's variations. And now you're going to go look and you're gonna be like, oh, Stanley sells me containers to keep my hot soup in and things like that. Yes, they do. But they're following the model of the color drops and the fashion part of it all. But honestly, these cups are going to be the thing that sustains them. It's. The other stuff is sort of accessories to it. After they had a $750 million year.

When I heard that story, I was like, dang, man, I didn't even know. I didn't. I mean, who can't see the crazy uptick in what they've done in volume? It's like, it's, it's everywhere, right? You can't, you can't not see it. But I didn't know the backstory, I think, until I listened to you either being interviewed or on your own show. And so I loved it. And so thanks for sharing it here. So one of the things you say is, like, you gotta make your offer irresistible so that your ideal customers want to buy it. Like, what tactical tips do you have to, like, get to that irresistible? Because that's an example. The one you shared earlier was an example. But like, how do you do it? How do you get to that point?

Two of the easiest ways to do this are scarcity of time or scarcity of quantity. So if we go back to the Stanley idea, they've done collaborations with Starbucks where they did a red version of this and people wait in line early before Starbucks opens to be able to be there to buy the red mugs. And then the red, whatever, whatever. They're called the tumblers before they sell out. So Stanley could flood the market with red, but they don't, right? They have limited quantities to each Starbucks, they have the drop, and they're sold out by the end of the day. So one way that I see people creating irresistible offers is by creating scarcity of product, right? So creating demand, creating this FOMO sort of feeling, probably also having your key, like. Like influencers or people of influence, having your product talking about it, and then people feeling like, I have to get it, because when it's gone, I might not be able to get it again. So that's one of the things. There's also time scarcity. So it could be the idea of, you know, if you want to make an offer, if you want to create a promotion, like people say like 20% off for the next, you know, 24 hours on the sale is gone if you want to do a discount. But the other thing in time is like, here's the spring drop, here's the summer drop, right? You want to talk about, like, seasonal or the Easter stuff. I think there's a combo of both. Now, really what it is, if we think about, it's creating your own demand. So people come out with product and they drop it. And, you know, there's a saying, like, if a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? If a product person puts product out there to sell it and there's no one around to see it or hear it or know about it, do they even make a sale? They don't. So the idea here is that what I like for small businesses is they start to drive demand by actually kind of, you build an audience or you build a community that starts to come along the journey with you. And this doesn't, you know, this works. I think if you're a small company and you want to connect more with community around you, right? You want to connect deeper with your customers. And so you're like, oh, new colors are dropping next month. Like, get on the wait list and know. Or like, here's a sneak peek of, like, some of the things we're thinking of bringing out or vote on your favorite style, you can start to really bring them in. People are voyeuristic. They want to see behind the scenes, right? They want to see how things are made. They want to see. They want to see the stuff. So if you can kind of start to seed it and drop it. And this is what we do in digital marketing, is we kind of pre seed then and like, we create this desire, oh, brown is going to be the next color. Maybe I want something brown. And then you start getting people excited about it, and then you drop it to them. And they've been. They've been excited this whole time about it. So that's the way I think it works really well if we're going to think about online marketing and especially if you're going to use a tool like social media to really kind of connect deeply with the people, your audience. I don't care if you have a thousand people or a hundred thousand people. I have a student right now that has 1500 followers and her business makes $24 million a year. They don't matter, right? They don't matter. But she creates demand and she stands out. She sells really well on Amazon, but she, she stands out on there because she has a differentiator for her product. And she sells like undergarments, like soft undergarments, but she sells them in neutral color packs or color, but they're, they come in packs. So it solves that problem again where it's like, oh, if I'm going to buy, you know, guys have been doing this forever where it's like a five pack of underwear or kids, you know, but women, they make us buy everything individually. So she all of a sudden had like these packs that kind of solved a problem and then are also desirable for people.

Well, great. First of all, I did not know that. This is an education for me on the pack thing. And also great point going back to the, if you do the market research and you know where the pain points are, that's got to be infuriating. And I know they're also a lot more expensive. This I do know. But yeah, now she's solving a problem. She's got a great product but because she's packaging it in more of a bulk sort of purchase, people are going to crave that and want that. I also love your tip on peek behind the curtain. People love behind the scenes. They love, they love, do you document the process? They love seeing what's happening. And so all of that's a great lead into number four, which is you got to nail the marketing.

Yes, marketing is the hardest part. You know, again, it goes back to a lot of people who make product. They don't necessarily want to be front facing. They don't want to be the face of their business. And you don't have to be the face of your business, but your business does have to have some sort of personification to it. So whether you do want to be the face or you have models that represent who your customer is, if there's a big disconnect in that, then people aren't going to, they won't see themselves in it. So with marketing, again, especially my community, I asked them how many emails do you send, they're like, we don't send emails. I don't want to annoy people. You know, like I don't like emails in my inbox. So I'm not going to bother people again. I go back to do you like money? Right? Do you, Are you making a product to sell or is this a hobby? So when it comes to marketing it's kind of this omnichannel marketing. Now I have another program called Multi Stream Machine where it's the place where like you can sell in on multiple sales channels and get more eyes cuz they're already built in. So like if you sell wholesale and we teach you how to sell wholesale, then you're sitting on the shelves of stores where your ideal customer shops. So you're actually getting more eyeballs on discovery. That's how Kim Kardashian found my product for example. Or if you're selling on Amazon, who Jeff Bezos wants to sell everything to everyone, right. And so if you're on Amazon there's a built in customer base there so there's a lot of marketing they, they don't have to do. And again with Etsy, they don't have to market there because people just end up on this marketplace. But you do not own any of that. That's all kind of borrowed land. You don't own an email list, you don't have text messages, you have no way to contact them. And even if you grow your own social media again Meta has been having all sorts of issues so when it shuts down people are like, oh my God, how am I going to connect with my customer? So the idea is that we want to own our marketing channels and you have that by building an email list. You have that by having your own website. So you can always send people to your own website for traffic and whether you're going to use things like text messaging, DMs, if you're going to send out mailers because things have come back into the mail. Like I'm getting catalogs more than I used to. So yeah, so it's this omnichannel marketing of you can't just do one thing, it's multiple things that you want to do and you want it all to match. So so imagine like a hub and spokes like so the center is the offer you're making, it's the product. Okay, let's say I want to sell the five part skincare for oily skin or let's say dry skin because it was the winter and I'm like People have dry skin during the winter. So let me really push the dry skin one, because people feel like their skin is dry. Then I want your homepage of your website to show the skincare routine for dry skin. Your messaging that you put out, whether it's on social media, you're going to start to talk about, you know, dry skin, how to prevent it, tips for that. Your emails are gonna, you're gonna send out e commerce emails that are like, hey, here's an individual product for your dry skin. Here's the whole routine for your dry skin. You want all of your marketing to be around the same offer and you want to send it out to people because if they don't know it exists, they're not gonna buy it. And if you do not make it easy for them, people want you to tell them what to buy. Okay. They want you to direct them because if you're in person, they're going to ask you, well, I have a birthday present to buy for someone. What do you suggest? Or my skin is dry, what do you suggest? So they want you to tell them, well, this is what I would suggest. And so your marketing kind of has to again, show the problem. You want to agitate that problem and you want to offer them the solution. And then you want all paths to lead to that solution, and they're going to be more likely to buy from you. If your marketing is clear and directs people.

It's so true. Right? People want to be told what to do. You kind of forget that. And I think that's an important thing to remember in anything you're doing. It's like, don't be afraid to kind of like direct people and take to take action. I know we could talk endlessly about marketing, but I want to, I want to end on mindset because mindset is the unlock for everything and it's so important. So what tips do you have or what, what in your own journey did you use to help your own mindset? Whether that be something that you've invested in or something that you've done or a tactic or anything that has helped you on your own mindset journey? Because it is all roads lead back to mindset.

Yeah, I mean, remember I told you I was raised by a British mother. So they're like, keep calm, carry on. My mom has had like, like, like her parents used to shut the door and talk about problems in, like, the other room. So, you know, like, in my family, it wasn't a way to, like, we didn't get therapy, we didn't Talk to people about our problems. So I will tell you that when I was 18 and I could pay for my own therapy, I. I went into therapy. What I did though, was I one got into rooms with other people that were entrepreneurs. You are the. They say, like, you're the sum of the five people you hang out with. And if I measure my husband and my two kids and like, me, myself, and I, I don't know, it's not a big enough influence. I'm not able to think bigger. I can't see past what I know now. So one is that I joined masterminds, mastermind groups. I got business mentors and coaches. I got education. Like, like, I would buy a course or a program and understand that. Then eventually I, I hired a life coach. And so a life coach is different than a therapist. They kind of help you kind of rewire thought patterns in your brain. And so I grew up with, like, a lot of scarcity where I believe that if we make money, it's always going to disappear. We make money, it's always going to disappear. That was because my dad was a gambler, and that was sort of like, like what I picked up. Right? It wasn't normal, but because of his addiction, that was like, the problem with that. So with my life coach, I actually, I was seeing her like, once a month and then twice a month. And then the first time my business hit a million dollars, I had a panic attack. I, like, had to walk out of my house into the woods, and I found myself, like, crouching behind a rock on the ground. I was like, what is wrong with me? I finally am making money that feels like it's going to keep me safe, but I'm freaking out. And it was because my brain and my body could not hold. It could not hold. Like, this is what safety feels like, or you did it, you know? And so I actually called her and I was like, I think I need to talk to you every week. So athletes have coaches, right? They have performance coaches, they have mindset coaches. We're all doing things that are different than people in our, like, generations before us, especially women, right? There's not women. I don't have a long list of women that, that owned businesses and raised children and did all this stuff. So by exposing myself to women, especially for me, that are in business, that have seven and eight figure businesses, that have kids, that are holding that, that I have coaches that are very specific to the things I need. And then I'm constantly kind of helping myself with my own mind, My mindset my performance. So that's really what I want to bring in. You know, and I do do this with my community and on my podcast and in my programs is this idea that a lot of people, people can't. It's a luxury to be able to afford that. Right. So they can't necessarily go get a therapist right away, but we just need to get out of our own way. So I like to touch on different parts of mindset, like paying yourself, for example, or money or abundance or like what's possible for you so that people can just start to. I say it's like lifting a lid. Like, there's Oprah's glass ceiling. There's the glass ceiling when you work for other people. And then we actually have like the lowest glass ceiling. Like, think about a basement with a low ceiling. And it's terrible. A lot of us have like a really low expectation for ourselves. So I'm not saying smash the glass ceiling. That feels very hard. Just lift the lid. Just take the lid off, look up at the blue sky and think, okay, what if I just allowed anything to be possible? That first part of like anything is possible is gonna be that very first step to moving above where our current thoughts are.

Love, love, love. All of that and the fact that you have mindset embedded into the programs that you offer is so crucial, which is a great lead. And let's talk about those programs. I know Standout Society is a new one. And then of course, your signature product. Get into the details of who they serve, the impact they make, what's included in them, all that good stuff.

Yeah, thanks. So Standout Society is their brand new program that we just launched. And that's really the framework that you and I went through today. And what I saw was in Multistream Machine, we've had as our signature program forever. So I'll just quickly say that Multi Stream Machine teaches you how to get on more sales channels to double your revenue, triple, quadruple your revenue, and helps you focus in on like, again, your best product, your best offers, and to sell on multiple channels. So somebody who might be an Etsy seller that decides, like, you know, I don't want to have all my eggs in the Etsy basket. Maybe my product would be great in person at in person markets, or maybe I should start selling wholesale. I teach you many paths to profit inside of that program because I believe that we do not all. I'm not just an Amazon coach or just a wholesale coach. I believe that we all have a different path to profit based on Our life, our lifestyle, what we to happen. And so we teach wholesale direct to consumer in person markets, Amazon and then using affiliates and social inside of that program. So it's really. And I've had startups in there, I've had someone who's like $4 million business on Etsy that was like I have 4 million eggs in this basket. I need to figure out how to have my business off that platform. So that's been the thing that has generated millions of dollars worldwide for small business owners because they've learned how to finally sell and how to get in front of more eyes. And so that's multi stream Machine. But what I realized was there was like there were steps missed. So Multi stream machine teaches you how to sell more. But if you have not nailed the core things we talked about, the things that are going to make you stand out in a crowded market and they're going to help you get more customers, then you really, it's going to be very hard. You're not going to get the results you want. And so Standout Society, the new program we launched, it's like it's over eight weeks. It's like a thing that you can do easily and it's exactly what we talked about, how to nail your niche. So who are we selling to? How to nail your, your brand messaging, how to nail the offer and the pricing and then how to, to nail the marketing. Because I believe that once we do that and you understand how to stand out in that crowded market no matter what in this sea of competition, then you can sell anywhere. And so really they're beautiful programs that can be used together and, or you do standout society and then you come in a multi stream machine. But as a startup business expert, that's kind of the way that I've been like, oh, these are all the steps that they need to take to be successful. And it will happen. Like you just have to believe it will happen. And you go through the education and you'll start to see like whether you make $50,000, 100,000amillion. I have a student that makes $50,000 as a side hustle selling jewelry got to $100,000 and she's been able to buy like her son who's autistic, a bike and her daughter a pony and her mom a car. She'll buy everybody else before she buys for herself. But then that's amazing that she has a side hustle driving this kind of revenue doing all the things I just talked about.

Love it, love it. So love it. Yeah. Okay, cool. And then check out the podcast, the product boss. You're on Instagram, you're on YouTube. I'm so grateful for the time that we spent together. Let's end with this. A quote on your website is, set your life on fire. Seek those who fan your flames. Bring us home with why this is important. And a final message.

Yeah, that's a roomy quote. You know, I think that there will be people who can't be there for you or believe in you because they just are not expansive enough or they're going from their own historical stuff. Right? So we all. I'm telling you, from how I grew up to where I am today, and I told that immigrant lifestyle and all the things that anything is possible. Do not let anybody tell you that it's not. They're just coming from their own historical knowledge of what they know. Literally anything is possible. If I can do this, if my parents who came here with nothing can do this, you can do it, too. So just know that your life can be anything you dream of. And I truly believe. And that's why I've had a business since, you know, I was in fifth grade. It's like I knew that if I could grow a business, I could learn to make my own money, I could have my own opportunities and options. I could feel safe and secure, and then I could live this dream life that I thought was only for other people. So make sure you surround yourself with those people. And if it's our podcast, whether it's getting into a program, finding community, you're just look for those people and make sure they're lifting you up.

Great way to end. Thank you so much for all your wisdom and your insights. We are all grateful to. And the world is better because you're in it and so grateful for your time today.

All right, friends, I hope that you loved listening to this episode and that you gained some insight. I think there's some things that I shared in here that I've never shared before on my own show or other people's show shows, and I'm just really glad that Billie was able to allow for me to share it with my audience. Now, before you go and move on to whatever you're doing next in your day, and I'm sure you have a super busy day, but would you mind just making sure that you're following the show? Wherever you listen to podcasts, we air two episodes a week, and when you follow the show, it'll stream right into your podcast player. You don't even have to worry about it. We'll be there waiting to support you in the podcast. And if you have a done so already, I am just asking if there is a way that you could leave a review for the podcast now. It is so helpful for us to reach other product based business owners around the world. You know it as a product based business that when people leave reviews and testimonials for your products, it's just like a thank you so much moment and it helps people decide and determine whether they want to listen to the show as well. And so if you wouldn't mind leaving review for the Product Boss podcast. I read all of them and I'm just so grateful to the kind words that you leave. It's just absolutely amazing. All right, my friends, until the next one.