609. How to Blend an 8-Figure Business and Motherhood with Natalie Ellis of Bossbabe

As women are earning more and becoming more successful, what I'm not seeing is that other stuff is being taken off their plate. What I'm seeing is the load that women carry continues to get heavier and heavier and heavier. And we have this generation of really burned out women.

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into a successful business, and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams, no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Hey, friend. All right. This episode is just absolutely so incredible and so special to me because I had just a really, really special guest on and I'm so glad that you're here to listen because she is a good friend of mine and a business mentor and it is the one and the only Natalie Ellis of Boss Babe. Yes. Natalie Ellis of Boss Babe, one of the biggest communities for women business owners in the world. Okay. In the world. Now, I have been so inspired by Natalie and her ability to honor and be a mom while learning how to care for herself, how she can blend her personal life so well, all while running an eight figure business. And now she is the co founder of Glossy and if you don't know this, she's a co founder with Lori Harder and I am an investor in a fully female founded company which is Glossy. I'll drop a link into the show notes for you. If you want to get a sample pack, we've got a discount code for you and all these amazing things because it really helps you get this like glow from the inside out. But despite that, okay, let's go back to the fact that Natalie Ellis of Boss Babe is on the Product Boss podcast. This is a dream in the making and I just cannot even believe it. Now, in today's episode, we're going to dive deep into how Nadalie is able to blend business and motherhood so well, and she has so many actual tips for those of you who might be feeling overwhelmed and trying to do it all. In fact, when I decided to step into into, I'm actually in Natalie's CEO mama mastermind, and my kids are actually some of the oldest kids in that group in terms of, like, me being a mom, right? There's a lot of new moms in there. But listen, I've been a mom now for almost 12 years. And when I first started out, I wasn't comfortable. It was different, right? Back then it was different with having a baby and having clients or working for other people. And I felt like I had to really keep them apart. Right. I had to compartmentalize. It was kind of that old school way of being a woman in business and trying to be a woman in business and then be a mom on the side. And so when I found Nadalie, and what I really craved and needed this year in terms of mentorship and community and guidance was not only how to build this amazing business, right? She has an eight figure business and she has this incredible community. And we've talked about how our communities are very similar, our businesses are really similar, right? But how Natalie has been doing it so, so well. She leans into her masculine and her feminine energy. She leans into building a freedom based business. And just if you know her and you love her, you see how she just kind of floats through this world with such ease and she gives herself permission. She gives herself permission to rest and permission to go hard when she has to, all while prioritizing her family. And so it is something that's the energy that I craved so much this year. And I'm just so, so grateful to be in her orbit. And now I get to share it with you on this episode, right? We dig into all of it. So I hope you're as excited as I am. So let's dive into the show. Natalie, welcome to the Product Boss podcast.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Oh my God, I'm so excited to have you here. And you're just your podcast boss Babe and everything that you've done and you've taken over the helm of and everything, you're just so good at everything that you're doing. But if people don't know Boss Babe, which I don't know how they wouldn't, but if they don't know Boss Saver, you, would you mind just kind of introducing yourself?

Yes, I would love to. So Boss Babe is a media brand for female entrepreneurs. So we have a podcast, a newsletter membership, an accelerator program, and we have a mastermind called CEO Mama for CEO Mamas. And I am obsessed with social media. Instagram specifically, I love it. Funnels, automation systems. Like, I really love running an online business. I love digital marketing. So. So, yeah, that's a bit about us. But the thing that I would say we're most known for is probably our Instagram. We started with very sassy tongue in cheek quotes for ambitious women at a time where I feel like all the quotes out there were like men in suits. And it was very much Forbes buttoned up. And we started putting a very different spin on it. So most people, when they've heard of bossberry, have heard of that, and it kind of built itself into the brand. It is now just based on what our community wanted and needed.

Amazing. And I'm a CEO Mama, which I so appreciate because, you know, I just. We were just chatting before, and really for my generation, I feel like I really had to keep. I had to compartmentalize being a mom or being an ambitious woman in business. And I didn't feel like I could blend them all. And the blessing, I think that came out of the pandemic was that everybody was forced to blend it all. Like, do you remember the news channels where, like, there'd be the newscaster and like the kid walked in and you're.

Like, I have kids. Yeah, iconic.

And it was a guy, right? So it was like the fact that it was happening to men and to women and it was finally like this blend that we all had to really put it all together. Like the messy, but then keep going, I think allowed for it to be different. But before that, I didn't have that experience. I felt like they had to feel separate.

Yeah, I know. And that's a big reason I wanted to create CEO Mama, not because I'm an expert by any means. You know, my daughter's only two, and I'm still every week figuring out how this works, But I didn't realize how challenging I would find it. I had so much of my identity wrapped up in my ambition and my business and achievement and all the things before I had my baby. And entering into early stage motherhood, I feel like it rocked my entire being, really. It made me question, who am I? What do I care about? What are my priorities? And how do I be a really devoted mother and still run the business that I'm used to running? Because honestly, before I had my baby, I didn't think I'd want To be as present as I do want to be be. You know, I'm quite happy admitting that I thought I'd be quite fine dropping her off at a nursery, picking her up the end of the day and spending that morning and nighttime with her. And when I had her, I realized that wasn't my truth. And I could never have seen that coming. I watched friends have kids and I seen them change, and I just thought to myself, that won't be me. I know exactly who I am. I thought I had a really strong sense of who I was, and it changed everything for me. And when I was really struggling in the beginning, I just put together a really informal mastermind of friends who were also going through similar things. And it was not about any of us being experts, but more so us having a space and a place to talk about what we're going through. And it was so helpful for me. But also all the other women in there, I thought, I have to make this available to more women. And it's been incredible because what I love so much about it is there's women who have kids of all different ages. And I feel like we can offer each other so much perspective, whether it's from a business lens or a motherhood lens. Like, I can offer a lot on the business side, very little on the motherhood side or, you know, if someone's coming in with a newborn, I have that kind of person perspective. So I think women getting together generally and finding their community and having really transparent conversations, especially when it comes to motherhood and business is really, really important.

Agreed. And you know, it was interesting is that the retreat and these are all seven and eight figure business owners, right? So doing amazing things that our grandmothers and mothers even couldn't even dream of. But then I remember, like, husbands were bringing babies in and moms were nursing on the floor. Like, I remember at one point you're like, what's that sound? And we're like, oh, so and so and so was pumping. I'm so far past that. But I'm like, I love it. Like, I love that we could integrate, right? Like that it doesn't feel that it has to be so separate. And so, yeah, sure, I wish that I had it when my babies were younger, but at the same time, it's okay. And I have it now. And we may not have gotten here had we not also had the last several years and the way that things had to happen, you know, so it was pretty cool to see. And I love that, like, there are husbands waiting in the Outside the conference.

Room, I know the whole dynamic, it's like flipped. And I, I think that's really important too, because there's more bread winning women in American households, especially now, than there ever has been. And I think that is phenomenal. I think that's incredible. And at the same time, there's not a blueprint on how women can do this. Because as women are earning more and becoming more successful, what I'm not seeing is that other stuff is being taken off their plate. What I'm seeing is the load that women carry continues to get heavier and heavier and heavier. And we have this generation of really burned out women. And it's no wonder, because they're holding the financial weight for their family. They are often the default parent. They are the one that's running the household. And we all know women have a lot of capacity, but at the same time, you can really see the impact that it's having on a lot of women. And so I don't think there's this blueprint of like, here's how to do it effectively, here's how we can do this. We're all kind of in this together, learning one step at a time, and also really learning from having transparent conversations with other women. Well, a big topic in that mastermind, or just generally in conversation is like, how do you deal with being the breadwinner? How does that feel with your husband? How does your feminine and masculine dynamic work? All of the questions that, you know, we maybe aren't able to go to our parents or grandparents for advice on that I think is really important to talk about 100%.

You know, it's like one, it's that saying when you see like a dad at a grocery store and they're dealing with a baby by themselves, they're like, oh, you're such a good dad. And when it's the mom, you're like, can you quiet your child down?

Yes. I mean, it's, it's actually wild. Like, times have changed for women, not really for men.

And I'll tell you, like my husband and I told him, I was like, you are the primary parent right now. There were times where I was primary parent when my kids were younger and we were in New York for him doing Broadway and, and I was the default parent. I didn't have to be somewhere. And now it has switched probably since 2020 that I moved into being the breadwinner. And it is a different dynamic. We don't have people to model from. And like you and I were talking before, we'll see how our daughters turn out. Right.

That always makes me laugh thinking about.

That, seeing these ambitious mothers and, like, what will they end up doing? But it is this new way of being. And I think it's having, like you said, having conversations with other women. I think incorporating the thing that I actually do find a gap. And I don't know. I don't know if you see this, but it's the actual. The husband and wife. So you and I, like, I don't think our. Our husbands also haven't. At least mine hasn't had a place to kind of land into to know how to be a partner to a woman that's doing this. And does he have his group to go to? You know?

Yeah, I see a massive gap in that too. I don't necessarily think there is a place. Me and my husband are. No, we're in a tantra mastermind. It's very much communication and energetics. And that I would say has been really powerful because the couple running that mastermind, she's the breadwinner and she's super ambitious. And she's also really tapped into her feminine and they found a dynamic that works well for them. So seeing that blueprint's really helpful. And a lot of this is energetic work. So that's been really helpful. But I don't know of. And maybe people can reach out to us many places where couples can go for that support and can work together on that, because I know it also. It presents challenges for us, but it also presents challenges for husbands because they're used to, you know, in the past, their place. They knew what their place was. They knew what their contribution was. And now, you know, it's a whole generation of very independent women. And I'm sure for the men, that also. It must be really, really challenging. My husband says all the time he's like, figuring this out one day at a time. It's a lot.

Your husband's an entrepreneur too. Yeah. And it's. And they also weren't modeled it. Right. So it's sort of. And again, we're modeling it for our kids. We're kind of just paving the way forward. And each one of us is stumbling over and tripping and making mistakes, and we're kind of learning and if we share with each other. So it is. It is really interesting, kind of flipping that into becoming the breadwinner, but then holding it all. And so one of the things that I've seen. Seen with you that I've been so interested in. So my. This year for Me, I actually did want to tap back into my feminine. I think I always prided myself on the masculine energy, if that makes sense. Because I think the feminine energy for so long to me was like, weak and dependent on other people. And then one of the things that you really share is like, how can we hold both? So do you want to dig into a little bit of, like, how you can be this amazing businesswoman, a mother, and then hold both masculine and feminine?

Yeah, I think that's such a good conversation because I will also say, before I became a mother, I did associate motherhood with being in your feminine. And actually, now that I am a mother, I'm like, so much of this feels very masculine, actually. It's a lot of, you know, running things and, you know, being super vigilant, being honest, being very organized, being very structured, holding a container, especially, you know, the age my daughter, that I'm constantly holding a container for all of her emotions, and it feels like a very masculine role. So a lot of this I find to be very fluid. But learning how to be in my feminine has been really, really powerful for my relationship, because in the past, when I've been really heavily in my masculine, things in my relationship don't go so smoothly. And I would say that was definitely the first couple of years of our marriage was that whereas over the past few years, I've really learned how to be able to tap into both. The one big shift that I saw, I always associated success and work as being in masculine. And what was really interesting for me was to start to look at the parts of my work that feel really feminine, and that's the creative space. That's a lot of the ideation. That is a very feminine energy. We are life creators, whether that's human life or whether that's breathing life into our products and services that we have. So it's been really interesting for me to just to be able to acknowledge, okay, that's the energy that's needed for me in this part of. Of my life. And having a really integrated masculine is really important because it holds my team accountable. It makes sure that I'm hitting deadlines, I'm moving ahead, I have goals, things like that. So integrating it into my work was one thing, and then also integrating it into my personal life. Having that healthy masculine is really important because it helps keep the household run in a really structured way. Being in my. In my feminine more in my personal life looks a lot like being willing to receive help. When we are very independent women, it can be really easy to just want to take on everything ourselves? It's faster and easier if I do it. Oh, don't worry, I've got it. And actually, it's a lot of times a big practice for us to let go of needing to do everything or having everything done to our standard and allowing people, allowing our partners to actually support us. So let's say you're the one that earns the money. Could your partner be the one that manages the money? What did they do in the relationship that still feels like they can contribute in that way? Or if you're the one that's always managing schedules for the kids, can your partner be the one that's managing schedules for you two and your date nights and times that you spend together? You know, we have little instances of it throughout our whole day. So every single morning, my husband's the one that gets up with the baby and then also is making breakfast for me. And in the past when he tried to do things like that, I would just jump in. You know, I can help. I. I can be helpful. I saw so much of my worth tied up in how helpful I was. Whereas my practice in the last few years has been really letting him do it. I'm going to lie in bed and do absolutely nothing and feel great about that and not let the guilt or whatever it is seep in and not see my worth so tied up in the doing or like a conversation that you and I were having was about the importance of really hiring support if you can afford it. Whereas when we have a lot of our worth tied up in the doing, we're just doing, doing, doing, and we can be very much in that masculine. Whereas if you can allow yourself to have support, you can practice that receiving. I think it. It flows into a lot of different areas of your life. Does that make sense?

100%, yeah. The receiving part, I realized it's so funny. We came back, I saw you around this retreat. I was really getting into my feminine. And I get back and it was raining in la and my husband walks up to the car with an umbrella so that I don't get wet. And I was like, no, no, I'm okay.

It's like, hold on, hold on.

Thank you for being a gentleman.

Isn't it funny, though? Our default is to be like, no, I got it, I'm good. And when we see it as, oh, that makes him feel good to be able to hold the umbrella, it just switches it right away. But you're right. Like, you have to catch yourself in it.

And when you've been operating in a certain way, right? Because like we were saying, it probably, there was probably this level, at least for me, I'll say. I really rejected the quote, unquote, like, feminine when I was younger because I didn't want to be a housewife, a homemaker. Like, the things that I saw that kept my mom stuck, right? And so, you know, they had taken out. We were no longer learning how to be homemakers or how to balance a checkbook or any of that stuff. And I was like, I'm just going to go full into this. And it's interesting coming back at it now where it is that receiving and it's not a place of weakness, but rather it is a place of power to be able to accept help to receive. And it does. It, like, really just helps release, like you said, the guilt and the toll on my, like, body and my system because it starts to balance things out a little bit better.

Effy. Yeah, I completely relate to that. I definitely, probably in my early 20s, if you'd asked me what the feminine was, I would have probably said it was quite submissive. And what I've come to learn is feminine, the feminine is very powerful, and not submissive at all, but powerful in a quieter way than the masculine. The masculine might say, I want this, I'm gonna get it this way. It's very much that going out and getting it energy, whereas the feminine energy is more like you attract and you put out what you want, but it's, it's in a more energetic way. Like you said, when you came home, your husband brought the umbrella out for you. It wasn't you had to demand it or ask for it. It just kind of happened. And there's a lot of. You can really see your own power in that. And that's the real shift I had to make. Because, like, you, as someone that really wanted to be ambitious and to have a different life to what my mum had, I thought that I had to operate very much in my masculine, and I associated the feminine as being very weak and I wanted to be everything but that. Whereas when I could flip it and see, huh, maybe I could get more of what I want by being in my feminine. Now, I'm interested in not saying that's the right way to see this, but for any women that do have that perception, that is a good way to flip the script. Like, actually, you could probably like, what I noticed with my husband is I get way more when I'm in my feminine and when I have that kind of quiet power Than when I'm like, really? In my masculine, demanding, controlling way, he will repel that and will not do the things I want him to do. Whereas if I flip it a little bit, I'm going to get what I want way more frequently. So kind of effective too.

I know. I remember we were learning about it. I was like, this feels like magic, but yeah, or manipulative. I don't know. But it was like, yeah, they want to do, right? They want to give. It reminds me of the like My Big Fat Greek Wedding when she's like, men are the head, but women are the neck that turns the head. There's that saying and, and I didn't really understand, but I was like, ah. Like there is this level of that when you do step in your feminine. What I've been learning is just that it's, it can start to shift the situation and does take you out of that conflict. And then there's also like eases, you know, it's just that ease of not feeling like we have to do everything at all times and being in that energy because either one, you don't want to be too far into either. Right? It's that Ying and yang. It's that balance. Happy holidays. Okay, don't think. Jacqueline, what are you talking about? It's still warm outside. I know, but guess what? We want to get you uber prepared for this holiday season because what we want is that you can get consistent sales, right? Have steady growth and keep growing your business beyond always having to offer a discount during the holiday season to drive sales. So if you want to get prepared while it's still warm outside, you can jump in and grab 101 content ideas beyond the Holiday Discount. And it is a bundle of content prompts, tools, hashtags and templates. And it includes a three month calendar with things to say every single day from October to December. It is so helpful. So, so go out, enjoy the sunshine and feel uber prepared for the holiday season when you grab yours. Now just head to holiday contentideas.com.

Yeah, I think it's really important for us to have integrated feminine and masculine within us, whether we are men or women. I think that's really, really important because if you're all the way on the spectrum of being super in your feminine, you know, sticking to deadlines, probably really challenging, and you might have all these ideas and zero. Excuse me. And then on the other side, you might be foot on the gas 100%, but you're burning out constantly. Whereas I do feel like when you can integrate Both. It's a much healthier place to be, and it feels better on your body. So what I realize is when I go too far on my masculine side, I'm way more burned out. My hormones are not in the best place. It feels like it's just all go, go, go, and there's zero time for replenishment. And so when I am in balance, I feel better. What I will say, I have noticed keeps a lot of women stuck in the masculine. If it's their default, they find it a lot easier to do and to execute than to. To look at their. Their feminine way of being. Because it's really. I will say it's. I think it's quite deep work, and I think it will have you question a lot of things about yourself. And, you know, for women that grew up with trauma like I did, I felt like I had to be my masculine to protect myself. And there was very much this guard up over my heart. God, up over myself. If I'm the one doing, I'll always be helpful. If I'm the most helpful in the room, then I'll always be valued and I'll never be neglected.

Right.

Like, I had all of these stories and narratives running for me, and, you know, I'm never going to show all my cards because then I'm too vulnerable. And so I got to probably an unhealthy masculine where it was really so easy for me to be in that place, but it also wasn't getting me what I wanted. I wasn't getting that level of connection in my relationship. I wasn't. I feel like for women, a lot of our power is not in our head, it's in our heart. But I wasn't unlocking that. I was very much in my head. And when I've been able to drop more into my heart, into feminine leadership, I also notice I just get better results across the board. So there's a lot to be said for how powerful it can be. But I do think it's very, very confronting. And I think that's why a lot of women who do grow up with that kind of trauma find it really, really hard to do that work. And it's not an overnight shift where you say, all right, I'm going to be my feminine now. It's, oh, well, you know, Another thing I had was all my worth is tied up in my doing. And if I'm not helpful, you know, will I be abandoned? If I'm not helpful, will people think I have any value? And I had to do the work to question all of that. And that's not easy.

And it's amazing because I didn't realize how similar our stories were. And they're very similar in a lot of ways. And it's been years and years and years and each time I learn something new, I learn a new way of being. It peels it back a little bit more and it peels it back right. But it's life's work. I had this moment the other day actually where oh so crazy. My mom found. She's giving me all these like keepsakes and she found this letter that I wrote to my parents when I was 12. It was like my 12th birthday and it was such a core moment I remember in a, in a childhood wound. And it was crazy that I documented in this letter to them. I was like, so sorry. It was crazy. Yeah, I got in trouble at my 12th birthday because there was a boy. It was a whole thing. And in reading it though, I was like, wow, that was. I was able to almost have this perspective like that was a childhood wound that I've taken with me. And now that I'm 42 going on 43, the I can't believe I've carried that 12 year old's thing this whole way through. But would I have been able to see that had I not done all the work that I've been doing and tapping into different things and psychologists and life coaches and breath work and plant medicine and all the things. Right. I don't know that I would have gotten there. But it is really interesting to see, to be able to track your wounds and it's not just in my brain but it's like, oh, perspective, that was a 12 year old's thing and it's not me today's thing. So it is really interesting, I guess I want everyone to know is you and I do a lot of work, we do a lot of self work. And so how much do you think is related to your success as a woman in business? Because there's a lot of people who haven't tapped into this sort of working on themselves. They're more in the I'm going to do, I'm going to make, I'm going to sell. But they're not necessarily working on their own growth.

So I will say I think a lot of my upbringing in my childhood really supported me in my business success because being able to tap into my masculine in that way, tap into that level of drive and ambition and this desire for independence was incredibly powerful. And so in a way I wouldn't change any of my upbringing probably could have been healthier, but I wouldn't change it because it gave me this level of drive in my 20s that I didn't see many other people having and probably assuming the same thing for you. So that contributed to a lot of my success. What I will say is doing the inner work has contributed to my fulfillment and my happiness because I had a lot of success at a very young age. But I wasn't happy and I wasn't really in a place to enjoy that success. I was always onto the next, onto the next, onto the next. And I had this idea that the more successful I became, the more secure and stable it would be, right? I couldn't lose it all. I couldn't be abandoned like all of this stuff. I felt more protected, the more successful I was. I felt more valuable, the more successful I was. But internally nothing had shifted. I was still that, you know, 20 year old that was still trying to prove something that had this chip on his shoulder of like, I never fit in. And none of that changed through success or bank accounts or anything like that. Like, I remember thinking, I'll hit a certain number in my bank account now and I'll finally feel like I belong or I'll finally feel happy or I'll finally feel settled. And none of that ever happened. And I started doing really deep inner work when I was 25 with plant medicine, hypnosis, breath work. I mean, I threw the kitchen sink at it. And from there I started to take away a lot of those different layers. And it was, I mean, it's still very much ongoing work. But like you say, it's been this delayering of being able to acknowledge where certain patterns are coming from. And even the big shifts I've made in my business in the last couple of years have come from doing a lot of that work to realize it's not just about chasing the, the next arbitrary goal. It's about how do I feel doing this? Am I happy? Is this what I want? Am I taking enough time to actually enjoy what I've built? You know, is anything ever going to feel enough? Because if I'm constantly chasing and feeding this hungry ghost, nothing's ever going to feel good enough. But doing this work, I've been able to get to a place where actually I feel like I have more than enough. And everything I do now is, is beyond enough and it's above enough. And so with that, I'm a lot more discerning about what I will and won't do. What I Say yes and no to what I will launch, won't launch. You know, hitting. We hit our revenue goal earlier this year for the whole year and I decided I'm going to take the summer pretty much off. Whereas the previous version of me would have been like, well that means I can double my revenue and I would have pushed harder. So it's, it's contributed a lot to my happiness and my fulfillment, but having both has been really, really powerful. You pro I, it sounds like you've had quite a similar journey too.

Yeah, I, I agree. Like I, I wouldn't trade any of it and I think the more I work and like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, it all happened for how it should have happened and, and where I am and like my impact on trying to help women globally make their own money and always have opportunities and options and safety and security because they feel confident, empowered in community, seen that they can make their own money. And if they want to do it as a part time thing, if they want their husbands to be the breadwinners, if they want to be the breadwinners. But if they want to get divorced, they can. If they are a single mom, they can. If they never want to have a child and they want to live their best lives and go on cruises, like whatever they want to do. I just want women to feel empowered and I think that the tool is being able to make your own money because then you know, as long as you've got your needs met and then you're able to try and live the life that you imagine you can. Right. But it takes empowering yourself.

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I really feel like the biggest freedom is having the choice. And a lot of women before us didn't have the choice. So to have the choice now to decide, I want to go part time, I want to slow down, I want to get divorced, I want to do it this way. I think that is really powerful and I feel really similarly. I never want, I don't want women to have to be stuck in really toxic situations because they don't have that independence themselves when they are capable of it. And there's so many tools that can support them in getting, getting there. And you know, women have more rights now than they've ever had. So to be able to equip them with those tools I think is really, really important.

I was going through old stuff again and like my grandma, because my half, my family's from England and my grandma's passport was on my grandpa's, like it Was his base and her.

Oh, so she couldn't have her own. No.

So if she had to travel internationally. She traveled with my grandpa.

Does not blow your mind, right?

I didn't even know that blows my mind. And now she looks at me, like, during the. You know, she. When she'll come over, she's like, you work all the time.

Yeah. She must think it's wild.

Wild. And that it is just like, you know, two generations of how her daughter was and then how I am and then how my daughter is now, where she's just like. She actually. My daughter just came to me was like, mom, I want to do Slime company and I want to do it with these two partners, and I want you to have business meetings with us. And I was like, cool. Like entrepreneur, you know, in the making, you know.

Well, listen, you're clearly doing something right then, because she's still got that drive, even though she does. She has a different upbringing to what you had.

Yeah, my son. You know, it's also amazing because I know right now you just have one. But, like, your kids, when they're like, you know, chicken or the egg or like, nature versus nurture, they just come out the way they are. So my son is very different than my daughter.

I feel like that. I feel like I just came out a different way. I came out and I was like, yeah, I'm ready. I'm. I'm here. I'm a presence.

It's not getting around that 100%. So. But, yeah, I mean, I know I'm doing things right because I also know, like, when I see them act kind, you know, when you see your kid go to school, for example, kids feel safe at home, so they'll act a very certain way at home. Like, when they rage, it's because they feel safe. But then when they're at school, you know, people are like. They're polite and they're helpful or whatever. You know, you're like, okay, I've every. Is them. Right. So we're figuring it out. So I've got to. So when we talk about. You were talking about hiring before, and one of the biggest obstacles I see, people say, and we know product people are different because we have a lot of our money tied up in product and inventory, and so cash flow is different. But what would you suggest to people? Because you're, you know, they're doing it all by themselves. And they keep saying, I can't afford to hire. There's. I can't afford this. There's always that. I can't afford. So for people who are, you know, women that are listening, they're like, I am. I'm holding all of it and I'm going to break. What would your suggestion be to them? Them?

So there's an amazing book that I recommend to anyone who wants to hire support, whether it's in the home or whether it's in your business, called buy back your time by Dan Martell. It's incredible. And there's one thing he shares in that which is really important. And it's a lot of times, especially in the early stages when we hire, we make the mistake of hiring for a specific role. So we might say, I really need help with marketing. So we go and Google a marketing role and a marketing job description and we put that out there and we're like, that's what a marketing person will do. And what we haven't done is really looked at all the things that we're holding and taken things off of our plate to give to somebody else. And so one thing he talks about, which I didn't realize I had done later on when I made a lot of mistakes, was instead of just putting these generic job descriptions out there, looking at your own plate and deciding what do I want to take off my plate and making that the job description. And so it's not this clean cut, copy paste marketing manager, it's, you know, I want some support in this area and I'm going to hire specifically for that. Because a lot of times as business owners, we know that if we have more time, we can drive the business forward. We know what levers to pull, we can do that. But if we're so bogged down with doing absolutely everything, even if we hire support, we don't always find that the revenue or the profit grows. So that's one thing I would say that's an absolute, absolute, absolute game changer. And taking support in any way you can get it, I think is really important. The load that we carry, like, it's just abnormal now compared to what it used to be. It really, really is. And so if there are places you can take things off your plate, go for it. If you can do swaps with someone else, if you literally can't afford anything, do swaps with someone else. If you can ask friends and family members or your partner for more support, really being willing to ask for and receive help and then do it in a very specific way that it takes things off of your plate, I think is really important. And then taking it a step further is making sure you've done enough work on yourself to be able to have those very direct conversations with your team to hold them accountable to do the things they said they were going to do. Because I also see a lot of times people will hire and this person won't be performing, will not be really making their, their lives any easier, but they're uncomfortable having that conversation. They're uncomfortable saying, hey, you're not doing the things you said you were going to do or you're not doing the things you are hired to do. And I'm having to pick up a lot of your slack. A lot of times as a recovering people pleaser myself, you know, I would say, you know, it's fine, I don't mind, or they've got a lot on or like, no, I don't want to upset them or anything like that. And I would tiptoe around it. And I got to a certain point where I was like, I'm not willing to tiptoe around everyone all the time anymore. Like, I, I want to speak my truth and I want the people around me to hold themselves accountable. And I think that's also really important because you can have all the support in the world and if you're not being direct with them about what you want, they're not going to know and they're not going to be hitting the mark.

Yeah. So good. And I think, you know, going back to what we're talking about, masculine and feminine, it's like the masculine is like asking for what you want and being the doer and kind of like setting the standards of who's going to work for you. Right? Now, I know so many of my clients are dealing with people who operate their retail shops. It's like a nightmare in real life. Yeah. Oh, people, you know, not coming in and then they have to run the store and, you know, and feeling like slaves to the people who work for them. And they're like, well, they just decided they don't want to come in today because it's a summer Friday, so I'll have to go run the store. So I think there's that side, but then the side that we were talking about with feminine and asking for help and that receiving, it's the same idea. I think it's letting go a little bit of thinking that you're the only one that can do it all or do it the right way. And part of it is allowing for people to make mistakes and learn and to onboard or off board or teach through the whole process. But it's that receiving of help. And I think if you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh, yeah, like, it's really hard for me to ask for help or to receive help or, like, I feel like I'm going to be out of my power if I let somebody else step in. Whether you're a man, woman, whatever. I think this, you know, going from what we talked about there to where we are now, it's holding both. You know, it's having your boundaries, and then also asking and receiving, and I'm terrible at it. My husband will ask people. He'll ask our neighbors to bring our trash cans in. I'm like, how could you ask our neighbors?

Mine too. He'll ask anyone for everything.

Yeah. And I'm like, I have to pay the people. Like, that's my. That's my thing.

I can barely ring in a hotel and ask for them to, like, bring me up something that I forgot. Like, I'm learning. Yeah.

And for me, I'm just like, I feel bad asking, so I'm like, I'd rather pay and have that exchange. And then he's always calling in favors, and I'm like, how could you ask people to do that? But I think it's. It's, you know, it's learning from each other. But I just want everyone to know, like, you do it for a point by yourself, but if you want to get to that next level, you cannot.

Do it by yourself. We're very good at having control issues, I think, as entrepreneurs. And everything needs to be done our way in our time. And if you really do want to grow your business, you have to let go of everything being done your way. And you have to be open to the possibility that someone else could actually do it better. Just because they do it different doesn't mean that it's worse. And if you hire the right people, they might actually do it better than you would have ever done it. And I think that's also a really hard thing for entrepreneurs to let go of, is that idea of control or. It's always been this way, so it should be. And someone comes in with a fresh perspective. And one thing I like to tell my team is, okay, test it. Like. And I'll sometimes say, I actually disagree with this, but I want you to test it. And sometimes it comes back and they're test, like, sometimes we'll a B test subject lines. And I'm like, nope, I want this one. And they're like, cool, I'm going to a B test it, because I think mine's going to win. And if theirs comes back and they win, I'm like, okay, kudos to you. Like, I totally didn't see that. And I really appreciate that you were willing to fight me on that. I think that's really healthy in a team.

100%. So good. Oh, my gosh. I could talk to you forever. But what I want to share with everybody is how they can also listen to Boss Babe. You're crushing it over there. You have, like, incredible conversations. It is similar to how we're talking today, where it's a meld between business and life and motherhood and all the things. So would you mind sharing how they can follow you and listen to you?

Yes. We are on at the Boss Way podcast. And yeah, we talk about, I feel like every element of business, especially with the lens of motherhood and freedom and trying to do all the things and having good weeks and bad weeks.

All the weeks. We're just having weeks.

Neutral. It's neutral.

Neutral. It's just a week. Wrap that one up. Oh, my God.

I know.

All right, Nellie, thank you so much for being on the show.

Thank you for having me.

Been a game changer for me this year in terms of the shift. And you might be seeing that shift as well, right? This shift of my energy. And I really love to learn and I always continue to learn, and then I bring it back to you here in the podcast and in my programs and all the things. Now, we both are so similarly aligned in supporting women all over the world to build businesses and lives of their dreams, and we believe it's totally possible. So I hope you love the show. Let me know over on Instagram. And like I said, we're both investors and glossy. I will drop a link for you down below if you're like, I want to try it because it's just so incredible. It's a hydration packet that is, well, like, it, like, creates a glow for your skin, right? It's skin care and hydration in one. It's just such a. Such a cool product that now she's the co founder with Lori Harder on. And I know you've heard me talk about this with Lori on the show as well. So we'll drop that in. And if you haven't done so yet, would you mind leaving a review for the podfast podcast? Just pause for a sec before you move on with all the things you have to do today, if you feel called. It would mean so much to me for you to leave a review and so that I can get the feedback. I read every single one of them. And if you have anything else you want to share with me, send me a DM over on Instagram. All right, my friends, I hope you love this show, and I'll see you in the next one.