624. "I sell custom, one-of-a-kind products, but I’m struggling to make online sales- help!" | Coaching Session

I would like to solely be online. Well, I would like to be that first person, but I would also like to be the person that if a bride has a vision for a veil and they can't find it anywhere, I could do that for them.

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is.

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Hey.

Hey, product bosses. All right, well, welcome back to another awesome coaching session. And today I'm chatting with Fran of Frances Ann Vales and so glorious. So Fran initially started creating custom veils as an add on to her alterations business, but she ended up falling in love with them and now is designing veils. And that has become her new passion to help brides really reflect their vision and customization and make all of their wedding day dreams come true.

I love it.

I worked in bridal for five years and so Fran and I really connect in this episode because I get it. I get where she's coming from and her customers she's working with and all the things. So, you know, like many product bosses.

Especially those of you that are doing.

Custom and one of a kind, Brianna's really struggling with getting people to know.

That she exists right outside of the people that work with her that are local and then come work with her.

In her alteration business.

So we really need to think about.

How she can reach online customers, how more people can know that her company exists. So that's what we're going to figure out today.

Ready? All right, let's dig in. So tell me a little bit about your company. So what you sell, why your veils and what you sell are different and where you're currently selling them. And then the second part of that Question is, how are customers finding you?

So the veil company is called Frances Ann Veils, and I am selling online and face to face because I have an alterations business, too. And when the brides come in for alterations, if I notice they don't have a veil, say, hey, how about a veil? And then I put one on their head, and they cry, and we get a veil. What makes me different is I do a lot of custom work. In fact, just about everything I do is custom. Brides will come to me with their mother's dress in hand, their mother's wedding gown in hand, and say, how can I incorporate this in my wedding? And I could redesign it for them, but most of them don't want to do that. And I say, well, I can use elements from this in your veil, or they'll come to me with a request for something unusual, and I'll do that, too. So most everything is custom. I'm also in two stores, in two bridal shops, and I sell to them wholesale.

So how do people find you, though? So, like, how are they coming to you? What town are. Where are you? Where are you based? And is it local people coming to you?

I'm right outside of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and it's a little town called Conestoga. We don't have Conestoga wagons here. There are some Amish people who live up the street, but no. So I am. It's a lot of word of mouth. I have a lot of bridal shops that will say, I don't carry veils, but Fran Miller does, so go see her and get your alterations done there and get a veil. So I have that. A lot of that. And then I've had a few people find me from Instagram and order from me just virtually, you know, online, which is really neat. Like said, I. I said, you know, some of them asked for some really unusual things. Like one girl asked for a cape that had all different colors on it, and another gal wanted a certain type of floral, botanical veil. And so we picked out the colors. She sends me paint chips, and we go with it.

Okay, and then what's the difference between your Instagram Frances and veils? And then so Glorious, okay.

So Glorious focuses on alterations. And I have a lot of bridal seamstresses that follow that, too, because I wrote a book on bustles, and so they are buying the Bustle Book. It's called the Ultimate Bustle Workbook. And, yeah, and that's what I started with. I started that company in 2018 when I retired from being a school administrator. And I just thought, hey, let's see how this goes. Well, the calendar blew up and so Glorious took off. I was very fortunate. But then as time went by, I wanted to do veils, more veils, branch out and do that. And I would like to lessen the amount of alterations that I'm doing. So that's why I started Francis Ann Veils.

And when we think about the veils, because, and I was telling you that my background, actually for five years I worked in bridal and wanted to be a wedding dress designer. All the things. And I know exactly what you're saying because I'd get them fitted in the dress and the way I would sell the dress was I'd put the veil on and then that's when they would cry, right?

Yes. Or the moms cry. Everybody cries.

Yes. Somebody would cry and they'd be like, oh my God. Right. And especially there's a lot of women that like, I think sometimes are like, I don't want a veil. And then it's like, you know, the veil you put in the back, that's not like the big, you know, the blusher and all the things. So I know the customer really well. I know the thing. So what's interesting to me is wherever they're buying their dresses. So I think the thing that we need to start to hone in on is the kind of customer you want to attract. So right now you are in. You're more of a local wedding dress seamstress. Right. Because I physically have to come to you for my alterations. And so what's contingent for where you are is the, what is it like the. Oh my God. That like the means, like the average mean, like the income of the people in your neighborhood or let's say within what, like a 20 mile radius? 15 miles maybe. Right. So when we're a local company, we have to really think, okay, who's actually like, we have to think about our customers locally. The hard part about custom veils online is that she can't try it on with her dress. And that's such a big part of the experience and to choose whether it's the right veil or not. So I guess my first question to you is what size? Because this is a retirement side hustle, something you enjoy type business. It doesn't seem like you don't need it.

Right, right.

Like you don't need it for what you love to do and to keep and live this part of your life with something you love to do. I mean, I always tell my husband he's like, I just need to play the lottery to win it. I'm like, yeah, well, you have to start with tickets. And. And he's like, what would we do if I. If we won the lottery? I was like, I'd probably start another business. You know, I love it.

And really, I would take this as far as I could if I weren't drawing on my Social Security right now. And there's a limit to how much I can earn.

Right.

And, you know, my husband is very supportive, and part of me wants to say just, oh, this will pay the. The fee, you know, because you pay extra.

Well, I guess I want to know from you then, what would. If this is like. Because if you don't care about the drawing from Social Security, it's like, you're like, I could replace that in work and love it and whatever, but what would be your ideal scenario for this company? Because we can make it whatever you want it to be, and we can make it work. And it'll help me guide you in terms of coaching you in terms of which direction to go.

I would like to solely be online.

Solely be online. Okay.

Where I need. Yes. Or they can come here. I'm okay with that. I just would prefer not to. I know. I don't want to say it so horribly, but I know as I get older, being down on my knees pinning dresses.

Yeah.

It's a lot, you know, and it's a lot of peopling, too.

Do you like the creative ideas of helping the bride decide how to use aspects of vintage dresses? Or is that the thing that gets you excited?

I absolutely love that.

So, like, designing creation. But it doesn't have to be the making.

Right.

Okay. And right now you are sewing it all and doing it yourself.

Yes.

There's a lot of hand sewing.

There is. Yeah. There's a good amount. Yeah.

I've also. I didn't tell you, but I've made three wedding dresses for people. One of them was my husband's friend who was into steampunk, which I didn't know what steampunk was. Do you know what that is? Okay, so, I mean, it was a blue leather corset with, like, skirt as her wedding dress. Did that. And then I made my friend Tatiana and her sister's wedding dresses, and I was. And I. They flew me to the Dominican Republic for her sister's wedding, and I was literally still, like, I was hand sewing on the applique of the lease on the veil in the hotel room before it was insane. So. And I actually tried to make my own wedding dress. And then I remember the bridal designer that I worked for, she's like, it's actually bad omen to make your own. I have an entire story. So basically went, even though I wanted to be a wedding dress designer and I wanted a designer dress, I couldn't afford it. So I went to this like, off, like a. You could buy samples off a rack. And I bought the one my mom and grandma liked, not the one I liked. So then I locked myself in my room one night. My husband's like, where are you? Well, he wasn't my husband. Then I clipped apart my entire wedding dress with my nail. With nail scissors. Cause like, I'm just going to remake it. I'm using it as a base and I'm going to remake it. And then I had a pattern maker and she's like, yeah, yeah, I'll help you. She never helped me. So it was like literally two weeks before my wedding. I did not have a wedding dress. My friend goes, when are you going to freak out about this? I was like. So I was in downtown LA and there's like all these like random stores and I ended up walking.

It was.

It's called the alley. And I walked and there was like a. They sell canine dresses and things like that. And they happened to have wedding dresses. And there's this like, I think it was Waters and Waters. It was one of the, like, it was a knockoff designer dress. It fit me, I didn't have to hem it. And I'm only 5 3. So I was like, this is crazy. It was like kismet. And so I ended up buying my wedding dress out of a back alley in downtown la.

That sounds shady, doesn't it?

And got my veil and did all that. And I added like some things to myself. So like, I get it. Like, I know I've been in your place where I've altered, where I've helped people custom make things, I've custom made them. And you didn't even know this before you booked this call, but you know exactly the customer you're dealing with. But. But I also know the scalability part of it where we have to figure out a better business plan to scale it so that it can be online and that it does work like a way to make this work for the bride and for you. Right. Because most people don't necessarily buy things online or if they do, like you said, it's like an afterthought.

So the first thing is that we.

Need to establish the veils or the work you can do. It's almost like if we can establish you as the person who takes. People talk about you, they're like, yeah, go to Fran Miller. She'll take your grandma's whatever, she'll take your mother's whatever. Like whatever it is, you can create this idea with her and then she will figure out ways that you can use it and incorporate it. Whether it's in the veil, whether it's like the ring pillow, like there's other accessories. I think that you could help them ideate thing for, you know, a thing for the guy's pocket, whatever it is. So I think there's lots of ways. And so if people hook onto the storyline or the idea of the stories that you're going to tell about the brides and how they use things, that's the thing that, like whether you have a loss and like you lost your parent, your dad, your mom, you had a grandparent that you wanted to incorporate. Those stories are, are heartfelt. They're sad stories, but they're heartfelt. Then there's the ones where it's like, I don't want to wear my mom's wedding dress, but I want to incorporate part of it. And she said I could cut it up. I want that built into my dress. I used to sew in blue ribbon, like blue into the inside of the wedding dresses. So they had their something blue. Right. So there's like little things like that. So there's so many beautiful, creative things. And what's going to sell people buying from you is actually going to be the stories and the shared stories. And that's the heartstring part. So they're not even going to be able to deny that. They're not just going to go buy a random veil on Amazon, which is bonkers.

So are you seeing what I'm doing here? Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

Right.

So the first thing you need to.

Do when wanting to sell online, well.

You need to establish yourself as a business in the online space, especially if you're selling custom or one of a kind products. So what makes you and your products stand out? That's a question to ask yourself. What is it that makes you stand out? And what is going to make people talk about you and your business?

Right.

We need to stand out in a crowded market. And the other question to ask yourself, it's what's going to make customers refer other people to you? So for Fran and her veils, she's going to do that through how she creates the, the veils and the stories related to the creation behind those custom pieces.

Why?

Because people will buy and talk about things that make them feel or hold on to something that's like a special.

Place in their heart.

Or people like stories and memories.

Right.

They always say stories sell. And more than that, you know, the thing here is that we need people.

To see the product and connect with.

The product that you're selling so that they'll want to buy them. And so that's really why you need.

To figure out what will make your customers relate to your products. Right.

How are you going to stand on.

A credit market and how are you going to pull them in? So let's now see if we can determine who Fran's ideal customer is and.

How she can connect with her.

But we also have to then establish the customer that can afford this. So the wedding dresses that I used to sell were 5 to $10,000. It was custom and it was Beverly Hills when I was looking at wedding dresses. And at that point I couldn't afford these dresses. They were also 5, 10, 15,000 like the designer dresses I wanted. I think you mentioned in your intake form that your, your customers are selling or buying maybe $2,000 plus dresses. So it's thinking, are they the David's bridal customer? Because probably that's not your customer. Right. So where is she buying her dress? Is she going into New York City and going to the designer? Like what, what is she doing?

Some of them are going to New York, some are going to some, some what we call high end shops here in Lancaster.

Do you know what dresses they're buying?

Yes, yes.

Who's it coming from?

The Monique Lillier, Lotta Sottero, which is that mid high range, some beholden, which is the Anthropologie brand. And then I get some that of course the names escape me right now that are pretty up there, good $5,000 dress. So yeah. But I would say the average cost of a gown here is about 3,000 is what I'm getting.

So then the next question is, why aren't they buying, like, why aren't they buying the Monique Lulier veil to go with it? Cause I know a lot of times too, it's like you're matching the tone of the dress or there's like a custom veil. Do you know why they're not buying to go with their dresses?

Because those veils will start at like 1200, $1300. So they will believe that they can get exactly what they want from me and they'll pay about 500 to maybe 1,000, depending on what they get on it.

Okay. And because also same thing, same place. My best friend, when she got married, I helped her pick her dress out. We were at the dress store and they were trying to sell her the beaded belts and they were $800,000. I was like, no, no, come downtown, I'll buy the trim and I'll make it for you, right?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, the cost is kind of low.

So yeah, so there are definitely ways or like the hair accessories and things like that. So there are definitely ways to get them cheaper. But we also have to think. So that's the, that's the place I want you to think about. Are we trying to compete that they don't get the veil from Monique Lulier and you're a cheaper version of it? Or is it the story that they're going to be willing to pay anything to have, you know, this amazing, magnificent veil? The. Are you profitable on these 500 to thousand dollars bills? Like if you. And what I want you to think about is all the back and forth is you have to charge for your hours of the back and forth, the cutting, the probably insurance that needs to. You may not have insurance, but the sign their life away. You're sending me your mom's dress, I'm gonna cut it up situation and then your labor. So I would like to replace your labor eventually down the line where you're not the one making it all. But so I want you to think if I were to hire someone, as if I were to hire one or two sewers that were doing it for me, and instead you were doing the creative process and they were doing it like what that hourly would be.

So I guess my question is, is.

The amount that you charge them, are you making enough money as a profit margin?

I am. I was. When I went to New York Bridal Fashion Week last year and joined a show to show my veils and sell them wholesale. We had like a little, we like training courses. And one of them was on pricing. And that really opened my eyes because I thought, oh, it's just I'm buying tool and a comb and thread, you know. And then they're like, well, how much are you charging per hour for yourself? And what about advertising and what about the travel to go to places to source materials or your time in sourcing materials? And so when I figured it out, I thought I was, I was in the right ballpark, maybe a little low. So I made the prices a little higher. And again no one is really blinking at them.

No. Yeah, but I just want to make sure it's profitable to you. So just going to give a scenario because I, I and my MSM students know that like, I go deeper into the formula, but on the podcast, I kind of share a general. Okay, so whatever your cost of goods are. So that would be the tool, the comb, it would include labor. So cutting, sewing, packaging, like things that for one unit it costs to make, you would at least double it. And that would technically get you to your wholesale retail is doubling it again. Now I have more of a detailed formula.

It's.

The numbers are slightly different, but if I could give everybody just the two times two formula, like at least I know it'll get you closer. So including labor, are you like cost of goods plus labor times two, times two to what they're paying? Right?

Yes, because. Yeah, because what I had learned was times three.

Great.

Yeah.

I mean, you're doing that. No, don't. It's what the market will bear. So if you like, it's. We can buy a gold bracelet from. We could buy solid gold. And a name is going to charge X amount more. Like if you buy a Cartier or Tiffany's bracelet, it's still gold, old. It's just you're paying for the name. So. All right. I just want to make sure. In the right margins.

Ballpark, I believe I am.

Okay, great. Perfect. So the next question for you is that do you want to be known as the place that you take not old stuff, but stuff that's of value to them and then you remake it into something custom or do you want to just be like, hey, you need a veil, I'll make you a veil with new material.

Right. Well, I would like to be that first person, but I would also like to be the person that if a bride has a vision for a veil and they can't find it anywhere, I could do that for them.

Okay, so that's. And again, that's more custom sourcing. So that's like going into the city. That's, you know, that's finding the materials and back and forth. So some of I do want to just make sure that you're always going back to your time and that for the design work that you are getting paid a good, like sewing, we could pay someone $20 an hour to sew. That's not the, like the high dollar amount work which you as the designer, as the visionary, as the creative, that's a very specific thing that does have a higher value to it. So a lot of times I'll coach people either especially for custom work like this, either have like a flat rate. Okay. So the design process, you know, is going to cost, I don't know, 150 bucks. Because you know it's going to take you two hours and you want to charge 75 an hour or something. You don't have to tell her I'm 75 an hour. But I want you to just build it in so materials and all that. But then the back and forth and like you said the sourcing because you might have. The other thing you might do is like it comes with two revisions, every revision after cost extra because we know we have really indecisive people. Or the wind blows them in a different way or they get an opinion and they end up cutting up their whole wedding dress with nail scissors. Could be me or someone who's like, yeah, easy, you nailed it the first time. Fran, I love it. Let's do it. So it's just making sure that you're paid for the. It's like hiring an interior designer. It's hiring a custom person for something really special. So that's another part that I just want to make sure you're paid for. Okay, so then the next part is really positioning you as again, it's positioning the stories and it's positioning the value and it's attracting the bride that is going to pay you for a custom veil. And that's the online part of it all where I'm looking at your Frances veil's Instagram. But what's going to a reason why people are gonna. So the reason I'm also talking about Instagram or potentially TikTok for you is typically brides are a certain age. So the struggle for you is going to be that you're gonna need to be where the younger bride age people are. In terms of your marketing, if you wanna do organic type viral marketing, you can always do ads, which I don't necessarily think you should do right now because it's not a scale, it's not scalable for ads. So it's gonna need to be like you're the place that people talk about. Or they're like, oh my God, would you get that? And they're like, oh my God, Fran Miller, like she's online. Here's her Instagram, here's her TikTok, here's whatever. The second thing is is like you can always become a vendor on things like the knot or like pitch people to do that for you or you can approach event Planners, like wedding event planners. And you let them know about your service.

I have a few, actually, I have three in the area who deal with high end brides and they send people to me often.

Great. So we need that in West Palm beach, like probably Florida. Like you want to, I want you to think of cities. So your first job is, one of your jobs is going to be where is my ideal customer living? Where is the money? Like you could do tri state area, like Connecticut, Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey. Find like the towns that have the revenue or the median, the household income is somebody who would be buying a $5,000 dress, a thousand dollar veil and they're having a wedding of what? Like how much is that wedding costing them? Right? Probably not the million dollar wedding, probably not because they're probably flying to Italy and getting their dress done, you know, specifically. But it's the, it's someone who's probably more well to do that can afford this. And so if you can find the towns so that the places that you're going to find your customers are going to be through event planners, through wedding event spaces. Right. Shops. So I want you to think, where is my ideal customer? And it doesn't have to be social. Like social is a secondary part of this. And I see that you're, you know, you're working on and building it, but you can also be word of mouth, which you know is like a very easy way. And what we need is we need the people who are hiring the planner. And the planner's like, yeah, let me help you from start to finish. And then you can see, you know, they're gonna know, like, oh, this person's really nostalgic. There's this amazing person who does these amazing veils or can take, you know, your grandma's, whatever and turn it into this. And then you're the referral point for them. So that's your first expansion point. Do you have any questions about any of that?

So like right off the top of my head, I can think of a town where my sister lives, Leesburg, Virginia, where her daughter's wedding was like three, four times what my daughter's wedding cost. Now it was like seven years ago when my daughter got married. But you know, my niece got married last year and, and it was, you know, it was bougie, it was nice. And I thought, I did make her veil, by the way. And I thought, well, if I could get more customers here. So if I identify those towns, then do I identify the planners in those towns? Is that what you're Saying yes. Okay, Just wanted to clarify that.

And you can think about, like, wedding venues, too. So what you really need to spend more time on is really getting. And I know you're in the industry, but, like, what are we? Like, Pinterest is a great research tool because women who get married will go on Pinterest and they're pinning entire boards. What their showers are going to look like, what their wedding are going to look like. They start to think about their flowers. And so really you can find a lot of. And then also what the trendy location is. So there's going to be tropical weddings. So you might be like, yeah, my. My brides get married at the Four Seasons. Or I was looking at this place called, like, the Rock House in Jamaica. Right. Like, and the way that I found these places to get married at was that I went on things like the Knot. So, for example, that this is a long time ago, so things might have changed, but I wanted to get married in la and I was looking at venues. And so there's in Malibu, there's like, Calamingos Ranch. That's like a really good. I ended up getting married at this place called the Smog Shop, which was like an old car garage that they. They created, like, this cool, like, indoor outdoor space, whatever. And it was really cool. And I found that because I was looking up places. So if you go, like, LA Brides, you know, maybe certain towns in the Carolinas. I know you were talking about your sisters, and it's a very, very small town. I actually think I want you to look more at the bigger towns because when you live in a small town, you drive into the city a lot of times. So I flew to New York to look at wedding dresses and I did la. So they're going to go probably to, like, the bigger city part anyways. So, like, I would look to, like, the big, like, again, like I said, West Palm Beach, Miami, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco. Pick these, like, bigger cities first and find, like, the. The. The places that your bride would get married at. So that would be the events places you could look up best event planners in la. Or, you know, you could go on the Knot, like, do all this research. And what I'd like you to do is I'd like you to make a dream 100 list. Okay. And you can do this for everything we talk about. So it could be a Dream 100 list of event planners. It could be a Dream 100 list of locations. So I want you to think about who the tastemakers are and Also, it could be of the bridal shops. So who the. Who the tastemakers are are the places that your ideal customer would go to, and those people are the technical influencers of the bride. So she's doing her own research, she's following certain social media accounts, she's on Pinterest, she's looking and she's like, oh, my God, I want a wedding just like so and so. So you're going to need to be aware of that. And then you're going to look for event planners. And again, it might not be top tier, and I might not be like the Mindy Weiss who plans like the Kardashian weddings. Right. But it might be like, you know, the tier of, like, normal people weddings, probably normal people, wealthier weddings. And so if you do a Dream 100 list of everything you're looking for, you're going to have a hundred places to contact of each one. And I know that feels overwhelming. So start with the one that most motivates you first. So if you're like, I want to look up 100 planners, maybe start with, I'm going to look up 10 cities in America, and I'm going to find 10 planners for every city and I'm going to start to contact them. And so that gives you a hundred. A hundred people to contact across 10 different cities and then block it out for yourself. I'm going to do this over the next 10 days. So I'm going to do 10 a day, right? And then you might say, then for the 10 days after that, I'm going to contact 10 a day. You can choose your spacing of time of, like, how long you want to do it. But I would just break it down because that's where the overwhelm comes. And I would just say, okay, I want to get a hundred. I'm going to break it over this amount of days, I'm going to find this information and do it, and then over this amount of days, I'm going to contact them. So first part for you is going to be a lot of, like, it's going to be the creative of, like, who's a tastemaker and influencer to brides in this day and age, finding their information and then eventually contacting them. Okay, that's going to start giving you the leads that you're looking for.

So do you see where I led Fran here? We started off with really narrowing in on the type of customer she wants to attract, because she needs to know specifically who she's selling to. Remember, if you're Selling to everyone, you're actually, actually selling to no one.

I know.

Let me say that again. If you're selling to everyone, you're selling to no one. So after figuring that out, then you can see how Fran and I started peeling back the layers on how she can specifically find an appeal to her ideal customers. And since Fran is creating custom and one of a kind products for brides who are typically of a certain age, she can go use Instagram or TikTok.

Or maybe even Pinterest.

But one of her biggest areas for expansion could actually be reaching out to wedding event planners in areas where her.

Ideal customers are located to become like a referral source. So I say that because a lot.

Of times our brains go straight to social.

And yes, Fran can do that, but at the same time, there might be an easier lever to pull here.

Going to actual influencers of weddings would be a wedding planner, right? They are influencing the bride and the choices that she makes.

Those are the original influencers.

So in France case, her best opportunity is going to be making those connections with others who are serving her ideal customer and they will then recommend her products to them. I don't want you to underestimate the power of partnerships and word of mouth referrals because that's what's going to increase the awareness of your brand, right? That's what's going to drive new traffic to your website. You can't do it all. So let's let other people talk about our businesses. So now I want to figure out how Fran can start to create the same experience that she has in person with brides and the people who come into her to have their dresses tailored.

And now I want to figure out.

How we can do this online.

Hey, product boss.

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The second part is how do you do this online? So you have lots of different ways that you can do this. With bridal shops, you could send them the same way that like a wedding dress designer does. You might have like versions that go to them that they can try on and then they place an order with them. Or it could be a referral point. What I do think you may need to do is do you know the brand? Warby Parker, the glasses. So they started as a place where you could try on as many glasses as you want online. Because what they were trying to do is they were trying to disrupt the industry in the way that usually to get glasses and you wear glasses, I wear glasses. You have to go into a glasses shop, right? Like the optometrist or lenscrafters or whatever. You have to try on all the lenses, you have to be there. Lens crafters disrupted the industry originally because they're like lenses in an hour, right? And they could get your stuff done in an hour. Warby Parker was like, okay, how about the people who don't want to leave their house that have their prescription, they want new glasses. And they truthfully were going for like the younger because when they first started they were doing like college campuses. They were going for like the younger millennial that could transition to buying their glasses online. And so you could go on and you could order as many glasses you want to try on at home and then send them back. Now I think it's like five pairs, maybe max, you can try on. You try em on and then you send em back and then they'll put your prescription in like on the one you wanna try. So you may consider a version of this if you wanna sell online. She's going to need to try the veil on, most likely with her dress. So in the customization part of it all, I probably should pay you a deposit to help Me start with the design and then it's like, okay, great. Do you want, you know, to your fingertips? Do you want a short veil? Do you want a blusher? Do you not want. Do you want like a long, like cathedral veil? What do you want? I don't know. Okay, well, let me seeing with your address. It could be one of these three. Then you could do a thing where you send them the samples. You send her some sample veils. She tries them on. You could do a zoom fitting, like where she tries them on. She could have the dress on. She could take it to her dress fitting. If her dress is like at a store. And then she can tell you, I want to pick 1, 2, or 3. You're like, great. Now we know like the length of the veil, she returns it to you. So you send it with like a return label. Luckily, it's super lightweight. So shove them in a bag and send them back and you steam them out again. And then she picks it and then you move into the design, whether you do an illustration for her or whatever. And then she's picked it. So what you have to do is you have to think through the problems of the reason it works when they come into the store is because they can try it on. We can do the whole fitting together and they could try the veils. To sell something online, we have to recreate that in person experience in an online way. So I would look at places like a Warby Parker, or there's places where you can rent clothes or you can try it on before you buy sort of thing. And so I want you to think about these online ways of getting them the product to try so that you can solve. They're not. They're not flying the Pennsylvania, all of them for the custom veils, right?

No.

Yeah. So we have to come up with a solution if you want to scale online for that part. What did you hear me say that either you would like to try. Do you have any questions? Or you're like, that's not going to work?

Because no, I like the idea of shipping some out and seeing what they like. I'm also thinking some once in a while, like, I have a shop that someone will send me a picture of themselves in a dress and they have a veil on because the shop has like three veils for them to put on so they can have that bridal moment, you know, but the veils are not really for sale. So I'm wondering, do shops have these veils already in their. In their possession? And the bride just says, oh yeah, I like that length, but I don't know what to put on it. Yeah, yeah.

I think there's lots of ways.

I do like the idea of sending some for them to try on and then getting back to me and then we have a face to face meeting. Or not have as many zooms as we need to with brides in order to figure out what we want. Because I want them to be happy.

I know you say that, but I want you to get paid for it.

I know.

Because if you're going to scale this, you're going to run out of hours, right?

Yes, that's right. We're not going to do that.

No. Or you get paid well for it. Right. And you know that you're like, oh, I can take 10 brides a month because I spend X amount of hours, but I'm getting the money I want to make.

Exactly right. Yeah.

So I think it's two ways. So one is I find you online, I find you on Pinterest, I find you on Instagram or TikTok. And I'm like, hey, Fran, I've got this dress. I really want to do it. I want to buy, like, can you do a veil? Yeah, I can. I think there's the. You having enough on hand that you can send out as samples with return labels and they have to like give you a credit. You know, like things have to get returned. So you can charge them. Like you can say like these are worth each 150, $200. They're not returned. You know, I charge your card or if they're damaged. And then from a bridal shop perspective, it's the same idea as you're talking and trying to get in on these bridal shops. I think one, you're like, there's a referral fee. So if you refer people to me, then for every veil I make, I pay out 150 bucks. I pay out a hundred dollars a veil, like whatever it is. Like you can. And also alteration places too, for example. And then you'll ask them, do you carry sample veils for them to try on? If you do, great, here's the process. You can have them try them on, then they can contact me and I can do custom and then I'll give you the referral fee. So they want to refer you out. Or they're like, oh yeah, we don't have any veils. You might be like, great, let me send you my three best styles with like how to work with me. I cut in a hundred bucks or whatever the deal Is prevail. You can make it a flat fee. Don't make it like a percentage of what you're charging them. Just make it an easy referral fee. And then so I think you just choose how you want to work in that way. And it'll just be based on the individual, like, partnership you have with that bridal store alter alterations place. How does that feel?

That feels good. It does feel good. Yeah.

Okay, so this is like the problem solving of how do we scale this, like, customized business? I think the second part, so I think the two hooks you can make is you could say custom bales, but I don't know what that means. So there might be a way for you to lean into. You could have like off, not off the rack veils, but like special veils that you feel like. Like the one that you have with the ruched fabric at the end, right?

Yes, the ruffle veil.

Yeah, the ruffle veil. Very cool. Right. So there could be stuff like that where it's not necessarily custom. Like, they can customize the length, but you might be known for the ruffle veil. Oh, my God. Where'd you get the ruffle veil? Like, oh, yeah. Fran Miller makes these ruffle veils. They're awesome. The lace edge, you know, usually the lace matches to, like, the dress, whatever, like. And that could be the secondary part. But I do think that there's this. And tell me, the people who are coming to you, they want the custom where you're finding all the new materials or are they really more so wanting things made from something old?

They want things added or made or they saw something online and they're just afraid to buy it online.

Okay.

From that person. Because the reviews are bad. Because there's a few people out there that are selling these for really inexpensive. But when you read the reviews, you're like, okay, that's why.

Are you. Are you in any of my courses or programs?

No, not yet. No.

Okay. If I were to prescribe one to you, I think standout society would be the best one for you right now. And the reason I say that is foundationally. I think it will really help you figure out who your audience is. Neil, your customer, really serve her. We do this whole customer. We really hone in on who she is and what her problem is and how we solve it. Then we work on your brand. So really establishing what Fran Miller is going to be known for and how it's perceived. We talk about launching. So how to create this launch plan and marketing, how to market. So I do think this because you've got the, you're not necessarily needing right now to sell wholesale and stuff. It's a little bit different your path. And so I think this foundational part, because the part that right now you can do anything for anyone. But what I really want you to hone in on is what you can be known for. So people are like, call Fran for. If it's too many things, then we're just, we're not like becoming really good at one thing. Like Monique Lulier and I interviewed with her back in the day. She, she wanted to be a wedding dress designer. Like that's all she did was wedding dresses and they were the high end custom. She ended up doing her ready to wear. She ended up doing her like lower level Monique Lulier. She ended up doing her bridesmaids dresses. All of that was like years and years and years into her business. But it wasn't because she did it all. But when she established her name and it was like actually this coveted thing like, oh my God, you're wearing a Monique Lulier dress the same way that Vera Wang was when she started. It's like. And then she was able to trickle it down. So I really want you to establish like, oh my gosh, is that a Fran Miller or Fran Miller is the one you go to for what?

Right, yeah, that's, that's what I would like to see right now on my Frances Sandvale's website. There are three different things you can do. One is like the shorty collection. Those are like bachelorette party veils and whatever. That's like a little add on. And then the other is the classic collection which is like that's where I'll sell my ruffle veil. Or just that some girls just want a really soft veil and plain because they're just going to wear it down the aisle and that's it. And. Or a little, a little drop veil, you know, something short.

How does the shorty veil do?

Right now? Not good. I was considering taking that down. But my wholesale, my two wholesale shops will say to me, yeah, that's an add on for us.

Yeah, to me it's like something she's gonna wear like the after party and shakes the veil off or she's gonna wear it to her bachelorette.

Like the, the COVID picture for that on my site is a gal that, she's a professional cheerleader dancer and she wore that fancy jumpsuit to her reception and she put the bow in and, and that's the kind of person who will do that.

Okay, I Think that that side's not necessary because I think it actually the picture you have of her wearing it, I think it's gorgeous. There's like the styled photo in the front with the girl being tossed back by the groom, but I think there. And the girl you have photographed in this, she's very hip and cool, but it actually is calling on a different type of bride. The way that she's styled in this, she's more of the kind of like alternative. She's got a tattoo. Like it's, it's a certain look, but she doesn't represent the what your classic, like what your home images look like are very like you said they are. You said design a veil that would become an heirloom. The visual representation doesn't feel heirloom. It feels more like, oh, quick cheap veil I can get for something extra. It's like you said, it's like an add on versus the photo up front of the bride being dipped by the groom. Feels like that expensive wedding. And it's like, oh, I can also get like a short, short one. And if you could make them look like the one where she is being dipped and it feels, there's like the, the ribbon up top and it feels really high end. It makes sense as me not only buying the one custom veil from you but like adding on that shorter one. So I do think it's more of an add on and I don't think it should be your like main like pick shorty or classic. I think your classics, it really should be classic or take it like custom because classic is more an off the rack situation. Like it's designed. I don't have to do anything. I can order ruffles. You get the details that you need from me. So I think that when I land on your page, I think it should be more of like what do you really want to sell here? So I think you want to sell the classics which are like off the shelf. They're your designs. You're like, this is what I imagine. And people are like, this is beautiful. And then the second one is create the custom veil. And instead of let's create a custom veil. It's it. The languaging just might need to change a bit to like either you're like. Cause you have the first part is ready to wear in custom veils that are individual as you are not every woman knows what ready to wear means. So. And then the next part is design a veil that will become an heirloom. So giving a lot of different versions. So I'd love for you to do some market research in terms of like other websites that exist that, you know, could be really. She wants to envision herself. She like, you're not selling the veil. You're selling her what she visions for herself for her wedding. You're selling her what she aspires for. And so the website needs to represent what she aspires to be, which that groom dipping the bride is just like, yeah, like, that's like after the wedding, they're so happy, they're in love. Like, yes, like, we did it. And then there's the like presentation of her walking down the aisle that like when you first see the bride. So I think that the website. I like the classic collection for you. It doesn't have to be called classic. It could be. And I would really. You only have, you know, if it's Frances Ann, I'd be like, Frances Ann collection. And then there's like, then it could be like the design avail that will become an heirloom and then that's like a secondary choice and that's where they can choose and then customize. You can work with it and you can go through your process there. So those would be the ways that I would like clean up the site to start. I'd probably also give them more information. So I just want you to look to this goes back to again, like market research, which we do in standout society, but which is why I think it'll actually be really helpful for you. You will go in and you'll find competitors that sell veils that are more established, not Etsy people, but like more established companies. And you'll see what their product descriptions look like, the types of photos they're using. You know, there's all these like other things you can look at that then will like just kind of leave breadcrumbs of like how you can update yours. Did you catch that? Did you catch how Fran is going to be able to scale her online sales? Okay, so it's actually twofold. Her first part is to offer to send sample veils to those who are.

Interested in purchasing so they can experience parts of the veils in person and do a zoom fitting.

Right.

This is like an alternative way that.

You could really think, how do I.

Take that in person experience and make it happen online?

Now the second thing she could potentially.

Do is to create a website and an online experience that allows her ideal.

Customer to see the vision she has.

For her veil at her wedding coming true. So how do you do that?

Well, you do that by honing in.

On what you're good at and known for and then placing this products on your homepage so people can actually know exactly what they can purchase from you.

Right. When they land on your website, do.

They know what you sell? So for Fran, her classic collection is.

Her kind of like bread and butter.

Off the shelf, the things that she can sell. Then the other thing she does really well and she stands out with is her custom veils that she offers. So when she combines the two and she shows it to the customer that lands on that website, then she's going to replicate that in person person experience.

In a way that could be a virtual setting. Right.

And that might bring up that same.

Feeling and the same emotions that her.

Customers might have face to face or at least a feeling that's similar to it.

And that's exactly what you want your.

Customers to experience when they're shopping online for your products.

Okay, so action, action steps. You ready? Okay. So a lot of this is really to clean things up because as much as we want to sell, we have to get clear on some of this like foundational stuff. So one of your questions was, where should I sell my veils? Should I be selling the veils on my website or on Instagram Shop or Etsy, which I really want to avoid. Don't do anything that doesn't feel aligned with you. What I just gave you this entire strategy. You can sell 10 veils by just contacting 10 people and them getting one client for you. Right. So if you don't want to sell Etsy, don't sell Etsy. If you do want to do it as like an initial part where you start to be discovered, you could do it as like a lead gen type thing because they bring in the customers and people might be looking for it there. And you could put a few on there if you want as like a lead generation. But it doesn't need to be that you're going to build your entire business there or that you're going to figure out ways to get them to your website. Okay. How do you feel about social media? Do you enjoy it? You do? Okay.

If you go on the so glorious site, which has been around for a good five years now, you'll see I really enjoy doing the reels and being creative with them. And you know, there's like a funny side, my personality I like to put on there, you know?

Yeah, well, that's what I saw like you on so Glorious. You have more followers than on the veil company. There's a little Bit of like, I don't know if you need the two. I'm truthfully, I wonder if you need both accounts or if so Glorious can turn back. Can turn into the veils or you lean into one more than the other. So it looks like what you are posting on so Glorious is attracting people. Like you sewing that Scrunchie got 11,000 people viewing it or putting in the back, like got 63,000 people like to watch things being made. So even if so Glorious, if there was either a way to like change the name and just use that account or you start doing what you were doing on so Glorious and you send people over to Frances Ann Bales, it's like you might want to pick one or the other to grow.

See, the purpose for each is different. And so. And so whenever I post a veil thing, I've been cross posting.

Yeah, it looks like that. Yeah.

And should I continue to do that or.

Yeah. Sometimes I feel like the algorithm is weird and it doesn't give it as much play. But you do have a lot of play and I see it posted like the scrunchies on both. So here's another thing for you to do. Same idea. I want you to look for social accounts that have the same customer and what they're posting. If it's another Vail company, not like Monique Lulier is going to post basically a beautiful visual lookbook, it's not going to be those brands. It's going to be people who are really growing this, like, audience. Because people are voyeuristic. They're dreaming of their. Their future, like wedding. They are following because they are getting married and they want to know stuff. Or you're like, this is a bridal event designer. Like people who are architects or interior designers, they will post other people's work. Because people who are following interior designers are looking for inspiration. So they'll even just repost another designer stuff, being like, I love this hallway. So you can use content that is. And I talk about this in standard society too, like the ABCs of content, which is attract, bond and convert content. So you're going to need more attract content which is casting the wide net. That's like, I follow, you know, Frances Ann Bales because I plan on getting married, I dream of getting married, I am getting married and I want inspiration of some sort. Because it doesn't matter. If they want to watch you sew something and put it together, they can. And that's a bit of viral, but we really want to attract the right customers. The bond is where they're going to look at your content and be like, oh, yeah, I belong here. She's my vibe. The brides are my vibe. You're posting. It could be posting making stuff. It could be posting sneak peeks of other people stories like this person took her grandma's handkerchief and sewed it inside and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's the bond. They get to trust you. And then the convert content, which is a little bit less, is the new veil dropped, beaded veil sale on custom or get your orders in by this date. September's a big wedding month, so it's like, you probably were pretty busy. So it's like booking out for the fall weddings, you know? So that would be my way of you thinking about content for social to start to pull forward the right people following you. Cause we just want the right people following you. We don't want everybody.

Yeah, no, I think that's great. It's really helpful. Super helpful.

Okay, so found. It's a. It's a bunch of foundational work. And I think you can easily, once you get clear on this. Cause you're like, I would like to have 10 brides. I just want you to think, 10 brides for what month? Like, what wedding months do you want to do it? What do you want to sell? Make your choices on, like, what you want to sell. And then this Dream 100 list works for everything. So anything. But. But it's a volume play, so it's not like I'm going to call one person and hope I get the 10. It really is. That's why I'm saying a hundred, because a hundred will shift. Like, maybe you'll book 10 out of the hundred. And now, you know, like, that's my conversion rate. So for every hundred I call, I get 10 people. But 10 people now, like, but 90 other people know I exist. Okay, so if somebody is listening to this and they're getting married, someone they know is getting married, all the things, how can they follow you and buy from you?

They can follow me at. On Instagram at Frances Ann Bales. And it's Frances with an E. Ann with an E. And veils with an E. I always say or go on to frances and vales.com and that's how you'll find me.

And friends tell people about this too. So if you know people getting married, this is all word of mouth. So be like, oh, my God, I heard this amazing podcast and she's amazing. And you know, and that's another thing, like you could do once you find your hook. So, like, if you're like, I help brides do X, which I think Sienna's study will really help you in that too. You can even get on podcasts and stuff that are like, wedding planners do have podcasts. Right. So I want you to think who's influencing the brides. And you can do social, which is like a whole other thing. But I think that there's a faster way to it for you only needing 15 to 20 brides a month. You don't need huge, huge volume right now. And when you get there, you can hire someone to then do their own. 15 to 20amonth. Right. And then you can keep adding on if that's the way you want to go.

That would be fun.

Amazing.

My poor husband wants to retire next year. I'm going to be putting him on making veils. Right.

I was making veils in the Dominican Republic. So you guys can be on vacation making pills.

That's right. Oh, my gosh, that would not be good.

But whatever.

I'll be on a Disney space mountain doing fails.

You get to choose what you want to do with your life. So that's why I just want you to work backwards from what you want. And it can be so simple. You in particular, me coaching you specifically. I know the podcast teaches in another way. For you, it's what do you want your life to look like? What do you want this business to look like at this stage? For you? It's your. It's your after retirement thing. Make it whatever you want. Make it, though, that it aligns with what you want, that you're not building yourself back into something that feels like you're not retired. If you're not enjoying it, you get to choose different.

Right? True. Yeah. Great advice. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

So Fran is just truly so talented, and I really enjoyed coaching her. And it took me back to my days working in bridal. And the main theme here is that, you know, she really wants to move her business online. And to do that, she's going to need to go back to the foundations first, of really establishing herself and what she sells. And by herself, I mean her brand.

Right.

So that we know what we're buying or that her company is referable. We also need to know, and she needs to know who her ideal customer is and then how she can create that online experience. It's similar to what brides are looking for in real life, when they're trying on wedding dresses, when they're trying on bales. So if she follows these steps and.

She digs deeper and she figures out.

How she can stand out in a private market. I think that Fran is really going to establish herself in the online space.

And she can grow her sales. And I want to tell you it.

Is possible, this is possible for Fran to grow her custom, one of a kind business online. She just was looking for the knowledge and the tools and sort of that path forward. So if she's able to focus and follow these steps and really nail down her foundations, that's how she's going to stand out in that credit market. That's how it's going to make everything easier. You know, a lot of times I say that people skip steps one through four, and they jump to step five. So they come up with an idea, they make the product, and then they go straight to selling it. The thing is, they've missed a lot of foundational parts here. And that's really, you know, that's a big part of what I teach to my students, especially in standout society. We dig into the foundations of a solid business and building a brand and your ideal customer being known for something and then how to reach out to them. So I think Fran is going to do great. I know that you can do the same thing.

As long as your foundations are solid and you've built, you haven't skipped the steps.

All right, so if that's something you're looking for, I'll drop a link into standout society. If anyone here is like, hey, I.

Want to know more, and that might be really helpful to you.

I'm going to drop that in into the show notes and it's standoutsociety.com just in case so that you do feel solid and that you do know how to stand out in that crowded market. All right, friend, this has been great. I'm loving the reviews that are coming in. Thank you so much to these reviews. They just mean the world to me. So if you haven't done so already, make sure you're following the show because we want to make sure that you're getting the two episodes dropped every week to you.

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