628. "I want to grow my product business to make $20,000 per month, but I’m at capacity. How can I do this?" | Coaching Session

I think the only thing that's kept me, because I've had multiple people bring that up is just that I never, I do run out of stuff, so I'm always like, oh, am I going to have it? Is that going to put just a lot more stress on me? But that, again, is just part of me wanting to be able to make bigger batches and not have this ongoing thing of having to restock every single week. So.

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into a successful business, and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Hey. Hey, product boss. Welcome back to another coaching session. It's me, Jacqueline, and I'm so excited that you're here. So today I'm chatting with Haley of Sunbird Collective, who sells handmade body care goods to help heal your mind, body and spirit. Now, Haley is an amazing woman who's a single mom of two young kiddos while also running a very successful business. Her biggest sticking point right now, though, is that she's trying to figure out how she's able to scale and grow beyond where her current business is to reach $20,000 months without her starting to feel burnt out again because she's already kind of been through that. And while blending both her business and personal life. So the real question is, can she do this and how can she do this? And that's exactly what we're going to dig into today. So let's get started. So tell me from your own perspective, like what your, what your biggest challenges are right now in your business.

Basically, I just want to know my next steps of how to grow. Cause I'm in my house, which is okay. That part's okay. I think for now. I have two little kids, but how do I reach more people? How do I expand? How do I start to get, you know, bigger equipment? Just make those next moves to bring in more without sacrificing too much more of my time. Because I've kind of moved out of the burnout phase and I don't want to go back.

Where are people finding you? How are they buying from you?

Predominantly Instagram.

Okay.

Yeah. And that's really just me post, trying to post. I don't really have any marketing going, hardly at all.

So it's amazing.

Yeah, I definitely want to. Yeah, I want to figure out how to implement that.

Yeah. So you have about almost 12,000 followers, so that's fantastic. What are your best sellers? Like, what are people buying from you?

Definitely our Whipped Tallow skin care. That would be. I have several different blends of that, but there's, you know, a few that are the best sellers. So definitely, definitely the Whip tallow.

Okay, so you'd like to get it to 20,000. Not knowing how to grow, you want to scale without compromising. And to make this strategy, strategy session a success to you, it'd be laying out steps or areas I need to invest in and how to do it. So topic one is scaling. I'd love to understand how to take leaps when you're at a good plateau, but desire to go bigger and eventually step aside. And then two is how to hand off marketing and still stay authentic and connected to your audience. So first thing I want to start with is I want you to remove the thought in your mind that to grow means you have to go back into burnout. Okay. Or like, because what you've done to get yourself to here. And you've got two kids. How old are your kids?

Four and six. And I'm a full time single mom, so.

So you're amazing.

It's been a little crazy.

Okay. Perfect in the way of like, you've proven yourself that you can do hard things and you've just gone through some years with these kiddos. Right. For like, we're starting to get a little bit more independent. You got the six year old to prove to you. Like, it actually does get easier. And it will get easier. Obviously things change, but you don't have to make sure they're not like electrocuting themselves, you know?

Yes.

So things are getting easier. Right. Like you're coming out of that. But and your business, you've also come out of like your baby business. Right. This these years or your business needed so much, but now you're starting to see with just one Platform for marketing, one visibility channel. And then mainly you sell through your website.

Yeah.

No, wholesale, nothing else.

I do a tiny bit of wholesale, but that's another area that I'm a little bit confused in and I'm not sure how to proceed there, but.

Okay, so to talk to, just to remind your brain, you've already gone through the hardest parts. You've gone through the startup, you've gone through figuring this out, you've gone through these like toddler baby years and think about your business in that way too. So now your business is like probably closer to the four year old than the six year old would like. All right, we're gonna. It's. It's starting to function on its own. It could handle a lot. Right. It still needs your care, it still needs you to probably do bedtime, you know, but we can move out of that a bit. So just know that. Tell yourself you can keep growing it and you don't have to go back into burnout. There are times that if something big happens, right, like some huge order comes in or there's some major push, like we're all about to go through the holiday season, it is going to be busier and it's temporary versus long, like long term. Does that make sense?

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I like the comparison. It's very, very applicable in my situation.

Yeah. What do you think that you would need to do to move from these 14k months to 20,000? Because $6,000 is not that much more.

Yeah. And I mean, I say 20 because that would be. I hit 20 for the first time in April. And so that was nice to see that that was possible. And truly that was very clear to see why that happened. It was somebo with a big account on Instagram sharing about it. And so I know that that's the best. That's how I've always grown, you know, And I've never paid anybody to do an ad or anything like that. It's just I've gifted stuff and they share about it, but. So I definitely think that's something I need to do. But I think that even just outside of Instagram or say ads, which I've just barely tapped into, I think if I were to even do one other thing that I'm just not comfortable and not familiar with and know how to really do on my own could get me there because. Or then that was something I was going to ask you because I don't know, I'm like, is it ads or is it affiliate marketing? Because at this point I'm just trying to post on Instagram a few times a week, keep my stories going. And I do one Friday email. I do a restock. So we run out of stuff because everything's small batch and it's. I've learned that for me personally, it's easiest to keep up with stuff if I'm just kind of restocking a few things every week. So I do a Friday restock. I will sometimes bring in some new artisan goods and then that kind of is like our big day is Fridays. And I have seen that the scarcity model kind of does work in my situation because it is hard to make big batches of this stuff. I would like to eventually, but that's kind of where we're at and all I'm doing at this point.

Okay, so let's talk about what Sunbird Collective sells. So if I land on your site, it says artisan apothecary and goods for the wild soul. You said you're tallow based, so looking right away, you've got your. It looks like mainly your whips, which are your tallow body cream. Is it?

Yeah, it's face and body. Yep. We've got a little bit of everything. We've got non tallow things, but everything is just very like wholesome, whole food kind of based.

Okay. So I can get a 4 ounce or an 8 ounce, which is. I'm just like going off your homepage right immediately. What I see, I see that. Then I see a soap that's wrapped that says shop Tele Skincare keeps me in apothecary. Then it gets to artisan goods. So out of the money you're making, how much of it is the artisan goods versus the actual stuff, Skincare, apothecary aspect of like what you're actually making?

And this is where I need help. I don't exactly know. I don't know. But I would definitely say just from the orders that we're packing out and how I'm seeing things move through, it's probably 75% is the apothecary skin care.

Okay. So your first bit of homework is to know your numbers. So you can probably run this report. Are you using Shopify? Mm. Okay. So you can run the report on Shopify. You can find out what your top selling products are. I want you to look at it from an 8020 perspective. So like 80% of your revenue is probably driven by 20% of your products. And you have a lot of products. The other side, the other thing I want to know is what Your average order value is. So if I were to come shop with you, what a first, average order, like a first time buyer, how much they're going to spend. And then what I want to know is then the secondary part is if they come back, how soon do they come back to buy again? Right, because you've got a replenishable product. So I use up that entire jar, I'm going to need it again. So I want you to look at that lifespan, like your lifetime value of this customer. I get them to purchase and what percentage of them come back and buy again and what's that timeline? Maybe 30 days later, 45, 60 days later, they come back and make their second purchase.

Right? Yes. I did look at a Shopify report today that was saying we have about just under like 200 current ongoing customers. And there's about half of those are returning, half is new.

Okay. So, so really simple levers before you're like, hey, I need to move into ads. And things like that are. It's way easier for you to get customers to come back and buy again. So some of this work that you do might be more of an internal work versus external, like needing more and more reach versus actually just getting them to buy again. So knowing that you have the 200 customers and let's say 50. 50. So 50% is from lead acquisition. So whatever you're doing right now, you're getting those customers and they're coming in and spending an average order value of 60 bucks with you, say a hundred people, whether they found you three months ago or last month. Right. We want to know their timeline of when they do it again. Because you can very simply create an email sequence that's like a post purchase, 30 days later email that says like, hey, Jacqueline, how's your skin doing? Right. Is it time for a refill? Because they may want that, but they might literally be sitting there staring at the store and be like, I have to order it. And then it's not easy for them to reorder. Right. So you can scoop people up by making it easier by just contacting them. And that would be more of a segmented email that you put people into a flow a certain amount of days later looking at that. Right. So if you say the average person comes back within 45 days to buy, maybe you start some sort of campaign that starts at 30 days. It's like, hey, grab it before it runs out, don't let it run out. And then it's, you know, cause then we're starting ahead of that 45 days so that they don't, it doesn't run out. And another thing you could eventually do is like a subscription version to this and just see if you can scoop people up in that way.

Yeah, I think the only thing that's kept me. Cause I've had multiple people bring that up is just that I never, I do run out of stuff. So I'm always like, oh, am I going to have it? Is that going to put just a lot more stress on me? But that again is just part of me wanting to be able to make bigger batches and not have this ongoing thing of having to restock every single week. So.

Right. So. So what is the shelf life of your tallow skincare?

It's good. I mean it lasts at least a year.

Okay.

So it's. Yeah, it's really shelf stable.

So you can afford to make more and have it sit on the shelves longer than what you're doing. But what you're saying to me is that you're actually, it's not that you. Truthfully, you probably don't need me to tell you how to bring in 20, 25,000, 30,000amonth. Like you could be bringing a hundred thousand dollars a month. I think the thing that actually is stopping you is your capacity. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, definitely. I mean I've. Over the last few years, obviously I, I became a single mom four months into starting this business. So I had pretty bad burnout for the first couple years and then I was able to hire on basically a part time employee and then a little bit of a another part time employee just to help get those orders out and label things that took. And then I just started teaching her how to make some things. So that took such a load off. But yeah, I just, I think I'm afraid of getting back into that because I've had a lot of health issues with taking on way too much in the past.

Totally. So I want you to imagine a time in your life that are not uptime. I want you to imagine a future version of you where you get to do everything that you want to do as a mom with your kids and your product is being made and being shipped and fulfilled and you get to just look at the money come in on your phone and you get to get reports and you get to meet with your team members. But I want you to know that there is a version out there that does not look the way that it looks today. And you just have to be open to that possibility of it happening. And then your brain Will start to find the way there. So let's get into your team. So who do you have on your team right now? What does that look like?

So I have an assistant who comes, I would say about probably about 10 hours a week, not split up between three days to. She does a mixture. She used to just pack orders but now she's doing a mixture of packing orders and helping me with certain stages of making the skin care. So it's not from beginning to end quite yet because that's where it gets a little bit tricky of having it at an office because it's kind of several steps, you know, that it has to go through to get to where it needs to be fully completed.

So is she at an office or does she come to your place?

She comes to my house.

And everything's made at your house?

Yes.

Yeah. Okay, perfect.

Yeah. So she makes kind of part of the things or helps do the orders and labeling. And then I have, I had another girl who was coming three times a week this summer, but she's back in school. So she just comes one afternoon for like a couple hours and does one day of packing orders and labeling.

Your business absolutely can afford that. Because imagine you could still feel like there's scarcity, but imagine there was more product to sell. You're hitting capacity, you're hitting capacity both in production but then also you can't take any more orders. So you are going to keep yourself. When you've said plateau, the plateau is actually a forced platform plateau, I think.

Yeah, I think I hesitate to even put more out because like I said, I'm running out of stuff regularly. So it's kind of how fast can I make another batch?

Right. And that's a chase. And like having you in that chase, it it's like, oh crap, if I sell this and it does well, I'm going to run out. How fast can I make another batch that's not ideal for like your nervous system, so which is what we're trying to avoid of that burnout. So with that said, with the current, obviously the one person who works for you, she looks like she's at capacity at just one afternoon. The other person does 10 hours a week, three days a week, which is not that much help. Can you talk to this person if you feel confident in them to actually give you more hours?

Yeah. So with her, I, I mean I love her. I would love for her to be full time in this deal. With me it's just a matter of she does have a full time job outside of this she's just taken such an interest in the business and we're such close friends that she wants to be involved and is kind of doing her capacity with this other full time job. She would love to leave that full time job and come do this full time. It's just a matter of being able to replace, replace that for her.

Okay, so questions are, are there weekends that she can do and, or because I don't, I don't think you're ready to be at a point that you're going to replace her salary. I don't know what her salary is. I don't think. I don't. Not because I don't believe your business will grow. I just think I know what it's like to be like, hey, leave your full time job and then. No, it's another responsibility. Yeah. So knowing this and having kids, I'll bet you that there's also other moms that you know that maybe are home that would love a little bit of a side hustle.

Yeah. That's already been expressed a lot. So.

Great. So people are already telling you like, hey, if you need help, I'm here. So really simple things that you can, you can train on all of this and in fact she can train people on it instead of you doing it too. So there might be elements that the person that you've hired that can like create a video training someone on how they do stuff. Right. There's an app called Loom that I use that records my screen. I speak into it. So anytime you're doing something like this is how I log into Shopify. This is how I check the orders, this is how I print orders. All of that can be recorded and then created as an instruction manual. And this is something that we kind of dig deeper into in my Mastermind. Cuz like it's higher level, we're dealing with teams. But you can share that and then she can teach it or you can. I want you to think if I were to be able to scale and have 6 to $10,000 more worth of product per week or what that equals per month would be $40,000, let's say maybe more of product per month, what would I need to do? What kind of quantity would I need to have in order to have that without feeling like I'm going to chase so that you guys are always working ahead versus behind.

Yeah, it's very reactive. So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, and that's where I, I'm curious though what you think about the restocking situation because it was kind of just a placeholder at the time, of trying to give people an answer of when things would be back. But then it's kind of become such a rhythm at this point that I'm like, are people expecting it? Do they, like the restock situation? Or do I want to get to a place where we're not really having to even do that at all?

I wouldn't want to take on a skincare routine if I had to always be aware if it was. If I could or couldn't get it.

Mm. Yeah.

Right. Because if I found a cream that I really loved and I was like, this is everything for my face. And then all of a sudden I was like, but what if I can't get it? I'll probably find a supplement. Like, I'll find something else.

Yeah.

So I think you can still create scarcity or marketing moments in your business where it's pushing certain things on a Friday. It could be pushing promotions. It could be highlighting a skincare regimen or something like that, because it's really just about you showing up in their inbox.

Yeah.

I'm sure there's this part where people jump in and buy, but they're feeling the scarcity and. And it's not necessarily the best option. Now, marketing wise, you could be like, with a wait list of X. So I remember there was a skincare that Chrissy Teigen used. It's some face oil. I forget what it was. I remember looking it up, and it was sold out everywhere because Chrissy Teigen talked about it. And it also was like this tiny face oil for maybe 200 bucks. It was very, very expensive. Do you know what I'm talking about or no? Okay. No, it's good that you don't. I don't either. But that was a scarcity because they actually ran out of the product, and they probably didn't expect that kind of response, But I don't think that they're creating. But now they can say with a wait list of thousands and thousands of people, it's back in stock. You have a little bit of weight in your marketing that you can say, like, it constantly runs, like the thing that we can't keep on the shelves. All of that is true. And you can create other versions of scarcity, whether it's timing of a promotion, so scarcity of time, scarcity of an offer. Sometimes there could be a little bit left. But I don't love you running out because I would rather you have subscription. I would rather people be able to buy it. I don't Want you to have overstock, but because it has a one year shelf life, if some months feel slower, you can pull back. But I think if you can sell more the people that are already buying you're. The cool thing about your thing is it's a replenishable product. Not everyone has a product. Like if you sell a shirt, it's not like they can only wear the shirt three times and they have to get a new one. So there's this beautiful thing about your product that you don't even need more customers to get to your sales goal. You just need better internal marketing and the availability of the product.

So what is your stance with like what would you think in my industry with my type of shop would be the most effective next step with. Well, with that internal marketing I guess is that emails, follow up emails or.

I would split your company into two in the way of lead acquisition and customer retention. Okay. So I want you to think about your company from a marketer perspective because you truly are, are the marketer and visionary of this company. You no longer need to be the maker and production team. Okay, I need your brain over here. What we're going to talk about versus your brain and oh crap, I got to go put the kids to sleep and then mix a bunch of tallow products tonight. Accurate. Yeah. And then you've been get that in your intake form. I want you to like do it and then go to sleep and then get up in the morning and then be excited because you know you've got a team member coming in, they know the production order, they're going to make it. So to just finalize that part of the thing, I want you to think about how can I get help and I would love for you to work too that you have, if you can have every day somebody coming in every day. Even if you're rotating between people and you're training people into processes. So this person comes in and they label jars, this person comes in and they, they mix whatever. Right. I promise you you can train people to do it. Sure there might be some mistakes, but you're in a time right now that we're heading into your busy season as well. People skin, it's gonna get dry. They're looking for products like so we wanna see how we can do that. And then what you could use the lady that's three, three days a week because she's been with you for able to help implement systems. So she might be able to say like I need 300 jars this week filled of this product. And she might be able to like, actually craft that and be more of the oversight person versus also having to make it. All right. So then. And then you can also do shipping where you only ship three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and those people come in. You don't need to ship every day of the week. Right. So that'll just be. We won't take too much time on that. But I really want you to get help for more help, and I want you to train them into the stuff that takes the most time of yours so that's no longer on your plate and you're just managing. You're not doing. Yeah.

And I think I get scared a little bit if I can afford much more. I mean, on paper it looks like I can, but the business doesn't make a ton. And so I kind of like think, like, I don't know if I can afford more, but I also recognize if I am not making so much and I were to even just get on my Instagram more and show my face more and talk more and actually talk about the stuff, I sell it. Things do start selling a lot if I get on there. And that's an internal battle that, you know, I have just showing up.

You just need to think that the people that work for you have to generate, they're not a cost. They. They actually have a return on investment. So you're investing in team members and they all should have a return on that investment. Meaning if you pay someone, you know, 20, 20, $25 an hour, and they work for a certain amount, but that should yield 2, 3, 4, 10 times what you're paying them, because you should then be able to get that kind of. You should be able to sell the product. So right now it feels like you're stuck because you've got. You've hit this plateau or this limit to what you can sell per week. But if you could start to have more product, then everything goes up and you will have space in there. And then from a profitability standpoint, you tighten systems, you tighten, you tighten, you tighten. The more you make, the cheaper you get raw goods for. Right? So you just, you'll have the ability to visually see your business more. Bird's eye versus right now, you're in it. So there's no way you can tweak all of this stuff as well as being in it. So just want you to have faith that you have a product, you have a following, you don't do very much, and you have an amazing business. So imagine when I say that I mean, like, from a marketing sales perspective. So imagine if you had the time to vision for that and create that plan, and then you had people doing for you. It's possible. And you can pay them, and so. And you can always stop paying them if it doesn't work. But if you can make more money, you can pay people to help you, and then it just exponentially grows from there.

So what? I. You might have already said this clearly, but what is the best way to do the internal marketing? Trying to hit more.

Yeah, right. Yeah, I wanted to just wrap that part. So you're like. We're like, okay, you're going to get help. Can you see where Hayley's getting stuck? It's her mindset, right? And I'm going to say it's most of us. It's our mindset. For me, it's been my mindset. For so many people that I've coached, it's mindset. In my mastermind, it's mindset. I can give everybody the strategy of how to do it, but we got to get out of our own way first, right? So while Haylee really wants to know exactly how to grow her business, I think that the first part of this is focusing on her mindset and shifting from being reactive to being proactive. Right. And one of the ways is to hire help. Why? Because by being reactive, Haley's actually getting in her own way and holding her business back because it's putting her at capacity. And when she hits this capacity, that's how she's hitting a plateau. Now, the quickest way for her to start becoming more proactive before she turns up the dial on her marketing and sales is to actually hire help. We need to stabilize her foundations. Now, some of these mindset shifts. Just being aware of this, I know that it can be tough, and it does require time. But once you're able to find that awareness, it's that we. I say this a lot of times, too. It's like, name it to tame it. It's not from me, but I think from life coaches, they say, name it to tame it. The faster you can see almost like third person out of body experience, right? Like, where you shift out of body and you're like, oh, there I am. There I am doing it again. Oh, there's my brain doing that thing again. Right? That noticing helps us shift so much faster. That's how we get out of our own way. That's how we step into becoming the boss of the business that we want. That allows for us to grow and Expand and to reach that next level. So now let's think about what Hayley's next step could be. Then let me go back to the conversation that we were having of customer retention and customer acquisition. So customer acquisition, you have proof. If we follow, like success leaves clues. When you told me about April is you had a $20,000 month because an influencer shared it. Okay, so what we know is that influencers or other people talking about your product helps get in front of other audiences that you're not getting. And it's cheaper for you to do it that way than for you to run ads. So, yes, you could run ads. Ads are for customer acquisition. But to do that, you need to pay an agency. Most likely, you need to have money to play with. You need to have the capacity, because why turn on an ad? And it works if you can't fill that. Right? Because let's say you spend X thousands of dollars to get these customers, but then you actually are running out of product. Now, you're actually. I don't think that you're ready yet for ads until you know that you have a. The ability to produce at the rate in which you could really turn ads up. Like, you could bring in a million bucks. With ads, we just need to make a million dollars worth of product.

So I've done. I've had an ad, and it was like a photo of a bandana. So it's not even something I make. It's just one of my artisan goods that brought in. That was the most successful ad. It was just a boosted kind of post. But, I mean, I got several thousand followers just from that. But it wasn't. I don't think it was converting to actual purchases. So I think I was getting customer. And maybe it did bring in some customers. But I think for me, I'm always just like, what? Like, I need to actually make an ad that makes people want to buy this stuff.

And that's the thing. Like, you're putting an effort. Sure. Like a boosted post isn't a terrible idea. But what. But long term, the data you need to be looking at, this is all going to come back. Your whole question is really backing into data is going to be, all right, I acquired these people through this ad. Did they convert down the line? Because there's vanity metrics and then there's actual conversion metrics. And so we need to know, like, the leads you're bringing in, however you're doing it, are they the right kind of leads? Everything costs money and time, whether you're Paying for ads or you're putting in your own time online. It's all your time is of value and you don't pay yourself that value, but, like, it is a value. So we really just need to think, like, sure, there's lead acquisition, but are they the right leads that are going to buy? So a bunch of people coming in for a scarf. Yeah. That's part of some of your gifts. But they're not buying the apothecary, they're not buying the tallow, which you've told me just based off of what you think in your mind, it's like 75%. So it could even be closer to that 80, 20 rule. Right. 80% of your customers are buying your apothecary. 20% are buying the other stuff, which is okay to have, but I don't think you should be investing a lot of money or time in that. It's kind of like extra. And then long term, you might actually look at this and say, I don't need the artisan goods or I don't need certain things.

Yeah. And honestly, I think it was just more of, like, on one hand, I love those things, so I'm wanting to share it with people. And then additionally, yeah, I knew it was also like a buffer because I'm like, I can't. I don't want to make more. So I'm just going to offer stuff that's already been made. And so. Yeah. And I also realize it seems kind of funny to be like, I sell skin care and I sell all these goods, but I think in my mind, I'm hitting this certain niche of people and they're into all these sorts of, you know, natural and handmade kind of things. And so it has been successful. But I definitely agree that my main focus should be the skincare.

If I look at your Instagram, which you're telling me you get the majority of your sales off of, it's all your product.

Mostly it's.

Yeah. I mean, it's the lifestyle. It's your lifestyle look. But really, like, as I scroll, it's. Sure, there's like a scarf there, like 16 images down. But you'd like. They're very different companies that you're presenting here. We don't need the gifts, to be honest. So having a dry brush, a body brush, sure, that makes sense for skin. Like a skin skincare company. A soap dish makes sense. The castor oil wrap, if you want to keep that. Great. Right. Beauty cloth, sure. But we don't need dish sponges and matches. And glass mugs or candle taper holders or cowhide card wallets. Are you spending money and sitting on inventory or are these drop shipped?

So. No, I get it. I buy wholesale off fair.

Yeah. You don't need to be. This is where your money is going that you don't need to be spending your money on.

Okay.

It's beautiful and you curate beautifully, but I'd rather see the. Not a kitchen towel. There's nothing kitchen about your brand. This the bath sponge. Sure. Not the bandana. Not the ring. Dish. Makeup brush. Sure. Hairpin, if you want the gua sha. Yes. Right. So there's parts that can go with selling skincare to a company, but. But we don't walk into Sephora and then we can also buy dish towels. You know you're gonna go to the dish towel company for that.

I know, I know. I kind of started with like, body care products, and then I just got sucked in. I'm like, oh, but I love this. Like, I want to sell it to people and if I can share about it and I use it, then they'll buy it.

Look at your numbers. So if you go back and look at your numbers, I want you to look at how much you've spent to buy all this stuff, and then I want you to look at then what you're actually making from it. And sure, you sell it, but it's not worth your effort. Like, all the time you're taking to buy. All the time you're taking to take these photos and get it up and market it. It's truthfully, it's not worth it. And sure, some of this can make sense in the holiday season that you offer some more things, but I actually think throughout the year you should really have a really, like, I come to you for like the skincare that I buy from you and then a couple extra tools for it. But, like, I don't need all the other things. It's gonna make your. Because you. If you told me it was 75% these goods and people were barely buying your skin care, then maybe you'd be an artisan company, like artisan goods. But you are telling me they're buying the skincare more than anything else.

Yeah, I think I've had sort of like in my mind trying to figure out at what level is this just a shop and at what level is my Instagram also as cringe as it is for me to say of like an influencer type account, you know, so I'm like trying to kind of balance, like, oh, if I Wear these. I can share it, you know, so I think I'm. I'm wanting it to be clear in my own mind of what this is.

When you say influencer, it's not terrible to say. It's that you've figured out how to be. You know, marketing is basically selling your product. Marketing is knowing how to sell it and to connect with your customers. And you know how to connect with your customers, you know how to sell it to them. So I want your brand, you to start to think about your business like you are. You're a beauty company. And if you're going to add other things to the shop, they're part of something that they could use for their ritual or their regimen, not other random stuff. They. There are enough people in the world selling like western or whatever the aesthetic that you have, they can buy that from someone else because you are buying them from brands that exist and those brands are selling to other people. So let's make it about. So. But the cool thing could be for your product. I want you to then think, you know, maybe there are products that you have that could be like, build your own bundle and get the hair tie.

Or there's like really cute makeup. Like, I've seen, you know, things like that that I could bring in and maybe I even get my photographer to just take our own picture. So it's just very streamlined.

Yeah.

Or.

Or build your own bundle and get cotton rounds sent to you. Right. Or pick between a dry brush and a cotton round. Right. Like you can. There's enough product that you have that can still kind of build this brand. Or like you have this little travel pouch. Right. You could create a whole travel thing, but you don't need. You don't need all this product is what I'm trying to say. And if we can refocus you in and then you just pick. And then through these holidays, let's like put this stuff on sale or let's clear through it or create gift bundles or something like that and get rid of the product so that you can come back and be super focused and your numbers aren't going to lie to you. Your numbers are going to tell you, like, yeah, you're actually correct to get rid of all this stuff.

Yeah, but then, so say I keep like the face brush, like, different body kind of stuff. Would you keep it, like on the website? Would you have it just all kind of together or do I keep it as that, like, artisan shop on this side?

It'll still say what it. Where it's from Right. It'll still, however, you won't have it listed, It'll still say it. But I just get to shop as a customer. I get to shop by tools. So now I get to find my dry brush or my cotton rounds, right? Or my washcloth.

So, like, say the dry brush, though has a different company name on the bag it comes in. Like, that's okay. That's.

Yeah. Because all I'm saying is in your navigation, because right now you have apothecary and it's just how your navigation. But it looks like to me, what's happening is you think that you need to have a separate tab for artisan goods, but your customers might have no idea what any of this means. They might not even know that you're creating the tallow. Or maybe they do, right? They might have. They. They don't think like how we think of being like, oh, she must go on fair and shop those wholesale orders and bring them in. They just want to know how you're solving a problem for them. Just make it so that if I was a customer and I was looking for a solution to my skin, how would I look? Am I looking for dry? Am I looking for anti aging? Like, I want you to start to think about this in the way of more. The apothecary and the goods that you keep can be mixed in. They don't have to be. They don't have to be separated. I'm not telling you to break any links because your artisan goods, you could still, you, you could still have it there, or you can have it not listen your navigation but still be there. If someone found it through a different way, I don't want you to have any like 404 redirects since your website is. So I don't want them to disappear, but it just might be when I land here, it doesn't have to take me there. So to answer your question back to marketing, it's honing in on what you sell, being known for something. Then it's the idea of the customer acquisition, which again, if you had more time to do, you kind of already know whether it's working with influencers. You said if I just showed up more and talked about it, I think you could think about other ways in which you can create regimens or routines that people are sharing or that's, you know, more of that. You already know how you. How to get your customer acquisition. That's happening. Then the biggest, the easiest way that I see you making more money is your existing customers. So Those few tweaks behind the scenes where it's like just some better emails, better follow through ways that you're gonna like, you, you think, okay, this person comes and buys this, maybe they'll also like this. And so you can really start to think about like email campaigns that you can send to them depending on what they've bought. So whether it's come back and buy again, or it could be like, hey Jacqueline, you bought the whatever, like, but it's missing its BFF because people really love to use this oil with this tallow. Good add to cart. Now you know there's other ways that you can go back in and sell to people you already have, which is just through sending them emails. Getting better at your text messaging, you know, dms, automations, things like that. So you can easily lift, you can keep doing everything the same that you've been doing on Instagram, but lift the rebuy from the existing customers and I think you could easily get to your 20k months. So my friend, did you catch that? Hayley's offering a lot of different products and has tons of inventory, which can make it confusing for her customers when they land on her website. So when purchasing from a website feels complicated, right? Your customers, it's like it feels complicated to your customers or they don't know exactly where to go, what to buy. It's just like an unclear customer experience. Then they're gonna have decision fatigue. We all have it. It's like, don't ask me another question, right? I can't make this decision right now. I don't know, do I want the lavender smell or the lemon smell? I don't know. Right? So in Haley's case, if she wants to improve her marketing, she first needs to hone in on what she's selling and what she's going to get rid of. So she can actually niche down and become known for something. And sometimes becoming known for something doesn't necessarily require getting rid of anything as much as it does making the navigation just easier and more customer friendly, right? So that your customers know exactly what to navigate to, how to find the products. If they have a problem to solve or a need, want or desire that they have, how can they find those products that they should be purchasing? So now let's dive into how we can make generating revenue easier for Haley so that she doesn't have to add more to her plate. Right now she does not need more on her plate. So let's dig into that. Hey, product boss. Okay, so you know that I am on A mission to empower women all over the world to build product based businesses that give them the security and freedom to build their dream business, which will also lead to the life of their dreams. So I know that I can help you do this by teaching you how to nail the core four foundational pillars of a standout business. And it's going to turn your business into something that feels like it's kind of struggling along or limping along to standing out in a crowded market and getting more customers. So I am so excited to invite you to join my free masterclass, your four step playbook to stand out in a crowded market and get more customers so that you can grow your business no matter where you sell. In just 90 minutes, I'm going to teach you the core four foundational pieces your business might be missing. How to stop wasting time and money on things that don't work and what to focus on instead. I mean, these are proven ways to build an audience that buys from you and that tells their friends about you. So what I want to do is I want to unlock what can be blocking you from growing a profitable business and how you can turn it around pretty instantly. All you have to do is come join me inside of this totally free masterclass. Head to the productboss.com standout to get access again. That's the productboss.com standout. Now back to the show.

Yeah, I think, I think I need to do like some mental work around all of this because I get caught up at times, I think, where I'm not wanting to be salesy or act like I'm wanting, like fat. Like, this is a very slow skincare kind of movement of being slow and not over purchasing and being very intentional. And so I think there's a way to frame that and be sincere about it, but also be trying to sell the product.

Yes. There's some mindset stuff there. I'm glad you recognize that. So if you think about selling and marketing as service and not. You're not, we're not asking you to be salesy. Okay. So if you were getting close to running out of eggs or milk at home and you got a quick message, I was like, hey, you're really, you're like, milk's gonna run out real soon. Do you wanna get you another one sent to you? You'd be like, oh my gosh, thank you. Right. It's not like, hey, sales, sales, sales. Like, I'm trying to sell you all the milk. It's like, hey, it looks like you're Almost out. How can I help you with that? You're either gonna take them up on that, say thank you or not. You can easily do like a survey. So you could send, you can put together like a survey to your customers and you can ask them these questions that you're, you're wanting to know. You can ask them to put in their information. So you could do a giveaway, for example, to entice them to do the survey. But you could say like, how often do you run out of product? Like, how often do you, I mean, you'll already be able to see from their reorders just through your, your reports. Would it be helpful if we sent you an email, a text? Like what would be helpful to you to remind you? Would you want to subscribe and save, ask people and gather data and then you can make decisions off of the data versus your mind thinking that you know what they want or don't want or what their reaction would be if you sent an email. Another thing that I think you could adjust. Another simple fix is raising your average order value, right? If we get them from 60 and we get them up to 75 or something. So if I look at your website, as far as I can see, there's no. Oh yeah, so free shipping over a hundred. So are people spending the hundred with you?

Yeah, I mean I would say especially because I actually noticed my amount of customers were going, was going down over this year, but the, it's increasing. So I think, and I'm noticing as orders are coming in, they often are like, like over 75 or 100. So I, I think it, it's helping. I've actually increased that. It used to be like 50 and then I changed it to 75 and then I changed it to a hundred a few months ago. So.

Okay, so that's another thing. So looking at your website, it's, it's kind of hidden. See, it's over on the right. I would have it center. I would move your Instagram to the bottom. Don't have any social things because you know what happens when we end up on social? We all disappear into the hole of social. We want them to stay on your website. So I'd move that and I'd make free shipping way could try the 75. Because what I want you to look at is are we how many orders are coming in at the a hundred or can we get more people at the 75 like I want to. If your average is 60, I. A hundred is a big leap for them. So if, if it truly is 60. Let's move it to 75 and see if we can get the majority of your orders at 75 and over. Right. I'd rather you get a whole bunch more orders at 75 than them staying at 60 and then just a few coming in at a hundred. Okay, so I'd make that bigger there. I would put that into your marketing. Spend 75 or more and get free shipping. I think everything on your site. You've got a beautiful site and beautiful photos. The other question for me, for you would be, what if prices went up just a little, you know?

Yeah, I know. I've. I've slowly increased them because I. I was one of the. I would say first who started with the tallow products, you know, three years ago, and now it's. It's everywhere. Everywhere. But it's interesting to see that. So I'm sometimes charging half of what other people are charging, and I'm actually rendering all the tallow myself as opposed to just buying it already made by some big supplier. So I know mine's worth, you know, more than a lot of these other ones. But, yeah, I think it just scares me. I just have slowly crept up prices a little bit. But so.

So I want you to know that you are underpriced. And from the way that I visually look at your product, you have room to move your price point up. And the fear. You have this fear, but you have. You have proof that it works. So really, everything that you've been telling me that's holding you back is. Is really more of a mindset thing than the actual, like, let's just test and try. Let's take action. Let's move stuff. So even if you went up just a few dollars, just a few. We're not saying going from 48 to 78. I'm saying 48 to 52. It's the same customer. They spend about 50 bucks on their skincare. So that's another way for you to make more money and keep selling. And then just a few dollars more, that's going to help pay for your team. That's going to be more profit in your pocket. That's going to be the stuff that's going to allow you to grow. And then maybe you shift your free shipping to 75 and see and just play these little games. Don't change everything at once. Okay. That's one thing, because we won't know what works or doesn't work. Let's say you shift it to 75 bucks and we just. And for the next two weeks or something. You see, prior to the two weeks and this two weeks, what happens? How many people add to cart at 75 or more? Okay. Then you're like, okay, that works. Cool. Then you could say, all right, I'm gonna raise my best sellers by a few dollars. And then you trust another thing, and your marketing goes more to teaching them, like, here's product focus, but how do I get them to buy more? And that might be way over the 75 bucks. Right, but. But you're just starting to think about your marketing in different ways of getting them to spend more with you when they're buying versus thinking you always need customer acquisition. Because that's like a infinite chase.

Right? Okay. Yeah, that's really helpful.

Did you see how I gave Haley different options to test and try in her business that will still make her money, but won't require her to do more work? So similar to Haley, if you've been looking to make more money. Right. One of the easiest ways to do this is to raise your average order value. Your. For Haley, she has a few options, such as raising her prices, bundling her product, and potentially offering free shipping and raising her free shipping threshold. These are all quick and easy to implement ways to make the extra revenue you're looking for without having to add new customers. This is how it can really add up. Quick. And as I like to say, sometimes simple tweaks do really make a big difference. They're tiny levers to pull versus looking for the big old lever or the overhaul. Plus, if Hayley's able to implement these changes, she won't need to always be bringing in and acquiring new customers as often because she's getting her current and her interested potential future customers to spend more with her. Right. We just want the ones that have already bought from you to buy again and the people who are making their first purchase with you to spend more. It's a win win, and it reduces the chances for her to feel burnt out. So let's jump in and see if Hayley has any other questions and what her takeaways are from this call.

Yeah, I think in my mind, I'm like, oh, I can't change, like, the amount of shipping order over. Like, they'll notice and they'll see that I'm changing it. I'm. No, they don't. They don't notice.

And even if they do, like, people will come to you and ask you things, and you can deal with each case by case basis. You know, drop down to 75. That's fine. Campaign you know, like make it order 75 or over. That's fine. I just want you to. What we need more spaciousness for you on is analyzing this. These data points and knowing when you know the numbers. Like, it's math, not drama. None of this means anything about you or your company or your product. And you are proof. My coach says this to me. You've gotten through a hundred percent of your worst days. You were proof that you can do all of this, even when you get to the point of burnout. You were able to raise these babies and start this business and be a single mom and grow it to what it is. So what would it look like now if you were. You had a little bit more awareness of the numbers and you were tackling things a little bit more streamlined versus kind of spaghetti at the wall mode? You know, you're going to ask for help. Help you are supported. You're going to make strategic decisions versus kind of like. Like you said, being more reactive, right?

Yeah. And I think that's another area I'm just trying to figure out how to get some help with because I've talked to. I. I'm currently the accountant. I'm all. All of the things. And so I. And I am only understanding to so far and all that. And so I'm just trying to figure out, you know, do I invest in an accountant or do I. Is that really something I actually I need at this point or do I invest in a business coach or. You know, there's just so many. Which way do I go? Because I don't. The numbers overwhelm me and I just. I think that's where I'm just going off the seat of my pants three years into this.

That's okay because you're realizing it now. Right? So it's the right. It's like the right timing for you in this moment that you signed up for this coaching call and in this moment, like, what happens from now on, you've gotten to where you've gotten and that's. It is what it is. And you've done a great job at that.

That.

So we're always gonna need more of all the things. So I want you to really think this is why I was trying to make it easier and say, like, what's the impact? What could be like a simpler impact? You're two. The bookkeeper, while it's gonna help you with time, isn't going to help you overcome the plateau because even if you made it rain more, you don't have the buckets to Catch the people you don't have the product. So if you are gonna be in charge of marketing, because you're really honed in on that, you know what you're doing, you've got a great eye and all the things, then I need you to. The first step will be starting to get help in production. Parts of production, more fulfillment. So it sounds to me like you guys are handling fulfillment. It sounds to me the bigger problem is the actual production part of the company.

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I'll think that things are good, but then I. Then I'll go a week or two, and then I'm like, oh, I have so much to make. You know, it's always coming back, back. So.

Yep.

Yeah.

So it's this idea of you having projections and working towards those projections. And if you do sell out, then you sell out that month and you're like, get on the wait list to be first to be notified. The company is growing so fast. Like, you can always be transparent in a certain sort of way that it's like the company's growing fast. Cause there's also fomo, like, fear of missing out on, like, getting this product. Did I want the Chrissy Teigen oil? No. But it's sold out and Chrissy uses it, so maybe I do need it. Right. So the best solution for you to start will be you will automatically see your sales go up if you can get more help. So kind of wrapping this. Is there anything else I can kind of tie in a bow for you to help set you on your way?

I don't think so. I think it was a really helpful conversation and has given me some clarity on where I need to focus.

So I think. I think you'll see. And I'm glad that this is. And I wasn't trying to overwhelm you with anything because I think that the fix in your business is actually more simple than it than your head's telling you that it needs to be. So there's just a. There's a few internal things that could shift so much for you without you feeling like you have to do more. And then I think it's a good place to kind of test and try right now. Rolling into the season, and then it's really a help thing. So whether you get help at home, you get help at work. But I have a feeling you want to be with your little girls because they're four and six and adorable, and it's such a good time and you want time for yourself. So you're just going to think like, well, where do I need the help to support me? You are supported. So keep telling yourself, I am supported, and keep looking for that support.

Sounds good. Thank you.

Okay. Okay. So if we want to buy from you and support you and all the things, where can we do that?

So Instagram is Sunbird Collective, and my website is Sunbird Dash Collective.

Amazing. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. This is so good. I'm excited to see what happens.

Thank you. I appreciate your time so much. This was really helpful.

I mean, you would agree with me that Hailey is awesome. She's awesome and amazing and doing so much as a mama and a business owner. And I'm just really glad and honored that I was able to coach her in her business because I see so much potential for her in her skincare business. Now, the main theme here is that if Haley wants to expand, she first needs to start with focusing on shifting her mindset from being reactive to proactive and believing that she can afford to hire help for herself so that she can step into being the visionary, so that she can step into being the boss of her business. If Haley's able to take this first step and shift her mindset, followed by narrowing down her inventory and raising her average order value, I know she's gonna have a much easier path to making that additional $6,000 that she wants to make each month to cross over that $20,000 per month mark. Right. I think you can see it. And she's starting to see it too. And if this feels like something you can relate to. Right. Relate to how Haley's been operating her business, and you have a business that's making multiple six figures into multiple seven figures. You might be a perfect fit for my inner circle mastermind. If you haven't heard me talk about it before, it's actually the thing that the product boss was built on. We started Masterminds at the very, very, very beginning, before we even had a podcast, before we even had courses like do it yourself courses. Now, my inner circle are the people that I am the closest with in this entire community. I am an expert coach. I've been coaching for over 16 years in the process, and I love working in my inner circle mastermind with my students because they're at a level where they need to make these tweaks. So much of it is mindset, so much of it is support. So much of it is not feeling alone, being able to celebrate the wins and being lifted up. Plus having an expert coach, having trainings that are higher level, having a group of people that just fast track your success. I just actually wrapped a call with one of my cohorts of my Mastermind and one of the things that they had said was that it just gave them access to knowledge so much faster. One person was like, my Amazon is starting to do really well because I hired this one Amazon team that another person in this mastermind told me about. Another person said they did so well with their inventory because of another masterminder who shared an inventory management system with them. So there's these amazing things that are happening in groups like this as well as me being in it with you, right? Knowing your business to be able to coach you. So if you are making $300,000 or more in your business, I am hosting a masterclass called you'd three step framework to build a million DOL product based business in 2025 where I'm going to be sharing more details about the Mastermind. So if this episode resonated with you, which is very similar to several of the masterminders that I have of things that they go through, I'd love to invite you to apply to join this training, it is an application only training to make sure that we're qualified because of the high level nature and the intimacy of this call. And when I say intimacy, it's more of knowing where you're at and showing you how I can support you in your next level of growth. All you have to do is click the link in the show notes notes to fill out your application or just head to theproductboss.com levelup. I cannot wait to see the applications come in for my multi six figure, multi seven figure product based business owners. I'm really excited about the group that's already starting to form right now for 2025. It's going to be amazing and I cannot wait to grow your business with you right alongside you and this amazing group. All right my friends, otherwise if not, you've got this podcast, we've got programs, don't even worry. But for my I'm just, just calling forward my friends that are in that multi six multi seven figure business. And so many of you have told me that you have the Mastermind on your vision board and so we're manifesting that too. Because my mission in life is to help product based business owners, especially women, know how to start businesses, grow businesses and make their own money. So not only do they have safety and security in their life and options and opportunities, but they can also live these dream lives that really blend together. Everything that we want, want personal family relationships, making money, right? Having legacies like being self reliant and having just these incredible, incredible lives. Things that our grandmothers and even our mothers may have never even been able to conceive. So I'm here for you every week, twice a week on the podcast. And I'm excited to see those applications come through for the three step framework to build a million dollar product based business in 2025. All right, my friends, till the next one.