632. "My products are not selling the way I want them to, but I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong- help!" | Coaching Session

An aerospace engineer, and I love it. But I want to get to a place where it will replace that salary. So that way, if I want to work, it will be because I want to and not because I have to.

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into successful business? And what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, or I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Hey. Hey, product boss. And welcome to another coaching session. And today I am talking with Ari, an aerospace engineer turned artist who creates watercolor greeting cards and stationery. I mean, right? Can you just imagine, like this uber, uber creative artist that's also an aerospace engineer. This is gonna be such a good episode. I'm Jacqueline Snider. I am the host of the Product Boss podcast. I'm so glad you're here. And if you're not following the show already, would you mind just pausing for a sec and going to follow or subscribe this show? I just wanna make sure that you're getting our two episodes a week delivered to your podcast player so that you're just updated on all of the ones that we released. There's been some changes in the podcast world and they unsubscribe you from things, so. So make sure you are subscribed to the Product Boss podcast. All right, so let's talk about Ari. Ari has been selling mostly at in person markets, but has yet to turn a profit in her business because she's not seeing the sales she wants to. Right. Like, how do you get profit if you're trying to sell, but you're not making the sales that you want to do? And now she's feeling stuck and she really needs help figuring out why her products are not selling, which is exactly what we're going to dig into and figure out. On this episode. So if you're ready. I am ready. Let's dive in and help Ari find her path to success. So. So let's get into it. So tell me what you sell and where you sell it.

I sell watercolor greeting cards and stationery, and I sell mostly in person at markets. I have a website. Your program helped me set that up, that operates through Shopify. I had previously also tried adding on Amazon because I'd like to take this in more of a wholesale direction. But I. I think I made maybe two sales on Amazon, and so finally they just sent me all my stuff back so that I know needed some tweaking. I was like, well, I'm just gonna pause that for right now because I need to strengthen some foundational stuff, I think, before trying to push growth. And also, I'm at a point in time where I need to pivot a little bit. So up until now, I've been doing, like, weekend markets. I've done a couple of those vintage market days, and that was a weird experience because I invested in a big way for inventory for that market. After having visited one, seeing how many people were there, the next one I did, and that weekend it was crickets. I think I sold two things all weekend, and so that set me back by thousands of dollars. And so that's where I've been focusing primarily. In July, I went back to work full time because we just ran out of money, honestly, and my husband lost his job. So our life has taken a pivot. So. So by trade, I'm an aerospace engineer, and I love it. But I want to get this art business to a place where it will replace that salary. So that way, if I want to work, it will be because I want to and not because I have to.

I love that I'm an aerospace engineer and an artist. It's so good.

Yeah. And also, well. And part of my struggle is that my heart is a gardener and an artist. My brain and my mouth is an engineer. So when I go to try and communicate what it is that I do, I think there's a communication breakdown, honestly, with my audience. There's a disconnect somewhere.

Why do you think there's a disconnect?

So for my business, I think I tend to talk in engineering terms and kind of bookish, and I love the science behind what I'm doing. So greeting cards, journaling, all of that. I love the mindset effects it has on you. And that's really why I started this business, was because I wanted to help people find small Five minute blocks of where they could do something to put joy out into the world, connect with themselves, connect with other people in a real way. And I love, like, I've learned so much science behind it and all the great benefits it has on your brain for you as well as the person who's getting the card. And then I bring in the gardening aspect of it because that's my inspiration. And so I'm trying to tie all this together and I'm just, I'm not explaining it well and I'm certainly not selling it well.

So. So to talk about, like, the disconnect that you feel like it is, I, I get that you feel like there's that disconnect when you're speaking and art and science and why you get a gift card or that sort of thing. But I think what we have to think about is why, why your customers want your art, per se. Right. Like what they're attracted to. So I want to ask you quickly, I get that you're an artist, but why did you decide to start this business? Was there a need in the market? Like, what was the reason that you decided that this was the company that you should start?

Yeah. So that was born out of an identity crisis. When I had my daughter five years ago, I left work to be home with her full time. We moved across the country, away from all of our friends and support network. And then Covid happened a year later, and I was just kind of left with this, like, okay, my job was way more fulfilling than I thought it was going to be. I never thought we would come back. I never thought that it would be back in the cards for me to do engineering again. And so I was like, how am I going to redefine myself? Because what I do for a living doesn't define me. I am still me. But how do I reconnect to that? And I had to make a decision to like, come out of kind of that postpartum depression kind of deal. But I think mine was delayed, like, by a year because I had had so many, like, sleep issues before I had my daughter that when she came, I think for about a year I was just happy I was sleeping again. And so about a year after I had her, I was just like, I need something that is Ari and that puts something good, something bright and happy and joyful. I out into the world so that from my little corner of the house, I can feel like I'm having an impact on other people. And I, I, during this time, I realized too, like, the lie behind Social media, they advertise this connectedness with your friends. And what I started to discover was the more you scroll, then you get off, and you're left feeling, like, icky from, you know, and, like, this internal buzz from all of the stimulation from watching everybody's highlight reels. And for me, I was hundreds of miles away from my friends, so I'm seeing them all do things together, and I'm over here and feeling completely disconnected. And so I was like, I've got to do something about this. So I started painting. That was kind of my thing. That was, like, for me, was the painting during nap times, finding something that brought nature inside into my home that was bright and colorful. And then with lockdown and my friends being far away, I decided just to, like, start turning them into cards and sending them notes. Social media wasn't helping me feel like I was actually connected with them, like I was part of their lives, like I had something to offer. But sitting down to write a card and just say, hey, I saw you did this and this, and, like, it looks like you're struggling, but I see you, and you're a great mom. You're doing great. You know, just a note of encouragement to them or something. Like, I was just thinking of you the other day, and I just wanted to let you know. And then I would. I would seal up the envelope, and then I would walk it to the mailbox. And even just that process could pull me out of a funk. Like, you know, you're inside all morning just dealing with the kids, and then half the day has gone by, and you realize, like, I'm grumpy. I haven't been outside. The walk to the mailbox was just long enough to where, like, you're outside, you take a few breaths of fresh air, maybe the sun is shining while you slip it in the mailbox, and then you go back into the house a completely different person. And that's when I discovered how powerful writing letters to people actually is. And I was like, more people. We need more of this in the world. And that is how Sunshine Papery was born.

Well, I don't think. I mean, if that's how engineers tell stories, then you're excellent at marketing your company. So good.

Well, thank you. I. I don't. I think when I'm at markets, like, you know, people are in and out so quickly. Like, that's a long story. Like, let me start at Adam and tell you everything. Like, people don't have time for that. And so I feel like I stumble over parts of that and it just doesn't. I don't know, it just does not come out or across. And they'll leave and be like, yeah, I didn't.

Like, I just want a card. Having a birthday.

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes I struggle with that. It's like I'm creating something. I'm like, it's just a card. Like, either you buy it or you don't. But really there is so much good stuff behind why you would purchase a card. And I don't think people realize while it's such a simple tool, how powerful it actually is.

So what I think is that how you're presenting your company is you're presenting it because you're an artist. And the easiest, the default thing that people can do is they can make art prints and they can make cards and stationary. Right? That's a default thought to like. I'm not gonna say it's not creative, but it's just. It's an obvious answer. But your why, and I'm glad I asked you what your why is. Your why goes deeper than that. And you're telling me it's about connection. You're telling me it's about connecting with people and like the human experience and connecting to nature and connecting with art. And there's so much more that you're telling me that this is about than I just need a card to send to somebody. So. So I think that, you know, there's, I think Zappos, the shoe company, their. Their phrase was delivering happiness. They were selling shoes. Right. Anything that you ship to someone that they really want or covet is delivering what they believe to be happiness. But I think for you it might be. I wonder if there's like a different spin on this. Your art, the way you speak about it though is more like sounds like wellness and healing. It's. There's a little bit of like a mental heart to like mental mindset, like mental well being. And it's more than just creating a stationary business and trying to get it into like shelves of like stationary stores. Right, you can do that. But I just wonder if there's something more underneath it that you could actually play with. So what other products do you think could help somebody feel the way that you feel that they want to feel that your art could still be a part of, but could actually have more meaning behind it than just stationary. Do you notice how I guided Ari towards really niching down her products? She has her brand vision and her why down, but what she hasn't quite nailed is how to make her stationary and greeting cards stand out in a crowded market. And if she wants to make more sales and grow this business so it becomes profitable and isn't just a hobby, she's going to really have to niche down. Trust me when I say I know that you find it scary to niche down, but if I change the pronunciation and I change it to niche down, riches are in the niches. So for her and for you, the simplest way forward, the simplest way to start to become profitable is for her specifically. What I'm going to coach her on is niching down or niching down. And it's by creating and leaning into more of a faith based brand and products. So by combining her art and nature themes with faith and spirituality, she's really going to resonate with a more specific audience. She's going to call them forward and it's really going to set her and her brand apart from other stationary. Right. It really has a strong point of view. So now let's see how we can adjust her product offerings to fit this niche.

Yeah. So I've thought about some items that I think I would love to design in the future. Would be a prayer journal or some kind of Bible journaling as well as like you see on Pinterest, the hand painted Bible covers. I love that. I think it's beautiful. But I don't want to custom paint every person's Bible cover, you know what I'm saying? But I want to put something beautiful out in the world like that. Because the root foundation, something I had to tap into before even start starting this, was my connection to God. And that's where that connection to gardening and being in nature, that's really where I found that deeper spiritual connection. So, you know, designing things like journals or planners where people can take a moment before they connect with other people to actually sit down and connect with their own spirit, I think is super important.

Okay.

And I would love to be able to make things that are beautiful that so serve people in that way.

Okay. I love it. I love where you're going with this. I'm just letting you speak and asking questions and you're going to figure the whole thing out. Good job. No, I'm just kidding. But you know, and I on your website like you have a Bible verse at the top. So it's very much a part of your values and culture. And it feels like that's a little bit. We can talk about all the reasons why someone should buy from you, but it feels like the depth that like you have, it's so Much deeper than just stationary and other people. And I'm telling you, even people listening when this airs on the podcast are going to completely agree with how you feel and say, yeah, like I, I, I understand that. So I'm wondering if you're just making the wrong products. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. So, so like back to school cards, things like that, you know, is that, is that necessary? No, not necessarily. So I'm just thinking there's things that you could create one if you became more of a. Are you Christian or Catholic?

Christian.

Christian. Okay, so like a Christian faith based company that you lean into that because you, you pull the people towards you that are your ideal customers that have the same sort of like lateness and feel that they want. So if you can really think through your ideal customer who is you. Right. Loves beautiful, bright color things, loves the concept of nature and everything that's like made from nature. And it's not wholesome. Your brand is not wholesome. But it's like it almost feels like, I want to use the word holistic. I don't know why, but it just feels all encompassing of the human experience.

Yeah. And for me it ties into the idea of like slow living was a popular term several years ago. And I had some clarity last night where I realized like sunshine papery is like in a short little blurb. It's about the pause, right? Where you take a short pause and life just kind of like falls away for a minute. It's the noticing like the veining in a flower for five minutes when you're out, like watching your kids play on.

The playground, you know, connecting with God through nature.

Yeah, totally.

Because you're, I mean you're also getting into like Ralph Waldo Emerson like you know, area here where it is, it's like whether it's Christian or Buddhist or whatever. It's like, like you said, taking that moment and watching something like watching a, a bee pollinated flower. It's like that, that like you said the pause. So I think that, I think everything that you're saying is so good. You actually to me sound like a genius marketer. So now I think what we have to do is figure out the product market fit and figure out the products that you should create and the better like messaging because I'll tell you, like your social media and your website aren't as leveled up as they could be to help you convert. I, the, the in person markets are fine, but I think you could really be very strong on social. Even though I know you're like it's, it's not about social. But can you deliver this kind of feeling, this pause, this like this connection and joy through social media? Because people are miss that, you know, that would be. I'm not saying I want. And how do you feel about social? Like if you knew how to do it better, would you do it or do you just not want to do it at all?

Partially I feel like I should lead by example and not even be on social. Like if I could take myself off of social media completely, it would be better for my mindset and my, my personal well being. But also like it would lead the messaging. Right. Because it feels so hypocritical to be like you, you should like get off of social and write someone an actual letter and connect with people in real life when I'm on there every day, like posting.

Well, I think it's twofold because I don't want you to worry about the hypocritical part. Where I want us to move away from is the idea of the concept of letter writing.

Okay.

Because it's like I said, it's kind of the obvious. So I want to, I want to give you some suggestions and tell me if it resonates if you decided to lean into becoming a Christian, more of a Christian business that you're in retail and like religious items in a way and it doesn't have to be as hardcore, that doesn't have to fully be it. But that you, you do. Like you get into this market niche and you're like, this is what I do. You create things like prayer journals, right? Where your art can still be in it even if it's black and white and they can color it in. You know, like if you do the line art and you print the line art and there's only some parts of it that are color and there could be sections for like praise and confession and Thanksgiving and like all these other things. You could do Bible study accessories if you wanted down the road it could be highlighters, pens, washi tape or like kits that go with it. You could do stickers and embellishment. So like with your art, faith based sticker packs for Bible journaling and planners. So you're just thinking in terms of like products that are out there already that are paper good companies. But what could you create that's specific to your art but then useful for a certain thing? I think this is easier to sell. You could create Bible covers that are still beautiful but they just buy them and you know, wrap their Bibles with them. But I think you can. And then if you wanted to have cards and you could have cards, but I get the writing to writing of letters. But we're also dealing like the really busy world and that is something that you could almost create within the community is like a challenge or something like that that you're like, we're going to write a letter once a week for the next four weeks to people that we want to reach out to. But to push someone into letter writing, it's. They need the time and the want and there's just going to be. It's more of an obstacle to jump over for people to want to do that. Versus I would get a company that I could say, here are all the birthdays in my family, here's what I want to say to them. There used to be a company like this and it would mail the cards for me so I wouldn't even have to think about it. Like, to me that's. And I know it's not the point of your connection, but people are so busy. That's why things like Instacart and two day delivery on Amazon and things like that do so well right now. Versus there's a slow movement, but then there's less people that can actually live that lifestyle. So it's harder to sell to. Does that make sense? Yes.

And I hear what you're saying. It's definitely. I'm gonna have to chew on it and start kind of figuring out like, okay, what would be my first step in that direction. The busyness aspect was one of the inspirations. Setting up my subscription boxes so I have a yearly subscription that people can purchase, where every new season you get a seasonal box, you get five cards, five envelopes that are pre stamped for you with beautiful postage stamps that match. You get envelope seals, a writing pin, everything you need to send five cards is going to be in this box. So you can pull the box off your shelf and it's printed so that it's beautiful. You can set it with your decor, pull the box off your shelf, write a card and have it in the mailbox in 10 minutes. And last February, I ran a challenge on my Instagram just like you were saying, like, we do Happy mail Monday. So for every Monday of February, we got on live at like noon for 10 minutes. I went silent. We all wrote a card together, had it done, addressed and ready to walk to the mailbox at the end of 10 minutes. And I did it just to kind of like prove to people like, this can be done in 10 minutes. So if you can find just like a 10 minute break in your day, like you can get it done if you have everything right there together. That's the other trick is like I was finding myself, like it would take me 30 to 45 minutes to write a card. Cause I gotta go find a pen that works. And oh yeah, where did I put the stamps and all of that kind of thing.

Just interrupt, just real fast is like, I get it. But your question to me is, is clear direction on why people are not purchasing.

Yeah.

So what if your offer is why they're not purchasing? What if there's not a big enough. What I'm trying to get to is I don't think that there's a big enough need in the market. I get why you want to do it. I know this is like hard to hear, but why you want to do it. And I wouldn't tell us. There's a lot of stationary companies in our community. There's a lot of people selling cards. You're the version of you. This is why I'm going here with you. I wouldn't tell everybody to go this direction, but because of the story you're sharing with me, it. This pause, this connection, your connection with nature, there's more to this story. So I'm taking from your story and trying to find a better market fit, like a better niche. Because truthfully, I think people aren't buying because the subscription box is a great idea, but they have to want it. And from what you're sharing with me about your revenue, there's not a big enough need in the market, or at least how it's all being presented the way you've been doing it for the last while that you've been doing it, it's not working. You've tested and tried and it's not really fully. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're putting out a lot of product, but it doesn't mean that it's working.

Yeah, totally.

And it's okay because I think this is a beautiful like time to like hone in because you're selling. You said that you're selling in person, right? So when you sell in person, your only customers are the people who show up there. And maybe they're looking to a card in that moment or stationary and maybe they're not. Maybe they're looking to connect with people and maybe they're not. But when they walk by your booth, they're probably just going to see cards, which is fine. The, the next part of this though is like, and you said, you know your website. How do I get website traffic and how do I get to convert sales? Well, when I look at your Instagram and I look at your website, they're not like your website's, your website's nice. Like you've done a really good job on it. But again, people have to like, less people go to websites to buy cards. They probably like rent their drugstore CVS or they're at Target and they're picking up a card when they remember it than to go on the website per se. So it makes a lot of sense for your stuff to be in person than fully online. Like I'm, but I'm gonna take that back in the way that I just coached someone into. She grew her business to like a $2 million business selling cards on Amazon and then sold the business. So I'm not saying that you can't also sell a gazillion cards and make a lot of money. But we just have to really think through like the, the, the need in the market and the thing that really out. So like you get your cards on Amazon. That could be an option if you want to keep going this way. You can take these phrase yourself as more of like a Christian company because that's where I think you truly can stand out more because it's really niche. And you could try some cards on Amazon, for example, and see if that works because there are people buying single cards on Amazon as well. And then I love the idea of connecting with people and I love the idea of writing letters. I think though, that's a, the whole business isn't built on it, but it's a part of the business.

I completely follow. Yeah.

Okay. What's coming up for you?

I guess I just love it. I just, if I'm going to pivot, I guess to a new product, I'm just trying to figure out like what would be, you know, next steps for me.

It might not be a new product first. It might be reducing what you offer into more of a religious offering. Okay. So it could be that new stuff that you create. You stay in the faith based realm. Then you know, you have the Lemon Zest birthday cards. But you know, they're, they're really cute. Like you're the zest instead of you're the best. Right. Like they're, they're really cute. But I want you to be the place. I want people to think of Sunshine Papery as like I go there for. I know what I get from them. And so if that person knows that they're going to get like these faith based cards from you that are, you know, inspired by nature, but they know what they're getting, then it helps hook you into the mind of your ideal customer.

Yeah, that totally makes sense.

Did you catch that? Did you catch how she's going to be able to adjust her product offerings? So as many of you know, sometimes the products we think will sell aren't what our ideal customers or audiences actually want. Which is why it's important to look at and know your numbers. Now in her case, she's really going to need a niche down and lean into building that faith based brand. At least that's what I see clearly for her. She's going to need to explore what products are going to meet her ideal customers needs and wants and desires. Now this doesn't always mean needing to completely change direction or offer brand new products. Absolutely not. That's not what I'm telling her. Rather it's either how she can adjust or adapt her current stationary ingredients cards to incorporate that faith based sayings and inspiration. But let me tell you, she already has it in the collection. So really right now it's actually just about auditing and editing and merchandising her brand together. Right? It's looking at what she has and kind of honing in versus spreading it all out. Right? It's, if you think about it, it's, you know how they say like not from concentrate, like concentrated juices. So sometimes it's like you're adding an extra water just to get more of the orange juice. Well no, we want just the juice, just the orange juice. Just the like the natural parts that are doing really well. We don't need to water down her brand to have more of it. Right? It'll really hone in and help her meet her customer's needs, which is how she's going to find success in her business and through her products. So while she's come in with a really good idea of who her ideal customer is and was, we kind of have shifted her target audience by going into the faith based direction. So let's see if we can identify exactly who she will be selling to going forward. Hey product boss. Okay, so you know that I am on a mission to empower women all over the world to build product based businesses that give them the security and freedom to build their dream business which will also lead to the life of their dreams. So I know that I can help you do this by teaching you how to nail the core four foundational pillars of A standout business. And it's going to turn your business into something that feels like it's kind of struggling along or limping along to standing out in a crowded market and getting more customers. So I am so excited to invite you to join my free masterclass, your four step playbook. To stand out in a crowded market and get more customers so that you can grow your business no matter where you sell. In just 90 minutes, I'm going to teach you the core four foundational pieces your business might be missing. How to stop wasting time and money on things that don't work and what to focus on instead. I mean, these are proven ways to build an audience that buys from you and that tells their friends about you. So what I want to do is I want to unlock what can be blocking you from growing a profitable business and how you can turn it around pretty instantly. All you have to do is come join me inside of this totally free masterclass. Head to the productboss.com standout to get access again. That's the productboss.com standout. Now back to the show. Since you're in my programs and stuff, you probably heard me talk about her, but there's certain, like, companies that just stick in my brain and then. But we've got Lindsay of Just Love Prince, and she.

Oh, yeah, I follow her on Instagram.

Yeah.

So she's a student, Catholic stuff.

So when she first started. And she's in my mastermind. And so when she first started her business, she was selling hats and keychains and basically any type of Catholic product, like, anything she could take her stuff and put them on, she was trying to sell. And when she. And she was not making a lot of money at all. And then what she started to do is she switched over. We looked at her products, kind of like what I'm doing with you. And we looked at what would be the. What were more people buying. So when we looked at her stuff, she. She was making all the things. Okay. Then what we realized when we looked at, like, what sells best for her stickers were selling really well for her temporary tattoos and prints. And so. And she does, you know, like, stuff for the modern Catholic family. So she, she is on Instagram. She has a very specific, like, following people really love, like, she has coffee with saints. So instead of making the mugs, now she makes stickers and shows people you can put them on the mugs. So. Yeah, exactly. So there's like, some humor to hers. Right. Which yours is different. Yours doesn't necessarily have the humor. And that's okay too. And so if you follow Lindsey and what she does, she's. And I want to say that I actually do think for your kind of product and customer, you probably do want social. But the same thing with me, like I have social and Facebook and blah, blah, blah. But I want it to be a nice place on the Internet because your ideal customer is hanging out on social media.

Yes.

And you could be for the young. I see homeschool parents being an ideal customer for you. Like you said, the slow movement. There's like, there's just, they call them trad wives now, the traditional wives, like people who are going back into big families and cooking meals and all the things, you know, I think there's like a, I think there's a space for you because there's families out there that are wanting to slow down. So do you have any questions?

I like the idea of maybe like I could switch into art prints to start out with, like, let that be a short pivot partially because I have a printer at home that will do high quality prints on watercolor paper. And that is something that I've thought about doing. I just haven't completely nailed the design of like incorporating a watercolor painting with some kind of faith based lettering either on top of it or.

I don't think the prints are going to be the thing that makes you the money either.

Okay. So now I have noticed that like my stickers do well when I'm selling in person.

Stickers do really well. So what I want you to really hone in on here is understanding who your ideal customer is. Your ideal customer likes to handwrite things still. So your ideal customer is young. On the younger side, potentially she could be older too. It just depends. Maybe she is. Maybe she's actually, let me go back. She could actually be more 30s, 40s, 50s maybe. And she's connecting with her faith. She's reconnecting with faith in a beautiful way. It's not humor. It's, it's not like based on humor. It's connecting with nature and finding God in nature as well. Right. Connecting with yourself, slowing down, finding God, all of that. Then you have to think, what kind of person is she? Who, who, what does she do? Where else does she go? Right. She might love stationary, she might love pens. She might, she might love stickers. There's people who love to have stickers and scrapbook and they have all the bits and pieces and the, and all the doodads. So what that does is it makes you less of a gift card company. And. But papery is still very much like what you can do. But it's other products that your ideal customer would love that keeps connecting her back to her faith, keeps connecting her back to nature. Because what she likes is your aesthetic. She likes your script. She likes the way your watercolors look like she's connected to all of it. Oh, wow. The way that you present it and present nature and the way that your art looks. So they're. They're attracted to your script. Your. The way that you write. You know the words, and they're also connected to. They're connected to the visuals of your product. Okay. Okay. So that's. She has to be your. Your ideal customer. Has to be connected to what your stuff looks like and connected to the feeling behind it. So the same way that Lindsay does really well with, like, sipping with Saint, yours might be people who really do. Like, I. I met this one woman who bought. She buys everybody a butterfly weed plant so that people can see the butterflies in their yard and slow down and watch butterflies.

Yeah. Oh, right.

So that's kind of your ideal customer.

Yeah.

Now we have to think your ideal customer. We have to even get even more granular with her, is she likes stickers. She likes stationary. She likes journaling. She likes all the pens and paper and the products and the washi tape. And she's kind of. I'm not saying that she's a scrapbooker, but she has that. That way of being. So it still connects to the kind of person. You're telling me where. She wants to connect with, like, pen to paper. She doesn't want to be in a totally, like, digital world. She connects with her thoughts. She connects with her thoughts through paper. She connects with humans. But we have to think what are the accessories or the tools that she needs in her life to do that. So I don't necessarily think you have to come up with anything new to start, but I think we need to hone in. It might be, like, niching down a little bit more versus spreading out. Okay.

Yeah.

So when you have these beautiful cards, like your summer mix box or your Easter check, I want you to think through how you could bring faith into the art that you paint. So whether it's another. Whether it's a psalm, whether it's a something like religious note or something on the outside, like, it needs to be something that connects back to faith so that you're more than just a pretty card with a waterflower painting on it.

Right. Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yes. Huh.

Okay. So are you sitting on like a lot of inventory or is it print on demand?

Yes, there's a cabinet of inventory.

Okay.

I really don't want to do markets anymore because they're so draining and I only have Fridays, some Saturdays and a little bit of time on Sundays to work on this business honestly anymore since I'm working and away from doing and know that in order to clear out some of my existing inventory, I need to get this out there so that people will at least like maybe spontaneously purchase for a gift for somebody or something like that. But yes, I am sitting on some inventory.

Okay, let me, let me work through this with you. So right now you are doing in person. Right. That's really the only way to sell right now. Okay. Have you tried wholesale at all?

I've sent out some pitches, yeah. Using some of your templates, I've done some walk in. Like last year I did a bunch of walk ins to shops and stuff and left, left my spring and summer catalog and then I just finished my fall and winter catalog a couple weeks ago. And so I've started sending out some emails for that, but I haven't had any takers on that.

Okay, so a lot of times you're going to want to do phone calls and like actually connect through a phone call. What I would tell you to do is for your stuff right now, if you get really focused in on local and think about local stores that could sell cards. So especially let's say like your Christmas cards, just the stuff you've, you already have, you can go in, I think like, like think alternative. You can go into small pharmacies and see if they'd want to carry anything. Hair salons, like hotel gift shops, coffee shops, you. And what they might also need, if it's not used, they might need to know like, well how do I display these? Right? And you might have like, here's like a little display. You could find one on Amazon, like a card display or something like that if you wanted to also give it a point of sale. But what I want you to think about doing is the way that your business currently is because you've got inventory to sell. Obviously the spring and summer aren't going to work in the season we're going into. But you go in with a few packs of something and you're like, hey, local artist, I've got these cards I'd love to sell. You know, like I think your customers would like these. I'd like to do like, like you try and connect with them in Real life and see if you can do like a deal with them. A lot of times if you just email lane sheets and you email them to them, it's not fully connecting and they probably get inquiries all the time and they're not fully paying attention.

So I have a question on that because a lot of stores that I've gone into have kind of switched over to like the consignment. Yeah, like the consignment model. And I had my use my cards in one little local gift shop for a couple years here. And I just, you know, I was tallying up how much I was making versus how much it was costing me to set them in there. And I just wasn't making money. I was losing money on it.

Yeah, yeah. So consignment you were paying for, you were paying for a space in there versus consignment as they take it without paying you. And then they split. When they do sell, they'll split it with you. So you make it 60%, they get 40.

I haven't come across that. I've come across shops that are like, oh, it's so much dollars for the year to have your stuff in here. Or like this other girl. I was paying like a monthly fee.

Yeah. So you're going to places that, you know, they're trying to rent out spaces in their own shops to sell them.

Yeah.

So what I really think is like, I know it wasn't fully exactly what you probably wanted to get out of this session because you're like, well, how do I just sell what I have? But I think that if you niche down in what you have and you get more specific, because some of the things you said is like, you need help with brand messaging. I think we need a niche into what this brand actually is. So more than just being an artist that makes beautiful things, I want you to just play with the idea of like what it would look like to be more faith based even in your content that you put out. So right now your social media is, you know, these ones. Well, one, we need more people to follow you. Right. So we need more people to follow so that there's more people seeing it. Second, while these are like parts of sales and stuff like that, I don't know if people are paying attention. So if you were to be able to connect with people in another way that comes with social versus just a sell, like selling and showing product, that's the thing that social requires is social. So things that are shareable that you're going to send to your husband or Your best friend or your sister. Because yes, we can keep doing it the way you've been doing it where you have like the booth and you sell your art, but there's not a differentiator there per se. Yeah, people buy based on seeing themselves or like meeting a need or want or desire. I'll even give an example of I'm wearing like a Gemini necklace because I'm a Gemini. People buy their birthstones, they buy their astrology signs, they buy things that represent who they are. So I think the making of a business that does really well helps do more of that, helps them with their own self expression. And so that's the part that we want to find the connection point for your stuff so that you can make more money and make more sales. And if you want to leave engineering and you have that choice. But it needs to be. You're really good at marketing and messaging now. I think it's like filling in a gap in the market that you could do with your secret sauce, like with the special elements that you have.

It's a lot to think about. Sorry.

No, it's okay.

But yes. Yeah, I totally get that.

Yeah.

So I guess one thing maybe I could ask you is, you know, as I start to pivot like my social media content, you know, one thing that me and my daughter do is she loves to help me do gardening videos. So I have a YouTube channel where we show people like what are we planting in our garden right now and what's growing. And so I know I've seen like really real schooling that kind of thing on my Instagram feed. And I just feel like that is so unattainable for me. I am so clunky on the camera. On camera. I guess I need to like up level my skill in that, like to tell the story like that. Filming all of it with the cap. I don't know, it's. I feel out of my depths in that area.

So to answer your questions real fast, you said brand messaging, product listing verbiage. Well, I think yes. Your brand messaging is often the way that there's nothing so specific. Like I have to just like the art to buy the cards. Does that make sense? But I want you to just have a stronger like hook to reel people in. So then your next question was like, is it my wrong demographic? Is it the designs? Is my ideal client wrong? And so I don't think that they're wrong. I just think again that you don't have like, like strong enough piece of bait at the end of that hook like if we're fishing for your ideal customer. And so I think you have the skill to create it. I even think the product you currently have could be remarketed in a different way, like just kind of positioned differently. If you started to get very clear with, you know, who is your ideal customer and the messaging that they need to hear from you more than connecting by writing letters. I love that concept. But we're sending cards and so people, when they walk by your booth, they're seeing it as stationary and cards, cards, it's just positioned from the obvious of what they know versus what it is. So I think your very, very, very first question about that topic, you said it's the older ladies who still send cards that actually purchase, which is true. Like my, there's so many Halloween cards out and the thing. And I'm like, who sends Halloween cards? I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot my kids. Great, my kids great grandmother will send them a Halloween card, you know.

Yes.

So I think that will cover that part. Then the idea of getting traffic to your website to convert to sales, I think that same idea, I think for you, if I could really get you honed in on what your, who your ideal customer was, how your art and what you can create can meet a need better, you could also still stay a card company where you still create cards. But it, the messaging and the marketing and the branding speaks very specifically to someone to bring them in. And it's. There's too many obstacles and you should write to more people so you feel more connected. Because I want to feel more connected, but I feel overwhelmed by having to write to more people. So you're going to get, you're breaking up the population in that way since it's a smaller, smaller, smaller pool of people, which you're telling me it's the older people who are, who are still writing cards.

Yeah. Okay. Okay, that makes sense. And yeah, and yeah, I had kind of wondered like, how do I speak to the younger generation to get them back to kind of this grassroots movement of writing on paper instead of just shooting a text or an email or something like that. And maybe it's. Maybe I just haven't fully tapped into in an effective way the, the movement where people have started journaling and practicing meditation and that kind of help health space, which is where I feel like that's my niche in a weird paper way. But yeah, like you said, it's. It would be the wrong product. I would need to do something like a journal to get to the younger generation.

But even if you, let's say you didn't do a journal. Let's say you even started with stickers and you started. What if you started doing Bible study yourself and filming just your hands, you could be a faceless whatever. But you're using your stickers and little bits and stuff like that and you're putting it into the Bible. Right. And then people start to follow you because they get inspired as well by like Bible study. Yeah, you, you do a beautiful cover, but do a cover that's not painted on the physical Bible. But like, you know, remember like in middle school when they used to make you cover your books? I don't know. Wrap it and wrap it.

I mean, we did grocery bags.

Exactly. Paper bags. Yeah. Which my kids don't even have books anymore. So you could do something like that where you're actually painting it and you're showing yourself in the process of painting. So film yourself doing it. Like you could set a camera above you painting it and then use that one thing, that one piece of video, clip it in a gazillion different ways, put it in with different music and people, you know, and like you can build on trends and like let them watch that. And then people are going to actually ask you, could you paint one of those for me as well? So I think it's showing how you would use your products. And if you start to think about all these different things that you're saying and how you could use it, I do think, think about your. It's art inspired wellness products through faith. Faith and connecting with nature. And when we say wellness products, it doesn't mean that. It doesn't have to mean you're selling vitamins. It means what are these other things that people do for emotional expression or venting or quiet time or study or faith. And your products could be an accessory to that. All right, so I hope you're starting to kind of see how we worked through identifying our ideal customer. Now when you understand and know who you're selling to, this is absolutely crucial in being able to successfully launch, market and sell your products. This is what you do as a product buyer. And so when you know who you're specifically talking to, then you're going to be able to adapt your branding and messaging to address the pain points and the wants of your specific customer. And my friend, I want you to remember, if you're someone who thinks your ideal customer is 25 to 55 year old woman who enjoys writing on stationery and burning candles or whatever product you sell, then you're not actually honing in on your ideal customer. They are not a range that likes all the things we really want to focus on. And this is what I teach my students. Right. We get really specific on who your ideal customer is and how you're going to be able to speak directly to them going forward. So for Ari, what we really want to do is think about her content creation, what she puts on her products and how she markets them. This was the final piece that she needed to be able to start to make more sales and turn a profit in her business. I hope you're seeing the clarity in how I've coached her that you can see perhaps some of those gaps in your business as well. Okay, so now let's get into wrapping it all up. So to wrap up, tell us how we can shop from you, support you, and follow you.

I'm online at www.sunshinepapery.com and that's spelled S O N, shine and then papery, spelled P A, P E R, I E. And I'm online on Instagram at Sunshine Papery. And if you're in the Fort Worth area, you can always come look me up. Join my email list if you go to the website. And I usually tell people, you know, here's where I'm going to be this weekend and you can come find me and we can chat.

Yeah. Amazing. I'm excited. I'm really excited for you. I know it feels like a water hose to the face right now. You'll. You'll re. Listen to this. But I think it's gonna. As soon as we niche this down and tighten up the offering, everything else is gonna flow so much easier.

I love it. That's so great.

Good. I'm really excited for you.

Thank you so much. It's really been an answer to prayer.

Ari's combination of being an aerospace engineer and an artist, right. This, all of this is the why behind her products and why she's truly an incredible human being, an incredible product boss. Right. She's able to do so many things and she's so incredibly talented as well. But the main theme here is that if Ari really wants to increase her sales and start making a profit, she needs to start focusing on. She needs to niche down. Right? She needs to focus. Oh, it's so scary when I say this, but it really works, right? Then you want to figure out your product market fit. Who are you selling to? What are the offerings that you're making to them? Really honing in on her, speaking to her ideal customer avatar with her branding and her marketing. And if she's able to implement what we discussed today during this call, I know that she's going to start to see success in her business. Things are going to start selling, she's going to feel more confident and she's going to get way more clarity. And what I want you to remember, product boss is more often than not, the key to making sales and growing your business is actually by narrowing your focus rather than broadening it. Right. We always say we don't want to throw spaghetti at the walls, want to make the spaghetti and eat the spaghetti and not have a lot of leftovers. So if Ari can start to think focus pivot in these ways, we're not asking for any major overhaul, but it's actually kind of laser focused in there, then I think she's going to see a lot of amazing changes in her business. And if you can do the same, then it's possible for you as well. I hope this episode was super helpful to you. If you haven't followed the show, please make sure to follow and subscribe to the show. And I'd be so grateful if you left a review for the podcast. It really helps me make sure I'm on track and make sure that when people are discovering this podcast, they get to decide what's for them or not for them. And we've just been putting in so much effort into making sure that you get these coaching shows, which I know I've gotten so much feedback I and so many reviews for the podcast that people absolutely love the coaching calls. And without those reviews from you all, I wouldn't have known that. So thank you so much and until next time, I'll see you in the next episode.