681. "Help! I Can’t Run Ads — How Do I Grow My Product-Based Business?" | Coaching Session | Coaching Session

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into successful business, and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams, no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Oh my goodness. Friends, if you are anything like me, you probably spend more time running errands than running your business. Am I right? Like, everything needs something, we gotta run around. And I knew that this was like a major issue for me back in the day, which is why I decided to get help where I could. And I decided to let Instacart handle all of my grocery shopping. So I no longer had to worry about running all the errands and having to run out and get more almond milk for lattes. Rather, I was like, you know what, we're just gonna let Instacart handle that. So I want you to imagine skipping the store and getting back to designing packaging, orders, making, or maybe actually taking a break, even a nap. Remember those? Okay, so with Instacart, you can get groceries and essentials delivered in as fast as an hour, so you can focus on growing your business without sacrificing a meal. Plus, less stress and more focus. And here's a tip. I've actually used Instacart before to order gifts from my daughter's friend's birthday parties. Because I haven't had time to run out and get presents. And I've been able to get the packaging like the gift bag and the gift like, hello, hello, Sephora, delivered to my house while I was in the middle of coaching sessions so that I could have the present right. It's like having a personal assistant without having a personal assistant. So if you want to do what I do and get the help where you can, you can try it now if you head to the Product Boss. Com Instacart Hey. Hey product bosses. Welcome back to another coaching session at the Product Boss podcast. This is where we help physical product based businesses grow amazing, thriving businesses. So whether it started off as an idea, maybe it's a side hustle, a hobby or a full time business, we are here twice a week on the podcast to fully support you in this. And what I love to do is I love to coach some of my students and people in my community because we get to dig in and you get to sit here behind the scenes and listen to a coaching call between me and one of our students. So today I'm joined by a really special guest. This is Dr. Angie Kraus, a telehealth veterinarian who offers integrative healthcare for pets. I know, wait for it. Because she's also a physical product based business. So over the past decade she's built an E comm brand, Boulder Holistic Vet, where she sells supplements, CBD products, online courses and remote consultations for all of your furry friends. But here's the kicker. Because her business includes CBD and hemp products, she's restricted from running paid ads on major platforms. So when her traffic dropped, so did her sales. That sound familiar? I know this is where it gets kind of confusing. There are some people out there and my CBD sellers, you know this, that there's a lot of restrictions around it. So CBD sellers have to get really creative. But what I like about this conversation is because they have to get really creative. I think you can think about this in another way too. For how do you get creative? Because what I teach my students, especially in my programs, is that they're not ready to necessarily run ads. They're not profitable enough on their product and they don't want to be influencers. They don't want to grow social media typically or be completely reliant on that. So we always want to come up with alternative ways of selling, alternative ways of getting in front of more customers and making sales. So in today's coaching call, we're going to dive into how to grow a product based business when paid marketing is off the table. So my friends, whether you're struggling with ad performance or just looking for fresh organic strategies to drive sales, want you to keep listening because this is the core of the Product Boss. We teach you how to get organic growth, organic visibility, organic sales. And that's what we're going to do today with Dr. Angie. We're going to map out her next steps and maybe yours too. Okay? So love what you're doing and so tell me a little bit about. Just from your words, tell me kind of what you're selling and how you're doing and just kind of give me some background.

Yeah. So my E commerce business was born accidentally when they legalized weed in Colorado. And so people started to, you know, want to know about weed and cbd. And so I started selling it and writing about it online, and I caught a really big kind of SEO, you know, the tailwind of that. And so it kind of grew and grew and I ran ads and. And then you couldn't run ads anymore, and then they started to regulate. So then I'm. I'm on the naughty list for meta and can't run ads. But it kind of hummed along. And over the last three years, it has just decreased anywhere between 10 to 20% every year. And when Google changed their algorithm, we really were hurt by that. And it. I mean, like, it's just really struggling to the point where I'm like, oh, my gosh, do I have to stop doing this? I do sell someone else's product and I would like to create my own, but I also need to prove that I can have a successful E commerce biz before I, you know. You know how much it costs to formulate your own product.

Totally. Okay, so obviously your Instagram is like, Boulder holistic vet. So we know immediately you're in Boulder, Colorado, I'm assuming. Yes. You're holistic and you're a vet, which I love. Right. So we know immediately what we're going to come to you for, like, and the kind of customer that follows you, why they would follow you. Do you have a podcast? Because I see you have a mic.

We do. We just. Jojo and I just started recording a podcast, but I do this just, like, for everything else, too.

Amazing. So what's the podcast? Is it holistic ways to take care of pets?

No, it's actually called Tales of Truth.

Okay.

And we're telling the truth about BET Mad, like, in all of our, you know, I mean, we talk anything about, like, bird flu, we. Or what it's like to be a veterinarian and a nurse. And so we do have some episodes that are more medically based, but we are doing it more from the, like, the truth. It's unscripted. It's kind of one of those really casual podcasts.

Okay. And what's the intention behind it? Like, who are you trying to attract to it?

So the intention behind our podcast was actually for us. And so this was the one thing I've worked for a Lot of pet food companies and done a lot of fun stuff, but this was one project that was just for our own benefit, and I actually. It's the only part of my business that doesn't have a goal.

Do you like that?

I do.

Okay.

It feels like therapy. We have the best time recording it and basically, like, recording the conversations we're having anyways.

Totally. Are you trying to attract in vets to listen or pet owners? Like, I want to kind of identify the customer for the podcast.

It's mostly pet owners.

Pet owners. Okay, great. So the cool thing about that is that while you don't have a point to it, your whole question to me in this coaching session is, how do I sell more of this product? It's harder to advertise. It's harder to do all this stuff. Podcasting, you can literally sell through the podcast. Like, you can run them to your website. So the more you start to get, your podcast is top of Funnel. So I know you're like, you're just doing it for you. And it still can be, because that's how I started my podcast with my co. My. She's Max co founder now, but we were just talking product business all the time to each other, and we're like, we should maybe record this and let people hear us talk about it. So Dr. Angie started her podcast for fun. No business goal, just a passion project. But here's the thing. Similar to an email newsletter or blogging, podcasts can be powerful sales funnels, right? And they're top of funnel. Top of funnel is where it's attracting and bringing in the most people. So if you're talking about the challenges your audience is facing and offering insight, you're naturally building trust. That's what happens. You're listening to this podcast right now. You know that there's several podcasts you listen to where you're like, if it's a parenting podcast or business podcast, you're like, oh, yeah. You start to listen and you start to make a decision whether you know, like, and trust that person. So I'm not telling you all to run out and start a podcast, but Dr. Angie has, because she has value in the knowledge of being a vet, and. And so she's got skill, and that's a great way for her and her business to sell her products. Listen. That trust creates connection, and when people connect with you, they're more likely to buy from you. So I want you to think for yourself, okay? I'm not telling any of you to go out and, you know, become podcasters but if you're thinking about how you can build trust with your audience while driving traffic to your business. So I see a lot of you when you do these in person markets, that's building trust. People get to interact with you, they get to know you, they get to hear your stories, they get to see the products, they get to try them. That right there is trust. Some of you might have killer newsletters that you send out to your email list or maybe you blog. You don't have to be a blogger, but you blog. You might just be of influence in your area, meaning your friends might come to you and ask you for the latest, greatest what. So there are different ways that you have in your life, whether it's at a grand scale or a micro scale of connection of building trust with people. And so I want you to think about how can you double down on that or even expand it. Okay, let's jump back in. Hey friends. Okay, so I don't know if you wrote anything like me, but sometimes it feels like my self care routine is slipping through the cracks. Because when I'm juggling and wearing all the hats in my business and doing all the things, I mean the last thing I have to do is like really fulfill that self care routine that my doctor's talking about. She's like, mom, so listen, so when it comes to running a successful business, you can't really pour from an empty cup. And a lot of times that self care is like one of the first things to get yourself recalibrated. So that's why I want you to meet Glossy. Now Glossy is my favorite daily beauty supplement designed to transform your skin and gut health from the inside out. And I'm actually an investor in this business because I, I so believe in this idea of science backed ingredients for digestion and skin hydration and glossy makes it really easy to look and feel your best without that whole 10 step routine in the mirror. The thing I don't actually have time for, all I have to do is simply mix the stick into my water and I'm good to go. So if you want to try this because I so believe in this business, I think it's amazing. It's done so many wonders for my skin and my gut which are two things that I need help with. And you want to simplify your wellness and, and your beauty. All you have to do is click in the show notes and you can use the code Jaclyn Snyder. So it's my full name. Use the code Jaclyn Snyder and I'm hooking you up with 15% off your order. So cheers to glowing skin and a thriving business. So I'm a pet owner. You'll most likely hear my dogs bark. And I bought CBD product during the wildfires here in la. I was like, this dog's losing its mind and he's going to run away during all the crazy. And I went and got like, a CBD dropper for him. And obviously it's like a holistic pet store and they kind of explained it to me, but there's so many people that are biohacking and they're going to podcasts and they're following people like Dave Asprey and stuff like that for, like, humans. It'd be really interesting to establish yourself as that holistic vet that then people go to to know, like, trust. And then the products you talk about, they're going to trust your products.

Right.

That you recommend. So for me, that's like the cleanest, easiest way to see you don't always have to be selling, but you sell all these different products that for different things. Like, you might do an entire podcast. It's like, let's talk about, like, bowel health and what's normal when you're picking up your dog poo.

Yes, totally. Yeah, that's what we would talk about a hundred percent.

And my dog episode, everyone's like, this is about product, but my dog will swallow, like, whole little squishies from my daughter's room. And I'm like, what the hell is this, like, bear that's like sitting. What is this thing? So, you know, like, there's things like that that you're going to have conversations about that are going to attract the right customer. So if it's not a for vets to listen to, but it's for pet owners, then yes, these are your topics, but with intention. And then you might be like, plus, you have this really cool, like, proper bowel health product for pets. Nutrigist. Right. I'll drop a link down the show notes in case anyone wants it. So, like, it could be very casual in that way, and then it can drive them to your shop to buy.

Okay. Right now, most of our traffic comes from SEO. And so we work really hard on creating content that has a point. And so because we can't advertise as well, that's what we've really depended on. And it's done really well until recently.

So SEO's not doing well.

SEO definitely took a hit when the algorithm changed in October. It was like, overnight. But we're building it back up. We work really hard at our SEO and so it does help. And we do notice, like we keep track of what blog is bringing in the most traffic, what people are searching for. But despite all that, we are just still losing so much.

When Google changed its algorithm, Dr. Angie's SEO traffic took a big hit. And because she can't really rely on ads, SEO was her biggest traffic source. So this is a good reminder for all of us, we don't want to put all our eggs in one basket, especially all of our marketing eggs or all of our sales eggs in one basket. Why? Because if you do and that visibility channel stops working, then just like Dr. Angie, you're going to see a big drop in sales. So instead I want you to focus on leaning into multiple marketing platforms or sales channels. So what we do here at the Product Boss is we think about using other people's audiences. Yes, I want you to have your own website. Yes, I want you to build an email list. Yes, you can build on other people's marketplaces, but the goal here is that you're thinking about other people's audiences because that is also a marketing channel. This is something that I teach inside of the Product Boss sales accelerator. This has been a core foundation to what we teach here, what I teach here. And so for you, you can think, are you growing an email list? Because no one can take your email list away. Do you build social media content? Is that a way that you're connecting? Do you have some other form of media that you're putting out there? Or are you using other people's audiences through partnerships or collaborations or selling wholesale, for example? So no one marketing channel is guaranteed. No one way is guaranteed. So we want to dig deep. We want to fix what we're doing. We want to make sure it's optimized. But that's also why we need multiple marketing options. So let's see what Dr. Andy can learn from this.

I think consumer behavior has changed a lot. One thing we noticed is that subscriptions are less and less. So we used to have a lot of our revenue every month, subscription based. And I would say every time a subscription renews, I have a 50% chance it's going to get canceled.

Right now people are looking for ways to save. We literally just did this with all of our, like, streaming services. Really? How much we're spending? The cable companies were genius. They got us to all spend more than we ever spent on just like DirecTV.

No kidding.

With like HBO add ons. Right. We don't even know what we're spending. And what's interesting about if any of you try and go and like cancel a subscription, like, I don't know, Paramount plus or something. We were like, you know, a TV show that we were watching wasn't on and it was like, would you like to stay on for the next three months for 3.99 instead of like $19.99? We're like, sure, you know, and then we felt like we just won some money. So my sister actually, funny enough just got an Amazon box delivered here to my son's name. And my son thought it was this really cool present and it happened to be her dog food that she on auto deliver and on accident came to my son. Like a birthday present that she sent my son. So he's like, I'm like, here's dog food for you. And she's like, I should probably cancel that. Because she's actually got like three bags backed up of dog food delivered. And so she's also thinking like, why do I have that? I'm just gonna buy it as need. So I think there was a time where money was flowing and things felt really good and people could just be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine. And then we either get off track with it, we're not using all our subscriptions, or when they're really looking to save, they're going to look at their subscriptions first and think, where can I cut? So there might be things that are a necessity. And you're going to pay for your dogs? Like my dog used to an allergy medicine. It was like seven bucks a day. Okay, I'm going to do that. But then maybe there's certain things that they think it's the dog's fine, right? Or we don't do that, or it's not as essential to their health, which will just require more of you doing, more marketing, more because you're. If you're so good at SEO, then I think it would be really good for you to think about. So if I were to kind of coach you from a podcast as Top of Funnel, it's like if your talk maybe you know, the month of April is all about gut health for your dog. I don't know. And you've got four episodes. Cuz we used to do really well when we were growing our podcast with episodes that like built on each other. We did this for subscription boxes and let's say it was like Gut Health Month and we're going to focus on our dog's Gut health, maybe. And you do two, three, four episodes on that, and then there's different conversations about it, and you're focusing on a product or this week we're talking about gut health, and then the email that goes out is about gut health and maybe a blog and maybe the products you would recommend. And then next week we're talking about joint support, and then you're picking up on, like, customers that are looking up, like you said, certain keywords, and then you are giving them information and you're giving them a tool to buy from. So it might just be like focusing your marketing better. If you're doing it with SEO, it's more focused on the podcast and then emails and blogs that can come from that. Okay. Does that make sense?

Yeah, we do that to a certain extent, like with our email list. And our email list converts pretty well. But I mean, I would say most. Most people buying from us are buying CBD. So I'd say at least 75% of our revenue is from Hemp Rx.

Okay. So. Cause yeah, when I go to your shop from Instagram, I think the first few products are the Hemp.

Yes. So we have it so that the most popular products show up at the top.

So do you need to sell all these products? That's.

You know, Jojo and I were just talking about that there are some products that I think that we could not sell and be just fine. These are all things that I've recommended in blogs. Or we could probably get rid of at least 30%.

What's your intention with selling the product? Is it an additional revenue stream?

Yes.

Okay.

And I find that it's easier to convert a physical product than an information product. At the end of the day, people want to give their pets supplements, and I'd rather have them get it from me. And not. Some of the supplements on the market are of such low value and low quality. I know people are going to get them. I did house calls for 10 years, and I can tell you, like, the baskets of supplements that people bring out for their pets. Like, this is everything, you know, I'm giving.

You're like, I'm just going to check all this and tell you to use these two things.

Exactly. I used to be the CBD person, but now CBD is so you can go get it anywhere, and people feel more empowered. So I feel like people don't need me to give them permission like they used to. And so now I feel like I've gone back more to kind of the general integrative kind of approach. And so it's kind of been an awkward transition for me because I'm not the only veterinarian out there talking about cbd.

So it might just be a refocus, a reframe of cbd. It might even be that you don't talk about CBD outward. You're not the CBD vet. It could be that you're, like you said, the holistic vet, and then the modalities inside of it. Oof. Selling CBD is tough, right? We. I mean, listen, I am right here to support her through this, because here's the deal. Platforms will restrict you, algorithms change, but no one can take away. What can they not take away? They can't take away their. Your brand. They can't take away the trust that you build with your customers. And Dr. Angie is a trusted voice in holistic pet care, so that brand identity is actually her anchor. So if you're in a restricted area or you're in a niche category, like CBD or supplements or even some other products, right. Maybe you just feel like you're like, no, I don't sell cbd, but I feel very similar to her. Then I want you to think about how you could start to build a brand that people trust and return to. Regardless of where you're selling, we want you to be more than just a product. I want people to remember who you are, what you sell, why they shop from you. So my question to you is, what do you stand for? Who do you serve, and what transformation do you want to help your customers achieve? Right, Transformation. Or perhaps you're solving a problem or you're meeting a need. Want or desire. The clearer your answers to those questions can be, the more magnetic and focused your brand can become, and the less reliant you'll be on anyone else's algorithm, because people will know your brand exists, and they'll be searching for you. All right, let's jump back in and see how Dr. Angie can focus on building a strong and clear brand identity. What would you say if I. If, like, best in the world at like, if I were to come to you for something like, my pet has X, what would be the reason I came to you?

I would say the top four reasons. Either your pet has cancer.

Okay.

And you want a more integrative approach. You want to know, should you do the chemo, what are your options? You come to me if you have an allergic dog and you want a more integrative approach. You come to me if you have a cat with inflammatory bowel disease and it's like, I feel like I'm the second opinion vet or I'm the permission vet, where I give people like, actually, yeah, your cat's gonna do really well on steroids, but we can also use this herb or, you know, I usually get people to feel more comfortable with what they're doing. I spend more time with them than their regular veterinarian can. In an example.

So cancer, allergies, inflammatory bowel disease, very specific. Any. What was the. Was there a fourth one?

I would say beyond that, any just like chronic symptom that they haven't been able to address with their veterinarian.

Okay. So as a previous owner of a pet who died of a heart attack, who. I think her heart got worn, she was on those allergy pills. Like, no, I was giving her allergy shots. So seven days, you might be like, no, but like seven days a week, $7 a day. I was giving her all these shots and then all of a sudden she got really sick. I had another friend who had their dog also on allergy shots and like, that dog ended up developing some crazy cancer. Right. So you never know if the thing you're doing for your pet is hurting or harming or good for them. So I do think cancer's a huge one. Allergies is a huge one. You know, the inflammatory bowel disease might be so specific that I wonder if people come to you for like cancer analogies or for like you said, these chronic.

Yes, you could back it out from IBD and call it just vomiting cats.

Like, that's a whole it's Instagram thing. You just do that.

It really.

Needs to be a cat person too. So I think that's, you know, I think there's the hook to that. So another thing, like, for me, we started doing cold plunging and then I have like inflammatory things and so cold plunging for that. And so same way I discovered certain people on podcasts, because I was like cold plunging for Hashimoto's, cold plunging for blah, blah, blah. And then that's how I found my way into certain experts that then I went on to buy stuff from them because I was searching for a problem. So if those are the three things that you rotate through and I would test them on the podcast, I would test them as content and I would see where people came. And you're going to develop this over time. It doesn't have to be tomorrow. Like, I'm going to be known for this because you have to test and try.

Well, people, that's where I get that's my blog traffic.

Great.

We do online consultations and I would say that's most of them. Or diet. That's another specialty I have. I've worked in the pet food industry for a long time, so I can talk to people about what they're feeding their pets with more knowledge than other veterinarians.

Yeah. Because I thought it was insane that vets promote some of the brands that they promote when they're not good for animals. Right. Like, right. There's certain.

Yeah, yeah, you could speak to that.

Yeah. Because like, again, allergies. I was like, this dog's eating rabbit and, you know, venison and all the expensive salmon. Like, all my dogs just eat fish. They're like cats. So anyways, you already have so much content off of the blogs that each one could be an inspiration. You guys are like, hey, let's pull up this blog and just start to chat.

Okay.

And then it could link back to the blog. It could also be like, click here for the article on it. Because what we want to do is we just want to get people from their earbuds to your websites and then hopefully your email list. And then that's kind of how I would focus. I'd start to focus more. And then you don't have to be the CBD vet. You're the, like you said, you're the holistic vet. And on the back end, you'll do your recommends. So you're doing the SEO and content already. So you're doing great on that. You've got the blogs. With your podcast, you can repurpose the video podcast appearances. Because your first question was, how do you get more traffic to your site? So the beautiful amazing thing is that you have the podcast. So once you grow this, people are going to want to be on. There might be partnerships, people are going to talk about it. And then you can let companies that like, you know, groomers and rescue organizations and boutiques and other integrative wellness practitioners that like, have the same mission as you, you can offer them free education. Right. Like, you could offer them co branding referrals. You could say like, hey, here's a podcast if you ever want to tell your clients about this. So it's just like word of mouth. And then what you're already doing, which is like Instagram, TikTok social media, where you're. I would again say every piece of content that you're creating, you can repurpose. Is CBD safe for cats? Right. Or like, how do I switch my dog that's on $7 a day of allergy medicine to a holistic treatment plan. And I think a big deal for you is, like, really putting. They. They say it like, Frank Kern is a big marketer, and he's like, it's oppositional. So I'm calling BS on this. Or lately, I've been saying a lot of coaches are telling you you need to build a personal brand or you have to run ads or you have to have a following in order to sell your products. Well, I'm going to tell you that's not true. Like, you just need to use other people's audiences. So it's kind of like oppositional to something that they think and expect versus what I believe to be true and what I teach.

Okay. I think I could probably do more oppositional marketing. I try to keep everything really positive, and so I think there's a way that I can do that. I try not to isolate anybody, which doesn't always get me the best reach, because sometimes I'm too agreeable. But I feel really solid about not wanting to alienate people or have anyone feel guilty for what they're doing or not doing.

Yeah. And it doesn't have to be like, you suck if you're giving your dogs medicine. Right. It's more of answering, you already are doing this with SEO. So similar ways that you know what people are searching, then that's like, your hook on social. Now, these are all visibility tactics. Right. Because you're like, how do I get in front of more people? You can. As you're growing your list, if you're just doing focusing on the podcast, blogging, and growing your email list, it will start to grow your Instagram naturally. This was so fun. In today's episode, Dr. Angie faced a real challenge. How do you grow when paid marketing is off limits? And even though for her specifically, it's off limits, I'll bet you a lot of you out there are like, it's off limits for me too, Jacqueline, because I'm not going to spend the money on that right now. But she's not backing down, and neither should you. So for her, she's going to lean into that visibility through a podcast. She's going to rethink how she does her content, and she's going to deepen her customer trust. She's ultimately building a resilient brand. And if 2025 has taught us anything, I think we literally all have to build resilient brands. We all need our eggs in a few more baskets than what we're thinking. So if you're facing similar struggles. Maybe your ads aren't working or you don't even have the ability to do ads or you don't have the traffic that you're hoping for. I hope that this episode is your sign. My friends. There is always another way. I want you to focus on connection, trust and value. You are also going to want to focus on diversifying your sales channels, getting more eyes on your products, perhaps using other people's audiences. This is exactly what we teach inside of the product boss sales accelerator, visibility and sales. Right? And so that's what we teach. That's what you're going to do and you're going to figure out how to build that trust and ultimately convert them to make the sale. And don't forget, the best marketing doesn't always look like in air quotes marketing. So if you want to Learn more about Dr. Angie, perhaps you have a cat or a dog that needs a visit with her or you're looking at her products. She's an incredible vet. All you have to do is visit her website@boulderholisticvet.com we'll drop that in the show notes and you can find her on Instagram @boulderholisticvet. All right, my friends, thank you for listening. I am really proud of you. You are crushing it out there. Keep stepping forward, keep taking action and I'll catch you in the next.