753. From Handmade to 8 Figures: How to Scale Without Losing Yourself with Ann Williams

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Product Boss Podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Today is a really special episode for me and hopefully for you too. I'm welcoming a guest that has been a client of mine for years and years, was in one of my very first masterminds, is a success story that I share. It's kind of like in the halls of the Product Boss lore and really excited to have her back on the show. It's been some years since we worked together and really just getting a beautiful update. So Today, our guest is Anne Williams, and she's the founder of YearlyCo. And YearlyCo is a beautiful jewelry brand, a high-end jewelry brand that was built on tradition, storytelling, and solid gold bangles that are designed to mark life's biggest milestones. And so what really started as an idea, a creative outlet, something that she created for her family as a young mom, became an 8-figure business. With customers returning every year, a team of 20, and rapid growth. But Anne's story's not just about her growth, it's about learning through the process as a founder when to focus, what to focus on, when to let go, and how to build a business that supports your life instead of consuming it. So in today's podcast episode and in this conversation, we talk about what it looked like to scale from her handmade beginnings to a team-run company, 'cause yes, she has a CEO running the company now, and how her breast cancer diagnosis at the age of 37 changed the way she leads. And then what it means to really redefine success when the market shifts and life asks you to slow down. So if you've ever wondered how to grow a business without losing yourself in the process and making it through all of the way that life lives, then this episode is for you. Let's welcome Anne Williams of Yearly Co. Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder, and this is the Product Boss Podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product-based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours, whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into successful business, And what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers? And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million-dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy, and support, and you too can be the next million-dollar product boss. Let's do this. Anne, welcome back to the Product Boss Podcast. I'm like literally jumping out of my seat, so excited that you're back.

Thank you. It is so good to be back. It's been a long time since we have chatted on the podcast, but also just a long time since we've caught up, and I am so excited to be here.

Yeah, like it's been a lifetime. There's been so much that we'll kind of unpack in this, in this. But those of you out there that don't yet know who Anne is, she is probably one of my most favorite, like, success stories to talk about. And I still wear your bracelets, so they're on my wrist. And, and we had the honor of working with you some years ago with YearlyCo and just sort of like how you had shifted in that moment. And it almost solidified how I teach, like just watching it manifest and happen for you. And so that's why you're such a big story. So for us here at the Product Boss who don't yet know who you are and what YearlyCo is, tell us a little bit more about your business.

Yes. So my name is Anne Williams, and I have Yearly Co. or Yearly Company. I started this business in 2016. It was kind of our official paperwork date, but probably 2015 is when I was making our family's anniversary bangles in my garage. So I have all of my bangles on. It started with a tradition that my grandfather gave one to my grandmother every year of marriage, and that started our really special family tradition of gold bangles. So after I was married for a couple of years and had my own kids at home, or one and one on the way, I just wanted a creative outlet. And it was such a clear, easy thing for me to do. I kind of started other businesses, spent time doing some other things. But one of my uncles was my first customer, and I learned how to make solder bangles in my garage. He paid for his bangle, I bought the gold, I made the piece, I shipped it to him, and it was like, wait, wow, this was so So great, I can, you know, do this during nap times. This is perfect. It's like just my speed. Had no idea that it would turn into the business that it is today. But along the way, definitely had a lot of questions, didn't know what I was doing, needed help. Met Jacqueline Snyder Snyder Snyder, um, did a Product Boss Mastermind. And yeah, there's a lot to tell over the last 10 years, but that was kind of how we got our start.

Yeah. So what I love about Yearly Cow, and I remember telling you this, I'm like, this model is genius and you're a genius because you sell solid gold, right? So higher price point in diamonds.

Yes.

Her face is— if you're not watching this on YouTube, her face is like, eh, gold, which we've dealt with over the years. But solid gold, higher ticket priced items that are like— the tradition of it is that, let's say, a spouse, a husband would buy it for the wife every single year of marriage. I'm like, it's genius to get them to come back and buy between, you know, $300 to $6,000 bracelet every single year.

Yeah, we had that built-in model. I was before my time in terms of that subscription, but, you know, it was because of our family tradition. And so what was so cool about when we started is that I just felt like at the time my husband had started a business, I was a stay-at-home mom. I was like, you know, I'm not in Tiffany's once a year getting myself something. But when we started, Gold was at a place where you could buy our product was around like $300 to $400. It was like one big investment a year. It felt really special. You could tell your story. We started doing more things like adding notches so you could add a special date, adding birthstones you could represent your kids, and it just became this really sort of easy business model for me to sell because it didn't feel like selling. It was just like sharing. It was sharing our family tradition. It was really special to me. But, you know, one of the pitfalls of an early business owner, which Jacqueline Snyder helped me with, was you want to say yes to everyone. And all of a sudden it was like, oh no, now people want rings, people want this, people want that, they want silver, they want— and so I definitely went through a phase of trying to be everything to everyone and then really honing it back in and being like, no, this is what we do well. We do solid gold pieces. Our custom-sized bangles are kind of what make us really unique in the industry. We hand-make things like, you know, who's behind the work. And that's what really— once we really honed in on that and got clear, that's kind of what took us to the next level.

Yeah, I remember we had met and you— I think your company was at half a million. You were selling on Instagram, and then were you on Etsy?

No, we never did Etsy. Um, I had a Shopify site, or no, at the time it was Squarespace we used to use. Yeah, Squarespace. Um, just really basic, and I felt like we'd get lost on Etsy because our product is so simple. I wanted the storytelling piece, and so Instagram, when it was free and easy and everyone just saw everything you posted all the time, good old days.

You were in the posts and everyone follows.

Yes.

So yeah, I remember you were there and it was half million in the business and really it was like, well, we talked about what you were known for and you were known for the bangles, but like kind of where you were going with it, you're making earrings and bracelets and, and I know earrings are like sucking up and rings, which was a whole other sizing situation. Yes.

Yes.

But you started off you doing it yourself, right? Like you were the jeweler originally.

Yes. So I was at the bench and I feel like it came kind of innate to me that I— this isn't, you know, I enjoyed it and I wanted to do it for as much as I could. But I was like, if I want the business to grow, if I want to serve more customers, I can't— like, this is a bottleneck, clearly. So it was pretty clear to me pretty early that we needed to hire another jeweler. So hired a jeweler, hired an intern who could help me take things to FedEx and manage emails and all of that. So I was the maker at the beginning and I loved it and loved being at the bench, being creative. But I knew my skill set and the time I had available to me was not going to be best served as a maker.

Yeah, I remember you, you went all in on the bangles and you had $1 million in 6 months.

Yes, it was absolutely crazy. I mean, we just— when I think about that growth and I think— I mean, you guys were probably telling me, but even at the time I didn't. I knew it was a big deal and I was so proud and so excited. But now I mean, I'll hear other business owners talking about like just getting to the first million and we were so fortunate that it was the right price point, the right time, the right model. You know, we had all the advertising just working for us and we just got so quickly. I think we went from like, you know, $275,000 to $750,000 to $2 million to $4 million to $7 million. And it just took off, which was a lot to catch up with. But it was a wild and exciting ride when gold was all under $2,500 an ounce.

I feel like we're going to unpack some of the stuff about gold in a minute.

Yeah.

So let's talk about like that, that leap for you, because I think it was you were, you were basically at $2 million by the end of that next year. So it was like 18 months that we went from half million to $2 million. What in that jump, what was really going on beneath the surface? If you can go back to who you were back then.

It was a mess behind the scenes. I mean, I think we were handling it pretty well. I had, I think, just probably Michaela, who was my first employee, who I love dearly, is no longer with me. But, and then maybe one jeweler, one kind of shipping helper. And we were just getting it done, knocking it out. I was asking everyone I knew, like, you know, everyone in the industry, how do you do this? How do you do this? I don't know how to do this. You know, we were slowly adding on a few things here and there, but I tried really hard not to overextend us into anywhere where I wasn't comfortable, you know, we have a lifetime guarantee. We're very big on our integrity, our quality of product. So I just kept thinking like, whatever we make that goes out the store, it has to be good. You know, it has to be solid, it has to have our stamp of approval. So we didn't get too crazy with like designs and stones, and I didn't even know that much about any of those things. But we would really listen to customers. I was all day long, like when I wasn't being a mom, but talking to customers, listening. Oh, I wish it came, you know, slightly bigger sizes. I wish the sizing kit had more options. Whatever it was, we took that feedback, we immediately made those changes. I remember like the first request for like a twist design bangle. A customer was like, I just want something a little different that marks this special year. And so I just kind of looked around like, okay, could we do— and I was always coming from the place of affordability for me, you know, if I'm going to invest in a whole new SKU or product line, I can't— I don't have the money for that. So let's just try buying this one piece of gold wire, making that, testing it, seeing what we think, asking this customer, you know, you're going to be the tester, so let's see. She loved it, it was great. And then we were pricing from there and just adding— like, we never added anything that wasn't already kind of— we had a demand for.

What do you do with the shoulds though? Because it sounds like some of the shoulds you take and some of the shoulds you leave behind.

100%. So I think this is so fascinating because, you know, market research and gathering information from Instagram, wherever, is So important. But at the same time, I think you always said this and I had always heard it from other business owners. Like if you ask someone, how much would you pay for this? They're going to be like, $10, $20. Like no one knows what something's worth because they don't know what it takes. They don't know the— you are assigning the value of the product to it. And if you assign a value that's too low, you're actually doing a disservice to the customer because you're not going to be around in a year. Like that's just the truth. I think, you know, my sister who's an entrepreneur, she was always really helpful at understanding that. I think women sometimes are like, oh, I just don't want to make it too expensive. I want it to be affordable. It's like, cool, cute, me too. But that stuff comes from Amazon. Like, if it's a handmade product and you believe in it and you are proud of it, you have to price in the margin that makes it reasonable to continue in your business. You know, you have to make enough money to pay the bills and also have some money to take home. So that was always part of it. So when people say like, I wish you would make, you know, this, this, and this at this price point, that's unfortunately not possible. Love the feedback, thank you for chatting with me. Or, you know, just getting really down the line, if people wanted to add pearls or, you know, getting more intricate, it's like, we don't do that. And I have always told my team, it's okay to tell someone, oh my gosh, that's such a beautiful idea, unfortunately we don't make that. Like, you don't have to go back and forth and back and forth and just recommend another jeweler or send them to another store in town. Or, you know, it's okay to send people on their way and be like, sadly, we are not for you. And that's okay because we need to spend our time and energy on the people that we are for.

Yeah, so good. Because I think, like you said, there's some— like, I actually have the Twist bangle. I remember when that happened. And so it's sort of— it's like, oh yeah, that's a great idea. And it marries to the idea that you were doing bangles versus, you know, you should do— you should do a blah, blah, blah earring that's twisted and da da da. And it's a whole new thing. Yeah.

And when you think about especially price point, it's a hard one because we all want to have some low price point option. Like, that's so fun. It could be an add-on or this or that. But now after 10 years, I really understand that every time you introduce new products, that's marketing time, copy time. Your team is taking photos, they're answering questions, they're in the DMs. So like, if this isn't going to be like a slam dunk, huge volume, it's actually made you no money because you're like, great, we made an extra $20, but we did all this work just to create that product where we could have been marketing our evergreen products, like reaching out to our VIPs, spending time fostering that connection with our customers instead of chasing some low price point thing that maybe doesn't even align.

Yeah. So what shift did it take from you, you know, internally? Because I believe your business only grows as much as you do. So it was going to grow to the capacity of what you could hold, also to the decisions you were making. So what do you think that was, that first shift back then that leveled you up out of you being at the bench? I remember a picture of you with your baby, yeah, like soldering, to hiring your first jeweler, I remember. And then you had like several jewelers. Then I've been in your brick and mortar in Nashville where I've like— you weren't there, you were at your daughter's play and people were running the store for you, you know. So what was that shift?

I mean, it is a hard— I understand that it's hard to delegate and it's hard to let go a little bit. There's been phases where I've not wanted to, but I've just always been such like a practical person that it's like, I just can't, you know, I'm not going to run myself ragged, be like miserable, crazy. I also didn't have the ego where I was a jewelry designer. Like, I just was a mom who made a bangle in her garage. And so I think, and I knew once I hired a jeweler, they're better than I am. Like, they do this all day long. They went to school for this. So what time can I allocate that's like best for the business? And some of that time is me being away from the office, me being out in the community, shopping, meeting other shop owners, like researching, understanding all the options for us being a consumer, digesting that information for the business. And I think fairly early on, I understood that like me sitting at a desk, making a bangle or, you know, doing any of these like tasks was not what was best for the business.

So what do you think would have happened if you kept trying to grow the business in the old way versus really taking that leap?

Mm-hmm.

And that trust, right?

I mean, we would have started letting customers down. I think that's the true test. It's like if I had the ego about it or even the like, I guess, scarcity mindset that like, oh, but if I make it all, then I keep all the profit. Or I, you know, didn't believe in it supporting another employee or the next step, stuff would have fallen through the cracks. Like, I know that about myself. Things would have gotten made wrong or, you know, not been of quality, or we couldn't have added to the line like I wanted to. So it became pretty clear what I was spending the most time in my day doing that could be outsourced to someone else. And I knew that. It's like, I'm not the queen of FedEx, like, someone else can do that. But what can I be doing that's like either driving sales, keeping customers happy, making them feel really excited about our pieces? Like, I just saw that pretty quickly and knew that that was important. And then, I mean, we were still like Scotch taping things together, like you know, you hire out, I think, professionals like an accountant at some point, maybe a photographer, those skills where you need someone who really knows what they're doing. And at the beginning, it's just a lot of people who— not a lot, a few people who can do a lot of things. Um, and we just kind of kept taking it month by month, quarter by quarter, being like, oh wow, that was crazy. Where was the stress falling? You know, what would happen if we grew that amount again? And just making the next right decision.

Yeah, I remember, and I don't know if you remember this, but I remember in the group, because we were all 7-figure business owners, is my inner circle basically of my mastermind. And I remember asking you, okay, if you didn't do all the things, what would you be doing with your time? Do you remember what you said?

No.

I think you had said you would be at a beach with your girls. You'd probably have a cocktail in your hand.

Yeah.

And you'd be like, look, you'd be coming up with new designs And then everything else will be running.

Amen. Yes, still. I mean, maybe my own backyard, even just like in the garden. Yeah, I think it's— I have found that it's so interesting that we all think like we need to work till 60 to be retired, to have a Tuesday in our own yard. Like, that's not it for me. I want to have a Tuesday in my yard right now. So, I mean, that's a balance too. Obviously we can't all do that all day long, but it has always been a goal that when you're an entrepreneur, you're setting your own hours. Yes, some weeks it's literally 60 hours, but you're picking those hours. So I do, I want to, I want to be able to choose if I'm picking my kids up, if I, you know, can make this or that. I'm not always going to because work sometimes takes over, but that's always been really important to me. Like, I was never like, I want to be a corporate girly, you know, in the office all the time. And no, if that is your thing, I support it. But I knew I wanted time with my family. I wanted to make money at work. So that I can support my family and have time off and feel super secure in that. And I don't think anyone should be ashamed of saying that out loud.

Yeah. And life first, business. And I think your sister who owns Five Mary's Farms, if anyone follows her, Mary, and she, she teaches people and she runs a massive ranch and it's beautiful to watch her and her girls and then her husband. Even how you pull in your family, you guys have such a tight family story and it's always, it always feels so sweet and like beautiful. And it's like the end result that a lot of us hope for. So even someone who models that and grows up in it, it's like, still, I want that. Like, I love a Tuesday in my backyard. Yeah, simple.

Yeah, it is simple. I mean, yes, I feel really fortunate. We have a wonderful family. I'm one of 4 kids, and my sister has 4 girls, and there's 12 cousins. We all just went to Hawaii for a week. My dad and my parents treated us to a week in Hawaii, which That's the dream, like just enjoying your adult children, enjoying your grandchildren. And my dad was a lawyer for 47 years, so it's a different track. But I mean, just all of that is like, yes, of course, that's the dream. And for me, I think it's the shift that's maybe happened over the last 10 years is just redefining what it looks like, what success looks like to me. And like, do we care if it looks like success to someone else? Yeah. And that's the part of the business I think that any business owner has to kind of figure out along the way. Like, PR is great, and people knowing who you are is great. That leads to more business. It's wonderful. But do I want to be at an event every single night so that I can, you know, get my name out there? Do I want to be networking and schmoozing, or do I want to be like spending— have— going on a girls trip with my very good friends, or spend, you know, having family dinner? So there's trade-offs in that world, especially when you're like the face of a brand.

Yeah, we have a— I have this whole thing created that is called Life First, your life first planner, because at least here at The Product Boss, we're building these businesses so that our lives can come first, so that life can just life, right? And I think you and I are both models of life lifing over the last few years. So you— let's lead to go into your story because your personal story, you built this business, it's thriving, like Instagram popping off, you know, tons of sales, multi-million dollars in sales, like everything's Amazing. And then what happened? Like, because if we hadn't done that work before— yeah, so share, share a little bit more about your story. What happened post working together?

So post working together, we continued to grow. I mean, COVID was wild for the business in a good way because people are all on their phones looking for things to buy and experiences, you know, they could have at home. So we continued to grow more and more and more, got to an amazing level of revenue. I hired a COO who had kind of risen up through the business who was really taking a lot off my plate. And we were definitely in that, I feel like, so 2023 was kind of the year where it was like, maybe people were starting to be like, huh, weird. Like we're seeing a little, a little bit of a drop-off or just like it's a little harder to get our people to see us. Still doing well, still growing, but we're just like, this is like a stabilizing year. Great. That's fine. But I was feeling, I think, just burnt out, like just running a team and managing. And I think we had maybe 18 or 19 people by then. Bigger studio, you know, understandably a wonderful group of employees, but people are going to start asking after a few years, how can I grow? What else, you know, where can I get to? Like, what's next? What's next? And that is a hard question when you're not really sure. Like, okay, this is where the business has been going. It's been doing well. And at kind of the peak of all this, I started feeling, you know, I think looking back just a little more like, wow, everyone's looking at me. And like asking, what's next? What's next? What are we doing? How are we growing? What does the structure look like? And it's like, I don't know, I was just making bangles for my family and got myself into this situation. And I was diagnosed with breast cancer at 37, which it's now been 2 years since my diagnosis, which feels like magic to say out loud. My hair is growing back after chemo, but it was a slap in the face a little bit of just And there was good and there was bad, obviously very scary, very, you know, alarming. But stage 1, very treatable, had to go through chemo, had to do a mastectomy. It was like a long process. But it also— I mean, I so quickly was like, okay, bye. Like, I was not worried that I needed to be on an ads call or that, you know, what if, what if I disappear? What if this happens? I 100% was like, my body is, you know, everyone has their cancer theories, but like, I got this for a reason. Not that I was chosen to have cancer, but it taught me something. And it was like, okay, it's time to drop it all and stay home and do literally everything to be calm and centered and healing and positive. There is no stress that is allowed to like come near me. And luckily the business was in a good place. We had very clear values. We had a good team, like things were running. I'm sure there was things that could have been like tweaked and— but it was like, I know that it'll be there in 6 months. And so I promoted our COO Elizabeth to CEO, which was already kind of in the works, and just checked out for a while. And it was really a very powerful time, a very like affirming of the business time because I was able to step away. And it did realign, like, what do I want to be doing with my everyday? I mean, that, that phase of chemo is just months of like the slowest days of your life. And I was also sharing my story on Instagram, which was cathartic and helpful, and I was connecting with other women and it felt like it was never going to end, but it did. And then I kind of was faced with after that, after the healing of chemo and then having a mastectomy and healing of that, like Oh, am I supposed to just like jump back in? Like, what, what is next? Um, and so that's been the phase that I've been kind of the last year of just deciding, you know, now I'm creative director and founder and that's a little bit of a different role. Just deciding everything that comes my way, I'm like, does that feel good or not? Is that super stressful, like turning down travel when it's just too much? Um, I think my team really understands that. I try to set that example for them that I I'll say no to things because I have to like connect with how am I actually feeling. Does this make sense? Yes, sometimes I do things that are just good for the business that aren't, you know, my first choice, but it's a different balance. I think now I just have like much firmer boundaries and a much firmer understanding of what I need to operate.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I mean, watching you on that journey, and you've always been so good at sharing and and, and seeing how you navigated it. And I think, like you said, life will smack you down, like, hold up, what's up? And so we're so fortunate we get another day to do it all. So if you, like, this version of Anne in 2026 went back and talked to Anne before, like, what would you tell her?

Oh my gosh. Um, I think sort of the message that I've, I've been, you know, synthesizing all this information and all the things that I've learned and like I think one of the things that just shocks me about both myself and us as women is like, it really shouldn't take cancer to teach you that lesson or to make you realize that, like, I was already feeling— I'm like more of an introvert. I really do well on my own. I love being home in our house. I also love to travel, but I was already feeling at the time like, I don't want to be in the office every day. This doesn't, you know, I feel like I'm getting dragged, pulled in every direction. I care deeply about our team and sometimes that can like get me, you know, when someone has a personal situation going on, I'm like, oh my gosh. And then I start thinking about how we can help them, which is important. But also it just at the time, I think I was taking on a little too much of everyone else's needs and forcing me to step away was like, oh wow. Like it's kind of like when you have a baby, no one bothers you. When you have cancer, they're like, don't bother her, leave her alone. And it tested the business. It was like, can, can this run? Can this operate? And it it did. Um, and now we're kind of in a new phase coming back, and I'm just taking it a day at a time. But I think I just have a different perspective. I mean, even like the scariest, worst, like, oh my gosh, gold is going to here and this is happening, and I'm like, I have been through some scary shit and this is gonna be okay, we'll figure it out.

Yeah, I like that, the it's gonna be okay, we'll figure it out, because when, when that is laid out in front of you, it's sort of like what really, really matters. And then that perspective— and you're right, it's so interesting because last night I was having this thought. I forget what— oh, I know, I was watching Top Chef. There's a contestant who's a woman who had injured her shoulder and was like pushing through. And then on the last episode, her face started to droop and she started to not be able to function, and she was going to keep going.

Oh my gosh.

And it took them to be like, you got to go to the emergency room, you got to step off. And I was thinking about it compared to all the other contestants and thinking, she's not the first. I'm a model of that. I, I've pushed through all— I launched— when I launched my first course, Multistream Machine, I was literally just post-surgery within like 8 hours and getting my gallbladder out. And then like, you were literally just crying. And I was like, but we had this launch, right? So like, I'm not gonna lie, I've definitely been that psychopath as well. But I was just like, what you said, why does it take, especially for us, to get knocked down so hard.

Yeah.

To shift our perspective and our ambition.

Yeah. And I think sometimes it's a little bit of, what are people gonna think? Or they're gonna think I'm this, or lazy, or selfish. Like, it's all some story you've told yourself that— or some deep, you know, insecurity. But I think that it's okay to identify, like, this isn't working for me, I've got to figure out what it is. And then, like, say that out loud, make some new— and sometimes it does take stepping out a little bit. I think as the business owner, I've I feel like the more women I've talked to who own businesses are like, I just want to like go to yoga. I'm like, go to yoga, go take your morning. And no one has to know where you are. You don't have to say, I'll be here at 10 because I was going to grab a coffee and then I have a meeting. And then they don't— that's none— no one's business. Like, it's okay to take the time that you need to get your things done, to not feel like you're in fight or flight every morning, especially with children. You know, I mean, as you know, I was thinking about that. Not many people I work with have kids. A few of our team members do, and they obviously understand what it's like, but sometimes I would like get to work or be just like— I also am always 5 to 10 minutes late. It's just a, it's just a personality trait. I, I don't hold it against myself, but, and everyone knows it, but just feeling that, like running out the door with 2 drinks in your hand and 3 things and all that stuff. And then I would kind of pause and be like, well, how did ever— how did someone like work out and like meal prep and get to work? And I'm like, because I woke up at you know, 6:15, fought with my daughter about her uniform for 20 minutes, like got everything ready, cooked breakfast, tried to get the dishes in the sink, and then realized our cleaners were coming and got the sheet, you know, just all those little things that send you on that path. It's like, give yourself time. Maybe I need an extra hour in the morning. Maybe just identifying those things, even if they feel like, well, but then I'd be late to that meeting. Move the meeting. Like these things are in your control. I think we often just create the story that I can't change that because someone's going to think this, or it works for them. Like, something else probably will work for them. It's okay to say out loud, this isn't working for me, I'm stressed out trying to get here. Like, go grab a coffee on your way to work, build in the time and the buffer so that you're not like acting like a crazy person, and then you're not resentful of either work or your family.

Yeah, it's, it's sort of like we think that there's some private judge. Like, am I being good? Am I bad? Am I a good mom? Am I bad? Am I a good boss? Am I bad? It's like always this, this version of judgment, but it's our own. It's our own created. And we started these businesses. You started yours, I started mine. It gets to align with our life. And like, a model of that for me is I'm in a program and one of my coaches was like, finds what— like, what do I really want, right? And I was like, well, kind of like I used to think like wealthy women go to Pilates and have coffee in the middle of the day and they meet up with their girlfriends. And I'm like, what? It's like, I could do that. I'm just choosing not to. And so I got, I got given this like challenge to say, well, what would my ideal day look like? What do I need? And I was at burnout because I lost my mom last year to cancer and just grief. And I just kept going. And didn't give myself time to stop. And I was hitting a burnout stage. And so they're like, well, what would happen if you just stopped? And I was like, what do you mean? What? Yeah, because I felt like I literally can't— like, I could not stop. And so I did. I was like, okay, that the stretchiest thing I could do for myself this week is actually call my team. I called Lauren, who runs the company. She's my, you know, like, more or less CEO. And I was like, I think I'm going to take the entire week off. I need you to cancel everything, shift it, or, or have someone else step in. And so what that led to— and then I was getting real weird about it. I was like, okay, maybe I'll take that call, and maybe I'll take that call. And then she's like, no, yes, stop. It took like boundaries. And what happened in that was that— and you know, some of my students might be listening, like, oh, that's what happened that week. Um, you know, I had other advisors that are on my team step step in and hold the calls that I was going to take, and everything was fine. I canceled things and shifted them. I decided I wasn't going to do certain things, and my team— it gave my team permission to step up. It gave me permission to be like, I don't have to be all the parts. Yeah. And I was so refreshed. Like, after that week, I was like, I felt like I turned a corner because it was like, I can't just stop. So I proved it to myself. So what if I did just stop?

Yeah, what would happen? Yeah, I mean, it's extremely important. I remember like thinking about, you know, taking our kids on spring break, and to my team it's like, oh, you're going on vacation for a week, which I am, but you know, depending on the age of your kids, it's not really—

not me. Yeah.

And so I'm like, why don't we take a spring, you know, why don't I take like a spring week where you're just like, yeah, home, out of the office? And so now post-cancer, I have a 2-day in-office week. And I'm kind of clear on what days I'm available, when I can take calls. Like, people are welcome to request things, but generally on Mondays I'm like, those are my like, figure out what my week looks like, maybe get a walk in, do a workout. And then Fridays also. And yeah, work might creep in, I might end up scheduling something, but it's just like, I know for myself on Sunday night, oh, tomorrow's a day where I, I am setting the schedule. Like, nothing is being like, I'm not up against a deadline. I can add things to my calendar as I need. And that's made a big difference for me, just kind of creating that boundary. And, and of course it took like cancer to make that feel okay, but it's just okay. That's just what I need to make sense for me.

Yeah. So sounds like you have the CEO still. So now you're founder and creative director.

Yes.

How, how's that? Because that's something I think, and that goes into exactly what you said years ago, where you're like I just want to, you know, create and then like get the reports and be with the people. So how's that now? Like someone's running the day-to-day of the company and you get to be in where your zone of genius.

Yeah. I mean, having someone who's in all the details and making sure all the, you know, state taxes get paid and the HR situations and the questions answered is wonderful. I mean, it gave me the space to really— it gives me the space to look at the business and how it's doing from as a whole. I think understanding where we need to reach out and make connections and, you know, edit product and all of that, it just— my brain was not meant for that. I love to digest data and see, you know, trends and information and then form and like use my gut to make decisions. But having someone in the data is really helpful. Um, we— and we were growing like at this rate that it was like, we need some structure. Like, we are going to break if we don't get some really— even just things like inventory tracking. I mean, God knows in 2018 I was like, there's just like drawers of stuff and we need, you know, meticulous inventory tracking. We've had a theft, we've had, you know, we all have to be insured. And so things like that that I'm like, that feels like a mountain to me. I can't deal with that. And that's something that she can handle. So That's been wonderful. It's definitely helped me to step back. And now we're in a new phase where gold is double, well, quadruple the price of what it was in 2016. And we're just navigating that. And I feel like I'm kind of having to step back in with a little more strategy than I have been over the last maybe 18 months because it's just now it's kind of back to that like, oh, what does our customer actually need and want and How are we like shifting in this world where we cannot get Instagram views to save our lives? And you know, ads are a whole thing. We actually did not do a single paid ad until 2024, and then we started. And now it's like once you've started, you can't stop. And we're figuring it all out. But I've enjoyed the— I always enjoy a challenge and an opportunity, um, but this is a new one for us, like changing the price of our products that drastically has been tough. It's been really an interesting shift in the business. Our, our volume understandably is going to come down because we don't have that lower price point piece. And so now we're kind of catering to a higher price point and just figuring out how to be efficient with that to make our customers feel great about what they're buying, even though they may be like, what just happened? Yeah. I mean, luckily gold is Googleable, so like some people are dealing with tariffs and with, you know, behind the scenes costs that I think customers don't understand as much. So it's very clear why our prices are what they are, but it just happened so quickly.

Yeah, I remember too, gold has jumped and you were going to tell them we're raising our prices because gold has jumped and we were like, no, because then they're going to buy when gold prices come down.

Yeah, I mean, we effectively have never had that issue, which is crazy. Like We have had customers say, well, what if it comes down? And it will drop $100, $200 here and there this last time. But the way we do it, I mean, we're, we're so conservative about our price increase that typically if gold drops, it's like right around where we already were. So and of course, now people are like, is this the new normal? Is it going to go up? I wish I had a crystal ball. I wish I understood because it's just this gold is tied to financial security across the globe, and it's very confusing and complex. And I've talked to a lot of very smart people, and they're like, it's, it's just like the stock market. I mean, one day it can be here, one day it can be there. So I've been trying really to project out, like, what does the business look like if we stay right here? What does it look like if it does go down a little bit or up? And just trying to kind of protect our team and make sure that we're, you know, going about this in a smart way so that we can keep serving our customers. Yeah.

And I think that the interesting thing is that at every level it's going to require a different level up, which it sounds like, you know, you've been navigating. And then we have these external circumstances that almost force our hand. So I'll say I had that year last year for me. Yeah. And so, you know, just the world changed. Tariffs happened. People were like, we don't want courses anymore, right? And that was our main thing. It was like, yeah, like, I don't want to sit on a Zoom call any longer. So it required this massive shift for me to reinvent and innovate what The Product Boss was going to look like 2026 and beyond. And it's freaking amazing and crushing. I introduced The Collective, which is kind of a hybrid of what you experience in our Mastermind, but then with education and the environment and in-person events, just this incredible community. So I was like, this is where the shift, but the turn was not easy and very scary in the way of like, will this work? Will they want it? Yeah, it also required a shift in customers because somebody who buys a course is different than someone who invests in a year-long high-level experience. So it sounds like that's what is being called on for you at this point. It's like, because people are still buying gold, right?

There's no—

people are still buying jewelry, maybe not in mass quantities because they double think, but you know, I've got my other hand has Cartier on it. Cartier is selling, right? So what shifts have you— it sounds like where you're stepping in, but like, I guess what's the opportunity available for you here? I want to like shift it into that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The opportunity is that at a high volume with fine jewelry, there's actually a lot of stress on the organization. There's a lot of jewelers, there's a lot of shipments, there's a lot of kind of liability of, you know, things can break and get lost. And it was all fine. It was working well. But just imagining like, oh wow, if this volume continues, you know, we fix repairs, we do this and that. So as we decrease our volume, increase our price point, we actually are having a little less stress on the organization because we're doing some more custom pieces that take a little longer, a little more wear and care, you know, are explained to the customer. They maybe aren't wearing their stuff as hard and we're able to really hone in on those customers. We also have 10 years of data, so that is like exciting to me. I'm Like, I obsessed. Claude is my best friend. And yeah, it's like, take what we learned. I mean, it's very clear what happened. It was like prices went up, volume went, you know, it just adjusted. So now I think we can kind of use that predictively to understand what to lean into. And we're just getting more specific where— and it's so funny, this is something I— this is advice I gave to a business owner very recently, which I needed to hear myself. It's like the question is, where did someone hear about you? And where is their best friend going to hear about you? Like, it's so simple. It really, for us, especially with fine jewelry, typically they're not just like, I saw a random Instagram ad. I mean, sometimes, you know, but we have great— our trunk show pop-ups that are around the country. Like, that's wonderful for us when someone sees us in person. Customers who are already customers love to see us at those events who aren't national because they like, I've never seen this in person. And we hear all the time, I didn't think I would love this, but I do. And they tend to spend more. So physically going to places— our trunk shows have increased dramatically. The team is really working on that. Um, just getting people into the store, more like clienteling, more segmenting. You know, we had kind of gotten to this like mass email send, and our email list is wonderful. It's been super important for us. But now it's like, okay, if If someone has gotten emailed about this one, you know, our Étoile, which is a very popular release, it comes maybe twice a year, but it's now, gosh, $3,854-something. It's gotten quite expensive. So it's like that person might be like, stop emailing me about this. You know, this is never going to be my price point. So maybe we want to reach out to them with like our heart bangle. We just added a heart to our original bangle. So it doesn't make it like wildly more expensive, but it's a fun little twist add-on. And just really thinking carefully about how to serve that customer with what is going to be in their price point, what they're excited about. We do offer like sample sales and fun little one-offs here and there, but not— we're not doing like big launches of like new collections right now because as you know, inventory and gold, that's an expensive thing to hold. So we're really trying to lean back into like what we do well, storytelling, sharing why solid 14-karat gold is a good investment and is a piece that you're going to have the rest of your life. Because I think now that gold is so expensive, understandably, a plated piece is like $150 to $300. People are like, well, just get that. And that's a fashion piece. So it's beautiful. And there's so many great brands out there. But you can't wear that 24/7, you know, in a couple of years, it'll start to wear and you'll have to have it replated. And that's a whole different thing. So just kind of educating our customer around like, this isn't a trend, we are not trend jewelry, we are like 40th birthday jewelry, you know, anniversary jewelry, jewelry that should celebrate a milestone in your life that you can depend on and wear every day and like not be afraid it's going to tarnish or anything bad is going to happen to it. And that does require obviously spending a little more.

Yeah. And I would say that lasts lifetimes.

Yes, many, many.

Because like I'm wearing with your bangles, I'm wearing the bangles. They were my mom's. And then I've also got a couple that I bought when I had my kids as my own before I knew you. So my own like bump gift to myself because the ones I have from you are when I had my ex-co-founder. We bought for our, you know, our 3 years in business together. We hit our first million. So yeah, I mean, there's— and I think that's where a lot of entrepreneurs, business owners, CEOs will get— maybe not CEO, but I would say the, the owner, the founder will get scarcity and be like, well, maybe in order to keep selling quantities, we should start making cheaper jewelry that's gold-plated.

Yeah.

Or let's throw in some earrings and cheaper products and keep like throwing things at them.

Yeah.

Versus that shift that you're making.

Yeah. And I think we did test some of that. You know, it's very natural to be like, what's complimentary? If they're only buying a bangle once a year, what do they want for graduation? You know, so we, we've added some product categories, um, and some of them make total sense and have been great, and some of them don't. And it's really just not investing too much, pivoting, like being clear. I think 2023 was the year of a lot of launches, and I saw— sometimes it just takes seeing firsthand how much work that was for my team. I was like, Oh, this is a lot. Like, we are constantly having to communicate across the organization about this launch and can these be made in this color and how long does it take to order? And, you know, for products that maybe weren't producing the same price point, it's like, what if we just didn't make that $2,000 from that launch? You know, all in all, that would have relieved everyone of their time. And that is an equation that I think gets a little messy as your business grows. And I'm like really trying to tighten up right now, which is if you're at a great volume and you're making great revenue and like a healthy profit, it's just so easy to start adding more meetings and adding more like, oh, well, let's talk about this and dream about this. And what about this? And I, you know, kind of joke with my CEO. I'm like, everyone's got like a number over their head. Like, what does it cost per hour for that person to be in this meeting? What does it— and I never want my employees to think that it's like a negative thing. It's a, it's a positive thing. I want them to think that way too. Like, I've been sitting here doing this menial task for 2 hours. I'm worth more than that. Like, this should be outsourced. This should be— Claude can do this, you know. Is— are we doing this the right way? Because all of that money comes out of the margin of a product, so it needs to live somewhere. And I think that's where it can just kind of get out of hand as you grow, unless you're really keeping tabs on dialing in on like what's working for us, what's producing, you know, I forget the stat that you used to share, which was like 80% of your revenue should come from 20% of your products.

And it's the truth.

And then there's some other pieces and things that work well and we're doing more custom, but it does take, and it's hard because you can get like bored as a founder. You're like, I don't want to market that same thing again. Or like, we've already told the story. There's new eyeballs, there's new people. Like, selling inventory, selling what you have is like an important skill that you just constantly have to bring back to your team.

Yeah, really great points. How big is your team now?

So we have, I believe, 16. We let a few jewelers go in the last couple of weeks just because our volume is not there. And so that's hard. I mean, it's probably one of the worst parts of business is like being the one responsible for having to take someone's livelihood away, but at the same time, it's like a parent, like, you know what's best for the whole team and the organization and to keep giving everyone benefits and making sure that we're a healthy organization. So we downsized our studio a little bit, and now I think we're in a really good spot to just like adapt, keep going, and just kind of see what this new year is going to bring with gold where it is. Hopefully it's sticking around the same place.

It's an investment, everyone. It's an investment, right? We're like hoarding our gold. Um, what does your business need from you now, like, as you level up into this next season?

I think it needs my kind of clarity and gut instinct again, which it always has. And there have been times I've been a little like, oh, I don't know, I'm not a numbers person, you know. I don't— I'm not great at like people— I don't have a business degree, but I do always have like a clear sight of, especially when I have the data and information like, ooh, this isn't working, or this is taking too much from our team, or it's not panning out the way we thought it was going to. So that clear vision. And then with all the shifts that have happened in socials and ads and everything, I have like a founder's account on Instagram, and I've always been very like upfront that I have no— I don't want to be famous. I like, I'm not— I don't love being public speaking and being in the public eye, but What the business does need is the story to be told. And if our story can be told effectively to more people through my account casually, and I can just get it out there, that's what it needs. Because brand accounts right now are just struggling to see anything. And I, I get it, even as a consumer, it's like you're not engaging with a ton of brands. And so where I can be of value is sharing the story from my perspective and my account and like just kind of feeding the whole PR of the business.

That's really clear. Yeah, yeah, it is interesting. There's, you know, it's even like, um, oh my gosh, uh, facts, why am I thinking on her company? Um, my daughter's whole room is designed from it, all the flowery dresses. Um, Lily Pulitzer? No, how am I blinking? Love Chat Fancy. Love Shack Fancy. So Love Shack Fancy, I've watched that brand grow. It's like $800 slip dresses.

Yes.

And, and Bex, it's Bex NYC, which is her account. And it's like that has more engagement because they can post all the beautiful models and the dresses and whatever. But it's like watching the behind the scenes.

Yeah.

So it's really— I mean, you've always been forefront of understanding social and what's required. But what I really like about what you're saying, and this is what came up for me and my, you know, my co-founder when we were deciding like who was going to take the business, it was starting to look at the company as its own entity. So like you call it the organization. So looking at it and saying, if this thing gets to last, this thing gets to succeed, this thing gets to serve the people, our customers, our clients, what does it need from me right now? And I think that's where we get to step in, even if you're not the CEO anymore, the steward of holding the vision because that's how you created this. That's— that is your special sauce.

Yeah, that's always been important to me. I think people ask like, oh, what's the goal? What's the vision? You know, do you want to sell? And this and that. I'm like, I just want someone who bought a bangle in 2016 to be able to continue to get a quality piece of jewelry that's made well, that they trust to tell their story. Like, they started this family tradition. I want to be around for them to continue it. That's kind of all that's important to me. Obviously, we want to be financially sound. And, you know, I'm really proud of like the— what I provided for our family because my husband's an entrepreneur and started his business around the same time. So it really enabled us to pursue those dreams at the same time. But I don't have any, I think, ego around or like some grand scheme of grow, grow, grow. And I'm actually really glad that like the way it was looking in 2020, 2021. I mean, when you hear the stories of the amount of money people took and the amount of money was that was being given out, like people were saying to me at the time, you could have an investor, you could do this. And it's like, I don't want a man telling me what to do, um, but also it was like, if we had done that, which we could have— I mean, we were so profitable, we were doing so well, we're growing, growing— we would have overextended ourselves. We would have had multiple stores, we would have tried too hard too fast, and then Gold would have gone to where it was. And now it's very manageable. We can figure it out, we can pivot, we have a smaller team, one store, you know. But had we overextended and like gotten a little too excited and gone crazy with growth, we could be in a difficult spot right now.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you trust that everything's like the universe is rigged in your favor, then, and you trust the process, it's It's like, okay, you followed your gut and you've always reached, but you followed, you followed your gut and then that's sort of what's led you and that's what's led you to where you are today.

Yeah.

And still following your gut.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, it's not that it's perfect all the time or that I always even trust my own like intuition, but usually the way it plays out, it's like, okay, yeah, we kind of knew this, you know, this is the next step. Whether it's a person being right for the team or sales or, you know, products. Like, we're just remembering to trust your gut even when everything else is a little unpredictable is important.

Yeah, 100%. So what would you tell people, like, people who are in that six figures, people who are in seven figures, people who have not yet— maybe they don't have a team of 15 or 20 and own a building and a retail shop and all the amazingness that you've created. What, what do you think, what do you want them to know in this moment?

I think that one of the most important parts of supporting yourself as a founder is like seeing what's magical about you in the business and handing off other parts to people who can do those deep dives. Because many founders are probably like me where you can get on a deep dive, you can spiral, you can get on AI and be like, I'm going to become a Meta ads expert or whatever it is, but protect your time and your peace. And also you can hire people that are great at things. I do think there's a shift where you go from needing a bunch of generalists to like a few specialists. So that's a hard shift because you may outgrow what you need, you may outgrow your team, but just being aware of like, okay, it's sort of like design your dream day. Someone's coming to me with all this good data about our customers and what they're doing and their behaviors, and, and then they're helping me to know what's my next step. Okay, I need to lean into socials more, I need to, you know, do more design, product development, whatever it is. But not being afraid to kind of say that out loud, like, this is what I need in order to continue to serve the business, and then making choices from there. Also, if you are in a phase of growth, managing people is a full-time job. So if you don't have someone to manage those people, I think there's a rule that like you shouldn't talk to more than like 4 people in your organization. If you get to 6 or 7 or 8 or 9, that is now your full-time job.

It is.

Managing people is the job. And so if you don't have time for that, you're starting to get resentful and mad, and you're not doing a very good job, you need a manager to manage the people, and that's hard. So I always recommend hiring contractors. Just try people out, you know, test trials, things like that, because it is a lot easier to end an engagement with a contractor than it is to to fire an employee or having to go through a process of doing a PIP or, you know, performance and all of that stuff. It just takes a lot of time and energy. So those are my tips and tricks for that kind of growth phase.

Yeah, and I think anyone that's afraid of hiring— you did it slowly. It started with getting you out of production. Yeah, it was like a skill to somebody who was already a jeweler, who was already skilled, and it's like, hey, can you do this thing?

But I think what I've noticed is a lot of times people will be like, okay, I need a helper, and they just like interview 2 people and then they pick one of those 2 people. No, that's not— you need to create a job description, have applicant— it may take a little longer— have applicants who are good, well-suited for that job. And then you need to be obnoxiously clear about your expectations. And that can be hard for women too. I've known a lot of women who are like, oh my God, she's wearing sweatpants to work. This is so annoying. And they're like, Like, did you tell her not to wear sweatpants? Like, you can assume so many things, but if you are not crystal clear and if you're not willing to say, hey, just a heads up, I noticed you're wearing sweatpants. So cool, I love sweatpants. We don't do that in the office. So tomorrow, if you can do jeans, whatever, have Claude write up a little, you know, here's our dress code. I didn't even cross my mind. No big deal. Of course you're not in trouble because I never explained this to you. But if you're not willing to set that boundary, all that stuff is going to start like bother. Oh my gosh, they're eating in the office, they're doing this, that— the gossip, the— that is a waste of your time. Just tell people what you want, how you want it done. You are the boss, you're paying them. That can be really hard for people.

I 100% agree. I think, I think that there's two things there. One, it's just being direct and like setting— it's setting the vision, setting the tone. So what do you want? And you say what you want. And I think that's one of the things that, you know, I work with my clients in the 6 and 7 figure range, it's like really establishing what their standard operating procedures are, what their— what key performance indicators to track so that you could measure people against those. Because everybody wants to win. Like, people who work for you want to be like, what's the measurement of success? What are you gauging me on?

Right.

Um, yeah, for sure. Like, please don't use your phone, or do XYZ. And, and it's true, it's like this fear of— I think I'm going to generalize, but for women, it's like that we're going to be called names, like, yeah, bitchy, or to whatever, like feelings, or make them angry. Like, yeah, it's okay. Yeah, it's like, great, this is, this is the way we professionally show up. I think the other thing that I tell my clients, and I was sharing it with one of my clients today, was inspect what you expect. So if you have an expectation of something— because I have a client that's at a million dollars right now, she's got a jewelry company, she's still doing it. Yeah, a lot of it herself, and is bottleneck and distribu— and, and shipping and fulfillment is her husband and her, and she's afraid to hand stuff off. And I was like, well, set, set the standard operating procedure, have KPIs, train someone into it. And then she's like, well, how could I ever go away? I could never leave the office. I'd never be able to get my business to $10 million because I, I'll lose it all. Like, no, you get reports and you inspect it because you'll always— like you're saying, you'll always have this gauge on your business. You know the health It's like my kids. I don't have to give them a thermometer. I know if they have a fever.

Yeah, yeah, you can tell, you know.

Right. So it's the same thing with your business. It's like, we're not asking you to step out unless you really want to step out, and then you hire the people like you did. But what's it going to take to— I think there's a solution to every, every problem that people create, but then a lot of times we get in the way and create our own problems to make those problems even harder.

Yes, we do. And it's also kind of constant. I think that's where people can make a mistake of being like, "But it was working," or, you know, "That person was doing well until this," or, you know, "Our team—" Things change, things shift. And that is the attitude I try to bring to the office, I hope, is like, "Huh, that is not working anymore. Weird. What should we do next?" Instead of finger-pointing or, you know, Whose idea was this? Or like, yeah, why are we— that doesn't even work. Like, I've made decisions. I've been like, yeah, let's launch these earrings. Oh my God, this bombed. Like, that's okay, that's on me. We're gonna— let's try again. What— and then you have to talk about it. What worked? What didn't work? Like, let's be clear. I think if people don't realize that, like, we can own our mistakes, like, set that example as a leader. We can own our mistakes. We can say out loud Man, that didn't really work. Like, how can we do that differently? Just coming at things with curiosity can be such a powerful, like, teaching tool, leadership tool, and it takes the pressure off yourself. Like, we're not perfect. I'm like, this is the first time I've ever, you know, been the CEO of a company or the creative director of a company. Like, I'm doing my best, we're all doing our best, and just putting that energy out I think helps everyone to feel a little more relaxed in their role.

Yeah, I like to say Like if I'm source and in ownership of everything that happens in my company, first I get to ask myself like, where in ownership do I get to be? If something went wrong, did I not train on it? Did I not ask about it? Like where did I— and it's not a blame thing. It's like, where can I first take ownership to see the gap? Then exactly what you said, going to my, let's say an employee and saying like, okay, so where was the breakdown here? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because you just get to be in curiosity there. No one's trying to, I mean, we get to be in curiosity because I think we're always leveling up our own leadership, right? Leaders are learning to lead as we go. It might be innate in you, like you might have— I started a newspaper in 5th grade, right? But, but it wasn't— I'm still learning how to lead a team and a business of this size and be a mom, be a wife, be a sister, um, navigate my own grief, right? And so it's like, of course there's no playbook to this. So it's I think what you're saying is give yourself grace. Yeah, to give yourself grace and give your team grace.

And it's also okay just to be like, wow, someone didn't meet my expectations. Like, that's, I think, a bigger part of growing up. And I'm turning 40 on Friday. Happy birthday! Thank you. And just, yeah, being a leader where you're like, oh, okay, something went wrong, or, you know, there was a negative emotion or a hard conversation or something. I hope that my intentions and the way that I presented that, I hope that person received that well and they're going to do X, Y, and Z. No guarantee. Like, we all receive information and feedback and instructions based on our own situations and our lives. And so I think I've gotten a lot better, a lot better at kind of walking into conversation, like even having to let people go. It sucks. It's terrible. And I know, understandably, that those people are looking at me and our CEO like, I'm pissed. Like, how dare you? And as they should. It's hard. But I can leave that meeting knowing I want what's best for that person. It's not personal. Unfortunately, it's a layoff based on our numbers and it's what's best for the organization. And doesn't mean I'm not going to be, you know, sick to my stomach about it the night before and like, oh, this is hard. And then you're going to do the hard thing. And then you're going to move on to the next, like, choices and decisions you have to make. And just like being a good human, like wanting what's best for those people, maybe giving them a great reference if possible, like setting them up with someone else in town. It's just you don't have to then turn on yourself or like go down this rabbit hole. If I had done this differently or this differently, then this wouldn't be happening. I've just gotten better at like leaving those things where they need to be, I think.

Yeah, I'm going to do an episode on my year last year because I had a lot of shifts like this. So I know, I'll get into it. But okay, let's cut to a year from now. Okay, so we're right before your 41st birthday. Yes. What are we celebrating? And like, what's, what's happened in this year?

I love that question. Work-wise, I think we're just going to be kind of very confident and comfortable with the new normal of like where the gold price is, what that means for our customer base. I think it's going to require just more one-on-one, like a smaller group of more focused attention to our customers. And that's a good thing. There's more conversations, there's a little less like stress about the numbers and the funnel. It's like more, you know, we have these amazing customers referring us out. I think our trunk shows will be even more. I think we'll be doing just more events and kind of experiences with people that love the brand. And then personally, I hope to be just traveling a lot. My husband and I are taking our girls to Croatia and London this summer. So I've now been to Europe 2 summers in a row, which I feel very spoiled, and I want to— I would love to make that a thing. Um, yes. And I want to have a garden in our yard that's planted and be— I don't know, been considering chickens. I'm like turning into the chicken lady. Um, but it's just a lot of like appreciating what I've already built. To be honest, like I want to enjoy it. I don't wanna be crazy stressed or like trying to scramble to get to some place we used to be. I wanna like take the adaptations as they come, figure out what's next, have a strong, confident team who's capable, which they are, and continue to like grow in leadership and they grow in their roles. And I wanna just sit on the couch and have slow mornings on Mondays and Fridays, especially with a cup of tea. Connect with my friends, like continue to do all the things that just like make me feel like I've built a good life. Mm, it's beautiful. Thank you.

And none of that really required you saying like, I'm gonna do more and hustle harder and all that. It was like, look at what's working. Yeah, hold that. And then it wasn't gripping harder, it was actually releasing and living your life.

Yeah, it's— I think at some point you really have to find what I mean, I've honed that skill over 10 years. What is working and what is not? And there may be a time period where you don't really know. And we've had that shift with gold prices and we're like, huh, wow, this is changing. We're having to figure this out. But our customers are coming back. We continue to make sales. Like we have really happy established customers. And so it's like, what are we doing well for them? What can we continue to do? Keep offering people, whether it's collaborations, like fun variations of our products. And just telling the story, like again and again, in any way that like reaches people and connects with them. Because the point of all of this for me is for women to tell their story with fine jewelry, to have something that they love, and that they feel celebrated by, and they can pass down for generations. And then those generations will tell that story. That's the part. It's like the ongoing storytelling of this special piece that my grandmother wore, and this is why, and she was so funny, and she always wore this lipstick. It's like it gets you talking about these women and, and the reasons that they have these signature pieces and the milestones in their life.

So beautiful. So if anyone out there wants to set a milestone— yes, bangle— how, how do we get to— like, where's— let's talk about your personal brand page, Yearly Co, all of it.

How do we get So yearlyco.com is our website, Yearly Company on Instagram, and Anne B. Williams, Anne without an E. That's my personal Instagram. So you can follow my whole journey there. It's a little wild. It's like breast cancer survivor jewelry. What should I wear on this trip? Home stuff, everything. And then yeah, Yearly Co. If you sign up for email list, you get a free sizing kit. So our main special piece of our bangles is that we make them in 11 custom sizes. So if you've been like, I don't do bangles because they're too big or they're too small, now you can because we customize our bangle sizes. So you get a free kit in the mail. It's brass bangles. Try them on, see what your fit is. And then the next big event you have coming up, make a wish list, send it to your husband, to your sister, to your mom, to your best friend. Um, we have— we love watching like women go in together for a 40th birthday, things like that. And you can pick your first bangle and then build your stack over time until you have a wristful.

A wristful. I love it. I love it. And that's one of the things I always love about following on social too, is I'm like, what's my next bangle? Let me go see what Anne's posted, right? Because you'll show it with watches, you'll show the big bangle and all of it.

I mean, I've never seen a bad stack, honestly.

I've never seen a bad stack either. I also learned how to walk through the TSA security machine because of you.

Uh-huh, pinch them. I just go through the machine, I got too many.

But yeah, exactly. So, but that's, you know, and I think that's the quality of like the kind of social media that you've created where it's, it's still super helpful, it helps us pick stuff out, it's on brand, but then there's other, there's other things on there. So you're just a master class in showing up online and adapting, and then also the growth of a business and the adaptations but how you keep showing up because you're relentless and you're resilient and you're incredible.

Thank you. Well, it's worth just, yeah, figuring out as we go, taking the data, using your gut. I mean, there is no answer, sadly. There's no secret lever, but I'm just trying all of them.

And keep going. I think that's the secret lever. It's like the only way people fail is when they give up and they just stop. Yes, yes. Keep going, keep adapting, keep iterating, and it'll, it'll evolve to whatever it's meant to be.

I also think keep supporting other people, other women, other brands, other— we can get very like focused on like, well, mine's not doing well and I need this and what I need. And some of the best things that have happened to me in the past 10 years have been because at some point I formed a relationship. I was supportive. I was like reaching out, I was commenting and liking. And, you know, be the person you want to be to other brands and other founders and other people. And that will come back to you in the universe in some way.

Beautiful way to end this. Thanks, Anne, for being on the show. Um, everyone reach out if, like, send her a message, tell her what you think. Yes, please. From her, send, send it to your spouse. Um, and I can't wait to get your next update soon.

Yes, we'll see what's next.

Thanks, Jacqueline Snyder Snyder. Thank you. Thank you for being here and listening all the way through the Product Boss Podcast. If you love our show and it has helped you in any way in your business, would you mind doing two things for us? Subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode and leave us a review. Reviews help other product entrepreneurs know that this is the place to be to grow their businesses and realize that they're not alone. And we know that you all know that a 5-star and honest review helps you sell more products to more people. So you know that your reviews help us reach more more listeners around the world. Remember, what we give is what we receive, and we are all about helping each other in the Product Boss community. We are all in this together. We would be so appreciative of you if you could take the time right now to subscribe, leave a review, and even share this episode on social or someone you know so we can impact more lives. And remember, subscribing means that you will get notified each time we release a new episode so you never miss a thing. You have helped us grow and climb into the top 10 of all marketing podcasts, and together we can keep climbing. Thank you, friends, and remember, there is room at the top for all of us.