755. The Real Secret to Growing Through Wholesale in Today’s Market with Rebecca Gale

The thing that people miss is they make products to just make a product, but they're missing the connection between the end consumer.

Something that we need to keep in mind is when you're selling accessories, because that is the category that we all fall under, it is not food, shelter, water, clothing. It is not a necessity. When you're speaking to people that are lucky enough to work really hard and have expendable income and focus on accessories, You need to also look at the other stressors of their life. Who are we helping if we're not speaking to people directly and meeting them where they are? The real focus 100% of the time needs to be the customer.

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder, and this is the Product Boss Podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product-based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses, I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into a successful business, and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million-dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next Million Dollar Product Boss. Let's do this. All right, so tell me about what you make and sell, where you're selling it. Like, give me, give me some more like info background on the company.

So Gale Studio just passed our 6-month mark, and my daughter just turned 17 months, so it's been a really fun time this last year and a half or so. I started the company because I was specifically looking for something that I could not find. I was a luxury retail executive. My wardrobe, while beautiful, is wholly impractical for new mothership and also having an aging dog at the time. If you know, you know, you know, there's a, there's a lot to clean up, right? So my entire wardrobe was too precious for my life transition. And, you know, sizing and everything, it— the whole thing was just kind of— for the first time at, you know, 35 years old, for the first time I felt uncomfortable in my own skin. So I was looking for— I love bags. I'm a— my whole career has been in luxury jewelry and watches, and I just— I've always loved bags. And so I was looking for something that I could rough up a little bit, you know, and not be as precious and still be stylish and like good looking and feel like me. And I didn't find that anywhere that was for a reasonable price point. I will say that my algorithm is probably ruined by my career as a merchant and as a customer. I'm pretty far apart. So I'd say that I was looking for something affordable that felt good and I didn't find it and I kind of got mad that I couldn't find it. And so I built it.

Amazing.

Like I said, my whole career has been in wholesale. That makes me really, really happy. I love connecting with people and better understanding customer behavior. I've been, because of my career, kind of tracking customer behavior in the US and then further to North America. For the last 10 years or so. So when I started this company, I knew that I wanted to end up in wholesale. And so I've been thinking of that from the very beginning. I'm still direct-to-consumer right now. I'm an e-commerce store online, and my— I've been having a lot of wholesale conversations, but we're actually in a really interesting point in the brand. I'm not sure when this comes out, but Saturday I have a really exciting opportunity. Madewell on Fifth Avenue and 20th and Flatiron has invited Eel Studio to present. So we are going to have an awesome, super, super fun event. We've gotta have— we're gonna have live chain stitch embroidery, the entire beautiful canvas bag collection. I have a tight— because of Sales Accelerator, I have a tight offering. I've got 6 silhouettes, 3 core bags, 3 accessories. My duffel and my 2 totes are my core bags. I bundle with accessories. I've got a Dopp kit, an accessories pouch, and a wine tote, which I did send you, so I hope you got that. Thank you. It was back in like February, so I hope you have that. Yeah, of course. But I really wanted to focus on my ideal customer and meet them where they are so that I could support them in multiple areas of their life. So I really focused in on work, weekend, and gifting. So we've kind of got the 3 buckets where we're meeting them. And in the sales that I've had so far, I've kind of discovered two personas, if you will, that identify very strongly with my brand. So that so far has been the— much like me, to no one's surprise— person in transition. Since 2020, I think culturally we have had a lot of transitions.

You think?

We're talking corporate to stay at home to work from home.

I know.

To back to the office. Hybrid. Yeah, 100%. I mean, they're— everybody's head has been on a swivel, as have our locations. There's been the great migration. Everybody's moving everywhere. I mean, I think you yourself went from East Coast to West Coast or back to West Coast, I believe. Yeah. So I mean, it's super relatable. Everybody in these big, big life transitions, while largely positive, we have to admit there's a bit of a loss of identity, a loss of style sometimes. And for someone who that mattered a lot to me, I suddenly didn't know how to get dressed, which is really a stressful kind of experience. And so I think focusing on accessories and what really lights me up and is fun and is easy to share with people The people going through these transitions are the ones that are really resonating with the bags and the brand. And then my second persona that's really come through from the data is a gifter, somebody that is just— everybody knows one, just an empath in your, in your life, in your friend group, in your family who goes online, has discovered this brand. They're really excited about it and they're coming back to buy the exact same thing or multiples. So I'm excited to kind of, no pun intended, like tug at these threads and see where they lead. I want to do more events and get in front of my customers to kind of hear directly from them, what are you looking for, so I can like meet you where you are. So good.

Um, I'll say that I knew about the event at Madewell because your website is super updated. So it's in your popup, it's on the hero. I'm like, yes, I'm trying. Yeah, like you land there, you know it, right? And then I think also the fact that it was like Madewell x Gale Studios, like, like legitimizes you all of a sudden in this popup. So, so good. Totally. So going back, like, your superpower is that you have experience in this space? What was your career like? What, what did you actually do in, in the retail space?

Yeah, so I have a dual degree from FIT. I was a bench jeweler for 2 years. I had my degree in jewelry design and also in marketing. So I'm very left brain, right brain. And coming out of FIT, like what feels like now a million years ago, I went into product development and design at Macy's. They're one of the like farm schools for their executive development program. So I went through the program and obviously knew that I wanted to go deeper into accessories. Being a bench jeweler makes you a bit of a materials geek. I care a lot about quality, so I kind of increased the quality of the products that I was working with with every job. So after that, I went to David Yurman, who introduced me to wholesale. They are the— Masters. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Fabulous. I— and I bet you have a story for every single one of those bracelets.

Yeah, they were my own bump gifts. Yeah, I can share that after, but they were my own gifts to myself.

I love that so much. That's so important. These kind of connections and milestones. There are rarely other products in the world. I'm sure you have an innate list of them, but that creates such an emotional tie. And an emotional connection than Julian watches. I loved working for David Yurman.

Were you in design?

I was in corporate. So funnily enough, I applied for a job in their designing components for them, and they met me and they were like, you're great, but actually we want you to interview with the wholesale team instead because this job has you in the vault with no windows and working with components all day. And We think your talents are better used talking to people. So they are the ones that put me on the wholesale path. And as soon as I started, I, I never stopped.

Were you working with buyers and like you were, you were like a rep for the company? Like how, how did that all work?

At the time, David Yurman had kind of two buckets, so to speak, of reps. There were field reps and there were corporate home-based sales support. And so that's what I did for them. I was in corporate home-based sales support. I was over the Southeast, partnered with different field reps. And so I used to joke like it was like a bank heist movie. I was like the person on the other end of the phone that was like, okay, go into the bank now, make a left here, you know, being able to have that like 30,000-foot view of sure, this activation is happening here and we can support with this product, but simultaneously we have an account in this area over here that, you know, needed support specifically for a bunch of Albion Rings or whatever it was at the time. So I was over throughout my time there, the Southeast, the Caribbean. I was on the Neiman Marcus account as well. At the time, they were the number one brand across all categories in Neiman Marcus. If you can Imagine that. And I was having so much fun, and I loved being there so much that I started chatting with a friend of mine. It was one of her neighbors, and we were just like at her pool one day, and we start chatting, and she's like, you need to come work for me one day. And I was like, aha, that's so funny. And she was also in the World, and she ended up becoming shortly thereafter the US president for Vernier out of Milan, Italy. And that is next level. I thought David Yurman was the most expensive, nicest jewelry I'd ever seen. And then I was exposed to the next level of that. It's these gold pieces. They're non-branded out of Italy. They're phenomenal craftsmanship. And I have all the love and respect for David Yurman and Wholesale, and then moving into Vernier, it was about building wholesale relationships. So I helped develop the Vernier footprint in the US over 5 years until 2020. So that's where I was, and I absolutely lived and breathed it, loved it, was obsessed with the idea that I could speak with small business owners, national account buyers, VPs, and really work with them on specifically their market and their customer behavior and what they needed. And one day I would be, you know, speaking with them about inventory management. The next day we'd be talking about events. I mean, it's— wholesale is beautiful because it touches every spoke of the wheel. You're the liaison. For the brand, for these retailers. And you really get to see how small businesses run. So I was helping them training their teams, coming up with different training programs to support their teams with what they needed in that moment. And then 2020 happened, and I was poached to go work for Patek Philippe. I knew nothing about watches. And I remember the recruiter that reached out to me said, you know, would you be interested in working for a brand like Patek Philippe? And I wrote back, if you're not joking, then absolutely. So I— what they liked about my background was it was specifically in wholesale in the US. I was already very familiar with most of their existing points of sale and I knew nothing about watches, which they thought was such a strength because there were no bad habits to unlearn. Education is one of the pillars at Patek Philippe. I don't think that's proprietary to say. So I underwent an enormous amount of training while I worked there to also ultimately become a trainer for them as well. So I had my sales job and also we integrated that with training. And to see the level of education that they poured into their wholesalers, it's their only form of distribution there, you know, outside of the boutique in Geneva. And the support that as a brand you can really bring to your retail store, to your retailers, your wholesalers, is part of what makes them so successful. They are supporting their teams with education. That frankly helps them across all competing brands as well. I mean, a better educated customer was the best customer for them because it almost allowed you to take what could be a prohibitive price conversation and almost put that aside so that you can get to what are the materials, what's the occasion, you know, what are you really talking about here? What brought you through the door? As opposed to here's a watch that's, you know, $40,000 or $70,000, whatever it was. Granted, it's, it's rarefied air to be able to keeping that top of mind for sure. And so from there, I had a friend of mine who recently became the president of a Richemont brand, Piaget. And we started talking and he really liked my background in jewelry and watches, which is so rare. It's something that outside of Cartier, also a Richemont brand, Piaget does. And that mix of having the two was really, really hard to find. So they brought me in as the wholesale manager for North America. Being able to kind of merge those two worlds together.

It's incredible.

I was on average about 10-ish years younger than the other reps that I worked with, so I was able to be exposed to some really smart people throughout my career that I was able to learn from. It was so cool.

It's funny because My first job was in Florida working for Cosa Bella, which we used to joke was like Cosa Bella for Neiman Marcus because they were our main company. So it's like what Neiman Marcus does is what we did. They had so much power. Yeah, like the buyer would come, we'd present our designs, and then what the buyer said determined the rest of the collection for everything that we created. The ironic part is like the Neiman's next to me in the mall just shut down. So it's like very, you know, there's all sorts of stuff happening. But with David Yurman, so my very first bonus working as a fashion designer for a lingerie company, I took that money and I went and bought myself a ring, like one of their big, you know, rings.

Albion rings.

Yeah. And then, um, so that was that. And then when I had my baby, same thing. I like bought myself my bump present. So I wear both of them that represent my kids. So it is. And then I have our 5-year anniversary ring. So, so just say that, like what you brought up about what you learned at David Yurman, and then the storylines, and then how you talked about your brand in the very beginning is, and this is, you know, something that I teach is like, you really understand what a strong brand and a strong point of view and a storyline through it, because otherwise we're just selling a commodity.

Yeah.

It just sounds like starting as a designer, I had the same thing too. Like I went to work at BCBG and they're like, we're not gonna hire you. I wanted to be a dress designer. But I was a designer and separates at Costa Bella. So they're like, we'll hire you in swimwear, but not in dresses. Like, I want to do dresses. So, you know, like climbing through. But then again, it's so funny because now I'm a designer. I went to Otis, which is FIT, Otis, and Parsons are like the top 3 schools.

Yeah.

And I'm like, and I wake up one day and I'm like, oh, am I, am I still a designer? Like, is this, is this still what I do? But my creativity comes through in different ways, which is what you've been doing from the knowledge of understanding design. What customers want, trends, and then, and then the storyline through it. Because I think the thing that people miss is they make products to just make a product, but they're missing the connection between the end consumer. So how did you take all of that and apply it to, you know, Gale Studios?

I think something that I tried to impress upon the teams that I was training whether it was David Yurman, Patek Philippe, Piaget, really storied brands. Something that we need to keep in mind is when you're selling accessories, because that is the category that we all fall under, is it is not food, shelter, water, clothing, right? It is not a necessity. So when you're speaking to people that are lucky enough to work really hard and have expendable income and focus on accessories, you, given your price point, need to also look at the other stressors of their life. So determining price points, aesthetics, accessibility for pieces that I was designing in Macy's is a completely different conversation and point of view when you're talking about which colorways of you know, Golden Stones we can send to Florida, California, Houston, Atlanta, like the tropical doors versus Northeast, Boston and New York and Chicago. So I think that the real focus 100% of the time needs to be the customer. And to like, what are we doing here? Who are we helping if we're not speaking to people directly and meeting them where they are. So I think that has been something that's really important. Yes, I'm selling canvas bags that are really high quality and beautiful and can be embroidered. Also, there is an aspect to it where we can help someone through a transition period by giving back a little bit more confidence. It's one less thing they have to worry about. Because I don't know about you, but if I show up somewhere and I am not comfortable, or I'm in the wrong outfit, or I've got the wrong bag, or I'm ending up holding all these things, it's like it just chips away at how you arrive and how intentional you are. And so being able to just grab your Gale Studio bag, if you have embroidery on it, you've got a story that you can talk about. Or if you're not in that kind of mood and you put it on the strap, you can just click it off and not engage with people. Um, but we give you that, that confidence back where you can have more of your brain back to focus on what you want to focus on. I want to make it as easy as possible for the customer if I can. Yeah.

So a couple of things that you talked, you touched on, I'm going to kind of wind us back because I think this is a really good coaching moment for people listening. You mentioned that when you were working at the bigger brands, knowing what you sold to the Southeast versus, you know, East, uh, Northeast, whatever. So Acosta Bella was kind of the same idea. We were an Italian lingerie brand out of Miami, Florida. And so Miami in itself had a very like bright color, Latin America, like we, we did that. We knew what our New York buyers would buy and we knew Los Angeles was younger. So if like we had tiny— when I say younger, like more playful. So we could sell like little tiny prints to LA. New York was solid colors, more sophisticated. Florida was like the mango and the bright, kind of like you were saying. So I think one of the important things for people to hear when they're thinking about selling wholesale, if they're just starting out, you've got your collection. The bigger you start to expand, you'll understand what the buyers and the different regions are looking for, and then the collection gets to expand based on that. Like, this is a definitely a next level. I'd say if someone's going all the way in on wholesale, it probably happens closer to probably between half a million, million dollars can start to be the place, and then beyond there we start to expand past that. But then you just know, like, here's my product lineup, but I know where my buyers are. So For you with Gale Studios, like where do you think your buyers are? Like where do you think you're like, 'cause I, one is New York, New York City that like, yeah, when I lived there it was literally like, how do you go out in the morning and then end up at a party that night? And like my husband, when he was a Broadway actor, he is a Broadway actor, but when we would do events, yeah, I remember his agent showed up with a backpack and I was like at the, at the opening and I was like, because he's, he's gone so far from wherever he lives to here. He's in the city, he's in a suit. And I used to want to like open up like, um, a locker for people to like keep their stuff in for their transition. That was like my business idea.

Totally.

But it sounds like your stuff is, is for that transitional person. So where is your ideal customer avatar?

My ideal customer avatar is very likely in the Northeast. I think especially when we're talking about embroidery, the embroidery aesthetic that is most popular in the United States is very cutesy, collegiate, and it is a gorgeous technique that I haven't found resonates as much where I live. So I wanted to bring something that was a little more curated, a little— to your point— a little more sophisticated, solid colors. A little more muted tones to New York, New Jersey area. And I found that the shops that I'm speaking to now in Jersey City, Hoboken, New York, Manhattan are definitely more considered smaller points of sale. And what's really interesting when you talk about the agent your husband's agent having a backpack and like putting it on the floor. That is—

it was the craziest thing. It was like shaking hands and then placing the bag down. And I was so aware of it because I was like, where do we put his bag?

Yeah, right. You're like, I tried really hard to be here.

No, I just like— I saw— because I was from LA, and so in LA we have— oh, totally, we have trunks. So when I lived in the city, it was like once you left, you left. And then when we lived out of the city, we lived in New Jersey. It was like once we were in the city, there was no going back. So you really had to think through your whole day.

Yep. And, and we have what I call second bag. Um, we've got second bags and third bags, and you can have your designer bag, but that's not what you're putting all of your stuff into. And Yale Studio can really live in that space. I was dropping my daughter off at daycare this morning. We live in downtown Jersey City and walking to the subway because that's where her daycare is, is around there. And I tapped a guy on the shoulder who had a really big tote bag and it was like, he was kind of walking like this and he had a backpack. He had a beautiful backpack. He had the beautiful Apple headphones that are a gajillion dollars. And I went over to him and I tapped him on the shoulder and I was like, I don't mean to bother you. My name is Rebecca. I started a bag company and I think I can do better than what you have on your shoulder right now. And he was like, oh my God, I'm so glad that you— he's like, am I actually in the market for one? I got this at like a company retreat. And I even looked up the brand that this came from. And he's like, what do you guys have? And I was like, I just think proportionally you should be carrying a duffel right now. I was like, it looks like what you're carrying is really very heavy and it's not holding it very well. I was like, take a look at like this and the way that you're walking and how you're holding yourself. So I took out my business card, I tapped his phone because I have an NFC card, save the trees. So I tapped his card. He was looking through it and I was like, if you're around, we're going to be at Madewell in Flatiron this weekend. And he was like, yeah, I'm going to check it out. What's your name? And, you know, I got into people's minds like that. So I know I'm surrounded. By my ideal customer.

Um, just start hawking them on the train. I used to live in LA, so right above—

oh yeah, yeah, totally, absolutely the best. Because water's exploding.

We lived in the Avalons, which I think were built on top of a cemetery, and so they like kept burning down. So we're like, we gotta get the heck out of here. We moved to the Oranges. But anyways, what was cool, I loved it. I was like, I know like living in New Jersey has its thing, but I have the best view of Manhattan.

It's psycho with the river.

And, and then we would take the ferry into Midtown. It was like, it was, it was awesome. It was awesome.

I love, I love it. I mean, looking out my window right now, you can see the Statue of Liberty. Like, you're not getting that. No, because everything's blocking.

In Manhattan, you're looking at Jersey, but in Jersey, we're like, yep.

I say that all the time.

I know. But also when I moved in, like, it's the woods. It's beautiful. It's like a beautiful, beautiful state. So What I love about what you did there, and that would be fun, I'm just like, get— like, you know, you get someone with a camera, you have your little mini mic, and you go up to them and you literally like try and trade them out for bags. Like, that would be like such a fun viral moment for you, you know, it's like on the street, and then it's just like, hey, can I convince you that this bag is better? And like you have them like pack your bag with their stuff in their bag, you know. Like, how could you play because you're so outgoing and so forward, like, how could you create more opportunities like that where it's just experiential? Because the other side to a lot of this is, yes, story, yes, meeting your ideal customer avatar, knowing what they need, knowing the pitch. But then how does an experience get to explode from there?

It's so funny that you brought that up, Jacqueline Snyder, because I've been screaming from the rooftops about the importance of experiential retail. For what feels like years now. That's absolutely where everything is headed because you're creating that emotional experience. You're creating something that people feel really good about. And so back to what I say about accessories, if you're selling something that people at their core basic stripped-down humanity, if they don't need it because it's an accessory, what else are you bringing to the table? And you want people to feel good when they have your stuff. So experiential retail is fully the way to go. Listen, that, that's something that, yeah, I want to build this brand around.

Yeah. I mean, I don't need— I have Cartier, David Yurman, YearlyCo. I have like all the brands on my wrist currently and I didn't need any of it, but I needed it, right? So.

But it feels good. Yeah.

I was like, of course I need that. Now, my jewelry, my mom always used to say, like, you don't need to wait for a man to buy jewelry. Go buy jewelry yourself. So I've taken that. Upon myself. I remember one time my husband was trying to figure out what to get me and he's like, well, I bought Jacqueline a ring already. And my mom goes, how many fingers does she have?

Oh yeah, I would totally say that.

I was like, thank you, Mom. But, but the idea there is like when you create desire, when it makes like it makes a connection for the customer, right? Because a canvas bag is a canvas bag is a canvas bag. I see this all the time with Chanel, for example, or Louis Vuitton. It's like They're bags. So why does someone buy the brand? Why will they pay, you know, $200 versus $10,000 for a bag? They're buying into the brand and what the brand means to them. And it doesn't matter whether it's luxury or not. Like, why do people go to Lululemon or Alo? Like, what brings them into there? Athleta. Like, you know, people who shop at Target versus Walmart. We can go in any, like, Nike versus Adidas. So The brand is such a big part of it, and it's also the identity people carry with it. So when people are thinking about their business, you really gotta think like, a lot of times people are like, it's, they're solving the problem, or they're not even thinking about it. But you really need to think need, want, desire, or solve a problem.

Mm-hmm.

And if you can create desire so great, that's how people who quote unquote can't pay their bills but have a $1,000 iPhone in the new orange color. Because, right, want— they, they could have kept the same phone, but— and people are gonna be like, but the— get it, the battery dies, the whole thing. But I'm just saying that like the upgrade, the newness— like Apple is such a good example, like we don't really need the next version for a while, but people buy it because of the, like, the status, the desire, the—

yeah, the newness. I mean, people will size you up, especially in New York, in seconds. Oh yeah.

New York was always— LA is the car. Your car tells you something about the person. New York is shoes and handbags.

Completely. I— and when I was pregnant and commuting and I had to wear sneakers, I— it was like, I'll just— I'm going to lay down on Fifth. Like, this is terrible.

But that is like— that's why I feel like Tory Burch, when she came out and she was very like East Coast. Yeah, her flats, like the Tory Burch flats. And then like all the women were walking around in those because when you're walking, you know, 20 blocks and from the train and whatever, like you need flats but then status. So I know you and I are talking about the coastal cities, but yeah, but the whole concept of like Utah moms, that, that was like a whole thing for a while when Stanleys blew up, and that was like they were wearing aloe, they had a vest on, they had the Stanley mug. It was identity. And so people see them, their identity is in the stuff that they buy.

Yeah, that's very, very true. And with this identity, this massive cultural identity shift that we're living through, Yale Studio can be a part of that. You can take it along with you and it can grow with you. Yeah, which is so cool. Yeah.

And it's— I remember when I saw your stuff when you were in a challenge, and I think I did some coaching, and then we pulled it up and it was like, oh, this stuff looks Legit. It looks cool. And when people check out your website, you know, go check it out. It's like lots of photos, lifestyle photos. Mm-hmm. Looks like you're doing a bit of AI, which is fine because massive brands are using it too. Yeah. Um, user-generated images. So it's presented well. So let me ask you, um, you said you're selling mainly direct-to-consumer right now?

Yes.

How are you driving traffic to your website?

I could be so much better about that. I am in such a growth stage of the business that whatever is pulling my attention, that's what's gonna work for the week. I'm working really hard to be automated and optimized, but you need traffic to do that. Um, so like that poor man that I accosted on the way to the subway this morning, who was a really great sport. Like him, I know, I feel like I could tell you where all of my web traffic comes from. It'll come from me, it'll come from an interaction, it'll come from, you know, if I'm speaking at a party and I have, you know, 4 hits on my website, I can name those 4 people. So you're, I think it's like week 3 or week 4 in the Sales Accelerator I went back and watched those videos about optimizing your product page maybe 20 times, literally, and like taking notes and having it up on my laptop while my Shopify is like up on my iPad or vice versa. Like I'm really needing to convert the traffic that I get, but I'm struggling with driving traffic in the first place. Okay. Unless I'm actively working on it. So this Madewell event, is such an incredible opportunity that it is pulling a lot of my focus. So while I'm anticipating a lot of sales and I'm getting a lot of things ready with that ultimate goal in mind, I'm using it to drive traffic. But it's not easy because I'm not also not the greatest on social media consistency. I'll say I'll blink and 7 days will have gone by and I'm like, whoa. Where did that go?

Because you're so great at wholesale. Why is that not the place that you're focusing on?

Truly, because I am in a supplier shift right now. That's fully the reason I am taking each silhouette and tweaking it, redesigning it with different suppliers. And as those come in, That's how I want to start wholesale. Truly, that's it. I mean, I've already had a number of conversations with local boutiques. I have a couple of warm leads, and I think as soon as my pieces are ready to ship, we'll be able to have something. Okay. A little more concrete. Yeah, but I've started the conversations, but pumped the brakes a little bit for, for that reason. But that product development is happening actively.

Are you overseas or domestic with your production?

Overseas. But they were trying to do a lot of onshore tweaking. Not only was it— was it not working, but I mean, you know better than anyone, the knowledge and the capacity overseas is so much greater and so much more affordable, unfortunately, than than onshore. I would love to be made in America, but the finishing capabilities at my quantity sadly are not here.

Bags are very hard to make domestically. Like, it— I like, even in downtown, at my price point. Yeah, but also, yes, like, still very hard to make domestic. The— I think the thing that people have to understand is, like, over the years, manufacturing left, and 5% of the world's garments were made in downtown LA, which is where I grew up. Like, that's my space. Yeah, yeah, all of our production. And then I'm all for like raising minimum wage, but even if you raise minimum wage, it doesn't make the quantity of production— you can't speed up a sewer. So slowly but surely here in LA, manufacturing is leaving, and machines left, right? Like, there were certain machines we could do here, there's certain machines we don't have for different capabilities. So there's— I never— like, I remember like we had Tiffany, she owns this company called Chunks, which is a massive hair clip accessory company. Company. And I remember when I started working with her a long time ago, we had a podcast episode, but she— her whole company— and I'm— this isn't necessarily for your branding, but for her specifically, it was like ethically made in China because it was this time where like, you know, it was like, oh, it's Chinese, it's like, it's cheap, but actually it's not. And she was really— it was like, but all of the materials to make these really cool hair clips she sells to Sephora and like Urban Outfitters and any massive boutique I go into, I'm always like, oh my God, Chunks is here. So that's cool. Part of that was just like saying what it was, not saying that that's what you need to do for your stuff, but, but I think everyone gets to understand, especially since a lot of our listeners are still making, like they're still hand making. One, there's legalities. Blessed New Jersey, New York, and California have manufacturing laws. So like we actually cannot sew, cut and sew at home. Um, there's also, if people are in food, there's like cottage laws. So, you know, when you work with me as like a strategist and consultant, I do definitely talk about this. Like, I think that's what's missing from the maker's world. It's still kind of like small thinking, hobby, maybe you're making some money versus let's build a business and let's professionalize the business. I love that you're doing it. I love that you're stepping into it because, and you know this from being in Sales Accelerator, The hardest thing is driving traffic to your website. And truthfully, yes, social media, if anyone's still thinking like, I'm gonna post on Instagram and all of a sudden like my business is gonna blow up, it's like, unless you are such a fricking genius at it, you understand virality, like you maybe you already are a creator and you have a following, it's not the way. So what we really do in Sales Accelerator, it's all without ads and it's about, um, other people's audiences. And then in the collective, which is, you know, really where we're moving to at The Product Boss, is like this environment that's supportive to people wherever they're at, right? So it's like, if you wanna do ads, like, let's talk about ads because you have the capacity. Like with you, I would say ads, but you— but once we turn the ads on, we can scale your business to a million bucks. It's just that if you don't have the quantity, then we've got a breaking point, right? And exactly, your pages convert. So yeah, so I think that like, I think what you're doing and stepping into it sounds like accurate, but you have the knowledge of understanding. And this is what I want listeners to hear: it's relationship, it's connection, it's going into the— it's talking to the guy on the subway or going into Madewell and being like, hey, I've got a brand, can we do a popup? Because there's like West Elm does it too. And being scrappy and being tenacious and audacious and like doing the things that feel uncomfortable. But that's the thing that's going to flip it forward.

Yeah, I completely agree. I want to say that I'm very lucky. I did an enormous amount of research to get to this point, but I'm, I'm really lucky in that my product doesn't require an enormous amount of education or really price hesitancy. People see it, they understand it, they like it, they get it. There's not really a lot of like explaining that necessarily needs to happen. So to your point, I mean, what is converting is meeting me and hearing more about the story. So it's funny, I have found that I'm being a touch impatient. My husband's constantly reminding me, like, you've had this in this house and it seems like it's just been 6 months. He's like, TikTok, TikTok. Seriously. I know it's so true. Actually, the reason that I had my business card this morning is because I will not leave my apartment without it because I'm talking about it and I want to connect with people about it. You never know. And I didn't have my hair done, no makeup or anything this morning. I was just like, it was a gorgeous day and I saw this guy and I knew that I could help him out. That's not typical. I'm not doing that every morning. A lot of times I like have my coffee and I'm You know, walking glasses, you're like, nobody talk to me. Seriously. Or my daughter's like screaming in front of me and I'm like, okay, we're not selling bags right now in this moment. Something that I've found is that I'm so used to working for real heritage brands that you say their name and there's a recognition, people understand and I am building brand awareness with Gale Studio. People don't know us yet, so putting our name out there and driving traffic to the website, I'm trying to do what I can for every interaction. People get it right away, and I talk so much that that means a lot of self-editing. I'm trying not to bowl people over with all this information. It's funny when they say like entrepreneurship can be lonely, I'm thinking about this like 2-week spiral I went down with tags and like, where should tags go on the bag and how should I brand this and does this make sense? And I'm sitting there in Canva designing my own tags and I'm like putting together this like Instagram poll to see what people think about the tags. And my husband's like, I love you and nobody's going to participate in the poll. He's like, nobody cares about these tags. And we've got very opinionated, decisive, aesthetically-minded design people around us for sure. But bothering those people with their limited time to ask them about a tag, he's like, you can't have brand fatigue before the brand exists. So figuring out also what matters to my customer has been a huge part of this because I could talk for 8 hours if you want about tags. Who's got that time? So a lot of self-editing. Needs to happen.

This is why I like tell my husband I need to go out shopping, or when we travel, like, it's got to be because all I do— you should see my phone. There are more pictures of packaging, hang tags, products, um, like in my phone than my children. So it's like, and, and I, you know, I tell my clients that too. I'm like, if you're not leaving your house, you're not doing your job. It's research and development. Like, if you guys don't know who your competition is, who is the bigger player. And there's no limit to how many bad companies we get to have. It's just a perspective, right? A small percentage of an industry is gigantic to us. So, so it's like, if you're not leaving your house doing market research, if you can't tell me like, oh yeah, you know these brands and ours is a subset of that, it's like you just haven't done the work. So literally everybody listen to me right now, talk to your tax advisors, But shopping gets to be, it's a write-off. You know this, when we were working for other, when you're, when you work for big brands, we got budgets, we got to go on shopping trips and buy. Obviously it wasn't for us to take home, but like working for big—

Com shopping.

Yeah. We had like, you would buy a jacket for the button. And so, and in fashion school too, like we were, we had to leave to go explore and find trends and see what was working. So owning your own companies, there's write-offs for research and development and, and looking and like telling your— I gotta go, like, I gotta travel, I gotta go into the shops, I want to go look at Main Street America and the malls. And, you know, the malls are busy again. That's like one thing that I know, it makes me so happy. I know. And so, and the other side of this is like, what I don't want you guys— like, if you guys go to Target, let's just go with Target, Target's already knocked off the companies that you and I probably already know is trending. So like if I see a legging set there, I'm like, oh, I know exactly the brand they pulled that from. If I see, um, lingerie and like, I know the brand they pulled that from. If bows are everywhere, it's because a bigger brand did it and then it trickles down to the masses. But nobody here is in competition with Target.

Exactly.

You know, like Target's not our competitor. And in fact, one of my, like Virginia Sin, which is a client outta New York, I met, um, What's this? It's up in Upstate New York. It's this really cool outdoor market. But I remember Target knocked off a few of her pieces and then everybody came for them. They were like, what the heck? It's a small business. So I just, I guess I just want everyone to hear, like, I love this conversation because we are— it's elevating. Like, you and I have a very similar background and it's elevating what the space looks like in this world and then how to apply it to a small business, like how to apply it to your entrepreneurial business?

I always used to say in the companies that I worked with, wholesale is a different department than retail, direct-to-consumer, brick-and-mortar. And sometimes you would get pushback from always like a million-dollar seller who's running around and saying, you know, I lost this sale to the, to the nearest wholesale account. And I'm like, no, no, no. We are further legitimizing each other. The presence of this brand in the wholesale account lifts our cachet, so to speak, and we're, we're literally supporting each other by being so close. This is a good thing. And then that's when you get into exclusivities and things like that.

So of course, you know, that's for another day. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, that's exactly how like Kim Kardashian found my stuff. I was in a top boutique in L.A. And when she used to shop, she found it. When Carrie Underwood's stylist found us in a store, brought it to Carrie, put it on her Country Music Awards. Caitlin, who's a good friend of mine who actually designs for Disney, um, she does like the, uh, the brand that does all the fashion for— it's so interesting. It's a company that does Disney, but for the Targets around the parks. You guys, like, there's so many levels of like how people create stuff. So, oh my gosh, I remember we, we told the stylist, we're like, Caitlin was crying when we saw Carrie on, um, the Country Music Awards. And so the, the stylist was so sweet, she put Carrie in my headband and cuff on her Good Girl music video because she knew like how much it meant to us. So relationships are important, and that's literally the— my— if I could teach one thing, it would be wholesale, because exactly what you said, it elevates the brand, it gives purpose, it gets exposure, they work on the marketing for people to come. And so anyone who's selling in person, it's a similar experience. And then it's all relationship. It's like how— because buyers like you, like buyers go to different— well, you were on the side, but buyers go to different stores. Like it's relationship.

It's—

yeah, how to get more, you know?

Yeah, it's so true. And to your point, when you were asked earlier in our conversation about different places where I want Gale Studio to be. My metric for that is in-store experience. How are you treating your customers? I was, uh, my sister lives in Bergen County in New Jersey, and we went shopping at a local boutique. Never have I ever heard of this place. It is so hyper-local, and it is a wholesale boutique. It's a higher-end boutique. And we went for jeans. And so my sister and I are there for jeans, but we had incredible salespeople who, when I tell you, like stacked jeans outside of the, the fitting rooms, shorts, threw in a couple of tops because that's what would work. They're making the full outfit. And that is a skill that you can teach, but if you don't already know it, it's tough to build up. And so I left there, introduced myself, did the tap with my NFC card, and then went home, wrote them an email about my positive experience. Of course, that I shopped and that I would love to come back with a full Gale Studio collection and talk about having my bags in their windows, because that experience at every level is what you're looking for. So when you've got wholesalers that have been doing this for a long time, that's where you want to be. They're going to legitimize your brand. Yeah.

I mean, we even used to gift all the, the people on the floor because then, like, we had Lisa Klein in LA, like there was Robertson Boulevard. They were just like massive stores that were definitive. And we would gift all the salespeople something with a note. If we were local, we'd come in and train them. Because when they love the brand, they're going to push the brand. And so there's all of these ways that we get to really do this. And, you know, this is one thing I'd love to, like, you know, in the collective— in the collective, we've really been working on wholesale. But people think I don't like fair. It's not that I don't like fair, it's just that the way that— that I think fair is a great tool, and it's got access to people when you wouldn't have it. But what you and I know from a traditional wholesale perspective, if we can build relationship, if you have control over your inventory, um, if you can determine where the stores are, like the buying time, there's just so much growth that can happen. And then also in terms of supporting the retailers. So I think Faire is great as a tool, but then what I teach is like, like what happens if that, that goes away? I always want people to have like the real, like the like you've got the phone book in your hand. Like, you can— people like, what's a phone book? But you've got the numbers. Like, you have ownership over your everything. So like, we— whatever is happening in the world, like the dips, the— all the things that happen, we get to be in control of our companies and the outcome of it.

Yeah. I would also say trust yourself. You know, it doesn't matter if you're an extrovert or like me or an introvert. An extroverted introvert like my husband says he is, when you're talking to someone, whether it's business, personal, you pick up so much more than if you're just emailing back and forth. If you want to even be in business with these people, are they going to make your life easier or harder? Do they want to uplift you? Do they want to screw you over? I don't know if I can say that, but I think what we're able to capture with in-person conversations serves us so much better. And you trust yourself when you get in front of them. I just think that can carry you a lot further than keeping an entire relationship that's so important and integral to your business digitally. You gotta take it off the devices at some point.

Yeah, 100%. Go out to dinner with them. You're visiting town, like, go, like, be in relationship. And I think, yeah, you know, it's something that you were saying earlier too. It's what you, what you were saying earlier about You're, you know, is your husband in the same space as you? Like, he seems to know so much about branding.

I know this poor man. He's in media. He's just been with you for a while. We were together 15 years this year.

Yeah. My husband can coach on product now. He's like, I'm good.

Exactly. He used to say when I was training teams virtually, which happened a lot over the last 5 years, he used to pop in and be like, I can teach you about a minute repeater. Like, he knew everything about like watches and and mechanical movements and stuff.

Totally, totally. So anyway, so what you're saying, I mean, that was like for me too in entrepreneurship before I ever met my ex-co-founder, before I ever, you know, all I did was go to trade shows. I'd go to the seminars at the trade shows. I had an office in downtown LA, so I'd pass other designers in the hallway if we were close, be like, hey, I need a pattern maker for X. But otherwise it was pretty lonely. I also worked in the city in the fashion district when we lived in New York too. I mean, New York, you could never be alone because there's always people around you. But what happens is, and this is what I teach, one, it's like, what's your market research? What's the focus group you can go to? Not your friends and your family, but people who are aligned with your ideal customer avatar. But the other side that I think people miss is doing entrepreneurship by yourself, because our spouses can't be everything for us. They, they know, they try and problem solve, unless they're in the industry or their business partners. But even so, I work with so many business partners that are spouses because they only know what they know. And then it's like, what are other people doing? So I think one of the things that you said about like, what do I do with, you know, I wanted to know where the hang tags go.

Yeah.

It's like, how do you put yourself into community of other people who are already consumers but also understand product? So they're not like, yeah, I had all, all 17 of them. It's like, well, what's, how much is each tag? And like, cuz it all adds up to the price point, you know? So that's like the power of not doing entrepreneurship alone. I think it's the greatest lie, especially as women that we've been told. Yes, you can have an 18-month-old, a 6-month-old company, like be a wife, take care of yourself, and then still think like, okay, wait, but I got it.

Your podcast, not to like fangirl, but your most recent episode that came out about taking care of yourself and listening to your body. And that's something that I have been like limping on my foot for a week and I like called my podiatrist and made an appointment. Okay, good. Because of that episode. Perfect. It just like completely— it's— I like to think that I'm somebody that prioritizes self-care, but that doesn't necessarily always— facials are great, but it doesn't necessarily mean like, you know, putting your feet up. It means breathing. It means talking something out. Yes, with my husband, but also with a therapist.

It's like people have been calling me a business therapist lately and they're like, you're my business therapist. Like, great, let's go. But I think— and I love that you said that because I said it because I was literally hospitalized and launched the first iteration of Sales Accelerator, what it used to be called, like, like as soon as my gallbladder out was out, right? So actually I took my own advice this weekend and I had this weird like jaw thing happening and old school version of me would've been like, it's fine, I'll power through it. But instead I was like, no, like I'm gonna model this. I do this, this is what I, I train my students and my members in. It's like, I'm gonna do this. So it's like, It really was. I had a vet appointment with my new puppy at 8:40, called the urgent care, got in, and I was just like, yeah, good. I was like, even though it was like, it's probably a nerve thing that I just like hit a nerve and just got irritated, I was like, great, now at least I know I'm not, you know, dying or functioning with a gangrene bladder that I'm like gonna— you know what I'm saying? It's like, we just don't know. So how do you prioritize? So I'm so glad if like that episode only only help you, great. And then we get to model that, you know? And so that was my stretch this weekend.

Yeah, that was— I was really, really— I remember I was cleaning up in the kitchen at the end of the night. That's like when I listen to my podcast. When you got to the part about like collapsing in the lobby, not to like duplicate your podcast.

No, it's okay.

I don't have to. I was like, when you got to that part, no, please. I went like, my jaw like hit the floor when I was listening to it. I was like, oh my God. And I deeply understood that. It's not like I'm intentionally trying to even necessarily be strong. It's just there's only so many hours in a day. There's only so many things that we can fit on our plates. And in my internal prioritization, of course my daughter's going to come first. Of course the apartment's going to come first where my family lives and breathes. Of course. What they're eating and everything like comes first. Of course the business comes first. Like, it was a healthy reminder that if you don't do something, your body's going to remind you that something needs to be done.

I think—

was it you that said you've got two options? You can do something once or you can do it right.

I mean, it's the same.

Or you can do something twice. Or yeah, something like that.

Like, it's also like measure twice, cut once. Like, there's lots of versions of that, right?

Right, right.

I think that— and I think that's really important. And that's why I'll say, like, the transition of me fully stepping in from all of the stuff that I've learned in the last year, like how my body kept screaming at me to slow down, like to pay attention, the catastrophe of, like, losing both my parents in 2 years, like, and especially my mom, like, all of it was like, what am I actually doing here? And That's where really the iteration, because I had an episode called like, and it's going to be, it's like the, it really is like where I am now, which is your business will only grow as much as you do. And so realizing that we are, we are it, like it is us, it's how our business will grow as much as we do. So the capacity for possibility, the capacity for growth, like even the belief of it, and like if we're not taking care of ourselves, then What's going to happen? Nothing's like our kids, like everybody needs us. So it's a hard thing because there's martyrdom and we're some of the first generations where we're holding all of this at the same time and we get to learn through it. So I'm glad that my experience of, you know, smashing my face on the ground, I was like, great, you know, it's like, but I got to go through it so that I could share it. It's like how I interpret all of my life. Thanks, lately. I mean, hey, yeah, yeah. So I think that, you know, I think that's something for you as you're growing this company is like, like continuing to— you've got so much foundationally there. You also have a lot on your plate. Like, you've got a baby, and 2 is going to be 2, and 3 is going to be even more fun. And, and you got this baby business, and you've got yourself.

Yeah.

So really it's like you get to really ask yourself, like, what is my business asking from me? Like, who do I get to become? Who do I need to be to hold this company in the vision? So how I want to kind of like wrap this is, when I run into you a year from now, what are we celebrating? What have you created?

Immediately, the two things that come to mind are maybe because of our conversation, and it could be a recency bias, but I believe inventory and wholesale. So I think what I mean by that is received the samples, fine-tuned everything, was able to push forward with designs that were even better than how people resonated with the original designs. And because they were so well received, we were able to confidently launch in wholesale with a number of local retailers that uplift the community that I have regular events at. That's what I want to be. That's what I will be celebrating in a year.

Amazing. And then how will that then— like, what will your life look like? Like your family life? Like what? What is, what is growing the business? What does that give you back or, or add on to for you a year from now?

You know what's funny is the first thing that came to mind was getting my daughter into extended daycare. Great. Because so I get to work on the business when she's in daycare and when she's napping. So she's in daycare right now, Monday to Thursday, 8:30 AM, 3:30 PM. That's what it is. And whether it's teething or sickness or something like that. Um, a lot of holidays fall on Mondays also, so some days it's even shorter than that. And I feel like more disconnected to my business on days where I can't sit and work on it like a whole lot. So in a year, family-wise, I hope to be a little better organized and consistent with the schedule for her as well. So I'm not jumping right to that 6:30 pickup in my mind, but I really would love daycare on Fridays. That would be great. Also, oh my gosh, a date night. I realized that—

Oh yeah, that guy.

Yeah, right? I'm like, he's the whole reason she's here. You know, I have to like remember We asked our friends to watch her so we could go out for omakase, I think. And she was like, I think she was still under a year old. I think that was the only time we've been on a date in the last year and a half, like truly just the two of us.

Okay, so that gets to be what you do. We're due. I would say in May you get to plan a date. I mean, that's not very stretchy, but like that just gets to be a priority, which is like prioritizing.

Yeah. Yeah, but see, it is stretchy.

It's the— yeah, exactly. It's the basic stuff. And I will say too, because it really reminds me of when I moved to Jersey. I lived in Edgewater. My daughter was 18 months old and I was by myself and my husband was working in the city. So, and I was growing The Product Boss and still had my company in LA. And so I remember my coach at the time was like, pay for as much childcare as you can to grow your business. While they're small because they're little and they're gonna have the time with us. And like, they're also loved on and cared. And like, so I remember crying the night before I drove my daughter to— she was going earlier than my son had, and they were in full day. And I remember just like crying that I was like a crappy mom. And then all of a sudden, like, the, the— she came out to get my daughter, my daughter was like, peace. Like, then she ruled the school. Like, she was in charge. And so I was like, great. Yeah. So it was like she thrived in it. And then I got to go work. I got to take care of myself. It was such a beautiful time. And then, um, I'd pick them up for dinner. We do dinner, we do bath time. We had quality time, and I was supported so that I could build the business that now I've got, you know, an almost 11-year-old and 13-year-old, and we live back in LA and we go on vacations. And like, I am able to do all the things I wanted because of, because of what I built when they were small. And so that's just the permission you get to give yourself and, and say like, okay, is it a year from now or is it sooner? So that you can create these opportunities, right? Because you get to really collapse that timeline and move faster towards it. When women make money, we have more opportunity. We, we can get more help because then the next level is like, then get help at home. So instead of doing laundry, ah, then you're with your kid. Right. And then it's especially New York and New Jersey, we could send out. So it's like, oh yeah, maybe, maybe there's other things that it's like once you start to generate money, you get to buy back your time, as Dan Martell says. And then it's like you get to be with the people of why you're doing this. Yeah. So that's my little—

completely—

coaching. So we're going to celebrate all that in a year or less because you're going to go on date night and maybe—

or less—

and then maybe your daughter's, um, you know, taken care of so that you can speed up the inventory, the product development, production, so that you can speed up your wholesale. But tell everybody how they can buy from you, follow you, how we get to really support you.

Thank you, thank you. So the website, we are an e-commerce store. It is www.shopgalestudio.com. Gale is G-A-L-E, The Hunger Games, Katniss. Gale, G-A-L-E, that Gale, Gale Force. Gale Force Wins. And my Instagram account, which is the only social media that I can handle at the moment, is @shopgalestudio. And if you— I'm not sure when this podcast is going to be out.

It won't be before your pop-up, but, you know, they can go in and say, can she come back? Are you going to all the meetups? Be like, hey, I heard that this is happening on Fifth Avenue. Or yeah, is Gale Studio coming here? Go see it, everybody.

I love it. Yes, yes, harass your local Madewell so that we can come party. That would be super, super fun. We have live on-site embroidery. We have a beverage sponsor for this one. It's non-alcoholic premium French champagne and rosé. It's just going to be superb and so much fun, and I can't wait to meet you guys at an event very soon.

Amazing.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you for being so generous with sharing your experience and like even this like higher level. I love the ascension amongst the luxury brands. Um, if you guys don't know these brands, go look them up in the way of understanding luxury. When people come to me like, it's luxury, and I'm like, do you know what luxury is? And like, you even just expressed American luxury versus like European luxury, or like $70,000 watches, and obviously they go up from there. I actually just found out— was it Rolex? I could probably tell you, but there's one brand that like you can't get the entry-level watch anymore. And like, there's a certain way— I mean, it's with Hermès too. Like, you can't buy a Kelly bag without buying it all this other stuff. So exactly, if you're really in luxury, know luxury or know the departments you're in. But thank you for being so generous and all of that information of, you know, it's great to talk shop with somebody behind the scenes. And, um, I hope that was really supportive to everyone here. And thank you and good luck with all of it.

Ah, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for for your time, for your generosity and everything that you do. I'm such a fan and excited to tell you what I'm up to in a year and sooner and sooner and sooner.

Amazing. Thank you.

Thank you.

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