7 Secrets To Hitting 7 Figures With Recruitment Agency Expert James Blackwell

I was 27 when I started in recruitment. I started from like a 15,000 pound basic salary. Didn't even realize recruitment was pretty much sales. The last thing you should ever delegate is your clients. One thing I learned is you cannot overcome an objection via an email or LinkedIn message. You need to speak to that candidate or client prospect over the phone. To win good clients, you need to look at them from business owner to business owner.

I'm excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. I have my special guest with me, James Blackwell, and who's the director of the agency Blueprint and also the managing director of Ronald James Greubel. Welcome to the podcast, James.

Thanks for having me, Benjamin.

One of the things I always love to dive into as we get started is how did you end up in this wonderful world of recruiting? And then after you explain that kind of talk about where you're at now and what you're doing with both of your companies.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So probably like every person in recruitment, I fell into recruitment. I didn't even realize recruitment was pretty much sales, so. So I started off as a car salesman working at BMW for five, six years. It was actually my sister's boyfriend at the time, worked at a recruitment agency. I ended up working for and told me about it and I was like, how are you making so much commission? And he was earning like three times more than me. But I felt like I was working harder, was a better salesperson. But I was in the car trade. Like I sort of fell into recruitment, got the opportunity there to work at a company called Frank International or Nigel Frank back in the day. Just dove into recruitment, I think probably at an older age. I was 27 when I started in recruitment. I started from like a 15,000 pound basic salary with like a way you go type of thing. So it was, it was an interesting start and I enjoyed it. But back then we didn't have LinkedIn, so it was CRM job boards. And that was, it's amazing like what.

Recruiters nowadays have at their fingertips compared to like, you know, some of us that have been around the block for a while.

I think the problem is I have too many tools and too many destructions. Okay.

And how do you get started with your own firm?

Yeah, So I worked in a recruitment agency for like five years, progressed all the way to team leader, manager of a division. And I always wanted to start my own business again. I previously run a coffee shop and a car garage. When I was younger, it was one of those where it was all about Timing. And there's never a perfect time to start your own business. So I was always trying to wait for a big paycheck or I was waiting until I got every duck in a row lined. And it just never works out like that. So I start my agency in 2015. That was pretty much from a kitchen table. And it was like day one, I was like, wow. Like you don't realize how easy you have it working for someone else in terms of the website's done, you've got your CRM, you've got your tools, you just need to show up for work, put your computer on and away you go. And you can easily get distracted when you first start up a recruitment agency thinking you need all of this nicely polished website, you need everything set up, you need all of these systems. Yeah. So I started that back in 2015 because I knew I wanted financial freedom. You can make maybe six figures in recruitment working for someone else, but firstly you get taxed very highly. Basically, the lifestyle most recruiters live. Well, when I was there back in the day was typical Wolf of Wall street style recruitment lunch clubs on a Friday. And the whole idea was you spend your full month's pay packet within the first week and then away you go again. So I was stuck in that cycle. So I knew like there had to be about when, obviously when you work for yourself and start your own agency, you've got more control over making more money if you put in the right work and you follow the right process and you're successful with that.

I know a lot of people are. You know, one of the things that, why they jump into their own agency or as a solopreneur is the freedom that you have, the financial freedom. And I know you've talked about multiple podcasts and other things, how you've really just bought your job back. Right.

I call it Golden Handcuffs. So you tend to find that most recruiters set up their own agency and then all of a sudden they're having, instead of just having to do one job as being a recruiter, they're having to be a business owner as well and learn that trade. And what you'll tend to find is the maximum they'll hit is maybe 100, 200K. Yeah. Maybe if they're lucky, they might get 250K. Yeah. But they'll realize they can't take holidays, they can't take time off. If they're off sick for a week, nothing happens. There's no candidates coming in, there's no placements being made, no interviews, no candidate follow ups and they get stuck in that cycle of like I've seen many agency owners being it for 10 years and they're still just being a solopreneur which is working by themselves and they're still trying to dig their way out of it and eventually want to exit. There's nothing wrong with having like a solopreneur recruitment agency. But at some point you'll give up wanting to speak to candidates every day for example. So you don't have a business. Like you think you're a business owner but you're not really. You're just a highly paid employee for your own business.

I will recommend that sometimes it's better to be a highly paid employed in your own business than working for somebody else. But if you want to definitely grow and scale there's you got to do something a little different. And that's actually one of the reasons why I want to bring you on the podcast is I know that you've helped multiple agency owners like hit that magical seven figure mark. What does a somebody have to do? What's journey to hit that seven figures?

The first thing that we need to build is we start off with like the client side. So like without any paid clients you have no real recruitment business. So we want to make sure that you've got enough clients coming inbound. And the first thing like I always say for the agency owners to build is a client attraction system. That's a methodology of where you go out one to many and you've got leads coming in consistently if you client in your niche and a way to build out a Dream 100 campaign. So the second thing we would build is like a dream 100 campaign. So these are like the top 100 clients like over the next five, 10 years. You really want to work with that. You know you're going to get multiple repeat business from because to scale your agency at seven figures you need at least a handful of clients that are going to be coming back time and time again as opposed to just getting one off spot business all of the time because that's a very stop start and it's very hard to go to seven figures just doing one placement a year with each company. So once you've built that out then it's making sure you can win some clients exclusive retained. I don't mind getting exclusivity over retained. It doesn't really bother me. But the idea is you want to get a head start over your competition. So again creating a unique methodology. We we've got a signature sales pitch deck that we develop. And that's how you present to every potential lead to turn in a client, your unique usp, how you deliver differently, what extra services you can give that end user client of how you can maybe do 5, 10 hires a year with them and how you would sign them up exclusive or retained. So the first thing is building the client attraction system. Then you need a way to do sourcing without you doing the sourcing. So the next thing is as a recruitment business owner, you've been there, LinkedIn, you're shortlisting, reaching out a candidate, you're following up, you're emailing, you may be doing some looms. There's so many things you need to do, it's impossible to get to seven figures. So the next thing you need to fix is a way to source candidates without you doing it. So you can leverage some LinkedIn automation, some email automation, a clever ATS, and then what I call marketing sources. So inside our agency blueprint program, we show you how to hire a marketing sourcing team. So my agency, Ronald James, has a marketing sourcing team of seven sources and all their job every day is video outreach, voice note follow ups, loom videos, email follow ups, and creating some omnipresence in LinkedIn. So creating social media posts, job posts of the day, video job of the days, all of those things that will get traction for candidates. So then the recruiters are just doing what they do best, which is speaking highly qualified candidates, doing interview feedback calls and closing the deals. That's like the second piece is merging those two together. Then obviously the system automation, operations and really upgrading your mindset as well. Because what gets you from six figures will not get you to seven figures. So you need to reprogram your mind as well. Because a lot of people get fearful of hiring employees and growing. So we need to get past that fear factor and upgrade your mindset.

You hit a few points I definitely want to go back and revisit. First of all, you have a sourcing team, you have a recruiting team. And do you also have a sales team too?

No. So one thing that I have noticed, I mean we've helped over 600 agency owners now scale, I would say the seven figures, probably about 200. And I would say that the biggest thing, the last thing you should ever delegate, Benjamin, and maybe you would agree with me, is your clients. So you should always be the front of house of your business, your brand, you're that figurehead. So when you're winning pitch in business, that's you, that's your number one role is to maybe. I used to always do three meetings a week in Ronald James. So that's three client pitches. I would normally win two out of three or three out of three and then I'd feed the team and that's my job done because that's the hardest skill to do I would say. And for you to win good clients like you need to look at them from business owner to business owner. So stakeholder. Stakeholder C suite. So if you hire someone else in they're never going to be able to sell your business as passionate as you can. So I think it's very important that is the last thing that you delegate and really when you're delegating that you should have at least a client book of 50 to 100 clients that you've made successful placements with. And then you're handing off more account management as opposed to new business. And then once you've got the flywheel working then, then you can maybe have one of your recruiters to do some business development. But the majority of the building from year one to year three, year four should be you as the business owner. That's your yato primary role.

Oh, that's great. How many sourcer for that seven figure marker to break through that seven figure mark, how many like team members do you typically have on your team to.

Be successful to get to seven figures? So I mean it does vary depending on the size of the fees because you know, I mean we've got some clients in the program that are doing 25, 30, 40 thousand dollar fees but they're once every other month. But the majority, I would say average fees between US$7,000 and say US$10,000. I think when you take everything on average. So let's say we need to get to eight deals a month on average. So you could do that like really with two delivery consultants. So they're recruiters but they just do delivery which is candidate side. And then you would probably couple that with three to four. So the sources are covering off and helping these two delivery recruiters do four deals each. And that's probably the perfect model where you could get to a million which we've done plenty of times inside the program. Like four sources, two delivery. You might have one junior or you might have one of the sources that can turn into a delivery consultant that's ready to get promoted. And then you being the figurehead doing client attraction. Cool.

Awesome. And you also hit up on talking about mindset. Every single top producer, every single successful business owner that I've. I've interviewed for the podcast. Every single one of them talks about how important the mindset is and that mindset shift. When did you personally go through that shift and what advice would you give for others to go through A bit of a shift.

I remember I started all the mindset and personal development back just before I started my own agency. So I was listening to Grant Cardone a lot, Tai Lopez, Tony Robbins, Gary Vaynerchuk, all of those type of people. And I was just programming my mind and I probably didn't even know that, but subconsciously just reading all of the time. So I was trying to read a book a week, listen to podcasts, listen to YouTube. One thing I realized is like once you leave school, that's when really the learning starts. So I wasn't academically very clever at school, but I knew that for me to get to where I've got to now is mindset has been a big shift for me in terms of limited beliefs. Reprogramming our minds. I've just read a book again one of the top books I recommend is Psycho Cybernetic. Really good book about reprogramming your mind. There's also another one by Joseph Murphy on the subconscious mind as well which I'd recommend. But really we need to make sure that because we've been surrounded by the people we hang around with, most likely they're not going to be millionaires. The next thing was surrounding myself other successful people because you are who you surround yourself with. So trying to be surrounded by other people that have been there, done that or are wealthy helped as well and then environment as well. So like where you based and are you moving to different cities or trying to get out of your comfort zone? Because a lot of things around mindset is pushing yourself out of comfort zone. So we same how we adapt that with sports and being successful in sports, whether it's football or whatever, same in business. But it's your mindset. So pushing yourself through the fear factor because there's always self doubt that always creeps in and it's probably the strongest thing that we focus on in the program when we first bring people on board is is your mindset. Even though everyone wants a quick hack solution. A lot of these things are all mindset. First it's probably 80% mindset and 20% tactics.

You have good friends in the recruiting space. Seven figure builders. They actually exact same thing. They talk about it's. It's mindset maybe 5, 10% work and just going and doing it awesome. So it's 2023 has already been a bit of an interesting year in the, definitely in the recruitment market. What are you seeing out there?

So I see like there is definitely a drop off in live vacancies where in the tech space and obviously other people were helping agency blueprint or different niches. But it is more competitive. So you need to do more than just send an automated email campaign or a LinkedIn automation campaign to get a client. It's not going to work like that. I mean the good thing is in recessions what you tend to find is the bigger agencies are the ones that suffer because they've got big overheads, they've got big team, they've got management layers. So they're pushing for deals and pushing for placements because they need that to happen. Whereas I don't know what your listeners are like, but they say they are solopreneur recruiter or a small micro niche recruiter, maybe up to 10 employees. This is your time to shine and take market share because you're leaner, agile, less overheads. So yes, you might have less vacancies but even then you can pitch exclusive, retained or you can be a little bit clever around like how you're packaging things with those potential clients, offering them a deal if they bundle them in three, for example, that's a few things that we've done, but also going the extra mile of winning the client and what other service can you offer? So last recession we did, we started building out a marketing agency within Ronald James that would give people a branding pack so we would help those companies attract better talent by helping boost their brand, which was doing like a video case study of like their culture, interviewing some of their employees, posting that on LinkedIn, pushing out micro content, helping them by sponsoring like a webinar event around the tech space. So letting them be the key figurehood sponsor for the event which showcased more talent to them so they could get more talent inbound, creating career websites for them that is hyper targeted for their niche and speaks to their audience and language. Because most career sites for companies are not made for the job title they're hiring for. It's just very generic on every department. So we would go micro niche on that. So all those little extra nuance things you could add in with the fee would be a standout differentiator of you winning that client over competing against the other agencies.

I was going to ask you the next question was like what are some unfair advantages that you can create for yourself? And you just like yelled a Bunch. Is there any more that you can add?

I would help them with posting. So like helping. Because the biggest advantage most recruitment agencies have got in their market is their leverage on their network in LinkedIn. So you're probably connected to 70% of your candidate market on LinkedIn or you and your team have. So the client, the end user client isn't. They're probably connected to 5%, 10%. So you're giving them your platform to push out their branding and content. Yeah, I would use that as a service as well. So you can redistribute and reshare their content, help create their content, help push it out. You could also sell up maybe a mini structure on like okay, you want to hire direct instead of using us as an agency, that's totally fine. I haven't tried this, but I would maybe try and pitch a workshop to them where you maybe sell it for $2,000, $3,000 and you're giving them the full blueprint, the step by step on how you hire that tech talent or the talent for your niche. So what the message sequence is on LinkedIn, how they can build on a LinkedIn automation campaign, how they can nurture through ATS, how they can do looms with follow ups, how they could hire a sourcer. You go, I mean you could put a sourcer in their team that could be outsourced and you could just do that that way. There's probably different ways you could do that. Where they want to save on costs and they don't want to use an agency fee. They still need to know how to recruit and how to get the best talent because most of those companies will still need a recruitment agency. And what you tend to find is to get rid of internal recruitment teams, say they're going to do it themselves. The next few weeks is crazy for the hiring managers. The last thing they want to do is message people on LinkedIn, follow up on email, arrange interviews. They still need an agency at the end of the day. So I think still was. Even when the market goes down a little bit, there's still a massive demand. 70% of the market's still going to need an agency at some point. So it's just making sure you're there and you're adding a little bit extra value. And I would always offer by maybe doing even a free workshop, you could get a free workshop. I did this a few years ago now, but that was in person and we had like 40 to 50 potential of our target companies in on a workshop and I spent three hours Just showing them exactly how to hire talent without using a recruitment agency. So I gave them so much value. How to use hacks on job boards, LinkedIn, what messages to send, how to follow up. And then what happened was some of the best clients that we could never work with before were like, james, I love what you've done. I don't want to do it ourselves. I'd love to get you guys involved and could you help us with that? And that's what happens. So I would, I would maybe think about something creatively like that.

I actually love that idea and I haven't done it to that extent, but I've actually put together blueprints and finding candidates in the space and that has been like a great league magnet for companies like, hey, we love this, it's great. We don't want to do the work, but we see that you're an expert in the work. So that's. I love that idea.

Yeah.

I want to kind of jump into some questions that I ask, like every single guest. For a new recruiter that's just starting in this, in the recruitment space, what advice would you give them to be successful?

First thing is, I'll give away one of my secrets is go and buy the book by Steve Finkel, Search and Placement. I don't know if you've recommended that before, but that was my recruitment bible. It's what I recommend everyone that comes into my program to do. If you haven't done recruitment before or whatever. Most of the things that he teaches in there still stand the test of time today in terms of how to influence and persuade candidates, because that is the number one skill is can you influence and persuade? It's high level psychology. Selling is recruitment. So you must learn that art. It's not how you move around on LinkedIn and Boolean search and everything else. That's the easy stuff. The hard stuff is once you get a candidate potentially live and interested, can you convert them to maybe to yes? That is your number one role as a recruiter. And can you turn no's to maybes to maybes to yeses? And that's a skill that most people, I think most people, modern day recruiters don't have that skill as much as, I mean, I was blessed. I grew up in a time in recruitment where we didn't have LinkedIn, so we had to use the phone a lot more and we spent a lot more time on the phone speaking to candidates and speaking to clients. Whereas now I think a lot of people hide more behind the keyboard. LinkedIn messaging, emailing a lot of the time, not really building those relationships where they can overcome objections. One thing I learned is like, I would teach new recruiters, you cannot overcome an objection via an email or LinkedIn message. You need to speak to that candidate or client prospect over the phone. Never negotiate on email or LinkedIn ever.

Every time I see like a new recruiter do that, I just want to, I just cringe. And Steve, Steve Finkel, like he has written so many amazing books about the space. Like everybody, like you said, everybody should go back and pick some of his stuff up. I got two more questions. You know, for an experienced recruiter, somebody that's been in the game for a while, what advice would you give them to be successful or stay successful?

I'll probably be a little bit controversial because I own my own recruitment agency. But I would say if you're an experienced recruiter, you should be at least considering going out on your own, either being a solopreneur recruiter or actually building a small business empire. Because for you to get financially free, it's very, very hard to do that working for someone else. Yes, you don't have to. I think we said at the start of the goal, you don't have to go past being just working for yourself. And maybe you might have a high paid job, but it's for you. But that's not for everyone because not everyone's entrepreneurial. So not everyone takes risks like we have Benjamin and starting our own business. And we know how stressful it is and how hot it is. So every time I see if someone sets up to try and compete against me, I'm like, good luck. Because it took me eight years to get where I got to. So I think most people, they'll find it hard because they're not prepared to put in the work. And I would say it's not 40 hours a week, it's 80 hours a week because you at least 20 hours a week learning. I'm still to this day learning every single day, at least four or five hours a day. YouTube, podcasts, books every day. And I don't need to. I could retire, live happily ever after, but I'm always hungry to learn. And I think that's that what differentiates people that set up on their own to stay in, in a recruitment agency, but people. Yeah. So you're probably going to have a crossroads where for an experienced recruiter, you need to add value to that agency. So I'd be speaking to the business owner and saying, look, I don't want to leave and set up on my own. But what can we do in terms of a partnership profit share scheme? Can I be a director? Can I set up a new brand within that agency and be entrepreneurial? So make sure that if you are a good recruiter, you've got to get. You'll never get rich just being a biller. Every single year, you're going to have to progress within that company. So whether you have, like I said said a different niche, or you build out a department or whatever it is and you get a profit share, or you go in partnership with them and you set up a company together or whatever, that could be beneficial. But that's what I would say to an experienced biller, because at some point you will get burnt out. At some point you will not want to speak to a candidate again. Trust me, because I'm the same. That will not last forever. So there's hustle and determination will only get you so far, especially being in recruitment because you never want to be. No one wants to be a recruiter for the rest of their life because like I said at the start, the journey is most people fell into recruitment and you want to fall out of recruitment as well. So it's, it's a great position to be in because it's meritorious. You can make a lot of money in recruitment. However, you always want to think in the future, long term, do you want to be doing this forever or would you like to have a team that's doing the deals for you and making you the money and you're just orchestrating that? So whether you do that for yourself or you do that with inside the agency, that's what I'll be aiming for.

And I'm going to ask one more question on this. You got a great recruiter that's looking at starting their own company. What advice would you give them?

What I would say is you need a way of how you're going to map out your niche. So make sure you've got the strategy of how you're going to map out your niche market. How are you going to go to marketing, win clients? The first thing is like, don't worry about your website. No one cares about your website, no one will visit your website. Just get your LinkedIn profile good, get a target list of potential clients that you want to work with and then have a way that you can engage with those clients. So whether it's some email automation, LinkedIn automation, video outreach, go out and hustle and get there with clients on, get two or three jobs on Work the jobs, try and make placement. If not, get some more jobs on. Make your first placement, make your second, then you can, can start to build a proper business. Like once you've got some money coming in, then you can start to build the other system. So like a client acquisition system, where to get candidates a little bit more systemized and operations and then skill. I am biased, but how I progressed in life and I know we've just shared some mentors that we've got in common. Benjamin, invest in yourself. Whether it's my program or not, it doesn't matter, but you definitely need a mentor. Like if you don't get a mentor doing this, trust me, it is so lonely. There'll be so many mistakes that you will make, it will take you a lot longer. The chances of success are a lot slimmer. So if you've got someone by your side that can guide you, that's been there and done that and has been around, seen around the corners, you can't see yourself. The likelihood of success is a lot higher. What I would be against, and one thing that I don't really like, I don't know if you've had people on your show that do this, but the people that invest in recruitment agency startups and take a massive slice off their pie, I don't agree with because I've, I've saved so many people that came into my program that have been 50, 50 partners or having to give away 40% of the buildings every single month. And that company that invested in them give them no systems to generate clients or candidates, no way to build out a. They literally put a payroll system in place and if you. And a website, and then now they're paying them 40% for the rest of their life. And I just don't agree with it because you don't need to do that. And the only people that do that are the ones that, the reason why those companies win is because they give them a basic salary, they give them that guarantee, that security blanket. But you've only went to set up your new agency, so go and take that risk because when you do that, there's less risk for you, but there's, there's less reward as well. So I would say, like, make sure that you're not, you don't need investors, you do need a mentor, like I said. Or you could get mentors for free on YouTube or go and see who else is out there. But I would definitely say don't do it alone because at some point you're going to need Someone to guide you.

Great advice. Now we're going to go into the next round of questions. A little bit of quick fire questions. You know, going to ask you the question, love to get the answer. And also why. What is a book that's had a huge impact on your career and your life?

How to Get Rich by Felix Dennis. My favorite book of all time and I've read it so many times, I've got so many copies. Take notes. So Felix Dennis, he was worth almost a billion dollars, based in the uk, started a Maxim magazine and publication company and he literally just says warts and all what it's like to go out on your own. He calls it the lone wolf and like be really successful and there's sacrifices and not to take investors, not to take certain different money, not to hire too many employees. He says overheads walk on two legs is one of his quotes. And those employees always need to be generating money. Don't spend money on fancy offices. So many things. But that was the one book I'd recommend everyone to get is Felix Dennis how to Get Rich. Because he wrote that book and he didn't need to make any money and he's. He was giving everything away for free and it was just a really interesting journey of his life. Probably that one in terms of something more practical because that's an autobiography. Everyone always says think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. I've got one of the richer ones, the Law of Success there. That was a good book. But I would say if you're going to build a recruitment business, Build to Sell by John Warlow. Top three books. Very simple book as well, but it makes sense, it helps you think. How to build a business with systems. Which is why I started Agency Blueprint. Can you repeat this process and can you replace yourself so you actually own a business, not have a high paying job and that that's the principles in Build to sell.

Awesome. Is there a favorite placement that you've made or favorite like a company that you've helped find the perfect person for them?

I would say because I actually only made one placement in my company, Ronald James over the last eight years. Because I started the business from day one to say I don't want a business that is 100 reliant on me. So I hired my 17 year old brother when I started my agency. He had no qualifications and he came and he just learned from me. So I trained him, all the scripts, printed out the scripts, got him making candidate calls straight away. So I knew that I had someone that could just Source and potentially do deals and I would just listen to the calls and help them close. But there was a role that came in with, still to this day, one of our biggest clients. I think they've generated with us maybe 2.5 million, 3 million over the last seven years. Great client, exclusive. Got a really good relationship with them. They give us a role for a, a lawyer. And internally in their business, we specialize in tech. So it was like just such a random role. But I was like, I think at the time it was like an £18,000 free. And I was like, we'll take it. So I just literally, I think in mailed five people on LinkedIn and I'm just like, I'm like, yeah, she'll be good fit. He won. Bloody bar. It was so. It was five in mail requests, I think I had three conversations, two interviews, placement straight away and that was the first and last placement ever made in my own agency. But it was, it was, it was a sweet one.

Awesome. Is there like a favorite quote that you live by that's had an impact on your life?

If you think you can, then you can. And if you think you can't, you can't. Just simple mindset one like it's belief.

Awesome. Well, here's actually one of my favorite questions, like everything that you know now about the space, like the experiences that you've gone through. If you can go back and talk to yourself at the beginning of your recruitment career, what advice would you give yourself?

Your goal in recruitment is to make as much money as possible in the shortest period of time, but don't try and shortcut that. So I would say be effective. Don't waste time on LinkedIn, home feed, news feed is number one. And just be very, very all about time management. So to do it in blocks. So I'm going to do candidates this time. I'm going to do sourcing at this time. I'm going to do clients at this time. I'm going to do delivery at this time time. And just be very strict on your time and on those times, just be really honest because you could, you could be really successful and work 30 hours a week. But I think a lot of recruiters, if they really were honest and managed their time and looked back how effective they were for that week, I would say they're probably working at 30% on it. So I would say you could do more while working less if you're very, very strict with your time and time management.

Well, James, I just want to say thank you for sharing on the podcast. It was awesome to have you as a guest and, you know, sharing all your knowledge with everybody. Before I let you go, is there any anything else that you'd love to share with the listeners?

If you want to get in touch with me, you can reach out to me. Website litagencyblueprint.com is our recruitment platform where we can help agency on a skill or recruiters start their own business. If you want to reach out me on instagram just@amesblackwell. I normally share some things on there and my YouTube channel where I share lots of free content. Been doing that for like four or five years. So anything around recruitment just put in James Blackwell on YouTube and follow me on that.

Awesome. Well, thank you James, and for the listeners, until next time.

Thank you. Benjamin.