How To Build A $1m Recruitment Empire With A Remote Team! (Complete Breakdown)

Hello everyone and welcome to today's special interview case study interview. So it's always a privilege and to have genuine conversations with people that have made amazing transformations in both their personal and professional life. And today promises to be, I think, an exceptionally insightful one. So I have the pleasure of introducing someone who isn't just a successful client inside our program, but really a testament to what's achievable with commitment, showing up strategy and following the right blueprint and actually implementing the right steps to create some freedom in their life and a successful business. So meet Mo Adris, he's the founder and CEO of Responsum. Basically Mo's going to talk about his background but I think in the recruitment industry world, I think when he joined our program, I think he was six years or seven years in the recruitment industry. So been in the game a long time or half. Long time. And basically I remember when Mo came to us, he was scaling you struggling to scale with his operations and really caught in the grind of endless hours trading time for money and really struggling to get past that 20, 30k month barrier. But today Mo stands as a real embodiment of transformation, of running a thriving agency, having achieved record growth, over 100% growth year on year and really scaled up his agency to multiple six figures, whilst also most importantly, working less, which I'm sure Mo's are going to talk a little bit more about inside this interview. It's not just about numbers, it's about the journey. So the challenges, the highs, lows and today we're going to delve really deep into Mo's story, uncover the real life application of the agency blueprint strategies and the impact it's had on him and the lessons he's learned along the way. So without further ado, let's dive in. Mo, it's great to have you here to kick things off. So tell us a little bit more about yourself and your journey prior to joining the program.

Yeah, thanks for having me, James. I suppose I followed a similar journey to a lot of recruiters where you, you, you kind of do well in recruitment for a period of time and then you think, you know what, I'm making this much money for that person, I just do it myself and, and that's honestly where it started and it, it started there and then I realized actually I didn't take into account all the things that you have to do as a business owner besides recruitment. So now starting out on my own, I ended up getting into a position where I had a few contractors working, I had A newborn child at the time. And it was, it was reasonably luxurious in the sense that, you know, I could do some work for X amount of hours and then I can chill with my new Boston for a few hours. So I got into what I thought was an okay routine, but in hindsight, it was a bad routine. Eventually met my business partner Dan, came on board and we continued to grow the business on our own for a few years. We made a few hires and fires without the knowledge of everything that we've learned on the program. And yeah, none of them really worked out for different reasons though. But we learned a lot along the way. And then it was the year of COVID When Covid hit. It's the same year we started. Talking to yourself. And then, yeah, things have been fantastic ever since. So awesome. Cool.

So walk us back through then. So when did you start your agency? MO so when did you and Danny found the company?

So I registered it in 2015 while I was still in a job with another company because I just decided I was going to go do it. 2016 officially started. I might be getting my years mixed up. It's either 2015 or 2016. And then a year later, Dan came on board with me. So while I was getting the business up and running, one of my old clients reached out and just said, look, just to give you a helping hand, why don't you do a little bit of our internal recruitment for us? So I'm trying to build my own business, but then part time working remotely, internally, and that's where I'm at. My business partner, Dan, because it really changed my perspective on recruiters, especially when I was on the receiving end of what was coming through. So I'd give a description of, okay, this is what I'm looking for. And I get the complete opposite from a recruiter. You're saying, oh, what about this? What about. No, that. And Dan was the only one who really just stuck to whatever I said. And he'd call me up a few weeks later just to say, look, I'm trying not go anywhere. Yeah, this is it. So yeah, I appreciated that. And, and that's when I kind of popped the question to Dan and it took about nine months. Could have had a kid in time. And yeah, then, then we ended up going into business together. And yeah, it's been great ever since. I wouldn't change anything.

Awesome. So, yeah, a lot of people make sometimes what we call make the mistake of actually going into partnership. So what's been, what was the, what was the main driving force behind having a partner in your agency, the driver.

Was to have somebody else alongside me that was just as hungry and driven as I was. And I suppose on your own it's easy to find your comfort zone and then when you have somebody else who's just as hungry and driven, they'll push you outside your comfort zone and make you go this, that little bit further. So when you're, I mean, being open and honest, if you're one working from home, you've got no real costs, no employees, everything is, is running smoothly and you've got an income coming in beyond 60 or 70k, it's like, what's the point? Like in profit anyway, what's the point beyond that? You know, you can still take home a decent income, you can live a decent lifestyle, you can go on holidays and all that. Beyond that, it's, there's not much of a driver and then it's only when you have somebody else, like, no, actually we're capable of more than this, so why don't we just fulfill our potential and having that other person. Not to say that I wasn't that. It's just I was in a comfort zone. So for me it was, it was a natural move to do that. And. And I'd say in a lot of business cases, ones that I've heard of anyway, that haven't worked out, it's usually because one person brings something to the table that the other person doesn't have and that's what makes it work. And it was really weird with me and Dan because in hindsight I probably wouldn't go into business the way that I did with Dan. Didn't speak about anything, just said, look, this is it, let's go do it. And. And we kind of put some money into a pot and went for it. And then it was only. It was literally months later we realized, oh, actually we've got a similar taste in music. Oh, we've got. We like cars as well. Oh, we're actually could be friends while we're doing this as well. So, yeah, it just worked out well. I don't recommend going into business someone without talking to them in detail and getting to know them really well. But in this case, thankfully, it worked really well.

Yeah, it's really been great to see yours and Danny's journey over that time because you do really complement each other. So I think that's been one of the testaments to your success. Skill out that agency is because you both have different qualities within the business as well. So which we'll Dive into further. So walk us through then. So back when you start the agency, Mo year one, year two, year three, as you progress, what would you say your biggest challenges were? What were the pain points you were facing back then?

So if. If I exclude year one, where I was on my own because I got into this comfort zone position when it was me and Dan, I feel like that's when the business really kicked off because before that it was just solo and on my own and not really doing too much. So I think it was a matter of a month, maybe two, when we got our first placement over the line and things began together. Gather momentum off that. We always said we're going to go two to three years maximum on our own just to see what we're capable of. So we did that and then we ended up making our first hire, but we got rid of her within three months and we realized, no, this was not a good hire. So we ended up hiring a junior. And I suppose that's a mistake in itself where she had, like no experience in recruitment. So not only did I lose the time that I had to focus on revenue generation, but I also had an employee that was taken care of as well and trying to show them the ropes. I. I blame myself more than the employee about the hire. It's just our fault. Then we thought, okay, let's try hiring an experienced recruiter who does something that doesn't overlap with what we do. And that didn't work out either because that person just wanted to do his own thing and not be as connected. And as much as we tried to bring him closer and closer, you might remember this because this was quite early on when we started as we tried to bring him a little bit closer into the business, it was just. There was just a lot of resistance and it got to a point where I just can't be bothered with it anymore. So we caught it a day. He appears to be doing well, so good luck to him. But it just didn't suit us anymore.

Yeah, that makes sense. And you made the same mistake as many other agency owners. I think when they first hire, it's normally a fire as well, and then the next ones are hiring a fire. And you realize, like, sometimes where you built the agency, you haven't really built a proper, what we call business that's got flow to complement that. So. Yeah. So. So what made you, when you came into the program then, Mo? I think that was 2020, I think, originally, wasn't it?

I think so, yeah.

So. So how did. Did you come across myself. And what decided for you to invest in that?

So my, I, I at that point in time, well, a few months before, I hadn't read a single business book in my life. I just like, what's the point? I'll just watch somebody else on YouTube and then go and do it. I mean principally I was okay, but I was watching the wrong stuff. My, I explained some of the challenges that I had in the business because we were in this position where it's like if we wanted to earn more, we had to work more and if we wanted to work less, we would lose clients. It's like, you know, you just wouldn't fulfill the service. And my brother in law told me about this book called the four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss and I just couldn't believe what I was hearing. And I ended up listening to it on audible back to back, I think about 18 or so times. I just could, I just didn't believe it was real. So then we came back after the Christmas break and I was like, right, this is what we're going to do, Dan. So it's like, Dan, we're going to do this. He goes, okay, I trust you, go do it. And I was like, they're trying to figure out how do I find a va, how do I automate this, how do I do that? I just couldn't get my head around it. And then I heard you talking about it on a podcast and you mentioned the same book and I just messaged you on LinkedIn and yeah, then we started talking.

Yeah, it's awesome. It's been a good book that I remember back in the day when I read for our workweek and obviously it's helped a lot of people open the rise up to outsourcing and delegating and definitely VAs as well back then originally. So okay, so, so what was like the journey like, so walk us through like the first month or two when you, when you came in and you started looking at the structure for like your business and content work. Can you share like a specific strategy or technique from like that you learned in the program that had like a real impact on your agency at the start?

I'd say, I'd say the course content in itself was really valuable. I don't know if you remember but you, you said to us at the time like I can do you a package where I do one to one coaching. I don't think you offer that anymore. But at the time you, it was that or the course. Yeah. And, and my response was I don't want to do a course. I just rather talk to you. And. And we ended up taking up the. You are up on both, basically. So we just said, all right, we'll do the course and do the one to one. So once I got through the course, I was like, oh, shit. This is like everything that I've been thinking about implementing from four hour workweek and it's already spelled out for me. And I suppose this is where Dan and I was slightly veered off in terms of how we delivered everything, because Dan was like, I'm going to watch one or two videos a day and join one or two coaching calls. I think I got through the entire program in a weekend. And I was like, I don't care. I just, I need to get this done. So I got through it in a weekend and I watched it again a week later. So it's like, okay, I know everything that's happening here. And then from there on I joined every, you know, every single coaching call, even the ones I was not meant to for the best part of like 18 months after that. And I updated you as I was going along. But I suppose, I suppose the biggest impact thing was my mindset where I, I began to value the clarity that I have in my mind more than anything else. And you, you can only do that by detaching yourself from the actual business. So once I began to value my mindset more, I also began to see what was a bit like a doctor. You're looking from the outside and seeing, okay, this is what's going on. And then I could see, okay, right, these are problems. Like, here's the bottlenecks. This is what works and this is what doesn't work. How do I make it smoother? And sometimes it was two or three attempts. Like, could this work? Like, no, it didn't work. No, let's try that again. Let's try it again. And eventually you smooth out the process. Thankfully, in your case, I just, I would just ask you like 18 questions on every group coaching call. Like, what about this? What about that? And you answered all of them. And we just go away for the next week and implement everything, test it, make sure it works. I'll come back with more questions the following week. So, yeah, the mindset was a big shift. And if I could recommend a book, there's a book called Critical Systems Thinking and that complemented it at the same time. And it just makes you think, like, how do you build a system where things can happen without you? And ultimately all of these cogs and processes are in your head, they're working. It's like when something happens, then you go and do this. You just got to document it and then deliver it to somebody else and say, here you go, you do it.

Yeah, well, let's dive into that Mo, because I know one of the biggest successes for you has been managing to systemize your agency into a way where you've managed yourself out of the business. Now where you were definitely coming to me thinking, James, what do I do now? Because like my diary is empty and I've sort of delegated everything. So walk us through like at the start then, Mo, what were the first things you started to implement? So obviously big for you was the VA team and how did you start to delegate?

So I started with the, the simplest and easiest thing. I think there was a lot of like, because we hadn't hired a VA before and it's like, how are we going to trust someone on the other side of the world with this information? And there was a lot of nerves, like we just didn't, weren't sure if it was going to work out or not. So we thought, okay, let's go with the simplest thing that nobody could possibly screw up. And it was, it started off with formatting a cv. Can we get someone else to format the cv? Okay, it might take them a little bit longer, but my time's more valuable. I can generate another candidate in the time that I'm formatting cv. So we started that and we did it for one week. Like, okay, you imagine these girls who joined us and we promised them full time hours and a week later it's like they've only got a five minute job to do and it's like they're still with us. By the way, none of them have ever left. So yeah, we started off with the simplest thing and I thought, okay, let me go a little bit more complex, let me go a little bit more complex. And you, you end up realizing that every single process has this happens and then you make a decision on what the next step is. As long as you can explain the decision making process, that's the first part done. And it might not be that you deliver the entire process, it might just be the first bit. And, and when I got into the habit of just breaking everything down into baby steps and just making sure it was idiot proof, I suppose that's where it kicked off because then from there it was like, okay, now it doesn't make sense for me to do anything that I can get done for a fraction of the value of my time. So I've been on a rampage for the last few years and I've literally given away everything. I don't do invoicing, no formatting, CVs, I don't chase up hardly anything in terms of clients. Like everything is really well organized and delegated, all with a training manual for someone else to do. And now it's, now it's a case of you hire someone to do the recruitment part and you do the exact same thing there. Now hiring has become easy because we've got a training manual. I don't even need to spend the time anymore. Now the next job is hiring someone who can do the hiring for us as well. So I'm documenting that at the moment.

So. So walk us through then. So you hired your first VA part time and like I say, always like, don't worry about what tasks you're going to give them. Trust me, over time you'll realize that you'll easily fill up a full time calendar of a va. So, so you mentioned your VA team has been with you since pretty much day one. So obviously what would you say the, the key ingredients have been for you to have. That sticks around as well.

Definitely being dependable. So if you message them, do, how quickly do they reply you, you know, you ask them anything and they'll come back. They're happy to jump on a call quickly. So it's, there's certain qualities, like I'd say human qualities that you want in all of your team and then the rest of it is coachable. So I don't think it's as complex. I think we make it more complex in our head. But at the end of the day, you want someone who's got good human qualities that you can find in anyone. I say anyone, but everyone could have them. Not everyone does. And when you have those qualities, you just everything else, you can build on it if you really think about it. Yeah, I can, I can teach, I could probably teach my son, who's 7, like how to do certain things on the system as long as I give him a video instruction and said, look, do it like this, follow this step by step and he'll do it. So if he can do it, why can't anyone else 100%.

So what would you say with the other key strategies that you implemented from the program? So you really nailed down managed to what, like how many hours a week would you say you saved in terms of your working hours from implementing the VA system?

Well, I've made myself redundant. So all of it. I say, I say that because now it's. If I look at my calendar and I look at what are the critical things that I need to do, where if they don't happen, either people are going to leave or business is going to close down or something like that, it's only one thing, which is paying everyone, like doing the bank transfers. That's the only thing I'd say is critical. Everything else someone else can take care of in the company, or at least they know how to do it. So that doesn't mean I don't work at all. It just means that I focus on things that are more valuable.

Yeah, that's true. It's funny, I still actually do half the pay run on one of my companies. I enjoy still doing that. It's obviously a task. It just. I like to control the money in the bank sometimes and just see a little bit what's, what's going on. So, okay, so you implemented the, the VAs. And one of the key things that I think a lot of people struggle with is actually trusting your virtual remote team to manage your inbox and email inbox. I know we go through a lot of that in the training. So what would you say? Did you have to overcome any hurdles or with Danny or partner on any resistance or if, like letting these VAs, like, take over your inbox?

And I'd say I. I didn't delegate my inbox until probably 18 months after working with, with my VA. So we ended up hiring two VAs. We now have three. One takes a little bit more direction from me and one a little bit more from Dan. And I mean, we still, we're still pretty much in our inboxes. It's just, there's not as much going on as what there used to be. I mean, I, I still have my entire life and calendar connected to the same one, so I can't completely get out of it. I know you said set up another email. I just haven't done it yet. So my fault. There's a quick fix to that. So I suppose at the beginning it was just, it was just more nerves. It was just like, how do we trust someone with this information? Like, what have you actually got that's that sensitive in your inbox? Like, you got birth certificates in there, you got passports in there, credit card details. I've given them all to my va, by the way. So she, she books my flights for me, she has my credit card details, she pays for stuff, she orders stuff when I don't need to. But that comes with time, it comes with experience, and it comes with trust. She's become. She's become a family friend now. In fact, she is my emergency contact now for just about everything because she has my dad's number, she has my brother's number, my wife's number. If I go missing and anything happens, she's the one who chases up everyone. It's only happened once, and that's because I didn't have Internet connection for a period of time. But. But that just goes to show how much trust and loyalty I have with her. It didn't start like that. It started off with, can I trust her to format a cv? And then it was, can I trust her to send this email from her email account? Can I trust her to copy and paste this Message template on LinkedIn? So it starts off with the smaller things, but once you package it all together, it's like, okay, it's. It's a load of small things that you're putting together, and that's what builds trust. So now she's. Yeah, she manages my email inbox. She manages my LinkedIn inbox. I haven't given her access to other socials, but I actually have hired a separate VA to help me manage my. Even though I haven't got anything too crazy on other socials. But it's like, time is time. At the end of the day, I'd rather not spend an hour replying to messages on Instagram.

Yeah, that makes sense. So. So walk us through. So how much were you paying them back when it started, and what are you paying your VAs now?

I actually don't know. I think we started them on. It was dollars. It was $3 an hour. They must be on 450 now. I can't remember. I actually don't keep track of it anymore because they do their invoices and they just tell me what I need to pay them, and I don't even check anymore because I've got that much trust in them. But I suppose if I got a bill for $1,000, I'd be like, okay, something's not right here. I just never had that. So it started off on $3. We increased it every year we give them bonuses for other things as well. So they do a placement, they get a bonus. If they book in a call, they get a bonus. If any one of them has a birthday, they get a bonus. If they have a baby, they'll get a bonus. Which did happen. And, yeah, we. That's where I say we've kind of like Become really good friends because I've, I've got to know them, their family and you know, if even when her daughter one of them anyway, or all of them, if they've got kids, then it's, you know, if they do something really cool at school and we get talking to them, they're like, all right, you know, you got a certificate, well done. I was like, cool, you guys are having a party, here's a little something, go and have a party together. And that's built a two way relationship. So yeah, that works really well. So I've made friends in the process anyway.

Yeah, and you mentioned a good point there. Like your VAs actually source deals for you and made placements. Yeah. So obviously we've got the remote sourcing team which we're going to mention about differently where we have them in a different country doing a lot of the sourcing. But your VAs like which are traditionally in the Philippines, they're still DMing and getting placements for you.

So same thing again. We just. Here's a list of first line messages that you can send. Here's a list of second line messages to follow up. Here's a list of third line message templates that you can use. And then when people reply, what do they reply with? It's either I'm interested, I'm not interested, try me in a few months, or don't contact me again. You know, there's a certain, there's only a handful, I think there's only six or seven categories of different replies you'll get when you message someone. And we just have template replies for all of them. And again, this wasn't something that we did straight away. It took a few months before we got there. We just started with all of the admin invoicing, anything that could be done on the CRM. We started with all of those little bits first and then eventually it became, okay, let's see if you can generate a candidate. And then we build out calendly links so they can book in calls into our diary with the CV attached and yeah, they generate candidates as well. So and then we, we've also added in the remote sourcing team as well. So we've got three girls in, in South Africa now, one that focuses on clients, two that generate candidates. And it still surprises me, I know I've told you this before, I could put in a phone call. So nobody, I don't get a reply. Alex puts in a phone call, nobody replies. The girls in South Africa send out a video message, no reply and, and then the girl in the Philippines sends a message on LinkedIn, gets a reply. Same kind of like, how does that. I don't understand how it happens, but it happens.

Yeah, well, I say this all the time. It's. That's why you want to have multiple LinkedIn profiles and multiple ways to contact people. Because people buy from people sometimes or how they look or the timing or anything. It's just weird. Like we, we have that the same. So for those people that have just operating their own LinkedIn profile, being a solopreneur or them and two recruiters, like, this is the reason why you have a remote sourcing team. You have your VA team, then you have your delivery team and you've got different angles of approach to, to get candid in one way, you're missing out on so many deals just by not messaging. Multiple different angles. So. Yeah, that makes sense. So on average, what would you say in terms of your VA team? Like, are they what's normally the.

I could probably give you a more accurate number of how many calls they book in if I. And I. And I'll give you a very true number just by looking at slack and counting it right now. So on the last where's the new candidates channel? This is how often I check. I don't even know where it is. Right, new candidates. One, two, three, four, five. That's just today. Five candidates. And then six, seven, eight, nine, ten. So five yesterday as well. And then one, two, three, four, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 on Monday. These are all calls booked. So just keep in mind that's a combination of the sourcing team and the VA team together. You know, that many candidates is. Is just a bit crazy to handle, to be honest.

Yeah. And, and does that turn into like, on average, how many placements would you say per month?

I'd say. I'd say six to seven placements is becoming quite average now. Once upon a time it was two or three. Six or seven is very common now. And we have a new employee starting first week in October. So I'm expecting that to go closer to 10.

Wow. And that's all done. Hands off remote. By sourcing team. Not you or Danny. Sourcing Danny.

Danny and I. Well, Danny and I now do get involved because I've. I've gone through the last few years of system, systemizing, automating, everything. It's just, it's at a stage now where, okay, we don't have to, but if we do, we'll get a little bit extra. And if me and Dan Do a deal together. It's, it's pure profit. Like we don't, we're not paying anybody else. There's no splits or anything. So we just thought, okay, if we could do an extra couple of deals a month, why not? So we make that contribution, but we keep that very separate from the contribution of the entire team. So that. And that's out of choice. So if we dropped it today, we would still carry on going. It's just a lot of people wouldn't say no to an extra 20k.

Yeah, for sure. So, so look at the contrast between. Like when you and Danny started the agency, it was just you two, you hired and fired a couple employees. So you were doing dealing clients and trying to generate leads to the contrast to where it is right now, which is the difference of like, you're not doing any placements at all. You've just got sources and you've got a delivery team. So you've got, I think, is it two or three delivery consultants as well, like what we call 180 recruiters that do the deals for you.

So, yeah, we've got, so we've got. If we separate, if you just consider any business, to be honest, I think it works like that. You've got marketing, sales, delivery in, in recruitment, sales and delivery is. Just goes together. So the VA team, the. This is the girls in the Philippine, Philippines, they contribute towards candidate generation. The girls in 2 girls in South Africa, they focus purely on candidate generation. One of them focuses on client generation. And that's a mixture of things including, you know, if a client uploads a job, let's find out why they haven't given it to us. So she's on the ball with that really quickly. She will pull in new clients as well because I've taught her how to do some of the BD pitches and where to get information from. So, you know, we've, we've got it coming inbound from both angles, meaning candidates flowing in from one side, clients flowing in from another. And sometimes it's like the perfect match is made on the day and off it goes. And then now we've hired Alex. We did hire someone who didn't work out. She's left. And then between Alex, me, Danny, we're still doing very well. And now we've got another employee starting as well. So if you include me and Danny, there'll be four of us doing a little bit of delivery part time, me and Dan. If I say that.

Yeah. And that's why I say a lot of people inside the program sometimes you can scale up like Ken and you know, an elite that might build out a bigger team of like 8 to 10 and get to your 152 and a K months. But the big difference where you're doing multiple six figures a year, but it's zero percent of your time. So a lot of people that are doing maybe more a million 1.5 a year, but they're working 50, 60 hours having to do a lot. That's the difference between your business, which is a high cash flow, and business which we call as a real asset. Yeah, because I know you're very into your gold and properties as well, but like your recruitment business now turns on cash every single year without much impact from you.

Honestly, the time back is worth so much more. I think people on the call wouldn't know, but at the time, it's like had a, had a newborn son for the best part of the first two years. I don't think I got too much time with it with him. And it kind of kills me inside because it's like I worked all that time and I didn't do it the way that I'm doing now. Now it's completely different. I do, I don't like my wife doing the school run. I was like, no, I want the time with the kids. So I take one to school, come back, and then I take the other one to school, then I come back. So I do both school runs in the morning, then I do my work, and then I do both school runs in the evening. And then if I need to finish off, I'll carry on. The free time has allowed me to do all the things that you want to do outside of work because the goal isn't to do no work. You just get bored if you did that. And that did happen to me at one point because I delegated everything. Like, now what do I do? I got a thing to do because I'm so used to the pace of life being really quick, quick. And that was never the goal. The goal was to do more of the things that I enjoy, do more of the things that have more purpose and meaning for me. And for me, that's not family, my religious commitments, my investment portfolio that we talk about, and now personal brand, other businesses that there's other things that I want to get involved in as well. So yeah, my time is, is split across, but it's not, it's just not stressful anymore. Like even today, I'll give you the example, Dan's still on paternity. Leave. He had a baby boy. Alex is on leave. It's just me. I did do a few hours worth of work today. I booked in six interviews, six interviews with the use of VAS and the support that they've offered. And then I've still gone and done the school run, both sides. I've come back and now had this call. So as much as a lot has happened today, it's just not, it doesn't have the same stress and pressure as it did a few years ago and that had a knock on effect on, you know, my family time because I was so stressed out with the amount of things I was going on. But now it's, yeah, throw whatever you want at me. I've got, I've got nine people behind me that are going to help me. So I do, I do really value and respect even my team as well.

Yeah. Because one of the things that you have now is consistency. Monthly roundup in the elite Mastermind. You were always very consistent with the business and the billings now and that must have been a good feeling considering like when you first start your agency it is always feast and famine and it's very reliant on you. Whereas like when you. More consistent results.

Yeah, for sure.

What would you say the biggest thing on mindset? Because you mentioned that on the start. Well, you mentioned you'd never read a book before, then you read for our work week. So what would you say are the biggest mindset shifts that people need to make to be successful in their agency?

I'd say anything that you can do to shortcut your success is worth it. So by that what I mean is I'm not just saying this because you're not. I'm not. For the record, James is not paying me to do this. I'm doing this at my own time. On Honestly, like where I was struggling with implementing the four hour work week principles and then I had you teaching me how to put it in place because you've already done it like for me that if I reckon without your help it would have taken me two or three years to get to that point. Whereas with your help it was a matter of nine months. So anything that you can do to shortcut your success. So that could be business books, seminars, investing in your own personal development or all of these things are really valuable because they, they help kickstart you and they give you all the direction, they give you the momentum and then you continue. And on that note, I've, I've decided to stop investing in properties because I. The amount of money that I put into you and what I got back in terms of ROI on my time, it's like, why am I investing in properties? I got like 1500% increase on my value of my time by paying you, but I get barely 10 a year on property. So I actually selling all of them and I've sold two and I've got my last one that should complete this Friday. And then all of that money is being reinvested into my own education just in terms of developing further development, how I can become better, all of that stuff.

Love hearing that more because, like, that's one of the biggest things I've always preached is the biggest investment is in yourself. It's not in a new car, it's not in people. Spend 20k on redoing the kitchen or the living room and I'm like, you haven't even sorted the money thing out with your business. You've got your business and you're not investing in that or yourself to make more money. So then you can buy even better kitchen. So it's great to see like your mindset shift with that more and the progression you've made over the last two or three programs as well. And you always invest in yourself now. So it's, it's also, it's a good addiction book to have because, like, you're always going to get a good ROI, more than 6 to 10% in the stock market or in property.

You can't lose, can't lose. Literally can't lose. You know, like, even if, even if I literally lost everything now, it's like the knowledge of how to grow a business to where it is now, I know that it's all in my head. Like I could, I could get it done quickly and I can say that with confidence because I've done it once before. So if I were to do it again, I'm only going to do it quicker and I don't have to, like, without sound English, but I don't have to watch all your training videos all over again because I watched them seven times, I memorized them now, so I can just get it done. So, yeah, knowledge, knowledge will just stay with you forever. And, and the more I think about it, it's like, even with my kids, okay, I want to set them up nicely, but arguably the knowledge that I give them is more valuable than any car, property, portfolio, whatever else I give them. If I can give them the knowledge, they can go hunt for now, hunt it all themselves. Whereas if I give them the cash or the equivalent they don't know how to handle it. They won't value it. So he 7 year old should be starting his first business next week as well. So he's attempting to sell cookies to our neighbors. Let's see how it goes.

That's awesome. So yeah, it's great. Mindset's a big thing and obviously a lot of people that are listening come on about it all the time. Even myself over the last week I was listening to Success by Napoleon Hill. Just reprogramming my mind, like things I forgot about that I learned five years ago. Just like always keep shortening the sword, always be the student. So we talk about like teachability index from 0 to 100. You need to have a teachability index of 100. Always wanting to be teachable and open no matter what you think you know, especially in the recruitment world. We all know a lot of recruitment agents. I was one of them. You get very egotistical, think you know best and you're set in your ways about like how things are done and everything else. And once you start to open and just like look at the other side and think, could things be done a little bit different? Could I manage a business a little bit different? Because you don't know what you don't know and a lot of people don't realize figured out a little bit better than you and sometimes you need to swallow a pill or whatever to think actually I'm going to learn from this person because they do know something that I don't know because they're somewhere further ahead than where I should be. Because a lot of people are putting in the work and the grit and determination. I'm sure there's a lot of harder workers than me and you more out there in the recruitment world, but they're probably not getting the same results. So. Yeah. So. So what's next for you, you and the agency then? So with all the progress you made over the last few years, mo and it's a transition. Yeah. Because you've been in your business I think seven or eight years. Seven or eight years, I think 2015. So sometime I started my agency and I always say like probably up to five years is normally the ceiling point when it's like you've done everything in the business and you do get a little bit bored of it as such and you want another project, et cetera. But the beauty about having a recruitment agency done with the right systems and the agency blueprint ways, you're creating a business that you can either build to sell one day. John Warrilow, great book and I know you've read it multiple times as well. But having the choice where that business can still run without you and you still own the business and take cash flow from it every month where you can do the next thing. So is that the thing for you, like where you're looking for something else you want to do with your time and the business is churning out profit every month for you and then focus on things?

I mean, we're at a stage now where everything is in manuals and training manuals and it's like, it's just so easy to scale now. So we've, we believe we can get another six, five or six delivery consultants in place that will further consolidate our presence in our market that we focus on. And that will, that will mean that we might need to add a few more people in South Africa as well for, to help with the, with the sourcing side of it. But there's a balance in place now. We understand that the ratio of workload for both and they do complement each other and work. So if we go absolutely crazy on that, on the hiring, we could probably get there within a year, maybe sooner. But just keep in mind that wouldn't mean any more time out my day because it's all documented and ready to be implemented. So the journey is a lot easier from here on. And, and I suppose that's the point that you want to get to just you, you mentioned earlier about how people get bored of recruitment when you, when you start doing this, as in documenting and, and delegating your workload. That is the new project and it's so fun. Like I've, I've enjoyed it so much. I'm kind of like jealous. I'm coming to an end where it's like I haven't got anything left to delegate. But there's value in teaching and showing somebody else to do it and then you give somebody else an opportunity and then you see how well they're performing and it's like, man, that was the job I wish I had. If I had that job and it, I probably wouldn't have left.

Yeah, it's so true. And it's part of the journey, like building your business. I look at the best times. Ronald James and my recruitment agents.

Yeah.

Two year three when I was figuring out like LinkedIn automation, which we haven't really touched on today. But I know You've automated all LinkedIn automation campaigns, like figuring out the new tools to implement video outreach, email campaigns automated to get clients and all those little buzzers when you get a good buzzback or bite back on the client or you get a candidate inbound from your va, that turns into a deal. Like, those are the best moments, the journey, like as you're building something which, which is awesome. So what would you say to, like, what advice would you give to someone that like, maybe they're on the webinar here, watching back on YouTube or wherever it's considering joining the agency blueprint and my program, what would you say to them that they're on the fence and upon joining.

Just do it. Just do it. It's. It's a genuine game changer. And I said this to you privately, James, and I, and I'll say it again, like, if I had known the impact that it was going to have on me for what I've paid you so far, I would have paid double. Like, had I known the impact. Appreciate you not sending me the bill for that, but I would have done, I would have done that. Like, honestly, that's the impact that has had so yet considering all of it, like you're only going to learn and worst case scenario, you work away, walk away with more knowledge. It's a risk worth taking. And on that note of investments. Yeah, I've probably spent 20k or so in the last 12 months just on different courses and trying to understand things just for my own personal development. So. And it's all been well worth it. Not all of them have been a cash roi, but I've seen the impact that it's had. So, yeah, always invest in yourself and, and for recruitment. Yeah. You're the man for sure.

Thanks, Paul, I appreciate that. So for many aspiring and current agency owners that we've got listening today, because we've got quite a few that are 20k months and beyond. Yeah. So what's the one actionable step like they can take right now, irrespective of whether they join the program or not?

I, I'd say start paying attention to what they're actually doing right now. So you can download an app, the one that I've played around with, this thing called desk time. If you can actually monitor what you're doing day to day, it makes it a lot easier for you to understand what you need to remove and what you need to delegate and, and automate because everything that you're doing in your time, one of those three things is about to happen. You're either going to get rid of it because you realize it, it's a waste of time, or you're going to give it to somebody else, and then you're going to pay for them. And then when you pay for them, you're going to realize, why am I paying someone $3 an hour to do it? If it's not worth $3, it's not worth doing. So it goes back into delete mode. And then for everything else remaining is automation. And I'd say that's like the best thing that you can do to give yourself a head start. This app, Desktime, I do endorse it because it's. It's brilliant. You can download it on all your devices and it literally records, like, the URLs that you've been on and you can categorize everything and you end up getting a report at the end of the week. And it's like, oh, actually I worked 40 hours, but I was on my screen for 100 and somehow still got 2 out 2 hours of TikTok videos during my work hours at the same time. How did you manage that? Like you did, though? So you'll end up realizing, all right, we need to remove and block certain things to stop yourself from doing it. But, yeah, getting, getting an instant feedback loop on what you're actually doing will tell you more. And plus, that report that it gives you will also tell you, well, you'll know what you were doing, but it will tell you what you need to delegate.

Really good advice. And I think that's one of the key things is time management. The owners get swamped up, do, like doing the do and busy being busy, but they're not actually doing anything productive to generate revenue. So I think, like, the only way to do that is actually analyze and look back over. I think that's a great tool to use. So, Mo, we're just going to open it on to the audience. And so for the ladies and gentlemen that are live on the audience, thank you for listening in so far. Hope you've had some great golden nuggets for Mo and really appreciate your time, Mo. So any questions, let me know in the chat and we'll go through. And Mo would answer some questions and we can go through things. So Sam asks, did Mo write the training manuals himself or get someone paid to put that together?

No, it did it all myself. All of it started myself. However, you get to a point where you can trust your team to make decisions and then they start making the manuals for you.

Yeah, like, the best way I normally say is, like, you record the loom video, you get them to watch it back, analyze it, put it in A Google Doc with bullet points like just. Just sort of like sparing me at the start. Implement the task review after week one. Get a more detailed screenshots on each step. And yeah, you can get like UVA most of the time to get that on but you don't want to hire someone else to do it. You need to understand everything that's going on in your business to build each system. I think someone asked earlier on about the book you mentioned. Critical System. Is it Critical Systems?

Critical Systems Thinking. Yeah. It's not available on Audible, only hard copy. But worth. It's worth it. Cool.

Someone was asking what CRM's I guess software do you suggest we recommend recruiter flow inside our program? I think you're with them Mo as well.

Yeah.

The next question, how long would you say James's program?

That's a hard question. Like it's. We were already billing but I've also seen other people in the course who joined with no recruitment experience. Like Sammy, who you've done an interview with. He's been better than me. I was like, how the hell is he done that? And he just didn't even have any recruitment experience before he's joined. So yeah, well done to Sammy, like really happy for him. But yeah, it's. I suppose that has a direct impact on how much time you put into it. If you go through the course and you deliver it and you, you do everything properly and you attend all the coaching calls, there is. There's no reason why you can't because all the guidance is there on every single department.

Yeah. It's a good answer to says if you just get, just get started as a solo agency, how do you go about getting clients and how much capital would you. First months.

Quickest and easiest way is you'll spot a job on Indeed that's being advertised. That's in the market that you, that you want. And this is assuming you don't have any money at all. You just call the company, maybe even pretend and sound like a candidate, like just saying, hey, I've seen this job. I'm interested in putting a CV forward. And they'll be like, oh, can I speak to the manager? Don't tell them you're from a recruitment company. Just say that. And a lot of the time, oh yeah, yeah, we're trying to fill that position. We'll put you through and then you talk to them. It's like, yeah, I'm a recruitment agency. It doesn't always go down well. But I'm assuming you don't have any money at all. If you have some cash to put into it, then use a source. There's some automation that James teaches as well in terms of how you can automate outreach to clients on LinkedIn and on email. Plug all of that in. That is just. Yeah, the results are phenomenal on that. So if you've got cash, leverage it to do it quicker.

Yeah, good advice. Butun says, which site do you find your VA's? We recommended OnlineJobs. Ph, I don't know. Where did you find yours more? Because they were.

I found mine upwork.

So remember, it's not just finding the person, it's like having the structure of like the systems, how you delegate, understanding how you operate. Because if you operate what I would call the old 360 recruitment agency model, which most of you are, the VA won't work because you won't have time for them, first of all, because you're doing all sorts of other things, so you'll never have time managing, training them. So you need systems and some automation initially to get a VA in so you can spend the right time with them to make sure they're doing the right tasks. So it's not just finding them on a 5 or upwork. That's probably 1 or 2% of the task.

Yeah, I mean, for me, upwork worked really well because they take care of the payment. Yes, it works out a little bit more expensive because of the charges, but that gave us an excuse to start them part time. And then as we delegated more responsibilities, we just slowly increased their hours. As soon as they hit 40, it's like, right, you're full time with us now. Get off this.

I think Mike was asking, by starting with just CV formatting for the VA a week and gradually building from there, was there still a small dip in your billings while you trained them up and developed the training manuals? And if so, what stage did you bring back profit from your first va?

So marginally there was. Just keep in mind, we started doing this during COVID so our industry was as good as dead anyway. Like it was. It was a genuine struggle. Like there was a. I mean, me and Dan both had other investments, so it's like we weren't going to completely shut it down. But the actual business did struggle during COVID but for $3 an hour it's like, no, that wasn't going to break the bank. So it's like, okay, let's just keep upskilling the VAs. And I'd say that you get the return immediately, which is on your time. So the moment you delegate and you free up, let's say a half an hour window that you were spending formatting cvs, you've now got that back to reallocate into something more valu. So if you're really good at generating candidates, then brilliant, you're half an hour more to generate candidates. So you end up getting the return instantly. It doesn't look like that because it looks like you're, you're, you know, getting, you're spending money on a va, but actually you get it back instantly because now you're spending, you're able to spend more time on, on higher value activities.

Yeah, it's very true. If you look at the cost of a va, like even what you're paying them still over time, it's not even pretty much one placement a year to buy back all of your time every week.

So they generate around 12 placements for us a year. So it's like they get a good chunk of bonuses.

It's a no brainer. Copy asks, what was it? John? It's John Warrilow. Put more questions and then we'll let you go more. So some asks when selecting your beer, what skills you're looking for on the profile. Interview them because I hear you say you had to teach them everything from smallest tasks I get. I guess attitude was key.

I'd say a good laptop like just check their processor speed, just make sure they're not, you know, running on Windows 98. Some of you might be too young to know what that is, but make sure it's not a really old laptop. Make sure they've got a good Internet speed connection. So you know, do a speed test while you're on a call with them and then the rest of it you figure out as you're going along, like when you message them, do they turn up, do they reply quickly? Do they turn up to the zoom calls? Are they good with their timekeeping? And that's the only thing that you're looking for. Everything else depends on the results. So if you can teach them to do something and you've spelt it out crystal clear, do they deliver the results? Here's the thing, like 90 of the time, if they deliver the wrong result, it's your fault because you just haven't explained it clearly enough. And then you, you got to do it again and just make sure and you become better at this as, as time progresses. But yeah, you become better at it and then eventually it's like you, you'll get into the habit of just continually giving away everything to the point that you have nothing left.

I think that's pretty much. I don't want to take up too much more of your time, Mo. But that was really impactful. So is there anything else, like one last share of advice that you would like to share to the audience or any words from your experience and, and advice for recruitment agency owners out there generally?

I suppose we kind of covered a lot, but there's, there's one thing that I got from the program and working with yourself is the community that comes with it. And there were so many other people that were on the same journey as us. Some a little bit ahead, some a little bit behind. I can help the ones behind and, and I learned from the ones who were ahead. So it wasn't just necessarily everything revolves around yourself and, and some of the other people in your team. It was okay, there's other people who have figured out stuff and just by hearing them I was able to preempt a problem that I was going to face six months down the line and fix it before it even happened. And now I've again made a few friends along the way as well. And it's really nice to have those friends because those friends are the grinders and they're the ones that are working to build something and they're the ones that I want to be around. So yeah, the community is super valuable.

Yeah, it's probably one of the biggest things we probably missed out until now was you are who you surround yourself with. So because you came through the program and in the mastermind around other people that are doing maybe a little bit more than you that spurs you on and think actually it is possible because people need to see what's possible. It's not just like we're being very detached from someone that's already made it. It's like being in the trenches with other people and making friendships of people that are there doing it every day and proving that it works. So yeah, like community is very important, especially as a recruitment agency owner where you by yourself working from home or in a small office, you need other like minded people to be around. So yeah. Awesome Mo. Well listen, thank you so much for your time. I hope everyone enjoyed that was listening in and listening to the recording and catch you all soon. Thanks again Mo.

Take care.

Bye bye.