Testimonies of Victory with Robert Pineda

All right, we're live. All right, so welcome everybody. Um, this is the Testimonies of Victory podcast from Creation Awaits, and tonight I have a special guest. I have Robert Panetta, and he will be giving his testimony tonight of how he overcame pornography addiction. As you guys know, I'm a biblical counselor from Tampa, Florida, and I write um, biblical counseling articles for Creation Awaits. And I created the Victory in Christ porn addiction resource, which is, uh, and course and application, which, uh, Robert, uh, has gone through this course. And I have asked him to give his testimony of how he overcame pornography and also what the course, the Victory in Christ course and app, has done for him. And so I'm going to pray us in. Go ahead and say hello, Robert.

Hi everybody.

Awesome, that's perfect. And, uh, yeah, so, uh, let's pray in and then we'll get to— you get to Robert's testimony. So Heavenly Father, um, thank you for this technology that we're using to broadcast, um, the Gospel of Jesus Christ in this man Robert Panetta's life. Father, we're so thankful for the work that you have done in his life and the work that you're continuing to do in his life. And so I pray Lord, that his testimony will be clear and he'll be calm and he'll lean into the Holy Spirit to reveal to all who are watching what God has done for him so that they might know what God may do in their lives to overcome pornography. For it's in Christ's mighty name that I pray. Amen.

Amen.

Awesome. So Robert, before the addiction Who were you?

Um, so who would— I was a person that was in a lie. I was a person that, you know, um, that was trying to play Christianese, I guess. Um, you know, play the side of I'm a Christian, play the side of my father, play the side of my husband, you know, all these different roles I'm trying to put on and I was not living a life of God, you know. I was not doing what I had to do to, to live perfectly. So who I was was a liar, you know, a, a cheat, a, a whoremonger, a, a person that was not living for Christ. That's who I was before I, you know, changed my life around through Victory in Christ, actually.

Awesome. And so tell us about your upbringing, your faith background, and, and, um, sort of how you got into pornography.

Yeah, so, um, my, my dad died when I was 4 years old. My mom raised me and my brother, my younger brother. Um, I had 2 older brothers, half older brothers, and a half older sister. Um, religion-wise, you know, my mom said, you know, we're Christian. Uh, we didn't go to church. Um, you know, I— she said we're Catholics. I believe we were Catholics, you know. Um, did we step in church? Not really, you know. I could maybe count maybe twice on one hand, you know, maybe that we went to church, you know, Catholic Church. Um, yeah. And, um, you know, we— so my upbringing was pretty rocky because I felt like I was going to be the man of the house, you know, because I was the older guy, you know. I was the oldest one, and I'm trying to take care of my, my brother, trying to guide him, you know. Um, my mom was always— and, and don't get me wrong, people, you know, like, I love my mom. My mom's great. Everything she's done for me. She was a struggling woman, you know, single parent. Um, but there were things that she, she shouldn't have brought up to us as younger kids. Um, and I'm not sure, do you want me to go into that, or do you want— okay. Yeah. So, um, so she, she would tell us, you know, having sex, you know, is normal, it's right, you know, that's what men do, that's what, you know, you're going to do, you know, women have breasts and this and this, you know, um, you know, guys have the penis and you use it for this, and, you know, taught us the whole sexual thing, you know, but it wasn't in a, in a way that was formatted that was going to be healthy. Um, it was more like, okay, you're gonna— you're men, so this is what you're gonna do. You know, um, and she, you know, as we got older, you know, she's like, okay, you're gonna need condoms, you know, you're gonna need this or whatever, and she would buy it for us and joke around about it. And, um, you know, she had my older— go ahead, I'm sorry.

Yeah, no, it's okay. I was gonna just gonna ask you, do you think that because your father died that she was trying to be sort of the man of the house or take on the father role and she maybe didn't exactly know how to do that?

Oh, definitely, most definitely. Um, that's one thing we discussed about, um, that broke my chain, that had to come out, but that's gonna be later on discussion, so I won't jump that far ahead. Um, yeah, so she was trying to take the father on role, and, and it was— and I saw it, you know. I mean, now when I'm thinking about it, you know, she was— and I know she was trying to teach me baseball, trying to teach us soccer, all these sports, and she didn't know anything about it, but she was trying, you know. Yeah, um, so yeah, so I mean, and with that, you know, she, she had my older brothers, my half-brothers, you know, coming out the house and they were, you know, doing drugs, you know, people that shouldn't be in the house. Um, so I saw drugs in the house, I saw, um, you know, fornication in the house. Um, I saw a lot of evil things that you shouldn't see as a young kid. You should have been protected by Um, and that's going to be later down, probably in discussion, you know, more.

Yeah, sure. What— how old were you when you were seeing these things?

Oh my gosh, um, I was about maybe 7. I started seeing these things that could really recall age 7, 6 years old.

Yeah, so that's really not something that a 6 or 7-year-old should be witnessing— drug use and, and fornication.

Yeah, right. Yeah, so all this was taking place in the house. And, um, you know, I didn't know— to me, that's the norm, right? I mean, that's what I saw, that's where I lived, that's everything, you know. Um, my mom then started dating another guy, you know, and he came into the picture, um, and he tried to do right by us, you know. And but that didn't work out really well, you know. He didn't know how to raise kids, he didn't know anything about that, you know. Um, I'm not blaming him either, but it's not his job. Um, and he tried telling us the same thing, you know, sex this, sex that, you know. Um, he had pornography, you know, magazines, um, that we would sneak into, or, you know, my brother and I. Um, so yeah, I mean, it was just, you know, sad, you know, to see all this stuff.

Yeah. So how old were you, and was this your first introduction into pornography, finding his magazines?

Um, yeah, well, if you go back, I mean, I— yes, at that age, around 7 years old, 8 years old, I was— we saw the magazines and then, um, my mom telling us it's okay, you know, and, you know, everything else, it's okay to have sex and everything. Um, we did have a next-door neighbor, you know, that we land up, um, messing around with, you know, that at a young age, you know, feeling and everything else. And it was like both mutual, both sides. And we were like, okay, it's okay, you know, this is normal, this is something we do. And it's not normal, you know. It was just— and then I told my mom, she's like— and she laughed about it. I told, you know, my mom's boyfriend and he laughed about it. Oh, that's normal, that's okay, you know, nothing, it's, it's, it's kid stuff, you know, all kids go through that. Okay, fine, you know. But I knew, I felt something inside me, you know, I'm And I'm not a Christian at all, you know, I mean, I'm not saved at all, but I did feel something inside me that's wrong, that was like eating at me, you know, that's like, man, this can't be right, you know. And so that never happened again, um, and I didn't really, I mean, get into— I knew I wanted to have sex, I knew I wanted to mess around and this and that, but I was like, I'm gonna wait till I get married, I'm gonna wait till I get married. And this is not because I'm a Christian, it's just because that's something I wanted to do. Um, no one taught me that, no one said that to me, you know. But I didn't wait, of course. Um, it was sad, but I landed up breaking my virginity, I guess, at age 16, 17. Um, and that's because all the world banging on me, you know, telling about sex, sex, sex, you know. I'm going to a public school, going to, you know, living a secular life. And I was like, okay, I'm done, I'm gonna do it, you know. Um, and it wasn't fulfilling at all. You know, that started my roller coaster ride down a slippery slope. I think that point right there and then really got me addicted to sex and pornography and everything else.

Yeah. And so when you lost your virginity in, in high school, um, were— what was your faith like at this time? Were you basically a practicing atheist who would have called himself maybe a Catholic?

Um, I mean, I believe that there was that. So my mom always said, you know, God's looking out for you. My, my older half-brother was, you know, always reading his Bible, you know, but he was drinking and smoking drugs and doing drugs, you know, taking all types of drug stuff, you know. Um, so do I— did I believe that there's God? Yes, I did. Did I really accept God and know anything about it? No, I did not. So um, you know, you call it as you will, I guess, to anyone that's listening to this, you know. Um, I, I do believe that I wanted to be saved, but I didn't know about salvation. So, you know, I don't know where to put myself in that category. I'm sorry.

Oh yeah, no, yeah, no. So basically, probably an agnostic. You know that there's something, you just don't really know what it was, and, and you didn't have like a practicing faith maybe during this time. Yeah, you believed that there was something, but you just, you didn't have any worship or any, any thought for what God might want for your life.

Exactly correct.

Okay, gotcha. Yep, gotcha. Okay, and so what was, um, what was pornography like during this time, uh, as you're, you know, going from being introduced at a very early age to pornography and then all of a sudden getting into sexual stuff in high school? What was pornography?

Oh man, so, um, You know, you're bringing up things I never thought about before, which is pretty awesome, I guess, you know. Um, you know, we— my brother and I would try and, you know, look at, um, the Sears catalog, um, at the, at the women dressed in, you know, lingerie or whatever. Or we look at whatever we could, you know, and that would be our, our, you know, pornography type thing. And we were adamant about trying to do this, you know. We're like giggling, laughing, you know. Um, and then, um, when I got to the age of, you know, where I could, you know, where I was becoming a man and I was able to masturbate, you know, um, that really took a toll on me at that point. Then I was like, oh wow, okay, this is a relief, you know, this is a different, you know, thing for me now. Now I'm heightened. And we would go, we knew there was a barn next door because our friends, you know, down the street from us, you know,, and, and they had pornography magazines in there. We would sneak into that barn and try and look at these porn mags, you know, um, and I would do that as much as I can, you know, to— but we try to put it back because we didn't want the guy to take it away from us. So, um, it's, it's crazy as a little kid, you know, that you're thinking this is right and it's not right at all. Um, so that was my— it was just progressing, and I felt it progressing. I felt it getting stronger. But again, I had the inkling saying, this is wrong, this is wrong. But I didn't know what was telling me was wrong. I didn't know what the guidance was. My mom and everybody else, like I mentioned to you, saying it's right, it's right, it's okay, you know, right? Um, you know, my friends are watching it, you know. I don't, I don't think I've had— I don't think any of my friends really went to church either, you know, um, thinking about it. Um, so yeah, so I mean, you know, it As I got to maybe like 10 years old, 11 years old, where I was able to, you know, understand masturbation and the sensation and everything else with everything, I think that's when it really trickled down with more than what I wanted, my desires. Um, and then, you know, allowing a young female to come into our house, my mom, um, and she's like, you know, hey, I want you to rub lotion on my breast. You know, she's a teenager and here I am, 10, you know, 11, you And I'm like, wow, you know, I'm scared, you know, I don't know what to do. I'm just like, she's like, you got to do this. And I'm like, okay. And she was, she was attractive and I, I liked her, you know, and but I didn't want to. And but I did it. And, um, that hurt a lot that I did that, you know, that I was scared, you know. Um, and I told my friends and my friends were laughing, you know, like, oh wow, that's awesome, man, she's so pretty, you know. And like hyping me up, but I didn't feel comfortable with it at all. Um, I did tell my mom later on and she was like, okay, well, you know, that, that's okay, you know, you're fine. Um, and never really asked me how I felt, you know. Um, which hurt, you know, it hurt a lot.

But yeah, yeah, crazy, man. Yeah, isn't it nuts? Like, we have this inherent shame for doing things that are against God's will. And even though we, we're far from him, we don't know him, we don't know, we don't even really understand his law, something within us knows it, you know, instinctively. And so you, as a child, not knowing, um, you know, the Lord, you still had the shame that comes from all of these activities that you're engaged in. So it's really interesting. So when did— at what point did you realize that this wasn't just a bad habit, but this thing is controlling you?

Oh man, um, you know, I— when I didn't think of anything until I actually— well, joined— so let me back up a little bit, you know. I, I go, I go in, um, you know, I grow up, you know, I graduate high school, I go in the military, the Marine Corps. Um, and of course the Marine Corps is what's teaching me how to be a man, you know, because I didn't know what it is to be a man. Um, you know, and it's— and I'm going infantry, so infantry is really, really vulgar at this point, you know. It's, you know, you work hard, you play hard, you know, you have— you're getting as many women as you can, you know. And this is prideful, this is everything that you want to be as a Marine, you know. You're, you're, you know, you're combat, you're this, you know, you're gonna do everything you can. Um, and my friends were happy with that, you know. They're like, yeah, this is what we do. And I was doing that, and then I settled down, and I knew that I wanted to settle down and I wanted to get married. And I met this female, which was totally wrong, you know. I thought it was love, but it was lust. Um, I met her at a club and we started dating and we got married, you know. We had a kid. Um, I didn't think anything of my, my stronghold that this, you know, me wanting to change, this big grasp of me, um, I was still flirting with other women, you know. I was still talking to other women, uh, while I was married. Um, not happy about that, you know. I'm totally devastated about that. Um, I was doing all the wrong things, you know, and not— and she was going— well, she was pregnant, you know, and after pregnancy, she was going through, I guess, postpartum, you know, depression. Um, And I didn't understand anything of it, you know. I don't know, like, why are you this way? You know, suck it up, let's move on, you know what I mean? You have a kid, be happy, let's do this, you know. I didn't take her feelings or her emotions or any of that into consideration, really. I didn't know about it, um, you know. I didn't know how to comfort a wife. I didn't know any of that stuff. It was just, you know, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and that's it, you know. Let's just move on, uh, it's about the kid, you know. Um, so then I get out of the Marine Corps. I had a break in service, you know, we moved, moved back to Maryland. And, um, you know, because I was stationed in Hawaii when I met her. And, um, we, um, this whole entire time married with her though, you know, my father-in-law at that time was a Christian, you know, he's saved, you know, and, and she's supposedly saved. Um, and he was like, you know, you got to get saved, you got to get saved. Like, luck, man. I'm a Catholic, you know, and I've been to Catholic churches, you know. I didn't really go all the time, you know, but I went, you know, sometimes. So I consider myself a Catholic, you know. I'm a Catholic. I'm doing right, you know. I was baptized Catholic. I'm a Catholic. That's it, you know. I said, please don't talk to me about salvation. Don't talk about that stuff. But what's funny though, and I could say this is really funny, is that when I was on deployment you know, when I was in Hawaii, you know, you get Liberty and everything else, and there's people street preaching about Christ in Honolulu, Hawaii. And I'm like, wow, you know, this is pretty interesting. We're just laughing at them, you know. Um, that's not the funny part. So please. So we go deployment to Japan, and that same guy that was in Honolulu, Hawaii is there. We called it Kenville. It's Kenville. We used to call it Sinville because right out the gates were the buy me drinky bars, they were the prostitution bars, they were the, you know, the nightclubs, you name it, all there right out the gate. So it's called Sinville, we used to call it. Yeah, instead of Kenville. And you go there partying or whatever. Um, so anyway, they're right there outside that area, you know, street preaching, and he's trying to tell about the Lord. Like, look, man, you know, I appreciate it. And I'm not being rude, you know, I'm like, I appreciate— I'm a Catholic. Thank you, but no thank you. He said, okay, well, take this Chick tract, you know, read it one day, you know. I took it and I threw it away, you know, whatever. Come back to Hawaii, he's there in Hawaii street preaching again. I get deployed again to Japan, again, second time, and he's there again and he's street preaching to me and he's talking to me again. I'm like, man, what is up with this, you know? I didn't think anything of this. Well, Fast forward, you know, my father was telling about Jesus and I don't think— look, I don't want to hear it. So we, um, we're leaving, you know, that area and he tells his pastor about me, you know, that, you know, hey, he needs prayer, they really need prayer, they're a young couple, you know, he needs to get saved. And the pastor in Laurel, Maryland was supporting that missionary over there in Hawaii that was his preacher, his pastor. Wow. And they called him and said, hey, there's a guy that's living in Laurel, Maryland, where you're at, you know, that, you know, can you please preach to him, tell him about salvation of Christ, please? And, um, the guy comes knocking on my door January 24th, 1998. I remember the day exactly. And he's like, hey man, you know, um Pastor so-and-so in Hawaii, your father-in-law told me to come down. Can I tell you about, you know, the love of Jesus? Can I tell you about him, the salvation? I was like, look, man, I'm not gonna be rude to you, you're a pastor, but I'm a Catholic. I'll listen to you, but please leave after that, okay? You know, I don't want to hear it. So he tells me about it, and he said, but one thing I want to tell you about first, hold all your questions to the end. I said, I got you, I could do that for you. I could follow rules, I could follow that. I'm a Marine, you know, whatever. Um, so he goes through the whole plan of salvation, and I'm like, wow. And I get saved that day.

Wow.

That's the day I get saved. And it's a full circle, man, you know. If it wasn't because I married her and this and that, you know.

Yeah.

And all— it's just crazy how it worked, you know. Just such how God works in that mysterious way. So that's when I started realizing, I think, where the stronghold of my sexual addiction, you know.

Um, yeah, can I ask you really quick, like, go ahead, please, please. I'm sorry, it's okay. Do you remember what it was that he said that sort of like was the spark that, um, made you want to accept Jesus?

You know, the way he put it was, you know, that I— he was telling about, you know, Snare, like, you know, if you, if you want a pizza, and if you want a pizza and you don't— and, and, and you really want that pizza and you're dying for the extra cheese pepperoni pizza, whatever you like on it, and you're dying for it, and you sit there and you wait What happens? Do you get the pizza? Like, no. He said, exactly. But if you pick up a phone and you call and you dial Domino's or whatever it is, Papa John's, whatever, and you ask for that pizza, do you get the pizza then? I said, yes. He's like, same thing with Christ. You got to pick up the phone, you gotta talk to him, you gotta accept him, you gotta live for him, and that is where you're going to get Jesus Christ, you know. Um, and that's what actually triggered into me a pepperoni pizza discussion. Go figure that, right? Of course. Yeah, right, exactly. Awesome.

So he encouraged you in his words that, right, faith that you had, it was very passive and you needed a more active faith, and it just hit you that day?

Yes, exactly. That's all it was.

That's so cool, you know.

And I do believe that God was working every step of the way for this, you know. So, you know, by just planting seeds everywhere I went, you know.

Sure.

Um, yeah, it's crazy.

That's really awesome. So now you've got this new faith, you, you have the Holy Spirit now who is convicting you of your sin, right? And right, this is when you start realizing, oh my gosh, all this stuff that I've been doing is, is wrong.

Right, so I get this new faith and I'm on fire for the Lord. I want to go, you know, tell people about the Lord. I want to preach to them. And but yet I'm still looking at pornography. I'm still doing other things, you know what I mean? I'm like, okay, God can forgive me. God, please forgive me. My marriage will— and I'm being beat down at this point because my marriage is going downhill fast. Um, my wife, she then started saying, you know, I want to go party, I want to go do this, you know. We have a— this time he's 1 years old, you know, and, and, you know, 1-year-old kid. And I'm like, look, we're not meant for that, you know. And we're struggling to pay the bills, you know. I had break in service, you know, I'm not in the military anymore. I'm working 2 jobs trying to, you know, fight for us to stay in apartment. Um, and she's like, no, I'm— I don't want that, you know. I want to go party. This is my thing, you know. I'm like, well, that's not who I am anymore. I'm a Christian, you know, that's not what we're supposed to do. So I'm trying to play this other role now and— but hold on to my marriage. And I'm asking guidance, I'm asking all this stuff, and we're not really having sex, you know, we're not doing anything, we're not being intimate really anymore. Um, so pornography was, you know, I didn't talk to my pastor about that, you know, but because I thought, hey, we're not I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm not sleeping around. I'm not doing any other thing I used to do. So no harm, no foul type thing, right?

Right.

Because I don't know, I'm not talking to my pastor about that. Well, I'm gonna talk to a pastor about my sexual addiction, you know, or I didn't know it was an addiction at this point, honestly.

Yeah. Um, were you in the word, like reading scripture?

I was reading scripture. I was feeling con— I was feeling convicted a little bit, you know, but, you know, I, I kept on telling myself, and that's the devil speaking at that point, you know, saying it's okay, it's okay to masturbate because you're not cheating on her, it's okay to look at pornography because you're not touching another woman, it's okay to do all— so I was saying all the stuff the devil wants me to say that I know is wrong now, right, you know. So yeah, that's, that's where I was at, brother, you know. So gotcha. That was rough. Cool. Cool.

So what were the lies that you were believing during this time?

Um, the lies that I was being a good man because I wasn't cheating, cheating, um, quote unquote cheating, you know. Um, I— the lies was that, you know, I was— I, I was hurt still by my dad's death. I was hurt, and I'm still hurt a little bit about that, you know me. I, I desire to know what it is to be hugged by a dad, you know. But I have Almighty God that hugs me every day, you know. Um, a lie that I'm not good enough to be a husband, a lie that I'm not good enough to be, you know, a church-going person, you know, a Christian. A lie that, you know, that I'm not good enough to be a father to my son that, you know, is going to look up to me. I had all these things going in my head, you know. Um, that I can't support my family because I'm working two jobs. Um, you know, it was, it was a beatdown, man. It was, it was a total mental beatdown on me because I even tried getting food stamps to help my family and they said no, you earn too much money, you know, from being in the military. I was like, I'm not in the military now, uh, you know, I said I don't want it forever, I just need help. And, um, you know, it was just just a beatdown mentally, you know. Um, I didn't share any of that stuff with, with my pastor, my church, because I'm still in the mentality of a Marine that, you know, a Marine takes care of himself, a Marine does everything for himself, and this is what you do as a Marine. You're a man, you know, you suck it up and you drive on.

Sure.

So this is the lie I'm listening to also, you know, the lie of being a Marine, right? Right, exactly. Um, you know, I love the Corps. It taught me a lot. It taught me how to be a, you know, a strong man, you know, how to defend myself and everything else. But it does brainwash us in a sense. Um, it brainwashes us not to rely on help, not to rely on people that can help us, you know, not to seek the guidance that we should seek. Um, it is a lot of that, you know. When you're in pain, you know, you suck it up, you know. No, go to the hospital. Um, and I wasn't going to the right hospital, which is Jesus Christ, you know. I was I was saved and I want to do right. I was going to church every Sunday, every Wednesday. I was doing everything I could do, but I wasn't fully into it, I don't think, you know what I mean? I was, but I wasn't, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it does.

Because I still had this other lie in me, you know?

Right.

Um, so when my wife left, you know, and I prayed on it and everything else, and I sought guidance from my pastor and elders in the church, and they said that's on her to leave, you know, as long as you want to keep going and I did want to keep my marriage. Um, so fast forward, she left and I was being a whoremonger, man. I was sleeping around with every woman I could sleep around with, you know, everything I could do, you know, looking at more porn sites, looking around at everything I can, you know, just being crazy, man. I would drive all the way to New York City and meet this one girl, you know, 4 hours away just to meet a girl to sleep with, you know. I flew to Georgia to sleep with this other female that I knew, you know. I was like, why am I doing this? I'm a Christian, I shouldn't be doing this. Um, and I was feeling really convicted about it, but I guess not enough, you know. Um, and when I met my new wife and we got married, um, I was still playing Christianese, I want to say, you know. I was still playing the other side because I was still looking at porn. I was, I was cheating on her, I was sexting, I was, you know, it just snowballed to something bigger, you know, than what I wanted. It started with a little bit of porn, gradually went from porn to more masturbation. And I could say I was masturbating at least 3, 4 times a day, man, you know, just to— because all the anger I had inside me, all the, all the You name it, I had everything inside me, you know what I mean? Anger issues to mental issues to, you know, not feeling like adequate as a man, you know, whatever it may be. Um, feeling resentment, feeling loneliness, feeling like I was gonna be left alone. That was a big thing that, um, Victory in Christ taught me, you know. And you were my, you know, the host, the mediator of it. Um, and you pinpointed that down for me too, you know, which I thank God that you created Victory in Christ, man, honestly. Um, because it let me see a lot of things that, that I didn't know about myself, you know, that I didn't realize that I could change. Um, so I cheated on my wife not once, not twice, but 3 times. And this last time— and I'm probably going too fast, so please, if I am, let me know.

We can always go back. Yeah.

Okay. Um, so, you know, this last time is what really did it for You know, I, I, every time I cheated and every time I got caught, you know, I was saying, okay God, I'm gonna change, I'm gonna change, I'm gonna really change, you know. And I'm, and I'm playing this, you know, God, you know, I want to change. But I didn't want to change. I didn't know how to change because everything inside was just building up, man. It was like a big ball of, uh, at me, you know. I mean, I don't know how to put it, you know. It's like overwhelming of just everything, you know. I just I couldn't deal with it. I didn't know how to deal with it. So, um, so I went to, you know, pornography. Like I said, it just snowballed to something bigger. And this last time was in October. I got caught, and I was praying to God, please God, let this end. Please God, do whatever you can to let this end. I don't want this anymore. I don't know how to get out of this. I don't know how to do this anymore. I, um, you know, there was a time where I had a gun to my mouth, you know, where I didn't want to be in the sick realm anymore, man. I didn't want to, to deal with, um, being sexually addicted like this, you know. Um, I hated everything about me about that. Like, I would ask myself, why am I doing these things? Why am I hurting my wife? Why am I— why can't I get out of this, you know? God, you said you're there for me. You said you will never give me more than I can handle. God, and I was yelling at God, you know, I was telling God, you said you'd take me out there, why aren't you taking me out of this? What is it? What do I need to do? I tried, you know, I tried strangling myself, you know, hanging myself, and I couldn't do it because it would hurt too much. I mean, I, I— and the only reason why I didn't pull the trigger is because my wife and my mom came into the bedroom and they stopped me, and I don't want them to see that, you know. It'd been easier if they weren't walking in, you know, they weren't in there. I could have done it, you know, but they walked in and, man, when you— forgive me, I'm sorry.

That's okay, man. It's okay, brother. This is, um, this is what happens when we tell our testimony.

So yeah, so, um, when they walked in and I, I put the gun down, I got rid of the weapons in my house. I didn't trust myself at that point. So, and I still don't have a weapon in my house, you know. I may have knives, whatever, but I don't have any actual weapons like that, you know. Um, my friends have weapons, so if I want to go to gun range, I'll go to gun range with their weapons, you know. I sold everything I had because I didn't trust myself at that point. Um, and my wife doesn't want that because she— what she's witnessed, you know, in the house, which I'm okay with.

Sure.

So anyway, um, this last time in October, I, I pleaded with God, you know. I said, God, my wife found out. She, she had divorce papers right away. She's like, I'm done with you. You could stay in the house, we could share the house, we're done. Nothing anymore. I can't believe you, Robert. I can't believe you did this again. We are automatically done. And I said, wow. I dropped to my knees and I begged God to please just be there for me. Please save my marriage. Um, I asked God into my heart again. I said, God, I'm gonna ask you in my heart this time, and I'm gonna really, really mean this, you know, here, because I'm down low right now and I have nowhere to go. And I really asked, you know, I rededicated my life. I said, God, if you just change me right here, you help me right here and show me, I will do everything I can to serve you. Then I was— I went to a counselor, you know, I was trying to find counselors and everything, you know. And, um, I went to one counselor and he said, oh— I said, look, I want some medication, give me some medication for my head. Because apparently I'm not understanding why I'm doing these things. I need to— I'm highly sexually active. I, I want to masturbate 3 to 4 times a day. This is not normal for a guy. This is not normal for me to look at pornography. Not normal for me to cheat on my wife. And I was going through the whole thing. He's like, well, you can't do this, you know. You should just, you know, masturbate once or twice, you know. Give me all this secular stuff. I don't want to hear your secular stuff. This is not what God wants from me. I said, I asked for a Christian counselor. You're not telling me Christian stuff. So give me the medication I need. Just prescribe it for me, and we'll keep on doing what you need to do to see me to give me the medication. Well, he gave me the medication. Well, you prescribed it. I never picked it up, um, because I told, I told my pastor about what happened, you know. I cried. I bawled in front of, you know, And Chris Agar, he assigned me to Chris Agar, you know, and Chris Agar told me about Victory in Christ, that there's a new thing coming up and I should join it right away. And I say, oh man, what kind of gimmick is this stuff, you know? I said, I just need help, I need something, you know. He said, brother, trust me, you're going— you just go through this and we'll be fine, you know. We'll walk through it together. I'll be here for you. You call me anytime. And that's what I really needed, someone I could call, someone I could count on. Um, my pastor showed me that love I needed, you know. He didn't beat me down. He didn't throw me out the church. He didn't say I got to confess to everybody. He gave me the biggest, strongest hug, like Christ-like, you know. And he said, everything's gonna be okay. And, um, and I knew that it was gonna be okay. And I, as I was going through Victory in Christ with you and a bunch of gentlemen, it showed me all the strongholds and all the hurt I've been holding on to and all the anger and all the stuff that I've had in my body, you know, that I had to give up all these things. Everything that offended me, give it up, you know. Every woman that slept with, pray on it and ask forgiveness. Everything, you know, it showed me every step of the way how to change my life. It told me about my mind. That was a big trigger for me, I think, that changed my life. Because I always— I think I said, what is wrong with my mind? Why am I doing these things that, that other guys don't do? Why has my wife said that I'm not normal, you know, that I'm doing these wrong things? She didn't believe I was a Christian, you know. Um, I knew it was a Christian, but I was doing the wrong things. So You know, when, when I learned about dopamine, I learned about, you know, the frontal cortex through your, you know, through your Victory in Christ, the thing you put together, is like, wow, it was a big eye-opener for me. That changed me right there. That made me understand everything, you know, that, that my receptors were skewed off because of dopamine. I needed that dopamine hit like a, like a drug, you you know, I needed that. Um, and if it wasn't because of that, I would have never known, you know what I mean? I would have never understood any of this stuff. So, and I think I would have kept on going down the downward spiral if I didn't understand all that. Um, so God played everything and every job, every, every way of my life to lead me to the point where I needed to be broken, honestly, like really, really broken, for me to rededicate my life to come to him. And to start doing research and to show my, you know, start journaling. And I left on the table, I said, if any of my kids, if any of you want to see this, I came clean with everybody, you know. I said, this is what I did, this is where I'm at, I'm broken, I'm going to be honest with you, your mom and I, we're probably gonna end up breaking up, I don't want it, I'm going to keep on fighting for her. And I did fight for her, you know, and we're together still to this day, you know. And I praise God for that. We've done, I mean I've done a dramatic change on it. I haven't— since October, man, I haven't masturbated. I haven't looked at pornography. I haven't, uh, you know, I've kept every, every thought, you know. I'm, I'm keeping every thought. I'm grabbing hold of it. I'm not letting— you know, I'm not letting it take over me. I'm praying every day. I'm seeking God, you know, and I put him first when I wake up. And I ask God also to Don't let my wife be my happiness. Don't let my kids be my happiness. Don't let my, my whatever I have be my happiness. You be my happiness. You be my peace. You be my joy. And no matter where I'm at in life, you be that what I need, because everything will come and go, but you won't, God. So, and that changed me. Um, so I thank you for building this, you know, this app that you have now and teaching the class and being so strong for this, you know, and loving it. Because I am that way now too for this, because I want to help guys out. Um, yeah, so that's where I'm at.

Yeah, free people, free people, man. That's what they do.

Yeah, exactly.

That's awesome, man. Yeah, I'm really glad that God, uh, put me in your path at just the right time. Uh, and you know, I, I can attest that he has done an amazing work in your life. It's obvious. Um, I think, um, probably one of the largest components of this was the secrecy that you were keeping. And the thing that sort of changed was, of course, rededicating your life to the Lord, but also live— living an open lifestyle where everything that you're doing, you are confessing immediately, you know. Because the same thing happened to me with my disclosure where You know, before I was just keeping a secret, and I wanted the Lord to take it away while I was keeping a secret. And what I didn't understand is that is not wearing the belt of truth. We are called to put on the full armor of God, and the first component of that armor is truth. And so if we're keeping secrets, if we're living lies, then that belt of truth is not on. And as, you know, we learn in the Victory in Christ course, The belt is what held the Roman armor together. And so if you don't have the belt, the rest of the armor basically can't stay on your body and you're defenseless. And so when you're telling your testimony, this is what I'm hearing. I'm hearing this amazing thing that God did to, um, to force your wife to, uh, understand your secret life so that it can come into the light and you can stay in the light.

Right, right.

Yeah, so talk about that. Like, what your wife— like, um, you know, don't talk too much about her, like, don't give up too many details, right? Um, you know, what's her faith journey like? Like, what is, um, you know, is she just going to church with you? And like, what— tell me about her.

Yeah, so, um, my wife grew up in a Christian home. Um, you know, her dad's Christian, her mom was Christian, you know. Um, they went to church faithfully, um, you know. And when I met her, I met her in college, um, because I was going to college trying to get, you know, my degree and everything, you know, trying to be a better man, you know. Um, and she despised me in college. She did not like me at all because I was always asking all these questions like, well, you know, what about this, or what about that, you know. I've always had the question. I was like that guy, you know. Um, and so we, we land up, you know, talking about Christ and everything, and we based our relationship on Christ. And she knew I had my son and I have full custody of my son, and she decided to, you know, take my son under, you know, like her own kid, you know, which I loved. Um, so she would always go to church with me, you know, we went to church every Sunday, every Wednesday. Um, she loves the Lord, you know, no doubt about it, to stick with me, um, to follow Christ, you know. Um, the first time she caught me cheating, she said, I'm sticking with you because of Christ and because of the kids, you know. Um, which was tremendous, you know. The second time, it hurt her, you know, it devastated her even more. And she's like, to this day, I don't know why she stayed with me, honestly. I mean, I don't know. But it's God. It's just God. Um, and I, and I thank God for that, you know. Um, this last time, she— I felt the devastation in her more than any other time. I felt that hurt, that, that callousness came over her, and I felt the callousness of her because she's like, why, God, would you put me in this situation? Why? And she even said that to me. Why would God put me here? Why would God give me you that's cheating on me? Why would God, you know? And she started thinking like, what am I doing, you know? If I'm following God and he's doing this to me, why, why am I doing it?

So she was having a crisis of faith because of what she was going through?

She was, yes, tremendously, you know. And I knew that was going to affect my kids too, um, and But when she saw me doing everything I had to do, she said, you can sleep on the couch, you can see whatever. And I took that, you know, that's my tent, you know, that was my tent, you know, where I was going to be on the couch, you know, wherever she wanted me to be, I'll be there. But I was not going to leave my house, um, I was gonna fight, you know, to— I get thrown out or, you know, whatever may be. And she was still hardened, you know, and I had to pray for her heart. I was just praying for her heart. You know, I think, God, just heal her heart, let her be happy, let her just go through her life. And I think when she saw me going through classes and she saw— she read the homework site I was doing, you know, um, yeah, because it was open, you know. I like— I would go to the camper, you know, because we have a camper. I would go to camper to be away from the kids because I want them hearing stuff, you know, that they shouldn't be hearing. Yeah, because we're with other men, you know, and I want them hearing that stuff. So, um, you know, but I left my homework on the camper table and my daughter read some of this stuff, you know. And I was like, I'm gonna be open, you know, I'm not gonna hide it, you know, this is who I am. And my daughter started crying and she went to my wife and she's like, I didn't know this about Dad, I didn't know that about Dad, I didn't know, you know. And she's like, yeah, this is your dad, you know, this is everything he was fighting, you know, everything that he has in him. You know, these are all his demons coming out, you know. Um, so don't hate him for this, you know. Don't hate him for— and that's when the callousness started fading away, I think. Hmm. So with that, you know, and she started, you know, when she started seeing me do more and, and just be happy being on the couch, being happy being where I'm at, you know, I was happy everywhere. And I told her, I said, honey, look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna prepare the documents, the divorce papers for you. I'm gonna leave them in the safe, in the fire safe. You sign them when you're ready to, because I'm happy either way. God has me. I'm gonna keep fighting for you. I'm never gonna get remarried. And she was like taken aback. Her face was dropped, you know, when she heard that, you know. I was like, here's the divorce papers, but I'm fighting for you to the day I die. And that's the truth. That's my promise to God. Between you, me, and God, that's all my promise. And she was like, we'll see how it goes, we'll see. And I was just doing everything you told me, like in the class, you know, do stuff for your wife, you know, love your wife, just follow these steps, you know. Um, and that's what broke her heart, I think, you know. That's what changed her, you know, seeing the openness, openness of me to that. Um, seeing victory in Christ working in me, that changed her and that made her want to stay with me. And but we were still going to church, you know. She said, we go to church together, it's our church, it's our home, you know, church. And we could still go, we still have to raise the kids together. And so we're doing everything together like that, um, and nothing changed that way. And that's just God, they're working there again. You know, we're able to go and sit in the same pew, same area, you know, and all that. So yeah, it was pretty cool.

Absolutely. I think a lot of the reasons why men keep, um, a secret from their wife is because they're afraid that they're going to hurt them by what they tell them. Um, and so there's a, there's a sense of trying to protect them from your behavior, right? Right. Um, but What, what, um, I've learned is that women, um, they care more about your integrity than they do about your behavior. They are way more interested— they know that you're going to fail. You're human like everybody else. They know you're going to make mistakes. It's not the mistakes, it's the fact that you're lying about the mistakes, right? They can, they can stay with the person who makes mistakes. They cannot stay with a person that doesn't have integrity. It's, it's built into their DNA. They, they require safety and security, and that makes them feel unsafe and insecure. And the other thing is, you know, a lot of times we as men think that we're keeping things from them, but really they know something's up. They're very intuitive. They know something's wrong. They just don't know what the facts are, and it takes the disclosure or them finding out, in your case, what you were doing in order for them to know what the facts are. And then it, it validates the feelings that they were having before, that of how they were feeling insecure. And so really, it is the disclosure of the, the, the sin, of the pornography addiction or the cheating or whatever, the sexual immorality. It is the disclosure that is the, the predicate that will lead to healing. Without it, there can never be healing. You cannot just keep this a secret and hope it's going to be okay, because once again, it's— God will only bless that which is in the truth. He is not going to bless things that are in secrets. He's not going to bless things that's sexually immoral. It's not going to happen. He loves you and he loves your wife way too much to leave you in that situation. And so in both of our cases, brother, he forced a disclosure. With me, my disclosure, it was voluntary. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do, but I knew with every fiber of my being that the Holy Spirit was asking me to do it. In your case, your wife found out and that's when the disclosure happened, you know, right? But in both cases, as, as people watching, I hope what you see here in both of our testimonies is that disclosure is the key to getting free and having victory. You have to disclose to your wife what you're doing. And a lot of times, if you don't do it, God will do it for you.

Yeah, definitely.

Absolutely. The other thing is, um, you know, the, the, the thing that happens to our wives when we betray them, you know, we, we vowed on the altar that we would you know, never forsake them. And that's what we did, you know, with our sin. We forsook them. Um, for them to forgive us, stay with us, right, and work on the marriage with us is absolutely incredible. The only thing that you can compare something like that to, that level of grace and forgiveness, is what Jesus did for us on the cross, right? There is that— there's— now, it's not the same. What Jesus did is much higher, but what your wife did for you to forgive you is, is one of the most Christlike things that any human has ever done for you, brother.

You just— you nailed it right there, man. I mean, that is the most humbling thing I've ever felt, you know, for my wife to say I'm going to accept you, and I'm going to take you back, and I'm going to love you, and I'm not going to ridicule you. You know, that showed me the love of Christ. That solidified everything. You know, it's like, how can I want to hurt my wife now? You know, how could I want to do this? You know, forget everything else, she's showing me the love of Christ right there. You know, I just, I can't put into words how grateful I am, you know. Um, I can never— and I don't— I know I don't have to say thank you to her, you know, and I do, you know, say thank you for sticking with me, thank you, you know, do tell her that, but I know I don't have to. But it's like, it's like, wow, man, you know, who am I to be loved like this? Who am I to be, you know, granted this grace like this, you know? But she did, and I love it, and I, and I vow, you know, with Lord's will, that I'll keep on bringing the good faith, you know, that I'm doing.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, one of the, the sessions in Victory in Christ, it talks about, you know, um, partnering with your wife to stay free, you know, right? There are certain things that we shouldn't partner with our wife, right? Accountability should happen with your brothers in Christ, right? But you— there are certainly things that you can do, like, as a— for instance, just to get your brain going, um, so my wife and I, we have a 24-hour role. So if I misbehave, if I, if I have a relapse, I have to tell her within 24 hours. If I don't tell her within 24 hours, there are consequences for that. Okay. And so the thing that helped— that helps me in ways that you can't even possibly imagine— when I'm on the verge of having a relapse and I'm thinking, in about 24 hours from now, I'm going to have to tell my wife just what I did, right? There's a level of accountability that you receive from that, that is, um, invaluable to your recovery, you know. Now, um, also having, um, you know, like accountability software in place is also very helpful, and having men that you can call to walk you off the ledge when, um, when you're on the verge of relapse is also helpful as well. So what are some of the things that you've been doing like that brother, since, um, you, you know, your disclosure to, to Stay Free, right?

So I have a, a few guys I call, you know, at any given moment. I not call any one of them, they're gonna pick up the phone, whatever time of day, you know, whatever time of night, you know, whatever it is, they're going to pick up for me. So that's number one, have accountability partners, you know. Um, they'll check on me every day, they'll, they'll text me, whatever it may be. And I do the same thing for them. Um, I'm doing that. I have software on my laptop, my phone, everything else, um, that triggers, you know, lets people know, hey, you know, there's something going on here you might want to take a look at. You know, they'll call me. Um, I'm doing that. I'm also, you know, and I believe this with all my heart, brother, you know, the main important thing for me, for my, for my recovery is First thing I do wake up is pray to God. Is— and, and maybe it's different for all men, it's different for everybody, but I go through the whole entire armor from my head all the way down to my toes. Give me the helmet, give me, you know, this, give me that, you know. And I'm like, please Lord, make me a warrior for you. Don't let me ever take off my, my, you know, guard. Don't let me put down my guard. Don't let me take off this stuff I have to be a warrior for you. And it takes me about maybe 30, 40 minutes to say these prayers, you know, and I do it every day. But that's something I need to do, you know. That's my first battleground. That's my first step. Because if I don't prepare my ways, then everything is going to fall apart on me. And I know this, and I, I've seen it. So I don't want that, and I'll ever live like that. So if it takes me 30, 40 minutes, hey, so what, you know, it's 30, 40 minutes. So that's, that's, that's my first thing. Um, and then, um, I go through my notes that, you know, from Victory in Christ. I go through my notes, I go through stuff that I've written, you know, before. I go through my— I have journaling, I have the Victory in Christ app that I go to that teaches, you know, that says, okay, how are you feeling? Are you recovery mode? Are you about to relapse? Are you about to do this? And it walks you through every step of the way. Um, and I love it. And also, you know, as we mentioned before we started this, you know, conversation here, um, we— it also lets you know that, you know, you can put it on the calendar, you know, say, hey, remind me to do this by this time, you know. Um, it does have alert on there, um, feature. Um, I love the journaling in there that you can do, um, so you can go back and read it. Um, it has a Stronghold Busters, which I've started using, um, you know, for anger issues that I have.

Um, you know, yeah, can we talk about that a little bit? So, yeah, so, um, so one of the, the teachings, uh, in Victory in Christ is that we have all of these, um, lies that we believe, that we start believing throughout our lives because of, you know, traumatic or, you know, difficult things that we've gone through in our life. And, um, emotions are sort of the outward projection of the lies that we are leaving. And so the emotion is not the sin. The sin is what we do with the emotion, right?

Right.

And so we call, we call these strongholds of lies of the enemy. And this is what Paul talks about in Corinthians when he talks about taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, because, uh, we do not wrestle against flesh and bread. They're carnal. And we, we throw down every, uh, every, um thing that sets itself against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obedient to Christ. This is all happening in the mind, right? And so the spiritual warfare. And so one of the lies, uh, what is the lie that is at the root of your anger, do you suppose?

That I have to be in control. I don't have to be in control. I don't need to be in control. I have to be in control.

Right.

That is the biggest lie that I, I have in me, you know.

Yes. And so, so, so walking this out, right? So someone who believes that they have to be in control, what happens when they feel out of control?

They get angry, right?

Right. And so the stronghold of lies is that you have to manipulate things, that you have to be who's strong. You have to be the one that, that, uh, has to be in control in order for things to go the way that they're supposed to go, right?

Right, exactly.

Okay. And then that, that manifests itself as anger, right? So, right, you're, you're, you know, you want a healthy, happy family, right? And then something happens and it makes you think, oh my gosh, I might not have a happy, healthy family. And then the anger comes out, right?

Exactly. Yeah, right. You know, like my kids, you know, my girls or my boys, you know, it's like, I mean, they might do something, I might, and I start yelling at them because they're not doing it right, or what I perceive is right, you know. Um, it's not my way, you know, and that is not the way to be, you know. Where's the love of Christ in this, you know? Where am I, you know? Why am I not humbling myself? Why am I being so rude to them because that's going to push them away. I don't want to push them. I want to bring them closer to God, right? And if I could be nice to a co-worker and I could put this, you know, niceness in, why can't I do that with my family, right? You know, it makes no sense.

Sure. And really, you know, like I say this all the time, what, what really is going on is the— this is a pride issue. You believe that, that you have the power to make your life go the way it's supposed to go. That is a prideful issue. The truth in reality is that the Lord God is the only person who is in control.

Okay, right.

And so, yeah, and so when the anger comes out, you're sinning, right, against the people that you are— you're venting your anger towards. And ultimately what it depends on is that you are not putting your full trust in God. A person who puts their full trust in God will not get angry when things don't go their way. They will say, God, I know it's going this way, it's not the way I would have done it, but I trust you.

Right, right, exactly. That's where I'm— that's where I'm getting to, bro.

And I want you to know, like, this is— most people have control issues, right, right? We, we are, especially in the West, you know, we are, we are, um, we are groomed from children to be self-reliant. It's all on me, I gotta do this, right?

Right.

And, and so it takes a lot, it takes a lot of, um, faith in the Lord to trust that, to give up, to cede that control to him and say, Lord, whatever's happening, I know it's part of your plan and purpose, and so I can trust you, you know?

Right.

So yeah, okay, so Um, the stronghold declaration, um, is a means, right, to, um, to renounce the lie that we are believing and then announce the truth according to the word of God, right? And so you don't have to give me your stronghold declaration right now, but, um, tell me, like, how long have you been— you, you have been doing a stronghold declaration of anger recently, and has the Lord shown you anything while you've been Working on that strong home, um, yeah, he has shown me a lot, man.

He, he's actually, you know, helped me out. And, and I've been attacked a lot, you know, it's like, you know, the, the devil knows where he could seep in, you know. He's not going to get me, you know. He tried with pornography, he tried with my eyes, you know, he tried, you know, have me look at women, and now I don't want want to, you know, like, nope, I'm gonna avert my eyes. Nope, I got, you know, and it's a fight, you know, but that's something that I know what I have to battle. So he's okay, how else can I do it? So he started with my family, um, he started with, you know, my relationship with my father-in-law, mother-in-law, you know, um, you know, and my wife getting upset with them, you know. And so I was starting to feel outraged, I started feeling the anger, but I was like, nope, I'm not going to do this. Nope. And I, and I finally called everybody. I said, look, we're all going to meet, we're all going to talk, we're all Christians, let's show the love of Christ. And I was like, okay, you know, here it is. And I started feeling myself when we were in the meeting, I started feeling this anger. And I said, you know what, guys, I got to get up, I got to walk out, and I got to come back because I'm starting to feel this anger I shouldn't be feeling inside. And they start attacking me like my father-in-law, mother-in-law started attacking me. Why would you want to walk out? This and that. Like, so I had to pray internally, you know, God, let this demon, you know, go away, whatever's happening here. And I started feeling, you know, the love of Christ, you know. Wow. And that started changing my demeanor inside me, and I started showing them the love, you know. I started saying, well, you know what, it's okay to feel this way. You know what, you know, we're family and we're gonna argue, you know. And I started showing everything I can, you know. And I— it was just a big change in me. And my kids and my wife, you know, it's like, wow, Dad, I've never seen you like this before. I've never seen you step back and just take control of your anger. You used to blow up. I'm like, I've never seen either.

That's amazing.

Um, so, you know, my kids are starting to see it, you know. My oldest boy that doesn't live with me has seen it, you know. He's like, Dad, this is not you. What's happened? I said, God. God's what's happened, you know.

Um, yeah.

And I said, you know, I don't want to be that, that Bible-thumper, you know, person that you don't like, but this is my life now. This is who I am. God is going to be first in everything I do. And if you don't like that on me, you know, I'm sorry, but You know, there's two doors, you know, the door goes in and out. So I love you, I want you to be here, but this is who I am. And he's like, no, thank you. So yeah, that's a tremendous blessing, man.

That's amazing. So what you are describing, this incident, it reminds me of Galatians 5, right? And we talk about this in Victory in Christ as well, where Paul in Galatians 5 talks about the, the fruit of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit. And what he's, what he's trying to get, um, them to believe here in, in these passages, the Galatians to believe, is that when in this moment, right, you could have succumbed to your flesh, right, and you would have gotten a harvest of flesh, right? If you sow seeds of flesh, you're going to get flesh back, right? But even though they were lobbying the flesh at you right? You were choosing the spirit instead of your flesh. And when you did that, it actually de-escalated the situation, right?

Yeah.

And kept you calm and kept you from getting angry. So what the devil wanted in that moment was for you to react, for you to get angry, for him to manipulate your emotional buttons so that you would, you would say things that you wouldn't— that, that you would want to take back, and they would say things that they wouldn't want to take back, and that the relationship would sever. Because that's what he ultimately wants to do— kill, steal, destroy. And so when we choose the Spirit over the flesh, it starts healing the situation instead of harming the situation, because God is a healer. That's who he is, right?

This is— yes.

And when you, when you were obedient to him and you live by the Spirit, the Spirit of God moves through you, and the power of God moves through you, and it starts healing everything around you. You know, and so you have to ask yourself the question, like, where else is this happening? Like, is this all the time? You know, and then you start seeing it everywhere. You're like, oh my gosh, like, when I'm on the road and a guy cuts me off, like, that's the spirit versus the flesh. You know, when I want something really bad and I know it's not for me, the Lord doesn't want it for me, it's the spirit versus the flesh. It's, it's everywhere. And isn't it amazing that The Lord God wants to be involved in every single interaction that we have, and he wants us to choose him each time. You know, it's, it's amazing. That's really awesome.

It's awesome.

Yeah, that's awesome, man. So how are things now with the, the family? Are they a little bit—

so yeah, everything's better. Um, you know, it started, you know, diaskalao. I told my wife, I was like, you know, because my wife was really upset with my father-in-law and my mother-in-law. So, um, you know, I said, look, hon, you know, you can't let the devil take, take wind of— you can't let him fester in you. You can't let this anger build up. And who am I to say that, you know? And she's like, what? Um, so everything started dying down, you know, and I started praying. I was praying. I was like, honey, let's pray together. Let's just pray over this. Let's pray over the anger. Let's pray And I kept on saying, pray, pray, pray with her, you know. And now she's like, I'm over it, I'm over this anger. I'm like, well, thank Jesus, you know. So it's— it— and then my father-in-law and my mother-in-law, you know, text her, say, I'm sorry. They apologized and everyone apologized. I'm like, praise God, you see. You know, this is like tremendous blessing, man, you know, where we're at.

So yeah, man, can you imagine if this happens all the time? In your life, you know what I mean? And it can, you know, like, yeah, you know, when I, when I first gave my life to Jesus, um, the person who I was before, I was so awful, and I was so, uh, I was a control freak, you know, right? And I, and I wanted to be the person who, you know, was in control and who, um, you know, was, you know, the, the source of truth. Basically. I wanted to be my own source of truth. And so when I gave my life to Jesus, the reason why I did is because, you know, it— that was such a failure, you know, like it literally almost led to me killing myself and, you know, all of my relationships dying, right? And so when I first gave my life to Jesus, all I wanted to do was listen for his voice and for him to tell me what to do, you know, right? And I— so One of the manifestations of that was, um, so I was listening for his voice and he told me to do the dishes. I never did any chores around the house. I was the worst husband in the world. And so I did the dishes and my wife came home that day and she just kind of looked at it and she went off like she didn't— she was mad at me at the time, you know, and rightly so. I was a jerk. Um, but over time, you know, as the years went on and I'm cleaning the house and I'm serving her, you you know, I realize that the spirit versus the flesh is everywhere. It's in everything. It's in the dishes. It's, it's everywhere. And if you're— if you have your spiritual ears open, what you're going to start noticing is that the Lord is doing something, right? He's actually moving you in a direction, and that direction is toward healing and wholeness, uh, in him, right? And when, when you move in that direction, so at the time when I, when I, um, when I, um, gave my life to Jesus, my wife was not a believer. But 5 years later, she became a believer because the Lord entered our household and I was obedient to him. And over time, she started seeing that something had changed in me. And so, and you know, the healing has not stopped. It's, it's continued, right? Right. And so, um, I wanted to just mention this because, you know, oftentimes, um, just to connect this with the pornography addiction, um, these emotions that Robert's talking about with his anger issues, um, and even in your testimony you said that it was sort of eroticized rage that you were having. You were so angry about things that you would, you know, the porn was like, like a coping mechanism, and you were almost like driven to it because of the anger. And that's absolutely true. Um, that is, that is very common, especially in men. Um, yeah, men who are addicted to anything, there's like a rage that's in it. And so, um, so to keep this together, I just, I want you to understand that these, the anger, the, the lies which lead to the anger is what leads to the, the coping mechanism of pornography.

Right?

And so that is why it is so important that we root out these lies that we're believing, like Robert's belief that he has to be in control. Because what's going to happen when you get angry, you're going to want to go to that coping mechanism, right?

Right.

You got somebody coming up to your car?

Yeah, I do, I do. Yeah, yeah, they're like, uh, how do you talk to you?

Oh, gotcha. Yeah, well, actually, we're gonna wrap up pretty soon, man, so—

okay.

But yeah, so I just wanted to— I wanted you to, like, just for a couple minutes— is that your wife?

No, it's not. My daughter. Hold on one second.

Gotcha.

Can you wait one second? I'm sorry, sorry about that.

It's all good, it's all good. Yeah, man, kids, right? So I just wanted you to talk for a couple minutes about what it felt like for you to be a Christian and be wrapped up in pornography and not be able to break free. Just kind of describe the feelings that that made you feel.

So being a Christian, and, um, like you mentioned, you know, um, first of all, being a Christian is not just a word, you know. It's not just saying I am something. You know, it's something that you got to live and be in, um, and pick up the cross. You know, when God says pick up the cross and follow me, you know, it's like, wow, you know, we don't understand what kind of burden that— you know, it's not a burden, but it's something that's hard, you know, something that, that we got to be differently. We got to be ambassadors of Christ. So with my porn addiction and being in Christ, it was like it wasn't meshing up together, you know. It was not doing right, and I felt it inside. I felt the Holy Ghost saying, break free, break free, break free. But I didn't know how to break free, man, you know. Um, the sad part is that being scared to talk to anybody body. That was the main thing. Like, you know, I'm a Christian, I'm going to church, people are looking at me, you know, I'm, I'm an usher, I'm doing this, you know, have all these titles, right? People are looking at me like, oh, he's a good Christian man, he has a good family, he has a loving family, you know. But behind closed doors, am I really doing that, you know? Um, everything's falling apart in me, you know. So how can I go talk to somebody? I can't. That's a lie, you know. I couldn't talk to my pastor. I can't say, hey man, I'm struggling with this. I didn't know how to do that. I couldn't talk to an elder. I couldn't talk to— and only person I had were secular people I could talk to. Hey man, you know, this is what I'm doing, you know, whatever. They're not going to give me Christian ideas, you know, or, you know, scriptures, right? But those are all lies, man, that I was facing, you know. Um, and when I got that hug from my pastor, like I mentioned, and I, and I, and I got into Victory in Christ, and I got see the love, you know. There was no chastisement, you know, in Victory in Christ. When we're doing our groups, you know, in Victory in Christ, you know, if a man falls, you know, and then he— and he struggles and he falls, we're not chastising, we're not beating him down, saying, man, you should have done this, man, why didn't you call us, man, why— no, none of that. It's saying, okay, I love you, I care for you. Could you have picked up the phone? What did you do? Where could you be at? You know, could you made the phone call? Could you text in? Could you chime in? You know, could you go on Discord with us, you know, and talk to us? What is it? What happened that you weren't able to do these things? You know, how can we make it better for you?

Yeah.

Um, this is the love of Christ, you know. This is everything that Victory in Christ was showing me, what I could do differently, you know. Um, it showed me the love for my kids. It showed me the love of my wife. It showed me the love of, of everything I needed to be in place, you know. To have that peace and have that commitment. Um, without that, I couldn't have done anything, man. So it was a big struggle, man, honestly, you know, living a lie and going to church, you know, playing Christianese, you know, like I said before. Um, and now I'm not, you know, and I tell everybody at church, hey, I messed up. Hey, I can't be there for Sunday school because I'm going to my, you know, my class to help me. And they're like, what? And that's why I don't care who knows, Jessica. I have nothing to hide. Yeah, I'll tell everybody because, hey, there's one person out there that needs to know that I was struggling. And you know what, I did that, and I'm helping out a class now through Victory in Christ. I'm teaching a class, um, not because I'm, I'm holier than thou. No, it's not that, because I have a heart for God. I have a heart for men that want to, that struggle, that want to come out of this. Um, and I've helped other— I've actually shown people and they're like, wow, thank you for doing that, thank you for sharing that. You know, my brother-in-law is struggling, you know, my, my son is struggling, you know this. And I said, well, you know what, here's my number, tell them to give me a call and I'll pray for them, you know. And I, I just give them my number, I'm like, hey, call me anytime, whatever it is, you know, no, no judgment. Um, Now I have 7, 8 guys that called me, you know, for, you know, guidance or whatever it may be, and I just help them out. I was like, hey, where are you? You know, they want me to look in there on their apps, you know, say, hey, can you, can you make— can you be my accountability partner for this? I guess I can, you know. Um, so it's, it's a blessing, you know. I'm trying to do what God wants me to do now. So, you know, with everything you taught me, man, not through you alone, through Christ, of course, course, you know, that taught you and how to be and brought victory in Christ, you know, that, that actually made this wholeheartedly change me, man. Because I'll tell you, brother, you know, from where I was at putting a gun to my mouth, where I was at to wanting to, to strangle myself, where I was at to wanting to give up everything, and now where I'm fulfilled with, with the happiness of Christ Man, you know, I just tell guys, you know, please give it a chance. Give Victory in Christ one chance. Give it that opportunity and mean it, and he'll show you. He'll show you whatever it is that needs to be there. Just do it. Please give it a chance. Absolutely.

Yeah. And you know, you are a shining example of someone who is having victory in Christ., right? So a person who just gets free, he's free in Christ, which is great. It's great, right? But you are taking what the enemy meant for evil and you are turning it for good. Because you have experience in overcoming your porn addiction through Christ, you are now turning that against the enemy and helping your brothers and sisters in Christ. And so that's, that's why I called it Victory in Christ, is because this is, to me, this is the greatest component, is the fact that we get to take what the devil meant for evil and turn it for good. Awesome, man. So, um, last thing. What, uh, so what would you say to the man listening tonight who feels trapped and believe that they're never going to get free? What would you say to them?

That's a lie of the devil. That is a straight-up lie. Um, you know, I told a man, you know, that if they were going to call me and say, hey man, I'm struggling right now, I'm hurting, I need help, I don't believe I could do this. Well, know that you're loved. First of all, know that you, if you're a Christian, that, that you have the power of victory, that, you know, you can forsake the demons, you can renounce it by through the name of Jesus, the blood of Jesus. You don't have to accept that. Don't accept what the devil's saying you have to accept. You're better than that. You're loved. You, you are a child of God. You're an ambassador. You're, you're a man of God. You are a warrior. You are a, a superior being. You know, you are everything of God. He wants you to be. He wants to embrace you. So come to the love of God and let him fulfill your heart. Let him fulfill you and try this out, man. I'm telling you, and it's not a plug-in for you, man. Trust me, it's not a plug-in Victory in Christ app. It's not. I'm telling you, if it's changed me from where I was at, from cheating to sexting to pornography to, to lying to cheat— I mean, you name it, I did it all. And if it could change me, it could change any man, it could change any person, you know. Um, just be open, you know. The Bible says, you know, The heart's desperately wicked, who should know it. You know, the Bible says guard your heart. The Bible says, you know, to, you know, to keep your words and your hidden in your heart so you might not sin against him. There's something about that, the heart right there. If you mean it from your heart and you're asking for protection from the Holy Spirit and you really want it, God's going to give it to you. I was willing to take medication, brother, medicine to change my mind, to change the way I was at. But it only took brothers that love me, an app, your teachings to teach me, to change me, man. It could do anything for you.

Set you free. Yeah, the truth absolutely sets you free, brother. That's all.

Yes, indeed.

You are believing the truth and the truth will make you free. That's awesome. Yes, awesome, man. Well, it's It looks like your kids are trying to get your attention, so I'm— what I would like you to do now is just pray, brother, for anyone who's listening who has heard this and maybe they're caught in addiction or sexting or whatever, uh, and pray for them that, uh, that they might get free.

Okay, sounds good. Dear Father God, Jesus, we come before you. We ask you, Lord God, just be in the midst of us, Lord God Jesus. Any man or woman that's out there that's that's, that's struggling, Lord God Jesus, that you help them to be break free from the bonds, the ties, you know, the, the, the chains that are holding them down, Lord God Jesus. Help them to understand that it's not them, it's, it's the devil that's trying to lead them the wrong way, the wrong path. Lord God Jesus, please help my brother here, James Menendez. You help him within ministry, Lord God Jesus. Help him just to keep on fighting for you, Lord God Jesus. Bless his marriage, bless his endeavors, Lord God Jesus. Bless his family, Lord God Jesus. Help us just to be encouragement to him, Lord God Jesus, and help him be encouragement to us, Lord God Jesus. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.

Amen. Awesome, brother. Well, thank you so much for coming on and giving your testimony, brother. I really appreciate it. No problem. Say hi to your kid. It's all good.

Sorry about that, man.

All right, God bless. Talk to you again soon.

God bless. Okay, take care.

Bye.

Bye.