Best of 2021: Real Estate Investing Live From New York

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This is Real Estate Investing Live from New York with James Nelson, the principal and head of Avis and Young's Tri State Investment Sales Group. In this program, you'll learn about the world of commercial real estate and find out why it's one of the largest investment opportunities in New York and around the world. Now, here is your host, James Nelson.

Welcome to episode number 106 of Real Estate Investing Live from New York. This is your host, James Nelson. I am principal and head of Tri State Investment Sales at Avis and Young. And happy New Year, everyone. What another incredible year it was. We're now into our third full year of this podcast and I've gotten a lot of emails and calls from you all, especially over the holidays, saying how much you've enjoyed these shows. And that means so much to me. That's what makes this all worthwhile. And most importantly, you all are learning when I hear from you all to say, hey, I'm picking up incredible skills advice on how to gain that insider's edge to real estate investing, to be the most successful person possible. That is what this show is all about. And so for today's show, we're going to be doing a best of 2021. These are the keys to success. You have Joe McMillan from DDG, Doug Steiner, and even Alex Rabin and Alex Cascal from Peak. They all talk about tenacity and perseverance, not taking no for an answer, not giving up. And I think those incredible advice, among others that they'll provide for you. We have Adam Gordon from Wildflower talking about passion and doing what you love. You have Janine Yorio from Republic talking about not just credibility, your integrity, but also the importance of working with your team and giving credit to those around you. Very important. We have Rachel Loeb, who is now the the head of the EDC in New York, and she talks about her story. And go back and listen to that podcast, number 69, while you're at it. You should go back and listen to all these podcasts if you like what you hear. She had an incredible story talking about her curiosity, and she talks about taking on the projects that maybe no one else wants to do. And for those of you, we have a lot of listeners out there, whether you're new to the business, you're starting off as an associate and sometimes taking on that project that maybe the more senior people don't want to really spend the time on, that is your way to break in and really show your value. So I love that advice. Eric Birnbaum also talks about his passion and why it's important to listen. And that's just a sampling. We've got have a couple more clips for you as well. I think you're going to really find this episode of help. And before we go to a brief word from our sponsor, I want to make sure and encourage you all if you have not already, check out james nelson.com I've just been rolling it out here in the New year, posting some of those exclusive videos on Instagram or LinkedIn that you can find at James Nelson NYC. But you can go to James Nelson.com and you can sign up for these videos which are going to show you step by step how to gain the insider's edge to real estate investing, which is also the working title of the book that I hope will have out this year. So a lot of exciting news for you all. Wishing you all the best. We're going to have a brief word from our sponsor and we'll get into those interviews.

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An industry unique platform which promotes unparalleled collaboration and teamwork. We share core values of hard work, integrity and expertise. We put our clients first providing tailor made strategies to achieve superior results. Please Visit us at aytristateinvestmentsales.com and follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn and Instagram amesnelsonnyc to learn more. Joe, we only have a couple minutes left and this has been such an amazing discussion. But I mean to summarize, what would you say your keys to success have been throughout your career?

I would say one of the critical components to success is tenacity, you know, not giving up and you know, also having good mentors and good teams around you. I mean you gotta none of us, I can't speak for everybody but I don't think many of us can can be successful on our own. You have to have someone who kind of brings you up along the way. You have to have a good team around you and you have to keep going. You just have to keep going because it's you, you, you, you. You can't stop, you can't get bogged down. You know, you can't get too sidetracked you always have to be trying to make forward momentum because that's where I think you can, you can sputter, you know, if you're not always looking out on the horizon like, okay, what are we doing? What are we doing? Then, you know, you're, you're going to get stuck. And I think that if you can combine, you know, those handful of things, I think it's, it's, it's a good recipe for success.

Wow, that's, that's fantastic. No, that makes a lot of sense. Great advice. And what would you say to someone who's aspiring investors, someone looking to break in, maybe they haven't made their first purchase? What would you tell them to do?

I think if somebody is looking to make their first deal, you gotta kick a lot of tires and you gotta talk to, you know, you gotta talk to people. You gotta do a lot of analytics. Whether it's a tool, you know, an analytical tool like, you know, we have invested in, or, you know, it's doing traditional excel, you know, make sure the numbers are tight. You know, there's a handful of, you know, numbers you gotta make sure are airtight. And you gotta have the right basis and pick the right partners. And I think, you know, if you get the basis and the partners right, you got a good recipe for a good deal.

Well, this has been tremendous. Joe, thank you so much for joining us today. You've got such an incredible story, so inspiring for our listeners, so can't thank you enough for joining us today.

James, you're very welcome. Again, as I said at the beginning, you are one of my very first relationships in the business, and I will always be very grateful for that because you, you know, you gave me a shot at deals when nobody else knew my name. So I appreciate that.

So if you were to pick a couple words to kind of embody the keys to success for what you've done, what would those be?

I think tenacity is probably the most important thing. And, you know, being good to your word, honest and good to your word and sticking to something. And if you believe in something, don't let the naysayers affect your confidence. I definitely have the strength of my own convictions and I'll plow full speed ahead. Like I said, not waiting for a loan or anything, because if it makes sense, just like if there's a tenant out there that makes sense for a given space, I get real excited because it's a good fit. I don't get all excited if it's not a great fit because it might not happen or it's not meant to happen. But if it's a good fit, you know, I'm all in. So I draw, you know, ambition, tenacity and honesty and fairness.

Amazing. Now tenacity is something my grandfather always spoke about and certainly instilled in me. So I could not agree with you more, is that, you know, that stick to itiveness and how important that is for success. So, I mean, Doug, what do you think about for the future? I mean, obviously, you know, getting through this pandemic, world's been turned on its head. I mean, you've always had this knack for finding kind of the next best thing. I mean, you've kind of done it all in New York and even outside. I mean, what's next?

We don't have a discipline or structure where we have people looking for acquisitions or new deals at all times. When we think we're gonna be done with some stuff, we start looking and something turns up. And I'm not afraid to sit on my hands if I think the numbers don't make sense or something. You know, if there's nothing available that makes sense, then I'm not gonna do it. To keep a machine going. We'll find others. You know, we have enough of a base to keep busy with that and the studio expansion. But, but it's an unstructured thing. And serendipity, we've always found something to do. It's not a logical answer, but, you know.

No, no, you kind of, you know when you see it. But, but I also have to say I admire your discipline because there's been several opportunities that I've presented to you in the past. You said, james, you know, this looks amazing. I just, my plate's too full, you know, and I think, you know, the fact that, you know, you're able to know kind of when to, you know, when you're ready to move on to the next one. I mean, that certainly takes discipline. So look, this has been such an incredible discussion. I know our listeners will get a huge amount out of this. My final question would be, what advice would you give to the aspiring investor? You know, someone who's looking to get into the game, you know, where would you suggest they know they start out?

I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that because I only do projects where we create value and we don't buy existing product very well or often it was just from a tax free exchange. I bought like two existing product projects. I think people have to stay within what they know and Start small and learn from that. I didn't really know how to deal with the closing until I bought my first apartment and realized I'd have insurance and a check know, I think title insurance. Just be careful of downside and don't listen to anybody else. You know, do your own homework and rely on no one who's supposed to know more than you because you know, many times they're wrong. Whether they have a separate agenda, a different agenda or not doesn't mean it doesn't mean that they have a separate agenda, but they still might not be right. So if you can't understand it and be satisfied, then don't do it.

That makes a ton of sense. So I will ask one quick follow up question. You know, if so, and hopefully, you know, 100 people are not going to call you after I ask this question. But you know, for those college students or maybe it's someone in a master's program, if they were applying to work for your organization, I mean, what, what, you know, what are the skills, what are the things that pop out on a resume or this, you know, the traits that you're looking for when hiring, maybe that would be, you know, helpful to the audience.

I think humility, ambition and organization. I think there's a lot of blocking and tackling that people overlook. Just my office is a sea of paper. I have a certain system for putting a footer on documents and that way I know which document came before which and people think I'm, you know, incredibly anal and crazy. But you know, given the number of papers I deal with, it works how I organize by trade or by contract and up my files for your development. If you can't organize it that way, you can't really run a job. A job has to be organized and thought out from the beginning. It's all in the prep. So you have to be patient and ambitious and smart. But more importantly, I think the chemistry has to be right. Because if the chemistry is wrong, it doesn't matter how smart they are. They have to fit in the group and has to be a pleasant place people like to go to every day and don't dread.

Incredible advice. Well, Doug, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been unbelievable. So just really appreciate your taking the time.

Thanks so much for having me.

Awesome. Well, hey guys, with just a minute or two left. Alex, Raven, if you know, advice that you would give, again, you've given so much, great advice. But just to sum it up for our listeners, you know, and any other, you know, key traits, what Are key traits you would say are the attributes for success, Especially in a time like this, in this crazy market. What it's taken for you guys to persevere, what say to that?

I mean, starting with one, you know, I would say perseverance, like this is a very hard business. There's good, going to be a lot of roadblocks. There's good days, there's bad days, especially in a time like a pandemic. And there's been a lot of challenges in New York, from the rent regulation changes to Covid changes to the political environment and taxes. And it has not been an easy thing, having a very contrarian view. But I think if you are confident about your thesis and you believe in the business plan and you have perseverance and work hard and continue to just keep pushing and pushing through, I think that's the most important thing about being successful. Because, look, you're going to fail and you're going to probably fail many times along the way until you become successful. But if you keep working through and powering through it and think smart and prudently about how to really roll out the business plan and really focus on a niche, that that's another key importance is focusing on what you're good at. You don't want to be in the same thing that every single person is doing because otherwise you have, you know, no competitive advantage and you're not going to be able to be really successful. But if, if you focus on that and you work hard and you continue to persevere, you know, I. I think it's a very doable thing. It just takes, you know, those traits in an operator.

That's amazing. Well said, Alex Cascal. What would you say to that? Yeah, I mean, I echo Alex Raven's thoughts, but, you know, I would say kind of similarly, you know, don't be afraid of failure and don't be afraid of the word. No, no, it's just one step closer to yes. I know that that's something that we've heard before, but, you know, along those lines, it's just, you know, follow up, follow up, follow up. No matter who you are, you know, you just have to be consistent and you have to be in front of people if you want to, you know, make sure that they're going to listen to you and that you're going to be able to get things done. And I also think that, you know, following your instincts and I think that that's like a really simple thing, but I think it's incredibly important. Typically, you know, the first thing that we think about is usually the right thing. And you know, when you have two different things talking over your shoulder, one telling you this, one telling you that. Go with the one that, you know, you really feel is right, and then good things will happen. Well said and a great way to end the show, guys. Thank you so much for coming on. Amazing story. Really appreciate your sharing, you know, with us. So thank you so much for coming on today. So what advice would you give to an aspiring investor looking to get into this?

I would say don't come into the business at all if you're an aspiring investor. If you're just coming in to make a lot of money and have a house in the Hamptons and Sagaponic and go to the ocean, it's a very difficult way to make a living. If, on the other hand, you feel compelled to make a difference, if you see opportunities and you feel like you have to get involved and you feel like you want to bring your skills to bear at whatever cost, then it's pretty interesting because we're in the middle of cycles. We have very kind of, I call baroque careers because in the course of a day I can be involved in marketing, management, finance, social, environmental. You know, I get to deal with all kinds of really fascinating people in the businesses they run. So it's a fabulous career if those are your goals. But I think that very often I'm meeting people who are either pitching towards finance or pitching towards consulting or pitching towards real estate just for what they perceive is going to be the tremendous return. And it's probably not going to work out. It's a fairly steep pyramid and this is a competitive place with a lot of very talented people. So, I mean, it's marrying that with a very pragmatic passion, I think. Also trying to find somebody who is highly skillful and shares your values and associating yourself with them very early in your career is. Is life changing. Had I not met my partner Steve, or met Matt, or, you know, met Robert De Niro, you know, I would not have had the opportunities that I've had. And so I've tried to capitalize on them. But I recognize that you've got to collaborate and work with really high quality people and teams if we're going to be successful in the business.

I really love that answer, you know, and it's about passion, and I'm so glad that you said that. And so I live in Greenwich, Connecticut, and my kids, when they see the big house on the water and they say, oh, who owns that, oh, you know, he's a hedge fund manager. Well, how about this one? He has a hedge fund, too. And then you ask my kids, what do you want to do? Well, we want to become hedge fund managers. Well, do you even know what they do? And the point is, if it's just about what you think will make you the most money, that is certainly not a career path for success or more importantly, happiness. And so I'm really glad that you pointed that out.

I think the other part of it, too, James, is I tried to have my own life, not the life other people think I should have. And I also, I think it's really important to kind of bifurcate. So if you read Men's Journal, they say, well, if you love surfing, open a surf shop. I'm not so sure that's a great game plan, but invest the time to surf if that's what you love to do. I mean, for me, it's been having a close connection with nature, getting involved in these design projects. You know, whether it's being involved in car projects and I've got a couple going on now, I've always had passion projects alongside my work. And I think it not only makes you a more interesting person, but it makes you definitely a much happier person.

Great advice, and I'm sure our listeners are taking notes, so really appreciate that. Well, Jeanine, we only have a couple minutes left, so just two last questions from me. You know, you've had a lot of success over your career. You've held a lot of interesting positions. What are the key attributes that you would say you attribute your success to?

First of all, I don't know that I would pat myself on the back or do a victory lap about my success just yet. I have a lot to prove to the world. I know that I work insanely hard. I'm one of those lucky people that doesn't need a lot of sleep. I'm very efficient. I also, you know, James, you ever noticed that the most successful people are the people that respond to things? I always, I always find it remarkable. You write, you know, some junior person at a company, and it takes them five days to respond. But when you write the CEO, there, he responds immediately. And I think responsiveness is a. Is a quality that people really value. I'm very honest. You know, I tell my team all the time, never, ever lie, because your credibility is your most important asset and the only way that you can build your personal brand. I am a very vulnerable leader. I tell my team when I'm nervous about things or I'm unsure. I'm the first to admit when I don't know something. I'm also the first to give up credit when it wasn't my idea or I made a mistake. I think humility and it's come with age. I wasn't always like this. I was probably not the most pleasant person to work around in my 20s. But I've been humbled by life and work and I credit a lot of people with all the opportunities I've been given and don't take any of them lightly. And I also really enjoy mentoring young people. I think watching the young people that work for me grow into really mature and interesting professionals is almost as gratifying as being a parent. And it's something I really enjoy.

Wow, you said so many good things there. So really appreciate all that and you embody everything you just said. And I could certainly personally attest to your work ethic and you know, really 24 7. But I would imagine, I mean, I know it's because there's a passion there for what you do and you know, if this was just a job, you know, then yeah, then it, then it just becomes one more thing to respond to. But no, that was really fantastic. And then the last question, advice especially, maybe this is for those listening who are in college or maybe they're thinking about pivoting in their careers. Talk about the intersection of real estate and tech. If someone, I mean really, I mean I've spoken to several people in the prop tech world and the growth there. If someone wanted to get into that space, so to speak, what would be your advice of, you know, how to best position themselves to do that and where to start?

I think a lot of people assume that working at a startup is a lot of fun. You know, they think of working at a startup as like working at Google. It's like free lunch and foosball and massages. And working at an early stage company is nothing like that. It's a nail biter. Every single day you teeter on the brink between thinking that you're going to be the next unicorn and worrying that you're going to go out of business. When we launched Compound, we had a tiny office on the Lower east side that had one bathroom in it. We all joked that we, we all got to know each other a little too well sharing that bathroom. But that's what it really is to build a company from, from ground zero. And I don't know that everybody has a stomach for it. I think there's about 1% of the population that can really handle the volatility and uncertainty that comes with starting a company from nothing. If you are interested in finding a job in real estate, prop tech, fintech, I would encourage you to start on Angellist. They have an amazing job database and lots of really interesting opportunities. You might also start it on the side. There are a lot of opportunities on there that are unpaid equity only, where you can get your feet wet, get to know other people working in the industry and see if you actually enjoy it. Definitely not for everybody, but the rush is pretty insane and when you do have a success it feels amazing. So I start there. Start in Angels. I actually wrote a Medium blog which you can check out. I think it's one of my most popular Medium blogs after the one I wrote about Taylor Swift, but it is how to get a job on Angellist. Where do they find on medium.com if you just search me by name. I wrote an article called how to Land a job on Angellist which goes through some very specific on how to find a job in an early stage tech company and I think that's a good first pass for people that are looking to get into the industry.

Janine, this has been awesome. I've enjoyed collaborating with you so much. Today was no exception. I always just learned so much from listening to you, working with you. So thank you so much for joining us today and sharing all this helpful advice. Absolutely. Well, we really appreciate everything that you're doing for the city and to give back. And we only have a couple minutes left, so just a parting question and for those again who are looking to get into the game, what would be your advice? What would you say? Your. What was the key to your success to get you to where you are today?

That's a good question. I don't know if there's ever a key, but I think, I think one is just having a general curiosity. You know, the great thing about real estate and planning or whatever it is is that you can never stop learning.

And you can.

There's so many different, different ways to grow and learn and be enthusiastic about an opportunity in front of you. So I think just being generally curious, I think the other thing is leaning in and saying like sometimes taking the crappy project that nobody wants is the one that turns out to be if you can make a diamond out of a piece of coal, it creates things. So if other people don't want it, take it. Because one people appreciate it. Two, you never know what you could make out of it and people remember that. So I Mean, that sports authority deal, like that is a perfect example, like taking the scraps at lunch and like turning it into something, you know, we ended up selling it at the end. Just going on that journey was great. And then third is, like I said in the beginning, people are going right, go left, because it makes you different. And there's a lot of the same out there. And you don't need. I don't think you should go through life having a checklist of like. Even though I said I feel like I need to have a checklist of my own, but I'm trying to break that rule. And so, you know, just be honest to who you are as an individual and what interests you and you don't. Someone tells you you need to do this and then you do this and then you do this, and this is how you're going to be a successful real estate developer. I wholesale reject that. I didn't go to business school, I didn't follow any normal things and it worked out. So, you know, just be nice to people, keep your relationships network, talk to people and they all come back together.

That's wonderful. That, that is incredible advice. Rachel, you've got such a amazing story. Really appreciate your coming on the show today and sharing it with our listeners.

Oh, thank you so much, James. I appreciate it. Thanks for thinking of me.

Wow. I love that perspective and the way you approach the business. And it makes me think back to the first podcast that I ever did with Bruce Ratner and he talked about collaborating with Jay Z. Barclays Arena. It's again, kind of bringing in and collaborating outside the traditional real estate business. You're going to deliver something that hasn't been done before. So Eric, you're being super modest here. And I've looked at some of your acquisitions. I mean, you mentioned the Rio deal. I mean that was over a half a billion dollars, 2,500 keys. I mean that is a major, major, major project. So where do you see the future of dreamscapes? Hey, I've done it all. I started kind of doing my own deals and had this incredible partnership. And you're doing some of the largest, most important transactions out there. I mean, what does the future hold?

Well, first off, just taking a step back. I hope we're just getting started. And one of the things, and I do credit this just going full circle back to my father in law and for the younger people who are perhaps like thinking about careers and whatnot, like if there's any advice like that I could give for whatever it's worth Is that when I was on Wall street, the one thing that I can assuredly say unequivocally is that I was not passionate about it. And when I left Wall Street, I remember people asking me, do you still look at the market? And do you still look at where the market closed or opened or this or that? And I said, no, I was not passionate about it at all. And when I sit here today and think about what it is that I do day in and day out, I found my passion and I found what it is that I truly, like, enjoy doing. It's how I identify myself. It's what I do and what I love. This is what stimulates me. So that to me, when you can find a job that doesn't feel like a job, you then have, like, found like, what it is, like, that you should be doing. And so, like, for me, that's not to say, like, it's not a lot of hard work and there are times where you want to, like, pull your hair out. But I think all that hard work and dedication and finding my passion has gotten us this point. And now people believe in us a little bit more when we say that we can do something. Like, instead of people doubting it now, they have seen that it has been done and they believe it. Things get a little bit easier as you, like, prove yourself along the way. And then as a result, it gets even more fun because some of the dream things that you always, like, wanted to do, like a Rio, actually become reality. And for me, I feel like we're just getting started and I'm beginning to have even more fun.

That's awesome. Couldn't agree more with you that it's about passion and you can't just be in this for the money. And so it's great that you're more excited about the future. So. Well, you got an incredible story here and I know our listeners are going to take away a lot. What?

Thank you.

James, the course of your career, what would you say have been the keys to your success?

Yeah, sure. I think one of the keys to success is being self reflective, kind of really understanding what it is that makes you tick and what is it that gets you out of bed? I think being able to step back and just saying, hey, I don't. It's not just money, because I think a lot of young people say, I just want to make a lot of money. I don't think you make a lot of money if that's your focus. I think you make a lot of money doing things that you're passionate and love. Because ultimately it boils down to what I think the cliche answer is. Just working hard. And it's like really hard to just work hard and hate what you do. I mean I did it as an investment banker frankly, but it wasn't sustainable as a business model. It was a good stepping stone to what I do now. But I wasn't personally passionate about wasn't something that got me up every morning. What I do every day, underwriting real estate deals, understanding hospitality deals, underwriting venture deals, I love. And so it's not work. You know, people ask what are my hobbies? I'm like, my hobbies are my work because I love it. It's like I get to design hotels, I get to back incredible entrepreneurs, you know, that's, that's what I love. And I think doing that self reflective deep dive and saying, hey, what do I really love? You know, not, not being silly. It's not, it's. I didn't mean it that way. Like you want to be an artist doing art, that's great. You probably might not make a lot of money because the probability of being successful is probably not high unless you're just really great at it. But it depends on what type of art. But maybe you can use that art skill to do something else that actually makes sense. Like maybe you can be an interior designer. That's amazing and that sort of thing. You know, I think, I think really kind of being self talk of what makes you get up every morning is really important.

I'm going to make sure my 16 year old son listens to this interview very carefully because when I asked him what do you want to do? He says I want to make a lot of money. There's certainly a lot more to life. And I love what you had to say about being self reflective and passionate. And I've got to add from your bio real estate enthusiast. I have not, you know, I've not heard, you know, someone's bio and this entrepreneurial spirit. So I mean you definitely embody it.

Thank you Isaiah. I mean it's true. Like I love real estate. I do, I love hospitality real estate. I love that we can actually make a difference in people's lives and make experiences for them and make them feel better every day and house them and to make them feel safe and everything else. I think it's just, it's something, it's, it makes me connect with people. I love it.

Absolutely. I completely feel the same way. So. And then just last question, what advice would you give and we actually, we have a lot of listeners to our show who are still in college and they're thinking about getting into real estate or maybe someone who's even, maybe they're thinking of switching fields. Maybe it's an investment banker who's listening to the show right now. I mean, what advice would you give them to break into real estate and be successful?

Yeah, biggest advice I do is just do a deal, do a small deal. I mean I, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing a two unit duplex on the outskirts of the city that you, that you got, you know, that you, you've used your life savings to invest in or get some friends and family, ideally to put a few bucks in, but it's not a lot. Do your first deal, then do your second deal and then do your third deal. It don't start big because there's no need in real estate. You have enough folks that also like real estate, that also invest, want to invest in real estate, that all the developer track record isn't that hard. You know, you just have to do a few deals and all of a sudden you're a real estate investor. And I think just don't think about the first 100 unit deal in Manhattan and like it's an uphill climb. It's hard. Just start with something, get it, do your first, get it under your belt and move on. It's so much easier, you know, not complicated.

That's an awesome way to end and just so inspiring. I really hope our listeners take this to heart. So ateet, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your story.

Thank you for tuning in this week to Real estate investing live from New York. Please join your host, James Nelson for another program next Tuesday at 7pm in New York, 4pm Pacific Time on the Voice America Business channel. All shows are rebroadcast on Wednesday mornings at 7am Eastern Time and 4am Pacific Time as well as always on demand. We'll talk again next week.

Sam.