Canvassing with Beth Azor

Foreign this is the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing with James Nelson, the principal and Head of Avis & Young's Tri State investment Sales Group. In this program you'll learn game changing strategies to outperform the market. James will teach you how to source, execute and capitalize on the best real estate opportunities in New York and around the world. Now here's your host.

This podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be relied upon for investment decisions. The opinions expressed are those of the guests and not their companies. Listeners should not act upon the information without first seeking appropriate advice from an accountant, lawyer or other professional. Welcome everyone to episode number 196 of the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. This is your host. Host as always, James Nelson. I am Principal and head of Tri State Investment Sales for Avis and Young and we have a treat for you today. We have Beth Azur coming back on the show. Go back and listen to that first episode because there was a lot more that we got into and this time we definitely had some fun with this episode. I love following Beth and everything that she's sharing out there. I learn a tremendous amount whether you are a broker, whether you're an investor, anything, any sales, anything that involves with outreach and best takeaway is in person is best. Do not hide behind your computer and expect that emails are going to get you there. She really is out there pounding the pavement and doing incredible things. So I know you are going to learn a tremendous amount from this episode. As always, you can go to james nelson.com that's where you can find the show notes for this. That's where you can find white papers, articles that I've written to help you gain the insider's edge to real estate investing so you can gain the advantage to outperform the market. And while you're at it@James Nelson.com, you can also sign up for my newsletter. You can connect with me at James Nelson nyc. A lot of you have been linking in with me, connecting, suggesting guests, coming up with questions. I love responding, really appreciate the support and getting the word out there. We're going to have a brief word from our sponsor and we're going to get right into that interview with Beth Azure A Different Approach to Putting Our Clients First Avis and Young's Tri State Investment Sales Group sells multifamily office, retail, development and specialty sales throughout the New York metro area. As experienced thought leaders in our industry, our 35 member group is available to help you make informed investment decisions by advising you on your current holdings or identifying new opportunities in the marketplace. Our one unified team is built on an industry unique platform which promotes unparalleled collaboration and teamwork. We share core values of hard work, integrity and expertise. We we put our clients first providing tailor made strategies to achieve superior results. Please Visit us at aytristateinvestmentsales.com and follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn and Instagram amesnelsonnyc to learn more. Welcome to the insider's edge to real estate investing. I'm your host James Nelson and back with us is Beth Azura who is the canvasing queen. Beth is founder and owner of Azura Advisory Services. Has incredible client list including Phillips Edison, Brixmore, dlc, Urban Edge, just to name a few. But most Importantly, owner of $75 million and counting of retail. And her goal is to empower more women to invest in real estate. I love that mission. And look, if you're a guy listening to this episode, you're going to get a lot out of this as well. I'm sure Beth wouldn't mind if you become a successful investor as well. So Beth, welcome back. Thank you for everything do for the real estate community.

Thank you, James. Thanks for having me. And yes, I want guys to invest too, but they're already investing.

Yes. Starting off maybe, maybe not on a real estate note, but our mutual friend Rod Santomosimo, who's also been on this show, he recommended a book and I don't know if you introduced it to him or vice versa, but I'm almost through with it, which is Die with Zero. I don't know if my kids like the title of the book, but for our audience, why don't you just summarize what the book's about. And then Rod said, you're already, you're already off on this trail. So just, I think this would be helpful for our audience to just understand what that, that's all about.

Yeah. So my friend Barry Wolf, who also knows Rod, he's the one that called me one day and said, hey, I think you're already living this, but this is a great book and it might take, you know, the experiences a bit further. I read it, I loved it. I called Rod, I sent it to Rod. I said, you need to, you know, read this book. And basically it's, you know, there's a life energy, you know, you work. And most of us think we're going to run out of money or we're going to, you know, we're going to be healthy and traveling till we're 90, and that's really not what's, what is going to probably happen. So we over save, we work longer than we should and we say and we don't enjoy life. And I feel like I've done a really good job of enjoying life my whole life. But there were some certain things that I read in the book. For example, if you die at 85 and your kids are 60, you know, do they need the money at 60 when you die or do they need the money at 40 when they're buying their first house? And don't be stingy about not giving them money for important things when they need it when they're younger and then also spending money. Do they want a big fat check when you die, or would they rather. For me, like I took my, I have two sons and one I took to the NFL draft in Detroit back in April where we had VIP tickets, and then the other one, who's a golfer, I took to the U.S. open in Pinehurst. So I'm spending money on things that will create memories versus, you know, they're going to get checks anyway, but they're going to remember the experiences and value them more than the checks.

Beth, I love that. And especially the part about spending on experiences and memories that this isn't just go, you know, blow your savings on fast cars and watches. I mean, this is really making the most of it. And again, doing things that, you know, whenever you all are thinking of retiring, whether it's 60s, 70, 80s, never, you know, at a certain point you don't have the same ability to do things you want. So I'm, I'm jumping on the bandwagon. I'm leaving in a couple days for Paris. I'm going to the Olympics. I've never been to the Olympics. Why not? Right.

So I was in Paris two weeks ago. So I was in Paris right before the Olympics. And then we rented a villa in Provence for a week. So I just got back from France. Yeah. And it's, you know, bucket list items. Why are we waiting? We don't want to kick the bucket before we reach and get our bucket list items. Right?

Absolutely. So, Beth, I know you're one of the hardest working people in the business, and I want to get into your canvassing style because I think it's so helpful and I think listeners will really learn a tremendous amount. But look, when you are traveling, you're away from the office, you're probably not doing the same. I mean, maybe you'll tell us you were canvassing from the NBA Draft. But how do you find that balance? Where you know your work ethic and what you've done to be so successful? Like how do you balance that? When you go and take a trip, are you completely unplugging or what's, what's your approach in that regard?

I would tell you that I'm 80% unplugging. So I have a director of operations who started, started as my part time assistant when I started the company 20 years ago. And at this point with we have four assets, four shopping centers that we own, she can run those assets without me. So probably I was gone for 16 days and maybe we spoke four times. And really the amount of times or the subject matter was she was just checking with me. This is what she thought she would do about this issue. Like one of our tenants who's under construction opened up a wall and found mold and it was a demising wall with another tenant. And in our leases it says that they've got to go to the other tenant. This is not my problem. They took the space as is. So she was, she just called and said, so we've got this issue, you know, it's kind of blowing up. This is what I think. And I said, yeah, that's, you know, that's exactly how you need to handle it. They need to call the neighboring tenant and go through their insurance. So I think having significant and phenomenal assistance and a team and a village allows me to go and do without having to check in that often. So I do try to unplug because I think it's super important. I love to read as obviously the whole die with zero. I read those types of books all year long. But when I go on vacation I read fiction books and I do crossword puzzles. I love to do crossword puzzles on vacation and I love to read fiction. So I got to read four books on vacation and I love that. So I think that it's important to unplug. But it's hard to unplug if you don't have support at home.

Building a team around you is just so vital for success in whatever you're doing. And I certainly wouldn't be here talking to you doing this if we didn't have an incredible to help produce and make this happen and on the brokerage and investing side as well. And I would imagine, and it sounds like that a big part of that also is having trust in your people. And I know that's what really, I think a lot of people struggle with is they kind of feel like, well, no one can do it better than me. And they kind of slide into this micromanaging and I'm guilty all the time. My team is always saying, james, get out of the weeds. I can't help myself. But, but I gotta imagine if you're unplugging, you know, that asset manager is gonna have to make some decisions. And you know what, sometimes those decisions are not gonna be the decisions that you would have made. And I gotta imagine that, you know, you've gotta be willing to accept those and also say, well, look, I can only grow so much if I'm the bottleneck on every little thing. As opposed to trusting in a team that you can leverage and so you can do, you know, other things, not just in business, but again, go out and have fun as well.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, look, we all know that our team members are going to learn more from mistakes that they make and we need to let them make them. And it's very rare, you know, we're not curing cancer. Right. It's very rare that a mistake is going to be life altering, you know, that we can't come back from. So I, you know, I am not in the weeds, girl. I really, if I. But again, growing trust. This person's been with me for 20 years. I have a part time bookkeeper, I had a part time property manager, but she just got an opportunity to move to North Carolina, which it's very expensive to live in South Florida and we just sold three deals. So where I had a property manager, now I don't because she relocated and now it's back to Josie and I, which is why we're talking about mold. But I trust these people implicitly and I'm a big believer that if you can't trust them or they make too many mistakes or you're in the position where I can just. It's easier for me to do it alone. Then you have the wrong person and you need to replace that person.

Yeah, you have to have the trust in the team, but also there has to be that accountability. And when things aren't working, you have to be prepared to make changes. That makes a ton of sense. So, Beth, I'd love to now talk about what has made you famous. The canvassing queen. I can't get enough of it every time I hear your stuff. And you're very active on social media so you'll tell everybody your handles and we'll of course put it in the show notes. But you know, talk a little bit about your canvassing approach because I Think whether you're a landlord and you're trying to find tenants, or if you're a leasing broker or even for investors out there, sale brokers, talk about your canvassing approach and what all is involved with that.

So I'm a big believer in person to person, not phone calls, not emails. And in retail, you know, owning shopping centers, if I want to fill a vacancy with a tenant that's qualified, where would I find that person in another shopping center that he's already renting space from someone. Right. So I love that. But I also talk to my industrial brokers and my office. I mean, the best, probably the best asset class to canvas ever in my career of 39 years right now would be offices, because every office tenant is looking to either downsize, upgrade, you know, get bigger. Who. Who the heck knows? But everyone knows that there's opportunity in the office market. So I'm a big believer in person to person, you know, because I ask people when I, you know, I speak to groups and I say, when was the last time you bought something from a cold caller? Right. It's almost next to impossible, but if you meet someone and it's, it's per and it's person to person. And then for me, in retail, every person who opens a store, when they open the first store, James, they had an American dream to open more. It was going to be a rollout. Now, once they opened that one store, let's say it's a tennis store, they decide, okay, I'm good with one. But every time that they open, 90% of the tenants that I do business with, they all have this dream to open more. So when me, the canvassing queen or any retail lease leasing agent that reps landlords, walk into someone's store, they're open to talking because they're thinking, I want to open more locations. And even if they're not thinking, maybe they've gotten to that point where I'm 65, I'm going to retire. One store is enough. They still have a renewal coming up eventually. And they still want to talk to that leasing agent because that leasing agent has information regarding rental rates in the area that they can glean from that interaction. So where people go, I don't want to go because they're going to reject me or they're, I'm going to interrupt them. Or now, yeah, if you walk in and the guy says, no, I'm not interested, and you start, you know, haranguing him about, well, why aren't, you know, you start pressuring him these old fashioned, 1960s high pressure sales. Yes. Then you're going to have a problem. But if you're respectful of their time, you're in and out, you're just. I think I have had so much more success in person to person canvassing than cold calling on the phone. Now, certainly investment sale brokers, it's a, you can't find, you're not going to go person to person canvassing. Right? But I, I have investment sale brokers call me all the time and, and you know the game. Hey, are you looking to buy? Yes, I'm looking. Or are you looking to sell? No, I'm not looking to sell. Well, are you looking to buy? Yes, sure, I'll buy. Well, what are you looking to buy? You know what, what are you looking for? And, and that irritates me because, and I get three of these calls a week. If I ever had an investment sale broker call me and say, hi Beth, or even email me first, this would be better. Hi, Beth, I went on your website, I saw that you own three shopping centers. They're all on University Drive in Davie, Florida. They're all 30 to 50,000 square feet. We just got a listing for something in your market down the street in the size range. It's very similar. Would you want to talk to us about that? Or, you know, if I come across something that looks like, you know, and list the highlights of what I buy. Because if you go to my website, everything looks pretty similar. If they do a little homework, I would be much more willing to talk to them on the phone, but they don't do the homework. And then that's why I think that they're not as successful.

Beth, this is so helpful. And we have a lot of investors who listen to this show, but certainly a lot of brokers as well, and a lot of sales brokers. So I, I hope they are taking notes and you know, I would think, and certainly when I started off it was, hey, this is a numbers game, right? So you got to make your 250, 300 calls a week. So I'm sure someone's listening to this right now saying, you know, Beth, that sounds great, but that takes me five minutes to research and in that five minutes I could make five phone calls. But I think your point is, you know, would you rather have a success rate where you immediately make that connection where this is not just a true cold call, but this is really someone who's taken the time? So I, I love that. Doing the research up front and starting with as far as you know, you're just one of the thousand people that I'm calling this week. It's, you know, Beth, I been watching what you're doing. I've seen your portfolio. I think this would be a great match. Then at least you're going to say, okay, this is someone who's taken the time. I, I'm going to make sure that everyone on my team listens to this episode because that, that is invaluable. But I'm going to.

And James, don't you think that. So I, for me, if I canvas a store, I don't, I know I'm not going to go lease a space to that person on my first canvas. My job is to create a dialogue with that store owner and then maybe in six months or a year, I do a deal. I would hope that the investment sale brokers are thinking when they make the 250 phone calls, 100 are first time. This is first time I'm calling Beth Azore. So I'm not going to get an assignment from Beth on the first call. But I need to cultivate the relationship and to take five minutes. And what I would challenge those people is to say, look, do it your way. Make the 250 calls and jam them all in. Now do 100 calls and take the five minutes and see at the end of on Friday at 5 o', clock, where did you have more meaningful relationships? Where did you start cultivating better relationships? So now when I call Beth back and you know, John Smith, I had a good call with John Smith and I see John Smith on my phone, I'm like, oh, that was the kid that knew my portfolio. I'm going to take that call maybe.

As something for me that makes a ton of sense. And look, this is super helpful for those who are new to the business, growing their business. And I mean my, my approach now, I, I don't cold call anymore. And sure, people say, oh that's great, James, you've been doing this for, for 25 years. But I, I think a lot of it was to your point. If I think about the people who I sp. Still stay in regular contact, these were people that maybe, sure, I got the, on a cold call, but then it was meeting them at the property, having a coffee, becoming friends, right. And staying connected and knowing what they're looking for. I mean, I think part of the value again when I'm making that call of what we have for sale is knowing what they're looking for so I can help them. You know, everybody's pressed for Time, right? No one wants to go through and, you know, scan through tons of listings. You want to know what is the right fit, what's actionable. So, and I think also for you investors out there who are, who are looking to raise equity, you know, it's the same thing, like find out what the equity is looking for or what the equity has done. So when you're pitching a deal saying, hey, look, I saw you invested in, you know, this type of value add, industrial opportunity, I have something that I think would, would meet your profile again. You're showing that you've done your work, and I think your, your degree of success just goes up so much further. But listen, Beth, I do want to ask a question, question for our. Because you mentioned the office leasing brokers out there. So part of the success of your canvassing strategy is to be able to just walk into stores. And I, I know you've also said, don't ignore the gatekeeper. You know, the reception is, you know, go in, you know, make nice, have a conversation, tell them why you're there. Now if you try to walk in, we're here at 530 Fifth Ave. That's where my office is here. And you just try to walk right through the lobby and straight up the elevator and start walking into people's offices, they'll probably call the police on you. So I know back in the day, that's how office leasing brokers canvas. They would literally go in because a lot of the landlords, you know, kept that information very tight. It wasn't on costar or wherever. So you can't just walk into someone's office anymore. So how would you, you know, for the tenant rep, office leasing brokers out there listening right now, or if you're an office landlord and you're looking to attract office tenants to your building, how do you do that if you've got, you know, security and you can't just walk into someone's office?

So, James, last summer I canvassed 37 buildings, office buildings in Cleveland. Some had security, so I could not. If they had security, I couldn't do it. So I went to the B and C buildings that didn't have security. And I did exactly what we used to do. I'd go to the top floor and work my way down. And believe it or not, I never got kicked out. Now, the B and C buildings, because of the amount of vacancy they have and lack in, maybe there's leases signed, but there's no one in there. They've started getting rid of some of their Services like security. So I walked into a Regis call center, like a Regis executive suite. There was a. But what I found during doing this office canvassing last summer was so many people got rid of their receptionists. That was harder than getting around the lack of security guard in the lobby. So in this. In this one case, I pushed the button, intercom said, hello. I said, hi, I'm here. I have office space in Cleveland, and I want to know if you're looking for more space. She goes, just one minute. She buzzes me in, she comes out, and she goes, what do you need again? And I told her, and she goes, it's so funny. Our head of real estate is in town. Let me see if you would want to see you. So she comes back out, she goes, come on in. And I walk down this long hallway. There's all of these executive suites. They're all full. And I go into this guy's office. He goes, people do this? I go, no, just me. And we did it. We worked on an loi. Now, if you know anything about these Regis deals, you know, it's a pay to play thing. Like, you've got to build them out and you've got to pay. So my client ended up not doing the deal, but I showed him space twice. We were negotiating, Lois, and I just walked in, and so I didn't get kicked out of 37 buildings in Cleveland, Ohio, last summer.

So I know you were raising the blood pressure of our Gen Z listeners, because these kids, they don't.

What?

You know, like, why would I ever pick up the phone and call somebody? Or actually, you know, God forbid, you'd walk in when you can send them a text or, you know, or an email. And it's like, I remember when my book first came out. And thank you for making the. You were one of my first supporters, Beth, on this book. I said, look, I'd love to give you a draft because I. You have this incredible program. You're inspiring women to invest. This is why I wrote this book. You said, james, you know, send me 50 copies. You've got your review on the back. So I'm trying to get the word out there, and how can I not have my local bookstore not offer my book? So it's. It's a Saturday, and I've got my. My middle son. It was my oldest son in the car, and I pull over and I. I have my book with me, and I. He says, dad, what are we doing? I said, I'm. I'm walking into the bookstore to see if they'll offer my book. He's like, dad, you can't do that. You don't have an appointment. You can't just walk in. They're gonna throw you out. I'm like, luke, okay, all right, so maybe that's the worst thing. Maybe they kick about. But I went in, and sure enough, 30 minutes later, my. My book is displayed in the shop. You know, but. So, yeah, I mean, I think for some of us, what you're saying is outside their comfort zone, but, like. Exactly. It's like most people are uncomfortable doing this, which is all the more reason to do it, because then you.

Yeah, that's the point, right? It's a supply and demand. Right? Like the guy saying people do this, like, he was shocked. Obviously, no one had ever done it. I'm now negotiating an loi with the guy. But, you know, if the building had security, I would take pictures of the directory, right. And I would try to cold call them. Or the other thing I do that, that I did is I created. Once I went through the 37 buildings, I created a market study on what was really happening, because these online services told us that the Cleveland Market was 60% occupied and it was 20% occupied. So I did a very thorough market study of all of the buildings. What. What the occupancy was, what the rates were, what were the incentives being given on the market study. I put the, you know, Collier's agent and their phone number, and I hand. And I was. I was representing a building, but I was. And this is what tenant rep brokers can do. And I handed this to the gatekeeper, who then the gatekeeper gave it to the decision maker. And that sat on their desk for, you know, six months to when I was literally getting calls. I got two calls last month from a guy from two different an accounting firm and a law firm who had my market study on their death since last summer. And we're now ready to talk about. And now I don't have that assignment anymore. It was a consulting assignment, but that's what the tenant rep broker should do, like a very thorough market study. And that's the handout that they leave behind. And I promise they'll get calls because that is valuable information that there are law firms and accounting firms sitting in office buildings saying, should I move? What's the rent? What's the real rent? You know what? What's my neighbor say the rent is versus an expert giving not a printout from an online source, but real information.

Yeah. And, Beth, this is what our friend Rod would talk about the physical piece of the presence pyramid. And you know, how many hundreds of emails do we each get per day where it's delete, delete, delete. I mean it has no lifespan. Whereas if you have a physical report, again, why would you send someone a hard copy piece of mail? Because no one else is doing it. Or a book, you know, it's people. Maybe they won't read it, but I think they'd have a hard time throwing it out. Maybe they'll at least leave it on their desk and maybe they'll think about reading it. But I do want to talk about again, maybe this is for our gen zers to get back in their comfort zone. I love what you do with your canvassing over social media because this is brilliant. And what I heard you say was that especially for these mom and pop tenants that usually the person running their social media accounts like they're a small business, they do not have time to outsource the money to outsource. You know, they are doing this. So you have been very successful at DMing brands directly. Just tell, tell the listeners how you go about doing that.

Sure. So I just did this yesterday because I, you know what I talk about. I actually do. So I was driving to an appointment to go check out a barber shop yesterday, and on the way to the barbershop, I passed a western wear store. And in my shopping center I have all of the restaurants I can accommodate. So now I just need pure retail. And it's really hard to find pure retail because that is what the Internet took from us. We have restaurants and we have services. But to do pure retail that don't need a lot of parking is a challenge. So as I'm driving to the barbershop and I see this western wear, I'm like, oh, Western wear. Like I didn't realize, you know, because we retail agents, we Target uses a lash store, a barber shop, an insurance agent, a tax person. But I never thought of western wear. And I'm. One of my shopping centers that I have vacancy in is in kind of like a cowboy town. So it's perfect. So I got got back to my office last night and I went to Google and I looked up western wear stores. And in my county, so Broward County, Fort Lauderdale area, there are 10 Western Wear stores. So I went to. So I wrote them all down and I went to Instagram and I started looking the, you know, you know, JoJo's Western Wear. And I go, they have a Instagram. I go to the message and I DM them. Hey, are you looking for more location? You know, would you be interested in an additional location in Davie? That's the town. I own shopping centers in the area. I sent out nine dms last night and two reached back out to me already. And I have a showing on Saturday with one of them that is, I.

Mean, ask for our cold callers out there. You know, what is the response rate? And I mean, you're already higher than, than 20% and counting and looking at conversion and actual showing. So I, I just want to make sure that, that our listeners and, and if you haven't heard our, our first episode together, go back and listen because I know we really went into that, that strategy. So, Beth, I love how specific your advice is. And then most importantly, you do it right. So that's. Again, we, we keep bringing up our friend Rod. I feel like he should be on the show with us, but knowing isn't doing. You know, you all are listening. I hope you're taking notes, but actually try this. Do it right. So, Beth, I now want to talk about your academy and your mission to have more women become real estate owners. And I think you told me at one point that women only account for 1%. 3. 3%.

So it's 3 of all of all us commercial real estate investors. There was a crew report that said, said 3%, but you're right, 50% of those are spouses who are signing on the guarantees of their husband's acquisitions or inherited. So for me, I'm part of 1.5%. Wow, 1.5%. That's deplorable.

It is. So I mean, we could spend a whole show talking about why that is, but what is the solution? What is the barrier to entry? You know, what, why does this exist and how are you fixing it?

So I started, when I found that out, I started calling my friends, by the way. They're all in the industry, all the women in the, in the industry because we're 30% in the C suite. So there's, it's not about. So there's women doing this on a day to day basis, which means this is legal insider trading. Right? So I have friends who they rep, they're a tenant rep for Starbucks. They find a site for Starbucks and then they hand the package over to a guy. And we love our guys, but why don't you do the development? You know, So I started interviewing my friends and they, I said, why aren't you investing? And they're like, it's too complicated. Complicated. So would you Invest your money at all? Yes. Well, where do you invest it? In the stock market. Oh, well, that's not complicated at all. Or it's too risky. Well, again, my Netflix stock dropped 80% last year, and that's risky, too. You know, way more about real estate than the stock market. But you're putting your money in. So I kept asking, and I kept asking, and finally, what someone said, and then it started to make sense. They go, we don't know any other women doing it. Aha. Well, yes, because there's only 3% of us doing it and really only 1.5%. So I said, I can fix that. And so this was during COVID and I had a virtual conference where I had, I think, 100 women attended, and I had women on stage that were investors. So a woman that owned shopping centers, a woman that owned land, a woman that owned hotels, a woman that owned car washes. And I said, I can get the word out by putting women. Every time I meet a woman that is an investor, I say, you have to come to my conference. Or since then. So I've had four conferences, and now I have a website. I mean, a podcast called Women Investor Wednesdays, where, because I'm running out of space on my conference, I can. And now there's. There's. I'm learning that there's more and more women doing it. Great. So I put them on my podcast so that women can't say they don't know women. Like, right now, I think there's over 30 episodes with women investors in all different asset classes, and I don't have any way to track. My goal is to get that number from 3 to 10. I'm 63, so by the time I turn 70, I want to get that number to 10. I have no way to track it. But every time at the start of my conference, I say, who was here last year and hadn't invested and who has since invested? And every year, about seven to nine women stand up so we can change the world one person at a time. So that's all. And, like, when I go to Rod's conference, I literally go around the room and meet every woman and say, do you invest? So, you know, so if they're in the business, they should be investing.

Beth, I love the mission. And again, the fact that you are out there doing it and empowering and educating women to do this and again, showing them and creating this community, Right? And I love having women on this show for that very reason, because I know we have a lot of female listeners and sure, they can learn a lot of great things from guys as well, but when they hear from you and see, hey, you didn't own anything before you started buying shopping centers and you figured it out. So I think that that is super important. So I. I'm gonna. I want to check that, that list of who you've interviewed. I'd love to have some of those women on, on this show as well. So what is the, you know, the advice? I mean, if you were to summarize what goes into this, you know, this conference. Because for those people listening right now who have yet to buy their first deal, like if. If we're in the proverbial elevator ride and you have to make the pitch and, you know, I've just said, well, and let's say it's a real estate professional, maybe it is that tenant rep, broker, that's a great example. So they know the space, they know the tenants. But hey, you know, this seems a little risky and this and that. But, like, what would you say their first step is to. To make that. You know, where does it start? Is it finding the deal? Is it finding the investor? How do you tell people to start out?

So the first thing I do is I say, save your money. Because I was asked to invest three times before my boss took me by the neck and co signed a $50,000 note for me to invest in my first deal as an lp. Because I kept blowing all my money. You know, I'm making. The first year I was like 60,000, and I was married and he was making 60. We didn't have any money. The second year I was making, the second time he asked me, I was making 100, and my husband was making 100, and we were blowing our money. I was thinking, oh, I've invested in the 401k, I've maxed out. I'm doing well. No. So the third time he asked me, I would make it 150, and my husband's making 150 years. You're an idiot. And so he took me by the neck. Co signed a note, that $50,000 investment, we refied out and paid the bank back six months later. But it was on the one condition that every commission check I got from that point of forward, 20%, had to go in an investment account. Smart boss. I mean, so. And then from then on, I did seven LPs with him, limited partner positions. Because once you get a taste, that $50,000 investment over 20 years paid me over a million dollars in distributions. So my first, my. I Tell that story. Not in the elevator. But I tell them to save money, because you can't. If you get an opportunity and you don't have any money, that doesn't do you any good. So the first thing is save money. The second thing, if you have money saved, is start telling everyone you know that you want to invest in commercial real estate because someone might have a deal and they don't know that you're interested. So the guys talk about this on the golf course and oh, I'm investing in that deal. I'm investing in that deal. Women don't talk about money. They don't. I'm on that mission to start talking about money more. But start telling everyone that you know that you want to invest. And then third, when you get an opportunity, you know, if you're. If your savings is 50 grand, don't put it all in one deal. See if you can do a 10 grand or 20 grand minimum. Tell the general partner that you're just starting out. Like, I do that all the time. I let women come in at 10 or 20,000 smaller than my minimum because I need to get women to do this. But don't put all your eggs in one basket and start as a limited partner, because that's like dipping your toe in the. To go start your first development. If you don't, you know, you've never done it. That would be dangerous. But vet, vet the sponsor. Like, make sure it's someone. I always tell people when they're vetting me, I go, you can talk to my current investors. But what I think you should do is you should talk to investors that don't invest with me anymore. And people go, you'll give me those names? I'm like, yes. And that's what you should ask your general partner. So save money. Tell everyone you're looking to do it once you have the money, and then do it as an lp. That's the first three things.

Wow, Beth, this is amazing. I so hope that people are listening, rewinding, listening to this again. Do you rewind on a podcast? I don't. You back clicked. But the specifics and the actual dollar amounts, you know, a lot to your point, a lot of, of people don't want to talk about money, right? And what you're investing and how you do it and just kind of like unveiling, you know, what you've done here is, is so helpful. And it's like you're answering my next question because, you know, starting off as an lp, that makes a lot of sense. You can see how other people do it. But then how do you vet the sponsor? I love that answer of call my investors who no longer invest with me as a broker. What I tell people is, you know, look at any of the sales that I've done in my career and ask me for the owner's information on any of them. Because if I, if you ask me for a reference, what am I going to do? Give you someone who's going to say I did a horrible job. Look at any sale we did. You tell me who you want to speak to and I'll make the introduction. Right. So I, I, I really like the specifics on that. So at what point did you say, okay, I'm ready, I've done, you know, you said seven or eight LP investments. You know, at what point do you make the step from LP to gp and you know, or are there some people who, they're probably better suited to just stay LPs?

I think there are people that are better suited to stay LPs. Mine came with a life change. So I was at Terra Nova 18 years. I started in the, the rookie training department and then became the president of the company. And I was the president the last six years I was there. But I was a, I became a single mom, My son was 4. I was working 80 hours a week. My nanny was raising my son. And I'm like, I didn't have a child at the age of 40 to have my nanny raising my son. So I left this company that I helped build from 11 people when I joined it to 130 people. And I left the guy who gave me the 50,000, you know, co signed the 50,000. It was a hard work divorce, but I had to do it for my son because that's not the mom I wanted to be. So when I left and said, I don't know what I'm going to do, all I know is I'm going to be a room mom and a T ball coach for the first six months. And I just took six months off. But I said, I'm going to start buying on my own account. I'm ready. I've lp'd seven times. I think I can do this. I mean I was the one writing the investor letters. I was definitely the one leasing all of the deals, but I wasn't the one getting the mortgages. I was finding some deals, but I wasn't the one signing on the mortgage and all of that. And that's much harder. When I first did my first mortgage and I was like this is scary. But that's when I said I found a deal that I had brought to my former partner when I was still at the company. And he said, that's too small for us. I'm not interested. And then nine months later, the deal was still available. And I really believed in the deal. It was a 1.77 acre piece. We, my, my goal was to do two ground lease restaurants. We end up doing a ground lease with a Walgreens, you know, killer credit. And then the Walgreens fee developer wanted to buy it. So in 18 months I raised, the deal was 1.2 million. My goal was to go to 10 friends and get 100 grand each. I think I raised 600 grand. I got a mortgage for 400, by the way. I went to my three best girlfriends who were all in the business. One of them repped Costco, TJ Maxx, and Home Depot. Three best girlfriends. And they all said, no, no, no, we're not doing that. All of them. And then they all jumped in. After I got four other guys who came in and said, yes, we'll do it. And then my three girlfriends came. It was, it was a testament to the psyche of women and the fear and the risk. So we made 399% on that deal, on our money. And then all those guys, all those people went into the next deal that I bought. Not a 1031. I didn't know about 1031s. So we all paid taxes. And then maybe a year later, the timing wouldn't have worked anyway. We found a shopping center and most of those people that, that were in that first deal then went into my second deal. We still own that deal today. We bought it for 11 million. It's worth 30 today. Wow. Wow.

So, Beth, when you say that I didn't know about the financing and all these like, did you just figure it out on your own or did you ask around for help? How there's probably people listening right now are thinking, okay, I know this piece of the transaction, but I don't know how to pull it all together together.

So I knew I could create the value because I know I'm a leasing rock star. So I knew and I knew the market and I knew the supply and demand. So I knew that the real estate was underpriced. So that's obviously you want to buy. So I knew that and I said, I'll figure out the leasing, the mortgage thing. I hired a mortgage broker. Like, you know, I, I don't know about mortgages. It would be like, if I sold my house today, I'd hire a residential realtor. You know, you hire the experts. So I hired a mortgage broker, and they helped me find the mortgage when I was going out to raise the funds. I didn't know how to put the package together. I had never done that piece. I had done the market study for the leasing, but I had never done all the. I never done an Argus. I didn't even know, you know, I knew what Argus was, but I didn't know how to do it. I hired, I paid someone $5,000 to do the Argus and the package, to send it out to my equity partners to raise that 600,000.

And how did you know how to structure the deal? Like, what was it in it for the investors?

Because of the other. The seven LPs. So I knew about prefs and promotes because I was an LP seven times and we did prefs and promotes. So I just kind of did that. I, you know, I, I worked with the guy who did the Argus and I said, okay, if we do a pref and if we do a promote, you know, we just, you know how you could just play around with those numbers until, like, okay, I think people will give me money, you know, if I give them a 6% pref and then I take a promote of 2080 or whatever it was at the time. You just play around with those numbers.

And. Yeah, and you, you, as you've been doing this whole show, went in, already went into the specifics, but when, when investors who were thinking about, you know, going and doing GP and raising LP capital, like, what is that? Right? Mix. And, you know, also you hear that the GP should have some meaningful skin in the game. And so what, what does that all look like where, you know, it's fair for everybody, where you're feeling like you're compensated for your efforts? I mean, are you getting fees? Like, you're also the broker, so are you getting paid when you lease space? I mean, if it's not you, you'd be paying enough. Another leasing broker to do it. So, like, how do you, how do you keep it fair for everybody where everybody's interests are aligned and, you know, both sides win?

So my philosophy is, when we win, we all win together. So I'm not a fee. I don't do a lot of fees. So I don't take an acquisition fee. If, if, if we sell the deal and I hire a broker to sell it because I think that their list is better because they're investment sale brokers, and I'm not. Then the partnership will pay for that. That person's commission. But I don't take a fee on disposition. I do take a leasing fee, and I do take a property management fee. I don't take a developer fee. I. If I hire a construction manager because we're building a Starbucks strip center, then the partnership pays the CM fee for a project manager. They don't pay me. So I am not. I'm not big on fees because when. Because I am. I've been an LP now since those original seven. I have probably been an LP 20 other times with other people's deals. The first thing I ask are, what are the fees? So I, I don't like it when there's the guarantee fee, the asset manager fee, the. And I understand there's. There's a lot of companies do a lot of fees and, and they have big overhead that they've got to pay for. And I've had, I've had partners say you should charge more fees so that you can hire an acquisitions person, because we want you to bring us more deals, because that's the hardest part in this whole game is finding the deals. But I don't want to do that. So. And I want to be able to say, look, and then as far as prefs and promotes, so, you know, years ago, before the interest rates went up crazily, I would do 5% pref. Well, you can't do a 5% prep today because people could keep their money in the bank and earn 5% and have. Have, you know, a heck of a lot more safety. So the last deal that I did, I think it was a 7% pref. But I've seen people do 8% prefs. I've all. And I'm pretty much I. Most of my deals are 2080, meaning if we sell or refinance, and everyone's gotten all of their equity back, plus the pref. That my piece, my vigilant, my bonus for putting it all together is 20%. I've seen people today do 50. And I have. I, I had someone who sent me a deal and they said it's a 50, 50 promote, meaning if, you know, at the end of the deal I get 50, the, the sponsor gets 50, and I'm like, I'm not gonna. You know, as an lp, I think that's kind of piggish. But, you know, when they're over subscribing because they have so many people that want to invest, good for them.

So, Beth, I want to go back to something you were saying. About I don't want to bring on an acquisitions person. So you own and operate four shopping centers now worth $75 million. What does that team look like? And are you just happy kind of with it's you. So you just, you're happy growing at the pace you are. You don't want to own you know, 30 shopping centers. Right.

So I sold three in the last 18 months. Two were to 1031 exchange people who overpaid. I wouldn't have sold those deals but you know, you buy low and sell high and when you get ridiculous offers. So we sold two. The other one was more of a power center. I don't really believe in power centers anymore. We bought a 75,000 square foot on non grocery anchored center and I brought in an Aldi. So I bought it at an 8 and 3, 4 cap rate and we sold it for a 61 great deal. But it had an empty Michaels forever. And I said the minute I fill this Michaels I'm. We're selling because it just Power centers are really difficult. So I like the little 30, 40, 50,000 square foot multi tenant strip centers. But so, so what happens James is I and all my four shopping centers are within 10 minutes of my house. So I, I buy geographic and I know the markets really well. So I have five centers I want to buy. They're on my list and I will wear these people down. I just, I am now a 17% partner in a deal. So I had Boardwalk and Park Place and the guy right in the middle, I met him when he was 76. He's 90 and a year ago I was able to start buying out some of his partners and now I'm up to 17% and we're about to do a $2 million renovation on it. And he brought me in as a CO GP and he's 90.

Yeah.

And he has five 60 to 70 year old kids who they don't want to run it. They're very happy that I'm in place but it has taken me 14 years to get there. The first deal we did was a renewal of a month to month urgent care and I raised the value of the shopping center a million dollars in five minutes. And he turned to me and he goes why did I wait 14 years to bring you on?

Yeah, I think that control and you know sometimes when you've had that existing partnership and what if things don't go well? But I mean clearly you've proven and no doubt that value add. So Beth, this has been incredible. I'm so glad we had you back on the show and with only a couple, couple minutes left, what I'd love to hear first of all, is how does our audience connect with you, benefit from all this information? I know you're so generous with the content you put out. So that's, that's question number one. And the follow up is like, I want to hear, who else are you listening to? I mean, you, you seem to me, I know you're a lifelong learner, so where are you going to continue to. To grow?

So they can find me on all platforms, but the platform in the last year and a half that I've really embraced is Twitter. There's a master's program going on there in commercial real estate. It's amazing, especially in investing and LPs and GPs. So I highly recommend everyone that's listening go to Twitter and follow real estate Twitter. So Retwit R E T W I T. I'm a member of that. The, the education. I learn every day on that platform. And I wasn't, I've. I haven't been on it. I've been on social media for about eight years and I just got on Twitter a year and a half ago. It, it. And it's pretty, pretty much A. I'm 80% there. If you see anything that's posted on the other sites, like LinkedIn, it's reposts of things I've done on Twitter. Wow.

Okay.

So.

So that I highly recommend Retwit, you said.

Yeah. So go to Twitter. It's. Or X, I guess it's called.

Yes.

And then who do I follow? So, so I'm 63. I'm, you know, starting the sunset. Like, I'm like, I'm giving back. Trying to get women to invest. I don't want to buy 30 shopping centers. Health is super important for me. And so Jesse Itzler, who do you know Jesse.

Love that guy. Yeah. Love his book. Training. What was it? Training with Seal.

Living with a Seal.

Living with a Seal. Yeah.

I did an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial boot camp with him and with him and 10 other people. And it was 75% health, like fitness and nutrition and 25 business, which is perfect for me. So I love Jesse. I love Gary Vaynerchuk, you know, who I've been following for probably 20, you know, probably 15 years.

Have you met him? Have you gone to his.

Okay, so my son. Very funny. My son was at the Deadpool in New York City at the Deadpool Wolverine movie. And he was at the, the world premiere and he ran into Gary and he said, oh, I think you know my mom, Beth Azor. And Gary says, of course. So he takes a picture and my son sends it to me. My son's 24. And he goes, he knew who you were. He knows who I am, but he knows who I am because of power of proximity. I've gone to his offices and spent, you know, they have this deep dive with. With Gary where you spend ten grand and you spend the day with him and his whole team. So I, the, the entrepreneurial thing with Jesse Itzler was 10 grand. You know, you. If you want to meet these people and they have these programs, that's how you meet them. Right? So. But I like also Alex Hormozi. I think he's someone that I know Rod and I like and listen to. But, yeah, those are the three folks right now. Sarah Blakely, who's married to Jesse, like, the two of them should have a comedy show. I keep telling them they need a Netflix show because they're so funny. So those are the three that I think I mostly follow and watch. You know, obviously I watch Rod, and he has always some good tips on real estate, but for me, right now, the focus is more on health than. And fitness, so that I can continue to do things that I want to do with Die with Zero. Because you got to be healthy, right?

Well, first things first, for sure. And Beth, I think you said earlier in the show, you know, is. Is important how much we love real estate. We're not saving lives. I. I tell that to my brother who. Who's. Who's a doctor, and he certainly is saving lives. So. But this, this was a tremendous amount of fun. Beth, thank you for everything you do for the community, especially the women, to inspire them. You know, I know you're going to be successful in helping get to at least that 10% and more. And so this has been phenomenal. So thank you so much for joining us today. And I know it's not a matter of if, it's when. I love bumping into. It's definitely at ICSC and all over the place. I know you're out there. So thank you again.

Thank you, James. Thanks for having me.

And thank you to all of you who are joining, especially I'm watching you who many of you who are here on the live stream and sticking with us. I saw our numbers were only going up. So, yes, if you're listening to this now on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Yes, you can also see us. We're streaming live right now on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and then we'll also put on the YouTube channel. So all of this you can find atchannel james nelson.com I built this site for you. This site is not about me. It's about how to help you be gain the insider's edge to real estate investing so you can outperform the market. So really appreciate your joining and sharing the word. Until next week, this is your host, James Nelson. Thank you. Again.

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