Creating Community with John Casmon

Welcome. This is the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing with James Nelson, the principal and head of Avis and Young's Tri State Investment Sales Group. In this program you'll learn game changing strategies to outperform the market. James will teach you how to source, execute and capitalize on the best real estate opportunities in New York and around the world. Now here's your host.

Welcome everyone to episode number 148 of the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. This is your host James Nelson. I'm principal and head of the Tri State Investment Sales at Avis and Young. Appreciate as always your support in if you have not subscribed yet, sharing this episode with others. That's how we get the word out there. Also my latest book the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing which you can find on Amazon or at Barnes and Nobles or wherever you get your books. We are getting incredible feedback on it so I really appreciate those who have already ordered put their reviews on Amazon in particular and sharing the episodes or the book information with your friends. Okay, so today I have with me John Kasman and he speaks about creating community and I had the chance to meet John with when I interviewed on his podcast and was happy to have him reciprocate and come on my show. John launched Kasman Capital Group to help busy professionals invest in real estate without taking on a second job. He has helped families invest in over 100 million in multifamily apartments to create passive income, reduce their tax obligations and foster generational wealth. John hosts the Multifamily Insights podcast. In addition, he is the co founder of the Midwest Real Estate Networking Summit. As a former marketing executive, John oversaw marketing campaign for General Motors, Pepsico and Miller Coors and he's going to talk about how he's applied some of those marketing campaigns to his real estate portfolio. He is located in Cincinnati, Ohio and he's helping everyday professionals in apartments in emerging and stable Midwest markets in select parts of the Southeast region. So you can find out more about john@kasmancapital.com and you can also check out his Multifamily Insights podcast. I'll have the link in the show notes@james nelson.com along with a lot of other helpful information to help you gain the Insider's edge to real estate investing. We'll have a brief word from our sponsor and we'll get right into that conversation with John Kassman.

A different approach to Putting our clients first Avis and Young's Tri State Investment Sales Group sells multifamily office retail development and specialty sales throughout the New York metro area. As experienced thought leaders in our industry, our 35 member group is available to help you make informed investment decisions by advising you on your current holdings or identifying new opportunities in the marketplace. Our one unified team is built on an industry unique platform which promotes unparalleled collaboration and teamwork. We share core values of hard work, integrity and expertise. We we put our clients first providing tailor made strategies to achieve superior results. Please Visit us at aytristateinvestmentsales.com and follow us on Twitter LinkedIn and Instagram amesnelsonnyc to learn more.

So now it's time for our investor spotlight. And with us today is Jon Kasman who is founder of the Castman Capital Group. John, thank you so much. Wonderful to see you.

Absolutely. Hey, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here today and you and I had a great interview not too long ago, so it's great to kind of come back and return the favor for your audience.

Absolutely. I was just going to say I love the reciprocation and I've been a fan of your podcast Multifamily Insights. So what's really cool is you've heard my story. I got to know you a little bit through doing that, but definitely wanted to dive in deeper for our audience here because I know you've got a great story to tell. So John, maybe just to help the audience out, maybe tell us, tell them a little bit about your background and maybe how you got into the business.

Yeah, so I come from corporate America. You know, I was in corporate marketing for 15 years. I did advertising and marketing for some of the largest brands in the world. Nike, Coors Light, Mountain Dew, just to name a few, Buick and some other brands too. But through that time frame, I became to realize that I couldn't really rely solely on a W2 job. In particular, I was at General Motors when we went through bankruptcy in 2008, 2009. Time frame and being there, not just seeing the anxiety, but feeling the anxiety in that building every single day, watching your leadership on the news and then seeing them in the hallways and just going through that emotionally for me was just. It was just draining. And I tried to figure out what else I could do. And the only thing that kept coming up was real estate. So I made a plan to start building and start investing in real estate. Didn't have much money back then, but I took the money I did have and saved it. And when I got married, my wife and I bought a property. We kept saving money. We bought another property, and that slowly started to help us build a portfolio. Um, you know, we did really well there, but we kept running out of our own money. So eventually we learned about working with other investors and raising money for deals. And to date, we've actually helped investors invest in over $120 million worth of apartment buildings. So that's what we do today. It's called apartment syndication, where we work with other investors to invest in real estate and get all the perks of owning real estate without any of the hassles that come from being a landlord.

That's awesome. And I love how you really took the initiative during those uncertain times, because, you know, a lot of people, maybe they're listening to this show now, they're in a situation where they don't control their own destiny. And, you know, sometimes your gut reaction is, you know, when you're fearful, just kind of keep your head down. And you kind of did the opposite. You said, okay, this is not working. I need to figure something out where not to put words in your mouth, but kind of control your own destiny. So I think that's pretty amazing that you figured that out. So now I do want to hear, though, because you got, you know, with that advertising background, and I know brand is something that. That's really important to you, and you've certainly cultivated a great one. So maybe I love to hear kind of some of those lessons that you learned either working for Nike, Kors, gm, that have kind of stuck with you today as you think about building your business.

Yeah. So, I mean, one of the first things I learned in marketing, and this was back in school, before I even got a real job in it. Right. But at the time, it was the four Ps. I've heard that since they've updated them and there's like 5 or 6ps now. But marketing really comes down to these four things, right? It's the product, it's the price, it's the placement and the promotion. I think a lot of times when people hear marketing or advertising, they just focus on promotion. And in reality, there's all four elements. So you have to have the product first and foremost. How good is the product? But the product itself, it doesn't necessarily have to be the best of the best. Sometimes you have an inferior product, but that just means that you have to price it accordingly. Right. So the price may be the thing that is driving value for other people. So what is the price point that you're doing it at the Placement, that's distribution. So if you, where are you buying this product at? Where is it available at? Is it easily accessible? Is it hard to get, you know, who are your retail outlets? If you know, depending on whatever the product is. And then class is the promotion. And that's going to be your marketing, your advertising. It's going to be, you know, any, literally promotions, sponsorships, anything like that. So the first thing when you talk about marketing is just understanding the collective of marketing from a business standpoint, not just a promotion side of it. So branding is really important because branding is the, the things that people say about you or your brand when you're not in the room. You know, a lot of times we think about advertising and again it's the promotion, it's what you say, it's the ads, it's the social media content. But branding isn't any of that. All those things help branding, but branding has nothing to do with that. Branding is what people think. You just said some of the brands, right? So Coors Light, Nike, Mountain Dew, whatever you feel about those words that he said, that's the brand. You know, if you think of Mountain Dew and you think, you know, mountain sports or X Games or skateboarding or energy, that's the brand, right? That's what they've done. But the ads, yes, they may convey some of those messages, but the brand is what you take away. Same thing with Nike, Coors, Lightning's other things. So when you are connecting with people, you have a personal brand. We all have a personal brand. It may be that's a stand up guy, you know, James will do what he says he's going to do, he'll take care of you. This guy knows marketing has a great background. Whatever people initially think about you, what they take away, what they say about you when you're not in the room, that is the brand. So it is important for everyone who's in business to cultivate a personal brand that allows them to put their best foot forward. So when people do come into contact with them, they know who you are, they know exactly how you help people and they know how they can benefit from working with you. And that really is the power of a personal brand has nothing to do with your social media posts, has nothing to do with your website. Yes, all those things can convey that message for you, but the output is about them knowing that what it is you do, who you are as a person or a company and how you can help them.

John, that was amazing. I've been doing this show now for 150 episodes. And, you know, marketing. And as you mentioned, because I think a lot of people think about just the promotion aspect, right. And as it relates to our listeners and thinking about building their portfolio, they might say, okay, how do I post more on social media so brokers can think of me when they're selling properties? Or if you're a broker, hey, what can I do to be more consistent and get more followers on LinkedIn or Instagram or wherever? And to your point, that's almost just the end result, right? Because there's so much more that goes into the core of that and the essence of brand. And I love that description of brand being what someone's saying when you're. When you're not in the room. So. And so my wheels are definitely spinning. I mean, I will tell you, I've had a little bit of help. I don't know if you've ever followed Donald Miller and Story Brief.

Yeah, absolutely. Love it.

I'm a big fan of his. And if this isn't just for me to sit here and plug my website@james nelson.com. well, why not? I just did it. But the point being is when you go there, it's not a bunch about, you know, James Nelson, number one broker, and it's not about me, it's about you. And so I think that kind of goes to the product and having the right content and hopefully, you know, people are listening, say, hey, James and John want to be helpful. They are doing this. They are taking time out of their day to be helpful to others. We're not looking for, like a direct, you know, return from that. And that's kind of, you know, that is the essence, Right. Of what we're doing here. So I love. And what you said about those four P's, and now that I'm like, right in the midst of this book launch and thinking about, all right, do I got the right product? Yes, I hope so. Is it, you know, is it priced well? Well, look, I mean, these books are all, you know, more or less in the same range, but placement. Yeah, I've got a good publisher to make sure that. Get it out in the right places and then, yes, how do. How do we let the world know about it? So it was just, I think that was super interesting to set the stage and, you know, some incredible brands that you've worked with and I mean, we could have a whole separate conversation. Shoe Dog, by the way, is one of my favorite books. So, yeah, so talk about this once. So your wife and you begin investing. So the time did you kind of think, all right, this is a side hustle? Or is this something like, were you still working at GM when you were doing that? And at what point did it get to like a critical mass where you said, look, we're ready, we can be self sustaining doing this. Right, so talk about that transition. And then I want to talk about at that point how you established your brand.

Yeah, I think it's really important to understand that in life we get, you know, we drive along the road and then we hit kind of that fork. Right. So the first fork in the road for me was heading into bankruptcy at gm. And like any wise person, if you're looking at a company and you're working there and, and you see the financials are not strong, you're going to start looking at your options or where else can I go? And you're going to interview at other places. And one of the things that became clear to me was I had unintentionally built a personal brand as an auto guy. I was a car guy. Everything on my resume, marketing wise since I left college was in the automotive industry. So I did like one year on some other things, but for the most part, and I was in Detroit. Well, pretty much all the jobs in Detroit are going to be automotive related. At that time. There was a couple other jobs that you could get into that were different, but that was a challenge that I had. So they didn't value my skills because I didn't have a track record in different industries. And they said, well, selling cars and driving, you know, doing marketing for cars is not the same as doing marketing for, say, pizza. And that was a challenge that I had to overcome. So as I looked at my resume and where I was, I realized that I needed to figure out how to adjust that to give me more flexibility as well as put my capital to work elsewhere. So I actually left Detroit in 2011. I moved to Chicago and I went to the agency side and at the agency is where I worked on some of the brands you mentioned. Nike, Coors, Light Mountain, doing these different brands. And part of that for me was I didn't want to be typecast or labeled as someone who could only work in one industry. Again, a lot of my peers at that time, that's exactly what happened to them. They were also interviewing for jobs. But when companies looked at them and saw the last 10 years they were in the automotive industry, well, the pizza companies and the CPG firms and the pharmacare companies, they're not looking to hire Somebody who has a skill set that they didn't feel translated. So for me, the first thing was go get some other experiences so no one can try to pigeonhole you into this one industry. The second thing was absolutely, I want to build my personal portfolio, my real estate portfolio on the side, so that I have more flexibility. So when we moved to Chicago, that's when we started investing in these properties. And the second inflection point came in 2016. We bought an eight unit property, first commercial property, but it took me six figures of capital to save to buy that property. And then I was getting ready to jump on that hamster wheel again to try to save another $100,000. And I just remember being really dejected. And right around the same time, um, the company I was working for, the agency also started to have some financial issues, and it also ended up going into bankruptcy. And I remember thinking that I'm on the right path, but this path is way too slow and I haven't solved the real problem that I sought out to to solve. The whole point of investing for me was to have enough flexibility where I wasn't going to be solely relying on this W2 job. I had additional income coming in, but the reality for me was is that if I couldn't earn money for my day job, we did not have enough passive income to cover all of our bills. And I had just had my second child. So we had to step back and say, there's got to be a better way of doing this. Coincidentally, I just hired a coach to help me really scale into multifamily to learn how to raise capital. And I was able to really go full throttle and say, you know what, this is the path we need to do. Um, we know real estate works. We know specifically multifamily works. If I can figure out how to raise capital, if I can figure out how to find and analyze good deals that work for other investors, then we can build a real business out of that. So that process really started around 2016 and 2019. I went full time in the business, and like I said today, we've invested in over $120 million worth of apartments with investors. But it took those different points where there was a hurdle, and I realized we have to overcome this hurdle in order for us to see success in growth. And it was really important for us to face that.

That's awesome. And I want to get to that and the whole arc. But let's. I want to go back to this eight family, so. And this was your first significant purchase you know, really putting your net worth on the line. How did you know this was a good opportunity? And then, you know, were you able to get your arms around it, learn how to operate it, and, you know, really get the asset performing to get to the point where you said, okay, I figured this out. I need to, you know, I want to go do this again. And what's stopping me is really, you know, just having the capital to do it. But I want to, I want to first understand how you kind of dove in with two feet first and then how you were able to get your arms around this asset and learn how to operate it so quickly.

Yeah, I mean, well, we started with smaller properties, right? So I started with the two unit, then we bought a three unit property. Those both did really well. And the two unit was like, okay, I'm going to live in one unit, rent out the other. So I house hacked it. And that worked well enough for me to feel some level of confidence. But that three unit was actually the scary one because that was the first pure rental property. If, like, the numbers didn't work, then I was screwed, right? So I wanted that property to pay for itself and it just had to work. And it did. It worked really well there. So from there, the eight unit, I had, you know, a lot of confidence at that point. Yes, it was commercial and there were other things that I didn't have. But the first thing was I. I kind of knew the path I wanted to go down. I didn't know it was going to be large apartment, syndication, but I wanted to start working with other investors because from the two unit to the three unit, that was all our capital, all the money we saved. So with the eight unit, I said, okay, we can do this one more time, but I really am going to have to start work with other people. Otherwise it's going to be another year, year and a half before I can buy a property. We're looking at a bunch of properties. I was attending a lot of events and I was networking my butt off. So I felt like from a knowledge standpoint, I was pretty comfortable. And I was even getting more comfortable from a network standpoint. We had some deal flow. I just didn't have the capital. So what happened is I would just stop looking at deals until I had money in my bank account. And what I realized is that, well, if I could figure out other ways to finance these deals, then I could constantly look for deals and then I can buy more and grow more. If I'm willing to give up a little bit of the equity in these deals. So that was the mindset. My goal was I want to buy property and give up half of the equity to someone else. So instead of me bringing $150,000 to the table, I want to bring 75 and let someone else bring 75. And that way I can grow twice as fast. That was my logic at that time. So with the eight unit, I was working with a commercial broker. He gave me a list of properties. 80% of them I just xed out right away based on location alone. The 20% that I was good with, the location we went through numbers just didn't work. I remember I had a big whiteboard in my office at the time. And yet I knew a little bit about commercial. I've read a ton of books, so I was book smart, but didn't really have the track record. I only have 5 units, but on the 8 unit I remember writing out very specific things. And this is really important if anyone, you know, if you want to roll up your sleeves and learn, you know, one on one style. I wrote down every single property that of the 20% that were I was considering, I wrote down the address, I wrote down the submarket or the neighborhood, I wrote down the asking price, I wrote down the cap rate, I wrote down the noi, and I wrote down the GRM or gross rent multiplier. I wrote of them down on a big whiteboard and I started to look for clues and anything that jumped out to me. And I remember there was one property where the GRM was higher than all the rest of the properties. And I remember looking at the cap rate and the cap rate was a little bit higher, But I thought the neighborhoods were all comparable. So I went back to the list and I talked to the broker and we had a conversation and he actually, I didn't know that much about that neighborhood at the time, but the numbers just looked fine. And I remember he called it out and said, hey, you know, just taking a look at this one here. I said, it's funny you say that. I was just looking at the numbers. I am a little more interested in that, but I haven't even been over there before. Why don't we drive and take a look? I went over there, I took a look at the property. It was a solid brick building. It was eight units kind of on the, on a, on a corner. So it was like, you know, four units kind of two, two up, two down on this side and then four units, two up, two down on this side of the property. And I just Ran the numbers again. I said, you know what? I think this thing can work and work really well for us. So we ended up getting under contract to buying it. I will tell you, we learned a lot of lessons, though. So, first lessons, and part of this was intentional because I didn't have experience working with a property management company before, and because it was eight units, because it was a commercial deal, the lender really forced us to work with the property management company instead of self managing, which I wanted to do anyway, because I knew my real goal was to manage larger properties. So I wanted some experience managing a property management company. I learned a lot of lessons. First of all, how to hire the right management company. You know, we made a mistake there. They were a fine company, but they were not the right company for that property. The second thing that we learned along that way, when it comes to managing the property, we learned that we really need to have all of our capital for our business plan upfront. We initially thought that we could pay for the renovations through cash flow. And what ended up happening is we ran into different issues with delinquency and trying to collect rents where we never actually had all the capital we needed to make the renovations we wanted to do. So instead of being able to push our business plan as aggressively as we wanted, we ended up really just trying to, you know, keep the thing afloat and keep the thing rented. So we're doing much, you know, more modest renovations than what we had originally planned for. And then a third and final thing that we learned is sometimes, you know, you just make some mistakes. And the great thing about multifamily is if you buy it right, it can be forgiving. And we like the property. There was still a lot of upside potential in that property, but the reality is, is that it served its purpose for us, which was really learning. So we ended up selling that thing. I won't say prematurely, but definitely sooner than we expected as we started to scale into larger assets.

That's fantastic. And I really appreciate you going through the specifics on that and the lessons learned. So. So talk about the partner. So you did bring in a 50% partner. You also referenced a mentor at some point and a bunch of network. How did you begin? How did you find your first investor and start to cultivate an investor base?

Yeah, so the eight unit, you know, we did that one by ourselves, but as we scaled from there, the rest of the deals, we did work with partners, and the mentor was really, you know, combination of luck. But also there's this notion that you Know when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And right around that same time, you know, I was committed to taking this business to another level. And I was just looking to network with people in different cities, in particular in Cincinnati. Cincinnati is a market that I was going to be moving to my wife's from here, and I wanted to meet with other Cincinnati investors. And I was on bigger pockets. And again, I was very intentional about trying to meet other investors in this market. I credit a lot of the success I had in Chicago to networking to build relationships with people, to being able to talk to people and pick their brains and get information that helped guide me along the way. So I was looking to do the same thing. When I entered into the Cincinnati market, and it was over the holidays, I reached out to some folks and there was a guy that, you know, everyone on BiggerPockets told me I should talk to. So I said, all right, great. And I reached out to him and I said, hey, you know, I made this post and they told me I should talk to you. And he was like, yeah, let's grab lunch when you're in town. So we sat down, we had lunch. He told me that he recently started this coaching program. And for me, I thought it was a really great opportunity because when I looked at what I was missing and needed, I just wanted someone in my corner. You know, I had never done it before, and yes, I was confident and I could add all the book knowledge and I was getting this real world experience on my 8 unit. But it was. It would be helpful to have someone who actually has gone through this process and has raised money because I had never raised a dollar before that. So I learned from him. And having that coach or that mentor, and that was really helpful in having somebody help guide you and create kind of a blueprint. But really those investors that came from my network, you know, my first investors were some friends and family and then folks who were, you know, adjacent to my friends and family. I started a meetup group. I started my podcast. So a lot of the people who invested with me early on were folks that I connected with through those different platforms. But my largest investor starting out was my brother in law. So that was very helpful. And I would say too, sometimes there's this notion that, oh, if you work with friends and family, it doesn't get the same respect, I guess, but that's the hardest person, right, to. To get to work with you. And there's fear on both sides, right, because you don't want to ruin a relationship. And there's all those different things. And for me, I wasn't going to approach family and friends if I wasn't confident what I was doing right. And I think that is a really important thing for everyone to understand is that you really have to believe in what you're doing and believe that you are setting yourself up for success by surrounding yourself with the right people and the right team if you are going to do this. Because if you're scared of losing someone's money, you should never take a dollar, period. Like, if you're not comfortable taking money from your friends and family, but you're comfortable taking money from strangers or people you don't have real relationships with, that says something about you, right?

So John, I'm smiling because this is, I mean you are so right on with this that you know, again, it's like, you know, somehow you got a leg up. But no, no, it's, it's. No, you had to be all the more certain, right? Because you know, and not that it's okay to lose money for strangers, but it says, you know, hey you, you are ready, you are confident this is going to work. And you know, again, as you build that network, you know, I would imagine referrals that that's probably been your best source. So you do a great deal and someone finds out and then that's how you grow. But if, yeah, you really have to, I say put yourself in your investor's shoes, right? Really, you know, look out for them, always do right by them. So really appreciate your sharing. Sharing that. Now the. You are the co founder of the Midwest Real Estate Networking Summit. So is that the meetup and what you were doing, did that kind of all culminate together with this multi family club? Maybe you could talk a little bit about what you're doing there.

Yeah, the Midwest Real Estate Networking Summit, that's a conference that we host. It's going to be in Chicago May 6th and 7th. And that event really started because we didn't have this sort of event in the Midwest. I would go and travel in other places and you'd find these amazing conferences with these speakers and people are growing their business and doing deals together. And in Chicago all we got were the, you know, HGTV celebrities to come in and try to sell you something. And by the way, they never came. But you would see them, you know, they're at some hotel and they try to pitch you on this three day thing and it'd be like, you know, $35,000. And I'm not knocking that but we just felt like there was nothing that was really educational. Everything was a pitch, even the RIA stuff. I go to a local RIA and you get in the room and somebody's trying to sell you something for $10,000. But for today only, it's only $400. It's like, it's just a CD, like literally it's a CD for taxes. So we just felt like something that was, no bs, just a straightforward education based platform was really needed. And it needed to be more than a meetup. Because the thing with meetups that I love is that, hey, it's free and you can show up and you know, most people come, you know, when it's convenient. But with the conference, the people who come to conferences are committed. And that's really big when you're looking for partners and you're looking for people to grow with. You know, you meet someone at a meetup, you reach out to them, they don't get back to you, they change their mind. They're not even looking at real estate anymore. That can get frustrating. But when you go to a conference, I mean these are people who A, paid for a ticket, B, blocked a weekend multiple days to be there, and then C, sometimes travel. So they also had to spend money on, you know, food and hotels and transportation. These people are committed to growing their real estate portfolio. So it's really big. And we started with the meetup, but it ultimately came into this conference. We could create an elevated experience to bring like minded people together. And the thing with this event is it is focused on networking. So it's intentional. We have many masterminds, we have breakout sessions. Our goal is to connect you with the people who can help you take your business to the next level. And that's exactly what happened to me at my very first like real, real estate conference. I connected with guys that we did our very first large apartment syndication deal with. And that wouldn't have happened if I wasn't at an event like that.

John, I, I love what you've done here and because there wasn't a conference that was, you know, really delivering the value. So you said, look, we'll just create our own conference. So I, I think that is absolutely fantastic. I, I also the fact that the people who are coming are committed, they're serious and that you're really creating this network. So really impressive. So how many people show up to this? And are you speaking? Do you have like a whole list of panelists? Like what, what, what, what do one of these conferences entail?

Yeah, we'll have between 300 and 400 attendees. We have a group of speakers. I will be one of the speakers. Our headliners this year we've got Jay Papasan, who is one of the authors of the One Thing, so that very popular, number one bestselling book, you know, New York Times and bestseller. Like every bestseller list you could think of is the number one bestseller. But the One Thing very popular book. Jay Papasan is going to be there. Ray Higdon is another, another author of network Marketing for Social media. So he's going to be there. We've got a handful of speakers. We got over 20 speakers, 25 speakers who are going to be there. Many of the multifamily space, some all over. It's not just multifamily, though. This is, this is for real estate investors. If you want to get into flipping, if you want to get into the private lending space. We do cover a lot of different topics, but do primarily talk about, you know, multifamily, small multifamily. And the goal, of course, is how to leverage real estate to reach your financial goals and more directly who you need to talk to and how do you network and how do you build the connections. And, you know, for me, I've been. I don't know if it's luck because I'm not a natural networker. You know, I'm not shy. But on the same note, if you put me in a room with a bunch of strangers, like, I'm probably going to stand with myself for at least 20 minutes and maybe start slowly making my way towards either the, you know, the buffet or the bar or the exit door, you know, depending on how it goes in those 20 minutes. So I'm not necessarily the natural networker. So this event is really tailored for the person like me. You know, it's going to make it easy to network. We're going to help you figure out who are the type of people you want to meet. We're going to do a lot of pre networking. So we've got an app where you can connect with people even before you get to the event. You know, if you're telling me you're interested in multifamily investing, I'm going to sit you at a table with other people who are interested in multifamily investing and have, have more of an experienced operator at that table to help talk to you. So we are really curating this experience so that even for that shyer person, more of that introverted person, they can get a great experience as Opposed to only that person who knows how to work a room. So that, for me is really the key of it is how do we make this easy for people to have success, as opposed to you pay your money for a ticket, you go to this great event, but you come back home and you're like, yeah, I didn't meet anybody who could change my business. So. And that's really what we want to do. I mean, for you, I don't know about you, but when I go to these events, I'm usually looking to make one or two connections that I can build on. It can help us take our business to the next level. I love the speakers. It's great information, but for me, at this point in my career, I'm really looking at connections and relationships, and that's what I hope to get out of every event I attend.

Yeah, no, no doubt. And I love how you've curated it. So it's not just people showing up and kind of standing around listening to speakers that you really have organized it so people can go there and engage. So that's. That's fantastic to hear. So tell me a little bit about. So, so you said that part of your business is helping other investors achieve success. So. And obviously that the value that you're sharing through your podcast, no doubt this conference, but are you acting as a coach yourself? Are you. When you say you're helping others invest or those others who have actually invested in your deals, maybe talk a little bit more about that piece because you said that you had helped other investors participate in. I think you said $120 million of transactions. So just wanted to hear what that all consisted of.

Yeah, there are two ways we help investors. So the first is going to be on the passive side. So investing with us, and that's what you're referencing, where we've helped in people, we've helped investors get into over $120 million worth of real estate. Those are deals that we're general partners in. So those are our deals. They've invested passively with us to receive those benefits. We do work with active investors as well, though, and that is going to be on the coaching side. So we have a lot of free information from our website. You know, we do blog posts, we do social media, obviously we have our podcast, but then we also have our paid events. So the conference, which I mentioned earlier, but then coaching. So if they want one on one coaching, they want a blueprint, they want a plan, they want the templates. You want the deal analyzer, you want all These different things to learn how to raise capital, how to find these deals. We do have a program to help people do that. So for us, it comes down to what are you looking to do? You know, if you're looking to invest in multifamily, we can help you one of two ways. We can help you with passive investment opportunities, or we can help you through coaching and education. And we really let people kind of, you know, select their own path based on what results they're looking for. But we see ourselves as a guide or as a resource. I mean, you mentioned the story brand before, and it's just one of the principles is that, you know, you are not the hero of your own story. You know, you are the guide, and it's the same thing we think about. So we are not, you know, the. The hero here. Castro Capital doesn't come in and solve the day, solve the problems. Right. We come in and we're going to help guide you. If you want to invest passively, great. You can join us on some of the deals that we have, or I'm happy to teach you, you know, what to look for in deals. We have a lot of information and content available for that if you're looking to raise your own money and control your own deals. But maybe you're like I was when I started off, and I had a sense of what I was doing, but I just didn't know, you know, how to put it together. I hadn't done it yet before, or maybe I didn't have the credibility to go out there and say I've done it. We have a program to help you do that. We can teach you that we can either partner with you on those things so we can help you and guide you along that pathway as well. So we help investors in one of those two ways, and it's just a great way to be of value to them, but also let them kind of select where we fit into kind of their approach.

Wonderful to hear. And I'm looking at your site on kasmancapital.com and yes, I mean, there's a lot of resources there, whether it's the podcast, the coaching, investing, sample deals. So you have a lot going on, which is impressive. I know how much it takes to pull this all together, so really wonderful to hear. So, John, with just a couple minutes left, curious what, what advice you would give to someone looking to start off. Maybe they've never invested before. What do you typically say to them.

As a passive investor?

Let's say, well, let's do both. Let's say as a passive investor and then someone who's looking to make this a full time and become a general partner and operator.

I had a call today with an attorney that I've known for a few years and she's a bit risk averse as the way she described it to me. But we've known each other and she's looking to invest. And one of the things that I told her is first of all, understand your options. Because I don't want you to just throw money at something and you know, maybe you're not pleased with it. A lot of times people focus on what, how much can I make, right? What's the returns, how much can I make? And those are great questions, but I think it helps to understand what is your risk profile. And based on your risk profile, that should indicate the kind of deals you should be looking at. But also what are your goals? If your goal is to beat the stock market, is your goal to diversify from the stock market? Are you investing for a 10, 15, 20 year time horizon? Are you looking to retire in five years? Just make sure your investing strategy matches what your real goals are. And then from there I would say get to know the operator, get to know the people that you're looking to invest with, understand the way they think and find out whether or not their risk tolerance matches your risk tolerance. And then finally I want to get to know how they've done, you know, how are their deals, what's their track record, you know, can they demonstrate the ability to execute suit what you're looking to do. Those are really important things that you want to check off before you invest with someone. The market's important, the deal is important. But again, those are things where if you have the right operator, they should be able to explain, you know, why they like this market or why they like certain deals. And you should just make sure that that matches kind of your own risk profile. If you are looking to run your own deals, first of all, I would say congratulations, that's great. But let's also not let blind hubris get in the way of making some major mistakes, particularly if you're working with other investors. If you're doing your own thing by yourself, with your own money bombings, have at it. Good luck. But if you're working with other people, I think you owe it to them to make sure you're doing everything you can to protect their capital. And part of that is aligning the right team, getting the right people together who have the experience and the track record to help you where maybe you lack some of that. That could be a property manager, mentor, coaches, partners. But make sure there are people on the team that have seen a thing or two and can look at it and be close enough to the deal to point out where things are, may go awry or issues that you may want to watch out for. You want to have that experience on the team. Lenders want to have that experience on the team. Investors absolutely want to have that experience on the team. So getting that partner coaching, you know, again, property managers, get those people on the team, make sure they have a vested interest in your success, but also make sure that they're going to be not just, you know, on a piece of paper saying they're, you know, there and helping you, but like they're actually involved in the deal. And some of the day to day, not literally every day, but you want to be able to talk to them and say, hey, here's something that's going on, or I'm having a hard time with collections or this is going on. What do you think? How should I handle it? You want someone who can truly advise you and help you navigate that situation. So just make sure you're not doing this by yourself. This is a team sport. Everyone I know who is in this sport is successful. They have people they trust and they work with who are more than capable of doing their part. And you want to make sure you're assembling the right team for yourself.

John, I'm smiling because this is like right out of my, you know, the book and I just wrote and kind of the first piece and it's, you know, I've told the story several times. Of course, my audience probably knows this, but, you know, the first episode that I ever podcast that I ever did was with Bruce Ratner, this prolific developer. And, you know, I kept asking, you know, how did you do it? How did you, you know, built over 50 projects in New York. And he said, it's about the people, it's about the team. And I went back and counted. He had mentioned the word people OR team over 50 times in an hour long interview. And it was very similar with Rick Clark, who was the CEO of Brookfield, the largest property owner in the world. You know, I kept asking, well, Rick, what did you do? And it was always, no, it's about the people and the team and having the right people. So that's really good advice. And I would just add, you know, if you're thinking LP gp, you got to also be really realistic about what your time you Know, and, And do you have the ability to focus and the skill set? Because it's a very different proposition when you're actually, you know, running and doing all the day to day. So. So, John, this has been phenomenal. I've got one last question for you, which is the title of this podcast, which is the title of my book, also is the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. Just curious what that means to you. And what would you say your inside edge is?

Consistency. And when I say consistency, it's about being patient with the results, but aggressive with the actions. There's a video I just watched yesterday, and it was. It was talking about how hard it is to grind and put in the work every day and not see the results. And so many people, they put in the work, but they're not seeing the results, so they end up giving up. And consistency, showing up, up, that's key. That's key for everything in life. But it's super important for real estate investing, particularly in multifamily or commercial real estate, because it takes time. It takes time to build your confidence, it takes time to build your credibility. It takes time to build your connections. It takes time for that first big deal to come through. And if you're showing up every day, one, you're going to get better and better, but two, you can start to adjust a little bit now you know what's not working, you know, and this is like anything. If you're playing sports, if you're an athlete, if you're working out now, if you're showing up every day, well, now you can start to understand, well, okay, I'm here. So what's not working? What do I need to tweak today? What do I need to adjust today to see different results? Now, you can take that feedback and that coaching and you can get much better and see better results because you're showing up. If I tell you you're trying to lose weight, and I tell you, okay, well, hey, eat right, go to the gym. If you don't go to. If you go to the gym once a week, it doesn't. Like, there's nothing else I could tell. I'll give you every exercise in the world. It won't matter, right? It won't matter. You're not showing up enough. That's the problem. So you got to show up, you got to be consistent. And then you have to understand what those little small changes are that can help you see results. But for the most part, 80% of the people who are struggling, who are not seeing the results that they want. They're just simply not putting in enough effort. And once you start putting in enough effort, then you can make the tweaks to that effort to see the results that you're looking for. But you got to show up first. And once a week is not showing up, that's just not enough.

Love it. I'm thinking James Clear atomic habits.

Absolutely.

Gary Vee like all these things that just, you know, putting in, putting in the work. So you said consistency, consistency. Patient with the results, but aggressive with the actions. Is that what you said?

Yes.

Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. Well, John, this has been fantastic. Really appreciate your taking the time and everything you're doing. And is Kasman Capital, is that that that's the best place to find out about what you're doing and about your upcoming conference and everything?

Yeah. If you want to, if you want to check out that sample deal you mentioned, kasmancapital.com sampledeal everything else is on the website at Kasman Capital. Our link to the conference will be on the website as well. So just go to kasmancapital.com and that'll kind of steer you in the direction to get more information.

Awesome. Well, John, thank you again for joining us today. This has been a lot of fun.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I appreciate the conversation.

Wonderful. And thank you everyone, as always, for listening. If you have not done so already, definitely connect with me at James Nelson NYC on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, and if you go to James Nelson.com, that is where you can find the show notes for this episode, along with some helpful video content and of course, where you can also order my book. And for those of you who have done so already, really appreciate it. The feedback has been amazing. And what's most important is that I really feel that it's helping you all become the most successful investors possible. So until next week, this is your host, James Nelson.

Thank you for listening to the insider's edge to real estate investing. We appreciate your subscribing and sharing with your friends. If you haven't already, please connect with James at James Nelson NYC on LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter. Please also also visit jamesnelson.com where you can find the show notes and other episodes along with an exclusive video series and other helpful resources so you can gain the insider's edge to real estate investing. Until next week.