Education x Action = Results with Gino and Julia Barbaro

Welcome. This is the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing with James Nelson, the principal and head of Avis and Young's Tri State Investment Sales Group. In this program you'll learn game changing strategies to outperform the market. James will teach you how to source, execute and capitalize on the best real estate opportunities in New York and around the world. Now here's your host.

Welcome everyone to the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. This is your host, James Nelson. I'm principal and head of Tri State Investment Sales at Davis and Young for episode number 147. Thank you to all of you who have already ordered the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing, the book, and also those who have mentioned it to a friend or many of you have been kind enough to introduce me to a real estate program. I've been on the speaking tour as of late. I've had some incredible conversations, especially at some of the local schools and master's programs. I've already traveled to Cornell and Columbia, nyu. I've got Wharton on the schedule as well. So if there's a real estate program that you're involved with, not just masters, some of the undergraduate programs too have real estate clubs. I'm happy to speak to them about the book. So if you have not connected with me on that, you can on LinkedIn at James Nelson NYC and happy to set something up. Okay, so for today's show I have Gino and his wife Julia Barbero on with me and I think this is a first having a husband and wife team and you'll see why soon. Gino is a co founder of Jake and Gino and the Rand family of companies, a vertically integrated real estate company that controls over 250 million of real estate assets. He is a best selling author of Wheelbarrow Profits and the Honeybee and and have created an educational company that focuses on multifamily entrepreneurs. He has co founded the Jake and Gino community to teach others their three step framework, Buy Right, Finance Right and Manage Right and how to become multifamily entrepreneurs. Today he is joined, as I said, with Julia, his wife who's co host of the Julia and Gino podcast. Julia is a homeschooling Mother of six.

Wow.

And wife to Gino Barbara for 25 years. She's a certified life and marriage coach and runs Women of Wheelbarrow Profits and in the Jake and Gino community, Julia was inspired to become a certified life and marriage coach. After witnessing the power of coaching, she felt compelled to give back and motivate others to create a strong marriage and healthy family work balance, which she'll be talking about today and Julia's author of the Cannoli Exploded and other Children books that teach about decision making and different paths that we take in life. I had the pleasure of meeting both of them on Ryan Serhant's Mastermind events. I've since become a big fan of their work, so I'm sure you'll enjoy this episode. For more information you can find out about them at jake and gino.com you can also go to james nelson.com where you can find show notes for this episode and a lot more helpful information out there to make you the best investor possible and give you the insider's edge. We're going to have a brief word from our sponsor and we'll get right into that interview with Gino and Julia Barbero.

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Welcome everybody to the show. I have a real treat for you today. We have both Julia and Gino Barbero, who are founders of Jake and Gino the Education and Action Results Program, and I had the true pleasure to meet them at a conference that our mutual friend Ryan Serhant hosted. They're doing incredible things. They've got a great show called Julia and Gino Show. It's a great podcast and they talk about all types of exciting things, not just real estate, but how to best serve families as well as what they're doing with their kids homeschooling. We've got a lot to cover today, so thank you so much for joining us.

James. Thanks for having us on and I just want to see where this goes. Hopefully by the end of the show I will not lose anything to the viewers because they're probably going to say how did this woman stay married to this guy for 24 years? He's a crazy dude, he's all over the place. But I think, you know, when we talk about business and family, I think it's important. I think a business runs very similar to what a family runs. As far as having core values, as far as having the mission statement, as far as getting together on the same page and working together and doing stuff you love. That's what I love about our relationship. We've gone through a lot of great times and a lot of not so great times. And for instance, I said to Julia, hey, we're going out to Ryan Sirhant in January. Do you want to come? I thought she'd be excited. And she's like, january, New York cold? I don't think so. But she sucked it up and she. She came out with me. And that's what, that's a great marriage is all about, doing things you don't want to do for your spouse.

James, I hear it. Well, it was, it was definitely cold outside, but I know there's a lot of energy in that room. And I kind of walked into it all. And Ryan had the improv workshop going for you all and it was. I got a chance to speak to your group and, you know, share some of the thoughts from my book. And I know, you know, we've been able to trade some ideas and go back and forth since, so. So this is fantastic. I'd love to hear maybe a little bit about each of your stories, you know, maybe wherever you want to start and then maybe how you came together and, you know, just a little background so our audience can get a sense of where you all are from.

I can start with that. Absolutely. Well, we did meet at a restaurant in Mahopac, New York, upstate. He actually and his family bought a restaurant that he worked at. And that's it, in fact, how we met, which is amazing. But I did, I watched his family work together and I loved the whole vibe of working with a family. There was something so special about it. I mean, I saw the negative parts about it, of course, which, you know, his mom turned into my mother in law. I was like, oh, my gosh. But I saw the beauty of it and, and it was just something about it that I wanted to take into my life and I did. You know, we got married. We've been married for 25 years. We raised six children, are still raising six children through the restaurant business. I watched him work his butt off in the cold winter in New York, all those long hours. And I thought at one point, I'm like, there's got to be More for him. There's got to be something. And that's when I encourage spouses to just pay attention to each other. A lot of times when we have children, we're so busy with taking care of the kids that we forget about each other as a spouse, as a couple, as a married couple. And over the years, I saw him working hard and not really making the money, and I thought, gosh, there has to be something more. He started doing real estate, he started learning about it. He would come home from the restaurant busy, you know, tired, exhausted, and go into his office and learn. And he'd have books coming in from Amazon constantly and the kids would be excited. Amazon, you know, is delivering at the front door. No, a book for dad. So he would take that book and he would learn and we kind of gave him that space because I knew he needed something different. And, you know, that's when he made. He met Jake, his business partner. We. I did what I could at the time. I had little kids, so I tried to support him when I could. I tried to physically help him with anything he needed, whether it was audio, video, lighting, helping with the books, helping him get them on Amazon, whatever I could do as the wife who was also watching the kids. But it's that encouragement and that support that I just encourage everyone. What a difference that makes.

And I think the only thing I'd add is this. The sacrifice that my wife has made over the last 20 something years. Being home with the kids, not getting the accolades of like, oh, you're going to work and getting a raise from your boss or saying, great job for a lot of those years. For those of you out there, it can be lonely sometimes. And I think us as spouses have to remind ourselves to make sure that, you know, Julie, you're doing a great job. I mean, look at the family now. The proof's in the pudding. After 20 plus years, the kids have grown up and you can say, wow, here's success. But those early years are very challenging and very difficult. And if it wasn't for her sacrifices, I wouldn't be able to be where I am right now, financially, business wise, because she actually did a lot of sacrificing because she could have said, I'm going to work, I'm not going to stay home with the kids. And she sacrificed that. And I think that's the true testament to why I'm as successful as I am, because she sacrificed her stuff.

And.

But at the same time, you know, you going out and trying to build this business, I didn't have a lot of friendships. I didn't go party. I didn't go to Vegas. I really focused on the relationship, the relationship with the business, but also with the family. So I think when you're trying to set up goals and trying to create success in your family, put your family first, but at the same time, know that you need to commit a lot of time and a lot of effort into doing what you're doing, but try to be on the same page. And when it comes to competition, I'm not a competitive person.

Oh, boy.

Okay. Well, we don't compete against each other. Well, maybe we do. Sometimes it's more of me competing with you. Right. We're at the passport agency a couple weeks ago, and we're looking up for our children's Social Security numbers. And it's like a race. And I'm on my phone, and I get it. I'm like, I found the numbers. Yeah, baby, I'm awesome. And my wife is like, what's wrong with you? I'm like, you know, it's just my. I don't mean to say I'm awesome because it's just. It's just the way that we're wired, but, I mean, really, there's no I in team. It's really working together and trying to be complementary. And she's done such a fabulous job with that of lifting me up and making me feel great about what I'm doing and just really never really competing. Trying to be better than someone else on the podcast or trying to show your skills. It's really complimentary. We try to try to keep it that way.

Amazing. Wow. I love that. You all said so many good things. And a lot of parallels, too, with my story. I've been married just over 20 years. I met my wife also in a restaurant. And one of our first investments was actually in Cold Spring, New York, which is not thorough, far from Mailpack. Not mistaken. Right there. We were right there on the Hudson river, and we bought a three family, and we. We lived in one of the units and collected rent from the rest while. And we actually lived there while we were renovating our place in the city. So, yeah, a lot of long hours while I was commuting into the city. But, you know, Alison, my wife, has been a real partner in this. She's not in the real estate business. She's a nursery school teacher. But she's always been my sounding board, and she's always right. I don't know how she does it, but, like, her gut sense, what if It's a business question or something going on. Even if she doesn't understand maybe the complexity of what's going on, like, that ability to just kind of cut through and have that sense. And she knows me, and she knows kind of what. What's best as well. So she's. She's, you know, completely a partner in my own personal success. So. I love how you support each other. The other thing, I should add, funny enough, is that very early on, when I was starting as a sales broker, I mean, trying to do everything on your own. I mean, it's. I've got a team of three dozen people now. I don't even know what I would do if I didn't have, like, a half a dozen people, let alone, like, no one. And so probably wasn't. I know, probably was not even legal at the time, But Alison would actually help me show property, like, and go out because, like, there was just no way, like, I was bringing in all this business, and I had to, you know, be. I couldn't be in three places at once. So. And I had another one of my college roommates, he was going out showing property as well. So we just. We made it work. So, James, let's be honest.

You couldn't even get the mic started on your computer. So nowadays, like, that, we need the help. That's my wife is. I hit the button. I'm like, julia, how do I fix the computer? She runs in here. So we need that. Sometimes it's just having that person. And listen, that sounding board is so important because we make things so complex sometimes. And sometimes to have that outside perspective, their paradigm, the way they look at things is different than the way someone else is looking at things. So when you're in it, you're in the nitty gritty. It's always wonderful to be able to come home and speak to your spouse and say, what would you do in this? How does this look to you? And they have a different perspective. They're detached. They have no emotions about it. Meanwhile, we may be in it going, I got to get the right price. The cap rate stinks. These tenants are terrible. And then she can just look back and say, well, ask you questions that you're not even thinking about. So that's so important when you're working together. And like you said, if you're not. If you're being complimentary and not trying to be confrontational or trying to compete, it can really make your business and your life so much easier.

So talk about. Yeah. And could not agree more. With all those points. So, you know, talk about starting off and kind of right after the restaurant, did you start investing? And then you start kind of working on these property investments together. And then I want to hear everything that you are doing with your program to teach others how to invest. So how did this all come about? Did you start as an investor and then you started the, the educational course? Kind of. How did this all evolve?

It all started back in 2008 when I read the book the Secrets of the Millionaire Mind by T Harv Eker. I was pissed off. The time everyone forgets about the Great Recession, we may be going back to it. And I'm working harder, I'm making less money. The Internet's coming around. You have GrubHub, you have UberEats, you have Panera. I'm working hard and I'm like blaming everybody else with the exception of myself. And now Realtors out there. Interest rates are rising. We can blame the economy, we can blame the Fed. It's not going to do us any good. I ultimately said to myself, I need to accept responsibility of what's going on. That's what that book, T Harv Eker's book really made me do, is just. Just accept that responsibility and say, how do I become better? Your fruits earn your roots. That's what T Harv Eker says. And I think that's so important. My fruits weren't that. My roots weren't that strong. So therefore I didn't have that many fruits out on my tree, as the metaphor would say. I need to work, I needed to skill up, I needed to learn. And that's when I dove into mentorship. And that's when I started, quote, unquote, investing in my education. It wasn't an expense, it was an investment. It's very hard back then to think of dropping 25 or $30,000 on a mentorship program. My wife didn't balk. We didn't have a lot of money back then. She never said, hey, we can't do that. She said, if this is what you need. And I said, I need this because I need to learn the business. I need to understand, because I've made mistakes on investing. I need to understand multifamily, the vehicle. I need to know how to underwrite, deal and pick a market and do due diligence. All these things that I don't know how to do. I need to learn that. Because if I'm going to spend a million dollars or invest $2 million into a property $25,000 is a drop in the bucket. I met Jake in 2009. He knew less than I did. He was a pharmaceutical rep. So he got the pizza guy and the drug rep partnering up in 2011. Eighteen months later, you know, lock, skill, whatever it is, we find their first property. It's a $600,000 deal. We still own that same property today. It's a 25 unit property. We bought our second property three months after that, our third property six months after that. And to date, we own around 1600 units. No syndications, it's just one syndication on deals. Just a partnership. Me, Jake, my partner Mike. We're allowing our employees to invest in our deals now as well, I guess. The assets are on. $275 million in assets under management. We were investing in the Southeast United States, but it all started back in 2008. The big why, and it was really, I call it mind belief. I. I could believe I can do it. There's a lot of people out there doing it, and I don't want a job fixing and flipping homes. I don't want any of that stuff. I want to get into multifamily. I want to create wealth. And I was looking at all the people who have created wealth in this country, and 90% of them are in real estate. And I wanted to create that. Not only just wealth myself, but the generational wealth and a legacy wealth and bring my family along for the ride. And then 2016, I said, I've done pretty good with this. Let me start the education. And I want to create impact and teach others how to do this. And that's when we launched our first book. And from there, we launched the podcast. And what's amazing, James, is that the podcast and the education has taught me to become such a much better investor. Like the stuff we learned at Sirhant about branding and about speaking to investors. I'm able to learn that stuff, teach my students, but I'm also learning it as well. So that's the amazing thing you start out with, quote, unquote, trying to monetize education. The amount of skills that you learn from teaching others and then the stuff that they teach you is priceless in my estimation.

Yeah. One of the things that I have to point out is that when Gino did transfer from the restaurant into the real estate world, a lot of people gave me a hard time, including some family members in my. On my husband's side, not my side, because the restaurant was familiar. It felt safe. There was no risk. We already knew what it Was like, even though he wasn't doing well, it still was there and it was comfortable. And I think so him stepping away from the restaurant and moving toward multifamily, a lot of people, like, that's a big risk. How are you going to let your husband do that? What if he doesn't make money? I mean, I got the questions like you wouldn't believe. And my answer was always the same. I see him educating himself. He's not coming home, watching football or for all hours, not going to the bars, watching whatever other sport he watches. He was literally coming home and educating himself and doing the work. And I had to trust him. And I think that's a big part that we forget in our relationships, especially our marriage, is that we have to put our trust in that person and say, okay, I know you're going to do a good job. And, you know, even if he, he chose the wrong partners at time, that did happen. But I didn't hold it against him. I'm like, all right, let's learn from next time. You know, you, you want to, you want to say, okay, what did we learn here? But we have to remember is that everything we do is a risk. If you stay in the job you're in right now, that's also a risk. And the support that we have at home, like you're, you're saying, james, when you come home, you talk to your wife. That is so important in the business world. I don't think we give it enough credit. So that support that we have at home, wow, what a difference that made.

And when we started out, it was. It was difficult. I was, you know, I was actually homeschooling the kids in the morning before I went to the restaurant. I'd go to work at the restaurant, work until 2. I'd have lunch break from 2 to 3. I'd do an hour of real estate, get back on the cooking line, get home at 9 o' clock at night, and then I'd do another hour or two of real estate and start it all over again. And, you know, within three years of buying the first deal, I was able to leave the restaurant. But it was methodical. I think we really overestimate what we can do in a year, but we vastly underestimate what we can do in five or six years. And from the first year, when I first Met Jake in 2011, it took me five years to ultimately leave the restaurant industry. And that was a huge feat for me because I've got six kids, I'm living in New York I need to make a lot of money. So if you can plan properly, plan within five years, you could absolutely leave your occupation or retire from what you're doing and get into real estate full time. I mean, I'm living proof of that.

Yeah, there's, you know, talking to a lot of people about getting into the business, investing. I really do believe that fear holds so many people back. I mean, you know, it's the unknown and, you know, it's going in and doing something. And yeah, you're going to make mistakes, but, you know, to really take that, that leap. But you did kind of transition and you took the right steps. Julia, I'm interested to hear your perspective as far as. So Gino says, look, I want to get into investing, I want coaching. And you said that some of the people that he partnered to at first didn't really work out. But how do you find the right mentor? What was your sense of this person who Gina was working with or you were both working with, how did you know this person was credible and this was going to work? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening right now who are looking, you know, for the right mentor. So maybe the question is, what do you look for in the right mentor?

Well, for, I mean, for me and I think, I wonder if your wife would agree with this too, is that we. I look for the person, the character, the values that that person holds. And if it directly against everything you hold value or the character is completely different, I would pass on that person. And that's just me. I'm not, you know, obviously I'm not the business person here, but from what I'm experiencing, from what I did experience, experience in the past, those are the people that didn't work out with my husband.

Although sometimes it's tough to tell up front, right? How do you tell if someone has the right character? I mean, sometimes you don't know until things get tough and someone shows their true stripes.

James, what I would say is it's. It's values based decision making. That's what we call it. I mean, really simply put, and it may take a little bit of time, but you may do an investment with somebody. It's like getting into a marriage, a partnership. Maybe you test the waters, you buy one deal together and see how it goes. Maybe you do a criminal and credit background check. I wouldn't say no to that because you want to see is that person lied to you. So if you do a background check and you see the person went into bankruptcy and Then you're talking to them, hey, if you're in bankrupt, person says, no, I'm not. And then you have the proof. Well, maybe that's the person that doesn't align. But more importantly, with Jake and myself, our goals were in alignment. We wanted to buy for long term, we wanted to buy multifamily. We didn't fall into the shiny object syndrome of, oh, let's do crypto one day, let's do single thing. No, we were really aligned as far as goals as well and understanding. Because if you're, you know, if you're a younger person and you're part of partnering up with someone who's a lot older, your goals may not align. That older person may want to just invest with, you know, less risky assets and may want to invest for cash flow. That younger person may want to get into deals, turn those deals and create more equity. So make sure that your, your goals and objectives align. And then obviously, values are so important. As far as, you know, we have core values. Make sure your core values align. Growth mindset, people first. Unwavering ethics. The one thing with Jake is whatever he says he's going to do, he does. And he's a really hard worker. And I admire that in people because there's not many people who like to work hard. They say they do. I had a taste of that before we partnered up for the real estate because he was the pharmaceutical rep coming into the restaurant and getting the, you know, pharmaceutical doctor's orders. He'd bring in catering to doctor's offices. He was always prepared. He always looked professional, he was always clean. He always went to the doctor's offices professionally. He had a great reputation with them. So I'm like, this guy works really hard and he wants to make something out of it. And I have value to provide to him. And more importantly, he has value that he can provide to me because he's in the market. Knoxville, he's boots on the ground. I'm up in New York. I can teach this guy how to underwrite deals and how to take deals down. And he can be the person who's bird dogging these deals and managing these deals. So there's got to be a value transfer there. And we were both good at that. And like, now he's property managing. He's running the property manager side of the business. I'm running the education side. And they work so well together because they do work together. So we cross over in a lot of of instances. But you'll never hear Jake say, I can't do that. I'm tired, I'm sick. There's just, you do as you say and you say as you do. That's one of the biggest things that we have in our partnership. And I would say that to everybody else, challenge yourself, because you may be a weak partner, you may be the weak link. Don't, you know, look within yourself and say, hey, but having a partner will push you because I will not make excuses throughout the day to let my partner down. I may do that for myself sometimes, but I can't let Jake down because I know he's never going to let me down, too.

And in any relationship, and whether it's a marriage, a friendship, business friendship, business partnership, that's where you get to know the person. You get to know about their family life, you get to know about their personal life. You have to spend the time and put the effort in to knowing that side of them. And I think that's where a lot of us forget, like, oh, they're, they're good with money. I'm just going to go with them. And that's where I've seen issues that could have been avoided. But at the same time, they make for good stories. So, like, all right, you know, well.

Yeah, I mean, look, if you're doing this long enough, I mean, there are people out there where, you know, you take them at face value and things don't work out. But we learn, and the best partners, you end up working. I mean, the first investment I ever made with Matt Blesso, you know, we've been partners ever since I've invested in over a dozen properties together. And not to say that we haven't had deals that haven't worked out, but I know that Matt is always going to do the right thing, right? And that's first and foremost. So I spent a lot of time in the beginning of my book talking about finding that right partner, because again, if the number one hurdle or fear to get in this business is, okay, I don't have the money and I haven't done this before, okay, well, what can you do? You can hustle, you can find the opportunity, you can put in that sweat equity when you find that deal. My book talks also about how to go about doing that. You can bring that to a trusted partner and say, hey, you've got the experience, you've got the track record, you've got the investors, you've got the lender connections. You know, let me contribute this deal. You know, pay me some sweat equity for bringing it to the table. I'LL try to, you know, raise some money alongside, and, you know, that's a great way to get started as opposed to just trying to figure it out on your own for the first time. So, Gino, maybe you could talk about that. I love talking about the first deal because I think it's always, you know, you're trying to figure it out. And maybe, Julia, what. You know, you're watching what's happening with a $600,000 investment. So I'm sure at the time, I mean, again, if you're trying to. You've got a family of six, you're trying to provide for everybody. I mean, this was probably a big bet. So maybe tell us a little bit about the deal, how it went down, and then how you were able to reload so quickly within three months to go do another deal.

It was 2011. I remember sitting in my basement, and Jake's telling me, I'm going to Knoxville. I'm like, great. Looking at the deals in Knoxville. The price per unit's great, right? Of the recession. It just makes sense. And when he gets there, he starts looking at deals, and then his fiance moves down, and he's like, I got to take some time off. I can't look at deals anymore. I'm like, oh, dude, you're killing me. But I had that desire. I needed to do something else. And like I said, it literally took us 18 months. See, the problem with most people misunderstand is the brokers, James Nelson, are the ones who have the golden goose. We need to treat the James Nelson's of the world like gold. Jake was the salesperson trying to sell himself instead of trying to sell the broker on Jake. And that's why one of the reasons why it took us 18 months, we were lucky that we found an older broker in Tennessee. I mean, listen, for 18 months, we were getting, y' all ain't doing business down here in Tennessee. Two Italian boys from New York. It was a little bit difficult back in the early 2000s. I'm not gonna lie to you. It was hard, but we wanted it. And that broker took us under our wings, and he found that deal. Believe it or not, back then, deals were on LoopNet. There wasn't a problem of not finding deals. It was just there was no money back down out there. The syndication, there was no capital raising going on. The economy was terrible. Rents were 350 bucks for one bedroom back then. So there were deals, but there was just no activity. And we found this deal. It was owner finance. So we got 10% owner financing. On the front end of this was a $600,000 deal. We needed to come up with $60,000, $20,000 in closing costs. It was a total of $83,000 out of pocket. The seller held a 10% seller finance note, and we needed to get 80% from the bank and for us, I guess, my brother, to partner up. So there was three of us on that one deal. And I remember doing that deal the night before. I felt like throwing up. I was, I was afraid because I didn't know what I didn't know. I had already invested out of market. I already invested in a couple duplexes out in Rochester. But this is my first deal with Jake. And I remember closing it. And month later, the septic fields go. Three months later, a resident passes away in one of the units. They were weekly rentals. We had to turn them into monthly rentals. It was a challenging, difficult time. But we bought it right. And our three step framework is buy right, manage right, and finance right. We bought the asset properly. You know, we financed it right on the front end. We got bank financing, community bank. We got 10% seller financing. So the financing was, was right. We were learning to manage right. And we, we decided to take management in house on the very first deal because Jake was able, earned 10% of the gross rents. It was 13,000 bucks a month. He was making $1300 on the property management fees. So that was the way for him to get out of that business. But not even that. We were able to manage it ourselves. And within six months, property was stabilized. Within 18 months, we were able to refi $165,000 out of that deal and go into the next deal. And, you know, as you're seeing right now, the market is starting to shift as to how it was back in 2013. We're getting back into that buyer's market. We just closed the deal last week, 128 units. We got 5% seller financing on, you know, on the deal. Seller walked in, says, I don't want to pay franchise and excise taxes in Tennessee. Can you hold some paper? Sure. We'll hold 5%. And that's coming back. That's one of the opportunities. But also that ability to what I like to call refine, roll. My wife still doesn't really like the concept. It's refinancing the property and rolling the capital back out. We've been able to, you know, do over $25 million from our portfolio and not buy the Lambos, not buy the expensive vacations. Put that money back into the next deal and roll it deal and continue doing that. And that's why you need a few years to build wealth in multifamily or in any kind of real estate, you know, venture being able to extract that value from the property and put it into the next deal. But that first deal, it was scary, but we learned so much from it. And you'll get the confidence when you do your first deal. You're like, you know what? That wasn't that bad. What did I learn? What didn't I learn? And that's how we, you know, we targeted buying mom and pop deals and, you know, that framework that came out of it. And then three months later, that same broker saw that we executed on the first deal. He brought us the second deal. He says, I think this would be a good fit for you guys as well. And then six months later, we're able to find our partner, Mike, who had a strong balance sheet. And we said, Mike, we've got 136 units. Let's take that deal down. So whether you're sitting out there going, should I start on a duplex or should I start with 100 unit? Just start. Think big, start small, get into a triplex up in Cold Spring, live in one unit, fix out the other two units. Three months later, the brokers will be calling you going, hey, you execute on that deal. I've got this deal for you.

You know, the other side to it.

There is another side I didn't know.

For some reason, when I think of back in New York with all the kids, it was always winter. I don't know why I do that to myself, but it's. I remember when my husband started doing this, he was nervous. But let me tell you, our communication used to stink. And, I mean, it was really bad. It was to the point where I didn't know what was going on. I could just see in his face that he was struggling, that he was stressed, that, you know, he was nervous about everything that was going on. We didn't do well for many, many, many years. People, nobody knew that. We kind of hit it to ourselves. We had this big, beautiful house. We always had parties. We had every. Every holiday was at our house. But we never said, hey, we're not, you know, for the past seven years, we haven't been doing well. So. But. But that was the whole moment. When I think back about it, first of all, communication was so. It was so poor. And it only started, I'm going to say, about five, six years.

Well, I Don't want to complain to you. You're having problems with the kids and selling, like, hey, Jules.

Yes.

But at the same time, we really know what's going on behind the scenes. And. And that's the problem. A lot of times, we don't want to include our spouse. We don't want to worry them. We don't want to bring in our burdens to the other side. But we could do it in a way where it's not complaining, where it's not nagging. There's always a way. And it's. And it's usually starts with like, can I talk to you for a minute? I'm having a really hard time. Something like that. Instead of saying, I can't believe you're late. I've been with the kids all day. You know what I mean? Like, we could turn a conversation into a very polite, beautiful conversation if we.

Just at the same time, I would communicate to her, James, and say, hey, Julia, we just refied out a million bucks in that deal. I am pumped, baby.

Yeah.

And she's like, oh, good job.

Okay.

I'm saying, Julia, $1 million. Do you know what. You know how many pizzas I have to make to earn a million dollars? And there was no excitement.

Well, there wasn't excitement because I didn't understand. I didn't understand what meant. And so I'm like, okay, but what does that mean for me? Like, I don't know what that means. I'm here. You know, I didn't sleep last night or the night before or, you know, any year in the past 15 years because I didn't understand, because there was no communication. And that's why I. I realized, you know, these past few years, we both became life coaches. And wow, what a difference it made in the listening skills and the communication skills and the how to speak to each other. It's unreal.

James, this is important. This is really important, because on August 30, 1998, my wife became financially free. She didn't have to worry about money another day in her life, right? For me, that was her wedding day. That was our wedding day. For me, it was my burden. And when I told her, I want to become financially free and I want to leave the restaurant, she didn't understand that I didn't paint the right picture for her, and maybe she wasn't as excited as me. So I said, I'm getting these refinance checks. It's allowing me to build another block and financial freedom to me, looks like, hey, let's Go to Ryan Sirhan's for the weekend. Hey, let's have your mother come live down here. Oh, you see that little cottage? Let's buy that cottage. Let's spend $25,000 and do a fundraiser without even thinking about it. That to me was financial freedom. Now when I explain it to her in that way, that refi and role is a lot more exciting building now, you understand? That was on me. And so it's part of the communication.

Part of it is that a lot of times when our spouses aren't excited, especially you guys listening that are doing deals and your wife is kind of like me, like, wow, that's great. Good job. Explain what that means in. In the language that she understands, because that's really what. It's just a miscommunication. And that's all. Half the time our arg are or, you know, the excitement part isn't there. But I just. Yeah, there are times in our lives where we don't do well financially. And it's, you know, instead of getting irritated at each other, it's the moments like, okay, what can we cut back on? And it's just like that humility at that point. It's like, all right, what do we need? You know, what do we need in the house that's so important? But what can we cut back on? And sometimes it's really good for us when we get like that. You know what I mean? I don't know.

Yeah, it's. And it's such a great conversation to have because. And I really appreciate how you all are bringing this to the forefront. And by the way, I'm telling you, we've now done close to 150 episodes. I've never had an episode even close to this because usually. Well, you aren't actually the first husband, wife, guest that I've had. I've got to go back and remember that there was kind of a home flipping couple that came on and they were. I was interviewing them as they were driving in the car to their next deal, and they were definitely in it and a lot of excitement there. But I love how you all are really getting into, you know, really the interaction, you know, the communication, the support, the family element to this all because it is so paramount to success. I mean, it's more important than the business, right? Because without, you know, a strong family and great communication, you don't have anything. You know, what you all were saying, though, is, I'm thinking, you know, because for me, if I have all this stuff going on during the Day, I just compartmentalize it, right? Cause it's like, yes, I deal with challenges, issues all the time. That's my job description as a broker. I'm trying to bring two opposing parties together. Seller obviously wants to get the highest price, buyer wants to pay the lowest. So just trying to bridge that gap. So there's always going to be things that come up. But it's like. And maybe in the early days I was talking through all those situations, but after a while, you know, Allison's heard it dozens and dozens of times. You know, she gets it and knows that I just, you know, whatever it is, I bounce back and. But yeah, I mean, some days it's really heavy and I, I've got to personally say, like, even getting this book out over the last couple weeks, like, even for me, who is used to getting up at 4:45 in the morning and going like non stop, I was like, oh my God, I've taken on too much. I think I've finally hit a wall. Like, this is really. And so to be able to tell my wife that, you know, she's like, okay, let's, you know, do you really need to keep doing that? Do you need to post every single day, Saturdays and Sundays, about the book and everything? And it was like, you're right. Okay, so like, she definitely helps with the balance as well. So. Well, look, I want to talk about your books because you guys have done some incredible things. You've got two children's books, a Gelato Blast and the Cannoli Exploded. Thank you for sending those to me as well. But I want to also talk to you about the Honeybee and not to ruin it for anyone who. I would encourage anyone to get this, but maybe you can just give the audience a little bit of a backdrop on this parable and about as you subtitle it, getting unstuck and taking control of your own financial futures. So we'd love to hear a little bit about that.

Yeah, I'd give you the 62nd overview. When we started investing in multifamily, all we thought of of was cash flow. But as we started buying these assets, all of a sudden we saw that you can start creating multiple streams of revenue. And a lot of our students are like, thank you for writing the book, because all of a sudden I'm trying to get out of my business. You have an investment property, you have two investment properties. Our first stream of revenue that came off of that business was the property management company. So all of a sudden we've created a complimentary Stream of revenue. Then the next one was the education company off of the. Off of our investments. Then the next one was the syndication company. We start raising capital from our investors. That's a different revenue stream. Now we're doing development, so we're starting to develop in multifamily. Another one is we're selling whole life insurance, which is a great stream of revenue off of that. Because if you've got money and it's sitting in a savings account, put it into whole life policy, borrow the money out and create, you know, two assets with that $1. So as we were building, we're saying to ourselves, man, this is amazing. We didn't get into multifamily to create other businesses, but there's so many ways to create complementary streams. And think about it as like a bicycle wheel. The bicycle, you're here with the spoke in the middle. That's the multifamily property. And this can be in any business if you're in a single family home fix and flipper, you can do the same thing. Start to see things that are complementary. Now, for me, in the book, they talk about certain things maybe not to do. All of a sudden this, you know, Noah, the protagonist in the book, is like, okay, I'm going to go out and invest in a restaurant. He shouldn't have done that. He got a bee sting. Because all of a sudden that's not in the multi family lane. Now if he had said to himself, I'm gonna buy the real estate because I love the real estate and that's my business. And then rent out, lease a space to the restaurant, that's one thing. And the reason why it's called the honeybee. Think about what honeybees do. They're like not W2 workers. They're there making the honey, not asking any questions, just going about their day. Pretty boring life. Who makes the money? Tom in the book, he's the beekeeper. He owns the beehive. He's the one who makes the money. So when you guys are all out there thinking about your business and thinking of ways to leave your job and get into multifamily full time, maybe that may be creating a complementary stream of revenue. If you want to write a book, start the education company, start a podcast, maybe become a coach yourself. You've had students who have all of a sudden done a couple multifamily deals and they love the life coaching aspect of it. They start their own little coaching business to supplement what they're doing with their W2. Then things start changing. And I. What I love about the book is the simplicity. My kids all read it, they all loved it. And I was like, good, home run. And that's why we started writing the kids books, because one of our passions is, let's start teaching our kids about responsibility and about talking about money.

Yeah, the kids books, of course, are the best ones. I'm going to just be honest.

There's no competition, right? As she said, she never cannolis.

I mean, come on, who doesn't love cannolis? Okay, the kids book, I. I secretly wrote for the adults because a lot of times we read kids books and we're like, oh, but it's. It's. Something bad happens, and the characters have to discover that there is not just one solution. There's not just one way of dealing with it. We have to think about, what are my options? You know, and so the three characters choose different. Different options, different ways. And then the second book, we have new characters come in, and it's basically, who are you surrounding yourself with?

Who is.

Who are the people you're listening to? Who is your mentor? Because that alone is going to help you make decisions in life. A lot of times we. We choose the downers in life to talk with and tell us that they're our ideas, and then we're discouraged and we don't do it. So who is in your life that's your mentor, who's encouraging you? Who are you surrounding yourself with? And I think this is a great conversation to have with kids because we're there. We're their ultimate example. And so who are we hanging out with? Who's our mentors? Who are we surrounding ourselves with is really the example for them. So we have to kind of look at ourselves before we teach our kids these great lessons on responsibility.

Yeah, I love that I forget the expression that you're the. You're the average of the 10 people you hang out with that spend the most time with. So, yeah, just surrounding yourself with the right people and, you know, that support, network and positivity and Gino, I love what you were saying about, you know, the spokes of the wheel and staying in your lane, because that's something where. I mean, And I'm sure at this point. And you're. You all have had tremendous amounts of success. I'm sure opportunities are coming across your desk like, every day. And so. And I can also get this, like, whole, you know, going a hundred different directions at once, you know, and so I think always asking yourself, okay, is this core, you know, to what, what I'm trying to do here. So I might have to speak to you offline about some, you know, some future planning here because I've got, you know, it's all good things, but again, it's like, okay, investment sales. I do brokerage. I do a lot of investing on the side, both as a gplp. Now I've got this book which has been great, and I'm talking to a lot of people about it. So, I mean, who knows, some of suggested. Does that become an educational course? You know, I don't know. Like, that seems like it's within the same universe, but there's also so many hours in the day. But if, you know, we watch our friend Ryan, I do not know how he does it, because if you text him at any point in time, you know, he'll get back to you, right? And he's the real deal. It's like, no, no, there's not like, you think there's like 10 holograms of him, but no, it's him. So.

Well, what he's doing, James, it is pretty awesome to see, but he's basically doing the honeybee, the multifaceted. It all ties back into his brand. So I want to see James Nelson, the brand, the investment broker who knows what he's doing, who does have investments and who can actually. And the education can be something where you're giving back. It doesn't. You don't have to monetize that, but that also lends to your credibility. And all of a sudden you're building the brand through the book and through giving back to others. And then every time you meet somebody, it's all about the book.

So I would love team, too, that you put together. The team is so important, you know, at home, but also in work, it goes together. And that's why I always encourage people. You can be happy at work if you come home and it's not fulfilling. That's what you really. We really need to work on that.

Because I think that. I think the book you'll see, you'll be able to create impact and you'll be able to get emails from people saying, you know, James, thanks for writing the book. It really helped me out. I mean, our students have closed over 60,000 units. I'm saying that's almost $5 billion in real estate. Over 100 students, 101 students have left their W2 jobs. My BHAG is have a thousand students leave by the year 2030. If you think about 100 students leaving their W2, that's thousands of families that have been impacted. Great closing of the deal. That's helping myself out. But if I can help others out and then ultimately karma works in a way that those students end up helping.

And even more excitingly, it's my, for me is that many marriages have really had an impact. And I, and I'm not kidding, like there's tears in people's eyes, which it kills me. Like I just, just that alone is amazing because we don't do a lot. We don't, there's not much. We. Sometimes you get on stage at a real estate conference, we talk about marriage and relationships and people are like, what the heck is this? It was a real estate conference. But then they come over and they're like, I really needed to do that.

Part of the conference.

I can't believe. How did you know that? I'm like, listen, we're all go through the same things. We can relate. We just have to be open about them. But that part is the bus. It goes together because if you're having a really rough time at home, it's going to come out in your business world.

And so, and the other huge benefit is obviously when you have your own portfolio. And even as a broker, I'm an independent contractor. No one tells me that I have to be at my office between 8 in the morning 6. I choose when and where I want to work and where I want to be and if I want to take a vacation, I take a vacation. Right? So, you know, that freedom, you know, especially for a family and my kids. I have my oldest going off to college. He's going to be playing water polo out at usc and you know, I'll be able to go out and you know, we'll be able to go visit them or if I want to go take a weekend, you know, I'm taking my, my, my youngest down to Florida next weekend to go fishing. And you, you can do that, right? So there's so much more that comes along with this. So I want to talk more about this coaching program that you have. So how did this all start? I, I love the BHAG. I, I love, you know, having 100 of your students become, you know, independent and full time investors. So how did, how did you come up with this idea, the program, you know, how do you deliver it? I got a chance to meet many of your students. I mean the energy and again, dedication is amazing.

It started in the basement in New York. We just started filming some videos. I remember it was like 42 degrees down there. We had heaters. Jake is wearing a blanket down there.

It was a princess blanket.

It was a princess. But that's where you start. Everyone thinks you need to start in this massive production. And, you know, when we. When we interview you on Friday, we'll be in our studio, so we'll have a nice background for you. But you don't need to start there. All you need to do is to become authentic, transparent, and be willing to teach others what you. What you've done and what you've learned. And we've gone through so many iterations, starting from lower tier, just delivering online. Then you start hiring coaches, then you start hiring salespeople to help you sell your program. Then you start delivering, you know, events, you know, in person. We were just in Dallas last week with 100 students touring. One of our students has got over a thousand units in Dallas, and we were touring two of his properties. So we have a hundred students there. They all get to meet and network. And for me, it literally pulled me through Covid for those two years, I was going to every event. We had an event in July 2020 in Knoxville. So for me, the energy, the excitement, and being around, like you said, proximity is power. Being around these students that want to better their lives and working on their mindset, working on their family, working on their business, it's exciting for me as well, and it gives me perfect purpose. And. And that's how it started. It just started just wanting to help a few people and just trying to be consistent every day, trying to get online, put content out there, then writing a blog, and then maybe starting one podcast and then maybe another podcast and then another book. And before you know it, like I said, five years later, you've got four podcasts weekly, you've written three books, you've got two coaches working for you. You've got, you know, 100 students. It just takes time and dedication. But don't start education just to monetize. I started it because I really wanted to interview people like Robert Kiyosaki, Ken McElroy, T. Harv Eker. How could I provide value for them? Well, let me get them on a podcast, Let me provide a platform for them, let me read their book, write a blog about their book, and then let me get them on. That's where my mindset was for the education. And when I saw that, I was able to provide value for students, and that's what the marketplace shows. If you provide value to somebody, they will pay your product. We get into business because we want to make money. For ourselves. And that was the mistake that I made in the restaurant business. I started that business to provide for my family. And you start a business to provide value to the customer. And once you have that mind shift, everything changes. It's like, oh, how do I provide more value? Well, I need to do more events, I need to write more books, I need to do more coaching calls. All of a sudden you start seeing it from the lens of the customer and then your business will start taking off. That's why I had one restaurant for 20 something years and within five years I had 1500 multifamily units.

Well, I think too you're the Jake and Gino shows the importance of community. Because a lot of times, like you said earlier, we're trying to do everything by ourselves and it's just we're not supposed to be doing things on our own. And I think the community itself, they, they impact each other. But I think we've had an impact on them, but they've also have an impact on us and we sometimes we forget about how important that is. Yes, we want to give back to society, we want to give back to other people through our amazing marriage for 25 years and all our, all our painful struggles that we've gone through. And we are very open and honest. Anything you want to know.

She's not competitive, remember, I'm not competitive.

But sometimes my stories are better.

Yeah, she's got better stories. What else is it?

And name anything. No, but I think that is the importance of community. And whether it is in your home or it's outside your home or it's virtual because now we can be, we can be connected to anyone all over the world, which is unbelievable. We, through his company, I have a women's group on Thursdays. We meet every Thursday at 12 o' clock Eastern. And it is amazing because we don't talk multifamily. We literally talk about personal issues that we all face and all have struggles with. But we all need that, all of us. And I think that even if we are not into multifamily, we find a group of people that we can connect with that doesn't. They do not complain, because that's what I try to stay away from. But we are honest with each other and we're supportive and we try to lift people up to the point where it's like, okay, what are we going to do now? And actually have an action plan at the end.

Yeah, the community, it's just so important. Especially you've got independent investors who are out There trying to figure it out on their own. I mean it's so much more difficult. Why try to reinvent the wheel when so many other people have come across the same thing things and whether it's in investing or you know, in their home life. So I love that. And yeah, no, it's just amazing. I also, you know, the idea of just, you know, starting thinking big, starting small. And I was saying before we were getting on that my goal has always been, you know, progress, not perfection. Just start, just do something. So many people I think spend so much time laboring, oh, you know, it's got to be perfect or you know, just, just, just start. Because by the way, when you start, it's not going to be good. The first, you know, if you do. My first podcast was not good, you know, whatever it is, I mean it's, we learn by doing. So I think that's so important. But you know, I, I would be, you know, so you have many first time investors, so what advice do you give them? Because we have a lot of aspiring investors listening to this show like how do you tell them to get started, where, you know, where do they begin? And kind of walk us through that.

First couple action steps is, you know, set goals for yourself. What do you want? I mean you need to make an assessment on yourself as far as time, capital, age, assess what you're going on with. But really to start a multifamily, the first thing you need to do if you're a new investor is just select the market. Go out there and make sure that you select a market. One, possibly two, because I heard your story at Sirhance event. You spent three months without picking up the phone becoming an expert in that area. Well, that's what you need to do. And you need to know all of the James Nelson's of the world, all the brokers in that market. When you pick up the phone and talk to James Nelson, you better know what the cap rates are, what the median income is, what the income and expenses are of that market. If you don't do that, you don't talk to brokers and you don't waste your time because you can't underwrite a deal. So selecting the market is the very first thing. Then the next thing is just opting in and starting to learn who the brokers are, start opting into their lists, start talking to those brokers and when you get comfortable and you know the multifamily jargon and you can underwrite a deal, that's when it's time to do. Start doing some property tours. Get on the property tours with the brokers and start understanding where valuations are. They're not going to show you the great deals. They don't know you. But at least a property tour is going to show James Nelson that Gino is serious about the business. And I'm not just calling up and saying, hey, James, can you rip over some deals to me? No, James, let's go walk that property. 123 Main Street. Let's take a look at it. I looked at the underwriting. You know, it doesn't really work for me. You have any other deals for me? I love to see anything else on your table. That's what you need to do to get into multifamily space. That may take you three months from when you first start to when you're actually looking at deals. That's why you said practice. Practice makes progress. It doesn't make perfect. That progression going from the very beginning to getting comfortable. And that's why the community is so helpful, because you have students who've done it, you have coaches who can guide you through the way, and you have potential partners in there who have done it. You can latch on to them. So that's what I would say. How to start right then in there, look at what you're trying to accomplish, and then, you know, go on and start selecting those markets.

One of the things, though, you have to add in there, because this is super important and it seems such a. Like a little thing, but the fear of it, the fear of seeming uneducated or the fear of the other person on the line knowing more than you, that's what a lot of times people don't call because they're afraid of that. That. And I just. My advice, because this is what I've done to overcome many fears in my life, is literally do it anyway. Even if you're afraid, just do it anyway. If you. If you're not sure if you're going to sound okay on the phone call anyway. Because a lot of times it's us that's holding ourselves back from success, from the littlest of steps to the greatest things. And we get in our own way sometimes. And I just encourage people, if you're afraid, just do it. Scared, just do it. But so what if you're afraid? It gets easier.

The broker hangs up on you, says, that's the worst thing.

James, my biggest fear in life was speaking. Speaking to anyone. So here I am.

That I would not have guessed.

Okay, thank you.

And with only A couple minutes left. This has been amazing. I'd love, maybe tell the audience, I know you have four podcasts. Maybe talk about those, where they can find you all, where they can find your course and, you know, all this incredible content that you have.

The simplest thing, James, is just go to jakeandgino.com you'll see the website, you'll see all the blogs there, you'll see the books, you'll see the podcasts. And the Jake and Gino show has all of our different shows on there. If you want to listen to real estate, you listen to Jake and myself. If you want to listen to two people arguing, complaining about each other and making fun of each other and have a good time, enjoy 30 minutes of what we should be doing every day with our spouses. Because, I mean, let me tell you, this is, I have a lot of fun getting on shows with her because I know it's, it's tongue in cheek and she could drive me nuts throughout the day, but it's so much, it's so much therapy getting out there and hearing her point of view. Just go to Jake and Gina dot com.

Or if you go to juliano dot com it goes to coloring pages you can print out for your children. Yes, yes.

Well, listen, I've got one last question for you all to get out the personal note. I'm just intrigued. So six kids homeschooling, amazing. By the way, my, my half sister, she's homeschooled five kids. So I, I do have an understanding and it's incredible work and, you know, hats off to you all for, for making that commitment. But, you know, tell us kind of where, where the kids are right now, kind of what are their thought process for the, Each one, I'm sure, has their own individual goals. But I'm curious, especially for any of those who've said, hey, mom, dad, I want to be a real estate investor because it's, maybe it's just by default, but if you asked all three of my kids what they want to do, it's real. It's all they know where I'm trying to say, you know, look, I didn't even know what real estate was when I was a senior in college. I was very lucky to fall into this. So just, just curious for, for, you know, our listeners out there of kids, you're saying, hey, I want to, you know, I want to get into the business. What, what do you tell your kids? Career advice wise?

Our advice is very different.

The oldest one is 23 years old and she's a Catholic mission missionary. So she's doing missionary work right now. So she's invested in one of my deals. So she's got money in one of the deals. So she sees that and her whole paradigm of money has shifted. Because when you're a missionary, you need to raise capital and it's like you're talking to investors, you're bringing people to Jesus, so you have to sell people on Jesus. It's as if selling people on a deal. She was very averse to sales, but guess what? You want to be a missionary, you better get them bucks, baby. So she understands that now, and I think she really likes that. My son is 20 years old. He's a junior in college. He's in three of my deals invested. He started out with a $5,000 investment. Now his net worth is mid six figures. It's been amazing to see that. And he's like, dad, I don't want the money and I want put in the next deal. So he's always thinking about the next deal. He's thinking about owner draws and he knows he wants to get seller financing from me. So I'm like, Mike, you're not gonna, you're not gonna. He's always asking, can I, Mike, you can't borrow 50 grand for me. You're gonna, you're gonna, you're killing me here. But he has that mindset where three years ago I couldn't have had that conversation. The 17 year old, she's ready to go to college. She's not sure what she wants to do, but she's great at the residential real estate. The younger one, the blonde one, she is tough as nails. She's just like my wife, stubborn. She will not let anyone get anything over on her. She goes her own route, which is awesome. The 11 year old is just beautiful. And the 8 year old, she's just all into Amazon, into shoes.

It's different because a lot of times I think a biggest mistake as parents is my husband says this, and that's why I can tell you it's the biggest mistake, because I hear it all the time. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to go to college, you're going to do, do finance, you're going to do it. You know that type. And I said, but you know what if that's not what they're, they're interested in? And so it's really a challenge. It really is. Though it's very tempting to tell the kids what they're good at and what they should do. And it's really hard to say, okay, what are you interested in? And actually to listen to them on what their interests are, because it really pains you sometimes. Like, no, that's not what we raised you for. That's not what we want you to do. So it's this conversation. Again, we talk about spousal conversations, but the parental conversation is really, really difficult because we're expecting them to go into real estate, but some of them have no interests. And so what do you do? Like, our daughter, she put money in a deal. Now she's. She's not interested in the real estate part, but she's interested in what she's getting from it. So now, Gabby, you see, she's like, I understand, Mom. You don't have to explain. Like, okay, but it's hard as the parent to listen to what that. And a lot of them will eventually come around, let's just be honest. Because they'll take that road and then say, okay, you're. You know, maybe you're right. But it's also important to, you know, because Gino is the Jake and Gino Co. And, you know, to work for Dad. I do want them to go out in the world and work someone else, work from somebody else, and to suffer that a little bit because they need that work ethic. Not to be Gino's son at the office, but working for somebody else. So that's another. You know, this is a whole conversation that is great.

Yeah, we could do a whole nother podcast on the topic, but. But I had to ask, and it is amazing. So I only have three kids. Only.

That's three.

But, yes, it's amazing how different they all are. And they've got to figure out their own roads. So this has been phenomenal. Gino, Julia, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation. It's been so wonderful getting to know you. I'm looking forward to coming on your show on Friday and continuing to. To collaborate. So all the best and thank you again.

Thanks, James. Appreciate it. Thanks, everyone.

And everyone listening. Thanks as always for joining. If you have not already, please go to james nelson.com. that's where you can find show notes as well as the video series. It's also where you can find out about the book. So excited to bring that to you and wishing you all the success. Until next week. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. We appreciate your subscribing and sharing with your friends. If you haven't already, please connect with James AmesnelsonNYC on LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter. Please also visit jamesnelson.com where you can find the show notes and other episodes, along with an exclusive video series and other helpful resources so you can gain the insider's edge to real estate investing. Until next week.