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Welcome.

This is the Insider's Edge to Real.

Estate Investing with James Nelson, the principal and head of Avis & Young's Tri.

State investment Sales Group. In this program you'll learn game changing strategies to outperform the market. James will teach you how to source, execute and capitalize on the best real estate opportunities in New York and around the world. Now here's your host.

Welcome everyone to show number 138 of the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. This is your host, James Nelson. I am principal and head of Tri State Investment Sales at Avison Young. Although I should say now, I have updated my social feed. So just to shorten it, I'm saying that I'm James Nelson, principal at Avison Young and yes, I am still head of the the Tri State Investment Sales Group. But I also want to make sure and add that I am also the not only the host of this podcast, but author of the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. So just really trying to get the word out on this project that has been a huge part of my life over the last two years and I am so excited to be bringing this to you in January. As always, you can go to jamesnelson.com for recent updates for show notes here, but also the ability to pre order my upcoming book. It would mean so much to me if you did that now and I know you're going to get a ton out of it. So for this week's show, I share with you several discussions that I had with past guests and a current team member and the focus was on how they got into and learned the business. And what became apparent is there wasn't a book that was all encompassing to set them on their way. That being said, they all share that there was no substitute to learning by doing and having great mentors along the way. I'm hoping for those of you looking to get into the business today or those looking to step up your game will find my book helpful as a foundation for for your success moving forward. Now here's the background on who joined me for this compilation. First, my good friend Chris Okada, who is founder and president of Okada and Company. Over the past 15 years of his New York real estate career, he was able to consummate over $1 billion in sales representing several Fortune 500 companies as well amassing a portfolio of his own office, multifamily and retail properties. Next, I share with you my discussion with Eric Brody, who is founder of Annex Real Estate. Part Eric's a prolific builder and developer in New York City. Over the last 18 years he's had over $950 million worth of real estate development and just over 500 million in total construction costs, representing approximately 800 units built and occupied here in New York City. Formerly he was COO of wonderworks Construction company and today he has also started a proptech contact venture firm and is the host of the Real Tech Talk podcast which I urge you to check out as well. Next we'll have with us Avison Young's own Alexandra Marolda. Alex is an Associate Director on our Tri State Investment Sales team. Prior she spent over five years on the principal side overseeing a real estate portfolio consisting of 1200 units and 50 retail units within Manhattan and the greater New York City area. She has been honored by Real Estate Weekly as a Rising Star and by the New York Real Estate Journal as one to watch. Finally, I speak with my good friend Chad Cooley who is co founder and Managing Partner of AW Partners, a privately held investment firm focused on the hotel space. Prior he was a VP at the Related Companies and he is currently the co Chair of Colgate's Real Estate Council, a group that is near and dear to my heart. So I hope you get a lot out of this episode. As always. Again, please check out James Nelson.com or connect with me at James Nelson NYC on LinkedIn, Instagram or Twitter if you haven't already. So with that we're going to have a brief word from our sponsor and we'll get right into these interviews. Thank you. Again, A different Approach to putting our clients first Avis and Young's Tri State Investment Sales Group sells multifamily office retail development and specialty sales throughout the New York metro area. As experienced thought leaders in their industry, our 35 member group is available to help you make informed investment decisions by advising you on your current holdings or identifying new opportunities in the marketplace. Our one unified team is built on an industry unique platform which promotes unparalleled collaboration and teamwork. We share core values of hard work, integrity and expertise. We put our clients first providing tailor made strategies to achieve superior results. Please Visit us at aytristateinvestmentsales.com and follow us on Twitter LinkedIn and Instagram amesnelsonnyc to learn more. So everybody, this is my good friend Chris Okada, Founder of Okada and Co. But also a very accomplished investor and you were kind enough to come on my show as well and share your story on the podcast. So how long have you been doing this?

For 20 years today. So it's been a day. Not today.

Okay. All right.

20, 20 years. July of 2002, right after nine. 11. So that's really when I entered. Yep.

And you started. I know your family was in the brokerage business, but you really, in addition to growing the brokerage business, you were really the one to start investing, correct?

Yeah. So you know, the thesis, the hope is that you have multiple streams of income and being in commercial real estate in New York City, servicing landlords, running in and out of buildings. You want to be the guy that gets the call. You want to be the principal. So that's essentially why we started. And it's really about timing and being patient and all those things.

So take us back to the first deal that you bought. Do you remember what year it was and maybe tell us a little bit about it?

Yeah, sure. I had just sold. This is in the last financial crisis in 2010, 2011, 11. Things started getting better and I had a seven and a half percent cap. Seven and a half cap in union Square. And I was basically. I didn't want to market it for sale. That's how good of a deal it was. Ultimately, a good, you know, a good client of ours purchased it and they told me I didn't even have to walk the building. I just saw the numbers and I saw the returns. But selling that building at a seven and a half cap in Union Square was basically the. It lit a fire. It lit a fire. We knew where the deals were. This is the time to do it. And my first purchase, other than my apartment, was a. I was a limited partner and I gave a small check, 25, 30,000, something like that, on a 10% cap in and throughout Connecticut and Vermont for stop and shop triple net leases. So that was my first venture into investments. I was an lp.

Amazing. And fast forward to today. How many different investments? I know you own all types of retail office throughout the city here.

Sure. Through the. The 2000 and tens and a little bit during the pandemic, we purchased around $120 million worth of real estate, mostly in midtown Manhattan. That's really my core competency. And yeah, we did a multifamily condominium project conversion. We have office buildings, we have retail buildings, and pretty much all within the west side of midtown Manhattan.

And I'm happy to have been an investor alongside you. And I know I can speak from personal experience. We've done very well. So, Chris, tell us about when you made that first investment and how did you learn? Was there any source out there? Was there any book that actually taught you what to do.

So no, it's. The truth of the matter is most of the things I learned were as was being. Because I was a broker and it took a long time to really understand. So my first investment was my ninth year of being a midtown Manhattan broker. So that's really what it took. And my first investment was not in midtown. But you know, you have to grab, you know, sort of pieces of information from different places, from many different blogs, online, interviewing people, finding mentors. But yeah, I mean you really had to try to pull information from different sources.

So let me get this straight. So you were in the business, you know, nine years and still trying to figure out and pull information together to learn how to invest?

Yeah, I think it's really just because of learning, just getting the confidence to then venture out. You know, you hear these things. $0 down. That is not true. I mean it could be true, but really? Yeah. Nine years in the industry running in and out of buildings and, and the lesson is of being a principal or the lessons I've learned are completely different than being a broker. There is financial attachment to being a broker to the properties you sell. You want to do a good job, you have the pressure of winning. But when you have your money on the line and then you have friends and family or third party investors, money on the line, it's a very different ball game. You really have to constantly be learning. I am huge on reading, I am huge on watching videos. But yeah, so the information, if, if the information could be condensed into a single place, that's also easily that you could intake that information, that it's not an encyclopedia.

Yeah. So. And this might not come as a complete surprise to you, but you are in luck. And I wish I could have. This book would have been available to you when you were starting off. But I'm coming out late in January with the book the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. It's how to gain the advantage and outperform the market. And McGraw Hill is publishing the book. So we're going to get some really great exposure on this. And my hope is that whether you're a student and you're looking to learn about how to get into the business. Excuse me. Or a veteran investor like yourself, that you're still going to be able to learn from this. So again, and I know you're a big student and an avid reader and there's a lot of great books out there which teach you how to be successful or maybe someone's story about how they did it on their own, but not really a how to, to do a serious commercial real estate investment. I know there's a lot of fix it, flip it, but I'm really hoping that this will become the book.

I think that's absolutely incredible. Strategy is important. The technical knowledge is what you know. The missing is the void you could fill. And you certainly have a lot of that. So I think that would be incredible to tell other investors and also veterans. The main thing that I look for when I, when I read a book is, is there a paragraph, is there a page, is there a sentence, one sentence that really can change the way I view the world of investing. And, and that's worth 29.99 or, or 39, whatever it is that you decide, you and the publisher decides. But one sentence can change everything. And that's really what we look for with our knowledge base. There's a million dollars in one sentence or one paragraph or one thought, right?

So the good news is one, my book is retailing for $26. So I'm going to, I'm going to save you $4. And right there. No. But to that point, I believe that investing in real estate is all about having the inside edge, right? It's not like the stock market where everybody can just go and everybody knows what everything's trading for any minute of, you know, that you're an insider. And so I truly believe that this book is not just a compilation of what I've Learned in my 25 year career, but have learned from great investors like yourself because I've been interviewing them on my podcast. So there's over three dozen of these insider tips to give you the advantage to outperform the market. So I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it. Not to ruin the plot, but I'll give you maybe just one piece of wisdom moving forward, which is, and maybe I'd ask you the question, what is the most important thing that you would ask about the seller to decide whether or not it's going to be a great opportunity and a great deal.

Why are they selling? That's the number one reason or the number one thing? Just on the sales side. We spent a whole ton of due diligence on the financial aspect, on the property level aspect. But the simple question of why are they selling? Because a lot of people waste your time and if there's really no urgency or there isn't a specific reason, then most likely the seller is just trying to get the best dollar and isn't in a rush and can have a two year process.

Yeah. So Chris, you clearly could have written this book as well. But yes, that is seller's motivation is the number one thing to look for, to ask for, looking for a great opportunity. And as a broker, I am shocked how rarely I am asked the question, James, why are they selling? What's the motivation? Because to your point, if someone's a discretionary seller, especially in a market like this, you know what, hey, if someone pays me my price, great. But if not, I'll wait. Whereas if we're talking about an estate sale, partnership dispute, distress, these are the opportunities to, you know, to really signal that there could be a great opportunity there. So that's just one of dozens of really specific advice that are going to help you become the most successful investor possible.

Are you going to do an audio version? So that's the next.

There is an audiobook. I already asked if I could read it. And they said, thanks, James, but that's okay. We've got professionals who do this. You're going to hurt yourself if you try to do this otherwise. But yes, there will be an audiobook. There is a Kindle version. And look@JamesNelson.com, you know, that's where all my stuff is. You can find the podcast, the white papers, the videos and everything to help people be as successful as possible. So I'm passionate about doing this. I know you are. So I just really appreciate your taking the time today and I hope others will, will definitely benefit from this moving forward as well.

One last comment is for everyone seeing this knowledge, if you can take someone 20 years or 23 years, I think you're in the 25, 25 years in the business and you could put that all into some kind of condensed thing like a book. I think that's, I think people really, really, really would find value in that. I mean, that's the key, you know, how do I learn 25 years of knowledge in a week? And that's the hope, and that's the hope of making more money.

Thank you. And I appreciate you saying this. And for years people have always asked me, james, what's the book? Hey, I have a friend who wants to get in the business. My son or daughter wants to get into it. What's the resource? And you know, I mean, this is that you learn by doing. And so there's no substitute for that. But I'm really hoping that this will be the primer to get people set on their way to understand the full trajectory of a commercial real estate investment. So that's it. So I can't wait for you to. I'm going to send you an advance copy. I'm going to love. You know, I'm a big fan of your work as well, so it'll be great to get your thoughts on it and hopefully we can help get the word out on it.

Are you going to have a party?

Now we're talking. I thought you were hosting it here at your penthouse office space here. Right. No, we will. We will absolutely do that. So I'm really excited about it. Chris, great to see you again. Thank you. Appreciate it. Hi, everyone. I'm here with my friend Eric Brody, who is founder of Annex Real Real Estate Partners. Thank you so much for, for, for sitting down and joining us today.

James, for you. Come on. I'd stop anything to be here to talk to you. I really appreciate you inviting me to come by.

Awesome. So, Eric, I know I've had the privilege of having you on the show, the podcast. We had a lot of fun talking about your upbringing. In fact, I think I called it no Sleep till Brooklyn. So I know how you roll, and it's been really awesome to see everything you're doing with the real deal and really breaking it down for people on the construction process. So I want to just kind of go back and once again revisit how you got into this business and how you learned about it.

Yeah, it was kind of roundabout. You know, I actually was in the fitness business until I realized better to own the real estate and then partner with the gym than to run the gym business. So back in 2002, I started a company. You know, it's one of those things where you say, you know, act as if I'm like, I'm a builder developer. And I really didn't know what that was about just yet. So I worked for my father, who was an architect in the city of New York for 40 years. I went to construction school four nights a week, and then I was a broker on the weekends and that started a different company called the Brody Group a long, long, long time ago. Now I know you so long. We're like, you know, in these business for decades now. That morphed itself into what I'm doing today, which is, as you stated, Annex Real Estate Partners. So we're builder developers, just like we've always been. But we realized something out there, and that was that technology was being ignored by the LPs in the real estate development process. So we started a venture capital fund to take risk on those technologies because. And I believe you believe that if we can incorporate technology into the development and construction process, we'll create a better end product. And then, as you said, how do you create an ecosystem? Well, I said podcast, similar to you. I said, how are we going to talk to technologists who want to be Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, to the Neanderthals in our industry, the builders, the developers? I'm not going to say brokers, they're super smart. But us, how are we going to get them to understand how technology is actually changing the game? And then our friend at the Real Deal came to me and said, let's do a little show. So we have a show on construction and development. And honestly, it came from, you know, what you were doing. It was so innovative, it was so interesting. Right. I think that's something that's important. Like, why not talk to people about it? What is that fear? Right? Because no one's ever gonna be James Nelson. I don't care if you download everything in your brain, they're still not gonna be you. So what's the fear?

Mm, no, I appreciate all that, and it's been so fun collaborating with you. And there's just such a need for information out there. There's just not enough great sources. So, you know, talk about that. Like when you were learning how to become an investor developer, were you just learning on the job or were there any sources that you go to? I mean, I know I don't think you went for a master's degree or anything like that. I mean, you basically learned on the job. Is that true?

Yes. First, it was a master's degree of hustle. No, there's no such thing. Right. People talk about our businesses. How are you going to describe what our businesses are? Builder, developer? Can you go to school where they're going to teach you something, give you a certificate that says, hey, now that the complexity of construction and development, you now understand it. Right. It's impossible. Right. So there are very few resources out there for anyone to look at for any of these businesses. We can describe what it is. We can pretend that you need these skills. Still, until you're actually in the arena, none of it matters. So there is a dearth of information that we need, that needs to be produced.

Yeah. And there's no doubt there's no substitute for experience and putting in the hours. But. But my hope with this upcoming book, the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing, is that this will give the readers a roadmap. Right. And it will show you and Take you through the whole arc of the transaction, from finding the opportunity, building the right team, how to reposition, capitalize on it, and then with that, it will help, like I said, create that foundation. So I'm really excited to bring this not only to those looking to get into the business, but I'm even hoping that vets like yourself pick up some things along the way. So the title of the book is the Insider's Edge. What does that mean to you? And assuming you agree that real estate, it is good to have an insider's advantage, what would you say yours is?

So, first and foremost, what I don't think that the general public will truly understand is before you ever wrote a book or before you ever had a podcast, it was years and years and years on the street making deals happen. Right? So you're using the book in order to give your experiences. But I don't know if people understand. Experience comes from credibility, which is expertise, which you have, and trustworthiness. I'm not sure the public truly understands when James Nelson is like, I'm going to create a book, what they're getting, right? This is experience. This is billions of dollars of transactions now saying, allow me, because I have an interest in teaching you about what I've learned, that they should pay attention to that. So to me, the insider's edge is, first, you feel as if the author is a credible party. And I'm not sure there is a more credible party in order to write that book. So what the public doesn't understand is that they should be thankful that you were like, all right, let me stop what I'm doing for a little bit. Write down my ideas as to what I think is relevant to you. Because what I find out there is a lot of people write about it, but never were about it. You were about it for years before you wrote about it. So I think that there'll be tons of tidbits for me. I love reading and I'd love to learn from you. I'm lucky enough to be in this city to get to talk to you when I need to. But what about all the others that can't? They should run out and get the book just to learn a snippet as to what it takes to be successful in this city. And as they say, if you can be successful here, of which you are, you can be successful anywhere. So I hope it's a huge hit.

I really appreciate your saying that. And there are a lot of those get rich quick books out there. And that's not what this is about this is sharing years of experience. And as the broker, I have a unique position because I get to see not only successful developers like yourself, but I see what works and what doesn't work. And so my hope is that this really pulls everything together and make it digestible, but also actionable for the reader. So I'm very excited for this. So what other advice would you give to someone looking to get to start off in the business today? Where would you tell them to begin?

Well, since it's about you, I'm gonna tell them a little bit about you and what I think that you have done for that success. So first is it's not James Nelson, although you are the one who wrote the book. Anytime we have ever met you or you've ever come, there's always 20 people in tow. You have never had this problem of how can I present this information to the next generation in order for them to learn? So when you're coming, you're an incredible leader. Right. So what are the qualities of leadership? Right. You would never think that in a game of brokerage where it's dog eat dog. You've stated, no, let's go counterculture to that to create success. And that was based on leadership. Right. So leadership has a lot to do with really thinking of others before yourself. Right. And that Humility. Humility, humility, humility, humility. Right. So the point is, you've shown that. So if we're, we can't talk about all the traits of leadership, but one of them is you cared about your soldiers in the field more than yourself and that created success, which is very fearful for people because usually it's a give and take. Whatever I give you, then I get back or what can I take from you? But I've always learned from you as a leader is give and karmatically it will come back.

Right.

Which is a huge fear for most people. So I think that to me is a leadership quality that I think we should all follow. And I think that you've embodied in your career, Eric.

That means so much coming from you because I know what a student you are and how you are a continuous learner. And we might meet up at one of your job sites and you got your work boots on, but you usually have a 3, 400 page book, a biography of a famous general. I know you're always looking to improve, so. So really appreciate joining us today and can't wait to get your thoughts on the book. It's coming out in January and so just trying to help spread the word.

I mean, we'll always spread the word. Whatever you need, baby, whatever you need. But look, I wish you the most success with it. I think that the community needs a new book in order to get behind and I hope that it's yours. And it's not a salacious content about New York City. This is a down and dirty what you need to do to succeed. So, you know, best of luck 100%.

And just one last thing, why not tell our audience where to find your podcast? Because I really think it's awesome what you're doing because there is. And maybe you could talk a little bit about how you're looking to advance the industry and how, you know, again we're still the business is more or less still done the way it was maybe when we got into this, you know, 20 plus years ago. So maybe talk a little bit about what you're doing on the show.

Yeah, real estate is a laggard business and when we look at different industries, right, we've got already been successful so why should we have to change? But Corona really told us different or the way in which office is being impacted is saying you really gotta pay attention. Right? So what we're trying to do is by integrating with technology, we should innovate in this space. So in order to find me to hear a little bit more about this, obviously the easiest Instagram, Ebrody, Ebrody Real tech talk on Spotify and Apple, a show on the real deal called the Blueprint. You could just probably Google Eric Brody real estate and you'll find me. And I'd be a pleasure if you reach out to me or whoever it is. And I thank you for giving the opportunity to shout that out, you know, awesome, thanks again.

Hi everyone. Really excited to be here with Alexander Marolda, who is on the Avis and Young's Triceps estate investment sales team Rising star, in fact was awarded Real Estate Weekly's Rising Star award and the New York Real Estate Journal as well. So Alex, today we're talking about how you got into the business. Advice to people maybe looking to get into this. Maybe talk a little bit about your story, you know, how did you find real estate?

Okay, my story I guess is a little unique. I feel like I grew up in the business, so ever since a very young age I would go with my father to the buildings every morning. So on days off of school or for example if it was take your daughter work day, I would go with my dad and kind of just like fell in love with real estate through that and then summer internships and eventually worked on the property management side. I was really just thrown into it. Didn't even. I didn't know the first thing about repairs or plumbing or how a building was run. And I was kind of thrown into the deep end and was told to figure it out. So that's what I did. So I did that for about a year. And then my family ended up selling most of their real estate, except there are a few buildings here and there and they moved their office up to Westchester. So my role became more about building out the office, acquisitions and things like that. And once the office was stable, I kind of decided I wanted to get back to the city. And I think anyone that's run a building understands that it's a 24, 7 job. And as I learned a ton, probably more than I ever expected to learn, but I was definitely ready to kind of see other sides of the business. And I joined Davidson Young shortly after that.

So.

And again from there, like, I had the background, but really hadn't been involved in acquisitions and transactions and things like that. Or transactions, not so much acquisitions, but. And again, it was really learning on the job. Like, we have such a great team, so everyone was super hands on and helpful. And then working with you directly is really where I feel that my knowledge of my career kind of took off and I got to the next level. And yeah, still figuring things out, but definitely feeling a lot more confident today.

Absolutely. And you went to Richmond, right?

Yes.

And what did you study there?

So I went to the University of Richmond thinking I was going to major in psychology and biology actually, and then found out it was a really good business school. So I took some courses. I really liked it and I ended up majoring in. It was marketing and management and entrepreneurs entrepreneurship. So from there I felt I learned a lot, that I could apply to both the family business and outside of that, which I did, definitely took a fantastic negotiations class, but really no technical real estate courses, finance courses, accounting courses, excel courses, which all ended up playing a big role in my current. My current role here. But yeah, so I didn't study real estate. Wish I had. Wish there were a few more courses that maybe I could have honed in on a few skills there. But like I said, everyone's been super hands on and learning on the job has worked out.

That's awesome. And along the way, any courses, books, or anything you found to teach you more about the business?

Well, can I plug your podcast? But I was gonna say I actually did listen to your podcast, so Listening to your podcast, and honestly, you've recommended a ton of resources. I wasn't exactly exploring outside resources before joining Avis and Young, and just seeing what was out there has been really helpful. So beyond just your podcast, but also the white papers that you've written, but there are a lot of resources out there that you can. That are free, some aren't free, but you can really stay up to date on what's happening in the market. And that is probably the most important part of this role.

And I know that you've been wonderful to mentor a lot of women who are looking to get into the business. What advice do you give to them when they're trying to figure out how to learn about the business? And any other advice you give them?

Yeah, definitely. So even though I didn't have. Even though I hadn't taken courses, I definitely recommend, I know that there are some great courses out there. So I've done that. Again, just signing up for those free resources and staying up to date on what's happening in the market. And also, you know, this job, just like I think almost every commercial real estate job, really takes just hard work and grinding and staying focused. So if you have that drive and you have the passion, I think you can definitely excel here. But loving this business is definitely helpful.

Awesome. And I know I've told you a little bit about my upcoming book. How could you not? Right? But when I tell you the title, the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing, what does that mean to you? Why do you think it would be good for someone to have an inside edge, to be successful?

Yeah. I mean, for a long time, I think getting into the commercial real estate world was really difficult. A lot of things were kind of kept close to people's chests. And now, just with technology, there's a lot more information out there, but there is still some things that, you know, you're just not going to learn from an article or even some books that are out there. And I think that Insider's Edge, like, knowing some things, some things that you share that you don't necessarily or might take more time to learn by just doing it yourself. I think that's why that could be a great resource. Like, yes, you still need to do it and put the hard work in, but sometimes having a leg up and understanding different aspects can be really helpful and kind of push your career forward a little bit faster.

That's awesome. And what would you say that your key to success is?

My key to success?

Feel free to elaborate.

I'd say It's a mix of hard work and also surrounding yourself with the right people. I feel very lucky to have had this opportunity with Avis and Young. So just surrounding yourself with people that want you to grow and want you to learn and are going to trust to just throw you into things I think is extremely valuable.

Awesome. Well, could not agree more. And we're so appreciative of everything you're doing and hoping that this upcoming book will be a great source not only to help people getting into the business, but veterans, people like you who've been at this for a while to continue to grow and learn and will be a great resource as you help others get into the business. So awesome. Thank you again for sitting with us today.

Hi everyone.

I'm here with Chad Cooley, who is co founder, managing partner of AWH Partners. Chad, thanks so much for joining me today.

It's great to be here, James.

Wonderful. So, Chad, today, and I know you've been on the podcast before. We both come from Colgate, have spent a lot of great time together, but today we're talking about kind of your story, a little bit about how you got into the business. So maybe you could take us back right out of school. How did you figure out about this crazy business that we do?

Yeah. Thanks, James. Fond memories of those days. Years ago I graduated in 2000, which was the peak of the dot com bubble. Jobs were being handed out like candy in the streets. So I got a job, but it was in an industry that I just wasn't interested in. Consulting had nothing to do with real estate. And I felt like it was just too removed from business, from kind of the heart of the deal that I had a gut instinct that I was going to love. So I used the opportunity during that job, which was about two years, to really do some soul searching. What did I want to do? What did I want to spend the rest of my life doing? And I started reading a lot of industry materials and really started in finance. And as I read more and more, I gravitated towards real estate. And that foundation, which kind of I built over about a year of studying, ultimately helped me come to New York, interview, meet Colgate grads like yourself in the industry, and ultimately led to interviews which eventually led to my first job in the industry. And what I look back on is that really the time I spent thinking about what I was going to be happy doing and the hard work I put in to learn about that business.

That's wonderful to hear. And also like the fact that you were an avid reader and you were out there searching for sources to learn about this business. So again, there are resources out there, but maybe you could talk about kind of the different range and how you're able to kind of stitch this all together.

Yeah, it's a great point. As you know, it's a very broad, very big, wide ranging industry. And I think what is lacking in materials, I was reading now this was 20 years ago and I'm sure there's plenty of new books that have been written and I can't wait to read yours. But the industry itself isn't captured in any place where you can really get a sense for all the different types of opportunities. You and I meet with Colgate alumni or really Colgate students who are about to become alumni about their opportunities in the real estate industry. And it's almost hard to describe, you know, all the places they might go because there's so many avenues. And so what I found years ago in reading was, you know, really kind of certain texts leading me towards, you know, finance, leading me towards certain types of real estate investments. But there's really such a broader industry out there that I think yields opportunities for people of all types.

Good. Well, I'm also very excited to share the findings of my book with you because I also, when I was trying to learn about the business, was searching for sources and I did find, you know, there was textbooks out there and really the theory of real estate investing, if you will. But really hoping that the insider's edge to real estate investing is going to tell people, show people from really start to finish the who arc of the transaction because and I want it to have benefit not only for those starting off in the business, but veterans like yourself who might still, you know, learn to it. Now the title of the book is the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. I'm just curious, what would that title mean to you? Does that kind of resonate that real estate is a bit of an insider's game?

I think it resonates to me as in like, wow, yeah, I do want to learn from an insider. I think after 20 years in the industry, I do feel like I have some inside advantages and there are real elements of the business that you can't just pick up a book and read. You can't just, you know, learn certainly in a classroom. Right. We're in a deal making business where a lot of those skills are learned, you know, just through socialization when you're younger, but through trial and error as you get into the business and you've made more deals than, you know, most people on the planet. So, you know better than most. But it's an art, you know, and there's a, I think a real methodology in my business where we're constantly trying to make deals. We have a real kind of playbook, if you will. Not written down so much, but more understanding what our philosophy is to deal making, what our approach is. But a lot of that comes from trial and error art. And so I think I'm interested in reading your book, but I think it sounds like something I would love to give my analysts in the bullpen to read and really understand what this whole deal is going to look like when they finally see something. Soup to nuts.

Yeah, no, I really appreciate that. And it is interesting to me as a broker, I get to see thousands of different transactions and I kind of have the bird's eye view to see how groups do things differently. Right. And so really trying to take some of the best of and not maybe the secret sauce, if you will, but certainly some advantages which I think can help Again, anyone starting off to the vets in the business. So, you know, Jeb, what would you say, you know, for someone starting off today, Maybe it's someone up at Colgate right now, liberal arts school, Maybe they don't even have that business degree, you know, what advice would you give them today to start off in the business?

I think one piece of advice is people, people, people. You know, it's all about the people. After spending a year reading textbooks, reading all the industry literature I could find, I came to New York. I was not living here at the time, so I came on a monthly or twice a month basis. And what was I doing? I was meeting as many people in the industry as I could, which happened to be a lot of Colgate alumni because we have a great network. But that branched out into other contacts. And those contacts I met were formative discussions, conversations. I was learning about different places to fit in in the industry. But I also was meeting people that I've stayed in touch with over the years and that mindset of building relationships and being someone that people want to talk to and do business with, and that today continues to be a central element to how I conduct business. At awh. We try to be a good partner, we try to be a good counterparty so that people want to do business with us because we believe in the long run that's going to lead to more deals and more success. So people, people, people. It is an industry for the most part, for people who are smart enough to get the mechanics, get the modeling and understanding and how to make a deal from an investment standpoint. But I think the people who really outperform are people who understand this relationship and how to build on that.

That's wonderful and could not agree more. And looking back on the first interview I ever gave my podcast with Bruce Ratner, he mentioned people or teams over 50 times in a one hour interview and I kept asking him, so Bruce, what do you attribute your success to? How did you do it? And again, it just kept coming back to having the right people. That is definitely a central part of the book and not just the type of person but the different roles that you need to be successful. So could not agree with you more and of course above all reputation and working with the right people so well Chad, I really appreciate your coming by and and sitting again and really excited to get the word out on this book. So really appreciate your joining me today.

I can't wait to read it. James, Looking forward to it. Thanks so much for having me.

Thank you.

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