Hospitality Office with Craig Deitelzweig

Welcome.

This is the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing with James Nelson, the principal and head of Avison Young's US Investment Sales Group and his co host Kim Troller from his investment sales team. In this program you'll learn game changing strategies to outperform the market. James will teach you how to source, execute and capitalize on the best real estate opportunities in New York and around the world. Now here are your hosts.

Welcome to episode number 232 of the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. This is your co host James Nelson.

And I'm Kim Troller, also your co host.

And today we are with Craig Deitelsweig and we're going to be talking about hospitality and office and you're going to learn how to turn legacy buildings into modern, in demand workplaces. In this conversation, Craig is the president and CEO of Marks Realty, a vertically integrated hospitality driven owner operator with more than 60 properties across 16 states. And Craig explains why he believes the best office today feels more like a luxury hotel or a favorite restaurant than a traditional tower. And how that strategy has led to full occupancy and strong rent growth.

You'll hear about being hands on as an owner and how smart building, tech and AI can improve operations. Craig shares how Mark Mark's focuses on building its culture as well as staying highly selective and long term in their acquisition strategy. James I was amazed by Craig's attention to detail with his luxury redevelopment projects in Manhattan, especially with his modernization of 10 Grand Central where he's constantly thinking about ways to honor its historic character. But he's always thinking creatively about how to improve the tenant experience as well. Like giving them a private speakeasy, a Mark's Realty branded car, you name it.

Yeah, I mean that's exactly what I was gonna say. The attention to detail and Craig is like personally involved in the look and the feel and then we even. This is definitely a first for the Insider's Edge podcast. Their buildings have a scent so like the aroma and it's like it's, I mean the, the level of detail is really, really impressive and no doubt why they've really separated themselves. But this is a tremendous business as well. They clearly do a lot more than just office here. So we're really looking forward to getting into this conversation and as always, we want to thank you all for joining. JamesNelson.com is the site that we built for you. That's where you can find the show notes, how to connect with Craig and learn more about Mark's Realty. There's also a lot of helpful resources out there. White papers that are posted on Forbes and pretty soon we're going to be rolling out an educational course in partnership with Adventures in Commercial Real Estate. So super excited. And there'll be more updates on that in the near term. So we're going to have a brief word from our sponsor and we'll get right into our interview with Craig Deitelsweig.

Avis and Young's United States Investment Sales platform executes on multifamily office retail development and specialty asset transactions across top US Markets. As experienced leaders in the industry, our integrated national team is here to help you make informed investment decisions. Whether advising on your current holdings or identifying new opportunities nationwide. Our one unified platform is built on unparalleled collaboration and connectivity across 120 full service offices around the world, giving clients direct access to the deepest pools of capital. We put our clients first, delivering tailor made strategies to achieve superior results.

Thrilled to have with us today Craig Deitelsweig who is the president and CEO of Mark's Realty. Craig, thanks so much for joining us today.

Thank you for having me.

Wonderful. So just for our audience and I know Mark's Realty, I believe it's been around since 1915, so a lot of history here and I know you came on board in 2017 and really the company continues to evolve. But just for our audience, maybe give them a sense of the Marks portfolio and your strategy as far as investments.

Sure. So Mark's is 110 years old this year actually. Congrats. Thank you. And we have 68 properties in 16 states. When I came on board we had some great assets but many of them just needed to be, you know, reimagined for the current day. So that's why what I've been really focused on and we have primarily office and retail assets. So we in New York we repositioned 10 Grand Central and that was really the first office property that where we infused our hospitality aesthetic into the office. We've been recognized as being the first to really marry office and hospitality and that product. And that property was really the first time we did that. And that building was 708-3rd previously. And if you know it or knew it, it was the worst building on 3rd Avenue. And we've now made it into really one of the best buildings in Grand Central. So we divorced ourselves from 3rd Avenue. So which was also a key part of the success of the asset.

I know we'll get into it but I have to Ask the question. Because the idea of renaming a building, getting a new address, I mean, how is, I mean, clearly you can name a building whatever you like, but. But actually getting a new mailing address, is that a pretty, you know, simple process of making that happen?

You know, everything in New York is complicated.

Right?

That was simple. Good to know. Yeah, really simple. I mean, we are. Our second address is 155 is 44th Street. Okay. So we have like a brand address and the street address. Perfect.

So I'm excited to get into the actual project specific questions because I know we'll want you to kind of walk through some recent projects you've been working on. Firstly, how has your, your company's mission evolved since 1915? And in terms of markets that you're active in, we know that outside of New York, you're also active in D.C. and Atlanta and maybe a few others. So if you could speak to, to what, how you've evolved and then where you're sort of focusing your time now.

Sure. So. So Leonard Marks Sr. Founded the company and he was really a pioneer. So our cross county center, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it was actually the nation's first open air shopping center.

Wow.

And we also have the first strip center which is in Ithaca. And we still own these properties today. So we've always thought of ourselves as pioneers. So with everything we do, we just kind of want to take it to the next level. So we have our existing legacy portfolio and we've revamped all of that to just be much more in every way, you know, hospitality, like on the retail side and the office side. And then now we've been focusing on just New York. At this moment. We really want to buy our next office building or two in New York. We're actually bidding on some right now, so hopefully maybe by the time this airs we could have share some good news. Yeah, but that's really been our focus. And then in terms of how we run the company, we used to third party everything. So we had third party operators that managed all of our assets. Actually we're more of a holding company when I came on board and then we quickly realized that really no one's better than an owner and managing these properties, rethinking them just being so hands on, which is so important today. And that's really been a big part of our success. Just really paying attention to those details that only an owner can do.

So what are some of the specific benefits to being vertically integrated?

We get better pricing on construction. And also like our construction team knows what's important to us. So for instance, if we're, you know, we're building something, I have a couple of pet peeves. Like it's just, you know, that's not going to happen with our group. Whereas with a third party, it's always a new team and all of that. So it's really that consistency. And then on the property management side, I mean, we've. We only hire people who actually smile, you know, who are welcoming, you know, and that goes down to the doorman, to the house car driver. All of that really is important. And I think just having a really like, wonderful team that works well together and knows how each other works and how best to really push each other, I think is really important.

So you're trying to build like a cohesive unit that's sort of representing the same brand.

Exactly. And we think of it as the Marks brand. And then all of our building brands are their own brands as well.

So this is probably before your time when you join them with the transition, I guess, from retail to office. But, but, you know, just. Just to point out, and yes, I do know the Kraus County Center. I believe on your website you said that you have 220,000 cars that go buy it. I don't per day, but a lot. My car has certainly been one of them.

So we have.

I have been there.

14 million visitors a year. Wow. Yeah.

That is unbelievable. That is a massive, massive number. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, I think New York City's tourism numbers is, you know, at a peak was like 70 million. So you're 14 million. I mean, that's a lot of people. It's over 71 acres. I mean, that's a really substantial retail center there. So I guess the question. And you said you got some retail and Ithaca as well. The decision, I guess from Leonard Marks to maybe at some point start diversifying as opposed to expand the retail footprint even further. Was it kind of at the goal of diversifying or.

No, it was really where the opportunity was. So a lot of our properties we actually purchased during the Great Depression.

Not many people can say that that helps for basis.

Yeah. So 545 Madison. We own that land from the Great Depression.

Wow.

And same as 532 Madison. So a lot of these properties were from that time period. And then we worked a lot with partners who would bring us on board or we bring them on board. And then over time, like 10 grand central we owned with a partner. Then we Bought them out and repositioned the asset. When we kind of just were thinking, you know, you know, there was a time when you could just sort of sit on real estate. And we think those days and thought those days were over. You know, you really have to actively manage these properties and constantly make them the best properties they can be. So that was really our. Our guiding star and still is.

So your decision to at this time to focus on office, specifically here in New York, as opposed to maybe actively looking to pursue retail. I mean, how are you. What's guiding that focus right now? And, you know, maybe not looking at other, say, retail opportunities or other asset classes.

We do look at retail opportunities as well, but in office right now, we just think this is the time. You know, there's really this disconnect in the market. You know, just recently you started seeing some good articles out there about the demand for office. But we've been seeing this for a while and there really isn't much supply. So if you're 150,000 square foot tenant and you want to be in Grand Central, your choices are very limited. And then we also think what we do is very special. And so we create these distinctive spaces that tenants really want to go to. And we've been able to do it in properties that are from the 1920s, 30s, 60s, 2000s. So, you know, we think we're kind of unique in that way. And then bringing hospitality into office, which everyone talks about now, but we really don't think they truly do it. They. There might be elements of it that they do properly, but ours is really more of a holistic approach to the asset and the brand of the asset. And, and if you can do that, we think the demand and the. And the rents you can collect are quite good. So we think that this is a unique time for it. And then on the sales side, you know, pricing is still not great for office, especially value add office, so there's a good opportunity there.

So I can personally attest to the quality of your buildings. And you all were kind enough to host an event that we for. For a charity that I'm involved with. And again, just the feeling when you walk into the lobby and again how you're greeted and certainly the amenity space. And I believe you said we were on the seventh floor that had this beautiful outdoor space, but you didn't get the feeling that you were in an office building, you know, and that was, that was really special. And I think you've said that since then. There's even more amenities. Yeah, we double added on there.

We doubled the pleasure. We say, yeah, yeah. So we have two floors of amenities.

I didn't get a ride in the car, though. I think. I think I got to hit him up for that next.

Anytime we go to Greenwich.

Good, good, good.

So, on that note, let's talk about 10 Grand Central, which is also your headquarters. I believe you decided to reposition this asset in 2018. Correct.

So pre.

Covid. It was before you were ahead of the curve on that. And this is an art deco building, you know, built in 1931.

Was it?

So a lot of developers and investors are terrified to touch historic buildings for obvious reasons. And it takes a very sophisticated investor to properly execute these projects. Can you walk us through the process of retrofitting and modernizing an historic building? Which historic elements do you preserve? Maybe beyond what's required of the. The Landmarks Preservation Commission?

Sure. So. So 10 Grand Central is actually not landmarked, so. So we restored elements of it just because we felt that was the right thing to do. And we think.

Interesting.

So the way we look at office buildings is actually similar to hotels. So just like the. Some of the best hotels in the world are hotels with heritage. We think the same is true with office buildings. So if you could bring in that heritage and that story and that history and you truly have an authentic experience, which everyone talks about, but you can really do that with all the properties. So what we will do is sort of figure out what the building should be. So what we did immediately was we actually looked at photos of the building from that time period when it was first built. And actually the entrance to the lobby was on 44th street, where we moved it to. From 3rd Avenue. So we just moved it back to its rightful place. And if you think about it, it always should have had that connection. And then we put in a. It didn't have presence on the street, so we put in a large canopy. And that, too, you know, had sort of elements from the 1930s that were modern. So we never want to be like Disney World and sort of feel, you know, like we're doing that faux historic. Like everything really needs to be modern. But inspired by the 1930 time period that building was from, so all the elevator cabs we kept, which are really beautiful. And then we had elements that we brought back that were actually gone. That lobby was actually a white marble lobby that looked like every other office lobby in New York at from. You know, that people were doing in the early 2000s. So we brought it back. We got rid of all the White marble, stone, and brought warm elements. So we think that people really react to lighting. So we want all of our spaces to have a glowy light, and you look good in it, you feel good in it. And so we also had all different types of warm elements that were there, whether it's, you know, velvet and leather and wood, lots of walnut wood from that time period. And then. But it really starts from the outside. So outside, there are doormen who are in uniforms, and they open the doors for you, they smile. And then there's a signature scent that we have, and then.

Signature scent.

Signature scent.

Wow.

And then there's music flowing. And then we also were the first to bring an app to the office space. So with that app, that's how you reserve the car, our house car, to take you where you want to go, how you reserve boardrooms and conference rooms to chat with us. You can have food delivery. All of that is really through the app. And then on our amenity space, which we call our club floor, similar to our hotel, and then we have a lounge space on our club floor. And all of our. All of our buildings also have bars, which you don't typically see in an office building. At 10 Grand Central, we're about to announce that we are. We're going to have a speakeasy in there. It's run by one of the world's, like, best speakeasy operators from the Lower east side. And we will. And that will be open to our tenants as VIP treatment. And then guests and outsiders can come as well. And they'll come through the loading dock, so they'll walk past trash, and they'll need a password and a reservation to get in there. And then we did this whole town hall, which you haven't seen yet, but that space was inspired from luxury train cars from the 1930s. So every element of it, if you looked at the ceiling, it looks like train cars from that time period. And then we have. On that floor, we have a giant town hall, a podcast studio, screening gallery, and then various, like, warm seating areas for people to congregate. And by doing this, which is all, you know, the reason we do it is because our tenants love coming to the office because of these things. And when, you know, they tour, they take photos, they post on Instagram, you know, just sort of organically. And these spaces are used all the time. You know, we once had a tenant come and tour, and he thought we actually staged it because it was just so active and alive. And it's like that from morning to night. And that's kind of what today's tenants want. So I think what tenants want has really changed. And we, we thought this is what tenants would want before they knew they, they wanted it.

And so interesting about this and then.

During COVID is really when it kind of tenants realized that would bring their employees back to the office.

Well, we've heard a lot of developers express that all that Covid really just exacerbated all these issues that were already in place. The, you know, the amenities, the well located to public transit, like all, all of these things that are making office appealing now. Like the spaces were already obsolete before and Covid was sort of like the straw that broke the camel's back. So it's amazing that you really jumped on that opportunity before everyone else did.

Thank you. Yeah, yeah. And it's made what we also love seeing, and this is kind of a new thing is all the tenants, but most of the tenants that we leased to during COVID all thought they would be in the office two to three days a week and they're in four to five days a week. So at 10 Grand Central, since we're talking about that building, we've actually had 14 tenants this year who expanded in the building.

Yeah, amazing.

Yeah. And so we're, we're full as a result. But you know, it's just tenants didn't realize how much their employees would come into the office. And we think we have something to do with that. You know, they just like being there and they come in more as a result.

Well, we gotta admit, I'm feeling a little self conscious about our lighting right now. We definitely may need some more velvet and leather in the studio. I don't know, we might have to step up our game, you know. But you know what I was thinking? Clearly there are trade offs with the conversion versus a ground up new built to suit office. Right. So do you think that you've been able to accomplish everything that a brand new office development does? Or are. Is your tenant base saying we don't need all that stuff with the, you know, Florida, you know, ceiling glass or what, whatever it is modern a brand new building could offer, is it just kind of a different tenant base? Are there, are there trade offs, considerations?

It's a little bit of both, I would say. It's a hard question to answer. You know, some of our tenants don't realize we don't at 10 Grand Central where we don't have floor, ceiling, windows, like they'll actually talk to us about like other buildings not being, you know, a New building. Like, like we were just built. So I think it actually kind of almost creates an illusion that this is brand new. And we do it with our build outs of the spaces too. And really, you know, the only difference I would say is there are columns. You just. They just are. But those columns, what we will do is build out the space and almost make those columns disappear. And to the extent we can't have them disappear in the offices and the build out the cafes and the like, what we'll do is we'll actually celebrate those columns and make it like something really cool and beautiful and. And just think about your favorite, you know, restaurant. I bet you your favorite restaurant is not in a glass and steel structure. It's probably in this really cozy space and character. Character. And so that's, that's kind of what, what we really connect with them on. But we also have buildings that are glass and steel. And those buildings too, we do bring in hospitality. And by doing that we've raised rents pretty significantly. So 545 Madison, which is. Was just redone. So we, we owned the fee there and then we kicked out the leaseholder was a ground lease structure. And then we combined the two and then when we did that. But previously the building was repositioned in 2009 so put in a brand new class skin that's floor to ceiling and. But the building was getting rents in the 70s and if you walked on NASA Avenue, every building looked exactly the same. Art had graystone, others had graystone. You know, it was just nothing special. So there we actually found it to be more challenging to bring in those hospitality and distinctive elements. So there, what we did was we made everything. Instead of it all being angular and rectilinear, we made everything circular and so soft and cool and kind of like sexy and curvy. And then we, it's. We entered into an arrangement with Baccarat, the luxury brand. And to my knowledge, it's the first and only co branded building office building with a luxury brand.

Huh.

So in that building we have Baccarat barware. In our bar, we have chandeliers that are worth millions of dollars in our lobby and our amenity space. And by doing that, rents almost doubled from 70 to 135.

So where do you come up with all these ideas? So, so you clearly pioneers 2018. I mean you got a company that's like you said, it's been in existence for 110 years that's really reinvented itself. But where does all this inspiration come from? I mean Was this something that you had. I know you were at Rockrose before when we probably first met, but, you know, is it. You have experience with design. I mean, there's obviously a technology aspect as well.

So.

So how did you all come up with this idea before? You know, some of the. Maybe the biggest landlords town started adopting to this.

I think the biggest landlords in town really kind of get stuck, you know, like, it's hard for them to really do something that's. That's not vanilla, you know. No, it's true. You know, I actually one of more effort.

Right, I'm sure. Yeah.

But also, you know, one of the biggest landlords in town, like 545 Madison. So much. And they hired our architects for that. That property, their. Their property, which was nearby. And. And then I tored it and. And it was fine. And then I asked the architect, I'm like, why is this just fine? Like, what, what. What happened? You know, and they said they wanted to copy us. Like, what. Why couldn't they do that? And what he said was, you know, there was a committee and, you know, there were 10 people making these decisions. And as a result, it just kind of all sort of. There wasn't like a true value engineered out of it.

Yeah.

And the true vision, like, it's sort of like every detail really matters. And I think if you have 10 people working on it, something might get lost in that. It just gets a little muted. So. So I think that's part of it. And then also my background is actually, in addition to Rockrose, I worked at various other developers and private equity firms. And during that time, I worked on hotels, I worked on residential, I worked on retail and office. And what's happened is all of those have converged and what we try to do is take the best of all of it. So actually, at 545 Madison, we. Because it's on Madison Avenue, we want to take some retail elements. And if you look at these retail spaces, they're pretty amazing. You know, they. They're some of the most beautiful spaces. So we are. Doors to 545Madison were from a retailer on Madison Avenue. And we kind of took that esthetic. So it just kind of felt like special and important when you go into the space as an example. And then the Bakar up brand was really helpful too, because, you know, obviously all those beautiful chandeliers, just if we did nothing else, it was going to be stunning. So. And then what we do is for every tenant, when they move in, we give them Baccarat barware as a gift. And again, just kind of keeping that brand and even our house car for that building, we use a Baccarat scent instead of the Mark Sim.

I love the creativity.

Absolutely. The. At the same time you're running a business, I'm sure you're looking at the roi, you know, so clearly it's more expensive to build and deliver what you're building. So I'm sure you looked at kind of the premiums and the rents that you've been able to secure. So how do you make those decisions? Whether you're going to spend a million dollars on a chandelier and know that you're going to get it back, and the rents upstairs and kind of along the same lines, you know, having one amenity space is usually the typical. But to have even more and double up, I mean, clearly you're then taking away leasable office space. So how are you kind of running the numbers at the same time to decide whether or not these improvements are going to pay off at the end of the day?

Yeah. So what we do is we'll actually assume what we think the additional rent will be. And then we also, for these spaces, though we do there is a charge for the spaces. So a lot of these spaces actually are very profitable. So if you determine what the profit is for those spaces because tenants rent them out for parties and all of that, it actually is. It's a very easy analysis. In addition to the additional rents you're getting, it kind of pays for itself. And then also the. The velocity of touring when you have something really special is just, you know, so your downtime decreases markedly. And I think that makes a big difference. And then, and then also we try to, even though we have these beautiful spaces, we try to do it in a way that we're spending money on things that are. That are impactful, you know, so we will spend a lot on, you know, I don't know, a beautiful light fixture. But we might not. We might say, well, that chair is. Just doesn't need to be, you know, $2,000, you know, so we'll be mindful and spend money wisely.

To go back to your point about the app that you've provided for your tenants, it's really interesting hearing about how landlords are engaging with technology and using things like prop tech to improve building efficiency and the tenant experience. What are some other ways that you're using new technology to kind of improve both of those things? And going forward, what are your plans to adopt more technology?

So we, we Think technology should be seamless. Like, it really should just be something that makes your life easier and you shouldn't even have to think about it. So in our buildings, you know, we. Through Bluetooth, you know, that's how you come in. You know, you don't have to take out your phone. It acknowledges that you're there, that kind of thing. And same in the elevators. And really where we're really focused right now is on our elevators. And it's using smart technology in the elevators. So the elevators all speak to each other. So it's not like the. The ones where, you know, what's it called?

Destination.

Destination, yeah. Which I don't like. I think people like control, so at least I do. So. So we don't use those. But what we do have is our elevators actually speak to each other and they'll know that you, at 11:30 go down for coffee every Thursday, and it will hover on your floor knowing that you will be there. So it's a smart elevator and it actually recognizes patterns and it gets smarter over time. So it will. Or on the amenity floor, it knows that a lot of people are there. It will just kind of hover there in the morning and lunch, you know, during the busy time period. So I think that's a really something that, you know, makes the building just run so much more efficiently and you never have to wait for an elevator, which is terrific. That's one. I mean, we also are a little careful because sometimes, you know, you'll go through some technology and then all of a sudden that tech, I mean, things are changing so fast. So you want to make sure that whatever we do has the ability to be fluid and we can change it up when the technology changes so rapidly.

I also know from an operational standpoint, improving efficient, like operating efficiency, a lot of landlords are using prop tech and AI to improve the actual, like the lighting and the heating and the cooling and all of these more like sustainable factors. Is that I. I know you're 545 Madison's LEED Gold certified. Is that something that you're sort of. Are you using technology to improve the efficiency from a sustainability perspective as well? Like, can you speak a little bit to. To how. How that's been benefiting your properties?

Sure. I mean, you almost can't run without technology. You know, like, it's just such a big part of it. So. Yes. And. And in terms of the environmental component of it, by using that technology, you can really measure and make adjustments. We get alerts. All that Type of stuff that really helps. So we right now actually as we're speaking, our head of property management's meeting with this new AI environmental group that has some really amazing data, if it's true. So we're going to roll that out. Usually what we'll do is we'll roll it out on one property and then if it makes sense, and roll it out throughout the portfolio. In D.C. too. You know, we use like DOAS systems air, which are just as healthy, you know, breathing. And actually all of our properties, we, we have really clean air. So. And we have monitors that will measure those air. We actually did it during COVID but it still really helps for the flu and common colds and all of that and can measure all sorts of improprieties. And then through that, then you kind of pump up the fresh air and take out all the bad air.

That's another interesting trend that we've noticed coming out of COVID is the clean air because everyone is, is hyper fixated on, on their. A good thing. So speaking of dc, can you speak about your Herald project? We know you purchased that in spring of 2020 and that was repositioned in 2021, soon after Covid broke out. So tell us about this project, sort of why you pursued this project in dc, what you've accomplished and maybe any lessons that you've learned.

Sure. So we, in all of our properties in dc, they're all geared towards high end tenants that are mostly government affairs, lobbying groups and, and all those tenants want the best space in the best location. And so, so we bought the Herald because it was in a, it's in a terrific location and really had wonderful bones. If you saw it when we bought it, you might not have seen that. You know, the ceiling heights though are, are just tremendous. Actually, all of our properties in D.C. have wonderful ceiling heights, which is in D.C. super unusual. So like on a typical floor, it's about 16ft. Wow. Yeah. So it really makes a big difference. And so tents come in there and just the light pours in and it's just a great volume. And the building has also a really interesting history. So Jackie Kennedy Onassis worked there as her first job and she was inspiring camera girl. So what we did there was every element of the design was based on something she wore. So every piece of furniture was based on a hat she wore or a coat she wore. And we have a book that shows it. And then the floor, which I believe is the only wood flooring in an office building in D.C. is based on her apartment growing up on Park Avenue. So it's the same pattern and like those little details. And then it was also the printing press for the Herald Examiner. So then we also have some printing elements in it, like little patterns that you would see from a Linotype machine and stuff like that. And because it was so special, the building is now 90% leased during a pretty challenging, you know, leasing market in D.C. but it's picked up this year pretty dramatically. But we've been able to get some, you know, wonderful household name brands, tenants in that building. And, and there too, we're having tenants that are expanding. So that's been really great too.

I am just so blown away by your attention to detail.

Thank you.

Amazing.

Yeah. And there too, we did something really cool in the gym, which is we found that men and women don't like to work out together. So we did private rooms that you could have a private workout with, like a peloton or a mirror, you know, Lululemon mirror or a hydro bike. So you could have these private spaces and still work out in your building.

So amazing. So not a surprise then that that Marks has been recognized as one of Crane's best places to work. So I'm sure with the attention to detail that you're showing in the buildings, I'm sure that that definitely is represented at your company as well. So what, what do your operations look like? I mean, again, you said you're in 16 states, over 80 assets. What does that look like? And how have you been able to foster this culture that you have at the company?

You know, it's something that. It really just starts from the hiring. Like when, so when I, when I came on board there, there were some people who just weren't right, you know, And I actually think that's the hardest thing when you, when you come on board a company and like, you just know certain people just don't have what we need today. You know, it might have been different when they were there. So I think it's like getting into the hiring, making sure people understand from the get go what our expectations are. And, you know, the customer is always right, you know, like that kind of stuff. And, and some people just can't do that, you know, and so I think that's a big part of it. And just, I think, you know, we, we really try to, when we don't do something right, you know, we try to learn from it. And I think that's like a big part of it too. And then, you know, I think the junior people learn from the more senior, you know, all the traditional type stuff. And I think we're just really blessed and fortunate that we have a team that just really enjoys working together and really gets what our mission is.

And just thinking about kind of being private versus I mean you certainly have a portfolio that I'm sure would be attractive to the public markets. I mean, just how you all operate and the ownership, I mean, how much of that do you think has an impact on the direction of the company?

Well, I think I was very fortunate. So when I started and told our board of directors what my suggested plan was for then 708 third, they could have easily said like that's crazy. And so I was very fortunate that they understood and appreciated it and gave us, the team, a chance to do that. And then it all kind of builds off of itself. You know, one success builds off of another success. And thankfully we've only had that success. So we've been in a really good spot which also enables us to buy now, you know, so. And, but we do partner with, with different groups as well. The D.C. property, we partnered with Invesco. We also have some long term partnerships for like 60 years that are still partners today. You, you know, many of them. And so, and now we're looking for new partners too. So. Yeah, so on our new deals, like we're bidding with a new group to us and we're excited to work with them but sharing the same vision, you know, they understand, you know, what, what our goals are and all that.

So as we start to bring this to a close, thinking about, and certainly advice for, you know, whether they're students, whether they're undergrads, masters, maybe they're in the business right now, maybe at another shop. You know, how could someone prepare themselves to have the skill set that you're looking for? Because clearly you're operating on a higher level. So what, who would be a good candidate for you all to come in? Whether it's, you know, analysts, acquisitions, asset manager. And what could they do to distinguish themselves?

You know, we look for good people. So, you know, I think that's kind of the number one thing. So, you know, that I think maybe your parents could help with. And then I think it's good to just have all different types of experience. I think you don't necessarily need to come from, you know, office or, or any of the other sectors. I think you can kind of, you know, we, we can teach you all of that. I think it's really just having an open mind. We do like people who will challenge and speak up and sort of, you know, say, what about this? You know, some of the ideas that, that we did actually came from, you know, someone. You wouldn't expect it. And they just said, what about this? And we're like, that's amazing. You know, and it's, you know, and, and so I think, you know, we, we want all of that kind of input. So I think it's just. And on the analy, you know, most of our folks, you know, have some sort of graduate degree in that as well. But. But it's not necessarily required.

And as you think about the future and whether, you know, you have a strategic plan, you know, five years out, 10 years out, what is, what does that look like and how do you set goals for the company to achieve?

Sure. I mean, it really depends on what we buy. So we want to. We're. We're not the kind of group that's just going to buy, you know, 20 properties and then you can't, you can't really make these properties into wonderful assets. So we want to buy in a. In a very sort of careful approach. We are very targeted on where the assets are. We do think location matters again, for instance. And then, and then they. All the buildings have to have those bones. So we have to be able to buy in a way that we can like buy, fix and then, you know, make it humor. And we could probably do two of those types of acquisitions a year, maybe three, depending on, I guess, the size of it and all that. And we're also doing some. Right now we're actually expanding cross county center, so we're adding there about 60,000 square feet of retail and we're doing a whole new green park and parking underneath. So, you know, we always want to make sure that we can focus on our existing portfolio too and just make that our portfolio as great as it can be. So it's having the bandwidth to do that, but as we do more, then the team kind of can do more of it as well because they really get what the message and our theory is for all the assets.

Well, we are absolutely sure that you all will achieve that objective. And I like that, that it's not just growth for the sake of growth. It's being very selective and deliberate about what you're doing and no doubt that shines through your portfolio and with your company. So, Craig, we really appreciate your joining us today and sharing your story and Mark's realties.

Thank you. Thank you both.

Thank you so much.

Craig. Great to be here.

And we want to thank all of you as joining as always. Really the best thing that you can do, and I'm sure you took a tremendous amount away from this discussion as well, is to share this with a friend and put that out there. So as always, you can go to james nelson.com we built this site for you. It's not about me. That's where you can find the show notes for this episode. You can find out how to connect with Craig and Mark's Realty. There's also a lot of helpful resources for that. So until next week, thank you again for joining us.

Thank you for listening to the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. We appreciate your subscribing and sharing with your friends. If you haven't already, please connect with James AmesnelsonNYC on LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter. Please also visit jamesnelson.com where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter, find the show notes, other episodes, exclusive video series and other helpful resources so you can gain the Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. Until next week.

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