Episode 81: How to Find the Right Collaborators and Partnerships in Biotech

Science is hard, but making friends shouldn't be. Let's talk about collaboration where academia and industry can actually get along and maybe change the world. You're listening to Bio from the Bayou, empowering biotech leaders with the tools, assets, and expertise to improve healthcare outcomes.

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Serving the entire Gulf South, but recorded in the heart of New Orleans. Hello, and welcome back to Bio from the Bayou. I'm Dr. Elaine Hamm, the executive in residence at Tulane University School of Medicine. And with me, as always—

Oh, that's me, James Zanewicz, the chief strategy officer at Tulane School of Medicine. And with us is our amazing producer, Ian. Ian, do you wanna say hi?

Hello, hello.

Yay! We always love pulling Ian on mic. He hates it, we love it.

He's the other Ian. He's the other Ian in my life, so.

You have like Ian squared, or—

I have Ian squared.

Or are they multiple? Is it more than squared? Is it like infinite something? I don't know.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, I don't know.

But anyway, we're talking about people, which is our whole topic today. And so non-suckhood or back.

People, my favorite.

Yeah, our favorite. But Elaine and I have collaborated with many, many, many people in the biotech and investor industries over our decades. Ian, that makes us sound old. Why would you write that?

Yeah.

But over our decades of experience, it may be true, but dang. It's true, it gives you experience. We could have just said over our years. You're very wise. I feel like that was a hate crime. I'm not sure. But today we would like to share our tips with you about what we've learned Elaine, do you want to save us and I'll stop saying things?

Yeah, maybe. Although I don't know if I'm the perfect one to talk about it because usually people are like, oh, Elaine doesn't really like people. But I do, because honestly, you need people to move really challenging technologies forward. So the need for collaboration is really important, whether you're in academia and you're wanting to bridge that gap between industry, or you're in industry and are looking for solutions, or for new innovations, collaboration is such a really important piece, part of the piece of the puzzle of innovation.

Yeah, and I guess as you're looking to find your collaborators, you have to start, as we learned in Good Project Management 101 that you made us all go through, Elaine, you have to start by defining your goals. What do you wanna achieve and why are you seeking collaborators? Which is so important because I think a lot of people just go out and start looking and don't figure out what they're actually looking for. And then—

Or they'll get really excited. They'll get really excited about, oh, this is gonna be such a cool collaboration. Yes, but does it, you know, cause mission drift?

Why were you looking at me when you said that?

No reason. It certainly isn't because you get really excited when you meet people that you'd like us to do other things, and then it distracts us from the things that we talked about doing. But it's important, because especially if you're in a startup, I mean, you kind of have to keep focused so that you can spend your money very efficiently. Sorry, not your money, investor money efficiently. And so always think about sort of your first thing is, what is your goal? What are you seeking? Why are you seeking collaborators? Does it help your ultimate thing that you've been focused on for the past year, or does it kind of take you away from your current mission?

And I think on the academic side, it's very similar because, you know, our goal is to help our scientists, our physicians get what they're developing out to benefit patients, whatever that is, however that is.

Yeah.

But, you know, you have to understand what you're seeking and what your goal is. And even for our scientists, sometimes, you know, they're just intrigued by the discovery process. And when you're trying to impact patients, sometimes you have to focus and hone a little more and really understand what exact collaborator will move you forward. But I guess on the flip side, sometimes those collaborators you didn't plan on have the biggest impact because something random and magical happens. Definitely you want to focus, but you also, I think, don't want to be too focused and not miss something amazing.

Absolutely. And once you figure out sort of, you know, I need help on this, it can be a complicated process. So I'll just give an example from one of our current collaborations was that we needed to solve a problem. We're looking specifically at a disease called endometriosis. And we wanted a— really the only thing that's out there currently are these animal models for endometriosis, which aren't frankly all that great because there hasn't been a lot of research investment in moving those models forward. But we wanted to find a less expensive way to screen for a lead compound. And we had to find an in vitro model. And where we looked, we started reading scientific papers. Who is out there doing research specifically on endometriosis models? And we found our collaborator at Tufts University. And he's been such a wonderful partner for us. One thing, though, is our collaboration led to multiple collaborations. To do his in vitro assay, we had to find clinicians that could actually provide human samples to our collaborator at Tufts. And that actually grew to a really great scientific advisory board, which I think we're going to talk about on another podcast of how do you create an SAB. But the collaboration really helped solve the problem for us of how do we screen our lead compound more inexpensively than going right into an animal model? And then how can we make sure that we have that translatability of mouse to human using Human tissue specifically.

Yeah, and so I guess once we've figured out our goals and why we're seeking collaborators, obviously you can start with with Google or as we all do now with AI, which is becoming the new search engine. Say, "Hey, who are the top people in this space?" But it is really a contact sport. Like the internet and ChatGPT, Perplexity, whatever you choose to use, can only do so much. And it comes down to building those relationships. So how do we do that, Elaine? It's your favorite thing in the world to do.

Oh, networking, and I hate it. Yeah, luckily that collaboration I just described. I did by— we did by looking at scientific papers. But sometimes you have to leave your house and put on a hard pant and actually go and have conversations with people IRL. And those are actually the ones that you can find the serendipitous kind of relationships. So going to industry events, going to networking events specific for what you're working on can be really helpful. My co-founder, Dr. Carol Curtis, is at a scientific event specifically focused on multiple sclerosis.

Mm-hmm.

And so she ended up running into one of our clinicians that we've been collaborating with for many years that we've never met in person. And it was such a great experience for her and really helped our project as well. So those industry and IRL events are really important. Yeah.

And it's not just the business events like your BIOS, your BioEurope, your biotech showcases, Fierce Pharma Engages, but it's also, as you were talking about, your Society for Neurosciences, your academic conferences, because you have industry and investors there, but also the academic and clinical pieces that you need for your disease state, whichever one you're in, there's a society For that in some capacity and some size where you can really go network, learn more about your field, but also find those people who might be collaborators to help you move things forward.

Yeah, and not just collaborators, but potential resources. I mean, we've met with, you know, the National MS Society and they have a lot of resources that we were able to leverage. And we wouldn't have been able to, I mean, we could have looked up on the internet, but having a conversation with someone at BIO really helped open our eyes to the types of things that they could offer us.

Yeah, and I think the important thing to note with these is some of them have formal partnering where it's like online dating. And I always get really sad when they tell me no, and I feel hyper-rejected, just like in real life. And you get super excited when they say yes and take a meeting with you. But sometimes they—

It's so true, though. It is.

It is. It just crushes my soul.

Like, they swiped— is it left or right? I haven't been dating.

That's a good thing for your husband.

Yeah, it used to be a bad thing if I knew exactly which one it was. But it really is a little, little soul crushing when they reject you and then they don't even give you a reason. That's kind of, kind of frustrating. But those types of partnering systems, I love conference events that utilize that because it makes the meeting more worth it to me in a lot of ways, because I know that I will have a meeting with this person when I go there. And it's not just like, well, will I find them in the hallways and while they're drinking coffee and approach them like a weird stalker?

Yeah, and I think we have 2 podcasts to help on this. We have one on how to partner and use systems, which is great. We have one just on Partnering One if you're using a Partnering One system. We have one on general partnering, but also for ones that don't have partnering systems or where they have receptions that someone like James drags someone like Elaine to, we have a whole podcast on how to network as an introvert.

Absolutely.

And so I think we should link all 3 of those so people, we don't have to dive into that now, we've done it before, but for folks who are curious about this aspect, We got 3 tools for you that Ian's gonna link in our show notes.

That's right. Yes, yes.

He always loves when we do that. We're like, hey, go back and listen to this one. It's a perfect time. Got all of the links in there.

Absolutely.

And with that, you know, in addition to a conference that has partnering one, if you're doing internet searches, ChatGPT, also LinkedIn is huge.

LinkedIn is great.

We should maybe do a whole separate podcast on LinkedIn at some point and how we utilize it.

It sounds lame, but honestly, I have found potential consultants or people to work with just by literally searching, using the search function of LinkedIn, And finding out, you know, does someone work in this? And I might have, I might actually already be connected to someone that is in that, or they might know somebody and I'll reach out to them and say, hey, I see that you're friends with so-and-so and that they're working on this. Could you provide an introduction? So it is a potential asset to find collaboration.

Yeah. So say we've either gone on our in-person coffee date at a partnering conference or reception or a digital coffee date through LinkedIn or found through, you know, ChatGPT, Google, and done an email. The next, I think, most important thing is that cultural fit.

That's hard.

You're like, you're laughing. So you've had good and bad ones, Elaine. Can you talk about why that's so important in a partnership? Because I know you've experienced it both ways.

I have, I have. And, you know, sometimes you just, you, a check is a check and you want, you want to move the project forward and you take that check. But with check comes obligations. And when you take money from people, you, you get into a relationship with them. And so you really have to make sure that their goals are your goals, because it can be really challenging when you're, you're in a project and you realize that they're not aligned. And sometimes if you realize that they have a much larger focus for their company and this is sort of just like a little fun project for them and it's your whole world, that can be a misalignment as well.

One of the ways to do that is leveraging those long-term relationships that you and I have really focused on building, like your authentic, genuine relationships that you maintain even when you don't need anything from each other, because that's where you can say, hey, I'm looking at doing business with this person. What have you heard? What do you know? Or do you know anyone who'd be a great partner for me on this? And a lot of times things you don't know, your network does.

Yeah. Or even the partner themselves. I have always asked people, you know, have you done deals with startups before? Have you done deals with universities before? And who with? And then you go have conversations with those people and say, hey, how was it? So that's a— you go do some diligence on that and make sure. But I think really what it comes down to, and this is probably true for every relationship, is, is having very clear communication from the very get-go of understanding and ensuring that both sides understand the goals, everyone understands the timelines, and that everyone's, you know, really has the same expectations. And, and then really having the hard conversations right from the get-go around data sharing, IP rights, all of those things that can sometimes sour a relationship if you don't discuss them at the very beginning.

Yeah, 100%. And I've always said those relationships are so key. And a lot of those relationships that anyone anywhere can foster are with academia. And this is the thing I'd like to leave us on is how— I'm biased, but you should always consider partnering with a good academic partner for your early-stage discovery because we have a lot of intellectual heft that can help companies do that early-stage heavy lifting.

Yeah, and those are some of the most exciting and fun projects too, I have found. But if you've worked with one university, You've worked with one university. Every university is just a little bit different. So when I find an academic collaborator, the very first thing I do after, you know, we've decided, we've gone on that coffee date, we might want to, you know, move in together, is I have a conversation with their university administration. So, you know, people like you and me, the technology transfer office, and I try to understand how are they set up. So is the tech transfer office under the Vice President of Research? How is legal incorporated in that? And figuring out who, what their roles are and understanding, hey, if we do a press release, who do we go to? I really set out from the very beginning and just, and asked them to describe to me, you know, how they're set up so that I know how to navigate that. And then it is important to have offices like ours because we sort of really serve as the consigliere of helping industry partners navigate the university so they can, they can come to us and then we can figure out, oh, you need an MTA, we know exactly who you need to talk to.

I love that you were consigliere in there. It's one of my favorite words.

I kind of—

Valerie McDevitt taught me that back in the day when she was interviewing for a job, and she's like, you know about this because you're one of my consigliere. And I was like, what's that? It sounds fun. It sounds kind of evil, but it's not.

Anxious. And I got anxious to say it because I'm like, oh, don't, don't, don't trip on this word. And are you saying it right? So I'm like, don't say it wrong. Concierge is another word too that I also like. But it really— having someone that can help you navigate that is so important. But on the industry side, so, you know, I'm kind of between worlds. I, I, I work with academia, but I'm also hoping to work with large industries. It can be really complicated, especially if you're, if you're working with a large, large, large company and they have multiple divisions. But it can also get even more complicated if they're not, you know, a company that's located in your country.

Mm-hmm.

And so you have to, have to really understand sort of Potentially cultural divides. And so I've worked with people that are on the American side and they've really helped me navigate the larger international side of their company. So finding those people on the inside that can both serve as a supporter and also a guide.

Yeah. So, so not just that, that concierge or that alliance manager. And I, I feel like, and tell me if I'm wrong, but prior to coming to work with, 'cause you're also inside academia now, prior to coming to work with us at Tulane, I feel like you had said, I'm never going to work inside academia again, and we won you over because of Dr. Leeham, our Senior VP and—

No relation.

Yeah, no relation to Elaine. She kind of wishes, but no. But because he is so forward-thinking in this space, and he's our Senior VP of Health Affairs and our Dean of the School of Medicine, but what he has for his vision is so incredible, and he's so supportive and really created this interesting model where we wrap around Our intellectual property management innovation institute group and really fill in gaps for our faculty in medicine and biotech at the School of Medicine and at the Primate Center and support them in all areas, not just in inventions, but also in positioning them as key opinion leaders, all the things we do. And I think that's how we won you over. Is it? Is that, or was it just me?

I think that you win people over more than anything. But I mean, you did win me over in coming back to academia. But I also found, I mean, it can be hard to work with a university and hard— harder to work in a university because universities are large. And so it feels like you're You're trying to pivot a cruise ship sometimes, and you just want to move faster like a little speedboat. And so I found that what I liked about Tulane is that it felt faster. It felt like they were more willing to be flexible. And so I have really taken that when I look at potential academic collaborators, or like, how easy are they to work with? Because I've had some really challenging universities and some really fantastic universities, and I always go back to the really fantastic universities.

That's a great thing, I think, to leave on. So you have Tulane as one of those, our colleague up the road, LSU Health, right next door. Next, next door, Allison Best at the University of Mississippi. Also next door but closer, Kadesha Akinpalumi at Xavier University of Louisiana. We've got some really great partners. And then of course, Patrick Reed, who abandoned us and is up at Auburn now.

Right.

So we always say he abandoned us, but he's also a tremendous partner who approaches collaborations with this mindset of, you know, what if we, or how can we, versus, oh, the rules say no. And I think that's what you want to look for. Is it, is it a place that abides by rules and says no, or is it a place that says maybe not that, but here's what we can do, and figures out a way to make things happen?

Absolutely. And also to remember that collaboration isn't just about funding. It's about really bringing great science to life and making that real-world impact. And so if you're in academia, industry is not the dark side, I promise. I mean, there's I think everything has a little bit of a dark side.

I'm in many industry groups, and I love them, and I feel like we could learn more from each other, and we should engage more than we do.

And vice versa. I mean, some of my most energetic projects I've had, things that energize me and remind me why I got into, you know, the job that I have, are the collaborations I have with academia. So, you know, if you're in academia, start exploring ways to connect with industry. And if you're in industry, think about how collaborating with academic researchers can really help drive innovation and differentiate your company, because you never know, just, you know, That next conversation you have could be your next big breakthrough.

And to be able to collaborate, I think folks should check out groups like the Bullpen, like BIO, like AdvaMed, like the Alliance for AI in Healthcare.

There's so many different— and you know what would be a good plug is go to our new bioplanner that we have. If you're looking for ways to engage with people and find the conferences that make the most sense, go ahead to the new program that we've started. James, do you want to talk about that?

Yeah, it's thebioplanner.com. So it's T-H-E-B-I-O-P-L-A-N-N-E-R.com. With no www, but it picks up from the old McDougall Life Science Calendar because McDougall closed their doors last June. And what we— our amazing BD associate and his team of interns, Alexis Decote, Dr. Alexis Decote, I should say, he earned his PhD and I always want to do that. But, you know, they scour for every conference in life science, healthcare, medtech investment around that. And if they've missed one, they have a form where you can submit any conference you see. And it's a running conference going like a year plus out. where you can filter by, you know, what kind of conference does it have partnering? You can see that. You can see, say you want to go to Barcelona, you can filter, hey, what's in Barcelona this year? Is there anything worthwhile that I can make a trip and maybe tack on a couple days? It's a really great tool for anyone in this space to plan their business development, to plan their partnerships, and to meet the right collaborators in biotech, the topic of today's episode.

100%. And remember, science isn't done in a vacuum. Go out there and start having conversations. And if you have thoughts or experiences on scientific collaborations, Please go to our LinkedIn page and comment on it when we post this podcast and keep the conversation going. And I think that our next podcast that we might be doing might be focused on how to take those collaborations further and how to set up a board of directors. How do you set up a scientific advisory board? So stay tuned on that side.

Yeah, and I want to say, in addition to all that and all the show notes that Elaine just mentioned, keep an eye out for BIO in the Bayou coming back October 28th and 29th of this year. If you go to bioonthebayou.com, you can actually reserve your hotel room now, and I think the rate is like $139. It is a steal. And it's right before Halloween in New Orleans.

I mean, that's the perfect time to come here.

And plus, you get to see us in person. And who wouldn't want to do that?

Oh, lots of people.

Do you have any words of wisdom as we leave today, Elaine?

No, I think that's it. Keep the conversation going, reach out and collaborate. I think that's it.

Yeah, thanks for listening, everybody. Please, you know, like, share, subscribe, all the things. We love that. Thanks for joining us for Bio from the Bayou, and we hope you'll join us again.

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