Episode 88: Transforming Medical Communication with the Healthcare Social Media Academy

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Welcome back to BIO from the Bayou. I'm James Zanewicz from Tulane Medicine and your host for today. And my guest today is Dr. Adam Goodkoff. Adam is an online medical influencer in his own right, as well as the CEO of Medfluencers, a medical social media marketing agency. I'm really, really excited to have him as our guest today because Chilling Medicine has been collaborating with him as he develops his latest project, the innovative Healthcare Social Media Academy, or HSMA. The Healthcare Social Media Academy is an incredible tool to help educate doctors on how to develop and amplify their social media presence for maximum impact. And I want to welcome you to the show, Adam.

Thank you so much, James. I appreciate it.

It's good to see you as always. And before I dig into your personal background, I want to dive a little bit into the Healthcare Social Media Academy with a 3-part question. So what is it? What inspired it? And what impact do you hope it has on healthcare providers and those patients? And you can take those in whatever order you want.

I appreciate that. Let's start with number one. What is it, right? Healthcare Social Media Academy, which you Teed it up really well. It's an online academy. It's a course that actually offers healthcare professionals CME, and they go on and they learn all of the basics from what the heck is social media and how do I make a profile through really complex deep topics like what I call MISIF, Maximum Impact Short Format Content Creation. We go through knowledge translation skill set for digital format. We get into deep editing techniques. So it goes really deep. And truly the goal was to create a full package where someone could come in and not understand social media and potentially have never opened the app to actually being quite proficient at making engaging and compelling content. The what inspired part, I think, is a nice transition because a lot of folks misunderstand this space. They look at healthcare influencers as influencers, like a skincare influencer, a bikini influencer, right? This is really different. And, you know, we were just together at a conference and I was talking about this. These are healthcare educators. These are people who are passionate about education. And what inspired this? Well, I've been an educator my whole career. I actually extended medical school by a year because I took that year off to do a teaching fellowship in ultrasound and anatomy. So I was teaching the first and second year students. I've loved teaching my whole career. And really, medicine is one big opportunity to teach your patients and teach among your peers. And so as we move into this digital space where folks are creating and consuming content in many different fashions, particularly short-form video, It becomes more and more important to add that tool to your toolbox as a as a way to communicate, whether that's with patients or whether that's with your peers. So it to me it felt like an opportunity to give back some of the skill sets that I developed over the last you know almost ten years now on on social media and and give that to some of my colleagues as a chance to to drive impact there. It really leads into the the last part of that question, which is you know what is my hope for the impact? I hope that we have better, more accurate content across the board, across the specialty for patients to access and for other H. We, we see these stats, you know, Medfluencers just released some statistics. We did it last year. We did it again this year. You know, the one that's most compelling to me, last year we found that 86% of the docs we talked to said that patients were bringing content up in a clinical setting. So they were actually bringing a video up in the office. And I thought that was crazy high. We ran that question again in this year's poll. We haven't actually released this number yet. It was over 90%. So it continues to rise.

Yeah.

So essentially—

People come in and say, here's what I'm seeing. Tell me more about it. Oh, wow.

That's right. So they're, they're doing this and, you know, Edelman just put out a big study and actually it's kind of on the scary side. They put out this study that said, well, patients are seeing this content. They're actually misidentifying it as accurate. And they're reporting now, it was like 30-something percent were reporting that they've actually had harm from the content that they've, they've followed, or they have chosen to follow advice that they saw off social media over what their physician told them. So, I think the time is now more than ever to get on social media as a clinician to provide accurate information. It's not about being an influencer. It's not about going on vacation for free. It's, it's just about communicating with an audience and sharing your expertise.

It's being a good doctor in many ways and reaching your patients in a different way. Well, I'm not, I'm not going to let you dash by this. You said you spoke at a conference. You were the closing keynote speaker at Fierce Pharma Engage, the medical affairs. I want to brag on you for a second. Really, really incredible. And they had to— I'm just going to brag on Adam. They had to actually stop questions because it was going so far into the next session and they're already making plans to have him back for something else. So that was— I really enjoyed that. And the stats you have, those kinds of things. If anyone gets a chance to go to a conference and see you speak, they should. Going to brag on you for a second.

You're too kind. I appreciate that. It was, it was a lot of fun, a really, really engaged audience. And that's, that always makes for a good time.

I'm always genuine. If I had negative feedback, I'd give it to you too.

I would hope. I would hope.

Ian's like, yes, that's true. All right, well, turn But getting back to the topic today, what are some of the key skills or strategies that you want to impart to medical professionals through the Social Media Academy?

If there was one skill, it's actually more of a message that I'd have. And there's, it's that there is no rocket science here. This is something that you can do. You do have the time for it. It's not too hard. It's not too weird. People aren't gonna think something about you. They may, right? But that you can't control that. But it's truly not rocket science. And that's what we do and break this down. And there's, there's not one single skill that we give you in the course. We really build your whole toolbox for building an online digital persona and footprint, if you will. And you'll learn everything from how do I write a script? What— where do I pare down the messaging to make it engaging? How do I use the apps to edit?

Right.

I've never opened Instagram. How do I use this? How do we— you know, we just released an update for the new Instagram Edits app. So how are you— if you want to edit in that, how do you use that? You know, we brought my editor a long time. I think he's maybe 7 years editing for me now. We brought him into the course and actually he's got modules in there. So you're getting literal industry-leading editor experience as you take this course. And we go into some of the the kind of nuanced things too. You know, we have a whole module on wellness, which I think is such a frustrating word as a resident and a learner. But as you get out, you realize that that is a real thing. And especially on social media, you hear about burnout, you hear about the mental health issues that come with it. And so we, we tackle that. So I think you leave with a really comprehensive toolbox and a set of skills that you'll need to excel on social media.

Yeah.

And so it really is helping people to communicate. And social media is changing the way that patients and providers communicate with each other, whether it be Instagram, LinkedIn, more and more we're seeing, which I learned from you as part of your keynote for physician content. But how do you see platforms like the HSMA shaping the future of medical education and healthcare communications? Because obviously it can have a tremendous impact. Where do you see its influence going?

So I think what's really special is people will look at the declining attention span in America as a negative right now, but I look at it as an opportunity. And I say all the time that Educators, our job is really to entertain, right? We need to make learning fun. We need to make people engaged in what we are speaking about. And so I think right now there's this huge opportunity to capitalize on the way that we are changing learning consumption. You know, medical students for years have been slowly and slowly going to less and less lectures, which really bothered a lot of lecturers. And I remember, you know, prior to my teaching fellowship, I was just, you know, a regular student. And I felt bad because the physicians would get frustrated that they're coming in to give a lecture and no one's there. But on the flip side, I also would think to myself, well, you haven't been in this seat for 15 or 20 years, and this is a different game now. There's so much more to learn. This is so much more complex. And I think you're fantastic. I'd love to sit here, but that's not the way my attention span works, my workflow, the volume of info, right? And so it's change. And I think medicine is very slow to change. And I see Healthcare Social Media Academy as an opportunity to push that change forward and get more people excited. I think, You know, you kind of touched on something, but it's not just about making digital content online. It's a way that we communicate. And that's what I teach in the courses. I alluded to, you know, MICEF, which is one of the factors or formulas that I apply to help get folks speaking more clearly. That applies to your patient care. You know, I always say I'm— when I'm working in the ER on a shift, I get to educate 20 different people because I'm going in and out of those rooms having micro conversations and really having to deliver important information. And so what closer to that than social media, you know, 30-second videos?

Absolutely. And it's, it is a tremendous skill, I think. And it is the way, if it's the way that patients are getting information, you have to train physicians on how to do that effectively. Otherwise you have that huge gap and we're getting the non-expert influencers that people are listening to, which results in that scary stat that you gave earlier, that 34% who have actually received harm because they believed something they saw online that wasn't backed up by science or medicine. Yeah.

And it's, it's unfortunate because that number, you know, and I, I would, it's not my public comment, but I read that number and I actually thought, God, that's lower than I thought it would be, which is, which is a really scary thing to say, but being active on social media and seeing what's out there, you know, I, there's horrible content. I mean, horrible misinformation. And actually, like, I'm not saying 30%, 34% is good, but it could be a lot worse.

But maybe a lot of people aren't saying what, you know, they didn't admit it.

Right, right. Yeah, there's a level of embarrassment with some of those trends. So. Yeah.

Well, I want to pivot now and talk more about you because Ian does extensive research and found something really great that we saw. And I believe it was another podcast where you talked about the trade, which was your decision to trade time as a career medical professional for what was then an uncertain path forward in healthcare marketing and seems to have worked out fairly well. But what was the defining moment that caused you to take the leap from being an ER doctor to this path that has made you one of the most recognized medical professionals on social media?

Thank you for, for doing the research. It makes me feel nice. It was, it was on a podcast. It was a really interesting discussion that, that got, got really deep, but it gets to the core of, you know, why, why did I do this? And folks say that all the time. You know, you could, you could go do, do a classic career in medicine and all of the things that go along with it. It was kind of like a slow slipped down a sand dune, if you will. And like, you never really, you lose perspective on how deep it is, how far down the walk is. And I'm thinking of, I don't know if you're great with geography as well. Like there's this place in Michigan, just outside of Chicago, and it's a sand dune that folks will try to hike down. Right. But it's actually like 3 miles and almost vertical. And they, they charge like a ridiculous fee to rescue because they tell you not to walk.

So anyway, sidebar. Don't do it. So everyone doesn't.

Yeah, exactly. But, but I think in a way, social media was that, right? Everyone said, don't, Don't do this. And I started out and I just wanted to educate and I made the content. And then all of a sudden the audience starts growing and you feel a level of guilt. You're like, well, I can't stop now because these people rely on me. They come and ask me questions and I know that I can do more and I know this is helping. And then, you know, I developed a national audience, an international audience. We have folks from India reaching out all the time saying, I use this to study in medical school. So there becomes this level of responsibility, right? And as I was finishing my residency, I treated a very rigorous program. Specifically clinically, it's known for putting out docs that are very clinically competent because we just, we work a lot and in high acuity places. And so, you know, I left that program having a great experience and but also realizing the tradeoff that that level of work took. And I couldn't do both and I was doing both. I'll be honest, I had, I would say, a bad time in residency because I was doing 2 jobs. You know, I was, I was making content as a full-time content creator and I was working 90 hours as a resident or 77, whatever it was.

Yeah.

And I realized I couldn't do both forever. And there are a lot of really amazing ER doctors, and I love practicing medicine, and I actually love it even more now that I get to do it a little bit less. It makes it even more special. But I realized I couldn't do both exceptionally at the same time. You could still be a great physician, but I wasn't going to go on and be a leader and publish and join committees, and I didn't have the time to do that. And on the other side, I felt like I was uniquely positioned to have serious impact on social media. You know, at that time, Medfluencers as an idea had, had really started to develop. There were other physicians I'd connected with who I thought I could support and help in this space and define what this space is. And there was, there was a risk component. You know, I had many conversations with my dad where, you know, he'd be kind of talking to me and saying—

I'm sure he's like, what are you doing?

You know, I remember all that medical school and you're playing online. Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, and, and there was a question.

Sounds like my dad.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, like any good dad, right? You know, looking out for me and, you know, hey, is this really the right move? But there was just something about the impact that I could have. And it was, you know, again, very fortunate at the time. I had grown to over a million followers on TikTok, and it was kind of undeniable by that point. It was, especially during the pandemic, you know, it was going on national news and it's like, okay, there's something here, right? We just have to really hone in and figure out how we can make this sustainable and what, what we can affect as change. So. It was definitely a leap. It was risky. But I agree, it's been, you know, one of the most rewarding things that I've done. Yeah.

And this will probably be dropping sometime near Father's Day. So let's give a shout out to dads. Hey, Rich Zanewicz, shout out, Dad.

That's right. Yeah. Shout out to Dad. Hopefully he's enjoying a nice cup of coffee or something on the porch.

Nice. All right. So you only have like 47,000 jobs, as we just kind of talked about. So how do you balance that patient care with Medfluencers, Healthcare Social Media Academy, other things that I know you have in the works? How do you balance your time there now? And what kind of impact do you think you can make with that digital influence that you can't with traditional patient care?

That's a really good question. And the first part's a little easier, and I kind of get to cheat on that now. If you asked me a year ago, I used to say, well, everyone's got the same 24 hours in a day, right? And I really was very, very strapped in that, in that time because it's a lot of jobs and there's only so many hours. And I was doing night shifts to make it work.

And in multiple cities, as I recall, right? You were going back and forth between New York and D.C.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. But I, uh, you know, you know, so I, I never started true full-time. I started, I think, like 2 or 3 shifts less than full-time for ER. And then there was kind of like a slow crossing of the curves there where I slowly decreased the volume of shifts and obviously continued to increase the hours invested in, in the extracurriculars, if you will. And I always balanced that by doing night shifts, which is not a great balance and not a great lifestyle thing. And so it wasn't really until this year that I had a I always call it internally with our teams. I say, take a, take a long, hard look in the ugly mirror and ask yourself the hard questions. And, you know, I started to say, am I doing the best for my team at work? Am I doing the best for me and my relationship at home and with my fiancée? And am I doing the best for my patients, you know, by being this overworked and underslept and, and so forth? And so, you know, I made the decision to pull some of those hours back a bit. And I think that's really helped from a balance perspective for me. And I always recognize when I, when I have these conversations, a lot of docs will listen and they tune out at this point. They're like, Oh, this guy doesn't work. You know, of course it's nice to go on social media and it's, it's not that, right? I work less, but it was a slow transition. And much like an academic, you know, later in their career will work 2 shifts and they're, you know, publishing papers and mentoring students. And I'm not, not to say that I'm doing the same type of work, but I think it's similar, right? Where I have found the balance on number of shifts per month that I feel, of course, I'm, I'm competent and I'm, you know, safe with, with patients, but I'm also, you know, getting the fulfillment that I need from that. And balancing the quality of life around it.

And it helps keep you current because it's hard to be a good, you know, make good content unless you still have, you know, your feet on the ground or in the ER in your case, so that you can balance a little bit of both.

Exactly.

Well, looking back on your journey, because now, you know, you're several years into this, what are some lessons that you've learned that maybe you can impart to younger you or, you know, people who are seeing you now and want to be like you about merging medicine, social media, and business that you wish you had known before?

Oh God, I should probably write a book about it. I think we all, we all probably feel that way at some point. I, you know, I think I'm at the beginning of my journey and there's, there's still a lot to learn. God, there's a, you know, they tell you this at the beginning of ER residency, probably all residencies, but they say, remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint. And I would say the same as it relates to business, as it relates to social media. And we talk about this a bit in the course actually, but I still remember when I started my Instagram, which was the first platform that I was on. I was, I was sitting in a hammock in West Virginia where I went to medical school, and I was on the phone with my now editor. And he said, I really think you should get on Instagram. And I remember saying distinctly, well, there's this guy, Dr. Mike, and he's already so popular. I have no chance, right? There's no shot I'm ever going to get an audience here because he already exists. And he said, no, I think that just means there's people that will listen to the content.

We should try.

Right. And we tried. And we tried and we tried for months and nobody listened, you know? And I looked at it as a marathon. I said, you know, I'm never going to be that size, but maybe if I just keep going, I'll build a following of people who like what I have to say. And that was true. And that, you know, over time that we developed an audience. And I think every time we made a change in our content, it really took that strong internal compass to say, hey, this is a marathon, not a sprint. We're going to see a change, right?

Mm-hmm.

We're, we're going to lose some followers. We're going to lose engagement around this change, but it's what we feel is right at our core. You know, myself and my friend Josh, who does the editing, we think we need to make this change, right? And we would stick with it. And I think being less reactionary is probably one of the best things that social media taught me because it is such an instant gratification platform. And that's something, you know, I always tell folks I pull a lot of things from the ER into my business and teach our staff that helps with efficiency and flow and stress. But there's a lot of things I've pulled from running a small business, social media into the corporate side that that I have learned and been able to carry over. And that's one of those, you know, you don't need the instant gratification. It is a marathon and there's, there's something to be said for consistency. Yeah.

And you can, you can take, because people on social media feel very empowered to say whatever they want and you have to take some of that with a grain of salt and digest it before you do anything, right? Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm sure you can, you can appreciate this in the business world. There are many times where it is much more valuable to take a few minutes and a deep breath than it is to respond immediately. And I think You know, that, that's, that in itself is, is a, a good reminder.

Absolutely. Well, I know we're getting close to time. I'm getting the high sign from our producer, Ian. So I want to ask if you have any final thoughts to leave us with today.

Oh, I've got a lot of thoughts, James. We can talk about it. I always love catching up with you.

Likewise.

And, and I think, you know, my, my one take-home really, though, as it relates to the partnership that we've been able to, to be engaged in and the support that Tulane Medicine has had for us is, Just to the, to the HCPs who may choose to listen to this, and even the non-HCPs who are, are social media curious, if you will, get out there and give it a try. We're past the stage— if you asked me 3 or 4 years ago, you know, I got, I got grilled in residency for being on social media. It was abnormal. We're past that. You know, there are a lot of doctors on social media, nurses, nurse practitioners, PAs, physical therapists. I mean, I could go on and on. And we're now seeing CEOs and administrators and other folks getting on social media. So I think the time is now to, to learn these skills, to build your digital footprint. And if you decide ultimately it's not for you, that's fine, right? But make yourself familiar. And I think, again, this mindset 3 or 4 years ago of, oh, an influencer is a waste of time. I can't justify the spend on this. I don't want to spend the time. I think that's gone, right? And if, if you're listening to this and you still feel those ways, I think you need to have a look in that little ugly mirror that I, that I talk about and, uh, and ask yourself if that's accurate, right? Because, because how many more of these large associations could roll out statistics on the value? before it opens your eyes. And I think this is— it's been great. You know, I really appreciate you having me on for this discussion and kind of shedding light on the value of social media and communication in healthcare on social media. And I'm really excited to see what the future's got and what the other HCPs that get involved are going to bring to the table.

And while it is the Healthcare Social Media Academy, there are principles that anyone could take who's adjacent to science.

Absolutely.

Anyone around there could learn something from it. And so I'd encourage anyone to check it out. And we'll have, of course, All those things linked in our show notes. Our amazing producer Ian does that for us. Want to thank you again for taking time out of your day to talk with us. I know you, you know, you're balancing a lot of things, and we always appreciate you tossing us in the mix. We're excited for the impact that the Healthcare Social Media Academy is going to have at Tulane in collaboration with our partner of LCMC Health, our hospital system, all of our providers, and most importantly, our patients. That's what we're here for, and it's giving them access to information so they can be better informed, which is why we all do What we do is ultimately that patient, which is great. As always, we're going to have contact info, informational links, all those things in our show notes. I encourage everyone to check them out to learn more. And thanks once again, Adam.

Thank you, James. I appreciate you having me on.

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