How Windsurf Built A Billion-Dollar AI Leader and a Winning Sales Machine

Okay. I think, you know, we talked about 3 topics that we want to spend time on. 3 people when you joined less than 12 months ago. How many people are in go-to-market today? And let's talk about a bit of how those people landed at the company.

Yeah, we're at about 75 in the go-to-market organization today.

Only 3 to 75?

Right.

Okay, so 3 to 75. Like how did you grow the team so quickly?

Yeah. And I mean, like for any, I'd say for any founder listening to this, like you hire a sales leader that doesn't have 4 to 6 people that can basically text and get into the seat in like 4 to 6 weeks, probably even sooner, let's say 4 weeks, then like maybe not ready to be a sales leader. And if you want to be a sales leader and you don't know who those 4 people are, I'd say think about it. So I mean, a lot, like a huge amount. I mean, so much. So much respect and admiration for my leadership team because they are doing a lot of their direct recruiting. Like me, them, we have contracts with a bunch of outside recruiters and like this has been the case everywhere I've ever been. I think no one can sell the opportunity as well as you can if you're living it.

Saastr fans, welcome to another episode of CRO Confidential. I'm your host, Sam Blond. Today we have an exceptional guest from from one of the hottest and most successful startups of the last several years. So we have Graham Moreno. He's VP of Worldwide Sales at Codium. I'll talk a little bit about Graham, I'll talk a little bit about Codium, and then I'll talk a little bit about the show. Couple things about Graham's experience: over 3 years at Mongo, over 5 years at Grafana, We're only one year into Codium, but I suspect the trend will continue of several year stints. Again, another really positive signal in one's career. Codium, most recently valued at over $1 billion. When Graham joined around this time last year, the company was 30 employees. Fast forward to today, we're at 150. We're going to talk about what led to that. That level of growth, that level of success over the trailing 12 months. Graham, welcome to the pod and delighted to have you.

Yeah, thank you. Really excited to be here. Perfect.

I think we're going to go somewhat deep in 3 topics at least today. A few things that I'm excited to talk about: recruiting 30 to 150 people at the company. I don't know exactly what those numbers are in the sales org, but let's talk about recruiting. DemandGen is something that you mentioned. Codium is, is sort of world-class app. And so we're going to talk a little bit about that. And I know you're passionate, as am I, about supporting roles that oftentimes don't get the level of attention that the direct selling roles do. These are things like enablement, RevOps, and more. With that, give us just a bit of context on what Codium does, and then we'll go from there.

Yeah, absolutely. So Codeium is a generative AI coding assistant. Our first product, which is basically a plugin that works across any IDE, 70+ languages, on average generates 45% of the code written by the developers using it. And then most recently we released a product called Windsurf AI that is an agentic IDE. And the numbers on that are very early on, but That is kind of the next step change in development where folks who are not super technical by nature are actually able to go in and build applications. Like, it's floating around on LinkedIn. I built Pac-Man being pursued by armadillos in about 5 minutes. And then what we're seeing customers that are actually technical and who are really getting into the weeds with it is hearing things like something that would have taken me 4 weeks is now taking 6 hours. So just really, really promising in terms of being able to hugely accelerate developer productivity.

That's awesome. It is a category that is receiving a ton of attention right now, as is your specific company and product within this category. And so certainly, you know, some right place, right time influence and a lot of execution that has gone into building Codium in a very short time to a unicorn. With that, let's talk a little bit about the last year and what you attribute so much of the company and revenue team success to. So I think like helpful context, if you can start by describing the go-to-market environment when you joined, which I think was around February last year, like what did the team consist of? How many customers existed? Just ballpark and we go from there.

Yeah. So I, The go-to-market organization was 3 people when I came in and we had between self-serve that was— that's always been a really good channel for us and our annual contract enterprise customers had probably about 200 customers total and low, low single-digit millions of revenue. Perfect.

And so I think the environment that existed is the sort of stereotypical startup when you bring in your VP of Worldwide Sales, which is the role that you occupy. So you were 3 individual contributor sellers, and once those folks are successful and you're ready to continue scaling that individual contributor team, you bring in somebody to add process and recruiting and managerial experience to sort of like facilitate the next phase of growth. So many folks that are listening in, whether you're a founder or early salesperson, Codium is like the exact environment that exists when most folks bring in their first VP of sales. Can you just describe what are the things that were working really well when you joined? And then what were the things that you gravitated towards that were working less well?

Yeah, I mean, I, like, I have to give our founders their flowers. It's not at all just that they grabbed 3 people and said, go figure it out. Like, our founders did a couple million dollars of founder-led sales before hiring anyone. And I think that was a really good thing. So I think to that point, what was working well was they had— and like, you know, there's this concept of conscious competence when you know why you're doing something and can explain it step by step, and unconscious competence where you're doing something but it's instinctual and you might not be able to coach someone else how to do it. There was a huge amount of unconscious competence. I got in and the team was like, yeah, so like these are the, the types of companies we sell to. Here's why. Here's how it disadvantages our competition. And I was like, okay, you're describing like ICP swim lanes, trap setting. I just like very innately and kind of gravitated towards this by just looking at patterns and how the deals were going and being able to say, okay, hey, like when we sell to financial services companies, there's a predictably positive outcome if we do these things. When we go sell to defense and aerospace companies, same thing, just different set of behaviors. And then these might be some industries where it's a little bit harder for us to sell into right now. And so I think that was really pleasantly surprising. And to be fair, I mean, I've been— I got the opportunity to advise Codium for about a year before jumping on board full time. So I had some insight, but actually getting into it and realizing how much they had fleshed out that I was not expecting to be there and how it appeared to be correct. Was really promising. On the flip side of that, there was no process. And like, this has been the impulse of every really motivated, driven founder that I've ever worked with, which is this incredible belief in the product. And if we can just get someone to see it and look at it and touch it, they'll want— they'll get it and they'll want to be a part of it. And so I think at the time we were demoing really, really early, like pre, pre-discovery, it was like get into a conversation and immediately show the product. And I think that had worked, and especially for the technical audience, like when you have the founders on the line, probably effective because they're both like amazingly compelling, really smart, and in their own way, really, really good at sales. But I think for a rep to go in and like not do any discovery and just show the product, like opens this can of worms that really doesn't allow you to qualify effectively, learn about what the customer cares about, understand their current situation. You're getting right into kind of show up and throw up, here's the product. And that was something that we tightened up in short order, like got some process around discovery, got some process around when to POV, what had to happen before, how we went and executed the process. And like basically took a look at the average amount of time that everything took on a stage-by-stage basis and said, hey, I think we can cut 2 weeks here, 3 weeks here, like really condense it. And then we're going to go execute this for a quarter. And if it's a train wreck, we'll fix it. And if things are working, you know, we'll go and double down on them. But just even having the intent for structure, I think, was really, really helpful in the first quarter. And it's kind of blending into the next topic, I think. But also, like, the first handful of hires that you make coming in are so, so important, right? Like, they're going to set the tone culturally. They're going to set just the bar. And I hired a couple of people who are some of the best humans and operators I've worked with in my career, which I actually think was tough for our founders because they were like, why can't everyone just be like this? But I think like between process and then bringing people in who immediately were like, yeah, yep, got it. Let's see where you're going with it. Let me run with it. That was a super, super important first two steps in setting the tone.

Several takeaways. Let's start with if you're a founder listening in, I'm going to describe the type of environment that you want to create to attract the best talent in a sales leader like Graham. If you are a sales leader, you'll get a picture of the environment that you want to do to join when you are considering a new company. One is that there was existing revenue in place that began with founder-led sales. And progressed to being able to have non-founder individual contributor salespeople that were closing revenue. And so you already have some evidence of product-market fit and revenue growth. I think the other thing that you sort of signaled existed was additional demand coming in that you could leverage to close more deals and grow faster, which is sort of a natural segue to— in addition to like this really positive early stage environment that you described, you also identified several areas of opportunity. So it's like, you know, you're a sales leader meeting with Varun, who's the CEO, companies at $1 million+ of ARR, and it's like, you know, we're growing super fast and you're sitting there also going like, ooh, there are also some things that like I can tweak here and really inflect the growth trajectory. And you potentially identified what those things were as you were like interviewing, as you were just having initial conversations with Varun, and I think socializing those things is really valuable for, for both parties. Let's, let's continue along this journey. So you joined beginning of 2024. Were you sort of like outside of revenue targets for the year? Were you explicit about what success in 2024 in your role looked like? And what were the things outside of like, we're going to go from X dollars of ARR today to Y dollars on December 31st? Like, What did you sort of identify as here's success in 2024?

Yeah, one of the things that I think our founders are so unusual about in a really good way is that they are wildly smart, really opinionated on how to build amazing tech and are doing a great job building an amazing company. But they have a huge amount of humility where like when I came in and said, hey, I want to try this stuff, they would push and they would challenge, but they were ultimately like, hey, this makes me nervous. Here's why, but go try it if it works. We'll do your thing. If not, we'll come back to the drawing board and we'll have a discussion about it. But I think that has always very much been the environment and part of why I was attracted to it. And I think coming in, yeah, there was a revenue number, but even more of it than that, it was let's figure out like what the process is, where our swim lanes are. Like, are we going to go scale mid-market really heavily? Is this a heavily strategic sale? We're like 10,000, 20,000 person companies and above. Once we figure that out, then we can go build a scale plan saying, hey, like, we know that our sweet spot is this type of company. There's 10,000 of them in the world based in these places. And based on that, this is what the go-to-market organization has to go look like. So was there a revenue number? Yeah, absolutely. But I think the other piece of it was let's figure out what the right process is, where our— what the verticals are, what type of rep we need to go be successful here and what else we need. But one of the things that we're doing going into next year, based on all the data that we've seen this year, is moving to a partner-first model for revenue. I know, but having a partner leader sub $10 million, pretty unusual. Going all partner-first to drive revenue sub $50 to $100 million, probably even more so. But we believe that's the best thing for the business. And I think Varun and Anshul and Douglas are both super involved in a really good way and also like very much empowered me and the other leaders that we brought in to go figure out what we believe the answer was, make suggestions, and then action them based on data.

Super helpful. All right. One thing that comes to mind, and it is revisiting something that we talked about before, which is the importance of founder-led sales during this environment where there's already a lot of success, but a specific area that a sales leader like you can and should add a lot of accelerant to growth. When a company is successful through founder-led sales, it gives you data around customers, conversion rates, retention, some, some semblance of retention or customer happiness depending on different characteristics that exist. And so much of this data existed for you. But the company wasn't doing very much with that data prior to you joining. And so what you were able to do was take the data, the data that did exist, and you were able to apply it to go-to-market. And so it's just increasing the efficiency of the people and go-to-market organization as you sort of progress from this category where the company is casting a really wide net and anyone that sort of like jumps in and is, is willing to become a customer and generate some revenue does so, you then start to constrain that based off of learnings that you have from the existing set of customers. So that makes a lot of sense. And then you probably as you're doing this, you're probably informing Varun and others within the company, and they're learning things about their business that they didn't already know. Like, we work really well here and less well here. And this is like why I have made that determination. Okay. I think, you know, we talked about 3 topics that we want to spend time on. 3 people when you joined less than 12 months ago, How many people are in go-to-market today? And let's talk about a bit of how those people landed at the company.

Yeah, we're at about 75 in the go-to-market organization today. Yeah.

That only 3 to 75, right? Okay. So 3 to 75, that is very fast. Tell us about the makeup and then tell us about just your approach. Like, like how did you grow the team so quickly? Yeah.

I mean, I, So the makeup of the team, and these are approximate numbers, we've got about 30 enterprise sellers in the range of 10 mid-market sellers, 10 SDRs. Then we've got a handful of folks to enablement, foreign partners, couple of folks in like Deal Desk and RevOps, a handful of sales leaders and SDR leaders and etc., etc. We've got I think 8, we call them deployed engineers, solutions engineers is probably like the normal, the normal parlance. And then 2 really great DE leaders. And that math might not exactly math, but it's about 75 people all in. Yeah. So like kind of full spectrum from SDR, presale, post-sale. Oh, that's one. We have a, like a wonderful post-sale leader who's in the process of building out what our, our customer journey looks like post-sales and trying to figure out where Sales needs to continue to be involved and where we can have like a dedicated post-sale function that she and her team are going to own.

So not only has the headcount grown dramatically from 3 to 75 in less than 12 months, it's also what I would describe as a relatively complex organization made up different personas, SDRs, AEs, of course you have leadership, you have partner sales, you have RevOps, you have enablement and client services and more. So like, you know, a bunch of different functions making up the go-to-market organization in addition to the headcount growth. And so that's just like the recruiting capacity required to get from point A to point B has to be fairly complicated. I guess just like tell us how that has, has worked for you. Yeah.

And I mean, like for any, I'd say for any founder listening to this, like you hire a sales leader that doesn't have 4 to 6 people that can basically text and get into the seat in like 4 4 to 6 weeks, probably even sooner, let's say 4 weeks, then like maybe not ready to be a sales leader. And if you want to be a sales leader and you don't know who those 4 people are, I'd say think about it. So I mean, a lot, a huge amount. I mean, so much, so much respect and admiration for my leadership team because they are doing a lot of their direct recruiting, like me, them. We have contracts with a bunch of outside recruiters and like this has been the case at everywhere I've ever been. I think No one can sell the opportunity as well as you can if you're living it. And so like we have gotten a handful of folks from outside recruiters, like Hunters and Unicorns in particular is one who we've worked with who I think are like really high quality when they send candidates along. But 90% plus of that 73 people that we've brought in since I got here have been sourced by, recruited by us. Where are those folks coming from? A lot of folks that we've worked with before. So like, the initial cohort of people that joined had really heavy Grafana and Mongo DNA. And like, but one of the things that I just say as a heuristic is like sellers and go-to-market people in general want to go work at places and for people who they trust, who they believe care about them, who are going to make them better and who are going to make them money. If you do those things, then like people are going to want to work with you, want to follow you, want to continue being a part of of whatever it is that you're building. And I think not just myself, but a lot of the people that we brought in early have, have built that reputation. And so, you know, I came in, a handful of people who knew me, trusted me, joined me, whether that was from Mongo or Grafana. We brought in, you know, a great sales leader on the West who kind of was like from the larger ecosystem, but not someone that we had worked with directly. And like, she's done a really great job building out her team. And I think it was a combination of really, really strong pulling from the network and like bringing people in who, you know, were coming in saying, hey, I have 2 or 3 people who I really trust, who I would love to work with again. And then we've made a couple of great hires that were not folks that we knew well, but were folks that we were able to backchannel deeply. And so like one of the things that I think is super valuable about the sales world is it is not— it's a small community. And so like, if you look at Codium, a lot of our folks are from Airtable, great level of talent, just like really, and really amazing humans. A lot of really good folks that have great runs at Snowflake, like we're talking 4 to 7 year runs who want to go do it again. A lot of folks that were at Mongo in the heyday, similar thing. They know what fast looks like. They know what process looks like. They're really good at pipeline generation. And then Grafana, which, you know, again, I think on the sales side had a lot of like Mongo, AppD DNA, and just people that like know how to run the playbook that we're running here.

Okay, so here are some things that come to mind. An initial set of hires, uh, all should be personal network of the sales leader that you bring on. And then what starts to happen is that snowballs. And, and, and I can sort of relate where thinking back to the organizations at Brex and at Zenefits, we weren't necessarily explicit about we want to get a bunch of people from Company X. But what would happen is like, you know, I would hire somebody from Company X and they were like, you know, the top performer or something. And then they would know like 2 or 3 of the other top performers and bring in those people. And so you just, naturally start to have these pockets of like 3 or 4 people from this company and 4 people from this company and several people from this company. And I think that is, that's like a pattern that I see seemingly universally with the best sales organizations because it's like you pick off one of the top reps and people are very curious, like, well, wait, where did Sheila go? Like, Sheila was crushing it here. She went somewhere. It must be like somewhat interesting. And then you said something, you know, you get to, you hire 72 people. They weren't all people that you personally knew that you texted because, you know, you come with 4 to 6, you don't come with 72 people that like, you know, immediately follow you. So there are certain things that you have to do for not immediate network, but sort of like, you know, second network type candidates that make Codium the most attractive place that they can possibly join, something worth leaving Snowflake or somewhere else for. You mentioned one, you want to pay people well. Any sort of like stories about things that you really emphasize to potential candidates that make joining Codium the most attractive option for them?

Yeah, I mean, I think like that, you know, the, I think the PG version of it is like, who cares about your OTE? Show me your comp plan. And so like, we have a very good comp plan that I'm like very happy to pull up and talk people through in an interview. And then the other thing, like this takes time, right? Early stage, it's hard. Like you really, really have to make sure that your early people are successful because we only have 10 sellers who've been here for more than 6 months. So like the The other 30 have arrived from August 1st on, basically. But of those 10, 7 are already over their annual number with like 2 weeks to go in the quarter. So 7 of the 10 are over their annual number. One, having only been here for 10 months this year, will like make into the 7 figures. We have another couple who are going to be over half a million dollars in W-2 earnings. And like, this is like, I started in February, the first person who joined after me started in March, they did a full annual number. They closed $1.6 million in 4 months and became a leader. So like, they're not even in this cohort because they became an RD pretty early on. So I think we have really good evidence of people that have been here for a long enough time to tell, because someone who's been here for 90 days, if they have a lot of success, there's a huge contributing factor that's luck, right? Because no one comes in and builds a million dollar deal in 90 days. And if they don't, it's fully possible that they're building and they're going to have a blowout next year. And we just like, we're looking at the leading indicators, but you can't go and like take that to people. So I think that is a really big piece is like, hey, 7 out of 10 are over their numbers. We have, you know, 1 in 10 at $1 million plus, 3 in 10 or, well, 3 others. So 4 in 10, I guess, total who will make over half a million. And then the rest of the folks are, you in varying stages of accelerators over their OTEs. So like, that is a good story that's data-driven. I think another piece is like, making money is awesome, but being somewhere that's gonna make you better and give you skills that you can carry through your entire career is really compelling. And like, that was one of the things, I mean, when Mongo, and they're still growing fast, but like when we were growing really ridiculously fast at like 400 people up to 2,000, people would say, hey, I know it's like a meat grinder here in terms of intensity and expectations, But I also have heard that the enablement is so good, it'll change the rest of your career, which is why I want to be here. Like, that is something that's very important to me. I want people ultimately to come to Codium to work at an amazing company, sell amazing tech, make a lot of money, and work with great people. But I also want them to say, and I've heard, that the enablement that you guys do is best in class and is something that will make me a better seller for however long I'm in this game.

Okay, lots to unpack here. Let's start with what I would describe as like the happy path is you have a founder-led sales startup, couple sales reps that are successful, ready to bring in your VP of sales. And this is, you know, the playbook might be the wrong word, but like a bit of the the sort of like pattern that I have followed and reinforcing that pattern, you know, multiple times and now reinforcing that pattern with what you just described. The VP of sales that you bring in brings a handful of exceptional sellers with them from, you know, their personal network. The reason that those people join is largely the leader and like a lot of trust that has been built there. You want to onboard those folks and create an environment where they can be successful. And oftentimes success in a sales role is defined by how much money am I making? Like we, you know, sales is a commission-driven role and that is something that you want salespeople to prioritize. And one thing that is true here is, look, like if the product isn't selling, if there's not product market fit, you have bigger problems than, you know, the like success of your go-to-market organization. That said, you can manufacture what I would describe as like a culture of winning or an environment where people are making good money. And what I mean by that is like you said, the quota, you decide what the commission structure is. And if early on you want to be deliberate about creating an environment where people are making good money and think about that as like an investment in the future and being able to continue to attract the best talent, you set targets in a way that it's like some balance between, you know, challenging but also high level of confidence that the team will get there and that the individuals will get there. And so you can sort of like manufacture this— I'll describe it— culture of winning before it actually exists. And today, I think definitionally, Codium is winning. When you joined, it wasn't that clear. And so you set targets in a way that, you know, the early days we were hitting our revenue targets. Well, we set the targets. People were making a lot of money. Well, we created the comp plan and that just sort of snowballs into, you know, creating an environment where, you know, you get this reputation that, wow, like Codium is growing quickly, salespeople making a bunch of money and more. And you want to be sort of like deliberate about creating that versus the environment being created because sales reps are, you know, bringing in way more than we thought that they would or something like that. Second thing that comes to mind is around enablement. You know, look, I don't know if you experience this at all, Graham, but I have in my career where It was always very easy for me to be supported around headcount in direct sales roles, specifically like SDR and AE, where like you could tie revenue directly back to the performance of that individual, that type of employee, and then received more pushback. Although, you know, like you, I think there was a lot of trust that existed for me. But I think for founders out there, generally received pushback around these supporting roles— enablement, revenue operations. And, you know, it was always this type of thing where it was like, it is true that this enablement person that is $300,000 a year, I don't know how much, you know, of course depends on leveling and so much more. Like you're not going to be able to say that they, they are bringing in 5 times the amount of salary that we are providing them. That said, they're probably bringing in more, like especially in the environment where we are scaling so aggressively, it's like What if I can maintain this sort of 90-day ramp period to a fully ramped quota rather than progressing that to, I don't know, 120 or 150 days where this function doesn't exist? Like, this is how much more revenue we generate as a business. Same idea in terms of like revenue operations folks. I don't know if anything comes to mind there or experience that you've had. But I think like, you know, one consistent theme on this podcast is appreciation for these types of roles that are becoming more and more popular over time and I think becoming more and more appreciated. But it's harder to tie revenue directly back or impact directly back to their existence.

Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I've seen RevOps be like a huge time suck and source of frustration. And I've also seen it be a massive unlock for the business and be able to drive really, really good results. And generally my experience has been when it's frustrating, it's because at around $50 to $100 million in revenue, someone's like, oh, maybe we should use data to make decisions. And then it's like a multi-year process of unwinding a bunch of stuff that happened. So we made the decision to prioritize it pretty early. And it's one of those things that's hard, right? There's a ton of data everywhere. You're moving really fast. And I don't think that we have this perfect yet. I think with RevOps, it's just been a more labyrinthine problem than, than we had hoped. But the ultimate goal, right, is to be able to use data to make sure that we're putting reps in books of business that give them an opportunity to be successful, that we are segmenting in the right places, that we're putting resources where there's the maximum amount of revenue. And I think if you're not being data-driven to make those decisions, it's really hard.

All makes sense. Okay, we've got just a couple minutes left. Let's, let's just sort of fast forward to today. So we're 11 going on 12 months in. We've only scaled the team from 3 to 75 people, but sort of same question that I had at the top of the show. What, what today is working well now and what are the areas that you think that there remains opportunity?

Yeah. I mean, going well, I think the team, you know, people have probably heard, or if not, now you are like, if you as a sales team, if you don't own your pipeline, then like it's really hard to be successful long term. If you're looking at the SDR team or marketing or something outside of yourself, especially in enterprise and strategic sales, I think it's really, really hard to say that you own your own outcome. And so I think our team has done a really good job building a strong, positive culture of pipeline generation. You know, we've all probably been around organizations where people did it, but it seemed like a chore. I think we've done a good job of having people that are bought in, understand the importance, and also understand that you can choose how you make something feel. And so the team we do PG Wednesday comes in, gets dialed in, we do a kickoff and like makes it really fun. But it is a huge cultural focus and something that we celebrate. And so I think also owning our own number and owning our own outcome is going to be a really, really critical driver of our growth in this next year. I think the team has done a good job on that. I'm really proud of how we've hired at scale. Like, I think our, our leaders are awesome in a sense that, like, my West Coast leaders are jumping on East Coast interviews and vice versa. And I think there is just, like, a really awesome team ethos in wanting to keep the bar really high, not just for talent, but also for culture. And so I think, like, the amount of time that folks are investing in that, even as we move really fast, has been really amazing. And I mean, I think a third thing is that companies right now are looking for partners in AI. And like, we're not out here selling, you know, cans of water. Like, it's, it's very much a situation where someone— a lot of these companies are looking for not just is this the right tool, but how do we deploy it? How do we ensure success on it? And I think that our team has done a really amazing job in terms of how we engage with our customers. And I'm really proud of that. Areas for improvement. I mean, I've kind of alluded to this, but like when you're growing as fast as we are, territory science is really, really important. And I think that like, I would love to tell you, hey man, we can go from 40 to 200 reps and like, I know exactly what territories are going to look like and we have a really beautiful way to carve them. We're not there yet. Like that's something that we are actively working on, on like a multiple times a week basis with like a working group internally. And looking to, you know, to bring some folks in from a hiring perspective that'll own that long term. I mean, you talk— we talked a little bit prior to this about like how technical you have to be. I think just continuing— it's the hardest part about doing enablement isn't getting people in and having a strong onboarding program. It's how do you continuously enable when the entire market is changing on a weekly basis and when the products are changing at that pace. And so I think like our enablement leaders have done an amazing job trying to grab that tiger by the tail. But I think just at scale, like that's going to continue to be something that we have an opportunity to improve on. And the way that— I mean, some of how we've done it is like daily trivia games. One of our founders does a weekly enablement call, ongoing enablement. So like when you get out of bootcamp, it's not just like you get sent off into the woods. So like on a periodic basis we're doing re-enablement. So people are making sure that they're staying on top of it. But I think that's a problem, just like a hard problem to solve at scale. And then I think the final thing is, and you've lived this twice, it's just like How do you keep everyone in the right headspace when you're growing so fast? It's very easy to get freaked out. And that's like communication, transparency, and just having people that are like culturally very in it. But I think that is just like something I think about a lot because I lived it at Mondo, I lived it at Grafana, and it's a hard problem to solve.

All really helpful examples. Here's, I think, the big takeaway for me. Rather than going deep on each of these sort of areas of opportunity that you've identified, It's like, you know, we talked about the environment that existed when you joined 11 months ago, what was going well, where the opportunities were. You have this like awareness of these things. We fast forward 11 months and the examples that you cited were new and different. You know, here are things that are going well. Like, you know, the last 12 months we have crushed it on, you you know, recruiting this really complicated sales organization. Well, that wasn't going well when you joined. There were 3 people, right? So like you reflect on the prior year, let's say, and you really progressed the business forward in these areas that you mentioned as things that are going well and the opportunities to improve are new. Each of the, I think, 3 things that you called out weren't things that existed, you know, 11 or 12 months ago. And so for folks listening in, if you're, if you're sort of thinking about like, what are the biggest opportunities that we have as a business today? And shoot, like all of the, like, or several of the problems or opportunities, depending on how you want to frame them, they're like the same ones that we mentioned last quarter or the quarter before. Like these things have persisted. That's really bad. And I think so one, you want like, you you always want to have— and if you said things are going perfectly, there's nothing going wrong, like, that is a problem in and of itself. There are—

then you're the problem. If you believe it's going okay, you're the problem.

You should always be aware of what the opportunities are. You should always have a plan to address what the problems or opportunities to improve are. And they should be shifting. They should be shifting over time. And really hold yourself accountable and be intellectually honest around like, shoot, if I were to list our top 2 or 3 problems, it's the same top 2 or 3 problems that we had like a quarter or 2 ago. That's not okay. And so that was my big takeaway as you were sort of like re-answering the same question through the lens of today versus the lens of 11 months ago. It's like, this is what you want to see. You want new challenges that are evolving over time. And, you know, so sort of kudos to you with creating the type of change that you want. Let's wrap there. Graham, thank you for joining. Congratulations on the success that you've realized. And I know that you're thinking about your first 11 months at the company as just the beginning. And so I'm excited to see both you and the business continue on this incredible trajectory. And, you know, if Codium isn't yet a household name, which I know it is for many, for folks that are listening in, It is sure to be in the future. So thank you for joining in and great conversation.

Yeah, I really appreciate it. This was fun. Hopefully it was helpful to folks out there listening. Thank you so much for the time.

All right. Take care. See you all.

Bye.