Beyond Giftology: The Radical Generosity Strategy That Grows Businesses Like Nothing Else

What if the secret to growing your business isn't another funnel ad or a viral hook, but a handwritten no. A gift that tells someone you matter? Hey, friends. Welcome back to Chats with Jason. I'm, of course, your host, Jason S. Bradshaw. And today's episode is going to hit close to home for many of us. Just days before his unexpected passing, I had the privilege of speaking with John Rulon, founder of Giftology, champion of radical generosity, and someone I was proud to collaborate with on meaningful projects. John was a friend, a force, and a man who lived what he taught. He believed relationships weren't just important in business, they were the business. Today, I'm honored to continue John's legacy by speaking with someone who's now carrying the torch. Sarah Hardwick, community relationship strategist at Giftology and the voice behind Beyond Giftology, the powerful book that John finished writing just before he passed. This conversation is more than a tribute. It's a roadmap to rehumanizing how we do business. You'll hear about the relationship snowball effect, the rich relationship framework, and how intentional generosity can unlock word of mouth growth that money simply can't buy. If you've ever wondered how to deepen trust, elevate referrals, we'll show up in a way that's unforgettable. This episode's for you, so let's get into it. Sarah, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you so much, Jason. It is a pleasure to be here, to be speaking with you and like you mentioned, to just be carrying on John's legacy in this way. I'm. I'm just so grateful to be here.

And I really appreciate that you and the team have continued to forge ahead with John's work. Like I shared with you before we started recording, every single day, I'm reminded of the power of the work that John forged and his message. So let's jump into the questions. Sarah, if we were to strip away business titles and LinkedIn profiles and just ask, who was John Ruland to you personally, what would you say?

Oh, great question. John was an incredible mentor to me. I'm fairly young in my career, if anyone's watching the video, and I think just seeing the fact that you can stay true to who you are in your personal values, John was an incredible man of faith, and that's something that's also very important to me in my life and still find so much success is something that I will just take through my whole entire career. I think the other thing that I would be remiss in not mentioning is how important family was to him and how much he was able to still keep that as a center of his life. I hope that's something that as I actually get married this August and hope to have a family, I will always cherish those lessons that John taught me. Not just me, our whole team and so many others about the importance of relationship and those family relationships come first.

He definitely was a man that walked the talk, I should say. I can remember once he he knew that I was going to Chicago, so he just happened to turn up in Chicago so we could go out for lunch. Now he didn't have to do that, but that was the sort of man that he was. So and congratulations in advance of your upcoming wedding. So what's the biggest lie that we business leaders or business owners have been sold about growing a business through marketing? How does Beyond Giftology shatter that illusion?

I think you mentioned it in the intro perfectly that we have now been told in the age of social media and the age of technology that the way to grow your business, the way to market your business is through SEO and paid Facebook ads and all the things right? When in reality, if the idea is to build trust with a customer so that you can serve them, so that they can pay you, so that they stay with you in retention and that they refer you, that's all stuff that is built on pure relationship. And a lot of businesses, you know, spend so much time digging into the strategy of how they're going to do SEO and Facebook ads and all these things, but they don't strategically sit down and think about referrals. They don't sit down and think about their word of mouth strategy. Besides, I'm going to go to this networking event and see what happens. So what Beyond Giftology really captures is giving people a system for generating word of mouth, for generating referrals and showing people that absolutely we believe relationships can take you places traditional marketing can't.

That's a great point there. It's not about random gift giving or random thoughtfulness. It is a system. There is a method to the madness, so to speak. It's about intentionality. So can you take us back to the first time you saw the power of relationship snowball in action? Specifically what happened and how did it shift the way you see growth?

I'll tell a quick personal story and then pile on with also the the things I've seen in our organization and how we help small business leaders and service based business professionals. When I was looking for a full time job the first Thing that I would do in networking sessions, in meeting people in interviews, was not go in and try to give someone my resume or my business card. I would actually walk around the room, make relationship, then go into a back corner, write a few handwritten notes, and pass those out. So I think that relationship starting truly with relationship, not transaction, is kind of where that snowball begins, and definitely where the snowball began for me. Now I'm. I'm hanging out with people like you, Jason. Right. Because of those smaller gestures that you do in the beginning. And that's the whole concept of the relationship snowball. Start where you are. Start with the relationships that you have. Treat them well, engage them, energize them, and that's how you will get referred to more and more people. I call it the referral family tree. Right. Like you, you start to build and build connections in a really meaningful way. But we tell a story in our referral partner transformation course about a photographer who did great work, had exceptional service, created these raving fans, these referral partners in her network. Just started as a local family photographer in the state of Washington, and now she's have billionaire clients doing billionaire weddings for NBA. NBA franchise owners. Right. So that's really the power of relationship. And those types of people at the top of the snowball, they're not looking at Facebook ads, they're not searching Google. They're looking to their trusted relationships for introductions.

Yeah, makes so much sense. So say someone's listening or watching along at home. Today is starting from scratch. They've got no budget, no connections, just a whole lot of hustle. What's the first demonstration of value, or dov, if you will, that they could do today that might change everything.

I'll say handwritten notes right off the bat. Although I know those, you know, stamps and everything are getting a little expensive here in the States. There's so many demonstrations of values. You know, people hear giftology and they think, oh, I. I need to spend a lot of money on gifts. There are so many other ways we can demonstrate value in relationships that do not cost a lot of money. Handwritten notes are a great one. Another one that John always did, and I'm sure Jason maybe received a few of these from him, were video messages. So we all email our relationships all the time. Our clients, our referral partners, we text them, we call them. Those are typical forms of communication. But really, relationally, showing up and sending a video message, that's something that doesn't cost us a dime and can truly move a relationship forward. And have you show up in a meaningful way in what would typically just be regular communication.

Yeah. I think it's important that we emphasize that nowhere in the giftology framework does it say you need to go out and buy an expensive piece of art or VIP tickets to a must go show.

Yeah.

Being intentional about building that relationship. And a handwritten note, a video message, or even just a simple text message done with the right thought can make you stand out. It can in itself be exceptional. Because in today's busy world, most organizations are focused on how can we automate, how can we take out the human in the process so that we just get a tick in the box that we have communicated something as opposed to being thoughtful. So what a great way to, to remind us of that. It doesn't have to be expensive. It just has to be thoughtful, personal and meaningful.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. What's the most unexpected emotional response you or your team have received from, from a handwritten note or an intentional gift?

The giftology philosophy of showing up and creating this really meaningful moment for somebody, it's not just another mug with a branded logo on it or something that gets sent to their office. Right. We try to send things to the home that include the family. We were talking about this even before we started recording. But being a part of people's daily lives with gifts, that's that emotional connection that really our philosophy in gift giving, in these demonstrations of value, that's where it lands. Like every time you take out the knife to cook dinner for your family, you're thinking of the person who gave it to you. And that, that doesn't come from your logo on it. That comes from the meaningful moment that you created. So I think just finding the ways to add value to not just that person, but to their everyday life to make it easier. If they're going through something and you know it, recommend a book. Right. Like that's another easy demonstration of value. Those are the things that's going to get that emotional response out of somebody and then build trust in your relationship that can be transferred into something that will help your business succeed.

I, I remember that one of the lessons from John was think about people beyond the person that you're trying to build the relationship with. So a personal example from my experience was John. Of course he, he loved on me. He was generous with me in so many ways through his time and his thoughtfulness. But he also knew that behind me, you're next to me, beside me, however you want to say. It was an executive assistant that Ran my life in many respects. Yeah. Had to deal with, oh, my call with John ran an hour over today, you know, had to deal with all those sorts of challenges that one one does in those sorts of roles. And so John took the time to reach out to that individual and to be generous in nature and to drop a handwritten note, take the time to know who that was with the full understanding that that individual may not have been the one that was going to refer giftology, but was certainly going to influence the environment that I was in and therefore was an important factor in that conversation when it came to living what he taught and the work that you continue.

Absolutely. And, Jason, something I just want to point out that you said, John took the time to really know and understand and even get the name of the people that are surrounding maybe the key relationship that really you're looking to build with a client, with a referral partner, what have you. Something that I think so many service business professionals in, in the world of busyness, right, we're focused on a task, or we're focused on serving the customer that's in front of us, which is very important. But we miss. I. I say asking the extra question, which is just this concept of if you're on a zoom meeting, which I'm on all the time, working from home, right. And someone's like, sorry, it's a little loud in here. My kids just got home from school. We usually just go, oh, yeah, no worries. I can hear you fine. Asking the extra question. Looks like, oh, no worries. What are your kids names? How old are they? What sports do they play? Right. Allow yourself time in conversation with customers with key relationships to go there relationally to ask the extra question. And I think sometimes even hopefully, people hearing this, just switching your brain to realize those moments while they're happening and give yourself the space to do it again. We're just so busy on getting to the next email and getting to the next meeting. We don't always get those key relational points of your assistant's name, and that could be the thing that really propels the relationship forward.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think in those moments where, you know, the kids do barge in, you know, in the middle of a meeting or whatever, when you take the moment to just be human, to acknowledge that it's not the end of the world, what's little Johnny and Mary's name, those sorts of things, it actually relaxes the conversation as well, because the person on the other end isn't trying, oh, gosh, I've got to get this meeting back on track and, you know, I've got to make up those lost minutes. I think it has so much value beyond just the obvious. So, you know, one thing that I'm sure you hear a lot is that leaders say, I'm just too busy to build deeper relationships. I don't have the time and I don't have the money. I'm just going to stay transactionally focused. What do you say to those sorts of statements?

Well, first, I think I'll reiterate our belief truly, that we do believe that relationships can take you places marketing can't. So the fact that you're saying you don't have time to build relationships, that's really saying, like, I don't have time to build a key marketing lever in my business. So I would, I would reframe that thinking a little bit. My second piece to that is it probably feels like you don't have time because you don't have a system around it. And that's really what beyond giftology speaks to. And what our education speaks to is, yes, even if you believe that relationships are important in your business, probably the reason why that relationship ball is dropping is because you don't have the correct people on top of it, the correct systems on top of it. Something, a simple system that we teach all the time for leaders who, even if you just have an assistant, small team, or just yourself, and this is spoken a lot about in the book, is this concept of TAP meetings. Schedule time to talk about partners, schedule time to talk about people, not the transactions in your pipeline, not how your CRM is all sorts of messed up. Right. This is truly a time where you or your team can come back and say, hey, I just realized that Jason posted on LinkedIn last week that his son wasn't feeling well. Right. Like, whatever that is, to be able to have the space to bubble that up to your team so that things get done. What that does for our team and what that always did, also in support of John is, yes, maybe John didn't have time to be writing 15, 20 handwritten notes at a time, but him bubbling up that information that those key relational components then allows a team member to take that over or a system to be created. And there are things that can be automated, but we need to start those relational systems at some point. And I think TAP meetings are a great way to do that.

Yeah, it comes back to that intentionality. Do you really care about relationships or is it just a buzzword that you're going to throw around? Occasionally it reminds Me, Zig Ziglar, very famous individual when it comes to sales and marketing. Well published author. His family continues his legacy as well. One of the things that Zig taught for a very long time was it's not about the sale, it's about what you do after the sale that will get you the next one. And whether that's for a repeat business or a referral. And he advocated quite strongly the importance of that handwritten note or that reach out at pivotal point in someone's life and whether that be their wedding, a loved one, that's sick. But just continuing to create that connection. The reason I share that analogy with Zig, or the Zig example is if you're watching today or listening along as you drive to work relationships, building relationships and making it a intentional part of your business is proven, it's tested, it's generational, it will last beyond the next social media hack, the next SEO refresh that Google puts out. It's something that endures and that's really important because in business we have so many things that don't endure. Sarah, what's your take on that?

Yeah, I, I was just going to add something that I find fascinating, especially in what we saw in the beginning of this year, right, With a lot of service business professionals, a lot of people getting on TikTok for marketing. And then in the United states at least TikTok was about to disappear and even did for a couple of weeks. We kind of started thinking about this term of what we're all doing on these platforms, building our marketing strategy on these platforms. It's digital sharecropping, right? Like we are building our businesses, success, our growth on someone else's property. And truly the only thing that people cannot take away from you is people can copy your fancy slogans, your cool website, right? Like I can go online and be like, copy paste. This is exactly how I'm going to run my business. And I really like this tagline. What they cannot copy is your relationships. They cannot copy what those people are going to say about you and how they're going to introduce you and the trust that is transferred in that. And I think that's where we are seeing fingers crossed, the pendulum swing back a little bit, of people truly realizing that relationships are the backbone of their business. Because what is going on in the world of some of this tech stuff is a little bit more unpredictable than a lot of people thought.

Yeah, absolutely. It's a great reminder. Build the relationship because that will endure good segue as well. To my next question, Sarah, you haven't been provided them in advance, but you're a great segue nonetheless. So you teach people to prioritize, prioritize return on relationship over that initial return on investment. What's a business result that you've seen that the ROI focused leaders that are listening would find potentially unbelievable?

Yeah, I mean, I think for anybody who doesn't know our theory of ROR return on relationship versus roi, what we believe is that ROR is really those compounded outcomes of relational investments. So when you're putting a dollar into a Facebook ad and getting X out, sure, you're not able to necessarily do that with how you're investing in gifts or showing up for a relationship, but we really do believe over time that these things will compound. I mean, I think the unlocking of loyalty that happens when you are investing in relationships is something that's unmatched. The salary contracts. I see it in my own world. When it comes to being an employee of giftology, something John has likely shared with you, Jason, and, and something that he shared openly a lot is like the things that we are given as a team and poured into, invested in, of having a house cleaner twice a month, having date nights covered for us and our significant others. Right. Those are the relational investments that will get you returned, that will get me working harder, that will get me staying up those long nights if I need to. The health insurance and not the 401k. Although yes, those things are great. Those above and beyond moments are what's going to get you the return back. When you think about even relationships you have with suppliers or vendors, don't you want to be at the top of their priority list, investing in those relationships, that's the type of return you'll get back out. And same with referral partners if they're up in the air with two services to people to refer business to. If you're investing in that relationship, you would expect that there would likely be a return there.

John always was able to really break the mold. And providing house cleaners a couple of times a month for team members and things like that. It's those sorts of strategies that many would think is just crazy. But that return that you talk about is that commitment and that extended effort that you just subconsciously put into your day to day because you feel that you are valued and you're rewarded for that. So if you're watching today or listening along, don't, don't think that you have to be boxed into giving a gift or writing a note or giving someone even A cash bonus when it comes to their employment. There are ways that you can build a relationship in different ways. So important that we're reminded of that.

Yeah. And I think as well, when I speak to a lot of individuals who run referral based businesses and we're speaking to the fact like create these referral partnerships, there's a lot of industries where referrals don't flow both ways. Right. And that can be uncomfortable. Like, hey, I need them to give me a lot of referrals, but the way that my business is structured or the clients that I deal with, I wouldn't send referrals back to them. Like, how is this truly a synergistic partnership then? And really what we always say to that is there's other ways to demonstrate value in that relationship. There's other ways to invest in that relationship than just sending back referrals and creating this tit for tat mentality. And there's return on. Relationships can take shape in a lot of different ways. And I think just having the intentionality behind it, focusing truly on the relationship, on the person, you will have an outcome that you'll be happy with.

Yeah. Yeah. Great stuff. So if a listener was to pick just one person today to love on, what's your script? What should they say, do or send to start their referral ripple?

I'll go back to what I said earlier, sending a handwritten note or a video. If you're not comfortable with jumping on video right away, I swear it's not that scary. But go ahead and write something thoughtful in that handwritten note. Do not mention business to this client or this employer or employee. Talk about something that is meaningful to you and how they show up and why you're grateful for them. Same in video. I think there's a similar structure where if we are really just able to speak to the relationship and not bring up the transaction and not bring up business and the next meeting that we're supposed to have, that's what can start that true energization of someone who is a raving fan of you and will refer you business.

Yeah. So let's shift gears just a little bit as we're coming to the top of the episode. If you were to explain the giftology teachings, the core message of giftology to 11 year old, what would you say?

Oh goodness. I would probably revert back to a Bible verse that was one of John's favorites and also has definitely become a guiding light in our organization. Jesus says it is more blessed to give than to receive. And while yes, that's a business principle that we hang our hat on, I think an 11 year old could see that in their daily life with friends, with family as well. And it's something that I'm so grateful that I get to live out in my work as well.

What a fantastic way to explain it to a young one that might happen to come across this episode or to help someone listening explain it to someone in their family. You're an ambassador of giftology, of the work of John. What responsibility do you feel carrying his voice forward? And what would you hope that people take away that he himself didn't live to say?

Yeah, you mentioned like what would start people's referral ripple. Right. But I think even bigger than that, what I'm really excited about in this next chapter and so grateful for in carrying on John's legacy in this way is we do believe that as people do take care of their relationships, that will spawn on to the next person. Right. That will create a snowball effect in the marketplace at large as well. And us truly believing in that verse that I stated earlier, if we get more givers that are believing in this message in the marketplace, I just think some really beautiful things will happen. So more people following that giftology mindset means more businesses touched, more people's lives touched. And I think that's just something I'm really excited and grateful to be a part of.

Fantastic. Sarah. As it comes to the top of the show, I'll finish with this last question and I'll ask you to complete this sentence for me. If more leaders embraced radical generosity in business, then.

Then their business and their lives would change.

Your business and your life will change if you embrace radical generosity. Sarah, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today.

Thank you so much, Jason.

It's not the thought that counts, it's the thoughtful thought. We've heard that throughout today's episode and it was one of John Rulin's favorite lines. Today it feels even more powerful than ever. John wasn't just a best selling author and entrepreneur. He was someone who made you feel seen. He taught us that the most impactful marketing isn't loud, it's personal. And today, thanks to Sarah Hardwick's leadership and beyond giftology, his message lives on, bigger, deeper and more relevant than ever. I hope this conversation has sparked something in you. Maybe it reminded you that ROI is good, but ror return on relationship is a game changer. Or maybe it inspired you to send a note, give a gift or show some gratitude in a way that leaves a lasting impression. If so, act on it. One relationship, one gesture, one intentional moment. You can learn more@giftologygroup.com and get your copy of Beyond Giftology, a book John wrote for all of us who believe in business with a heart. If this episode moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear it, tag them, gift it, and subscribe to Chats with Jason for more conversations that connect. Because relationships still matter most and generosity never goes out of style. Remember, when you change the experience, you transform your business and the world around you. Until next time. Hi, I'm Jason S. Bradshaw, and this has been Chats with Jason.