From Conflict to Connection: The Customer Experience Secrets That Build Loyalty for Life

Foreign. Welcome to Chats with Jason. I am, of course, your host, Jason S. Bradshaw, and this is the show that helps you transform the experience to transform your business and the world around you. What if the smallest actions could create the biggest impact? Today, we're joined by Marilyn Suttle, an expert in human connection, customer loyalty, and leadership through through service. She helps teams turn challenges into moments of magic and shows us how to lead with empathy, clarity, and intention. Whether you're building a brand, managing a team, or just navigating through conversations, Marilyn brings stories, strategies, and soul. This is an episode you'll want to lean into, so let's dive in. Marilyn, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Jason.

It's my absolute pleasure. And congratulations on recently being named one of the the world's top 30 gurus on customer experience.

Ah, thank you. And I'm talking with the guru myself. With you, Jason.

Oh, thank you. We could give each other compliments for the next 30 minutes, but I'm not sure that's why people are watching or listening along at home today. So let's dive into the questions.

Sure.

Can you share a moment with us when you witness someone completely turn around a tense customer situation? Not with policy, but. But with heart? And what's stayed with you from that experience?

Oh, I have so many, but I'll try to catch one right now. And that is, you will have situations where customers are so angry that something has changed. The policies change, the prices have changed. Prices have changed a lot for everybody, and they're mad. One of the best things I remember coaching a group, and there's an I don't know how to handle it. They're just so mad. I don't want to answer the phone. And it's just to start with, you're right, you're right. The price did come up. You're right. And it's just frustrating. I feel that way, too. When prices go up and it's all of a sudden you go from so mad to, oh, he's agreeing with me. And I like to say it's like when you turn the shower on in the morning and cold, prickly water comes out, but if you just let that flow a little bit, the warm water starts to flow. Same thing with your upset customers. If you just let them be frustrated and you give them some acknowledgement, then the warm feelings start to flow.

Yeah, I love that analogy. It must take, though, a lot of emotional intelligence for that customer service representative to be able to not get caught up in the energy of that negativity and like you say, just acknowledge that yes, they're right, it is frustrating and let it diffuse. What has your work taught you about emotional intelligence when it comes to customer service, customer experience?

The big thing I've learned is that it's not enough to tell your staff or dear, tell yourself just be nice and have a good attitude. That's wonderful to have that, but that doesn't give you the skills. Somebody who is very nice can get really stressed out by an upset person yelling at them. They go into fear mode and this fight, flight or freeze is just not going to be very effective. So that is not enough. When you talk about emotional intelligence, a lot of that is do you have the communication tools so that you practice, you've role played, you've thought. Because if something difficult happens once, you have to ask yourself, is this likely to happen again? And the answer is going to be yes. So you want to be prepared and practiced and really skilled.

Yeah, I love that takeaway there that if something's happened once and it's difficult, take the opportunity to reflect on how you could do it again because you're probably going to be faced with that challenge again.

And now I'm interrupting. Sorry.

No, go ahead.

It's not only you, but your team. And so this is what where leaders can sometimes fall down. They don't share their mistakes they've made. They don't share the good, bad and the ugly with their team. But that is such a good learning opportunity. If you let your team in on the challenges you face, the mistakes you made and then how you overcame it, that's accelerated learning for them.

Why is it, do you think that leaders are scared to share the ugly, shall we say, side of what's got them to where they are and just their job in general?

It's growth. Growth can be painful. And if you are a really good leader, you're not afraid to say, hey, I made a mistake and hey, this is what I learned and hey, let me reach out to somebody who's done this before and see what they did. It really is that looking for coaching and being a good mentor. I like to say be a mentor, not a tormentor to your staff because they will learn from being a mentor, but they'll be afraid to tell you the mistakes they've made. If you're a tormentor.

Yeah, great takeaway there. Now of course you're a multi time bestselling author. One of those books is who's your Gladys? And in that book you explore how service pros handle difficult people. What advice Would you give to someone dealing with a Gladys in their life right now, whether at work or even at home? Perhaps.

You know, that's one of the wonderful things about these skills, is they do transfer from work to home. And so it really is about laying out the scenarios. First of all, people are different. We've got the cranky ones, we've got the cold, austere ones. We've got every personality you could think of, and we're all triggered by one particular one. For me, it's the cold person, the person who just so cold. And what I do is I translate what is the highest good in that behavior or what is a way to reframe that behavior for me so that I can be better with them. And so for me, I reframe a cold person as somebody who's slow to warm up. And somebody who's slow to warm up. I can open my heart to that person. But the cold person, ooh, I don't like that. So really looking at how can you look for the highest good in their behavior? What is something you could take from that and translate it by reframing a bit? And that's hugely helpful.

So what's a tip or a strategy or a mechanism, a framework, whatever word you want to put on it that someone can use in the moment to help them reframe that grumpy so. And so to something else, I like.

To use the word lap L, A P. Because you know how sometimes you're stressed, you put your hands in your lap and you go, oh, gosh. But LAP stands for listen, acknowledge, and paraphrase. And here's the thing. If you listen with curiosity instead of disdain, if you're curious, that is a really big leadership skill. Because if you're curious, you're going to be listening differently and you may discover something that you made an assumption that isn't necessarily true, giving them the benefit of the doubt through listening, and then acknowledge everything they say every time they talk. And it doesn't mean agreeing, it just means you are saying what in their motivation, it's in their best interest that you are putting into words that's what they're saying. And usually that deescalates things and then paraphrasing back, not sounding like a robotic copycat. I'm not parroting you, but when I hear what you're saying, I am really frustrated. This stupid watch I spent all this money on didn't work and I want a refund. It's. Oh, my gosh, I am so sorry to hear that. Did not Work out for you. And then in the process of asking really good questions, assessing the situation, you might find out they just didn't know how to operate the digital dials. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. So being able to really listen, paraphrase back, and then be then the solution, we're too quick to go right to the solution before they've had a chance to vent. Let them vent. Soothe yourself while they're venting and just tell yourself venting is good, it's good. Now listen. How can I listen to this deeper differently? It really makes a difference.

Yeah. And I think picking up on what you said, part of the success of that approach is that the customer feels heard so that when you do deliver your solution to the problem, they're thinking that and rightfully that you've actually taken the time to consider what they've said as opposed to you're presenting with as an angry customer. So I just want to throw something at you to get rid of you quickly. Even though the solution may not change by listening to them, it's giving that person the freedom to feel heard, which leads to them feeling cared for. So I've got to ask. Absolutely, have to ask. Have you had a Gladys moment?

Oh, sure, sure have. I remember one. Okay, so I speak internationally and I had a call from somebody who was so excited to bring me in and they were just talking about the audience and how this was going to be so great. And they had seen my videos, they'd seen me talk before and they were going to bring me. They just on and then going into great detail about what that was going to look like and what they wanted. And we had this long discussion. We got to the next step. I'll put a proposal together with a pricing. Oh, pricing. Oh, we have no budget. They wanted me to drive two hours out and do a program and it wasn't a nonprofit. So that was a Gladys in that. It's like, wow, I could have thought, wow, are they disrespecting me or wow, they're really taking advantage of me. But I stayed curious. I stayed curious and I thought, oh, how can I be of service without giving myself away? And so I said, oh, so you don't have a budget on this? No, we don't have a budget, but we really want our team to learn this. So then I said, let's see if we can't come up with some solutions for you because I have a fee, however, for free. There are toastmasters group with people who just love to speak. Well, that Was good. That was fine. And she ended up later on moving on and bringing me in for full fee somewhere else. So by staying connected, not getting hurt, insulted, because we've got that very human part of us that just gets mad, just be curious, how could I be of service and still hold my boundary? And that really works.

Yeah. And just reinforces the importance of not burning the bridge. If you had got mad in that situation, then it's every likelihood that you wouldn't have got that paid speaking gig when she moved to that other firm. And yeah, I know personally what it's like when someone reaches out to you and they're all excited and then they're like, oh, but this is. You can do it for a free ride. But such is life. Such as life. I mentioned that you've written a number of books. Who's your Gladys? Taming Gladys? Color Their World. So being inspired by Color Their World, I'm wondering if you've seen a customer or a colleague color someone's world in a way that's totally shocked you. What happened and why did it shock you?

A couple of things. So one would be, I do intensive training programs and spent a lot of time on the word policy. Like, how do you respond when somebody bumps up against a policy? And so after the training and I'm like, this is the negative. Then I'll give you a positive. I ended up meeting somebody who said, oh, that company is so rude. And I said, what do you mean? Because I work with this company a lot. And, oh, I came into the meeting room two minutes before I had booked it and they had locked the door and wouldn't let me in. And I said, this makes no sense. It's. I get the room in two minutes. There's nobody in the room. Why can't I have it? It's policy. What else could I say? And she walks away. It's like, oh, ouch, ouch. That's not what I taught you. Because whenever you talk policy, you want to give them the why. And especially the why in a way that it benefits well for your protection or for the security. Because we want to make sure every customer has the right experience. Give them the why. So that was one that, that shocked me because I had done the training and doesn't always work. Yeah. Working with the hospital and giving people the authority, giving them empowerment to do the right thing in the moment, to make things well. And a child was just sobbing, so upset and so scared. And so the employee took the time to go to the gift shop, buy a Little stuffed animal and give it to the child who was in pain and crying. And just because it felt like the right thing to do. This is what we worked on as a $25 discretionary. Anytime you think it's necessary, when you empower someone. And the turnaround and the happy parents from that and the word of mouth from that is huge. It's a small, nice thing that makes a big difference.

Absolutely. Ritz Carlton famously gives every one of their team members the discretion to spend quite a large sum of money, actually, to resolve a customer issue. But the number of times that the team members actually need to even touch that discretion is so minimal because they've also given them the tools to understand how to support a customer through a period of frustration.

Oh, I have to share. I got it. I got to share. Because it was Ritz Carlton example happened to me. So I was speaking at an event, staying at the Ritz. I get a phone call that my grandma died. And so you can imagine I was pretty upset. And I'm trying not to do the ugly cry on my way back to the room. Right. I'm upset. And one of their staff saw me and came up. He said, are you okay? I said, my grandma died. I just want to get to my room. And they said, could I just walk with you so you're not alone? And he walked with me to the elevator, up to my room. And it just was so comforting. And about 15 minutes later, I heard a knock at the door. I opened the door, and there was a gift with a condolence note and some bath salts. And it was, like, such a thoughtful thing that just goes so far. Talk about customer service. It gave me that piece of just comfort in a really tough time.

Yeah. And it just reinforces that whatever that team member was doing wasn't more important than the moment of being there for the customer. Because I'm sure every time you hear the brand Ritz Carlton, you think fondly of it. Every time you stay at a Ritz Carlton, I'm sure, like, the anticipation that it's going to just be a good experience. And I say just good. Like, it's never just anything. It's always an elevated experience. And in real terms, what did it cost the Ritz Carlton for that team member to be there in the moment for you? Nothing. Like, it's not even a rounding. If you want a balance sheet, it wouldn't have hit the balance sheet. It's that minimum. It's such a powerful example. In Taming Gladys, you dive into different customer personality styles. What's a surprising effective way to spot someone's style and adapt in real time?

So there's basically four major styles. And one of them is that person who just needs to cross every T, dot every I. And they're going to go in detail, everything, and then they're going to ask you questions to make sure they get it right. And you might start thinking in your mind, don't they trust me? It's like nothing to do with trust. There's somebody who just needs a lot of reassurance that they get all their decks in a row, all their questions answered. And if they give you an email, it's going to be long and detailed. But then you've got the other kind that they're big picture people, right? They're just, I don't want to hear how it works. I just want it to work and I want it now. And you might think, oh, they're abrupt. No, they're just busy people who know what they want. So if you again, that reframing of what they are and each style and then some people that care about you, they're their customer and they're worried about you. Have you ever noticed that? I remember seeing at a Panera, one of the workers that had kind of gotten chewed out and the person in front of me went up and said, are you okay, honey? These customers that want a connection so badly because it's just their nature. So if you understand the four styles, it's much easier to adapt to what they need and you understand your style. This is a really fascinating piece because if you are that fast paced, goal focused, want to get things done type of person, you want to move fast. I was coaching somebody who was like this and she said, oh, yeah, I got in trouble by asking my customer to get to the point. And so one way around that is to use your skill. Okay? You are somebody who wants a goal. So the goal is to connect with that customer so that they stay a loyal customer. That means use, slow down and talk to them, get to know them. And so you're comforting yourself because this is how you get to the goal now that you change your style because that's stressful, but you use your style to get your goal for that person. And we could, we do that with all four styles.

Yeah, I absolutely adore that. Adapting your style to help the customer achieve their style interaction. I could definitely share some examples of perhaps my style, but they might move on. Your work spans the globe. You're a sought after international keynote speaker, a consultant, you've written books, you've worked with so many teams. What's one unexpected thing great leaders do to build loyalty from inside the business?

I love this question because anything that happens on the inside of a company eventually shows up on the outside. And I want to use the word empathy. And sometimes people hear the word empathy and they think that's soft. There's nothing soft about empathy. It is a leadership skill. And empathy means that when you're going to make changes, that you're going to bring the team in and talk about those changes before they're implemented. A couple of smart reasons. Because they are frontline and see things maybe in ways you haven't and there's unintended consequences that are going to happen. So enrolling your team in creating any kind of standards or changes or policy is a smart business move and it shows empathy. It says you matter here. And once you work harder for somebody who sees you as mattering and has empathy for you, and if you see the internal people you work with as internal customers they are, then what happens and how you treat them eventually will affect how they treat the customer. Including people who have no customer contact. Because there's still a link in the chain.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's easy for people to forget that they might sit in finance or procurement or some other back of house function, but what they do eventually impacts the person that's standing in front of the customer, whether it be the speed at which they can deliver the service, the mindset that they have, the mood that they're in when they're delivering the service. So many different ways and important as leaders that we connect those dots. I think the other thing that I take from what you just shared is find ways as a leader to experience what your people are experiencing. If you have a contact center in your business and you're the chief executive officer, go and sit in the contact center for an hour, you'll all of a sudden understand why not everything goes smoothly and be on the sales floor or be where your customers are. But from that view or that lens of how your employees typically experience it, some great insights for us. There's now you often talk about subtle shifts. What's one small shift anyone can make today to radically improve how others experience them, either personally or professionally?

One of them is to know when to shift from tell to ask. Because sometimes you have to make an unpopular decision that it's just a tell. You can't do anything about it. But not if you use the same tool on everything. It doesn't work, you've got to use a different tool for different situations. So if you want to empower your team to take responsibility and accountability instead of telling them you messed up here, ask, how do you think that went? What do you think you'd do differently next time? That simple. Tell to ask. Depending on the situation can make a huge difference in the accountability everybody takes for the work you're doing.

And even as simple as saying, after asking those questions, do you think we could try X versus you will do X. Same outcome, but the way that it's interpreted and how it's received is so different.

Yes.

So if someone's listening or perhaps they're watching along today struggling to create consistency in their customer experience, where should they start?

That's another great question. So consistency is key if you want things to go well. I'm sure everybody listening has gone to a restaurant once and it was so good and the second time it wasn't and you don't go back again. So consistency is huge. And so what that looks like in my mind is that you look at every customer touch point, every place where they have connection with you. And I like to say, did you create your customer irritation list at each point? What's on that irritation list and what can you do to resolve that? Because sometimes it's just a matter of acknowledging it and then putting it into action, putting it into the system. And it doesn't always take a lot, but it's consistency in how the customer is treated at each point and making sure that you walk the talk so that your employees also see that it's like, oh, he doesn't mean it or she doesn't mean a look at that. They don't do what they were telling me to do, so why should I do it? So consistency in how you follow the guidelines yourself and having guidelines, do you have vision, mission, values and then living them and then making them part of everything you do and reinforcing, that's one of the biggest things. Is that reinforcement?

Yeah. It reminds me of the phrase the standard that you walk past is the standard that you accept.

Yes.

If it's acceptable for you to walk past rubbish on the ground, then it's acceptable for everyone else to walk past rubbish on the ground. It's not one person's responsibility to set the standard, it's everyone. Yeah. Great. So what's a go to question that you ask yourself when you're in a high stakes situation and need to stay grounded, present and effective?

I start with a deep breath. The moment you notice that feeling inside you want to reactivate. You don't want to stay in that fight flight mode. And I often say, is this a threat or is this an opportunity? As soon as I say that, nobody's going to kill me. At least I hope not. Is this a threat or is this an opportunity? Is huge for getting grounded in the moment. Because even you could say that about problems. Is this a problem or an opportunity? And really letting your staff look at things as, oh, we're facing an opportunity here. Language is so powerful and how you think about something affects how you move forward with it. Just like when we talked about curiosity, when you're curious, it takes you in a whole different direction than when you're assuming it's going to go bad. Different energy.

Absolutely. So, Marilyn, it's been great chatting with you today. I'm wondering, for those watching along or listening, what's the best way for them to connect with you and follow your work?

They can find me on LinkedIn, marilynsuble, or they could go to my website@marilynsubtle.com.

And we'll be sure to put the links to both of those locations in the show notes. And of course you can get a copy of Marilyn's books, follow her work, and perhaps if you're hosting an event, you could look at booking Marilyn for your next event. But before I let you go, Marilyn, I've got one, maybe two last questions. Let's see. If you were Talking to a 10 year old, how would you explain what it means to make someone feel cared for through a great customer experience?

I would tell the 10 year old to think about their teacher and think about them as being this customer of their teacher. How would that teacher make you feel cared about? And they'd immediately say things like they'd smile at me, they call me when I put my hand up, you know, that type of thing. And then I think immediately they put themselves in the customer role. And then I turn it around and say, and how do you show kindness to other people? That is a form of customer service.

What a great example of how to explain it. Marilyn, thank you for sharing your stories, your insights and your heart with us today. You've reminded us that service isn't just a skill, it's a mindset, a human connection and a daily opportunity to make someone's world a little brighter. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow, subscribe or share this episode with someone that could just simply use a little inspiration today. And if you're feeling extra generous, leave us a review. It helps more people discover conversations just like this one that we've had today. Remember, when you transform the experience, you transform your business and the world around you. Until next time, keep showing up, keep serving with heart, and keep coloring the world around you.

Sam.