Why Most People HATE Your Ideas (And How to Make Them Listen!)

Hi and welcome to another episode of Chats with Jason. I am of course your host, Jason S. Bradshaw. And this is the show that helps you transform the experience to transform your business. Most visionaries make a critical mistake when giving speeches, writing books, and otherwise attracting others to their ideas. They believe that their job is to provide information. But this is the information age. People have plenty of information. What they actually want is change. And people are persuaded by an idea when they believe change is possible. Now, these aren't my words. These are the words of today's guests. Our guest today has previously worked on the editorial staff of Penguin Random House, where he worked with New York Times bestselling authors. He has helped people just like you increase their impact and he himself is a best selling author. I am delighted to welcome to the show Neil Gordon. Neil, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for such a lovely introduction.

Jason, you gave me the words. It was very easy, so thank you for that. Neil, give us a little bit about your background. How did we get to this point in your career?

Well, as my bio suggests, I am a person of language, of words, of communication, and as well as having a background in book publishing. And the next thing I'm supposed to say to you, Jason, is that I was a real bookworm growing up and that I always had my head in a book and I went to a really fancy school as an English major, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. None of that's true. And none of that came even close to happening. Because the truth is that while I had a rather high proficiency for reading as a small child, like in kindergarten or first grade, the more I went through school, basically the worse of a reader I became. And I went from being in the 99th percentile with reading to the 54th percentile by the time I was 13 and by the time I was 16, I took. Here in the States we have the SATs and I got a 3:30 verbal score, which put me in the 5th percentile of everyone who took the test that year. And all of this is to say that while my brain turned to mush, a couple of key books that a friend of mine had me read in college and right after college led to me having a pretty significant shift in how I saw the world, especially one book in particular, a novel called A Prayer for Owen Meaning by John Irving. And that so shattered my worldview that I just started reading voraciously, trying to figure out what is it about the written word or in language as a whole that could have such a profound impact on me. And several years of floating around trying to figure that out led to me. I'm glossing over a lot, of course, but I wound up getting an editorial assistant job at Penguin. It was at the time Penguin, before it became Penguin Random House, and then got promoted and didn't climb very high up the ladder, but then just went out on my own and developed an expertise and persuasion and everything that I do with people today.

Yeah, interesting backstory there. You talk about it on your website, of course, but so often people presume that you must have been born with this talent, a natural influencer or a natural bookworm. And as you've explained to us, it was a journey for you and I'm guessing it's a journey for quite a number of people that are listening today. Now, I didn't give away the title of your book in the intro, but the book the Most Powerful Sentence of All Time. Now talk about a book title that grabs your attention. Can you tell us a little bit about the book?

The book, in a couple of sentences, is what happens when the CEO of a struggling small business encounters an unlikely guide who helps her to unravel this overlooked persuasion technique in the pursuit of a deal that would change everything for her and her company. And so what I hope is endearing to the readers is that she meets this guide who is not some wealthy magnate with a great big mansion and years of experience influencing all sorts of amazing people. But she encounters him as a rideshare driver and through a casual conversation on their way to the airport where she's going, he happens to distill her entire company down to a single sentence that captures everything and suddenly gives her clarity as to how to more effectively position what her company does to others. And because of the significance of that and how she makes that sentence actionable in the following chapter, she winds up circling back to him. And then the main meat of the story is going even deeper still around a specific offer she has in order to pitch a dream client and all of that. And so it all comes down to this one persuasion technique, the eponymous powerful sentence that makes all the difference, how she's able to create momentum where previously she had none.

Now, if you are watching along at home or listening on your favorite podcasting app, you're probably starting to get a hint that this isn't a traditional business book or a self help guide. You've written it in the style of a fable. What made you go down this path?

Well, the truth, honestly, Jason, is that I've really been taken with the fable or parable format for quite a number of years. I remember back when I was still an editor at Penguin, I got a book on submission that some of our listeners and viewers might actually know. It's called the Go Giver by Bob Berg and John David Mann. And I was quite taken with this. I was already familiar with the parable format. I had read the Alchemist by Paulo Coelho and really quite adored that book as well. But when I read the Go Giver, I fell in love with this book. My bosses fell in love with it. And just because the divisions, the imprints at Penguin couldn't bid against each other, the business imprint portfolio got to bid on it instead of us. And they acquired it, and it's now gone on to sell over a million copies. So the good news is that young Neil had very good editorial taste, even if he couldn't be the acquiring editor of that book. But it really planted a seed for me that even when I barely understood what this powerful sentence was, I was drawn to the idea of taking ideas that I share with people and turning it into a fable format. And so after the pandemic and after I had done a fair amount of healing in therapeutic settings, I realized that I needed to stop being afraid of such a thing, which I was definitely afraid of it when I was younger, stop being afraid and actually do it. And so I went for it. I went for it starting a couple of years ago. It took me a while to write it because it's not a traditional nonfiction book. And here we are.

Yeah, it's not 12 chapters in sequence with a tip in each chapter, so to speak. Although obviously there is key insights in each chapter. But it's not written as in the same sort of style when I was looking at the book and listening to the audio version, because I just find consuming content easier that way.

I need to blitz all those things at 2.7x speed. Honestly, Jason, it's just like, boom.

I always get the print copy because I figure that's easy to lend to somebody. But I can be listening to the book a lot easier and get through it a lot faster than me turning the pages. I was thinking about who this book is for, who should read it. And the easiest way is to ask, who do you think Neil should read your book?

I would say that if we're going to think of this in broader terms, Jason, somebody who is attempting to solve a problem in a way that goes against the grain of how other people try to solve it. If you have an idea, a solution that is Unconventional or a departure from what's typical? This is arguably the most important book that you could ever read, because what we see typically as a liability, an unconventional fringe way of doing something, can actually be one's greatest asset. It's just a matter of using that lack of conformity as a strength. That being said, that could include small business owners and founders who have innovated in some way and they want to get their. Their solution out into the marketplace. Nonprofit leaders who have a unique solution with their organization and they're struggling to get people to buy into it as well as educators. Educators could utilize the concepts in this book to persuade others. When we think of persuasion, we often think of sales and fundraising and all of that. But the truth is that an educator is attempting to persuade students to not only pay attention, but to assimilate the ideas and to somehow synthesize them for growth and forward movement. All of these things include sharing unconventional ideas, and when you do, that has a profound effect. And frankly, corporate leaders who are struggling to get buy in for an unconventional idea. I actually neglected to mention that, Jason, but that's also a very big part of who falls under that larger category.

Yeah, I was thinking that really it's for anyone that wants to communicate with impact, who wants to be able to take someone on a journey in their communication, as opposed to just communicating with facts alone. Facts are. I'm not suggesting you don't use facts, but you can have a very dry conversation and use facts and not get the outcome that you're looking for.

Sure.

That's what I love about about the book and about your work is that it's about making the message heard and helping people understand the message as opposed to just hearing some facts. Neil, in the book, what would be the number one takeaway from the book or number one lesson in the book that you share with those that read it?

I would say that if we had to distill it down to just one, it winds up centering on the first of the concepts. There are clearly stated, delineated concepts that are shared throughout the book. And the first one winds up being something that a lot of people might agree is true when they hear it, but because of how they show up, it's clear that they're not walking that particular talk. Let's put this in the context of a public speaker who is going to have 45 minutes on stage to deliver a keynote address. What most people believe is that their job in that situation is to provide as much information as possible. But the more information they provide, the more value they provide. They're making the larger assumption that humans are machines or sponges just looking to absorb as much content as they can. But we're not robots, we're not machines. We are living organisms and we have feelings and we have distractions and frankly, rather shot nervous systems given our addiction to devices these days. With all of that said, the job of the speaker, the job of the person persuading others, no matter what, in any context, isn't to provide information. It's to convince others that change is possible. Because that's what motivates, that's what empowers people to go deeper. You could see a speaker and then the next step might be to read a book or to go through a course or a workshop, or to hire the speaker or any of those things, because that's where the real substance is, that's where the change happens, is through the work, through the implementation of tools. But before we get to that point, we need to first convince them that this is something they can do. And so the main concept, to circle back to your original question, Jason, is that people buy, or they buy in when they believe change is possible. That's how you empower others. That's how you create momentum. You convince others that they can do the thing you want them to do.

And if we unpack that a little bit further, what's a key strategy for shifting our communication from info, info, info, info to this information is going to convince you that change is possible? Because I'm imagining in that process that you actually take out some information. Because if you're trying to convince them that change is possible, you can't just keep piling more and more information on top, but you have to curate what you're saying and take them on that journey.

Imagine if somebody got up on stage, Jason, and said, all right, if you want to make seven figures in the next year, I'm going to give you 150 things that you need to do, okay? Somebody sits there in the audience and they're like, wait, I need to do 150 things in order to achieve this. Thanks, I'm good. I will live just fine on my far more modest income. Because who would want to sit there and do 150 things? In reality, that's probably a conservative estimate of things that needs to be done to create a seven figure business. However, if you start off with overwhelming people with all the stuff right out the gate, they're going to leave that experience thinking, oh, man, I have a lot to do if I want this, and I don't think I can. Now, giving them an overwhelming amount of information isn't the only way to dispel any belief that change is possible. But it's the most common one from what I see. And so if that's not the strategy, what winds up being more effective? While there are lots of different ways that we can go through this process, I like to go to speaking because it's such a contained experience. And what I teach my speaking clients is that fundamentally there are two things you need to do on stage to convince others that they can do a thing. The first is the recipe, the solution, the idea. This is the most powerful sentence in the title of the fable in the title of my book. This is a sentence that teaches people what to do and why it's important. It's like a self standing secret sauce for change. And this becomes the foundation of everything they do moving forward. When they have this fundamental grasp, when they get this recipe, they suddenly think, ooh, now with that, I know exactly what I need to do, at least at a high level. And now I just need to get a little bit more information to get going with this. But in that moment, they get it. Okay, so the one is the message or the solution or the idea, that's the one part. And the other part is the context you create for that idea or for that solution. It's like a one, two punch. You have the solution and then before you explicitly state it, you build up to it, starting perhaps with a problem that audience is struggling with and the objections and the agitation. When we think of it like a copywriter, they have the classic problem, agitate, solved formula for a piece of copy. You start with the pain point, the thing that they're really struggling with, the thing that they can't stand in their life. And then you twist the knife, you agitate that pain even more. This is really hard because you feel this way and then people will reject you and et cetera, et cetera. But then you solve it. In the third part, you do that. And so basically it follows that the problem in agitate, or what the copywriters already know is that's creating context for the solution. And when you do that, you get people emotionally invested in solving the problem. You get people feeling like they've got to get on with this. What a lot of speakers do and other people do is that they go right into their solution. They go right into here's what you gotta do, or they list learning objectives. Here are all the things we're gonna talk about today, whatever it is. But if you instead start with, you know how hard it is to make that first five figure month when you've been struggling as a poor freelancer for several years kind of thing, and then, and you think you have to just do more and more work, but then you burn yourself out and it really sucks because blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm simplifying the content. I mean, there are other things I have my speaking clients do, but that is basically how you create context. You just get them invested in solving the problem and you show them how much it sucks because that sets them up to want to solve it and then they open to your solution like a flower to the sun.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. And I think something that we can miss in, that is, in a room full of one person or thousands of people, part of the process is not only talking about the problem, but reminding them that if they about the problem. Because so often we have so many things at us that if we haven't had a recent experience with, say, a bad customer, we don't think we have a customer service problem. But then the moment that we start hearing about the pain or being reminded about the pain of that last experience, we suddenly realize, hang on, I don't want to live that problem again. Fantastic. Now, you mentioned that there's four concepts. We don't have time to go in depth in all four concepts today. But what are the four concepts? Just at a top level?

The first one is that, as we talked about, is that people buy when they believe change is possible. Okay. This is about creating the conditions where your audience believes that they can do the thing that you want them to do. The next concept is that contrast creates clarity. What we're doing in finding this sentence is we're using all of our expertise and all of our many years of experience to come down to one single idea, which could feel daunting. And so the way you can. This is not the only way to find clarity, but one way that I've found really helps me as well as my clients to do this is to contrast our solutions with the solutions that of which we least approve. Those solutions we consider failures. The failure here is that they do blah, blah, blah, blah. But what I want them to do instead is blah, blah, blah. Contrast creates clarity. The next concept is that the less something needs to be interpreted, the more empowering it is. So what I teach people about this sentence is that it's a cause and effect sentence. It's one action that leads to one outcome. The key to solving this problem is blank. But when I teach this to people, they invariably try to pile on more outcomes and more actions. The key to solving this is this and this, or when you do this, you're able to do this and this and listing a bunch of stuff because they think more is better. That leaves us needing to interpret. Is one of these more important than the others? Is one of these easier to do than the others? Which one comes first? And so that interpretation unconsciously becomes noise. It becomes less empowering for people. They don't want to do it. It's just too muddy in their mind. And the last one recalls what I was just saying about context. Right? Context comes from the pain or the problem that people care about solving. And so the fourth concept is that people are most likely to embrace your solution, your thing, your stuff, when you provide it within the context of a problem they care about solving. And so, yeah, it just winds up really helping to get to that solution and the context for making it happen.

Yeah. So just to remind you, listening along at home, if you happen to phase out at any point during that because the fire truck went past or someone walked past your office, the four concepts of the Silver Bullet are people buy when they believe change is possible. Contrast creates clarity. The less an idea needs to be interpreted, the more empowering it is. And people are most likely to embrace a solution when it's provided within the context of a problem they care about solving. You'll learn about those four concepts and the power of persuasion, of course, in the book the Most Powerful Sentence of All by Neil Corden. We'll provide links to that book and all of Neil's work in the description below. But Neil, if someone wants to work with you, how do they go about it? What sort of things do you help people with?

I have a couple of different kinds of ways to help folks. Jason. Many people find me to help make over their speech, whether it's like a keynote or a TED like talk. However, I also engage with companies where I wind up helping with a larger variety of things, which includes public speaking and writing, book writing, as well as some communication officer type stuff. It really just comes down to adapting the service to the need ultimately under the umbrella of being more persuasive, more effective in the sales marketing side of things, as well as attracting supporters in the nonprofit sector.

Neil, I absolutely love your work. I write down to your URL now. Talk about having clarity in your message. If you want to check out Neil's work, neilcanhelp. Com, you can't get any more simpler than having your URL as that very clear message. And the website itself is quite engaging as well. So you're a master at communication and as your website says, you can help someone turn their message into a movement. Neil, as we come to wrap up the episode, what's one thing someone watching along with us today on YouTube or listening on their favorite podcast app should do as soon as they finish this.

Episode, I would say that they will benefit a great deal from taking maybe five minutes to write down what kind of pain, painful thoughts perhaps their ideal customer or client is grappling with. As soon as they wake up in the morning and trudge to the bathroom. As in they wake up and they rub their eyes and when they think about their day, oh man, I can't believe I have to blah blah blah or I am dreading blah blah blah. Take five minutes to write that down. It's what I call the trudge to the bathroom test. If you can capture what they are truly thinking and feeling in that dark moment of grogginess, then you have a way to market yourself and attract people to your work that will really mean something to both you and them.

What a fantastic insight. Neil. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show today. Again, congratulations on the book. I hope to have you back on the show sometime soon.

Thank you so much Jason. I appreciate it.

And if you're watching along on YouTube, please be sure to give us a thumbs up and share this episode with your friends and family. And of course, if you're watching or listening, I should say on your favorite podcast app, we'd appreciate a five star review. I'm Jason S. Brettrell and this has been chats with Jason.