040 Do Accounting Firms Need Reporting Apps?

So you've made some pretty reports, have you? Much better than the QuickBooks default reports. Wow. Your colleagues would be really impressed. But here's the thing. Does your client even give a hoot? Is your client even looking at them? Let's talk about reporting tools today. Where is. What is their place in accounting firms? They can do some really cool stuff, some stuff that I think is cool. But do my clients think that's cool? Will they even care? Are they going to pay me more for using these things? Let's go deep on reporting apps today on Jason Daily. All right, when I say reporting apps, let's cruise through the usual cast of characters. Apologies in advance for apps that I'm missing. There are so darn many of them. I will run through a few of them here, but definitely not a complete list. So you have what in my mind is like the cast of visual reporting apps. So Sift is one such example. Sift Syft. I'm going to put links to all these things in the show notes there. It's like a reporting platform that integrates with your QBO, your 0, whatever you're using, and on top of that gives a more quote, unquote, helpful interactive visual reporting format. So Sift is one such example. Another one is Fathom. Fathom was like one of the og. I feel like reporting apps making this stuff look really pretty. I did some deep dives with Fathom back in my firm running days. Another one that's hot right now is Reach Reporting. Same kind of idea. You connect it with the systems that you use to create a more visually appealing, maybe easier to understand sort of interface for your clients. And those are to me, like the. I don't know what to call them, let's call them visual reporting platforms. On the flip side, you have tools that are like connectors to your Excel, to your Google sheets, that sort of thing, where all they do is they actually Talk from your QuickBooks or your Xero file to that spreadsheet with the idea that you can build whatever you want in that spreadsheet. And the spreadsheet ultimately is your reporting platform. So maybe you already have a spreadsheet that you like. We now have really good connector apps to like automatically populate those spreadsheets and live update those figures if you'd rather just do delivery in a spreadsheet. So you've probably seen Live Flow, who have very kindly sponsored a lot of my stuff in the last year or so. They're an example of kind of that connector that will sync data from your quickbooks file to, in their case, Google Sheets. GCON is another one that's been around for a while that will sync that data back and forth from your accounting system to a spreadsheet. And then Genius Sheets is another example. I think they still do this. Genius Sheets is the one that's been like going deep on chatting with your QuickBooks file and stuff like that. They got started with a connector. I think they still have the connector. But those are like in my mind just tools for syncing data from your accounting file to a spreadsheet. Which kind of points to the bigger question of do you need like a big fancy visual reporting system? I can tell you my journey with this. This is maybe three years ago, I completely drank the Kool Aid, maybe even more, maybe like five years. And I do, I like, I love, I'm a sucker for like pretty visuals. And when you've just looked at balance sheets and P Ls for your whole life out of Xero and QuickBooks, which are just fundamentally like really not compelling reports, like they're not interactive, like they're just so stale. When somebody first and I think it was fathom that I first saw maybe five or six years ago when somebody first showed me this, I'm like, wowee, this is gonna change the way we do accounting, change the way we work with clients. It's just so much better. And so what I did was I invested a whole bunch of time and effort into selling quote unquote reporting. And we put it in front of some clients and they too were dazzled. And they're like, wow, no, yeah, this, this is super cool. So we built out some dope reports. It was like the fanciest month end reporting you've ever seen. And then we basically trialed this with clients for a few months with the plan to eventually upsell them on a service that was literally called quote unquote reporting, only to find out that, I don't know that it really made anybody's lives easier. Like we weren't solving a meaningful problem with those reports. And this was like five or six years ago. This was I think earlier days in reporting. But like it's worth acknowledging, I do think these reporting tools can kind of be like account and candy where you're like, you love the look and the feel of them and you think of the things that they will let you do for your clients. But ultimately it is like your clients that you're going to ask to pay more and like ultimately does it enable your clients to do anything of more meaning? Than they already do with the vanilla financials that maybe they don't even look at. Right. So like there's a bunch of nuance in this conversation of how you deliver your financial statements, of the like financial maturity of the clients and the people that you're delivering this stuff to. So that's kind of what I want to tease out a little bit, is in the most common like SMB support situations where maybe you do their tax and accounting or you just kind of do their back office stuff for them, what is the path to reporting tools making a meaningful contribution? This is like probably seven years of learning from me on the ways to use them and the ways to not use them at their best, man. Super cool, like super rad. But in my experience, the majority of firms are like, are not at that level of specificity to make the most of them, I think, in my opinion. But I've kind of, I've also been talking with some people that have kind of walked me back from that a bit of late. So we're gonna talk about a little bit of that, that stuff. So why did my initial foray into reporting fail? Well, at the time, what we were doing for folks was largely like compliance books. And when I say compliance books, I mean we were doing their bookkeeping because somebody had to do their bookkeeping for tax reporting purposes. And that's where most SMB start. And somebody has to help them through that. And I don't like there's definitely more interesting engagements than that. But like, I don't have a problem doing compliance books for entry level SMB type folks. Fundamentally like most of them don't understand the accounting, they don't probably see the value of it and aren't able to extract much value from the output. So they just need somebody to get it done so that they can file their taxes correctly. And that's about it. And those are the folks who, you know, you may have picked them up when you were doing their accounting for them once a year, you know, off a spreadsheet or the back of a napkin or something like that. Over time, oftentimes those businesses will mature and what they really need is something more and they need to pay a little more attention to what's going on. But in my case, those were the clients that we were largely serving at that point in time was the people for whom they know that they needed a reliable solution to get the books done. So they valued it that much at least. But they didn't really have any interest in monitoring that stuff on an ongoing Basis and like, plugging into the financials that we were sending them on a monthly or quarterly basis. And so at that point in time, really, the level of understanding we had of their business was simply what we saw came through the bank. You know, we would have a conversation with them a couple of times a year, usually around tax, though, so we would have some awareness of the things that they were doing. But we didn't have a deep enough level of understanding of their businesses in order to be able to see what would be helpful from a reporting standpoint. Like, you can make, like, generalizations about, you know, liquidity and just, like, general kind of business stuff that stands out on a balance sheet and P and L. But we didn't really have a deep understanding of these clients to be able to say, with this reporting package, we can solve this, that your vanilla balance sheet and profit loss won't solve for you. So when we put this stuff in front of them, they're like, yeah, no, cool. I like the idea of this. But then ultimately, similar to the first time somebody outsources their bookkeeping, when they're like, yeah, I need to understand all this stuff and get my head around it, and I need my numbers to inform me on where I'm going, there was very quickly this level of disillusionment that I think can happen there when somebody actually does it right for them. And you just ship off those financials and you say, here you go. Figure it out. And they're like, yeah, I don't. I can't make any sense of this, buddy. I don't know what I'm looking at here. Um, I. I think in my experience, oftentimes when I picked up an SMB that didn't have there's maybe doing their own books or was frustrated with whatever the current solution was, they're like, there's kind of that, I don't know, talk track that we've all probably heard a bunch of times that was like, I've never had a good handle on my numbers. I don't know how to look into my numbers to help me to make decisions. And so they would come to us and they would buy bookkeeping to help them with that. When bookkeeping ultimately wasn't the solution to that. It was, who's going to help you make sense of those numbers and invest the time and understanding your business to be able to apply what you're hearing to what you're seeing in the accounting system? Because you can be the. I think you can be the best accountant in the world. And you can do the books correctly, but I don't know that that really puts you in a position to be able to advise on the business unless there is a space for, like, more meaningful conversations. And admittedly, the first time somebody is outsourcing their bookkeeping to your firm, they're usually stuck on the cost of what that will take to do well. And so the last thing you're generally able to do at that stage is to upsell them and say, hey, no, we're actually gonna meet every single month and talk for a couple hours and that sort of thing. And so when you have those folks coming in, there's oftentimes gonna be that disillusionment with, yeah, these people are getting my books done, but I still don't understand what's happening at all. And so you kind of have that friction between what's the value that they assign to it versus what do you need to charge for it. Now, for some firms, this has been a rationale to only do bookkeeping for companies who will meet with them every single month and who will go through that stuff and engage with it. And while that's gonna be in some ways harder to get the really early folks in the door because you have to charge a lot more for that level of attention, it does, I think, increase the likelihood of that being a successful engagement. When you say, you know, what I'm hearing is you wanna have this level of understanding. And what I'm telling you is it's going to take this level of engagement from us to get you there. And that's maybe more than what you've been paying in the past. But if you will only take clients in who are willing to do that, I do think it definitely increases the likelihood that you're gonna have a successful outcome there. This episode is sponsored in part by Client Hub. That's right. Hey, this week on Tales from the Hub. Remember last week when we did this? Super smart accounting firm figured out that getting answers from clients was the key to unlocking the profitability of their firm. So they chose Client Hub practice management system with a client portal at its core. When they rolled it out, the clients were like, omg, thank you. Beautiful and modern. Modern, simple experience. They said their exact words for this hypothetical firm. And a killer mobile app. How many of our like accounting platforms right now have a helpful mobile app? Not many. Now the firms and the clients are on the same page about about what's required to do the work. The staff at Super Smart Accounting Solutions can assign clients tasks for the clients to tackle that can be like a yes, no answer. They can be a request for files, even requests for categorization. It'll automatically Sync back to QuickBooks or Xero. That's handy, right? Whatever the client task is. They discovered that their clients on Client Hub now respond right away and have overcome some of the like blocking that happens with getting the work done waiting for clients. Nobody likes that. Hey, to learn more about Client Hub and how you can unblock your life, check out the link in the show notes this episode is sponsored in part by the fine folks at Cloud Accountant Staffing do you hire accountants? Bless your little heart. Not the best part of the job in my opinion. Not something I ever enjoyed. Well listen, you can build your accounting dream team with talented offshore accountants in the Philippines that work 100% full time for your firm. Their accountants aren't freelancing or contracting for multiple firms. They're all yours. They work exclusively for you and are incentivized to stay with you and your team long term. They're not going to get swiped. Cloud account staffing is 100% dedicated to the accounting industry and founded by a former accounting firm owner that understands your business, knows your pain points. They had to hire some accountants and they said you know what, we're going to build our own pipeline in the Philippines, going to pull in some super talented people and then open that up to other firms. Basically that's the story I've been talking about a lot about staffing, building more resilient staffing pipelines for your firms. I had staff in the Philippines like totally red pilled me to like oh geez, like we need to globalize the way that we get our work done. Check these folks out link in the show description Cloud accountantstaffing.com but my problem thinking back to that time was ultimately that I I didn't have a deep enough level of understanding of their business to know exactly how to set up the reporting in a way that was helpful for them. And the client didn't have a deep enough like level of financial understanding to look at this thing that was prettier but still abstract and somehow like make that actionable through the lens of what they knew about their business. So like that solution was still missing. The person that could marry that financial knowledge with a deeper understanding of the it didn't matter how good the reporting was, like there needed to be that facilitator to actually still put that through the lens of their business and help them to understand how that should actually change what they do tomorrow. And I think it can sometimes be easy to put the onus on the client to say, well you've just got to invest the time into learning this stuff. And um, like, I think it's worth acknowledging not everybody's on a path to being a cfo. Like I don't know that we can project that on our clients. Like there's a, there's a threshold of being responsible. So like, how do I make sure people aren't stealing from me? And like, like just a level of like you have to be this engaged to like just from like almost a stewardship standpoint. But the level of like being a CFO and like being able to make clear insights from financials and developing a deeper understanding, like that's way beyond that and you know, not what really any SMB owner like goes into business to do. So while it would be helpful if they knew some of that stuff, I don't necessarily project on everybody that they need to be on some sort of path to having that really technical expertise. Now I, I, obviously that's a big spectrum from here's what you need to do to be responsible to here's a cfo. Like there's a hundred steps in between. I do think in some cases there could be an opportunity there for the accounting firm to develop some resources to help upskill that person a bit up that spectrum. So are there resources that you could develop and package and sell? Maybe it's like a, you know, a cohort based course that you do in your client base maybe twice a year where you take them from very entry level understanding, you know, level one to level two. Is there something that you can help with there? Is there a, like a digital product that you could develop that's just like a self study thing that they could buy and then ultimately not go through? There's probably an opportunity there for you to help upskill them a bit. But I don't, I think earlier in my career I would look at those people who like didn't have what I thought was an adequate level of interest and I just kind of thought like, oh, they don't get it. Like it's their fault. They're not trying hard enough when at the end of the day like they're running the business and they're like this is not the reason that they're running the business. Like this is not what they're passionate about. So there's a subset of client out there who wants compliance books and at a certain stage in your business maybe that's fine. But I think As a business grows, you do either need the owner trending towards having a greater level of understanding of how this stuff works, or you need the accountants or a fractional CFO or something like that being pulled in to interpret the numbers through the lens of the business. I think you need one of those two things. And some business owners will be suited to do that stuff. Like me, when I launch a business. Like, that comes really naturally to me, and I enjoy getting into that stuff. It's not going to be the case for everybody. But either that business owner needs to be, in my mind, developing some of that expertise over time so that it's something that they can take on in their business, or they need to pull an advisor in relatively early days to help, like, speak into that blind spot that they're inevitably going to have unless they make that investment. I don't think they should all make that investment. But if they don't want to, if they just want to focus on the business, like, they need to understand there's a price to then pull that expertise in and let somebody speak into that. And that's like a really cool opportunity for accounting firms, I think, is just the fractional nature by which we can do this stuff. And when we talk about bookkeeping and sort of the transactional work getting commoditized more and more, the really meaningful thing that you can do on top of that that's hard to assign a commoditized value for is like, be that person that just fills that void in the business. If the business owner isn't going to be that, somebody's got to wear that hat. And I mean, charge them another couple thousand bucks a month. And like, we can't even go out and hire accountants to do transactional work, right? Where is a small business owner going to go out and hire a, you know, a CFO or something like that? The I tell you something that, like, really puts this whole advising thing, like, frames it in a realistic way for us, is if you have clients that are going out to those fractional CFO services and getting quotes for what it will take to pull somebody in to support them, Goodness gracious. I talk with, like, early firm running folks who are, who are like, yeah, I think I'm gonna start doing these monthly meetings with our clients and we'll just charge them another couple hundred bucks a month. But the alternative for that person is genuinely like going out to a CFO now or something like that, where the price of entry is like, man, like three or four grand a month at a very Very minimum. And the people that they're gonna work with, I mean, I can't generalize that across everybody. But if you're doing their accounting and if you've got got a deep, deep understanding, like if you're doing your tax and stuff like that, you're going to have a deeper level of understanding than that fractional CFO probably will. So I do think we can undervalue this part of what we do for clients, maybe because the clients never shopped for that thing or had to pay for it any other way before. And this is why I think we have become like a little bit allergic to calling all of this stuff bookkeeping. I think that's the motivation for calling it cast or something else. Because if you just call it bookkeeping, then I think it doesn't benchmark. Like when people are shopping around for different types of bookkeeping, you know, clients will call all of this stuff bookkeeping, even meeting with them once a month to go over stuff and talk goals and that sort of thing. Like, I think what people are trying to avoid is getting lumped into just the transactional side of that, which has a price that is kind of like getting commoditized and a little more set in stone. But it's when you're able to like come in and fill that void that I think these reporting tools start getting interesting. And six, seven years ago, what I liked about them was the ability to build out like this really cool, really fancy 10 page thing. And I think now what I'm liking about them more and more is probably the opposite. If we're working from the place of the reality that most of our clients probably aren't looking at balance sheets and P and LS at all, then the solution probably isn't more, or the solution probably isn't a visual version of the balance sheet in the P and L, the solution is probably just at what level of simplicity will they engage with it? And that's probably your right answer, where to start. And that'll be a moving target and it'll be different for different clients and clients will mature. And I do think kind of tasting the rainbow can create more of an appetite for going deeper. But you gotta start somewhere. When they're at a point where they're not looking at this stuff at all, and that place to start is to you and I, going to be shockingly basic. It's really hard for us to. I think the easy thing for us to do is create something that's impressive to us. When it's really hard for us to see this stuff through the lens of our clients and not having all the background that we do like it, like being a public accountant and working with hundreds of small businesses and entrepreneurs and seeing that stuff behind the scenes, man, we forget what a unique perspective that is. You compare that with CFOs, who in many ways are like the more impressive, more allotted kind of framing of a similar skill set. But you take a killer CFO that's been in industry 20 years, like, how many companies have they worked for? Three or four companies? Like, that is the depth of perspective that they have. Whereas you have seen a bunch of different stuff, doubly so if you're specializing, if you're working with certain types of businesses, to be able to see into a bunch of those makes you a phenomenal advisor. Hey. This episode is sponsored in part by Firm360. Firm360 is practice management system that's just gonna help you get more done, help you run a more organized accounting firm. If you're out there running an accounting firm on a spreadsheet or on that legacy tool that your tax vendor said, oh, no, we're gonna bundle this one with you and it's gonna be like, free for three years, okay? If you're that guy, you already know you've made a mistake. Listen, cloud practice management systems, they're here to stay. This is the future. You just gotta get on board. Okay, let me tell you a bit about firm360. Nice thing about firm360 is it's trying to do all that stuff for you. It is trying to do project management, file management, time and billing. You're getting all that stuff into a single place in the cloud that you can work with anywhere. You can associate your documents with the projects that they related to, your time and billing, all that stuff in one place. Just like that crappy old tax vendor told you their tool would do, right? How's that going for you? Mm. Check out firm360, developed by actually an accounting firm that was like, none of these things do the things that I want them to do. Let's build our own solution, right? If that's feeling like you right now, check out firm 360. I'll put a link in the show notes. But what all of this does is, you know, it's that old adage of like, what's boring to you or whatever is novel to somebody else. Like, it's. We've seen so much of this stuff that it gets harder and harder to impress us and we lose perspective of Just how far we've come and what was novel to us when we were first learning all of this. So like when we are putting that stuff in front of a client for the first time, I think we have to simplify it to a level that is even more simple than what we are thinking. And my favorite version of that right now is just starting with a set of a few really basic KPIs. And you may so KPIs being key performance indicators or just like a single metric and you present that KPI on some sort of, you know, scorecard or something like that with each, with each month and close or quarterly close, maybe you come in with a few that you think are important. But then in those initial conversations with the client, you talk about what are the, what are the biggest pain points for the, for the company and maybe the biggest opportunities they feel like they're not leaning into. How can we put a metric to these to begin kind of checking in on that every month to make sure you're trending in the right direction. And what I like about KPIs is I think as accountants sometimes we can over focus on the financial metrics and lose sight of the non financial metrics. So non financial is literally anything that's not coming out of the bank account or something from the accounting system. Like that could be employee headcount, could be the number of hours the business owner worked last week. It could be the number of ad placements that went into spending, you know, x thousands of dollars. So you can build your own metrics that are either financial metrics that are non financial metrics or a hybrid of the two. Oftentimes they're really helpful like revenue per employee or leads, you know, by ad spend or something like that. But I especially love getting a little, little bit woo woo with at least one of the KPIs. Because if you run a firm, you know how much a firm running is dictated by like am I turning up with energy every day, like able to do this in a sustainable way? As much as we talk systems and automation and all these other things, so much of our success and how much we're able to get done just comes down to how much energy we can turn up to work with every single day. And that was one thing I always looked for in developing a team was I wanted people that could be like the batteries for their colleagues and for me. So that if you have energized people, you know, we're not all gonna be able to turn up on the same level every single day. But if you're excited by people who are. If you're surrounded by people who are excited about what, what you're doing, that can prop you up on the days that you need it. You know, so much of us being at our best just comes down to our energy levels. And that's the case for us, just like it is for SMB owners. So, like, where are they at in all of this stuff? Are they feeling inspired? Are they, you know, at a point with the business where it's. It's hard to be motivated to work on this stuff, man, Figure out a way to, like, to, you know, build a solution to that. If, if the shoe were on the other foot and you were feeling just worn out, what would you need to get over that? Is that taking a week off every two months? Is that working for fewer hours every week? Work through that with your client and put some metrics to it. Oftentimes that's the most meaningful thing that we can do is not the really, really transactional, you know, nerdy stuff, but almost like being the person that will force those conversations that maybe nobody else in their life is able to have with them. So I've gotten to a point where definitely when you're starting with clients, I think you gotta boil it back to something really, really simple. And there was a time when I saw that, you know, just a dumb little KPI dashboard with five KPIs, and I'm like, what's the point, man? Like, there's so much information in these financial statements. What's the point of distilling it down to something that simple? It's almost a waste of all this work that we've done. But your client has to start somewhere. And maybe they will totally geek out on financials like you someday. In my experience, there's not a ton of those people, but they have to start somewhere. And they're never going to develop a deeper understanding and interest in this stuff unless you first spoon feed them something that they can understand. If you give them something that's over their head, like, you're not going to start them down that path. So when you roll out that first dashboard of like 5 KPIs, the first thing that will happen over the next few months is like, oh my gosh, we need to have four times as many KPIs, and that's something that you'll be kind of fighting against as, you know, making sure the stuff that you're tracking is the most important stuff, because there's a bottomless amount of things that can be tracked and added to that and whole bunch of things that go into that from like delegating responsibility for certain metrics, you know, to your team and everybody on your team having a number and stuff like that. But when it comes to getting a business owner interested in this stuff when they're not looking at your financial statements, I think for most people the solution probably isn't a reporting tool. The solution is pairing it just back to what they can understand. And you can use reporting tools for this. Like actually my favorite part of Fathom, for example, is they've got a cool like KPI dashboard that puts, you know, what they did in the current period up against past periods. There's a different level of interactivity there that will help them understand what that metric is and remind them what all is feeding into it. So reporting tools do KPI reporting really well for those beginning sort of entry level things. It's also the sort of thing that you could literally chuck into a spreadsheet. So you could use like a spreadsheet connector app or even just put in an email, right? Like it's not that complex. Your goal in the beginning should be to get them to at least gauge, I mean, get them to engage with one metric, pay attention to that one yardstick. Like that's, that's a place to start. That is better to me than them disregarding the financial statements. And then ultimately down the line, reporting tools do open up some really cool things. So the things that I love most about reporting tools, the presentation of like a KPI summary, like that's really nice. But the bigger, like heavier lift things, consolidation. Anytime you're working with company groups, you know, just what a pain that is when you have to run that stuff in different company files. So rolling up all of the companies, rolling up different combinations of the companies, eliminations between those companies. Reporting tools can be a big help there. Even not even from a, even just from a time saving standpoint for you. Just like getting those consolidated reports out, even if it's not through the lens of being more helpful to a client. And then the other thing I love is benchmarking. So the ability to pull in your own benchmarking figures alongside client totals and the ability to benchmark groups of your clients. So let's say like you run a, you oversee stuff for a client that runs these five retail locations, you could benchmark those locations against each other. If you work with 50 taxidermists with the client's consent, you could benchmark those things within like the Clients that you work with, like. Like, there's some interesting things that you can do there that are helpful for people. Again, that's like, down the road stuff once you've got people to engage with at a certain level that those reporting tools can enable. But what I got wrong was me being impressed and thinking that, by extension, that would impress my clients. I think the better way to think about it is to think about the clients that you have kind of on a spectrum from where do we start them? To, like, what is that really cool, impressive to me version of this that may ultimately be cool to the client. That really impressive version probably is as much a tool for you as it is for them, and a guide for your live meetings with that client. I don't know that you're gonna get to a point where you can create this cool report, send it over to them, and they're like, eureka, now we need to go do these other things. I think that's probably not realistic. But the. The part of the equation that I was missing was the really simple end of the spectrum where I was forgetting just how little it is these people know and just how much you need to simplify it for them, to make it accessible. And to do that, you could absolutely use a reporting app, you could use a spreadsheet connector, or you could use absolutely nothing. But for me, I would say 90% of the time in my firm running experience, I was overshooting what I thought that client was capable of understanding. Sometimes that would frustrate me, and I'd be like, whatever, we'll just do the books. We won't even send them the financials, whatever, that's the end of it. I think the better thing to do, though, is to start everybody at a really basic level, because that's better than nothing. And because in some cases, that will intrigue them to, like, have that kind of level of curiosity that will then lead to more meaningful forms of analysis. So reporting tools, I like them, but I think the conversation is a lot bigger than reporting tools. It's bigger than what is that journey that you're taking your clients on. Shower thought. Ooh. I tell you what. Getting folds out of new clothes. So this shirt is a great example. You ever have those clothes that. And I can. I mean, I can speak to men's clothes here. Like, shirts are always folded in a given way, especially if you buy them online. I'm pretty sure they fold these shirts up a certain way and then pack, like, pile them 10,000 shirts high. Because when you get them, it's like they have been crushed for the last six months under the weight of a dump truck or something. And you now have these folds going vertically right down your shoulders, all the way down the front of the shirt. I tell you what though, all of the best practices of of line and wrinkle removal. You better believe I'm tumbling. It's not going away. Little handheld steamer thing. Lines are still there. The like, the only way I know how to get rid of these lines for shirts that I order online is just like, I gotta go out. And I don't know a better way to put this, like, steam that shirt up just by wearing it. Just by going out and going about my business. Then you just hope after a couple of washes that somehow wearing it has given it what it needed that the steamer didn't to release those lines. Okay, let's. We've, we've said enough on this topic. Last hey, who wants to go to a conference in San Diego? I got four free tickets to give away. The conference is the Pronto Tax Knowledge Share extravaganza. It's happening July 25th and July 26th in San Diego, California. They let 150 people in. I've got four free tickets. I'll put a link in the show notes for how to redeem your free ticket if you are one of the first four people. If you're in the area and you do tax, this is, this is a conference for tax folks. If you're in the area and you do tax and you listen to the show, pull the car over, put the lawnmower in neutral, swipe on over to the show notes. Do it. I'm going to be there. I guess I didn't say this. I will be keynoting the first day in the morning. So I'll be there hanging out the first day. Who knows what else we'll do. Maybe we'll record a live like Jason Daly, something like that. But this is cool. I've been in touch with the guy that runs this. It's like a just kind of like a fun little local tax conference that they've run for two years now in the San Diego area and should be fun. So if you're local, definitely check that out. And if you miss out on the whatever the four free tickets, stop being a cheapskate. Just buy the ticket and come hang out. That's all I got for today. Happy Monday. I'll see you tomorrow.