046 Loyalty in Accounting Firms

Nobody wants to work right now. Don't worry though. They'll all come back when they run out of money, when they realize that accounting was the better thing for them. Please. You think work life balance is something new, something these kids created? Hey, it's Old Timey Tuesday. Let's talk about how to get the Youngs back to work back into your accounting firm. If you're in a traditional firm, you're probably hearing this a lot right now. So. So let's talk about it. Come on in. I don't know if you ever heard this. So this is Old Timey Tuesday where we talk about some of the hard things about being a staff person in more traditional legacy accounting firms. There are a lot of these accountants out there. We gotta support them so that they don't leave and so that we can eventually sucker them into coming and working for us, the better firms. Right? So today on Old Timey Tuesday, we are talking about, we're talking about the youths and we're talking about why people just don't want to work anymore. You know, it's just now like it used to be about how this must all just be a cycle. We've seen this before where it was hard to hire an accounting and then a couple years later it was fine and we had more accountants then than ever. I heard that dialogue a ton when I was like coming of age in an accounting firm. So if this is something you're grappling with in your firm right now, let's talk about it and kind of some practical ways to navigate this in a more traditional firm. And for you, super, super cool, super modern, super woke forward looking firms where this doesn't apply to you. Man, if you had to navigate this stuff. Please share your thoughts in the comments so that the folks that are in the thick of this have some, some kind of encouragement and like practical advice for how to get through this stuff. So what's got me hot on this right now is over the weekend I posted a video to the main YouTube channel About Me leaving public accounting and everything that went into that. I've talked about it on this show before. Kind of all the really hard, really like emotional aspects of leaving an accounting firm that you'd helped built and all of the people that you disappoint in the process and how letting down your colleagues and all of that is hard. But ultimately the framing of the video was I didn't want to be the guy who would put his cape on and go into work and be everybody's hero at work and in the process, let down like all the people who actually care about me, like my family and the people closest to me and all of that. And that's a trap, that's a really easy trap to fall into, is to go out and work your butt off and you know, be well respected and all that stuff in kind of the professional side of your life, while the rest of your life is kind of in pieces and doesn't get any of the same TLC that your business and your clients and your colleagues get. And whenever I post these videos about kind of doing the hard thing and making what can feel like making a decision that can feel selfish, whenever I post this sort of thing, it's always the most most disliked type of content that I do. Probably the most liked too, it's probably just more divisive. But there's always a lot of folks that like, who don't like that take and who hear it as like, oh, you're not just rolling up your sleeves and like doing your best for everybody around you. And like, I get that and, but like that's kind of the struggle, like that's kind of the tug of war is being that for everybody, which is, which is good. Like, you know, being there for, for your colleagues and for your clients, not leaving people flapping in the breeze. But it's really about when that goes too far and when you pay the price for that and when your family pays the price for that. Because I think if we look around us, we see a lot of those people, maybe even people in your own life who, maybe even yourself, who have been the hero for so long, ultimately you pay the price for it. But these videos get a lot of dislikes, you get some salty comments and it's oftentimes around, you know, how people should be, should be loyal, you know, like, whereas, whereas loyalty gone. This sort of generation of worker, like, they think so differently, they work so differently. Like, you know, where has loyalty gone? Where you would go in and put in decades in a company job before you would go to another role. And these days, you know, you've got these snowflakes that are job hopping every single year. You know, people just, they just don't. I don't know, I've heard it framed a whole bunch of different ways, but they don't have like the same respect for the employer, the same loyalty that they once did. And bigger firms and more traditional firms are like up to their neck in this right now. Obviously with all the people who quit and went on to do different things during COVID and all of that. I think a lot of the folks that saw my video and had a negative reaction associated that with, you know, kind of the trend of the last few years of people. I mean, in many situations, like getting out of situations that were not the best for them and at kind of putting life in perspective and going out and doing something different, whether it was accounting or not. But what I think often happens in the more traditional environments is, you know, they insist it's all going to come back around. And even some of the comments on my video were that way, were like, you'll be back. Just wait until, you know, X, Y, Z down the road. You need money, this and that. Like, just. You'll. You'll come back. You'll come back into running accounting firms or into working in accounting firms. Which I thought was especially funny as a comment on my video. Like, did you watch the video? But, you know, where these conversations are happen, happening. You know, some of this may be true, and definitely, you know, the younger generations, they have a different approach to. To work. Whether it's right or wrong, it is definitely different. But none of this dialogue gets you any closer to a staffing plan. Like, gets you no closer to solving the problem. And so I'm not super interested in the dialogue of, like, why it is the way that it is and, you know, the validity of any specific part of it as much as, okay, what do we do next? Like, we gotta get work done. Like, we need to replace those two people that just left. Like, what happens next? And I've had, and, like, in the process of, like, before coming into firm ownership there, I had a few kind of big aha moments that I've shared before. Like, one of them was getting over the notion of quote, unquote, winning work. Maybe that'd be another good one for Old Timey Tuesday. I got over the notion of. Of winning work and, like, the machismo that goes into closing every deal. And, like, you've heard the people who are like, I've never sat down across from a potential lead and not closed them. Like. Like, we've seen that machismo before. And what you're actually doing is just, like, letting anything and everything in the door and usually giving away than anyone, giving away more than anyone else was willing to give away to get that client. And so, like, you know, that was one of my big sort of like, aha moments of like, oh, no, we're actually letting awful stuff in the door. We shouldn't be doing this. But another really big one for me was in a conversation with kind of some more traditional leadership about getting some of my staff out to like accounting conferences and stuff like that. And there's a really big fear oftentimes around developing people and this sort of lingering what if that is like, well, what if they learn xyz? Or what if they find this other thing and it's better? And it's like, it's like your staff are children and you are trying to prevent them from finding out this truth about the universe that will make them go then work for somebody else. It's like, it's as if some people are employing members of the team, like under this pseudo reality where if somebody else comes along and takes the blindfold off, they're gonna be gone, right? Like, I encountered this. I encountered this a lot. I encountered this. Now in retrospect, I saw, I now see a lot of this kind of stunted my growth. Early on there was some kind of like personal development, things that I wanted to go out and do that I thought would help the firm. And I was like, why can I not do this? And I realized in retrospect, it's oftentimes out of the fear that that person is going to mature to a point to where that firm is no longer the best thing for them. And you know, when I went out and built an accounting practice for the first time, I tried, I grappled with that a lot to think through, like, what is the best type of person for these kind of very different roles that we're going to have within the practice. And what I landed on was like, ultimately, you know, the best manager, I think is the one that is building those roles. Not with the intent of like chaining somebody to them until the end of time, but more through the lens of how do I align what I need with what is best for this person at a given stage in their career? Because that's not gonna be the same thing forever. But like, if like in my mind, like the best managers I've ever had, like, they were happy for me when I found something better or they were happy for me when I grew and all that. And so like my, when I first started like managing teams, I really grappled with the, like balancing what felt like this self centered. I just want you to do for me what I need with what's best for these people that I actually care about. And some people are wired to like, it sure seems like some people are just wired to where that what is best for them is not a big factor. Like for Whatever reason, like, I, I, um, really cared deeply about the people that I worked with. So it was really hard for me to just cruise past that and overlook that and be like, oh no, this other thing would actually be a lot better for that person. Even though maybe it's not in my best interest. Not everybody is wired that way, like by default, I've learned. But this like, kind of itch, like, I think forced me to grapple with how do you, like, what is the best way to balance what's best for them versus what's best for my company? And what I learned ultimately is I think it is one of those, one of those situations where doing the best by the people who work for you and helping them grow, whether that means they're going to be with you forever or not, is kind of the only option. And in most cases I think comes back around ultimately benefits you more than anybody else long term because these people are getting more capable by the day. You're enabling that stuff for them and will it take it take them to a place where maybe you're not the forever firm for them anymore. Like, oftentimes it does. But you also like, I would also say like the most, some of the most things I am most proud of about the teams I've run and the people I've helped develop have been when, like, they had great success and went elsewhere and like took the next stage of their own journey and went on to be really successful. Like arguably, if you run a team, there's nothing, there's like, there's nothing more, I don't know, amazing than that. Like, you can take pride in like results for clients and monetary stuff and all of that. But like, ultimately what I would take pride in more than anything else is did I help these people grow and set them up to be in a. Like to have an amazing future. Like to have this career that maybe they wouldn't have otherwise had had I not had the opportunity of working with them. This episode is sponsored in part by Client Hub this week and tales from the Hub. You remember last week, super smart accounting firm, totally a real firm, fixed their client request process by implementing client tasks. And Client Hub, they're leveling things up. They discovered Client Hub's internal workflow features this week. They use it to track deliverables and they were wowed, wowed when they found Client Hubs magic, magic workflow. It's GPT Power and Client Hub. Stop the music. Keep playing the music. It is still an ad read. GPT Power built right into Client Hub Give Magic Workflow a few words that describes the work that needs to be done and it will generate the initial task list automatically. With AI now, Super Smart Accounting is no longer putting off documenting their processes. Within a week, they're all set with their client work and detailed processes. It's all captured in Client Hub. Somebody want to take some pto? Remember that episode from last week? Unlimited pto? No problem because somebody else can pop on in, do that work because it's all documented in Client Hub. How's your documentation looking right now, bub? That's what I thought. That's it for this week's installment of Tales from the Hub. Learn more about Client Hub the link at the Show Notes hey. This episode is sponsored in part by dark horse CPAs. Ever heard of them? Hey. In an age of rapidly evolving AI, Dark Horse CPAs has decided to entirely abandon the computer and go back to doing everything by hand. Bold move. We'll see how it works out. They believe that public accounting is rooted in miserable toiling. So to deprive accountants of the pride and bragging rights of working over 3000 hours a year is a slap in the face. Sure, they could use computers to work half the hours for five times the what is this ad read, but what is an accountant if not burned out and underpaid? Sure, they could be known to their family and actually have relationships with them, but the truth is, accountants just don't like people. And if you're looking for a firm that will exercise an undue amount of control over your life and actively participate in the decline of your physical and mental health, you should get in touch with the overlords of Dark Horse. I feel like somebody that doesn't like Dark Horse just bought an ad on on this show. This is tongue in cheek. They're passively seeking mediocre talent to fill roles that are obsolete to the modern accounting firm and would appreciate the opportunity to stunt your career growth for as long as you let them check out the link in the show Notes to Dark Horse CPAs to learn more. And so when we, when we talk about talk about the youths and what they want out of work and all that, I think that kind of takes the focus off of how do we create a place that is great for a specific type of person at a specific stage in their career? How can we be the best option for that person? Like, ultimately, if people are leaving, it's because you're not the best option that they have out there. Maybe it's an accounting thing. Maybe it's Bigger than you. But maybe it's like, man, I just, I need more flexibility than I have in this job and so it's just not worth it to me. Or this was good for me before, but I'm not really growing like I once was. Like, I need to, I need to be in a role where I can grow to like, become that next version of myself. And so on the one hand you have, you know, a company that's trying to be the best option for those people and like, that is why they will come and they will work for you and they'll give you their best. On the other hand, you have relying on loyalty. And this is something I've gone back and forth on in like a number of contexts. Even when it comes to, like, people being incentivized to do their best work, like, you know, output based compensation, like, should you just trust people to work their hardest all the time or should their compensation and performance be benchmarked, you know, according to some yardstick around that? And like, at the core of that sort of discussion is like, how much can you expect people to just come and sacrifice themselves for your own benefit? If you're the, if you're the company owner, you know, going the extra mile, staying up all night, working like busting their butts for the company, I think that was a thing that in the past, maybe there was more pride in than there is now. And I would definitely argue that like, like myself personally, and this is maybe the only lens I can see it through, myself personally, like, I have always been a pleaser and I've always, like, my default has been just to work really, really hard. So even if there was not like this really like immediate tie in from my performance to my compensation or, you know, whatever that is, like, I would still work my butt off and try really hard to do my best. But if I had somebody that worked to me that was not wired necessarily that same way, is it their fault? Is it something wrong with them? Or is it big of me to assume that someone else would just, of their own goodwill, bust their butts just because they work for me? You know, like, is that, is that a reasonable thing to assume? I don't know if it is or not, to be totally honest. But what I've come back to is if, if I can incentivize them to do so, then like, the whole point is moot. So like, when you take it back to like hiring and people working for you, if you are the best thing for them, you don't have to rely on whether they spend all day on LinkedIn and are job shopping, stuff like that. Like, you don't have to worry about all of these other things as long as, like, you are doing the best by that person. So, like, you could put your energy into a lot of, you know, different things from, you know, being frustrated that this person isn't working as hard as you think that they should, or being annoyed that you don't get as many, you know, resumes as you used to and that people don't follow up when you try to get them to come do an interview. That sort of thing. You can fist fight with, like, your own worldview and how you think it should be, or you can try to craft the reality that is going to be most attractive to the kind of person that you want. And there was a stage in my life where I was like, I had this worldview of how I think things should be and anytime they weren't that way, it was frustrating. But at the end of the day, none of that got me any closer to like, solving my own problems. And so, like, when it comes to staffing and loyalty and shouldn't people just be this way these days? I don't know. Like, maybe. But like, what's the point of even having that argument? Like, in my mind, the only solution to loyalty, to the problem with the youths and all that, is to like, be the best option they have. And that's a bunch of things. That's compensation, that's flexibility, that's actually getting to do interesting work, that's creating like a fun culture at work where people are energized to come do this stuff and to help our clients and all of that. I mean, like, it's one of those things where I think, and I think Old Timey Tuesday is probably going to boil back to this oftentimes is you can sit there and like pound sand over like how irritated you are at change and how people aren't the way they used to be and how maybe the world isn't trending in the direction that you would like it to, but at the end of the day, none of that gets you any closer to solutions to solving the problems in your firm. And when it comes to the discussion of loyalty, of why are so many people leaving and most firms, it's just because that's not a compelling place to work. I mean, I think 95% of firms look the exact same on the outside. And no amount of knowing what a great place this is once you're on the inside helps those who are still on the outside. And so even some great firms that I see where they're tremendous people and folks would have great experience working for them. There's a lot of great firms like that that from the outside, you wouldn't know anything different because your landing page is the same as everybody else's. And, like, there is no. There is nothing out there that's really speaking to a specific type of person. So I think in many ways similar to how we kind of, like, try to network our way into a very specific type of client, I think that's the best way to approach hiring. Also, like, who are you really good for? Like, who are the people who will be really successful when they come to work for you? And why are you any different than every other firm? And if your answer is because I'm better, I'm me. I'm. What's different? Are you, though? I don't. I mean, I think I'm pretty cool. Maybe you're pretty cool. But, like, is you and the mystique around you enough of a reason for somebody to come work for your firm rather than all the other firms in town or around the country if you're virtual? I don't know. Probably not. So it's probably just a matter of, like, getting more specific about who you want to pull in. So if you are that staff person in that frustrating legacy situation and you're trying to navigate that, there's some real issues there longer term, and I ran into these, is if you're in a firm where they're, you know, not actually taking action to solve these problems, you know who's gonna get hurt by that most long term is you. Like, if you stick around, you're gonna be the one that's gonna be dealing with those shortages long term, more so than the legacy people who are aging out. So, like, this is something that is just as big of an issue for you as it is for, you know, the leadership that you have there now. And to me, the solution, which is easier than, easier said than done to build in a traditional firm, the solution is just to me, is getting more specific about the type of people who can solve those staffing issues. It's also often like a matter of approaching fulfillment in a different way. We've talked about that. It's maybe not as realistic as it once was to think that you're going to have a bunch of warm bodies sitting in an office to do everybody's accounting and taxes all day long. More and more of that fulfillment, the getting done of the work is getting done across multiple sources, from contractors to outsourced services and all that. So if you're up against like how, how do we develop a more clear model for what type of hire we are great for? Think about how you can sexy up that work that you're doing. This episode is sponsored in part by Fin Daily. Find Daily. Ever heard of it? Entrepreneurs, let me tell you, they don't have time to focus on their numbers. But Finn Daily solves this problem by sending business owners an automated daily email. You know what automated means? You don't have to do a thing. It just things goes right on out. It includes key metrics, bank balances and accounting for about a buck a day, a dollar a day. You know what? That's less than the cost of a cup of almost anything these days. In addition, Finn Daily allows the emails to be white labeled. That is slap daf firm stamp on there. Putting your accounting firm top of mind with clients because that email's sliding right into home every morning. Try my Brainchild. It is. I did, I did make it. I created Finn Daily. I don't own it anymore. Try my brainchild for free. Link in the show notes. Go check it out. Pretty cool. Is there a specific niche that, that you know, you're starting to get into that may be attractive to a certain type of people? Say you're going into E Commerce. You know, that's the sort of thing where you can totally find some nerds that are into that sort of thing and would love being on the accounting side of supporting people that run those businesses. Like what is that kind of end that you could double down on where you could find a group of potential hires who would have like a specific interest in that thing that makes your firm unique. Personal relationships are always great. You know, if you can find folks through those means. Most of us, man, most of us shook everything we had out of that tree like a decade ago. And the tree is just like a bunch of scraggly branches left. But absolutely, if you have personal relationships you can get hires out of, do it. Most of us are just way beyond that point. That's hard though when you are like surrounded by leadership that wants to hire a bunch of people that are just like themselves. And you're like, no, what we need right now is not a bunch of like another 60 year old man that shares your worldview. Like that's not the hire that we need today. That's a tough one. Admittedly. If you've, if you've had any success navigating that one Please do share. And if you are in the thick of that, good luck. It's one of those fights you gotta. You gotta take on a day at a time. Shower thought the old shower caps out. I don't think we've had the shower caps out in a little while. So somebody. So back when people were upset about my beard before I shaved, this was maybe a week and a half ago, I. I posted on Twitter when I, when I shaved, which was inviting more discussion about my appearance and all that stuff. And like, I'm fine with that. I don't. It doesn't bother me really. And by posting about that, I was inviting more of a discussion about it. But some of the replies in there, people were like, yeah, this is why I don't, like, do video. And like, this is why I don't post pictures of myself and stuff like that. Because inevitably somebody's going to crap on it. Just like anything you put online, like, it will. Somebody will love it and somebody will hate it. And that's just how it is. And I do think, like, there's probably a ton of folks listening to this who don't publish online for this reason, maybe from that place of discomfort and fear over what folks will say. Here are my thoughts on that. I will say I am a man. And so there's like, aspects of my experience are gonna be different than yours, and I recognize that. So with that blind spot in mind, I will say that posting online consistently for several years has helped me to develop this resilience that I would not otherwise have to. A number of things to people talking about your appearance, to people liking that thing that you did or not liking that thing that you did. Like, I've got so much stuff out there at this point that there's like, there's people crapping on, on my stuff somewhere every single day, sending me mean DMs, like, that's. I am like, distributed enough now that, like, that stuff happens pretty much every day. But on the flip side of that, man, I'm also exposed to so many incredibly encouraging stories every day. Like from the content that I put out. And this weekend when I went live at that video was a ton of fun. Like, I got. I heard so many positive messages from people that are like, man, this is coming at the perfect time. I just made a really hard decision. I feel like I let a bunch of people down. And that is like, that is the very best part of what I do is getting to talk with people about, like, positive change and stuff like that. But it comes With a bunch of stinky stuff too. And I do think there is value in building up this resilience. That is different in the Internet age. That is different when you're publishing online and when folks can be anonymous. Like, I mean, how many stupid Google reviews have you gotten that just, like, kept you up at night? But I'm telling you, this stuff, like, it is a skill to develop. And, like, there's. There's a hundred different layers of this discussion from, like, you know, online bullying and, like, all these kind of. All these different complexities that go into this. But I will say, as a general theme, I think the more that we can decide what we do day to day from a place of intentionality and what you think is the best for you and will get you to, like, that next version of yourself that you want to be, the more that you can make those decisions from within and not hit the brakes out of the, you know, fears of what this person's gonna think or say or something like that. More you can do that stuff from within, like, the more you are kind of charting your own path. And that's maybe easier for me to say now. You know, having done a lot of publishing online from being a dude and getting a different type of shade than, like, women will get posting online. But I will say, like, right now, in hindsight, like, I do feel like I have more agency than ever before just having the confidence to post what I want to post. Like, to know that I'm gonna post this video about me getting out of public accounting. It's gonna freak a bunch of people out. It's gonna make a bunch of people mad. But there's also gonna be a bunch of people who are, like, not about, like, leaving public accounting, but about, I gotta make this hard decision. And I'm worried I'm gonna let people down. And, like, that was what they needed to see in that moment to get them over the top. Not to, like, leave accounting forever to, you know, get, like, make that decision that's right for them and right for their family, even if it disappoints some other people. So, like, I am. I can take pride in the fact that, like, I can kind of, like, publish that. Knowing that is going to piss people off at the same time that it will energize people and give them what they need. And especially as more of our lives are playing out in a very visible way online, you know, from, should I start a YouTube channel? What will my mom say? What will my high school friends say? You know, all These different things, like, that's, I think, just like something we grapple with more and more as more of what we do is visible. In my opinion, there's no way to get over that besides just doing it and, like, learning to build that resilience and having, like, being on the other side of that resilience is such a cool feeling of freedom that I don't think everybody feels right now because they get to a point where they're like, it would be helpful if I did this. But then it has to go through this filter of, what will other people think? What will people say about seeing me on video, stuff like that. And I'm telling you, like, the more you can break down that filter to not let those people control what you do, right? Like, of course, like, in your perfect mind, like, you'd say, yeah, nobody's ever gonna, you know, stop me and keep me from doing that thing I want to do. But I think it happens a lot online when it comes to being yourself and, like, making decisions for yourself rather than somebody else. If you got something like that you're stuck on, share it in the comments. It'd be good to, I don't know, share some good vibes around that and maybe you can help somebody kind of get over that hump of maybe that thing they're afraid to do or imposter syndrome or something like that. Thanks for coming and hanging. I'm still sick. I'll not be sick one of these days. We got a sweaty week this week. We got Engage. AICPA Engage. Next week the show will be coming to you from Sin City. So we'll see how that goes. Recording in a different place. Looking forward to it. If you're gonna be an engage, let me know. Let me know. Let's hang and I'll see you tomor Sam.