084 How To Get Paid for Discovery Work in Accounting Firms

Man, if I had a dollar for everything that I just gave away in my accounting firm that I later realized you probably could have charged for that. I think discovery work, man, I am super hot on this right now. What we're gonna talk about today is something I've kind of been railing on lately, but a better way to approach discovery and get paid really well for doing it and attract better clients along the way. Come on in, let's get paid for our discover. Okay, so I railed on this in the main channel video this last Sunday. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. The video was basically like kind of a book review on Alex Hormozi's hundred million dollar offers. And most of us won't read that book, honestly, because it was written by Alex Hormozi. And I get that. And he is just peak meatball, sweaty Internet think boy. But we went through this book in the book club in my accountant community and it is honestly, it's been like transformative for me. And I want go deeper on this because most of us, when we are taking in new clients, we are doing this sort of upfront due diligence as part of the sales song and dance. But it's not something that you ever get paid for. But I actually think there's a different version of that that both attracts better clients and you can get paid for that's vastly better than what most of us are doing. And I should preface this with saying paid diagnostics and paid onboarding, that sort of thing. Like that's not necessarily a new thing. And I know folks that do it well and charge astronomical amounts for it. The big unlock for me, like, the really, I think like big realization I've come to is if I can stand up this initial offer, this initial project ahead of them becoming ongoing clients. It's actually a fantastic way to learn whether or not I'm really gonna wanna work with that person long term. But then also, as I said in Sunday's video, to pre dazzle that person. Because normally when I'm bringing in a client, they don't know anything about working with me. Like they have virtually no information. They don't know if that experience is really gonna be any the person they worked with before. But if I take them through an initial project that solves some sort of problem for them and they have a phenomenal experience, they are not gonna be able to imagine ever working with anybody else. They are gonna be like blowing at the mouth to get you to do their accounting work, to get you to do their tax work. And it completely resets the fees that I think you can charge to a client coming in. Because normally when they just come in the door and they have no experience working with you, they're benchmarking you against their last solution, against all the other people that do the same things. Even you're a niche firm. They haven't, like, gotten a peek into the reality of working with you yet. But if you are on the heels of a successful project, when you set those beginning kind of initial fees for ongoing work, you are living in a completely different paradigm. And right now, how many projects and clients do we struggle with who we brought in at a rate that we are no longer happy with? That starting rate that you bring someone in at, in many ways, kind of anchors you over time if you're not really doing the hard things when it comes to increasing that when you need to increase it. But the notion of being able to bring people in at, honestly at like, 2x the fees from day one, that's huge. A firm running a 50% margin, if you 2x the pricing, that is 3x the profit for a single project. So this doesn't even need to be like, the thing that revolutionizes your entire firm or shift exclusively to taking clients this way. But if you rethink the intake process to build it around these problems that you solve for clients in an initial project, can we build that fandom into the client so that they're like, I want to work with you whatever it takes, so that when those clients come in the door from day one, they're paying way higher rates than the way that you're currently bringing those clients in now? And, oh, by the way, you just got paid for that discovery. You just got paid for all of the work that led them to that place of being willing to pay higher rates. Now, let's dig into this a little more mechanically than we're able to do in that Sunday video, because on the surface, sure, that's exciting. But I think where we get derailed is really in the nuts and bolts of what it means to put together an offer, because this is unusual for us. And on this podcast, lately, we've been talking about doing a better job of solving the most painful pains for people, finding pains that are more painful so that people will pay you more, so that they will value the work that you do more. And that is the whole core of a compelling offer. So the people who aren't on your client list yet, what is the irresistible offer that will make them come in and take you up on this offer that solves some sort of pain point for them. We need to craft this offer that is irresistible, that will make them feel dumb if they say no to it. And then on the other side of that offer, we don't want them to be able to imagine working with anybody else to get their accounting done, to get their tax done afterward. And rather than just starting their relationship jumping straight into that ongoing work, we're standing up that offer upfront to solve a meaningful problem in order to make the ongoing work twice as profitable. Now, about a year ago, I was talking with Brandon Hall. So Brandon hall is a guy that works with real estate stuff. You'll see him on Twitter, on LinkedIn, he's got a real estate podcast. He runs an accounting firm on the east coast. And he told me that he does tax planning work for non clients. And much of the marketing copy is around how your current accountant isn't very good and isn't doing it the right way. And when I saw that, honestly, that kind of blew my mind. First of all, how dare you? But second of all, who the heck's doing tax planning work for people who are not their tax clients? Right? Isn't that wild? But what's really smart about it is, like, there is an offer there. Like, that offer is, we're going to do this, honestly, frankly, like, pretty expensive but really high ROI project for you, and you're going to get value from it. And you don't even need to be an ongoing tax client of ours. In fact, I suspect most of the people coming into this pipeline are not. But when they have that really positive experience, imagine how amped those people are coming off the other side of that project saying, oh my gosh, yeah, like, you're right, my person wasn't doing all of this stuff. I'm really impressed by how you've taken us through this process. I need to work with you. Those people are absolutely going to be paying top dollar. And when I think back to my firm running days, I actually saw this in the wild in a few places. I talked with clients and they're like, hey, I saw this other group was offering like this or that thing. Is that something that you could do for me? And I would like, I looked down my nose at that stuff. I was like, oh, yeah, no, that's all just marketing. We already do that, or, yeah, we can do that for you. But honestly, like, I was honestly a little bit afraid of it because they could build these, like, I don't know, kind of really exciting value offer, like, propositions around stuff that fundamentally was probably work that we were already doing or work that we just weren't framing in as appealing of a way. And so, I mean, that's totally how accountants are, right? Like, we'll see that stuff. We'll look down our nose at it. And the way I used to think about it was, man, they must be hurting for work. They must not have things figured out like we do, because we don't need the work, right? But I shared the other day, kind of like my mental shift around. I think almost all accountants, you know, who've had their doors open for a few years are right now in a place where they're like, why would I go out and market? I already have more people than I can help. And the reality is, you should always be marketing because there are always better people that could be on that client list. There's always people who are more pained by the problems that you solve than the people who are on the client list now. And so, in my opinion, at this stage, like, I should always be investing in marketing until I found the hundred clients in the world who most value me. It's only at that point that I should stop marketing. And the reality is, like, I'm never gonna find that list of a hundred people. So these people were out there doing this thing that I didn't really understand. They had, like, built this kind of, like, attractive offer. And it was an accounting firm, but that offer didn't really have anything to do directly with accounting or tax, or at least didn't nicely slot into the traditional bookkeeping or tax services that, I don't know, we're all kind of conditioned to offer. But it was a. It was like a very dressed up version of here's a thing that an accounting firm can do for you. And I think most of just look down our noses at that sort of thing because we're plenty busy as it is. But that's what was happening here, was they had landed on this sort of compelling offer that they could run a client through before they became an ongoing client. Then they would know whether they actually wanted to work with that client on an ongoing basis or not. And how many times have we gotten into an engagement a few months and been like, this person's a total a hole, or there's this or that, and now we don't actually want to work with them. So there's that. It's helpful for you to be able to filter, but it's also because I genuinely think on the Other side of that initial project, you can get people to pay you 50%, 100% more than they otherwise would have on day one. So going a little deeper on crafting an offer within your firm, because the more I've thought about this, I don't actually think that I want my landing page now to be like, oh, yes, we do tax and accounting. And a good version of that is, you know, the problems that you solve for a specific type of person. But I think I actually want to stand up my landing page to here's an offer, Here's a problem for you to solve. Because I would rather people come through this offer project than I would have them come into, hey, can you close my books for last month? I would much rather start with the offer project so that they understand how good we are. And again, prerequisite here is actually doing good work, actually taking good care of people, and it's not a super high bar, but I want to start them with that project so that they are blown away and then I pull them into the recurring work at like twice the price. So we talked about what makes up a good deal or a good offer in that Sunday video, but I wanna go a little deeper because this is foreign to accountants. It was definitely very foreign to me. And to be honest, if I hadn't read through the entire book, I would probably super be turning my nose up at this whole concept still. But there are five components to an offer and how you kind of stack those components to make that an irresistible offer that your dream clients will be attracted to. Again, the prerequisite to having a killer offer is finding those awful pain points, the things that really, really hurt for them, so that they will value you when you come in, when they come in and you solve those problems. Forum. Couple episodes ago, we used ChatGPT to come up with some niche businesses. What some pain points could be. Where we landed on was like this upcycled clothing retailer and specific pain point we found was regulations around selling secondhand clothing and the fact that you're an awesome filter for that. Because all of your clients that do this stuff, anytime they get in trouble, you find out about it. They aren't posted on social media about it, but you get, you get to be the bottom of the funnel of all these things that they get wrong. And then you can go out and create an offer managing regulation for selling secondhand clothing and doing maybe like this sort of review of their processes and how they're complying with certain rules. That's a killer offer. And it's super specific to the problems that those people have. And then when you get through that project, they're like, wait, you'll do my accounting and my tax also? And you convert them at a much higher rate than you would have otherwise. So keep that in mind. What is the really painful thing that your perfect client feels? And right now that could be one client on your client list where you're like, man, I want more of this type of client. What is that really painful pain that they have? Is there a way that we can craft an offer around it? This episode is sponsored in part by the fine folks at Cloud Accountant Staffing. 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I had staff in the Philippines totally red pilled me to like oh geez. Like we need to globalize the way that we get our work done. Check these folks out. Link in the show description cloudaccountantstaffing.com hey. This episode is sponsored in part by Canopy, the practice management system. Canopy unlocks the firm that you always wanted. Think about it. Close your eyes, lean back in that chair. What is the firm that you always wanted? Oh wait. Canopy unlocks it. And they do this by unclunking accounting firms with an end to end solution that makes your tech stack feel a little less stacky. Cause it's end to end. Putting our customers first with world class user experience, support, education and innovation rooted in customer feedback. Working and working well anywhere and for any size or type of firm. Wherever you are now and wherever you're going, multiplying your efforts so your practice requires less proverbial midnight oil, you know. Sidebar if you go to the Conferences. Kanopy's got like, they always do some like really good little like sorta, you know the stuff that they use to like trick you into coming to the booth. Well this year they've had like Legos out there, maybe, maybe a double down on the midnight oil thing, you know, maybe like I know give away a little, little, you know, little actual midnight oil. I guess it would need to burn too, but that one's free. I think it's a good idea delighting your clients with a modern, easy to use portal that helps you get the info you need when you need it, that is Canopy. Check out the link in the show notes to learn more. So the five components of a compelling offer and how you kind of stack these things into something that is irresistible, that is like a no brainer. Well of course I should do. I think the made for TV commercials are like a fun analogy here because that was like there's a whole science to like how do they make those things absolutely as compelling as possible. And we're doing this here, you know, in the context probably of a landing page or a web ad or something like that. And the struggle is how do I not make this feel skeevy? So the five components, Scarcity, urgency, bonuses, guarantees and naming. Let's start with scarcity. I think scarcity is really easy for us. We already are fist fighting scarcity every single day. Most of us are over capacity, right. And you, you have probably number in your head of how much additional work could we reasonably take on without being underwater. But for most of us it's really framed as a limitation and is almost like can kind of be embarrassing rather than as a marketing asset. So like if we turn this thing on its head, you think of how Gucci sells a limited number of bags into certain stores. That is scarcity. You have the same problem, but who's doing the better job of marketing that exclusivity? So we don't do anything usually to put in front of people, you know, if they're doing renewal. If you're doing renewals and you're trying to get them up to that next tier, maybe we generally don't do anything to say here's how many people we can get onto that next tier still, you know, by X date. And the reality is if you've got 100 clients and 20 of them are at that top tier and you want to get more up and your capacity is for 26 people to be at that top tier, then man in your proposal or something like that say, you know 20 of 26 slots taken, six slots available. I think the very, very version of this is something that updates as those go away. So like the whole goal here is you need to put that scarcity in front of them, make them aware of it. And I try to be really mindful of this. Not like this not being a slimy thing. Like it doesn't feel. None of this feels natural to professional services. Right? Like, and I totally get that. And that's like the whole reason I'm recording this episode as I want to kind of cut through that. Because where I was at before this book to after this book is very different. And even many of the examples in the book cook or for like fitness coaches and stuff like that. I had a joke in the video that was like, I'm not a diet pill, I'm an accounting firm. So I get that. But I think there's, I do think there's non scummy ways that you can do this. So specifically for scarcity. The more like real time, the more you can show them how many slots are left, the more real you will make that feel. Because people have this big time fomo. Like there's this fear of missing out on something that oftentimes outweighs how much they value the potential upside. It's like, I think human nature is. It's more significant to miss out on something than the opposite than to have like gotten into that upside, that downsides more of a, I don't know, more of this like, kind of driving force in our decision making. So at the very least it's something you can put in your proposals. Even better is like a landing page that updates as people buy. Or if you're sending out an email blast to people on this list, maybe there's a couple update emails that go out over a few days and you're seeing that those amounts are, you know, going down. Maybe it's even in the subject line. So it's like, like seven slots remaining, two slots remaining, that sort of thing. Again, trying not to do this in a skeevy way. Right? Like, I'm trying to be mindful of that. Okay. Second component of a irresistible offer, urgency. This one's pretty easy, I think. Well, I say that, but most of us honestly still don't like impose deadlines on our clients, especially when it comes to re engaging to go back to the VIP tier offer simply by only letting people opt into that certain times of the year. In my opinion, you're gonna drive more conversions because it gives them a reason. Act now and it's one thing to have a compelling offer where somebody bookmarks it and says, yeah, that's pretty cool. It's another thing to like tell them, here's why you need to actually buy today. And so to take it back to the example of like this intro sort of trial project, maybe this is like you know, a diagnostic of an accounting file or an overview of their tax situation and like a few tax saving tips or something like that to take the urgency thing back to this initial project. Maybe you do these projects three times a year. You know, when you've got extra bandwidth within the firm, you have to communicate that, that really, really clearly and explicitly. Hey, we only do this a few times a year. So I'm reaching out. Want to make sure you didn't miss the October 31 cutoff or something like that. They have to have a reason to do it at a specific time. Otherwise in the moment that you have them at that landing page, I think you'll generally lose them because there's always, everybody's always busy and there's always another day that you can do this. So like there has to be a reason that they do it right away. Third one is bonuses. And this may be the most, most sticky thing for like professional services people to get over. In the book they talk about using bonuses as an alternative to discounting your prices or negotiating your prices. And in an accounting firm you should definitely never negotiate your price when you set the expectation that everything is negotiable. Like that's just a really bad precedent to set in the beginning. And in the book they say instead use bonuses. And it's important to note that like these bonuses ought to be sort of one time things like not an ongoing obligation. Like your bonus isn't going to be, I'm going to do your S Corp payroll for you in perpetuity at no cost. Like that is not what a bonus should be. Bonuses should be something that are like one time deliveries of value to them. And I actually started jotting down a list here of a whole bunch of things, just kind of high level ideas of things that could be bonuses. And honestly most of these things are like trivial to us. But I think they're actually pretty novel to clients. But because they're not interesting to us, it's like we just kind of cruise past them. So running list of potential bonuses. How about a recurring charge report? So out of the accounting system you just get a list of recurring charges. Maybe there's some money to save, save there prior year tax review, documentation Review, are they collecting receipts and all that stuff? Can you frame, you know, any missing documentation in terms of like an audit exposure? And so that's just like a one time study of maybe you take one quarter and they get you access to where all that documentation lives and you do sort of a little review there. 1099 review, you review the ledger and see if they issued all the 1099s that they need to. Spoiler alert, they didn't. Maybe something around accountable plans. Like if they have one, review it for compliance. If they don't have one, maybe look for opportunities there and frame it under like potential savings or tax incentives for employees. Maybe stuff that they're paying for right now that could be reimbursed. A three year statement of cash flows. Again, something that is not at all novel to us. But how many of your clients, when they've come in, have ever seen a statement of cash flows for their business? Probably not that many yet. Cash is what they are always asking about, right? Stack review, Roast my finance stack. Kind of a tech roundup, accounting subscription review. What are they paying for their accounting platforms and is it too much? Maybe a one time like mastermind group call. You pull them in with a few other people that do the similar things to them. Tools or checklists, I don't know, not sure those are always helpful. An audit readiness assessment, maybe like run through and highlight any potential red flags. Internal controls review. Probably have to keep that pretty high level without it becoming like an agreed upon procedures type. Engagement process mapping. Oh man, and a book or an ebook. I was at a conference talk the other day and a guy had this book that he had written and it was like, this is incredible. And the naming of it was just so good. And it cost him basically nothing to produce. And so killer bonus is like, yep, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna give you a book. And the way they frame bonuses in $100 million offers is you can use bonuses to get them over the top in a sales process. So if somebody says, you know, no, if they don't want to move forward, what they say is to agree. And this is not a rejection of you. It's not this personal thing. Your offer is not valuable enough for them in their circumstances. So you agree. And then based on this potential menu of bonuses that you've got, you could say, how about this? You know, this is something we've done for some folks. Why don't we pull this in? Not gonna charge you any more for it. We'll do this assessment and that does two things. It is you being able to pull something that feels specific to their pain points. Because again, if they are rejecting this offer, it is not a reflection of you. It just means the problems you're solving are not painful enough for that person yet. And with a bonus, you can pull in something that is particularly relevant. The second thing that that does is it creates this reciprocity. You have given them something now, and it's very hard for humans to not then feel this obligation to give something in return. So you give them that bonus, they are much, much more likely to then say, yes, let's go ahead with this offer. Now, if you don't end up needing that and they just say yes, those same bonuses, you're still going to give them to them during the setup process, going through, like delivery on this offer, you're still going to give them those bonuses. And it's just going to be framed as like extras, like stu, knock them off their socks. So either way they're getting this stuff. It just impacts where in the sales process you're going to give them these bonuses. If they don't need it up front, then you're gonna use it to totally wow them in the end. And I think these are especially meaningful as you learn exactly what exactly is the most painful thing for this person. And you can pull a couple of those bonuses that are very relevant to the things that you discussed. Okay, fourth guarantees. This is a hard one for people. The idea that you're gonna give some unconditional or semi conditional guarantee, but when you're thinking of an offer on a landing, you want this offer, when somebody goes through it to be like, well, geez, what do I have to lose? And this has tricked me before. You know how many times I've bought something that's like, if you're not happy with this, we'll give you 100% of your money back, no questions asked. And you get to that and you're like, well, jeez, it must be good for them to say that. Or like, no, if it really does stink, then I'll get my money back. So what do I have to lose? I'm either going to buy the thing and get my value out of it, or I'm going to buy the thing and not get my value out of it and get the money back. And reality is, you know how many times I bought those things and then never actually went through the course or whatever it was. And I have never asked for a refund. So when we think of these guarantees, we're like, oh well, yeah, I don't want to get taken to the cleaners by some person abusing that vast majority of people. They're not going to do this. But even if they did, aren't you now happy to know that they are that kind of person? Right. And it's going to prevent you from doing the ongoing work with them. Dodged a bullet on that one. But ultimately that guarantee is going to increase the conversion rate of that offer so much that even if you do have to cut a check for some refunds, no big deal, that's fine. It's worthwhile because you're closing more as a reason result of offering that guarantee. I will also say, I think part of my fear here, honestly, if I'm being totally honest, my fear around offering a guarantee, some of it would stem from a disagreement. And the value that I assigned to the work that I did and the value that the client assigned to the work that I did, that happened a lot. I would think something was really valuable. They didn't. And ultimately in that case then the offer isn't good enough. Then I'm not actually say like solving something that is a meaningful pain for, for them. And so part of my fear was that it would be this way for them to actually say like, no, sorry, like that thing you did for me actually wasn't valuable. And I think that was a lot of like why I would struggle with doing some sort of guarantee. Like that last naming, some sort of like catchy name for it. And I put some pretty silly ones in the, in the Sunday video. But I think the biggest thing with naming is it has to be super specific to somebody. And the best mental analogy I've come up with for this is like if you're in a physical bookstore and you're walking down an aisle and you see the COVID of a book and that you see that title and you're like holy smokes. That is so specific to me. I have to pick that book up off the shelf and buy it. That's what you're looking for in the naming example. Something that can feel super specific to them that has some sort of built in value framing or timeframe. So like you know, 14 day, whatever tax review or 30 day recurring charge elimination challenges, I don't know, something like that. But then for a very specific type of person, for like what type of business owner. And they had this great example in the book that I shared in the Sunday video of just how impactful specificity and naming can be. So they gave the example of a, of a just a digital product around time management. They said he could sell the product called time management for 19 bucks, time management for sales professionals for 99 bucks, time management for outbound B2B sales for 499 bucks, time management for outbound b2B power tools and gardening sales reps for 2,000 bucks. And there's so many examples of where we sell the things that we do in an unspecified way too cheaply. And that's definitely the case with this offer. This offer should be for a very, very specific type of person. And the more specific you make it, the more valuable it is. But you can also take that same wisdom and apply it to tax prep. Do you want tax prep for small businesses? Do you want tax prep for creative agencies? Do you want prep for creative agencies? Over a million dollars in revenue? Do you want tax prep for creative agency owners? For busy creative agency owners? Over a million dollars? Like make it for the busy owner. All of those are like another multiple of what you could sell that for when the underlying work is maybe a little different. The services for the busy owner. Like you're probably trying to work with their team, you're probably trying to get direct access to things to make that as easy as possible for them. But ultimately what is that? Like a 50% increase in the work compared to like a 4x increase in the fees? This week's episode it is sponsored in part by Copilot, the uber flexible client portal. Copilot lets you provide clients a one stop shop experience, not a strip mall. This ain't no strip mall. You go straight in. Everything you need need one stop shop with a client portal that streamlines messaging, payments, file sharing, help centers, custom app access and more. Copilot Automations is a set of pre built workflows available on Zapier and our API that helps you save time, reduce human error and run more streamline business. You can set up automations that streamline sign up like new client sign up, onboarding, intake forms and more. Check out some of the automations you can set up with our API or with Zapier. Assign forms to newly activated Copilot clients. Okay. Update clients from new Copilot form submissions. Change of address, maybe you know the holy grail. Upload files to Google Drive when new files are uploaded to Copilot like that. Check out copilot.com to learn more and start a 14 day free trial. What have you got to lose? This episode is sponsored in part by by Client Hub. This week on Tales from the Hub. We are back. Last time we discussed how super smart accounting firm went to scaling new heights and there they learned about Client Hub's new vision. Your firm on GPT. Tell me more. That vision means three big areas of investment for client hub. 1. Generate it Use AI to generate job tasks and task details. Generate intelligent email replies automatically. Ask clients for missing information. What? 2. Answer it. Don't just search by keyword, just ask a question and intelligently look across emails, meeting transcripts, internal notes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even within files to bring you the answer. Oh mama. 3 up level it AI summarizes meeting notes and action items. It tells you what's in a file without opening it gives you a sentiment of each client based on their interact. Are you for real? Sound amazing. Be part of making it happen by becoming a firm that runs on Client Hub. Client Hub's working with you users to co develop, test, iterate and fully optimize these capabilities. That's it for this week's episode of Tales from the Hub. Learn more about Client Hub at ClientHub app or the link in the show Notes. I'm gonna shill even harder for this book. A hundred million dollar offers. The book is basically free, so the cost of the physical book is just whatever it costs to print it. And I think the Kindle AudioBook is like $0.99 because that's, that's what Amazon charges for you to sell something through that platform. Highly recommend. It is absolutely written by like just a. So like super stereotypical kind of over the top Internet influencer type person with like and his background is in gyms and all. So it's all like very masculine. I don't know, just kind of a weird energy that wouldn't normally be the kind of thing that I was into. But like when framed through accounting firms and the things that we're bad at and how we often feel like we're, we're undervalued and struggling to like get prices up to a level where we can run our businesses sustainably. This absolutely would change how I would bring clients into my firm. I would start selling around an offer, not around my services. Because I think starting with that offer means that when they have a positive experience and eventually go to your ongoing services, you're taking them in from day one at way higher rates because they are pre dazzled. It's rare that I shill this hard for something. But I loved the book and then the conversations we've been having in the book club have just been like super, super meaning and all the folks there are like, this completely has changed how we're thinking about bringing in our client work now. So if you have read this book or I'd be curious to hear from you, like, what your takeaways are. If you have read it or if you do read it, I'd love to hear from you also, like, what was the most impactful thing here for you? That's all I got for today. Thanks for coming and hanging.