131 Should Accounting Firms Invest in YouTube?

Buckle up, my friends. We got a special one today. A special one. Logan Graff. Ever heard of him? He's active on social media and is investing. In my opinion, way too much time for an accounting firm owner into YouTube. We're going to talk about it, we're going to talk about why. And I got Logan here with me to do it. Hi, Logan.

Hey, that's me.

Okay, see you on the other side. Let's do it. Okay, Logan, my dear, you have been especially, I don't know, it seems like in the last, like four months or something, producing videos. Is it every week?

Yeah, I've been cranking into high gear ever since summer started. About one video a week now. Tax season deadline kind of destroyed that for a couple weeks, but I'll be posting a video tomorrow.

Okay, so for people who haven't met you before, haven't seen you online, what's the 32nd Logan intro?

Yeah, I'm Logan, and if you haven't heard, I have a YouTube channel. I own my own CPA firm down in Austin, Texas, and currently dabbling in YouTube. So every week I try to make a video about running a CPA firm. How I run a firm, and currently thinking about starting another channel like. Like yours truly. Like, maybe just following in your footsteps a little bit.

Oh, wow. So your firm right now you have. You've got an employee. Do you have a contractor also? What's the firm look like? Just high level.

Yeah, I got contractor Brian and employee Gary.

Brian and Gary. You do tax. I know. Do you do any cast stuff? Any accounting?

I'm getting into cas. Yeah, I'm still working into it slowly. That's my goal. Less tax, more CAs.

I specifically wanted to bring that up because when we first met, I DMed you on June 23rd of 2020 on Twitter and I said, hey, Logan, let's chat sometime. I try to keep connected with as many of my cast brethren as possible. And you said, basically, hey, yeah, it would be great to connect. And didn't disclose at that point in time that you didn't do any casts at all.

Catfished.

You catfished me. Here we are.

Fished. Yeah.

Okay, so YouTube. You're a busy accounting firm owner with enough stuff to do. You got cute little kids, you got a wife. Like, what in the world you got that Mustang to work on? What in the world are you doing? Burning days, creating YouTube videos. Like, what. What is the rationale behind that?

Yeah, I'm burning a full day creating content, essentially day a week. A full day, like Friday is my content. Day, so I shoot and edit, and all in one day, I script the night before. And I could be running my firm or I could be with my family. And I'm doing this because, turns out a lot of people are interested in hearing me talk about or watching me talk about running a firm. And that's kind of how I started my Twitter following, talking about how I run a firm. Memes. Lots of memes. And, you know, talking about taxes, because I'm the tax telegraph, and I was going to be 100% talking about tax, but then I realized, everybody, all the views are coming from the videos where I talk about my firm and how I run my firm. And so now it's kind of encouraged me to help encourage the next generation of firm owners. So if you haven't heard, there's an accounting shortage. Apparently there is. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what Wall Street Journal says, and we need to inspire more people to run their own firm. And I think the transparency. The transparency that I bring helps encourage those to. To do that, because it is pretty daunting to do that. That's. That's one aspect of it. The other aspect of it is I'd love to monetize this baby one day.

And now we're talking.

Make some money off of it. Yeah, it's really fun.

So, okay, so it's on the pie chart. You've got. There's like, an altruistic element, like, you want to help pull more people in or, you know, at least show them a version of it that's maybe more relatable than what they've seen. I know, I know. Like, for me, also, I just didn't. Like, I didn't know anybody that ran a firm, and I'd never seen anybody talk about it. And so it was like, that wasn't even something that was even on my radar to know about. You really enjoy it. That sounds like a driver as you're having fun with it.

Yeah, I mean, I love being funny and entertaining. That's the whole. Like, if I'm not entertaining someone while I make my video, then I'm gonna stop. Because talking about accounting firms.

Yeah. There's probably more entertaining things to talk about and then, like, make money from it. Monetizing that thing. Like, what is that? How do you make that mental, like, ROI calculation? And can you even put your finger yet on exactly how you would do that?

It's a slow build. Like, I'm sure you know about this. Like, it takes a Lot of videos, a lot of time on the screen before you start to build traction. Same thing with building any sort of community or social media presence. It takes a while to build and once you hit a certain point, you start to see some fruit from it. So right now I'm starting to see some fruit from it. Like I'm going to be panelists in a conference at QB Connect. I'm going to be potentially speaking at another conference in December as well. So it's starting to open the door. And then I have potential clients actually seeing my content and messaging me on LinkedIn saying, Hey, I watched your video and I can relate. I was like, oh, okay. So we're starting to open up many avenues of ways this can be monetized. So either through accounting, industry related partners, or just other business owners appreciating how I talk about running my, my business.

I think like, I think a big blocker for a lot of people is they hear folks talk about that and like, they're like, I'm an accountant. Like, I don't identify as somebody that does that. So like, honestly, they probably don't even listen to this podcast when they see the title, like, should accountants be an invest. Be investing in YouTube, they're like, no, I don't make videos. I'm an accountant. Do you think you like, do you identify as like a creator or an influencer or like something that is different than those people you think?

Yeah. I mean, now I'm starting to feel more like a creator than an accountant. After making all these videos over the summer, I'm starting to identify as one, as a YouTuber, especially with this group of middle school boys that I hang out with every week. Okay. It's always cool to say that you have a YouTube channel. Okay.

You don't need any more context on that at all.

Yeah, it's something that I would love to move more into even though I have a CPA firm. I think you came into this decision as well. Like, how much time do I spend with creating content versus running my business? And then you come to the point where it's like, I may enjoy this way more and money is starting to come in to where I can pull back on the business or delegate more work.

What was that frame of mind? Like you said now, you said you're now starting to identify more as that because you're doing it more and like you've built a habit and all that. But what was that frame of mind before? Like what? Like why do you think it is that you just started Gravitating to that thing. Like, did you have something in you that was like, oh, this has always been appealing to me. Or how did you get there?

Yeah, it was like, I don't know. So I've always somehow been involved with creating videos since high school and taking a media tech class, making videos, playing with editing software. And in college, my buddies and I would create stupid videos.

Oh, wow.

Or I would be a part of it at the time. And.

Okay, people are going to work as you speak. Just drop those in the comments when you find them.

You'll never find it. We'll find it.

Yeah, we'll find out.

But yeah, it was like, it's always kind of been there to entertain. For me at least I'm one of those behind the scenes entertainers. I'm not going to be forefront. And I think that's what's awesome about creating YouTube content is you're not really in front of people per se when you're doing it. You are after the fact. But you get to express yourself in the comfort of your own room or studio without having the pressure of hundreds of people in front of you and.

The gift of editing and being able to make it all look polished and well thought out.

You get to edit out your blank stare or, you know, your unenthusiastic line reading.

Yeah, which.

Which I have to deal with all the time because I'm pretty, pretty monotone.

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It does. I've, I've like hinted at that or I felt a little bit of that over the summer when I was like, oh it's Thursday. I gotta start writing a script again and make a video so that you get to that point pretty fast if you have other things going on in your life. Because when you're also Running a business, you're super busy with that. And then if you're like, okay, I don't really have space to create this content and that makes you not want to do it because you just need. You feel the pressure to do the work that people are paying you to do.

Right.

So you really have to create space. And luckily over the summer, for a person that does mostly taxes, there is some space. So that's why I've gone ham over the last four months, three months. But I'd love to continue the cadence and hoping Gary's going to help me do that and free up some capacity because. And I'm also going to try to reduce my tax load as well, bring in different types of clients. So I'm kind of shifting my whole business now to be able to make more content. So don't tell my wife.

So right now are you planning to do that year round, if you can, the weekly cadence?

Yes. Now that's going to be a hard lift come into January, but who knows, maybe I'll hire an editor. And like I heard that's one of the biggest game changers. Just paying somebody like a hundred bucks or fifty bucks to do it, and all of a sudden you freed up like four hours, five hours of editing time. I think that's the direction I'm going to head for my new channel. I'm going to do like a tax channel. I think I'm just going to get somebody to edit it because that's what makes it more approachable. If you're just doing all the fun stuff, recording, writing, enjoying the end products and you don't have to edit it all, then I think that sets you up. I mean, tell me about your experience with that, like switching to an editor. Did you start with an editor?

Um, I definitely didn't start with an editor. Hiring an editor, not so depends. There are people who can go out and hire an editor and post what they got back, no problem. There are other people who, they hire an editor to do the whole thing. They get it back from the editor and then they redo the entire thing themselves. So it's definitely person specific. It is, I would say, even worse than like delegating tax work because it is so subjective. And the humor and the editing and the graphics and like all that stuff ultimately depends kind of on how particular you are. I have, I've worked with over 100 editors now to get to the two main editors that I have. So it was definitely me. It was, for me, anyway, it was definitely work because that doesn't happen. I. It was a big job because I have, like, a very particular way that I want it done to, like, kind of uphold, I don't know, a standard that's not always going to be necessary also. So I don't know. It's a balancing act. It's. It depends what you're going for too. Like, if the goal is to get more people out in front of people, then if you're. If you're capable of lowering the bar on yourself and, like, not being so exacting, that's probably a good thing, too. And so that's one thing that I've really struggled with on the subject of that second channel. I know you've. You've kind of been on a journey of. Of discovering, like, who is it for. So we talk a lot on the POD about making stuff that will attract a more specific type of person to your firm who will happily pay you more to do the stuff you're already doing. What does that journey look like in producing videos and thinking through, or not thinking through who it's for when you write it and produce it?

Yeah, like, my new channel is going to be all about tax, so it's going to be for the general public. But I'd also love to use it as a funnel, a lead funnel, similar to what Laura Lynn does on TikTok. But that means the. The care that I put into writing and editing and the subjects that I do will need to be for that specific type of client. That would work well working with me. So I don't want to be the tax strategist on YouTube because I don't want to attract those types of clients. I want to be someone that wants people to do it by the book, per se. So I just burned a whole bunch of bridges by saying that. I think.

So. Have you. Have you, like, thought through exactly who that will be beyond the general public? Who doesn't want to cheat?

No, that's the thing is with every video, you get to adapt and change because I could do videos more centered towards the general public. And then I can do videos where there's a call to action for people that I want to work with. Like specifically have a topic, let's say, over incentive stock options. And I go do a deep dive on ISOs. And then I say, hey, I'm available to discuss ISOs and consult with you on that versus doing a video about, here's how the child tax credit works.

Have you seen a model of anybody that has done this? Well, on YouTube, like, build a firm around a YouTube channel accounting firm.

Yeah, there's. I mean, the biggest, like, the most popular channel that I see is Carlton Dennis. And he has, like, I don't know, millions of views on some of his videos. And he also runs a firm. He's probably pretty successful in that regard. And he also, he makes. He makes videos that you want to watch because they're very catchy and like, how to save money. And here's how to deduct everything you want to deduct under the sun.

So anything else? Are you just looking at video? Are you thinking about anything else? I know you do social media, just stuff on Twitter. I see you doing some LinkedIn stuff also, if you're interested, if you're thinking about going towards the client attraction end of the spectrum, but also, like, thought leadership within. In the industry. Are you thinking of any other channels or really focusing on video?

Really just video. My videos aren't designed to make podcasts out of. So they're not long enough right now unless I'm just not thinking about it in the right way. So what if I could chop up my videos to be short little podcast snippets? Yeah, really just focusing on video. LinkedIn.

If somebody.

Yeah, sorry.

You did the same long inhale and look to this side that you did last time. That fooled me.

Yeah. LinkedIn is like an untapped. LinkedIn's an untapped area right now. And it's. It's very different than Twitter because I grew my audience on Twitter and The engagement on LinkedIn is. Is very different. It's. It's very interesting when you make a post, the same posts on Twitter and the Same post on LinkedIn.

LinkedIn's very back slappy. Right? Like, it's so. It's so, like, thankful and wow, great job for doing this post.

Like, so true. I agree. You've. It's a lot more positive than Twitter. I think that probably says something like.

Do you think a lot of it's fake, though? Like, I wonder if, like, it's just. It just generated a comment. Yeah, yeah.

Like, hey, I'm gonna say a nice thing over here. You know, you're gonna come to my profile and comment on what I'm doing. Oh, I'm gonna send you a DM now.

Okay. So if somebody is vaguely interested in this and putting together a video for clients and they haven't done this sort of thing before, like, what is one really basic takeaway they could have from this that would maybe lower the barrier for them to. To do something tomorrow? Super basic.

Yeah. I would say making video for your clients is probably the first step, like versus out in the wild, sending that video out in the wild. Because clients aren't gonna have the expectation that you're gonna be some professional producing a video. They're gonna expect a little dinky webcam and just you coming from, you know, the double chin. So like any sort of, you could, I mean using an iPhone or a phone, Android phone is plenty of quality even holding it. But like setting the low expectation on your ability to make it sound interesting, like, you know, set that really low. Don't expect you to make a really nice video. But I think it's very approachable for doing, starting with your clients and it's something simple and they're going to enjoy it. Because if you're a virtual firm and they don't see you often, like hearing anything from your CPA or EA or bookkeeper or accounting professional, tax professional, they're going to love it. So you could easily be like, hey, hey, clients make a general video. I mean you're all about AI just not being the expert in AI but being someone who is just looking into it. Like, hey, clients like this, this AI tool is going to be really cool. And here's how I use it and here's how you can use it too in your business. So super low barrier to entry. You can send it out in an email or a newsletter. It'll be really cool for them. Like I send out little loom videos all the time and they're constantly amazed. Foreign.

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Yeah, I mostly do one on one videos for clients and I've thought about doing a video like for before I do like newsletter every once in a while. I thought about just doing a video newsletter on top of the text newsletter. So like hey, if you want to watch this, if you enjoy watching things, you can watch me talk about this newsletter. I've just been like, like oh okay. I wrote this all and I just want to send it out as fast as possible. So I haven't but I am going to start doing that, have have the video aspect of it.

Yeah, thinking back, that is one way that I think I like exercise that muscle a lot. Early on was I just made it a practice that people were going to get video deliveries and I probably had like several Hundred loom videos under my belt before I ever put anything out public. But I do think people look at the really big, impressive public stuff and the stuff they see in their feed and then they do something and they're disappointed by how it's not that. But to your point, like, don't try to start there. Like, what's a really low stakes, you know, way to start, you know.

Yeah, don't try to be like Jason in your first video because it's not going to happen.

And Jason was not Jason in his first video. And people are always like, you're such a natural on camera. And I'm like, it's because I've made more videos than like anybody else in the space. I hope, goodness sakes, I hope I'm better at this thing. And it's just like, I don't know, I think of it like exercising a muscle. Like if you really want to be better than someone else, there's some, there's definitely being tactical about it and not wasting your time, but a lot of it is just doing it.

I found that making videos will help no matter what the video is about. It's going to help you like be able to talk to people too. It's weird. So I feel like I'm a much better communicator now in front of people really, now that I've made more videos because I'm trying to be more animated almost because it's like, I've noticed a lot of times when I'm talking to someone, I'll kind of do the same things I do while I make my videos, really. And right now just using my hands. Because in a video, if you're just like this the whole time, it's the lamest video ever. And so like being like a more interesting person to talk to is like a weird benefit I've seen from making, from making videos. And I think it probably helps with public speaking too, in a way. I mean, you've, you've been on big stages, so I haven't really been on a big stage yet. So would you say there's any crossover?

In some ways, yes. In some ways, no. You're much more aware than the average person of what you look like as you present because you end up in this weird situation where you are watching yourself a lot because you're having to go through edits and all that. And so you're definitely more, way more self aware. I will say in some ways, like traditional YouTube videos like hamstrung me when it came to speaking because I did everything off a teleprompter. I can do that super confidently. And part of the reason I did the daily podcast actually was just getting more comfortable speaking in a clear, logical way to a set of prompts. Which is more like what public speaking is, right?

Mm.

So it kind of, I had a couple of experiences where it was like, this is kind of weird. It feels foreign to me to like go off a set of slides. And so I did. That was something that I intentionally tried to get better at. But I do think you are much, much more aware of like yourself and how you present because you just, you see yourself do it.

Something else I would consider or suggest other people consider is this is going to feel really awkward. But doing a live stream for your clients or potential clients. Yeah. Sounds weird. But having having like real time connection with people is different than you doing something then they watching it later. Yeah. And I don't know, like whenever I do a deadline stream, it's so cool because they're reacting to whatever I'm talking about and then I can react to whatever they put in the chat. And like feels like you're building a community.

I feel like this is even one step more foreign than making videos for most people. Like streaming. Why do terrifying explain to me like I'm 75, why, why do people come and watch you stream on those deadline streams?

Dude, I don't know. Because it's someone they're coming to watch. Someone that is just carefree, good looking, talking about whatever's on his mind, explaining his thoughts and feelings around the deadline, answering any questions that they may have. That's the thing I, I ask people like, hey, for this last one, it's like, hey, if you have any questions about running a firm or you're wanting to run a firm and you have questions, ask me. And I got a lot of questions around running a firm, starting a firm. So it's very interactive and so I think they're, they're watching me to help hopefully gain some, some knowledge, interesting and wisdom, but also just to hang out. When you start to build a presence online, people just are like gravitate towards, towards what's familiar and they watch my videos and they've seen some streams before so they keep coming back. And it's probably like when gamers started first streaming, like why the heck are people watching me play this video game? Like there's, you know, when people start getting really popular, some streamers have millions of streamers or followers subscribers and they're watching someone play a video, video game, but it ends up they're just wanting to hang out with them because they like the person. It's maybe not. Maybe partly because of what they're playing or talking about, but also partly because they. They feel like they're a friend. So I think people are starting to feel like I'm their friend and that that'd be really cool.

That was totally one of the driving thoughts behind this pod is like, so many people, especially as we're working more remotely, like, we're working in isolation, and there is no aspect of like, we've lost, like, the kind of co. Working with other people sort of thing. And I know I really enjoyed, like, I built relationships with people on podcasts and on YouTube and stuff like that as I was doing other things. Like, it was like you're spending time with them. And that was really fun. But that is the big upside of live streaming is that whole, like, actual live interaction aspect of it, which is lost in podcasting in YouTube.

Yeah. Like now that I suggested to like, live stream in front of your clients. Like, I have to do that now. And so I would love that.

Oh, my gosh, you should totally do that. I would love to see if anybody comes and why. Because, like, the, you know, having content, having an audience that wants to learn about firm running from you, that makes sense. I'm trying to think of what the flip side client side of that is. Like, what is something that they're actually that curious about? Because if I work with beekeepers, if I'm a beekeeper talking about running a beekeeping business, I could see why they would plug in. But if I'm like a tax accountant for beekeepers, are they going to be equally interested in me talking and thinking through, like, I don't know, maybe I like, prepare a tax return or something like that for like this pseudo beekeeper. And maybe that's interesting or. I don't know.

Yeah, my. Any. You can talk about anything. Honestly.

Okay.

Who would show up?

You go do that and tell us how it goes. In fact, you should totally. That'd be a fun YouTube video.

Like a small pool to pull from, though, you know, I don't have hundreds of clients, so you could expect.

No, that's what makes this great content is when nobody shows up or when three people get on and you lose your mind and you're so excited that there's three people, but then two of them are actually your mom and that whole emotional roller coaster.

That is the video. I invited all my clients to join me on a live stream. Here's what happened.

It's like Ryan Trahan making a video about inviting 100 billionaires to his birthday party, and then none of them come. It's the same thing. One more question for you, because I know this is a big blocker for a lot of people is they're afraid of putting their self. When they think about putting themselves, themselves out there publicly, they're. They're like, oh, what will person X in my life think? Like, what will this person say or that person say? I think the reality is nobody cares. Everybody's doing their own stuff. But what has that experience been for you? Like, does your mom watch your YouTube videos? What does your wife think about stuff being out there? Like, what. How have the people in your real life reacted to that? Because I think that can be a blocker for people, consumers.

Considering it, you're gonna think that people will see you in a negative light. And that hasn't been the case at all. For me. I've had, like, no negative reactions or consequences from making videos, even from clients. You know, in my email signature, I say, subscribe to my YouTube channel. So I imagine there are. There are clients that watch my video. And that's kind of. That can be kind of scary because if you, You. You think in your head, like, okay, if I say one thing, I could trigger somebody and they cancel me, or they. They just say, okay, you know, you're. You're a jerk. Like, I saw you talk about this thing, and you're complete jerk. And then they just stop working with you because they don't like the way you're on video. Like, okay, that hasn't happened. So I think if people know you in some form or fashion, then I don't think that's going to happen. I've had random people tell me, like, oh, you're arrogant, or, I don't know, some. Some video I made. The dude's like, hey, like, you're. You have, like, a little bit too much ego or something. And, yeah, all your fears of negative reactions I think are unwarranted. Like, I don't. I think that's one thing that you should try. Try to get over if you have those thoughts. I have random friends. Slash, you know, people are in kind of like, my circle will say, like, dude, I saw your video, and, like, just random people and they, like, watch the video and they're. They. They, like, enjoy it and are excited to talk to you about it, and they could have no, like, meaningful benefit in their life to talk about or to watch. This video, but they still do, and they enjoy it.

It's.

It's pretty weird.

I'm always amazed by that. My family could absolutely care less. But then there'll be, like, this random person, and they're like, oh, man, we watch all your videos, and they're like a tennis coach. And I'm like, what? What? Like, we love it. I shared it with a bunch of my friends, and I'm like, this is about accounting. Why are you interested in that? Okay, let's ride this promo pony out of here. Folks who aren't following you, where. Where do they find you?

Follow me on Twitter, Tax Telegraph, Logan Graph, one of those things. Follow me on YouTube. You can just search Logan Graph. Probably. Yeah, that's it.

Thank you for joining us today, my dear. Everybody, thanks for coming and hanging. We'll be back tomorrow with a Q and A Friday. You got any questions, drop them in the comments. In fact, you got questions for Logan, drop them in the comments. Because he's on the tube also, and he can hop into the replies, right?

Yeah. Y' all just tell Jason you want to see more of me so I can talk to him more.

Yeah, we'll see about that. Okay. Thanks for coming. Hanging. I'll see you tomorrow.