233 Answering Your Questions About Fully Scheduled Work!

All week, we've been talking about how to move your accounting firm to more like a more scheduled approach to client work, rather than just doing things as they come in and just kind of like hanging on to that bucking bronco of whatever comes in the door that day, instead giving your clients specific deadlines and carving out specific, like, time ranges within your practice when you're going to do every single project, which, if you haven't done before, man, feels like a lot. But the benefit is the control that you get back around your capacity, the idea that you can actually kind of plan out your entire year, get away from working overtime and all that. We've rounded up a bunch of questions, kind of mainly blockers for this approach all week. We're gonna talk about all those today. Are they valid? Are there ways to overcome them? And at the very least, there are things to consider that your clients may get stuck on. So come on in. Let's wrap up this week of scheduled work in an accounting fir. Last day in Florida for the PASBA spring conference Today only slightly lost my voice. It's been interesting talking with folks here about scheduled work. I bumped into. Into a number of people who are like, oh, wait, that's. That's not how everybody does it. Like, that's just kind of what we've always done. Every client tax return or whatever it is has a project start date, project end date. It's all on a calendar. Like, we all plan them out, and that's just the way we've done back to the beginning of time. And it is funny how anchored we are in our own, like, worldview, our own kind of experience of how we've always done it. Like, it's. I know. It's not really until you talk with other people that you realize just how severe your own tunnel vision is. Like, where you just can't imagine doing anything else. And then you talk with somebody else, and they're like, oh, no, this is what we do. It's completely different. But it's normal for us, because I guess that's how we've always done it, whether it's better or whether it's worse. We are, like, very fixated on how we've always done it. Honestly, it isn't really any different than the friction that comes with asking a client to change their process and do something else. We may come to them with something that's better, and there's, like, some friction there, and it's not really justified. It's just because they don't want to have to Change gang. We're doing the exact same thing right now. Like when we, when we're like, I can't imagine this, and, and there's this blocker and that blogger. And then you talk to another accounting firm who like, actually doesn't know anything different. And that's how they always did it. They like, well, no, that's just, that's just normal. So a lot of this conversation is a product of inertia. Like, inertia for me was the hardest aspect of managing, you know, my 40 person firm is you had all these people and 1800 clients swimming in one direction. And to steer that ship was like, oh, a big kind of slow process. The reality is, man, normal is whatever you're going to decide that normal is. We're programmed by what we usually do, but the opportunity there is. At the end of the day, it's always up to you to define what normal is. And oftentimes we let our clients define what normal should be. Not for justified reasons, but because it's what they're comfortable with and what they've done in the past. Like, not unlike going through change management with staff where it's like, why can't you see that this is a fundamentally better way to do this thing? And they're like, yeah, but I've done it this way for, for a decade and I'm comfortable doing it this way. Right. And the reality is, does that matter? It probably does. Right? Like, there's like, you do have to weigh, like, is this just, just going to piss everybody off? Like, I can't be so robotic about it as to not factor in how it will be received by other people. But ultimately normal is whatever you design it to be. And so like, we have to be careful not to get too fixated on, on how things are. It may be unthinkable for you right now, but I tell you, you have a couple conversations with other people who are like, like, like we heard this week from folks who made the change and that was really powerful for them. But you'll also bump into people who are just like, you mean all your projects don't have a start date and an end date? And, and you're like, you know, I guess, I guess I never really have. And they're like, we don't. That's just how we've always approached everything. Not that it's better necessarily, but just that it's, it's normal for them. Which I thought was kind of funny. Okay, a series of questions here. The gist of the question is it's hard to imagine telling clients they have to wait to a certain date. So if you are used to just. If your clients are used to just you doing the work when they bring their info in, like that works, you know, like that's how most firms are run, is just bring us your stuff and we'll try to get it to you within whatever time frame it works. And it's the way that probably most of us have run our firms. But is it the best? Like, how can we improve upon it? Would the client be happy if they had more of our attention? And would the client be happy if we were able to turn around that work quicker? To be clear, we're not telling clients they have to wait to give us their information until a certain date, or they have to wait until X day and then give us all their info. They can give us our info anytime. What we're really doing here is scheduling the capacity of, of your team and saying you have up until this date to get us all the documents, so you can still get us all the stuff when you get it. That's totally fine. There's a deadline there. And then after that deadline we'll begin work on the project. And so what do you say to the clients who push back and say, well, what if I have my stuff ready before that start date that maybe, maybe you have dictated? Like, here is what your date is. You didn't let them pick. What if they have that stuff ready beforehand? Are they not going to like waiting around? It's funny. And in accounting firms, we don't seem to give ourselves any grace when it comes to performing the impossible. The notion that we could actually do everything for everyone all at the same time. Like if you look at other types of companies, like take a manufacturing facility, if you have a whole bunch of customers that come to them and want a bunch of orders all at the same time. Like, the reality is like, you just, you gotta queue that stuff and the customers are probably gonna want an expectation of when they'll get that stuff back. And some of them may decide that it's not fast enough for them and they may have to go find another solution. But we, we like will project this expectation on ourselves of somehow being capable of completing all of the work whenever the client wants it to be completed, which usually means it's skewing towards as soon as they get you the stuff, you know, later. And that if we're incapable of doing that, that is somehow our own failing. Like, no, like the firm is a machine and the machine's capable of outputting so much stuff at any given time. And if every single person comes and wants that stuff at the exact same time, it is not your fault when that can't happen. And so there will be clients who will be very self centered and say, I don't really care about your business, I want my stuff when I want my stuff. And then there will be clients who will be like, I get that you're running a business and yes, you got to spread out the work because it's not possible to do all of the work at the same time. The fact that there will be some clients who cannot see that is not a reason for you to be a failure for not, you know, being able to do everything at this at the same time. So yeah, there probably will be clients who are bent out of shape that it's like, what do you mean you can't do my work? The instant that I give you all this stuff, I tell you what I can do is try to accommodate that as best as I can by getting an understanding of when you think you'll have all of your information and do the best we can to get you a date that is as close to when you actually want it as possible. But the reality is I got a whole bunch of clients. You're not the only one that we're taking care of. So it's not realistic to think that we can do all those things at the exact same time. Some of the messaging around, like building an annual cycle for clients may help here so that they stop fixating on just one time of the year quite so much. And if you think about the various plans that you offer your clients, say this client is a client that gets their tax return in the second week of March. And you decide, for all of our second week of March clients, we're going to do year end tax planning like second week of November. And for the clients that you do an extra advising call, you're going to do for those clients an advising call the second week of July. I'm just, I'm just picking out dates here. But you can tie all those dates together so that that cohort, all of those other ancillary services also have locked in dates depending on like what that cohort is. And if you think about your different service levels within a firm, if the base service level is, I'm just doing, you know, your tax work or that once a year thing, that's the base level. That next level almost like lights up a different part of the calendar where it's like, okay, now we're doing tax planning also maybe. And then the next level is like, okay, maybe we're doing, you know, an advisory meeting or two. The more we can stress the annual cycle of everything that we do for them and how those things work together, the more we could take the fixation off of just that deadline work. And the clients who will have the biggest objection to that are the clients who only ever want you for deadline work. And the reality is those are the hardest clients to work with, the toughest clients to build a practice around, and you can only have so many of them. Unless you only want to work around that deadline and take the rest of the year off, your entire business cannot be composed of clients who demand to be filed, you know, within a three week span of all of your other clients. So we can try to help this with the messaging of like, here's the year round cycle and where we have you slotted in. We can try to mitigate the urgency of getting stuff done by the deadline by doing planning at the end of the previous year. But ultimately the really hard people to accommodate are the ones that just want to come to you to do that job once at your busiest time of the year. And an unfortunate thing that happens here oftentimes is those clients actually push out of that time of the year. Your premium clients, the folks that you actually want to work with, right? So like your A clients who you're doing year round work for and they're cool with you not filing, you know, before the deadline and all that. Oftentimes those people get pushed out of the way because of the people that demand to be filed by the deadline. And these are like C and D clients because you're just doing once a year work for them. So I think the client bases for whom this will be hardest are probably the smaller clients and the folks who you are not doing more like hands on year round work for. And to go back to what, you know, what we learned from Ann on Tuesday and her experience, the folks who most liked this new process were the most detailed ones. Actually the best clients, the folks who didn't like this process generally were not the great clients. And so even though this may create friction with some types of clients that we have, we have to always be thinking about how am I building the firm for the my dream client for the client that I want next for the best clients I have today and not letting my C and D clients take up too much headspace in the direction of the firm. Those people should not be dictating where the firm's going. You should be building a firm for your A and B clients and then you're like S tier clients that you haven't even discovered yet, right?

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A Note on Engagement Letters if you wanted to get these dates, the expectation, you know, timeframes into your engagement letters, how would this set up impact the timing of when you send out engagement letters? That's a good question. The I think you probably do want to get those dates into the engagement letter if you can. If you dictate the schedule for your clients and there's a lot of as we talked about yesterday, there are, there are good reasons to do this. Like oftentimes it is in the client's interest to file a certain time of the year and it may feel good for them to do it earlier, but there may be very good like technical reasons to plan at a certain time of year where you maybe ought to be the one to make the decision of what that right time is. If you schedule all these dates for your clients, that's, that's pretty easy. Then you know, you like you get all those dates sorted out. November, December or before, whenever you're doing renewals. And then the engagement letters can still go out en masse as part of the communication. If you're letting them book their dates. Kind of like what what we heard from Brenda Cannon, where they have a day that a calendar goes live and and clients select the basically the date at which all of their docs will be ready or a date that they want to begin work on this project. If you're doing that, then that whole engagement letter process probably doesn't kick off until after the client schedules. And because not 100% of your clients are going to schedule right away, it means there's probably not a single day where I can just send out all the engagement letters. It probably means when they schedule, it kicks off the next step of the process, which is to Engage, you know, get the engagement letter and the proposal to them. And so that just happens once they schedule. And that is all. If you want to get the dates into the engagement letter, if you want to do the engagement letter without getting the dates into it, then you can still do it, really, anytime. Shouting Derek Foote about. What do you call this both internally and externally? Like, how do we just. Like in accounting, inside baseball, like what, what do we call this? But then in our external messaging to clients, how, what, how do we refer to it? Is it queue based? Limited access queue, limited availability queue, fixed capacity scheduling, reserved entry system, capacity booking, capacity queue, queue stacking. I suggested over landing. I don't think clients will understand that. I do think, like internally with, when we talk about this with peers and all that, it would be helpful if we had a better vernacular for it. And maybe that's just, you know, scheduled work or fully scheduled work or something like that. That's kind of what I've settled into this week because I feel like it's something different than capacity planning. Capacity is more like aggregate. Do I have enough people? Scheduled work is. I have a very explicit expectation with clients on, on when they will get me their stuff and when we will turn around that stuff. One risk of this whole thing, as we've been geeking on this for the entire week, a big risk, is that we make this big, elaborate, complicated thing that just ultimately confuses our clients. So I don't, I probably wouldn't get too tricky in what I call it when I'm interacting with clients. In fact, I don't know that I'd even give it a name as I was doing that episode yesterday about how you put together a communication plan for your clients. The best version of this, I think, is not here's this cool new process. The best version, I think, is us just sitting down and telling the client, hey, we've got a, we've got a plan for next year. You know, we put some extra thought and time into this because we want to tighten up our delivery timeframes. We want you to know when we're going to be available for you, and here's the plan for the next 12 months. And you might, you know, there is, I guess in business there is like some value in naming a process because it feels like this sort of unique to you thing. But I would probably name more the annual cycle than I would name our proprietary booking, you know, queue system sort of thing. It's like, that's so inside baseball. I don't know that they Care and it may actually just confuse them. And I think I started the week at like this is this novel thing and I'm going to roll out this presentation to clients of, with a new workflow approach that we're doing that you're just going to absolutely love. When that kind of puts the spotlight on the change itself rather than just saying like, hey, we want to develop a plan for you for the whole year. It's almost like a, it's almost like a value add. Something new that we're doing for them is, is that framing rather than hey, we're, we're making this, this change that's going to potentially inconvenience you. So I don't know that I would even slap a label on it because if you do slap a label on it, then it feels changey. And I guess where I've gotten thinking through this all week is I'm trying to make it feel less changey for my team. Internally, there's a lot of change. Like it definitely impacts how we approach our work. There's a lot of admin that goes into figuring out what those dates ought to be, that sort of thing. But the way I stand it up externally, I think I want it to feel like a new higher level of service. Right. Not a change in process, but a higher level of service that's going to require them to pay more attention to some deadlines than they did in the past. But as we talk about it with other accountants, I don't know, scheduled work, work scheduling, extreme capacity planning. Okay, question from Corey in the comments. My question for these people is how do they deal with calculating estimates for extensions for all the people who end up with dates after April 15th? Yeah, good question. I think, you know, we've been talking about how we organize the full year for all these different cohorts and how a group who would you would file or their date would be this certain date range while their tax planning dates would be these, these other fixed dates. I think you can do the same thing for carving out time to calculate the extension estimate. So for example, if you got a client who's a July client, which means you're going to file all their stuff in July, maybe that means the last week in March is their dedicated week for you doing their extension estimates. And they have to get you high level information about what they have before that week. You know, if they're, if they're an August filer, maybe that means the first week in April is the deadline for them getting you the high level info for you to do that, that extension calc. It's more or less what we already do, right? Like for all the folks who aren't going to file, we somehow shoehorn into the busiest time of the year, that projection. The only difference here is we are like setting an actual time frame for when they will have our full attention to do that work and to give them a clear deadline for when you need the info to be able to do that work. So in that regard isn't really any different. It's actually we're scheduling that in the same way that we're scheduling when we ultimately do the other work. The ultimate solution here is trying to get them to do year end tax planning, right? So that ultimately they already know what they owe and they've got are probably paid up. And so there isn't any work to do before the deadline. But I think you could schedule like what is the time to do that extension just like you would any other work. Brenda had mentioned that they were pulling scheduling forward to December to accommodate this like beginning of December. So folks would pick their filing dates on like you know, say the 1st of December so that for the full month of December they knew the folks who would be filing after the deadline and could then do like year end tax planning for them. One thought Derek Foot had shared this about like a more, a more basic cue and he'd seen this in the wild from other folks who basically say that I will do X number of tax returns before the deadline sort of thing, right? And so whoever gets me their info first, I work on those things in the order that they come in the door and I will do X number of them before the tax deadline. If there's an upside here, maybe it feels simpler and avoids some of the administrative work of like scheduling everything out so explicitly. Right. That's probably the main, the main benefit is there still some risks here of a bunch of people giving you their stuff at the same time and then it takes forever to finish something for some people yet like yeah, potentially if everybody got you their stuff in early February, would it still take you until, you know, April to get it all done? Like probably. So you still kind of have the turnaround time issue. Is there a risk of people giving you a bunch of people giving you stuff too too late and that creating a crunch? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the fact that people are in a rush to get into the queue so they don't miss the boat means they don't give you the info late. Is there any risk to you not dictating the right time for these people to file. So for example, If I get 30% of my client base to do year end tax planning and then all my year end tax planning, people want to file in the spring, I'm probably going to be annoyed about that because they don't really need to. We already know what they owe. I'm probably going to file them in the summer or the fall. So it does mean relinquishing control over when people are going to file, where sometimes you want to maintain control over that. I would think about like what is, what is the motive, what is ultimately the motivation for, for a system like that? Rather than fully scheduling things, it just, when I think about it, I think fully scheduling is better for me and my team as we're trying to get back control of what our year looks like. If the reason is to be less restrictive with clients, I think it's possible that we're kind of, I don't know, not like putting too much power in their hands, but maybe like being focused on like what normal is today, when the goal of this whole exercise is to redefine what's normal. Right. So like the folks I bumped into here, where it's like, oh, that's. I guess we just kind of thought that's what everybody did, that's what we've always done. That's normal for them and it's normal for their clients. And so I would say this approach makes sense for you if you think it's the best approach. Like that's the North Star, not because you think it may be easier for clients necessarily. Like, I don't want to say that isn't a factor. But where clients struggle with this is, I would argue, oftentimes more in the changing of the process than it is whether this is better or not. You know, the whole like it being unrealistic to think that you can do everybody's work all at the same time. Like that's the reality here where I don't know that we give ourselves enough grace to build a system around the reality of the fact that we can't do it all at the same time. So I would say do this if you think it's like genuinely better for you, if you think it's something that'll go down easier for clients. Keep, keep thinking about it, keep processing it. Because oftentimes how it goes down is just very fixated on the status quo. When the status quo maybe shouldn't like dictate that. Right. We're looking for like what is a better status Quo that we can start building towards.

This episode. It is sponsored in part by the fine folks at Live Flow. Interesting Live Flow use case we've been talking about. You know, how do you, how do you get in front of a more specific type of client? And I shared that story of Barbara Corcoran putting out reports like industry reports.

And that boosting their reputation just in.

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They are today, but everybody got that.

Report in their hands and they're like.

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Well, it's hard to see all of your clients like financial information in one place, right?

You got to drill down into every single QuickBooks file, whatever.

But with Liveflow's consolidations functionality, you can actually connect to a whole bunch of different files and roll them all up into a single spreadsheet. Which means like you could set up custom alerting, custom benchmarking, or if you were to put together say, I don't know, a report of some sort of like aggregate metrics, trends, that sort of thing. Let's say you got a new little, new little beekeeping niche that maybe you're working on. I said bees beekeeping. Let's say I got 15 of those clients right now and I want to put out a little report and I could roll up those 15 into some consolidated reporting. I look for some trends if I see some trends, ask that client if they want to, you know, be interviewed and be a part of this report. And it is all because LifeLow's consolidations feature lets you roll up a bunch of different companies whether they have the same chart of accounts or not. I did a five minute demo day if you haven't seen it yet on YouTube. Pretty cool. Showing off the consolidations feature. Just a super quick visual like the cleanest way I've ever seen. Like most straightforward UI for doing big complex consolidations. There's a lot of good information in those accounting files and it's in some ways like it's kind of trapped in those ledgers. Live Flow, it's a good way to get them out to your spreadsheets. Be it Google Sheets or now Excel they support.

Pretty exciting.

Learn more about Lifelo. Check out the link in the show notes. This episode is sponsored in part by Right Networks Gang. Exciting news here. Now I know tax season just ended and you need a great, you need a great place to rest and recharge. You know, I love technology and how it can elevate the accounting profession. So today I want to tell you about right now. It is a brand new conference I will be a part of in Austin this May. It's designed for accounting tax professionals. Right now is where you can connect and collaborate with thought leaders and an established peer community to learn all the ways you can grow your firm and the speaker lineup dash amazing. You got worldwide AI sensation Dr. Radhika Dirks, the innovative folks from RightWorks, plus leading accounting experts coming together to give you the tools, insights and secrets to make your firm all it can be. Hello, I'm speaking. I didn't make it on the list in the ad copy. That's an outrage. And right now you can save 15% on registration when you visit rightworks.com right now and enter the code STATS15. That's STATS15. It's all happening May 14 through 16 in Austin, Texas. You won't want to miss it. I'll put the link in the show notes along with that code. I'd love to see you there. Come hang in Austin.

Last one here. Jared hall had shared that he struggled this year with folks being really anxious and in a rush to get their stuff in but not having all of their documents and like there being those couple brokerage statements or the K1 or something like that that they're waiting on. So they're like all hot to trot to get it done but then they don't have all their info and so you have the the age old like starty stoppy problem. Right. Bill Albuquerque actually tossed in a helpful reply here. One way to mitigate this is request lists like explicit document request lists. And this can be helpful through the lens of you and the client having agreed upon standard for what even is complete information. Because the more that we gatekeep and you know in a perfect world we never start a project until we have everything. But if I tell a client that what is everything that can be sticky and that's one nice thing about document request lists is I'm like well Here are your 20 request items. It's done when you've done all of these. And that's pretty clear for everybody to understand thinking about other people's setups and how they manage the whole not having all the documents in and Brenda set up they're asking people to schedule according to when they'll have all their docs in. So they're asking their clients don't schedule a date earlier than when you will have all of your stuff. In Ann's case, if they can't get the Setup. If they can't get the work completed in two weeks, it just gets extended. So in that case, if the client's date was too early and they didn't have their stuff, they would probably just get extended. So that case, there's actually kind of a penalty for the client saying they will be ready to go before they're actually ready to go. And so maybe this is a case where, you know, a penalty makes some sense and puts a little bit more pressure back on the client to be mindful of when they will actually be ready to go. Because if you're doing this like start stop thing with all of your clients, that kind of just becomes a mess. I would try really hard to stick to your guns on not doing the work until you have all of the info. And I know that there's all these fringe scenarios that are really hard with this, like an itty bitty K one or one last brokerage statement or something like that. But across your entire client base, if you have all of these almost done projects that you're picking up and putting down, that stuff adds up. And so as much as possible, I would, I would try to stick to not getting down into that work until we actually have everything that we need to finish the work. One other thing to think about here is what is the ultimately the source of that urgency they're feeling and is there a way to mitigate it? Can we get more of those folks on year end tax planning if they feel that urgency, can we tell them the solution to this urgency is not waiting until the last minute to file, it's to do more planning the previous year. So I guess that would be my two main, main tips is think about any other ways that you could try to depressurize that urgency. And then two, I'd probably say say what Bill did where try to get more explicit about exactly what complete information is. And building out request lists could help with that. It can also be helpful for them to just remember like, oh yeah, I don't have that last brokerage statement yet. And this whole thing is the, the whole like tax documents coming in later and later. I mean I had clients getting amended tax documents in like late April, like brokerage statements and stuff like that. This whole thing, I think we understand this more than our clients do. It's just oftentimes not realistic and maybe not even advisable to file in February or to file the moment that you get your brokerage statement. Like it's one of those things where it's like you only potentially have something to lose by filing now. And when brokerage statements are taken until the end of March to get to us, it's not realistic that we are going to file everybody's tax returns in the couple of weeks between when we actually get that info and the April deadline. Like, that's just not realistic. We understand that, but our clients don't understand that. But it can be really hard for us to not bear the weight of that and it be like our fault that we can't get all that stuff done right. Like, just like we feel guilty that we can't do everybody's tax returns at the exact same time. We're like, yeah, no, this, we got to find a better system to like, somehow magically get all this stuff done when the timeframe that we're getting all the finalized docs is getting later, but the tax deadline is remaining the same. And this is why, I mean, I was just really stressing with clients, you have oftentimes nothing to gain by filing by the deadline. And I oftentimes don't even recommend that. And it's unrealistic for our business when most clients aren't even going to have all their finalized docs until mid to late March, sometimes even later. And I'm just talking like brokerage statements. It's unrealistic for us to file all of our clients tax returns in two weeks. And so here instead is like the annual plan that we have you on and how we're going to make sure that you're taken care of no matter what. And there really is not a downside to this unless you got to get a copy of a tax return for like, you know, a mortgage or something like that. But mortgages, like, that's not every year things, right? Those are kind of the exceptions that we ought to be, you know, willing to accommodate when they come up. I don't want to like, minimize that struggle of, you know, clients being in a rush and not having complete information. All that like that is like, yeah, that's kind of a sticky thing to navigate there. This has been a fun week. I want to thank again the folks who have shared their stories and been vulnerable to say, here's all, here's the ways that we implemented that. Here's what worked and what didn't work. I can tell you for myself, my thinking on this has evolved a bunch from Monday to Friday. And that has been a product of people sharing their stories, of people asking really good questions and having to think through the problems of having some conversations here in Florida with people that kind of recalibrated, like, oh, normal is kind of just like whatever you have set it up to to be. And we're maybe too fixated on what normal is for us now. And so thank you to those folks, folks for sharing. Has been a really fun week. Also had a blast in Florida this week. For the folks that I met here, thank you for coming and introducing yourself. For the folks who I told, nice to meet you, but I'd met you before. Sorry. I gave a talk yesterday and we did a show of hands. I said, who listens to the pod? And there are maybe two or three hundred people in the room, man. I think we had like a quarter or a third of people raise their hands. Bless your hearts. Amazing. That's all for this week. I got more fun stuff planned next week. I'll see you there.