259 How To Maximize Rapport with Clients

I once worked with a firm owner who had the power to brainwash clients into thinking that they absolutely needed him, that there was nobody else in the world they could possibly work with. And this guy got away with the most unthinkable things. The requests that he would make of clients, the amount of time that they would wait for him to get stuff done. And it just blew my mind. Like, why are these clients not leaving? Somehow this guy has this evil power of making people think that they need him and being like likable to a degree that is unfair. I was on one hand envious. Like my gosh, does he have this incredible ability to make people like him? But on the other hand incredibly frustrated as an accountant as it's like the reason these people are saying staying has nothing to do with the technical ability of this guy being an accountant. In fact, he's giving them a hundred reasons to leave, but they won't because they freaking like him. I didn't get into this industry to be liked. Super frustrating. The reality is building rapport with clients, it matters. It can actually help you get through, you know, know, mistakes. And a lot of things that just happen in the course of managing a client relationship. Long time, long time, long term. So I pulled some practical stuff out of a book to run through today. Just some things to be keeping in mind in the day to day. Let's dig into it. Come on in. Make people like you. Okay. The book people are gonna lull. How to win friends and influence people. I know, it's become a meme. How old is this book? It's so old. 1936, I was in diapers. But honestly, there's so much good like practical stuff in this still. And it's written so well in a way that holds up. If you've never read it before, it's worth giving it a read or an audiobook. Listen, once I pulled out these are like my favorite bits. I'm on like this old advice kick, trying to get away from like the hamster wheel of new information, the non stop social media feed, all that stuff. Trying to get back to like what's the old stuff that's stuck around. I like, I've been grinding like zig ziglar. I just been eating this stuff up lately. I'm going to run you through like a few rapid fire things from this book. A big trap to avoid when it comes to building client relationships. Some meatier concepts and then that is me. As in meat, as in carnivorous concepts, nothing to do with asteroids. And then an exercise at the end. That should be fun. My first, first time I ever saw this book in the wild. And this just puts into context how. How interesting this firm was that I worked for. We had, where we had this guy that just could somehow maintain clients rel relationships in a way that was unbelievable. The first time I saw this book was in that office, in the bathroom. You had one men's bathroom, one women's bathroom. This was a very small office. These bathrooms were one seaters. And in the men's bathroom there was like this, this bench thing that had all manners of reading materials on it. And just the notion that everybody that sits down in that room is thumbing through the same stuff. That was just always weird to me. And I still can't see or hear about this book without just that visual. But this bathroom was also an encapsulation for everything that was strange about this firm because these bathrooms were the kind of bathrooms that were just not quite far enough away from the client waiting area to expose them to whatever calamities have befallen the people in said bathrooms. And let me tell you, there's. There's no good way to navigate a client conversation in a waiting area that's within earshot of a bathroom. To make matters worse, the guy that ran this firm would often make phone calls from this bathroom. And because there's virtually no sound insulation, everybody in the entire office could hear any phone calls that were going on in this bathroom. So you can just imagine how this would spice up a day. One time he actually called the front desk from the bathroom and the lady, bless her heart, flipped out. That was her breaking point, as it turned out. Like the lady on our team, she said, I will not talk to you right now. I will talk to you when you come to my desk. A great boundary to set for a situation that should have never happened to begin with. So needless to say, my. My relationship with this book is complex. But as I went back through it last week, like, man, there's so many, just so many good things here, actually. Context for the book originally. So the genesis of this book is written by Dale Carnegie. This guy was like a very high profile speaker and coach and all these different things. And found that no matter how good his coaching advice was, so much of success boiled down to is this person actually just capable of getting along with other human beings and playing in the sandbox? And for all the technical and business wisdom he could provide, where it usually fell apart was, was this bit. And he had a hard time going out and finding like what is the source of truth for just how to navigate like human relationships in the business context. That's what led him to put out this book. That's a very relatable story. Just the nature that our technical abilities aren't going to give us the human skills to run a successful business. Actually I think there's a lot of crossover here to like the future of work. Like if you have a kid going through school right now, what do I tell them to do with AI and all that that's coming? Work has always been and will always be 80% can you play in the sandbox? So teach your kids to be human. Like show them the world, get them out of the country, teach them how to feel empathy. Like those are the things that ultimately drive long term success and that won't change. Anyway, some rapid fire stuff from this that's just good to keep in mind. People love hearing their own name. This is maybe the most like repeated thing from this book. Say people's name. They like it to get them to say yes. There's something about saying yes that breaks through that initial sort of context setting of do I agree with this person or not? Frame any sort of thing you're trying to communicate to as quickly as possible. Get them to the point where they're saying yes to something, agreeing with something that may be making clear that you understand the plight of that individual or identifying something that you do know mutually agree on. The sooner you can get them saying yes, the easier the rest of the medicine goes down. 3. Smile. I was at a conference last week and I was just trying to smile more. It makes a big difference even when you're talking with someone. Dwight Schrute's advice. Never smiles, will never show his teeth. He says in primates it is a sign of what is submission or something like that. And when he sees somebody smiling, all he sees is a monkey begging for his life. Generally not good advice. Smiling definitely changes an interaction. And begin with praise. Like don't be afraid to say you're impressed by what somebody's done you. You know how hard it is to run a business. And oftentimes when entrepreneurs come in to work with us, all we do is focus on all the stuff that they're doing wrong. When it's like behind the scenes is actually probably a very capable person that has some shortcomings. Oh Lord knows do you and I as well. But if all you ever do is make somebody feel like they're being nitpicked, that's annoying. This episode is brought to you in part by Live Flow. You know a really wild way that some people are using Live Flow. So Live Flow is connects all of your QuickBooks data to excel or Google Sheets. There's just a little button in Excel or in Google Sheets and you get a dropdown of every company you have access to in QBO and all the reports and you can pull that stuff into Excel one time, make it keep updating all that really wild way people are using. This is for month end closes for their clients. So you have basically this, this spreadsheet or set of sheets in like a workbook that is a template you've created and, and all you gotta do is connect it to a company and it'll pull all the different sheets in. You need to do the review from balance sheet P and L GL reports, all that in a templatized way that you can do the exact same way for every single client. And it creates this really like rich standardized work paper instead of having to dump out like a whole bunch of PDF reports or something to put together those work papers. That was how we did it. We had like a standardized file structure and you would run various different PDF reports for all these things and then annotate them. But that was all a manual process rather than creating like a big old Google Sheet or Excel workbook that has all of the reports that you want and it's a single template so you can do the exact same way for all of your month end closes for all of your clients and it pulls that stuff instantly. Pretty darn cool. We normally talk about the client facing ways to use Live Flow, but I know some pretty smart firm runners that are using it just for like closing clients books too. Turns out when you can liberate your data from QuickBooks and get it into a spreadsheet, there's some handy things you can do with it that's lifelong. More about that one. Check out the link in the show notes. This episode is sponsored in part by Cloud Accountant staffing. You ever had a problem finding staff? No. Okay, keep going, skip ahead, move along if you have had any issues finding staff. Cloud Accountant staffing is a great way to find talented folks in the Philippines to join your team. I've talked about it many a time. I was doing this four or five years ago. I came into it with all the spooky scaries you would expect hiring offshore folks for the same time. For the same time for the first time. Is there a stroke in here? I can't has talk. Today we started pulling Philippines hires into our team and it completely changed how we approach hiring. Cloud Account Staffing makes that super easy for you to find talented folks. In fact, I got a resume right here along with a video intro of a real person. Cloud Accountant Staffing's recruiters pulled for a firm. This person got their bachelor's in accounting in 2018, went straight into audit. Good for them for getting out of that. Spent the last four years doing accounting Month end close stuff. Full cycle for western Companies selected among 30 staff for exceptional performance. Wow. ARAP management payroll month end close financial statement prep 1099 bless their heart. Finding resumes like this in the States is is like pulling teeth and as soon as you find one, it is hungry hippos for every single person that can get their hands on them. Like I said, we got away from this by hiring folks in the Philippines. We still needed people onshore, but we went from exclusively hiring onshore to like one to one onshore and offshore. You're gonna have a whole bunch of embarrassing questions. It will feel unattainable, confusing. That's totally normal. You do it just by getting started and learning. Learn more about Cloud accountant staffing. Check out the link in the show notes now. Big trap to avoid here. And this is easier said than done, but the song and dance here is like, how do I keep this relationship at least somewhat arm's length because it is still a business relationship, right? Am I gonna be besties with everybody that I do business with? I would argue what we should strive to do here is be a good human and be friendly and be cordial and build real relationships. At the end of your days, the relationships will be what you remember. Not the business success, whether they're personal relationships, but also the business relationships. Like those will stay with us. I even remember, like back to my firm running. The things that stick with me most are the real relationships that I built with clients. But done wrong, it can make business personal. And toeing that line between being able to be friends with a client while also being able to draw a line between what is your relationship with that person and what is the business rationale for why you work together in the business, that's something that people really struggle with. And the test here is if you had to fire that person tomorrow and then you bump into them at the bowling alley next week, is it going to be awkward? If the answer is yes, then we're not handling this the right way. That is one of the biggest blockers to people firing clients is oh, they're XYZ in The community and I'm gonna bump into them and see them, that's gonna be uncomfortable. But if you can't still have a relationship with somebody that you fired when you bump into em at the boat ramp, then somehow that firing was too personal. And I think something that helps here is just talking about your business and the nature of like your business relationships with the client. We did a past episode kind of around how we need to tell our clients from day one every year we make the decision of whether or not to renew with a client and they do the same. It's a process we go through every year. Gives everyone a chance to talk through the state of the union. And if both parties then agree, then you move forward to the next year. But because we never talk about this like it's an actual thing, being, quote, fired always comes by surprise. And this is like dumping a girlfriend or something like that. It's not that you run a business at any given point in time. There's types of people that you're going to be good for and types of people you won't be good for. And that's just how it is. And that's not a reflection of whether that person is a good enough a good person or not, or whether you like them. You're working for that person because that is a. A partnership that will benefit everyone. And the reality is virtually never will one of those partnerships make sense for everyone forever. If your client's needs changed and they no longer had to file a tax return or had any accounting needs, they're not going to stick around and keep paying you. It is, it is possible to build real human relationships with people while transacting business. And if you're no longer going to do business together, think how can I manage my relationships in a way where if we did part ways, I would still have the same relationship with that person. I think that's something that we can all kind of strive to do now. Some me concepts from this book, number one, stop trying to change other people's point of view or trying to fix them. They ran through a bunch of stories of like, like outcasts of society who, I think they haven't done anything wrong. Like all like murderers who have done things that everyone else is, is like says is unthinkable. And they have truly rationalized in their own heads that that was their only option, whether it truly was or not. Story of a woman who's put in a mental hospital who's like dream was having this idyllic marriage and family life and all these things, got married, and it was not at all what she wanted it to be and began, like, pretending to be somebody else and pretending to be in this idyllic environment because that was easier than the reality she was actually in. And there's a quote from the doctor that's like, basically there's an argument to be made that she is happier in this state than she is in her. In her true reality. Everybody is living in a reality of their own creation. And that's just how it is. We don't need to come in and try to try to fix everyone. We need to acknowledge what their point of view is and understand your place in it. Like, if there is a way to work together. Oftentimes we miss the point here because we bring to a conversation or an engagement our own perspectives and, and the things that we think are most important. When this person has their own set of challenges that we're maybe not paying enough attention to, it's okay for us to want them to do specific things. We just have to be mindful of framing those things through the concerns and opportunities as your client sees them. Like, we can't be blind to their point of view. A second, call attention to mistakes indirectly. Nobody likes being told what they did wrong, Especially if they're an entrepreneur who's the big boss, and there isn't really anybody in their life that, like, lords over them. It's going to create friction if you try to do that. And just the fact that nobody likes being critiqued to no end, rather than you being the source of, like, constantly telling them all the things that they have done wrong, there's probably a more tactful way to approach that. That is something along the lines of like, hey, let's, let's try this different approach next time. Got this idea if we do this thing instead, it could lead to X, Y, Z benefits. That's a very different framing than critiquing them being punitive. This may feel like a hard thing to do when a client is, you know, say, running a bunch of personal stuff through business accounts. And you're like, knucklehead, stop doing this. That is the most personal way that you can communicate that thing. The better way to communicate that thing is, you know, we do audit risk assessments, and this stuff is the highest risk stuff that you're doing. Here are some ways that we could manage this better. Like, maybe it's a question of card management, that sort of thing. Find a way to call attention to those mistakes indirectly. Number three, make them talk. Step Stop talking so much. It's not about you. The biggest mistake you can make in like a discovery call is taking up 80% of the airtime. Everybody loves talking about themselves in general. The more you can get people to talk about themselves and their point of view, the more they're going to like talking with you. This also goes for email. If you are working through something more open ended rather than writing this big long diatribe that's going to be really hard to get anybody to read. So see if there's a way that you can frame what information you need from them to get them to open up and like, you know, see if you can in a concise way frame up the problem for them to open up for you to be able to understand it doubly. So if it leads to like them getting to the solution on their own and feeling like it's their idea. If you're dominating the conversation, and this is so common in professional services where you just send these massive emails and then they send a one word, a one sentence response or you get on a Zoom call and 95% of the communication is you and 5% of it is them. They're going to come out of that feeling like, let's just say not feeling like, like peers. Like that's not going to be an enjoyable conversation for them. So find a way to get them to talk. Two more notes I had here. Make them feel important. We kind of just like to dunk on people, not necessarily in a mean way, but oftentimes the way we design our firms will not make a lead a person to feel important. In fact, the traditional approach of the big boss bringing the work in and them going through the sales process and all that and then eventually getting delegated down to someone junior bo boy, that's doing the opposite. That is not making anybody feel important. But imagine if the approach was flipped upside down where when they came in they weren't talking with the big boss. Think about differently that approach will feel to a client. The normal setup is like they're being deprioritized. They do not feel important. The opposite is like they're working with the junior and then they almost get escalated. Now the blocker there is like, you mean I'm going to put my junior person through the sales process? That is the hard thing here. Sales and onboarding is one of the last things that most people delegate in a firm. But as long as you aren't thinking about that, then every single client relationship starts with you. And regardless of how you dress it up when that relationship goes to someone else, that is Someone they didn't agree to work with when they first came to the firm. That's not gonna make em feel important. This episode is sponsored in part by T Squared how digitally ready is your accounting firm? You ever think about that? You ever lay in bed at night and think, am I properly securing my data? Is somebody hacking into the mainframe right now? Well, great news. Let me point you to a completely free 10 minute assessment that will give you customized results instantly about your firm's digital readiness. It's from the folks at T Squared to help accounting firms like yours get their IT stuff sorted out. Oh look at this. We've been working with accounting firms since 2014. B Halls CPA past past guest of the podcast Sherwood Tax Little Fish Accounting Keela Has Keela been on the podcast yet? Alison McLeod I see here T Squared supports a whole bunch of smart, capable accountants, but they put together this free tool to help you figure out if you're doing what you need to do. You know, keep on the straight and narrow. And personally, I love self assessments as much as the next guy. Which Harry Potter character are you? If you were a pizza topping, what would you be? To be clear, this is not the this one's actually helpful. Check out the link down in the show notes. This episode is brought to you in part by TeamUp, helping you recruit top Filipino accountants without any ongoing monthly fees. The difference between teamup and all the other offshoring options is that Team up helps you hire staff directly. No middleman. You work directly with your new hire in the Philippines. Hire the person, not the company. Guys, Gals, gang. Here's just a few reasons to hire directly. You have access to higher level talent. Makes sense. You have complete control over team culture and training. They keep 100% of what you pay them and it's a lot more affordable for you so you can retain your team for the long term. Team up can source accountants with experience working at US or Australian firms familiar with tools like Zero, QBO and DeX. Also recruit specialist roles. Team leaders, tax specialists, administrative assistants. Thought Experiment what if you had an executive assistant for the first time this tax season? Just just throwing it out there. What would they do? Start at that email video I did on the main channel recently. Get help with that stanky ol inbox. I digress. Team up recruits these talented folks for a flat one time fee of 4,000 US American dollars. That's it. 4K one time. Somebody at Robert half just did a spit take. Robert half reference we ever going to get Robert Half to sponsor this pod? Not anymore. And they can connect you with an affordable employer of record if you need help with payroll and compliance once you hire that person. Big fan of hiring in the Philippines. You know, I did a bunch of that. Check out the link in the description to learn more about team up. Last, think about how to proceduralize rapport building. How many tasks do you have in your project management system that are driving this appreciation for clients, making them feel respected, praising their successes? Man, we're accountants. Like we don't, we don't build that stuff into our processes, but unless we do, it doesn't happen. So for example, if you build an SOP around scripting a video that goes out with every financial statement delivery, does that script include anything positive? Any praise? Probably not. It's probably just hyper technical. Here's what you're saying and here's what it all means, right? So for each of these little tidbits and little ideas, how do we build this stuff into a workflow? And like the very basic version is like, are we sending holiday cards? But there's a more meaningful version than that that can be a part of every sales conversation. For example, if you got a little bullet list of things that you need to get through, what's a way to show that like, you're impressed by what they've done? Butter em up up a little bit. This stuff is just so foreign to like technical accounting type folks, but has such a big impact on the management of the relationship itself. And professional services are 1000% about relationships. We want them to be about all the technical stuff, but at the end of the day, the buying decision is 100% relationships. Now let's put this into practice with a hypothetical scenario as imagined by a little friend I like to call artificial intelligence. Okay, here we go.

The setting is a cozy local coffee shop called Bruise and Beans, a popular spot for professionals in the community. The warm lighting and inviting aroma of fresh coffee create a relaxed atmosphere. Ah, the shop is moderately busy with a mix of people working on laptops, reading books and chatting with friends. You, the firm owner, are meeting with a client named Lisa Thompson. Lisa is a small business owner who runs a boutique marketing agency. She's been a client for a couple of years and has come to discuss some updates and possibly seek advice on some new tax regulations.

Okay.

Lisa is in her mid-30s, dressed smartly in business casual attire with a friendly demeanor. Looks a bit stressed as she enters the coffee shop. Lisa smiling as she approaches the table. Hi, There. Thanks for meeting me here. I really needed a change of scenery from the office. How have you been?

What's the matter with my office? Or was she talking about her office? Okay, this is your internal dialogue. We're already overthinking this. Okay, how do we respond? I smile, stand slightly and shake her hand. Thank you. Things have been great. It's a good excuse for me to get out of the office as well.

Lisa, relaxing a bit, takes a seat. I'm glad to hear that. It's been a whirlwind for me lately with the new clients and the upcoming tax season. Leans in slightly oh, speaking of which, I've been hearing about some new tax regulations and I'm a bit worried about how they might impact my business. Have you had a chance to look into those?

Did I come all the way to this coffee shop just to talk about tax rules that haven't passed yet? I lean in slightly to match Lisa's body body posture. Yes, there's talk of a new tax bill, but nothing's passed yet. In fact, it's looking increasingly unlikely that we'll get any new rules. Anything specific that you saw that you thought may impact what you do?

Lisa, nodding a bit relieved. That's good to know. I was mainly concerned about potential changes to deductions and write offs for small businesses. I read something about limits on business expense deductions and it got me worried. Takes a sip of her coffee. I just want to make sure I'm prepared and not caught off guard.

I nod understandingly. How did you get that coffee already? You just walked in.

Lisa laughs, relaxing more Oh, I actually got here a bit earlier and ordered ahead. Needed a moment to collect my thoughts before our meeting. Smiles warmly. But back to the topic. Do you think there's anything specific I should be keeping an eye on or doing differently right now?

I nod, indicating we need to get back to the point. Here's the advice I give people. There's a degree of planning we can do around stuff that might happen, but at the end of the day, the time best spent is on the things that we can actually control. Right now I don't see anything on the horizon that you need to be worried about, but we'll be the first to let you know if something does change. I shift back and forth on my seat as if to change the conversation. What are the kids up to these days? Cornelius must be in high school by now, right?

Lisa smiling fondly, visibly relaxing. She's so relaxed by Cornelius just started his sophomore year. He's really into robotics now, which is fascinating to watch. And little Ella is not so little anymore. She's in middle school and has taken up painting. It's amazing how fast they grow up. Leans back in her chair. How about you? How's your family doing?

I lean back with a heavy sigh. Well, the eldest is still in prison, as you know. Kids will be kids. But the youngest just started Boy Scouts. He's having a great time. In fact, I just heard the Boy Scouts needed some local marketing support. Maybe that's something you could help them with. I saw the work that you did for the Girl Scouts around the most recent cookie campaign. That was compelling. I got half a chest freezer full of Thin Mints. Still, if it's helpful, I can make an intro.

Lisa expression softening with empathy. I'm sorry to hear about your oldest, but it's great that your youngest is enjoying Boy Scouts. I'd love to help them out with their marketing. The Girl Scouts campaign was such a fun project and I'm glad you enjoyed it. Smiles warmly. I appreciate the introduction. It's always rewarding to work on projects that benefit the community. Let's definitely set that up. How's next week for a meeting with them?

Getting ready to be out of this meeting and hit the road. Let's wrap this up tactfully. I smile even warmerly in response. Absolutely. I'll send an email. It'll be great to see that come together. I pull my phone out of my pocket, pretending that somebody's calling me. But Lisa knows the truth. She could see the screen. Nobody was calling me. I lean in and say to her, I'm so sorry. This is my wife. I have to take this. Honey, I'm in a meeting. Can I call you back? I make a shocked face and gestures to Lisa that I'll just be a minute.

Lisa raising an eyebrow and crossing her arms. Uh huh. Right. Nice try. You know, you could just tell me if you need a break or if there's something else on your mind. We can always reschedule if you're feeling overwhelmed. Leans back, giving a knowing look. No need for the theatrics.

Do we double down on this? Uh. I drop my phone. It bounces hard off the ground. I pick it up and look at it. Oh, darn it. That was a really important call. Listen, Lisa. I come over to shake her hand. It was great seeing you, but that sounded important. I got a jet.

Lisa stands up slowly, maintaining eye contact. You know, honesty goes a long way in building trust, especially in our line of work. Takes your hand but doesn't shake it yet. If you ever need to reschedule, just say so. I'd rather hear the truth than feel like I'm being brushed off.

Oops.

Finally shakes your hand firmly.

Ouch. You're hurting me.

Let's make sure our next meeting is a bit more productive, okay?

Okay. Well, I think Lisa upstaged us there on professionalism. If you haven't ever read the book, I'll put a link to it in the show notes, encourage you to check it out. Thanks for coming and hanging today. I'll see you in the next one. Say bye, Lisa. Bye. Yeah, bye. Bye.