302 The Best Tax Software for US Accounting Firms (And What’s New In 2024)

The best tax software for U.S. accounting firms. I use the term best loosely. It's more like here are the only options. Today. We're talking about software for tax prep, software for tax resolution, software for tax advisory, and for workflow. All the stuff that happens before it goes into your tax prep software. If you are not a tax firm, if you're not in the US this episode's gonna suck. Unless you just want a window into how bad the state of software in this space is today, you're going to get it. So come on in. Let's see if we can find a. Just a. A wee little glimmer of hope for the future. What sent me down this path? A comment from Matt. Matt Pravat. Hey, Jason, can you make a video regarding the best tax firm filing software? Sure can. Look to your left. Look to your right. You're in it, bud. Okay. I bucketed it four ways. Tax prep, tax resolution, tax advisory, tax workflow. Let's start with tax prep. I'm gonna level with you, and we're gonna cut past a lot of stuff that I don't think is worth your time. But if you disagree, I want to hear from you in the comments and why there are enough distractions when it comes to running an accounting firm and making tech decisions. The last thing I need to do is waste your time on tools that I don't think are worth your time. All I do these days is talk with people who run firms. And every time I hear from a company that I haven't heard from before, a software company like, you got to use this thing. We revolutionize this or that, my response is, if you actually have a ton of people will get jacked about it, and I will hear about it. So, like, we don't sponsor with new companies at all. The only companies we do sponsor content with are ones where we can see firms having a phenomenal experience with them and getting a groundswell of support. So if I don't bring up a tool, it's because I don't see people in the wild having good success with it. Doesn't mean that those people aren't out there. And that's why I want to hear from you. If you are having great experience with something we don't bring up. But one of the greatest values I can offer people is helping you cut through the fluff. Don't take another sales call. There is a lot more valuable information here than you're going to get from talking with a whole bunch of salespeople. Okay, tax prep. Here's where we're at. If you want the cost effective option, it's Drake D R A K E now. Now some trade offs with Drake. It won't go as far on technical things but that might be fine for you. It is the best value for the money. This is where there are the most options is at this kind of level of the market there are a bunch of other options. In my opinion Drake is quite a bit ahead of the rest. Now one sticky aspect of choosing tax prep software is once you choose it, it's really hard to change. Like that is a level of muscle memory that I don't think is replicated anywhere else in accounting software. Dom I would argue even more extremely than your ledger software. I don't know maybe that's, maybe that's going too far. But changing tax software is will inevitably be a massive loss of productivity until you get up to speed with that new tool. And it may very well take years. Coming from someone who ran a 40 person tax practice and changed the tax software on people who had decades of experience with a different tool, I didn't feel like we had an option. I feel like we had to change. But it genuinely took two or three entire years for those people with 10 plus years experience to feel as productive with the new tool as they did with the last tool. So as you're deciding on what tech to use for tax prep you gotta be looking into the future. Like to say we're gonna use this for a couple years and then this other one. There's a very real cost to that might be a trade off worth making but something to be super aware of. It is far less trivial to change your tax prep software than any other software in your tech stack. Okay. Cost effective in this part of the market like Drake. Drake's where you need to go. I think one other tool that's kind of sort of in this category is and the only like cloud solution here is Intuit Pro Connect. Benefits of Intuit Pro Connect completely cloud based. It's a SaaS product. It's got some nice integration functionality with QBO but it's not gonna be as capable on more technical things. In what my firm needed. ProConnect was like not at all even in the universe of what we needed from a tax prep tool. And when things fall outside of that it means manual work, it means extra work. Not all firms are made the same though your client base that may work totally fine with right now the perfect like most streamlined books to tax prep workflow is almost Certainly a clean QBO file coming through to ProConnect. Like in A, in a perfect world, this has the highest ceiling of how smooth that can be. In my case, ProConnect didn't do enough of what we needed for, for our clients, like from a technical level. Now most small firms who are willing to spend more, not willing able to, I guess both and have some more technical needs, most of those firms are going to Thomson Reuters ultratax. Now for perspective for folks not in this space, this is a tool that has not changed in decades. Beyond just the calculation engines and form updates and all that stuff. It is still a desktop based program that most people are running a hosted version of.0 integrations on all of these tools. Even ProConnect, the only integrations that exist there are internal ones, not things that third parties can build. You'll have a couple like third party partnerships with like a smart vault or something like that to have very limited integrations with some of these tools. But when they are fundamentally desktop apps, there's very little that you can do. Now some small firms I have seen using CCH Access, but I think in most cases that's because they were coming from a bigger firm that used that. I still think in all likelihood, unless you're coming from another platform where you have that muscle memory and you just want to keep using that same platform, I think those are likely the firms coming in using CCH Access. Otherwise I see most small firms going to Ultra Tax if they want the option that from a technical level can do the most. And it's not cheap and it still sucks. These all do, every single one of them do. But that's where we're at. So if I had to boil it down to three options, if Pro Connect will handle what you need it to handle, from a complexity standpoint, it's a pretty good option because it's cloud based. Drake, if you want something very cost effective that won't go as far technically is a great option. Otherwise you're probably selling some Morgans on the black market and going alter tax. That was where I ended up. Now, things we haven't mentioned here. Lacert. I believe the ship has sailed on Lacert. It's still a thing, but. But it's not gonna get any love from like development. It was really struggling. Lacert was what we moved off of to Ultra Tax. It was struggling with some of the calculations that had to bridge like multiple years because its infrastructure only looks back like a single year. Lacert as a platform I think is just not a smart place to set up camp in 2024. Unfortunately, my heart is in Lacert more than anything else. Like it was more user friendly than ProfX, than Ultra Tax. Like Lacert was a solid tax prep app as as clean as these things can be, but unfortunately I think it's not the place to be now. The other main ones I haven't mentioned here are smaller solutions. And my fear with smaller, more simplistic solutions is the fact that I might outgrow them someday. And like changing that muscle memory is really, really hard. So I'm going to point you to either Ultra Tax Drake or into a proconnect second tax resolution. I don't have a long list of tools here, but I do know they're extremely valuable. I'm going to point you to Pitbull links in the show notes for all these and Canopy's standalone tax resolution offering. I think you can still just buy their tax resolution offering. What is the value of tax resolution? I wish I had learned this a decade earlier in my journey. Our firm never had a dedicated tax resolution tool. We had like tax research tools which would tell you about certain types of notices, but they didn't get you any closer to actually developing a response. A good tax resolution tool is this. You literally provide it with the ID of the document, like that letter, that notice type. It walks you through a questionnaire and then literally gives you templates to say here are the best ways to respond to this. And this stuff is all developed by like former IRS auditors. And it is so much better than you guessing what you think the best way to interface with that agency may be. Because these tools know like what's the type of person that's going to process this request, and what do they have the power to do and what do they not have the power to do? You can get on your high horse and ride a big old novel response as long as you like. That's not going to get you any closer to resolution. That's the value of these tools. Stop trying to guess what's going to happen when that gets there and use a dedicated platform that will just tell you this is the best way to get this resolved. It's as simple as that. I shared on Was it last Friday's Q&A? I shared that centralizing tax resolution in my tax firm was a massive unlock. Otherwise you have all these different tax pros that know a little bit about tax resolution and just have these issues trickling in from clients perpetually and they're writing letters from scratch and they're figuring everything out from scratch every single time, right? Rather than having a dedicated team for tax res. One or two people in my case, they have access to an awesome tax res tool and they spend maybe a third of their time on that. They are not an exaggeration. Four times more efficient than the tax pros that just do tax res once every couple of weeks. And the quality of the results that they will get will be much better. Cause they're just more informed. Most tax firms still do not have a tax resolution tool. Highly recommend you pick one up. This episode is sponsored in part by Team Upcoming Question when you are hiring people around the globe, how do you even time zone? When do people work? Do you work at the same time? Do they work at night while you work during the day? Gang, it's your team. You get to make the rules. But common things that people do when they're hiring folks in the Philippines, sometimes they'll just have them stick to your business hours. So they will literally work at night during your firm's hours. When I was running a firm, this is what we did. Everybody worked during our hours and it was all pretty straightforward. But increasingly what folks are doing and this is a little easier on lifestyle because like, would I like to work graveyard myself? Probably not. So is it unfair for me to ask my team to do that? Maybe. But increasingly common now is folks are looking for getting like two to three overlapping hours a day with your team. Now, increasingly this is less of a big deal because we're all sort of moving to a more asynchronous version of work where we're not always hopping on live calls and needing to take meetings and all that trending towards working from anywhere, anytime you want. But I can tell you in my firm, what I ended up with was we had, we actually had like a three hour block a day where it's like everybody needs to be on during this time each day to take care of any of those synchronous things that may need to happen. Otherwise, go wild. Work whenever you want. And that framework works really well with, with this offshore hiring approach is you pick that two to three hour window during the day when everybody's going to be available. Everybody has to be on then. Otherwise up to them. As long as they're getting their work done, I don't care. At the end of the day, you're making the rules. So if you want them working during your regular business hours, you could certainly do that. They're gonna be available all the time. You may be asking a little More of them. So maybe it's harder to find the right folks because they may not wanna work at night or bookend it at one end of the day or the other. So when they're getting on, your team's getting off or the other way around. Now, if you want some help to find some talented accountants place in first the Philippines to come work with you, check out Team up link down in the show Notes. Today's episode is sponsored in part by Live Flow, the company that helps you put a jetpack on your spreadsheets, connect any old QuickBooks file to your Excel to your Google sheets, sync data in one time, sync it in on an ongoing basis. One thing I really like is when I pull those reports in From QuickBooks to the Excel spreadsheet or Google Sheets, I can move all those individual cells all around and they will continue updating. So if you think about all of the values, all of the things that you can get with a QuickBooks report, pulling all of that into a single place and then having the power to rearrange those things however you want into a, a single view for a specific company, even a single view across a bunch of companies, like, I don't know, maybe, maybe in a single sheet. I wanted every transaction in Ask my accountant across all my QuickBooks files or something like that. You have complete flexibility to pull that stuff wherever you need it, rearrange it and it won't break. It'll continue updating. Pretty cool. So start getting crazy with your sheets with Live Flow link in the show notes. Oh, we don't have a category for this. RC Reports Total. No brainer. RC Reports Reasonable compensation reports gives you like a grounded, actual real thing to base where you set reasonable compensation at. That's another good pickup as well. All right, number three, tax advisory. Now why do I need a tax advisory app? Because most firms don't have one of these either. Two reasons. One, tax advisory or tax planning is the single most profitable service most tax firms are able to sell because tax prep is here's all my stuff, I have to file a return. And there's a huge amount of sorcery that can go into that and optimizing it and all that. But in many cases, the ship has already sailed for the things that you can do at that point, right? And so that's the value of planning before year end. Second reason why you need a dedicated app for this is your tax prep software does a horrendous job of communicating and anything besides, here's the outcome and the to dos here's all the forms as they need to be filed and here's the letter summarizing, you know, all the things you need to sign and send in and the checks you got to cut, that's all they do. And ultimately selling Tax Advisory comes down to how effectively can I communicate to my clients the value of this, how much money my plan, my planning can save them not only this year, but year over year over year, what we've saved in the last five years? This is why you need to be paying me to do this. And if you have clients who pay a lot of tax, which is most clients and tax firms, these can be big numbers. And it doesn't mean that we're going to like take half of their tax savings or something like that. It just means if you compare that communicating how much you're saving to them versus never communicating that, and they just don't understand all the complex things you did to save them tens of thousands of dollars. If they can see it and understand that, they will always be happier to pay you more than if you don't. And that's why tax advisory is a great opportunity and it's grounded in something real. Like if you are advising them on steps to actually take, you are legitimately saving them money. It's the only aspect of found money there is in tax work. And found money is always easier to charge for. So main tools in this space Corvi probably been around the longest tax plan IQ was in the AICPA startup accelerator a couple years ago. Holistaplan originally sort of a tool for financial planners, but I know some tax bros who use it. That one's a little lighter on like the calculation engine. Corvi is probably the most mature of the group. We have done some sponsorships with Corvi. I've actually got a dedicated video on it coming up. And it reminded me frankly of just how bad we are as tax bros at communicating how much money we're saving clients, because that's the one that Corby does really well, is just put on blast in a report in a way that a client can understand. Here's how much money I'm saving you. And all of the strategies that we employed, it's frankly a great, a great example of software enabling a service line delivery in a way that like just wouldn't be possible without that software. I mean there's so many things that go into tax prep and the strategies that we decide on. You would have to go out and like create some spreadsheet or big old report to outline every little nuanced decision that you do and things that you find to then go prove to that client the value of what you're doing. Man, that's just annoying. As opposed to taking a software tool that will ingest their prior year returns, we'll run the client through a quick questionnaire to gather some details about the year, but also to gather their preferences around things like do you wanna max out retirement savings? And then generate from that a collection of strategies that make sense for them. And then the advisor decide here's what we're going to move forward with. It rolls up the savings of all those strategies and it says here's the value of what we're proposing. And you can even do this like before proposing the engagement to the client to say like, here's a range that we think your estimated savings will be if you want us to proceed with this engagement. And if I could compare that to how I did tax planning and how every other tax pro that I knew in my career did tax planning, their process was email the client in December and say is there anything we need to talk about? Maybe we should do some planning around this or that. And that's it. They didn't send out a proposal to say here's what the cost of it's going to be and here's an estimated range of savings with a little report of potential strategies. It wasn't anything that mature. It was a three line email to a client, a client who has no understanding how all of this stuff works and what like possibilities there are. We just put the ball on their court and expect that they're going to opt in despite like having no expertise of when the right and wrong time would be to opt in. But it comes from a place of us being afraid to be like, you should do this, you, you need to do this. Like we're asking them to come and buy something they fundamentally don't understand. And this is where software can help them visualize the value of it for them to make it more likely that they opt in links down in the in the show notes for those three solutions. Intuit rolled out a kind of a companion app for Pro Connect that's like a tax planning solution. I don't know a single person that's using it to good effect doesn't mean it's not good. If you are using it and it's working great for you, drop a note down below. It's one of those things where I've only ever heard about it from people who are like partnered with Intuit and talking about it because Intuit wants them to talk about it. It could get there. I think the ultimate like the highest ceiling stack is QBO to Pro connect to the Intuit planning tool. Like that has the biggest opportunity. And the sad thing is, if you look at the ecosystem and all the vendors and all the people that could make tech here, boy, who's going to get us out of this situation that we're in? It's going to be none of the people that have the incumbent platforms. And it's not going to be Thompson, Reuters, it's not going to be cch, it's not going to be any of these knuckleheads. Unfortunately, we're in the really bummer position of into it being the best horse to bet on. In a. In a cruel twist of fate, I will say I know several groups that are working on a tax prep engine platform from scratch. The hope is that AI reduced the cost and the complexity to build a new prep platform for from scratch. They're still years away from having something that people can use. Not the first time somebody's tried to build this right? So like we'll see if it actually pans out, but boy, it can't come soon enough. Last category here, Tax workflow, frankly I think is the most interesting and it's the space where things are changing the fastest. When I say tax workflow, I'm talking everything that happens up to the time where it goes into the tax software for calculations and generating forms and all that. So a rundown of tools. First Safe Send Safe Send originally was the solution for delivery once the tax return is completed. And it still does this really well, gathering all the required signatures with KBA based E cigs, vouchers for clients if they need to make payments, even for estimated payments and reminders for those. But it's increasingly being been getting into workflow, the actual doing of the return and the gathering of information. Cool thing that they've done for a while now is you could check any PDF organizer into there just from your tax software and it will make it fillable, which it's still the organizer out of your tax software. So it still sucks, but at least now it's fillable. They just launched like an AI gathering thing that I don't quite have my head around how it works but I suspect they're following on some of the other newer companies that are using AI to like extract information from the docs client submit in a more intelligent way. We're going to talk about a Few of those tools in a minute but good that Safe Send actually like made a big announcement in this last couple weeks. I wish the press release was better because I couldn't get my head around what they were actually announcing besides some AI thing. But you compare that to like what you see from the tax softwares where nobody's announcing anything like at least that's progress. Other companies in the space. Grunt Works has long been a company that does like the ingestion of client info. I have a big old stacks of stack of tax documents and I chuck it in the thing machine goes burr and I get like a, like a bookmarked PDF or maybe a work paper out of it with some amounts extracted. SurePrep I think if you're looking for a platform to handle the documents and the extraction and all of that, most people would tell you SurePrep is the place to do that for 1040 workflows. That handles the extraction off the documents. But also like I think it's SP binder is a replacement for like a PDF to manage all of those work papers. So the referencing and all that stuff, it all happens in that platform. Couple interesting things they've done is also made it super easy to outsource the data extraction to either domestic or offshore people who will like take the numbers off of those off of those forms and double check them for you. It was just like an added service that you paid extra for. You didn't have to interface with the people or anything like that. I think those days are probably coming to an end now with AI vision models and what they are enabling. We'll get to that in a minute. The legacy tax prep providers, they had versions of this like Autoflow and PFX Scan, stuff like that. They're basically just OCR based extraction tools. Those have not changed in 10 or 15 years. Now frankly I'm not interested in those at all because AI vision models are vastly superior to ocr. I don't see these companies being the ones innovating fast enough to create interesting stuff there. Today's episode is sponsored in part by Cloud Accountant staffing. And I got another resume for you to look at here gang. I got a live one. This is an actual resume the cloud accountant staffing got for an accounting firm they were working with. How's this sound? Especially for you tax firms out there. Graduated with a bachelor's in accounting in 2017, spent two years in audit before going to tax. Good for them. So you know they got a good head on their shoulders. Spent their next two years with a Western firm just doing tax work. Two years after that with a top 100 firm whose name if I uttered here, you would recognize there they were a senior tax associate also in charge of training junior tax associates. All sorts of accolades here around like culture awards they've won. Sounds like a real addition to the vibe to the vibes of your firm. Good vibe manager experience in the CCH access suite and everything else associated with business. Tax prep gang. Super talented folks out there just looking for a happy home and that happy home could be yours. People like to talk about like trying to hire big four talent and that sort of thing in the US and just how hard that is. Do you know how many big four and top 100 employees there are all around the world in the Philippines, the massive offices they have set up in the Philippines, those people just like stateside where they're like, man, I don't want to go work for this giant machine. Those people are looking for cool, small, progressive firms in the Philippines just like they are in the U.S. incredibly talented people. And cloud accountant staffing. They're going to help you track them down. Looking to build your team of accountants in the Philippines? Check out the link to cloud accountant staffing in the show notes. Today's episode is sponsored in part by Clienta. When it comes to choosing a pm, it comes down to the four C's capabilities, client experience, clarity and community. I already told you about capabilities and client experience. Today we are talking clarity. How approachable is that system? I tell you what, as these systems have matured, they have turned into monsters. Frankly, some of them, when you look at them now is like, it's just a lot. And there's a certain element of Vibes to software. Like, you see a software and you're like, yeah, that's me. I can get into that. Like, when I first saw Notion, I was like, this is my vibe. There's other people when they see Notion, they're like, I hate this client hub, man. It's the whole vibe. It's got a vibe. It's pretty clean now. There's usually a linear relationship between our first C capabilities and another C. You don't want complexity. The holy grail is a platform with clarity. Lots of powerful features, but not complicated client Hub. It has the magic of of clarity. Makes everything simple for a firm owner and their team and their clients. Clear layout, powerful features, yet simple to use. Makes it easier to onboard new team members. Spend less time supporting your team's questions. You don't have to run tech support for your clients because they can't figure out what the H is going on. Oh, that's the worst. That is clarity as delivered by Client Hub. Spend more time delivering value, not trying to figure out how your PM works. Okay, Learn more about Client Hub. Check out the link down in the show notes. The only other workflow tool besides this sort of new crop we're going to talk about is tax caddy, which has always been an interesting one. Basically it's a way to for the client to submit all the information that the accountant needs year over year. But rather than it being a solution like for firms, Tax caddy has always been framed as something that the client owns personally. Like they definitely have a firm channel where firms can buy it, but they also have a direct channel where it's just for taxpayers to come up and use this to organize all their tax documents. And if they go to a different accountant, they still have their tax caddy account and that goes with them. And that's kind of turned off some accountants because they want to control that whole workflow and all it really does is round up the information. It doesn't necessarily take it to the next step of their process. It's just for gathering info. It's all right. Like it works pretty well. I work with a CPA firm to do my tax stuff because I'm not going to do it myself and they use tax caddy and it's fine. It feels maybe a little bit dated at this point, but it's a reasonable way of gathering that information. What I don't know is with this new set of tools built around AI vision models, whether your tax caddies and stuff like that actually start looking pretty old timey pretty fast. So a group of more modern solutions which is kind of like the post OCR era for tax workflow. Again, we've talked about this quite a bit. The the biggest AI change in the accounting space happening right now and set to change things the most over the next 12 months is the ability of AI vision models to pull information off of documents way better than OCR ever could. And then they use language models to add in a bit of reasoning to be able to make decisions of what to do with that information. So you take a 1098, that old chestnut could be for the schedule E could be for an STR on the schedule, C, could be for the primary residence schedule A, could be for a vacation home asking OCR to figure all that out or hard coding the solution really hard getting a language model to suss all that out it does that stuff really really well. So we can just the extraction is better than ever before but how it then takes it to the proper destination is now much better than ever before. And I've I have teased on social media that I I've seen some some pre release things that have me convinced that pretty much all of your tax workflow process for 1040 prep will change before next tax season. I still think that's the case unless you were on maybe a couple providers already who are early early to the game here. So calling out a few of these companies building interesting stuff around tax workflows again if I'm missing anybody and this any time I start talking companies I get terrified that I'm going to miss somebody Obvious companies doing interesting stuff here. Sorban S O R A B A N they were arguably the first of this wave of new tax workflow tools. Basically what they'll get you is a super modern looking client portal for clients to go through and answer some questions. But they will also take the documents submitted from clients and just any sort of unstructured format and resolve the items that you need to gather based on what's uploaded. Super super cool. So it can ingest like a prior organizer and decide here's all the things that you need from this client. The client can just chuck a bunch of files into an upload and Sorban will try to resolve those outstanding items according to what has been uploaded along with doing like questionnaires, stuff like that. Really, really interesting and much easier frankly than the client having to walk through a humongous process. If you think of a service like TurboTax where they go through like 100 question sort of questionnaire. Imagine instead you start with the documents, eliminate a bunch of the stuff from the questionnaire and only ask about what's left. Like that's kind of where Sorbance headed and it's really interesting. I love it. Stanford Tax doing something similar. They've sponsored some content. We did a demo day showing off how you could like upload a backup file and it would build out the document request list of like what are all the things that we need from the client similar to what Sorban's doing like resolving those items with the documents that are uploaded. Super cool stuff happening here and more that will be out and live before the end of the year with with all of these companies. Other really interesting one here is True Prep who also we did a sponsored demo day video on the YouTube channel with I'll just tell you like I think Every single tax workflow, like new age of tax workflow company. Here are sponsors on my channel because I am so passionate about. We need to get what you're doing in front of a bunch of people. I assure you I will be an amazing partner for you because folks are so hungry for better tech here. True Prep, you may have seen that one. It was, it's like the framing of that video was like chatgpt for tax pros where it has all of the tax returns and I can ask it show me everyone that had over a thousand dollars in tax penalties last year and it gives me a list and I can go like reach out to those people for doing tax planning or show me everyone that had schedule C income, net income over 50 grand or SC income over some threshold. Like if you think about what data mining was like those utilities to look across all of your tax returns, it's that but just semantic and immediate. Super, super, super cool. Show me everyone that filed in North Dakota. Like so much more helpful. And all of these companies are using like fundamentally different tech to build this stuff. AI vision models, large language models as opposed to the previous crop of companies where they're just, they're big. There is no innovation there. I frankly don't expect a thing from them. I love sure Prep, but what did we all think when Thompson Reuters acquired them? Sad to say, frankly, if I'm, if I'm plugging some tech into my, into my accounting firm, it is a bet on, on the future and where that company is going to take me. We've got a crop of company companies building tax workflow solutions just around new AI tech. It is a very different way of building tech, not unlike going from desktop to cloud. When we saw desktop companies starting to try to build cloud software and we're like, yikes. Like, this sucks. As opposed to the SaaS first companies where they were just building cloud apps and you're like, wow, this is something different. It is better. This new like AI infrastructure for software. Like that's kind of how I see it is you have a new crop of, of companies that are versed in the entire stack of what goes into building software around AI. And gang, we've got some really smart people working on it. It's exciting. You'll see these companies at a lot of the conferences. They were all at Engage. You'll see them out in the wild, go have conversations with them. It's the first time in a really long time that we've had exciting new stuff happening in tax and man, I'm So here for it. It doesn't solve the major problem of the prep platforms just being abysmal, but at the end of the day, how much of the process is. Is putting it into the tax software versus everything else. Putting it into the tax software is like arguably the last mile. And on very simple projects like a basic 1040. Yeah, that's, that's a big part of it. But for the projects, we can actually make money on putting it into the tax software. That's not how we're making our money. We're making our money on everything else. Right. And so these workflow tools are more about the everything else. So super pumped to see how those things develop. Huge number of links down in the show notes. Check those out. Support the companies. I mean, this is a big thing too. Support the companies who are investing in us, like investing in new progressive tax workflow solutions. When you decide to work with them, your feedback, your money, everything about you partnering with them supports that. And some of these companies, I remember when Sorban was first starting out very, very early days, like of the first 10 customers, like I knew some of the firms that were working with them in the very beginning. And when you see a tool that early on, you're like, oh, can I put this in front of my clients? Is it ready yet? But like, that stuff has to happen to get to what we see later on that are the very mature solutions that everybody uses, right? So if you're not using any of these yet, like hit pause, go check them out, at least have some conversations with them, start learning about them. They're frankly very good today, but they're the future of like, how we get all of our work done. And in 36 months time, like what these things will be doing as a models continue to get exponentially better. What they will be doing will be leaps and bounds ahead of what we have had of like the things I've seen in the tax profession in the last 15 years, like light years ahead of that stuff. Super excited for that. Anybody we missed, anything you disagree with, drop a comment down below. If this is your first time coming and hanging out, maybe your tax firm that just stumbled into this video. We talk shop on this channel every day about running small firms. This is my podcast channel. I've got a different YouTube channel that's like once a week, bigger, more traditional YouTube videos, like higher production value and all that. But this is, I mean, this is where we get into the fun stuff, right? Like the nitty gritty, the nuance, the inside baseball of running wee bitty accounting firms because, frankly, it's a great time to run a small firm. Man, we are so in demand. If we can get out of our own ways and set up boundaries like, it's a pretty rad way of running your own little small business. So thanks for coming and hanging today. I'll see you in the next one. Sa.