387 The Argument To Deliver Client Work With a VIDEO

Okay. On the pod today, the one and only Derek Foot. Super smart solo firm runner and was.

Sharing recently changes he made to his.

Delivery process where he started using video and like, instead of stuff that he otherwise would have delivered via live meeting and like career tax guy. Like, like I was and I don't.

Know, didn't struck me as the dude that would be like, yeah, I'm excited about video. So I thought it'd be fun to have him on, talk about how he's done that, if there's anything he would change to that process.

Are there any trade offs to leaning into video more? Because it ultimately probably replaces some live meetings. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

So Derek got on the horn with me. We had a chat through that.

I think you're really going to like this, maybe even doubly so if you are either a solo firm runner or thinking about exploring something like that.

Either way, dug into some cool video.

Workflow stuff here I think you'll enjoy. Okay.

If you haven't had the pleasure of.

Meeting Mr. Derek Foote in the wild yet, you want to give us the like the 30 second intro?

Sure. So I kind of did the traditional four years of college, straight into public accounting thing. Bounced around through a few different accounting firms for about 14 years or so before deciding to go off and do my own thing. And I've been doing that for a little over two years now.

And you are very happily solo guy through and through. Like actually very often when I'm doing this podcast and I'm thinking of like, who are the different avatars of people listening? Like when I think solo tax guy, I think Derek, like you're still. That's still the only way to do it as far as you're concerned, right? Like for you.

Yes. Yeah.

The.

I think about every once in a while like adding a team or who would it look like or what would they do? And it's a mix of, you know, not having enough maybe to keep someone busy, also not wanting to like hustle to try and make it enough. So just being solo and having all that flexibility is, is pretty comfortable and where I like to be right now.

At least, like whatever your version of constraints look like. There is like definitely peace to be found in constraints, whatever they are. But we're not talking about that today. We're talking about video. Um, because you like myself, fancy yourself just a star in front of a camera. No, I've shared this a couple of places, but basically you just shared kind of your experience of year over Year you just transitioned to like doing video deliveries with all your tax returns. And there are some interesting statistics come out of that. But I'm curious, like rewinding way back, ultimately like what it looked like, at least externally, was pretty much as a rule, every single return you delivered this year you delivered over video. And I'm curious how you got there. Like what led you to that fundamental process change.

Yeah, so the last firm I was at had shifted away from like the intake meetings or sit down meetings to doing like a wrap up or a deliverable at the end. That was their big move that they made. So the policy was every single tax return, once you're done, you're, you're calling the client and kind of having that wrap up conversation. So that's what I sort of started with. When I went out on my own. I basically just replicated the old process that I'd worked under. And then, you know, just from your content and other content and talking to other professionals, you kind of got cued into the idea of doing videos or other wrap ups that are less time consuming and allows you to just deliver something that's a little bit more personable, a little bit more accessible. And so that's what led me to the switch, was trying to get away from that big time constraint of it. And then I'm a small practice, you know, I have like a lot of my clients are long standing relationships because they followed me when I went out on my own. And so I was a little, not too afraid to just kind of say, here's how it's going to be now. And then the, the kind of, the big like trying to make it so I wasn't taking something away from them, was making sure they still had that opportunity to schedule a wrap up. So it was like, here, here's the video. This is what you get first. If you still want to meet with me, we can. But I put, put the video in front of everyone kind of as a first step.

Okay, let's circle back to the video thing and, but just to talk about the, the workflow and the service design aspect of it, I too, my last firm, like the norm was there needs to be high touch delivery, but it's just happening at like the worst possible time. Like the last thing in the world you want to do when it's done is then sit around and talk admin about go pay this and that. Right.

That and you playing phone tag where it was a thing. There was, you know, at the last firm there were days to be like, okay, All I'm doing is making calls because I've got 10 to 20 projects that are all ready to go. I'm going to run through the list and call them, maybe get some of them, leave messages, they're going to call back. I just take a whole day of just trying to do those wrap ups.

So did you make any sort of changes to what happens at the start of it? Like was there a trade off of like, okay, I'm going to do this but maybe the front end will be more hands on or do you even connect those two things?

I didn't know. I. The way I've kind of pitched and set up the whole process is trying to tell clients there's a lot of systems in place and there's a lot of automation in place place. But what that does is it leaves me accessible for all the other hands on stuff. So the follow up during prep, if there's open items or questions or you know, maybe we're kind of putting pause while we talk about retirement options or something like that. And then I just changed that backend delivery process at the end of it to have the, the video on it. But I really, I didn't think about the process before that, you know, and mostly just thought about wanting to make sure the client still felt like they were getting a good service out of the whole thing.

For context, do you meet with these folks before tax season? Much of them like, are you doing planning before the end of the year? Is it mainly just a tax season thing?

So it depends on the client. You know, I make kind of the advisory side and any sort of planning optional. And so kind of my core clients, yes, like I'm wrapping up year end planning now or you maybe touch base mid year. But for a good chunk of them it's just the compliance piece in tax season and maybe touching base throughout the year if things come up.

And none of that. Does any of that change your intake or delivery methodology or is it the same regardless?

Uh, it's pretty much the same no matter what. Um, I work primarily with like independent bookkeepers and so a lot of it is coordinating and handing off from them and then that kind of gets the process rolling and making sure that the client just kind of gets to be hands off and feels like they're taken care of.

So video to get into that. I think a lot of folks are kind of just allergic to having to look at themselves and hear themselves. Like it's a very, it's almost like this primal resistance to doing that even if they can Acknowledge, like, maybe this would save me time. Did you like, grapple with that? Like, did you have to work through that at all?

Yeah, a little bit. So the worst part's definitely like having to listen to yourself on repeat. If you're trying to figure out exactly where to like cut a video or edit a video or something like that, you get over it pretty quick. I think like, once something's just happened enough times, you can just kind of, you start to move past it. The other thing that I think is I just stopped caring quite as much. Yes, it was, it's you. Early on it was like, oh, no, I said this thing wrong or I stumbled over my words or something happened and so I would like stop it and start over, or like pause and start over and then you have to go fix all that. And now it's, you know, if I have a little bit of a stumble or I say something wrong, I just kind of like smile and laugh and I keep going. And if it's not that egregious, I just leave it in there. And I figured, like, worst case, they're going to see that I'm human and they're going to like, get a little bit of like, oh, look, he's a normal person and not this super polished thing. And for most of my clients, that's probably okay. You know, they're not going to be like, oh my gosh, he misspoke a little bit and you know that's going to tank my review or something like that.

A total tangent. I saw this week somebody was kind of flexing like, oh, we're doing delivery now at this crazy scale by generating like AI avatars of ourselves doing these deliveries. So with the notion that like right now we could make Derek Bot, and it looks somewhat convincing, but I think most people are still going to be able to tell.

Like, could you ever imagine yourself delivering with something like that?

What's your reaction to that?

My first, like, is it going to really save me time? Because like, I, you know, I open the PDFs of the tax return or the two year comparison and then record the video. And once you've done it enough, that takes you like three to five minutes versus, like, if you're setting up like building the avatars, whatever time that takes. But then how does it do the content? Like, I'm going to write a script for it or like, tell it what, you're going to spend as much time pulling that together as you are, like just hopping on and doing it.

I would think I bought a house this year. And they sent me like a customized, like celebration video, but it didn't have any people in it. It was literally just like an animation in these graphics that like, was like Jason, but like the rest of it was boilerplate. And I was like, this is this. I just wasted 90 seconds of my life. That's interesting though. To your point, though, it would have to. It almost have to like do the generating of the script, which is a whole other challenge of would it actually do this the way that I would.

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On the YouTube channel.

Learn more about Live Flow. Check out the link down in the show notes. This episode is sponsored in part by TeamUp, who helps you hire talented Filipino accountants directly from. Let me just run you through what they did in the last week. I think you'll be impressed. Just kicked off two new recruiterments looking for a senior tax accountant and a staff level accountant, both for firms who are returning to team up for more hires. Mohires Active projects they've got in the works, man. I got access to the mainframe here.

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Okay, so tools. What do you, what. What do you actually use for recording these?

So I use Loom to do all the, the recording and embedding of the videos for, for clients. I have a webcam and a mic. I probably really couldn't even tell you the specifics of them. They're just the ones I did a little research and picked up or got at the time and, and they get the job done.

So do you do any editing on them, like as a rule, like, will you make cuts? Because Loom actually has kind of a cool little built in, simple editor.

Yeah. So I will like just inside Loom if I need to, you know. So if I, if I really screw something up and I need to edit it or like just a chunk needs to come out or anything like that, then I'll do it if it's, you know, kind of egregious enough, I guess. But the thing I haven't done and where I maybe get tripped up sometimes is I'll forget to mention something that I want to bring up to the client and then kind of the next thing I probably need to look at is can I go record another video and then like drop that into it? Like, I haven't, haven't gone that far to, to figure something like that out.

Do you know if Loom does that?

I don't know.

That would be super.

So far it hasn't been bad. I usually just either re. Re record the video and remember the second time, or if it's something pretty small, you. I send a message that's got the video embedded with it and I'll just add it to that message.

For folks who are still very, very early days with video, which is most people and still just kind of spooked at the notion of having to look at themselves or the sweat of like staring down the barrel and actually doing it. Like, if you could go back in time and like give yourself a tip or two, like, what would you tell early, early video Derek.

So I think, like, repetition's a big part of it, right? Just doing it, you know. And, you know, a lot of the early ones, I started over a lot. Like, I'd start and stop and I'd start and I'd, like, stop the video and delete it and then start over and all that. And, you know, that can be fine. It just takes. It's just time consuming. So I think a lot of it is the repetition of it. The other part, just kind of refocusing where your attention's going, you know, because you can kind of put your attention on, you know, how do I look on camera today? Or you can put your attention on, hey, these people are looking to me for my expertise and my feedback. You know, I'm. I'm a little bubble in the bottom of the screen. They're really looking at the screen share that I have up and what's the value that I'm providing them in that piece of it. So trying to. I guess for me, it's just a lot of, like, just trying to shift what's important in the video and make sure that it's like, hey, this is. That's what they really value. And anything beyond that's just even more valuable to them than you're just getting a PDF or what have you.

That nugget applies to so many things, I feel like, where it's like, maybe vanity is not the right word, but it's like, people care less than you think they do. And they're like, what can I extract from this? Like, ultimately, that's what I care about.

Right.

And the other, the other piece of it is like, you have a right to more confidence than you think you do. I think for most tax professionals, like, you're. You're the expert. You know what you're doing, you know what you're talking about. However you want to frame that as in terms of, like, I'm the expert, so I know what I'm saying, or I'm the authority, so I know what I'm saying. But, like, you have more going into that than you think you have, just because there's a little bit of uncertainty or lack of confidence from the video. Like, you have every other, like, right to just own it and be. And be confident in that fact with the content that's going into it.

That was a great quote. Yeah, that. What was that? You have the. You have the right to say it again.

You're gonna have to go back and look at the recording because it was.

So smooth that I'm like oh man, this must be a thing that I'm just not aware of.

Right, right. Maybe like you, like you have the right to more confidence than you think you do.

I think that's what it was. Yeah. Get the cross stitch out. Okay. The, I think the, the biggest counter argument here that you'll hear and oh, let's, let's set this up. I guess we didn't even share the statistic that you had shared online. So walk us, walk us through that. You kind of measured how did this impact the volume of follow up meetings year over year? With video, without video.

Yeah. So I kept track of or kind of went back and did some of the data on the volume of clients that did wrap up meetings or wrap up calls versus like the clients who'd watched the Loom and it improved a little bit. I mean I think we had a little bit more of watching the looms than would schedule the wrap ups. The wrap update I think got a little bit skewed in tax season. I think it's more, it was heavier. Like a lot of people would do a wrap up or I'd make us do a wrap up because we needed to touch on stuff. But then by the time I hit everyone who was on extension, like those types of clients who are on extension, they none of them need a wrap up conversation as far as they're concerned because it's just a compliance that you're hoping they decide to get done before September or October. So that's where I think it really dropped off a lot. So it was right about, I think like 60, 65% would schedule wrap up meetings when I did that for everyone and like I said higher in tax season. But then when I did looms, like 70% or so of all the looms were watched, you know, and some of them don't get watched at all. And you can kind of, you kind of guess going into it who's going to watch it versus not. They're the same ones who really didn't want our conversation either.

So 70% of people watched looms, but what was the drop in follow up meetings?

Yeah, so like 65% or so I think did follow up meetings in the year before.

And what percent did it in the loom year?

Like 9 or 10%. Yeah, so. So yeah, I offered, so I offered the, like we can still have a conversation.

Yeah.

And pretty much no one took me up on it, you know, and the ones who did take me up on it just need a little bit more walkthrough of you know what the steps that they needed to take are. They had some follow up questions.

What was the spectrum of reactions from clients to the video itself? Like, do they acknowledge the fact that you're making a video or was it just like good info? Thanks.

So most people don't acknowledge it at all, which I think is something that is one of your early videos. I think you had said, like people are either going to love it or they're not going to care. That's what made it seem like a safe bet, like, well, you're not going to like upset anyone. Your worst case. So a lot of most people don't give any feedback and then you get a handful of like, oh, this is great, thank you so much. Or that made it really clear the way, like if I'm onboarding a new client, the way I tell them now, as I say, like, you know, the intent of it is you can sit down and have feedback from me at 9 o' clock at night if that's when you want to work on your tax return. I not available for 9 o' clock at night meetings and generally the reception to like that sort of spin on it is that I'm giving you an additional resource. Seems well received. You know, at least in those meetings and how people react.

I think we can sometimes see somebody else doing something and be like, well that, that would never work for. That would never work for the way that my clients work. And that is like what you're describing is more of kind of the cooler in vogue, sort of asynchronous work. Like do you have, are your clients cool, like hipster clients that work that way or are they more traditional?

Right. So the, I don't know if I call them cool hipster clients, but they are, you know, towards that younger and more tech savvy generation. And when I left the firm, I was at, you know, I intentionally, like I went all virtual when I left, you know. So from the beginning it was always, hey, everything's mostly going to be asynchronous. Everything's delivered electronically, you know. And I had a few people follow me and I had the conversations with them who were less tech savvy, used to coming into the office and sitting down or picking up their tax returns, you know, and just saying like, I'm not going to work that way and we can try it if you want to try it or, you know, you just need to stick with, you know, a more traditional firm.

I think you mentioned it takes you all of five minutes to do that video. How Long is the video itself usually?

Yeah, so it depends on how much I have to walk through. But most of them are probably like three to five minutes for, for like a tax return wrap up and feedback video.

And are you covering like the to DOS there or are you more like going through the tax return summary, like helping them understand what they see?

Yeah, so I do kind of both. So I get a two year comparison out of the tax software. So I don't show them the actual tax return because none of them are going to follow what's going on in that. But I walk through the two year comparison and just explain the outcome of the tax return and you know, and why it came out that way and if there's any feedback to follow up on you. Maybe it was different from planning or it was like our planning. You are calling out different things, whatever it may be that's relevant to them. But I do all that looking at the two year comparison and I just kind of use that as my outline of you know, we need to talk, explain any differences or things there. And then my tax software, one of the things it does that I actually like is it does a separate PDF with all of the to DOS, you know, all of the. The 8879 and the payment vouchers and anything that has to be paper filed. And so then I walk through document as well. So I kind of do. I do the two year comparison and then switch over to the to do document and then walk through that so they know what needs to be done.

Is that Drake?

No, it's ultra tax.

Ultra tax.

Hang on, are you talking about like the transmittal letter?

No.

So ultra tax, you can set it up so it prints an action required PDF which then has all the payment vouchers and 8879 and stuff in it.

Okay. I wasted a lot of time putting transmitter letters in front of people.

Yeah, it's not a transmittal letter you get. So the way I have it set up is it's like there's a page with the federal filing instructions and then the 8879 and then a page with the federal estimate instructions and then the estimate vouchers. So you basically have a series of instruction pages to point them out.

I remember the all caps Actions required PDF name. That's. I. Maybe I'm just forgetting things, I don't know. And you use tax domes, so presumably taxdomes, like tracking them down for 8879 or invoicing or something like that.

Yeah. So I they, they get a message from me in Tax Dome that has the embedded video in it and then I upload all the documents at the same time. You know, the client copy the action required, send the signature request, all of that.

That. Yeah, that's another question. Everybody brings up a security. So you're embedding the loom video inside of their taxdome portal.

Right, And I also password protect the loom video just as some additional security. So they, they're not getting emailed a link. You know, I said a Tax Dome can be set up so that if you send someone a message they get in the email will have the message in it, but you can turn that off. So there's no link in their email. They have to be able to log into their account to, to access it. And then you know, when I'm doing the, the view the video, just making sure there's no like private information in there.

Oh, so you even like it's a redacted copy of the return or something like that.

I mean it's, it's pretty easy to do, you know. So in the client copies you can make it redact Social Security numbers, you know, so that like that two year comparison has and social at the top of it, but the social is already redacted and then the filing instruction pages generally don't have it in there.

This episode is sponsored in part by True Prep. True Prep is like a cool, almost like a chat GPT like experience for tax firms that lets you query your actual client tax data to be like, I don't know, we're gonna do some tax planning. Show me, show me every 1040 that had over 5000 in tax penalties last year. Like you can literally do that returns the whole list. It'll even let you drill into the detail. Does some other cool stuff now too. Like basic tax research. Like they've built IRS publications some background information into the platform. Client asks a quick question, you want.

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True Prep's even getting into stuff like that. It's the closest thing to like an open ended chat resource for your tax firm. Very cool. Worth checking out. Learn more about True Prep at the link down in the show notes. This episode is sponsored in part by Cloud accountant staffing who will help you find wicked smart accountants in the Philippines? As you know, this is what I did in my firm. My last four hires were Filipino accountants.

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Okay, so the, I think the most common counter argument is I like when I see what you shared and I see the, you know, percentage of people that schedule a follow up fall like you know, 50 to 60%, I'm like score time savings. The counter argument is like, what do you mean? Those are like the most valuable meetings with the client. I want them to want to have that meeting with me. That's probably the, that's probably the juiciest counter argument. What would you, what would you say to that?

So I think some of it depends on the client relationship. Like some of these are just compliance relationships, right. And so there's really no follow up. You, there's not kind of an ongoing relationship and for me I'm okay with that. Like that's part of the being solo and lots of flexibility and really working part time a good chunk of the year as there's some clients that are just compliance work and then the, the clients, you know the other one, you know, the ones that you have like ongoing relationships with, like I have a separate process and a separate system where I'm checking in with those clients, you know where I'm saying, you know how is it going this year? Maybe we should touch in on something or you know, doing that, that reach out and that, you know, managing that is really kind of separate from just the, the deliverable of a tax return or the deliverable of your, whatever it might be that you're presenting at the end.

Yeah. Tax season only clients are hard enough as it is. But if you're only ever having advisory conversations when you're delivering the tax return and you're like, there's a million other things I would rather be doing right now, that's really hard.

Right. And you're in a big, you're a big believer in trying to get clients to be more proactive, you know, so by the time we're working on a tax return, there's pretty limited on what we can be doing. Right. And you want to start being, you know, that's where the relationship and all the value really is and trying to get clients to be proactive. Like we should be checking in during the year. We should be planning ahead. Like, you know, stop surprising me when we're working on a tax return and start like trying to figure stuff out in advance.

Yeah. Those follow up calls are usually explain the to do list to me or I don't like the outcome. This is my experience.

Right? Yeah. And if it's, I don't like the outcome, then it's, you can't say, all right, well here's what we're going to change. It's, you know, it's tax return, you're kind of stuck. So then you're just saying, well, let's start doing proactive planning next year. And if they're, they're interested in that and they want to do that, then I put them into, you know, my, my planning pipeline. Basically, you know, a separate process that tells me to reach out during the year.

So headed into next year, video wise or intake or delivery wise, is there anything you're thinking you're going to change to that approach?

Not for the video delivery. That'll all stay the same. You know, that worked out pretty well and did well. So I think that'll be, you know, no changes there. I didn't have any bad feedback about it, so should be fine. I am changing my intake process a little bit. So I had again, coming out of traditional firms, just did the like drop off deadline thing where was, get me all your information by March 15, if you want it done by April 15. Which means I had like one or two weeks of just panicky mid March where the work's Flowing in faster than it's flowing out and you feel like you're never going to get out from underneath it. So this tax season I'm trying to do something kind of in the middle of different ideas and do a capacity queue. So it's, it's not a drop off deadline. It's not like pre scheduling the work. It's basically I have X number of slots for tax season. You know, every tax return is a slot, first come, first serve. And once that's full or once we just get far enough in, the tax season has cutoff deadline, then I won't take any more work. So the idea is your clients will submit their information. I'll take a look at it and let them know, okay, you got a spot in the queue. Or here's what I still need from you to order to get a spot. Because the thing that really like stressed me out and I didn't like last tax season is I would start working on something in February and then be like, hey, I still need this one document or these handful of things and I would get that in August and say why did I, why, why did I, why did I stress myself out having that sitting on my to do list and doing that work in February? So trying to get away from that and just have a little bit of a different management system but again trying to maintain that client service side of it too.

So you say presumably doing all that checking up front and we all probably worked for that partner who was like jostling for the resources and they wanted the staff to work on their projects who would say, well that document might come in on April 14th and then.

We can just ship it out the door and like just add that one document at the last minute. Right.

Like that's the argument for, for still doing it. But are you saying if we don't have 100% of information, then we do 0% of it?

Yeah, more or less. I mean there's always going to be something that you know, because I'm going to check these really quickly. Right. So if I, as I'm prepping it, maybe I'm missing a thing or two, but I've already started prepping it. But if it's, you know, if it's something I know I need up front and I don't have, you know, maybe it's income apportionment, then I'm going to, you know, kick it back to them and say, hey, I need this before I'm going to get started. You and yeah, is there some that okay, maybe it comes in on April 14th. And we get that last piece. Sure. I don't get those done anyway. You know, personally, like, April, you know, April 1 through April 15, all I should really be doing is, like, collecting 8879s and some extension calculation. So it's trying. I mean, I believe a lot in trying to teach clients good habits and to teach them to be, like, diligent and proactive. And there's no reason that these things should be delayed this long. And so I'm like, I am not going to take on the work to kind of enable someone else's procrastination or delay.

There's so many people listening to this right now who are in that firm that's like, oh, yeah, no, our cutoff is March 15th. And then somebody brings you something on the 8th of April, and the partner's like, well, we got time, right? I think, like, I think we could get it out. And it's the same person that brought it in in the 8th last year, right?

Yeah. All you. All you do is you're just teaching them the same bad habits to repeat in. In the future. Right? Like, if. If you didn't like it and it stressed you out and it made your deadline worse, but you did it. All you did was tell them that, okay, you can do that again next year. Like, you just don't set yourself up for success.

I think you are. You are a great story in my mind of, like, what you can do with just. Just doing your own thing. Like, there's so much people kind of idolize, you know, running something big and. And just growth for growth's sake without ever actually stopping to be like, yeah, but why, like, do I have enough right now? And is that going to unlock something for me that I really, really need? What are your. And you've seen me, like, even me, you know, we did the. An episode on, like, kind of a guide for if you want to run a solo firm. What do you think folks need to hear about running a solo practice where maybe they're considering it? And, like, what are. What are maybe some of the things that people don't talk enough about for that type of firm?

Well, that's putting me on the spot. It's like, what do they need to know about? Like, that makes it seem less scary? Is that what you're thinking?

You have something right now that so many people listening to this podcast want where it's like, you'd. You had the courage to, like, go out and do it to begin with, but you've also iterated year over year to have a pretty cool calm, like, like somewhat seasonal thing.

But you also look out there and.

You see so many people that are working so, so hard doing their own thing and not getting there, and you did something different. So, like, what. I don't know, what do you.

What do you maybe see folks getting.

Wrong most or maybe something you're afraid of that you later realized I didn't.

Need to be concerned about.

Like, I mean, it's hard to answer because I think I was. I just. There was a fair amount of luck and good fortune in going out on my own, you know, like, I've been doing this for 14 years. So when I walked out on my own, you know, a lot of the challenge people who are just getting started is about, like, building a referral network and making those connections. And I basically walked out with those, you know. You know, I had bookkeepers that I worked with or financial advisors or attorneys. So I think it was easier for me in that respect. And so for someone who's, you know, maybe having a harder time of it is. It's. You're going to have to kind of do that hustle to build that network, you know, of other CPAs who aren't taking work or maybe slowing down or financial advisors or really the local business community has been the best one for me. You know, you have one attorney that happens to work with a client of mine, and now it's an ongoing referral relationship between that attorney and I. You know, and how do you make those connections is by you participating potentially in local stuff. Like, if you aren't going to be. So I think that's kind of maybe where I would look at is if you're not going to be industry specific, like, if you're not beekeepers, if you are not going to all the Beekeeper conferences and posting in all the Beekeeper Facebook pages, then looking locally is probably your next best bet, right? You know, local business communities or things like that, because that's where you're going to have a lot of, hey, I know this guy. You know, let me refer you to him. Is going to come from. From things like that.

And you didn't necessarily wait until you were on your own to be developing those relationships. I could see maybe a concern of. Of somebody saying, like, well, I don't feel like I can start doing that until I'm on my own. But you navigated that one way or another, right?

Yeah, because before I was on my. I was. I was managing kind of my own Book of clients and my own book of business within a firm, you know, and prior to that, I'd been some sort of like tax manager for a number of years at firms, you know, so I was already the you. The primary point of contact for your clients and their attorneys and their financial advisors and their bookkeepers and all of that. So if you like, I just kind of came into that naturally. And if you don't have that, then you have to work on building that up, you know, somehow to, to make those, those connections and relationships.

Thanks for doing this, Derek. Somebody wants to pick your brain or ask you a question about, you know, the kind of your transition into video stuff or even just running a solo firm. Is there a place where they ought to go hang out or get in touch with you? Where would you send them?

So I'm in all the usual places. LinkedIn, Blue Sky, Twitter, all of that. But I primarily hang out on the Tax Pros Discord server. So if people wanted to chat or get a lot of good feedback from me or other people, there's. There's a good community there to, to hang out with.

That's a pretty good sized community now, isn't it?

Yeah, there. I don't even know how many people there are, but there's a lot of people who regularly participate. It's mostly people who are solo. A few people at, you know, bigger firms are just getting started, but it's nice. One of my big concerns going out on my own was honestly getting lonely not working in an office, you know, because, like, I just like being around people and that Discord has gone a long way. Like that's, that's the people I hang out with during the day, you know, for, for company. So that helps a lot. So far. Two years in, haven't gotten lonely yet, so doing all right there.

Awesome. Okay, cool. We'll drop that stuff down in the show notes. Be sure to check that stuff out. We could probably track down a way to get an invite link to. That's kind of hard with Discord sometimes because they like expire in my early.

Days of like playing with like cognito forms and setting up my firm. If you go to taxpros discord.com it gives you a cognito form that'll then generate an invite link.

Okay, cool. We'll have a link for that down below. Derek, thank you for coming and hanging and we'll see you in the next one.

Thanks for having me.