417 How To Upgrade Your Peer Network (And Why)

What do I owe the vast majority of what I learned about firm running too? Like is it, is it a, a course or a, or conference talk or anything like that? Honestly, 90% of what I've learned hasn't come from any of that stuff, has come from regular old people. Not people you would think of as thought leaders, but just folks who are willing to be collaborative, willing to share like their experiences and their own firm running journey and, and be real. Like don't sugarcoat it. Like tell me what's actually going on, what works and what doesn't work. And having a network of these different types of relationships, I mean it was, it was the single biggest unlock for me and accounting firm running. It's why I'm so bullish on, on communities and on not lurking and how, you know, hopefully what I do more than anything else for people is actually connect them with other people. I think that's even more valuable than getting just my perspective, which is a reflection of a whole bunch of people's perspective perspectives that I've talked with. And that's now I'm kind of a product of that. But man, there's nothing better than finding those people. I'm going to run you through today. Eight relationships that I think are really, really important to have things to get from those peers and it's going to make the whole journey more sustainable, more enjoyable. You're going to cut years off your learning process and do it in a much more sustainable way. So let's talk about it. Okay? 8 Types of Peer relationships that I needed to run a firm that I think you could benefit from. Just like full disclosure here. I do run an accountant community and like my approach to community. We're actually probably not even going to call it a community anymore. What I run that community for is to give you like a systematic way to build these relationships. That's the thing I'm most interested in. To me, community as for me has gotten a little bit too like open ended. Can communities have vibes and cool stuff? Like yeah, yes, 100%. What I want to do is find for you the shortest path to making these connections. So that firm running is not an isolating endeavor. Whether you are a side hustler that's first going out and doing their own thing or somebody running, you know, a 10 million firm. So I do have a community that does this. It's called Realize. It's linked in the show notes of every single one of these videos. We're putting together small groups right now. So if this is something you Struggle with. It's totally why the community exists. It's just only thing I'm going to say about it for the rest of the episode because there are a whole bunch of different ways to get these things. And like the probably the place to start is just not being afraid to be visible. Like, are you posting on stuff, engaging with folks on social media? Are you willing to like, get out from behind the keyboard and send somebody a message? You'll call them, hop on a zoom, something like that, meet them for coffee if they're local, go to an accounting conference if you haven't done that yet. They're so valuable, not just for the content, but for the peers and the people that you meet. Lots of ways to do this stuff. Think about it more through the lens of what do I need and what are the various ways I can get that. Okay, first type of peer relationship that I needed to run a firm, a tactical peer group. So not just one person, but a small group of people. My preferred version of this is like five or six folks. So I've got a diversity of perspective there. But they're all coming from similar firms to my own. Because if you're a bookkeeping firm and uh, and the other people are tax firms, it's just different. If you're a side hustle firm and the others are running big teams, that's just very different. So the first, like, first type of thing that I need from my peer relationships and oftentimes is a good place to start because some of the other relationships after this are kind of like a product of building a relationship with people. And you, you gotta start somewhere. So one, a tactical peer group. Some people, people call it a mastermind group, whatever you want to call it. The intent is one all going to meet, we're all going to be vulnerable and we're all going to try to get better. And the job of everyone else is not to fix you and pick everything apart. The job is to listen and to share experiences. And if that's not something you've ever experienced before, a small room full of folks that are just willing to be vulnerable and talk about doing this stuff, it is the most powerful thing any other human beings could possibly do for you. I bring this up quite a bit, but like, I have a great support structure. Uh, my wife thinks I'm the best at stuff. Uh, I'll be stressed, I'll talk about what I'm doing. And she's like, man, you're just, you're just so good at this stuff. You're Doing great. Even when I was running a firm, I'd get home and she's like, you're just, you're so good at this stuff. And I'm like, I appreciate that. But do you really know, like, you like, I might be awful at this stuff. You don't actually know that. In fact, I'm having some problems right now, so maybe I am awful at this stuff. I, I don't care how good your support structure is. That stuff is, I mean, incredibly valuable and, and helpful. But other people who run accounting firms, there's a different level of understanding there. And you need to be clear. You, like, in a perfect world, you got both, right? But the first time I sat down with a bunch of other accounting firm owners who knew exactly the struggles of running a firm, it was so refreshing. It was, it was huge. Okay. Second type of peer relationship. I need to run a firm, a peer group. For each of my core software tools, I practice management system. What are the core workflow tools that I'm using? Because they are so complex these days that 10 different firms will use the same tool 10 different ways. And if you are only stumbling through running, pick a tool, a practice management system, a tax intake tool, a month end close automation tool. If you've only ever seen your own setup, I cannot stress to you enough how like, unoptimized it probably is because you won't, you just won't stumble into the perfect setup without seeing how other people use it. And there's like, I see this, Honestly, I see this every single month in the community when we're running sessions and you've got 20 people in a room that all use the same tool. Everybody is doing the same things different ways. There is no one right answer for every single firm. But just by being exposed to how people are using those tools, you're going to come away with some really powerful unlocks. For the same reason that hearing how other people run their accounting firms. Like, you always take a couple of, couple little tidbits from those conversations that, you know, even, even if you don't plug them directly into your firm, the value is, is that they're now bumping around in your head and you have a more complete mental model for how to make decisions in your firm. I hear a ton of things from people about what they do and what they, what works and what doesn't work. And even if I don't run out and implement that overnight, I at least know that if I'm in a similar situation, I can be like, oh, yeah, uh, Tina, Said that one thing, they tried going down this one path or they tried using this one tool, and here's where they ended up. Doesn't mean that's gonna be the same outcome for me, but it's a whole lot better than having no information. And the reality is, if you. If you don't know anybody else that's using that tool, if you've never actually gotten a peek behind their curtain, in all likelihood, as with all other things in life, you're not at the ceiling like, you just aren't, because you're blind to what everyone else is doing. Right? Number three, type of peer relationship that I need to run a firm. The friend that is a step ahead, who's that person that's just a bit ahead of you on the journey? We did an episode not that long ago about mentorship and how to. How to. How to make that ask and how to potentially, you know, maybe find your first mentor in 2025. The right person that is ahead of you that can be really helpful for you is not the guru who's 20 steps ahead. It's the person who's, you know, just a bit ahead of you on that journey. For me, those folks were super inspiring, and they demystified the path to get there. It's like you can talk to them and you can see what their normal is and how they navigate the day to day. And oftentimes there'll be things there that were like, oh, man, I. I kind of can't imagine that. But one of the most amazing hacks there is is to spend time around people for whom something that's unthinkable for you is the norm for. For them. Because when you have that room, it's just a matter of time before that becomes the norm for you. And so it's an opportunity to completely reprogram how you think about things, to get out of your own way, to be able to surround yourself with people like that. Now, firm running is not so linear of a thing as to. As for any one person to be ahead of someone else in every domain. So even for somebody that. That is, you know, ahead of you in the traditional sense, there will still be things where you can be helpful to them because you're ahead of them. Maybe that's sales, maybe that's tech, Whatever it is. Like, there's just so many levels to running an accounting firm, a firm that's, you know, making more money or further down the road or something like that. That is not to say that they are better than you. There is no kind of single metric for what ahead looks like. So also like don't be afraid to be helpful there. But one thing that a lot of us don't do is number four, having those friends who are a step behind, like being willing to be available and helpful. For folks who are maybe struggling and not quite as far down that journey as you are, there's something like very. And there is actual science to this that a very big part of what we need is like the feeling of giving back, of being useful, of helping other people. That's like a very big part of kind of the diversity of experiences that you need to feel fulfillment is there has to be stuff that isn't just about you and isn't about your own ends. And so like those friends that are a step ahead of you in many ways, having those friends that are a step behind you and being willing to give back is, is just as important for your own well being and is also kind of only the reasonable thing to do if you expect those folks ahead of you on the journey to be helpful. Right. This episode is sponsored in part Carbon, the practice management system. Something that Carbon does that I love is they will literally tell you the stuff that they are working on and have like a big ta da event at the end of the year to announce. Like, hey, here's the stuff we're about to ship and here's what we're prioritizing for the following year, which that level of confidence and transparency. I like it. In fact, in the process of doing that they probably actually get a lot of really useful feedback around like okay, here's what I like about that, here's what I don't like about that. Whereas if they didn't put that stuff out ahead of time and kind of just did this big tada, they would have less information from their users than they have by like kind of involving them in that conversation. They did that at the end of 2024, announced a whole bunch of stuff. Honestly, all the Carbon nerds and Carbon just has some real enthusiasts, they all turn up to that webinar and they're so it's like the highlight of the year. They got the popcorn out, they're like oh, what are they going to announce? And a bunch of people did get excited and they went ran out to LinkedIn and they're like, oh, I'm so, I'm so excited for this and that and that and that. I mean props to Carbon for building that level of fandom in your software tool. But also people, it's Accounting firm software. Let's get some perspective. Probably not a lot of tools in your stack with that level of transparency if you're in the market for practice management system Carbon, it's one of those tools you kind of have to consider. It's like on the have to look at list. Learn more about Carbon. Check out the link down in the show notes. This episode of Sponsored part by teamup. You know the greatest proof of something that actually works. People are doing it. People are coming back and doing it more. I. I got a report here from the last few weeks of the projects that Team Up's been working on. By the way, Team up, they help you hire talented accountants in the Philippines directly. You work directly with them. Can I just run you through like, I don't know, like half of the things they got in the pipeline right now. Firm in Hawaii hiring a bookkeeper. Returning firm. They're coming back for more. New firm in California hiring a senior accountant. New firm in Australia. I'm so sorry. Oh, what was that? I'm sorry. Sorry. Hiring a tax accountant. Firms in Florida and Texas hiring senior tax accountants. They are returning firms. BC a returning firm from BC hiring a junior bookkeeper. Arkansas firm hiring an executive assistant. New firm from Colorado hiring a senior accountant. You get the idea. Every flavor of accountant you can imagine a whole bunch of firms that are coming back which tells me they've done this before and it worked. That's what I did. I started with one and then immediately hired like three more folks in the Philippines over the course of two or three months. If you're looking to work directly with folks in the Philippines, Team Up's got the recruiters can help you do it. Check out the link in the show notes to learn more. Number five, I need the friend that I can send old clients to. And this is a biggie because we get really concerned leaving our clients flapping out in the breeze and having to quote, unquote, fire them. That that can be a stressful thing because you don't want to leave them hard done by. The reality is there's somebody out there that they would be a great fit for. And, and if you already knew that person and if you already had that connection, it accelerates the rate at which you can churn the suboptimal clients, which gives you capacity to move up that like that client profile, trend it towards those A clients even faster because you can't do that as long as you have the C and D clients weighing you down. Now there's a version of this where These clients are just jerks or not fun to work with or something like that. And that stuff. I wouldn't, I wouldn't. Those, those are not good hand me downs. But when you've got friends that you can send that stuff to so that anytime you are not taking that one on or getting rid of a client, you've got a good home for it, that makes it way less stressful for you. The notion of cutting loose, suboptimal clients. I mean, even in what I do now take speaking gigs. Like, I get a lot of requests for speaking gigs that I can't do. And as a result, I can be super useful for other people who are like, I think I want to do more of the speaking stuff. And I get an understanding of what they're comfortable with and what they're. They're not and the type of talks that they want to do. And then when somebody asks me to do a talk that I can't do, I'm like, hey, go talk. Go connect with, like one of these two or three people, and they're a great fit for your event and, and what you're wanting to do, I feel way less pressure to say yes when I know that I can connect them with somebody else that will do a good job. And managing clients in an accounting firm like it is, it is even more emotionally taxing than that because oftentimes you've built a relationship with these clients and to kind of dump them, like, that's, that's a. I don't know, like, it just doesn't feel good. Nobody likes that. But if you know you have a great home that they can go to, that totally changes the calculation. A lot of people asked, I did an episode on this a while back, like, a better way to fire your clients. And a lot of people asked, how do I even find these folks? Like, where do I. Where do I find these firms? And how do I know that they'll do a good job? This is the value of the peer network, of the, of being visible online and talking with other accountants on social media, going to conferences. Like, there's so much value in having folks that you can tap for different things to support them, but also to support your business relationship. Number six, the friends who can send you clients. Now we're talking, baby. It goes the other way, too. I talked with someone not that long ago, and we've, We've. We've probably all gotten a version of this before where a bigger fish in the ecosystem that we're in makes a bunch of cutbacks like you know, we're not going to take clients who have annual fees under 20 grand or something like that. And all of a sudden you have all these clients that are, are C and D clients for somebody else get let into the ecosystem and they all come to your door and they are like a clients and S tier clients for you that can totally redefine your business. And those firms, they are looking for people like you that they can send those clients to. So there's a version of this that sucks and is slimy where you're like hey, you got any, got any clients that you need? And I don't think we should try to be like that. But I would way rather take clients from a friend than just those random walk ins. Right? Like that's not a bad deal. Two more to go. Relationship number seven. Another firm within your specialization. Boy, I was the first accounting conference I went to. I was at a stage where we were growing this sort of like dental medical back office part of our firm and it was, it seemed really cool, was growing really fast. Made it just made a ton of sense because these docs, the last thing they want to do is manage their back office and we're like oh, we can be like the central back office for these solo clinics and even like dental and medical groups. And when I went to that conference I sat down. I think I've shared this story on the podcast before. I say that a lot. We're 400 and something episodes in. I shouldn't assume anybody remembers anything I said a year ago I go to this conference and the very first thing is it was a zero con. And so there's this real like hipster chia pudding and kale sort of breakfast. And so I sit down, there's three other people at the table. One lady was, had been running a bookkeeping and tax practice for like 20 years. Another lady was thinking about getting into bookkeeping but doesn't do it. And I'm like you're at a zero con. And then there's a guy who ran back office for huge medical groups. Like they technically did this for like Kaiser like humongous medical groups. He was the head of like all the back office stuff that they do. And you know with me at the point where I was in my journey where trying to do this on a obviously a much, much smaller scale, I I just like, I mean I started picking his brain like crazy and in the course of a 30 minute conversation I learned, I mean stuff that saved me years of suffering like ju just that One chance encounter where we have a 30 minute conversation there and he's within my domain and he was definitely ahead of me in that domain. I was able to get so much valuable information from him that was very, very specific to the type of people that we're trying to serve. And he actually gave me some great advice on what, where to trend that client profile and what we ought to probably steer clear of given the profile of our firm and the type of stuff that we wanted to do. He was more working on mid market stuff like you know, net suites and intacts of the world, like bigger operations. And I'm like, I don't really want to go there. And he had some unbelievably good advice for me that just accelerated. I mean it's, it's so funny, like I didn't know the guy's name. You had this conversation once. You will never cross paths with that person again. But they, that one conversation just completely changed your trajectory. There's things within specializations that are going to be very specific to how you serve that type of client. And so anytime you've got people that are serving the same types of clients as you like, it is, it is gold any time that you can get with those firms. I think these days people are generally pretty open to that because folks aren't super competitive about this stuff. There's plenty to go around. Last one, number eight is a more personal one. Just a couple good friends for personal support. Like when stuff hits the fan, when a couple employees leave during tax season, when that huge client leaves. There's a lot of different types of support systems. But one that is really, really valuable to me is others who've been through the same thing and also run accounting firms like just from a, on a very personal level. Running a business can be extremely isolating. If you run a team, your relationship with the team is. It is kind of put in a box and you are left on your own to worry about the ownership stuff and the really hard staffing decisions and all that. Like you're, you are well and truly on your own unless you've got like a, you know, a coach you're paying or something like that. And having just a couple super solid relationships that are lean a little more towards like the marriage of lifestyle and running an accounting firm, man, having a couple of those people in your life who can just listen and understand what you got going on. Just having that conversation makes all of this stuff like so much more sustainable compared to what the vast majority of people do. They may kind of sort of know a couple other firms in town, but that's it. Like most people don't have those relationships at all. Especially people starting out. If this is a new thing for you, you're not going to know, like you're not going to have friends doing this likely unless you went through school with a couple folks that did the same thing. Like you're kind of figuring it all out on your own, which is the very slowest and unoptimized way to do this stuff. When there's a whole bunch of other people out there who are happy to share the playbook and on like a more personal level, like just share the journey that like everybody's got stuff they're good at and they're bad at and they're all figuring it out. And entrepreneurship, man, it comes with some trade offs. It's amazing in many ways, but it's also got some real downsides that you have to be mindful of and mitigate and learn how to create boundaries and, and so many of those lessons you just don't learn until you actually get them wrong and pay the price for them. But to have people there to support you along the way, man, that like, that makes so, so much of a difference. It is like black and white night and night and day. The era of me in this profession when I was in, in the bubble, just stuck in my firm group think versus when I saw the bigger world and how many other firms were out there and realized like, well of course we're not going to be doing it perfect when there's tens of thousands of other firms doing the exact same thing as us. I probably have something to learn. Like as soon as I was willing to lean into that and realized there's actually a bunch of really cool people out there doing the same thing as me that are super happy to be transparent and share what they're doing like that. I mean you could see like the line graph of my career. Like that was a big old turning point that totally changed everything about running an accounting firm. Can't recommend it enough, whatever that looks like for you. The best way to build relationships, I think it starts with just being visible, with being willing to comment, willing to send the dm, like the, the whole stranger danger thing. When you're like the same thing my kids struggle with in elementary school where it's like, I don't, they don't want to deal with rejection and all like all that stuff is real. But man, if you just optimize for connections and you're willing to make a habit of being out there, not being afraid to reach out. The power of the network on the other side of that is just like. It's huge. It. It changes absolutely everything about running an accounting firm. Got any thoughts on that? Let me know in the comments. This is a big one for me. Big part of what brought me to what I am doing now. It's kind of the cornerstone of what's brought me to what I do today. Gang, thanks for being here. I'll see you in the next one.