425 Why You Should Use 3 Tier Proposals

Talked with a number of accounting firms lately who for the very first time this year rolled out three tier proposals. And it was kind of a reminder to me of just how powerful that is, how big of an unlock it is. So today we're talking about all the reasons why this benefits your firm, oftentimes in ways that you're not thinking about before considering making this change. So I'll run you through what I think are the greatest upsides of doing so and if you're not doing it today, some practical ways of starting sooner than later, like not having to wait until December, January, annual renewal season, but being able to lean into a bit of that. Probably not right now if you're in the middle of tax season, but immediately after tax season. So come on in today, let's talk about three tier proposals. So every week in my online community realize I run sort of live coaching sessions for different types of firms and I was running one for sub one million dollar tax firms the other day and several folks shared that they'd recently rolled out three tier proposals. Basically I put out the prompt, what's the very best change that you made this year that's already paying off? A couple people called that out. I'd heard the same from a couple people that the month prior. I forget about this because I think we on my firm we went to three tier proposals in maybe 2019 and it was a bigger firm. And actually some of the benefits I think were lost in my kind of bigger, honestly legacy firm as a team of about 40. I think for smaller firms the benefits are even greater. So I got five thoughts here. I wanted to share around benefits to going to three tier proposals that you may not be thinking about. And so just to clarify, three tier proposals, it's like your bronze, silver, gold sort of package. You're giving them three different options. You know, you can call that whatever you want. It's usually going to be enabled by a standalone proposal tool. The two that I recommend are Ignition and Anchor. We could put those down in the show notes. Done some podcasts in the past on the tremendous value of using a proposal tool, not just using DocuSign or a Microsoft Word document or something like that. Because your proposals are where the rubber meets the road. That's where people start cutting checks. And the teeniest bit that you can optimize the ability and willingness of someone to say yes impacts the bottom line. Another 20 bucks on every engagement is not just another 20 bucks to the top line, but another 20 bucks to the bottom line. Pure profit. So worth Nailing those proposals however we can. Okay, number one, first reason why this is worth doing if you haven't yet. And if you do already do this, there are wrong or less optimized ways to do this. So you may actually pull some seeds from this. Number one, nobody wants to be at the bottom. And so normally when you first roll this out, most if not all of your clients will be at this like compliance tier, which is, we're kind of doing the minimum for you. So in my, I had a tax practice and I had a bookkeeping practice or cast practice, whatever you want to call it, we did a lot more than bookkeeping. When we rolled this out in my tax practice, by and large, for all but 100, for all but a handful of our clients, we had like, I don't know, 1600 tax clients or something like that at the time for all but a handful of them. We were basically just doing the filing of the forms whenever they got us the info. And then a few folks we would email before the year end and be like, hey, do you want us to run some projections for you? But honestly, we were usually so tired by December that we were hoping that they would say no. And just from a quality standpoint, while we did a good job on tax prep, I would not say that at that point in time we were good on the tax advisory side. Like, we just, we weren't, we weren't pushing that as far as you could, trying to make the most of anything beyond like maxing out retirement contributions, which is like the one on one of tax planning. And there's a whole lot more than that that you can do. So we were honestly like we were when I bought it, it was an 80 year old tax firm. And so it was what you would expect, what most tax firms, at least in the US are today. It was exactly that. So when we made the transition for the first time to three tier proposals and we put pricing in front of clients before the project started for the first time, this was the first time that we weren't going to hourly bill absolutely everything. So those proposals went out in December for the first time. People are like, what the heck are these? Even though we had sent a whole sequence of emails telling them what was happening beforehand, even like physical letters, the proposals go out, we, we incentivize people to go and take a look because we were saying, hey, for the first time we're going to give you a price up front, but you need to go here to see it. So folks had a little more motivation to get There. The first time we mandated them giving us a payment method up front, we didn't take any money up front. We just wanted the payment method so that when the project was done, as long as it came in within the scope that we anticipated, we could auto bill it. And that ended up being the case for actually 96% of our projects. Big blocker for folks looking to do this for the first time or who are afraid to give a price upfront as they're like, well, I don't know how much work it's going to be upfront. And that's true. But the vast majority of the time it's more or less the same as it was last year. So we basically just had this threshold of like, well, unless it's over 120% of what we expected or more than 20% more than what we expected, then we would just auto bill it. I think it's also important not to split hairs. If you can think of those clients more on a portfolio basis, knowing that you're going to make out across 500 clients and not like spend a tremendous amount of time and effort splitting hairs on every single one. I think that's a valuable exercise too. But when we put this proposal in front of them for the first time, it had three options. And we made it really clear for these people what we've always done for you, it's the bottom option. And nobody likes having the bottom option, even if they are cheapskates. It's really interesting for someone to have to opt in to the bare minimum or for them to have to like opt into the worst version, right? I mean, most of these people are su. Successful entrepreneurs when they go and buy a Toyota Camry. They're not accountants. They're not buying a Toyota Camry when they go and buy a Lexus. They're not like buying the base trim package. They're just not. And when you present to them that, hey, we've been doing the base trim package for you, they will almost always go higher. Now, the devil's in the details of what, what hire means, because there's a version of hire. In fact, I would say the default path for hire is this. It's hire means advisory. And for most firms, advisory means a bunch of meetings with your top level, most scarce people, the people that already don't have any time. So the last thing that you need is getting a few more billable hours squeezed out of your most constrained staff people or partners or whatever that looks like for you. So the bigger opportunity here is to Devise service packages that are better so not just more. We talk about this on the podcast a lot. Not just more, but better. So if bronze, I mean, let's just say we're making out a hundred bucks an hour on whatever stuff is under the bronze package. If my silver package is twice the price and it's twice the work, that's not better. It isn't. Maybe you prefer doing that because it's doing more for the same client, but I would argue that that's actually harder to build a business around because you're doing twice as many services. You're doing a more diverse selection of services. Most likely then, as opposed to the business where you make the same money per hour doing more specific types of services in the more specific business, like I can plug in tech. I can really like streamline that one very specific thing that we, we do. And operationalizing it ought to be easier. If I'm doing a whole bunch of different types of things. I probably need different types of different people on the team. And so going broader, but not getting paid any better to go broader, that's not a change that I probably want to make. Now there's other like, external arguments for that. Like you can attract maybe better clients who across the board will pay you more money if you do those other services. But just in a vacuum, a client upgrading, opting to pay you more needs to somehow also be better. So in a perfect world, if you're making a hundred bucks an hour on your bronze package, we wanna try to find a, and design a silver package where we can make 150 bucks an hour. Likewise for the gold. Like the further up that service library sort of value ladder the client goes, the more lucrative that needs to be for you. And a really big part of that, like we see this in a very linear way where we have to imagine something in the silver package that is 50% more valuable and you may be blocked just on. Well, what could that even be? I can't imagine what that looks like. Okay, gang. This podcast is sponsored in part by Team up, the folks that help you find super talented accountants in the Philippines and hire them directly. Team up just launched a. What do they call it? A salary guide. A salary guide for hiring accounts in the Philippines. But it's so much more than a salary guide. You know all the embarrassing, ignorant questions we're afraid to ask about hiring people in the Philippines. Philippines. How much does it cost to get this type of person? Can I even get, I don't know, a tax pro, an accounting Manager, an executive assistant. Is that a thing? This guide, and it's going to be linked down in the show notes. It'll show you not just how to like, get each of those different types of people, but what they'll cost, how to build out a job description, all of the questions that you have been too embarrassed to ask to find. Folks at Team up, then put them into a guide that you can swipe. Get that one down at the link in the show notes. Oh, this episode is actually sponsored in part by Ramp, who. I'm a Ramp user. I really am. My business actually runs on Ramp. It is a super, super solid spend management platform, which is a phrase that they made up because they can't call themselves a bank. So they're not a bank. But like spend hygiene and getting our clients onto better banking. I think it's a really, really big opportunity right now. And it's one of those things where we don't necessarily like, interject ourselves to say, like, oh, no, we should be opinionated with how you manage your money. But then you see, like, what a headache is to track down receipts across your team for just getting the month end close done. You see stuff like people passing around the office card where the numbers get stolen every nine months. Like, gang, there is a solution for this, a way, way better way to do this stuff. We've done a couple Demos on my YouTube channel now for Ramp. I would recommend you check those out because you may not even be thinking about, like, I don't even know what quote unquote, spend management or a good version of this looks like. Give it a look, solves a whole bunch of headaches is like the responsible thing to do. Like, if you run a small business, I'm thinking, like, put this information in front of your clients. If you do any type of bookkeeping, it can be a big old workflow hack to make your life easier. To learn more about Ramp, check out those videos on the YouTube channel or the link down in the show notes. Second thought here. Number two, the reason why you do this is because you have clients who want to pay more, who will maybe not maybe want to pay more is not the right way to put it, but who will very happily pay more. In our heads, we fixate on the folks who complain who are at like the bottom of the list, the C and the D clients. But the reality is there's a lot of folks on your client list right now that have absolutely no issue paying you more for what you already do. And that marginal extra effort from you if you're going from the bronze to the silver package, they may be like, dude, I pay you twice as much to get just a little bit more from you. So we have to be really careful here for our own sort of internal voice keeping us from doing something that the client will happily do. At the end of the day, if the client's opting into it, like, it's not up to me to determine what is fair. Like, they're the ones signing on the dotted line. As long as I'm delivering on the things that I said that I'm gonna do, it's the client's decision. I don't have to feel bad about this being too much or, you know, somehow. Extortion, extortional, extort. I don't know. You know what I mean? But that's oftentimes what that internal voice tells us. And that internal voice is anchored on where you used to be. And that is a very specific to you circumstance when your internal voice is like, well, geez, Louise, 12 months ago we were only doing this or that. Like, this just feels wrong to be doing this other thing. Your internal voice is the only one thinking that, like, yes, clients, you can give them whiplash if you try to change that stuff too fast. But at the end of the day, the decision is 100% the clients to say yes or no. And we have to listen to the market. We do have to listen to the things that clients are saying. We gotta consider, could they literally go across the street and get the same thing for less money? Like that's a factor. And whether or not this is a good idea. But never forget the fact that you have a whole bunch of clients on your client list who will happily pay you more than today, not just to do more, but will pay you an even better effective rate to get more from you. And so most of the folks, that's the. These first two things are probably the things that surprise folks most when they do that three tier rollout is simply the number of people who will go above bronze. The number of people, even people who seem feverse and seem like they can be cheapskate. Sometimes a surprising number of them will go up that ladder because they don't want to be on the bottom of it. So much of why people buy the things they buy is a product of how buying those things makes them feel. And we were so like in the weeds of the work and what really is the value and what our colleagues charge and all these different things that we're so, like, we have such a clinical approach to what price ought to be, that we forget that there's a whole lot of people out there that just spend, honestly that just spend money to spend money. And I don't. It's not to say we necessarily want to take advantage of that, but the reason why people go to giant firms and pay ridiculously huge professional fees is because they feel like they're worth it. Because they feel like they need a big this or that to make their big boy dreams come true. Right? So the whole notion of like when somebody pays more for something, they value it more. That's 100% real. And the opposite is also true. When they pay less for it, they will value it less. Number three, third thought clients like optionality. I'm all for like getting out of the way of the advisor and trusting what the advisor tells the client they need. I think, I think the counterargument here is people who will say, well, nobody knows what the client needs quite like the advisor does. And that's true in some ways, but not in many other ways that are still important to that client. Like the client has a better understanding of what the business needs than what I do. Like I don't understand that client's business better than they do. So there's some give and take there. Like the reality is something in the middle. But what nobody likes is feeling like, well, I'll say what most people don't like is feeling like they're being strong armed into a one size fits all solution. Most people appreciate having some flexibility to say, like, here's the level that I want right now. It could change down the road, but like, here's what I think I'm ready for. There will be some clients who are just like, tell me what you think I need. And they just get out of the way. But that's minority of them. And when you do have those folks, like that's actually really helpful. And usually they're willing to do that because you've built a level of trust with them and they will follow you to the ends of the earth. And honestly that scenario makes the it feeling wrong conversation a little bit harder because they put all the pressure back on you to do what is quote unquote right. And we ourselves are completely incapable of arriving at what the value of what we do is to that individual. It's, it's their decision at the end of the day. Honestly, I think if the client is telling you this, usually it is code for the same way in a negotiation you would make somebody else give you a Number first. It is code for they really want to work with you and would probably pay a lot. And they think that the number you give them is going to be less than their ceiling. So they put the onus on you to propose a price first. Because we want this to be because they like us and appreciate us, but oftentimes it's because they see us and how we price ourselves. And they're like, I'm pretty sure if I just leave it up to him to give me a price. If I just say like, no, like, give me a price. If I put the ball in her court, she's going to give me a price that is much lower than whatever my ceiling would be. If I came back and said like, well, here's what I would pay for it. The client doesn't want to do that because then, you know, the professional is going to anchor to that price. So they get out of the way and they let you pick the number first. Like just from a negotiation standpoint, but it can be framed as just tell me what I need. Number four. Nice part about having this is you get a linear progression through these sort of service packages for your clients. And to be clear, the three tier proposal shouldn't, probably shouldn't look the exact same for everyone. Some firms do it this way. I never did. The three tier proposal for me is each tier was a collection of services and the collection of services looked different client to client, but they were still presented as packages at various, you know, at three different levels. In my case, some people like going to like four levels. I just think that's too much decision making for the client. But now that you have these packages, you have a like progression path to get clients through. I think I've shared this before, but we grew reasonably fast. Our firm did, but still year over year, our largest source of new revenue was from existing clients being upsold into more stuff. And that's great, especially if you are following what we talked about, where your silver packages are paying you a higher effective hourly rate than your bronze packages. Then every time somebody upgrades you get them to that higher package, you're actually making more money on that client. Not just a bigger top line, but like effective rate, like more profitable work. So then the goal is you get people in, however you get them in. But once they've been dazzled and they see the value of the other things that you do or these situations organically come up throughout there and you're like, you can have a frank conversation with the client, be like, hey man, like this is what the silver tier solves exactly what you're going through right now. It's why it exists. It's why we do it for 347 other people. And they're like, okay, I get it, let's upgrade to that silver tier. Until you have those packages that can be a hard thing, maybe not a hard thing for you, but a hard thing for your team to do. Because it's in those moments where a specific need comes up that the client most values that thing that you can do. And if your team has a language around how to negotiate these conversations makes it much easier for anybody to bring up the idea that it's like, hey, if that's really important to you and you really, really want that, let's get you onto this service plan which will better serve what you need. Then when you go into the next renewal season, the whole thing gets much more tactical. It's more a question of like, with what we know about this client, what does a more premium version of what we do look like for them? What's the unique collection of services that will get them most excited? And then every year when we did renewals, we would end up having a lot of folks like upgrading and buying more and more because they were happy with what we were doing. Last 1, Number 5. Interestingly, this approach phases out the bottom feeders much faster. So if you take, if you got a hundred clients, you take them all and you give them all a three tier set of options. And 50 of them go silver, 10 of them go gold, and the last 40 go bronze. They all just sort of self selected in terms of who has the greatest willingness to pay me for what I do right. And that's immensely valuable. Immensely, immensely valuable. This is quite possibly the biggest benefit of moving away from hourly billing that people don't talk about is giving them options allows them to select how much they value what you do and what they're willing to pay for what you do. Rather than just approaching every engagement with this static hourly rate as if that is the most fair way that you can price for what you do in that scenario. Of my hundred clients, I now see that I've got 40 in that bronze bucket. If I'm going to cut 40 clients tomorrow, it's really easy to know who I should cut right now. Do you want to nitpick that there's a lot of people who will say, well, what about ability to pay? What if those folks in the bronze bucket just don't have the money to pay me? One of the most Important variables of a client being a good client is they actually have money to pay you to do work for them. Which might go without saying, but I think where people get caught up on this is it can be easy to want to do this sort of quasi charitable thing and grow a firm of slightly discounted work. And, and so many firms, so, so, so many firms struggle with this where they are like, oh, I wanna support the community, I wanna do this or that. And so they do this slightly discounted work. Meanwhile, the community's got people that don't have any money to pay for work that you're doing nothing for. To me, the way better version of this is the barbell approach. I'm gonna work with the people who have money to pay what we do, pay us top dollar for what we do, because that actually gives me more time flexibility to help the people who really need my help. This whole, like doing slightly discounted work, I think if we're honest with ourselves, oftentimes it is the inability to tell those people no and have that uncomfortable conversation. It's easier and feels better to steer clear of that uncomfortable conversation. This is feeling like a real gut punch for some folks right now. I'm sorry, this is me speaking from like very personal experience having to have that hard conversation. I don't want to do that. But what sounds nice is doing somebody a favor if I just let them slide through. I don't do a rate increase for a few years and I tell myself I'm helping them out. That makes me feel good about myself, but it sure isn't good for my business. I want to help the people that super, super, super need help. And I only want to make room for the people who are willing to pay full rates, top dollar for what we do. That is a. I think that's a more efficient machine to truly help people. This episode is brought to you part by the fine folks at CL Staffing who help you find talented accounts in the Philippines. One of the fastest growing trends and small firm running. Honestly, ask around, ask in the comments. Ask folks you meet on social media. A huge number of people have started doing this in the past year or two. Not just accounting firms, tax firms as well. Yes, I understand with US tax you got 7216 disclosures and that's not a reason to not offshore. It's a reason to disclose totally manageable ways to navigate that thousands of firms are doing so. World's getting smaller and honestly, it's never been harder to find folks that are excited about doing accountants onshore. Now does this change how you build your org chart out a little bit? It does, but I was. Let's see, I was on a meeting with 22 other sub million dollar firms, tax firms specifically, and the prompt was what's the best thing you've done this year? Year a couple different people called out hiring in the Philippines for the first time and they were super happy with the people that they'd found. Got account staffing's background. They were an accounting firm. They started hiring themselves. Folks in the Philippines hired some recruiters over there to do that directly and now they help other firms do the same thing. Simple as that. That's something you want to explore. Have a conversation with me. You got nothing to lose. Learn more about cloud account staffing down in the Show Notes. This episode is sponsored in part by Makers Hub. Hey, Quick Quick Win opportunity for your clients that do any sort of accounts payable even if you don't do bill pay. Send them to this podcast sponsor, MakersHub. You've heard me talk about Makers Hub before. We've run several Demos on the YouTube channel. Ooh. In fact, bonus points if you send your client one of my YouTube videos. Okay, this isn't your ad read, Jason. Makers Hub, they are leaning into AI, visual models and large language models to enable a entirely different level of accounts payable automation. I've talked about this before. The single most disrupted part of the accounting profession right now, courtesy of AI is accounts payable. And Makers Hub is a great snapshot of that done really well, really smartly. It's not one more platform to manage. It pushes all the data back into the QuickBooks file. So you still got a single source of truth. I have clients who this would have saved an unbelievable amount of time for. And this is when we were running Best of Breed tech three or four years ago for them. This would have taken that automation so much further. If you do bill pay as a service, you need to be looking at this because. Because this totally changes your business model. But even if you don't, if you have clients that struggle with this and a lot of them do, have them check out Makers Up. Super smart folks behind that. You're gonna see them out at a lot of accounting conferences this year. Learn more Check out the link down in the show notes. Okay, enough on that. I mentioned my recommendation here for proposal platforms is to go with either Ignition or Anchor. Now all the practice management systems are building a version of proposals into what they do. None of them rise to the level to me, of being good Enough to, to not pull in a dedicated tool that's across the board. Not a single practice management system has a good enough version of this. I don't care if there's PMs sponsoring this episode. They're trying and they may get there eventually. They probably will. Like, they will probably get to a point where they're good enough to use, but they're not there yet. So I still send people to either Ignition or to anchor because it makes a really big difference on the bottom line, how you optimize that proposal. Experience. People have different strategies and where they set the prices for those three options. I would say that the wrong way to look at this is exclusively on a services basis. Do you need to be able to provide more services, more value on each of those tiers? Yes, but the price escalation does not need to be linear to the number of inputs. So like, and this is the mistake that everybody makes on the, on their sort of first try doing this. And it gets kind of the whole point of this exercise wrong is they do the mental math of like, okay, we make this much money on 10 hours of work at Bronze. So I think this is going to be about half again as much work. So the fee is going to be half again as much on silver. No, like, that's not what we're doing. We're capturing more premium pricing with that silver and gold tier. So people have different strategies in different industries for how they price those three different tiers strategically. For me, especially if you're a firm that's coming to three tier pricing for the first time, in all likelihood, the vast majority of your clients are going to be starting in Bronze. Bronze is going to be their anchor point of reference for what they already have in that scenario. Honestly. And I actually did this on all proposals, but especially in this scenario, that gold tier, for me, that gold tier needs to be a YOLO price. A price where you're like, oh, like you'll be clicking your little accountant heels if somebody actually says yes to this. And the reason why it should be a YOLO price is because some people will, they'll say yes to it, they'll go for it. And those are turning points for your firm. People say yes to that and it causes you to stop and be like, all right, I kind of have to reassess everything that I think I know about how we price our services. I need to understand this client and their situation and their context so that I can go and find more of them. And to be clear, YOLO pricing for Me, that's like effective rate. That's like 2 or 3x what you're getting paid at the bronze level. And I had several, several points in my firm running journey where a few people said yes to these YOLO type engagements. And it completely changed the direction of the firm, completely changed the profile of the next client that we wanted to get. Because we realized this person who just said yes has a combination of issues that were a great solution for that we did not even know existed in the universe. And because we had the courage to price gold really aggressively, we know just how much they value it. If we only had a single option, they would have said yes and they'd be paying a half to a third of what they would have been happy to pay. Again, happy to pay. They're opting into this. There is no, like, element of guilt you need to feel here. They are opting into it. And it's when you stumble into those YOLO engagements that you're like, okay, everybody hit pause. Let's have a couple more conversations with this client. Because if we could fill even 10% of our client base with clients like this one who just said yes, that completely changes the entire outlook of the firm. But that's not possible until you have people saying yes at those YOLO rates. And YOLO rates, like everything else, YOLO being you only live once. If you're not familiar with that, YOLO rates for everybody are relative. You may run a big old firm and that's, that's, you know, a million dollar a year engagement or something like that. You may just be starting out and you're charging, you're basically making minimum wage on what you do in a YOLO rate for you is like, can I get somebody to pay me, like, you know, 50, 60 bucks an hour for this? It's totally relative. There is no right answer to what YOLO rates are, but they ought to come in at like 2 to 3x the effective rate of whatever that base compliance level is. Now, if you are just not running three tier proposals, you're just running like single tier and you're kicking yourself and you're like, dang, we should have done this last, you know, last end of the year. You could do this anytime. In fact, there's actually a lot of great arguments to be made for doing renewals mid calendar year rather than end of the calendar year. I usually recommend building proposals around the behaviors that you want to incentivize. And if, for example, you're a tax firm in the middle of tax season, right now what I want to incentivize coming out of tax season is folks who are willing to do proactive tax planning. And for me and our service packages in my firm, what we basically had was a couple packages. One where we would begin checking in in the summer through the end of the year. The lower level package where we would just check in at the end of the year. Well, what I really, really wanted was people on tax planning too, which was starting in like June or July. So we get over the hump of tax season, things are a little bit slower at that point, and we can get into more proactive tax planning. And the time, the time to kick that off isn't in December. The ship's already sailed at that point. Right. So especially for folks who have filed and if there's some sort of pain that you can solve with that higher level of service, that is the time to circle back and be like, hey, let's make sure that this, this what just happened. Let's make sure that this doesn't happen again. And you don't have to be a jerk about this. But oftentimes it's because, you know, they haven't opted into this in the past and this would have solved this issue for them. But as you're coming out of that, when they're still feeling that pain, put those options in front of them. So if you haven't used a proposal tool, actually the worst time to do a really big rollout like that is in your busiest season. The best time to change PMs, it's right after the busiest season, not going into a new calendar year. You wanna know what you're riding into battle with. You don't wanna ride into battle with something brand new. So if you haven't done the three or proposal thing, give it a try. If you're in tax season, give it a try after tax season. Even if you're a bookkeeping practice and you do annual calendar renewals, you are 100% within your rights to change that cadence. And if you've got some people who like, would benefit or you think would say yes to this more premium path, like, what's to stop you from bouncing that off them mid year? Be like, hey, I think we could do something different here that might actually be really helpful for you. What do you think about renewing now? It's going to change your annual cadence. So that will renew mid year. But if you are revisiting the services that you provide, somehow you gotta, like, have a conversation about potentially doing a hard turn on what you're doing for them. And sometimes we get spooked out by this. We think that it's gonna feel too salesy for the client. In my experience, almost always, they super appreciate it. They're like, actually, I appreciate you looking out in my business for what I need. If you think about the situation for most small business owners, they don't have like an executive team where, where all these people are intimately aware of their financials and all these different things and suggesting things to them. So for you to make a recommendation, it's like, oh, I actually really appreciate because I that because I don't have an abundance of those advisors in my life. So don't be afraid to, to make that recommendation or at least raise your hand and be like, would it be helpful if I put together a proposal for some different things that we could do for you? And you will find in the process of putting in front of them that what you're likely doing for them is the minimum it causes them to do a recalibration of. Hmm. There's other ways. The people I'm already working with could support me, and I would much rather pull them in more than have to build a bigger team or like, go find a new fractional CFO resource. Like everybody would rather, unless they don't like you. They would rather pull you in more than have to go out and source that a different way. And so it's. It's a much easier sale to make when they're already on the client list list. If you've done this transition, you got any other wisdom to share? Stuff you got right, stuff you got wrong. Equally important, pop that stuff down in the comments. We probably saved somebody some headaches. Gang. Thanks for being here. Thanks for coming and hanging. I'll see you in the next one.