468 How To Know if your Accounting Firm is SYSTEMATIZED

How do you know if your accounting firm is actually systematized? I mean, we all say it, right? Like, oh, yeah, no, we're, we're, we're building systems, building SOPs, this, that, and the other thing. But how do you actually determine how systematized your firm is and how to take it further down that spectrum? Right? And maybe even, I mean, I'll say it like, maybe even more holistically. What, what does that actually mean? I'm not afraid to say. What does it actually mean to have a systematized firm? What do systems look like? And how do we build more consistency into, like, a professional, like, firm service that just feels inherently abstract, right? Like almost unsystematizable. Today we're gonna talk about kind of three tests or maybe three ways you can think about, like, where's my firm at today? And how can I take it to a place that is more systematized? Cause that's kind of all that matters is what are you gonna do next to make it slightly more systematized? I think this will be a helpful exercise. Let's talk. Foreign. The unsystematized firm is like, probably the pretty standard mental model for what we have of accounting firms. That is, you just have a whole giant crew of professional staff that do anything and everything that the client throws your way. You're kind of the order takers, right? Like, we're just there to sell time, but basically, so as long as a member of the professional staff is capable enough to do that work, you just do it. You bill out the time. That's it. It's like, you know, time and materials. Accounting firm, within that universe, really, there is not much in the way of systematization and standardization. And like we touched on in the intro, like, it is really challenging to standardize a lot of this stuff. And I struggled with this for, for a long time until I got to a framework that was kind of a. A compromise that could both have handle the aspects of engagements that were the same while acknowledging what aspects of engagements were different, letting those be unique while putting the kind of crossover on autopilot as much as possible. And so sort of three, three questions or tests or exercises, whatever you want to call em to think through, that should give you some fresh ideas for what it even looks like to be a systematized firm. Because honestly, like, I mean, it's pretty wild. Like the number of webinars and conference talks and all of that that I had sat through earlier in my career because I loved the idea of it. And we're all on board with like, yeah, building systems and automating them and all that, but the number of years that I sat through continuing education about this stuff and came out the other side and still didn't even know what that like looked like, it's more, I don't know, it feels to me more like a talking point oftentimes than it does sometimes something that's super actionable. And like many things, it's tricky to build content around this because it's such a big spectrum of where folks are at like AI right now. Like I can talk about AI and on one end of the spectrum you've got people who are like what's a chat GPT? AI is, you know, inherently insecure. At the other end of the spectrum you've got people like Vibe coding and like building apps and being super nerds. So it's very hard to, to like talk AI in a way that's helpful to everyone. I think the same problem applies to systematizing for and talking about that in a way that's universally helpful. There's I think, a misnomer that it is just for bigger firms, which is a hundred percent not the case, I would argue, even if you're a solo firm owner. In fact, maybe especially if you're a solo firm owner, systems are all that much more important because the only brain cells your organization has to throw at a problem are your own. And the better the systems we build, the fewer the brain cells that are required to push that project a little further down the tracks. If you structure your day the way that I do, all the big brain stuff has to happen in the morning, otherwise it, it just won't happen. I save the small brain stuff in meetings for, for later in the day. And the more we can systematize, the more it takes like big brain work and makes it small brain work. And if you're a solo operator, that's great news for you because I, I can tell you personally, I've got more small brain hours in the day than I have big brain hours. But inside of any firm, the big upside there is not only do you get work out the door much faster, but you skill that work, the more you systematize it. A lack of systems relies on expertise. So the better your systems, the less reliant you are upon expertise. The way most firms run is you just hire kind of as high level people as you can and you hope they can get that stuff done, but it's still everybody sitting in a seat doing all the work. But that's it. Okay, let's get into the first sort of test or question to consider about your firm. Number one, how much overlap have you defined in the work that you do for your clients? So let's take, we'll do a tax example and a bookkeeping example. Let's take 1040 prep. The notion of creating an SOP or you know, a process document for a 1040 might be really hard or really abstract because each client has a different sort of unique collection of not only inputs to the tax return, but like facts about that person's circumstances, like where they live, how, how they make money. Like it just beyond, you know, government document returns which frankly shouldn't be, probably shouldn't be using a Tax Pro. In many cases they those are like more your turbo tax and retail type tax situations, but across all of your 1040s while they are very different in many ways. In fact, let's use the government form example. While the vast majority of the 1040s that you do, all the information does not just come from government forms, what all of them have is government forms. So like if you think about this mega venn diagram of a whole bunch of circles that are a whole bunch of different projects, where do they intersect? That is the place to start with systematization. Go to a bookkeeping example. Just as much a month end close for a small business, equally abstract, especially if you don't specialize and you're serving all sorts of different clients. And especially so if you have, if you're going beyond like cash based cash basis bookkeeping, but for all those different types of month end closes, what do they all share? What do they all have in common? An easy place to start here can actually be your pre accounting process. So every client, there's a collection of things that need to be gathered one way or another to be able to get that month end close done. And normally the way that folks approach this is the accounting professional. Whenever they're going to start working on the month end close, they start logging into all the different places, going through all kind of all the sources this could come from. And then, and step one is to gather all that information. It's annoyingly manual and actually a huge waste of your professional staff's time. The way it usually happens is that close has got to get out the door by the 12th and you're like, let's see, it's like the 5th of the month, 6th of the month, you're like what'll this take maybe two days. Let's start it on the 10th, you get to the 10th and you realize like, oh, this login's broken. We've got this issue, that issue. There's a new bank account here, I don't even know what this is. And you end up wasting your time not on actually like getting the month end closed on, but just gathering all this information and trying to get access to everything. This is where a, like a standalone pre accounting process is, is super helpful. We've done content on this in the past. But your pre accounting process basically says for this month end close, Here are the 13 items or the 72 items, whatever it is that we need to round up in order to complete this month end close. That's probably bank statements, copies of invoices, maybe something that you have to request from the client, you know, every month, maybe some print off from a system that they have. But whatever those things are, as annoying as it is that it's not automatable to get all those things automatically. That's not an excuse for not having a system to capture all those items. So the way we did this in my firm, it was a one humongous list, loads and loads and loads of records, all, everything we had to gather for all the clients basically in a single spreadsheet. And across that would be bank statements, would be loan statements or screenshots of loans from the bank because they don't give you a statement for it. And every single month end close had, you know, six to 25 items and we centralized that work. And this is actually a, I'm alluding to, to a later question, we centralized that work so that it was a core admin team that was doing all of the information gathering all of the pre accounting. Because what I want is to protect my most scarce resource, which is my professional staff and deskill this work wherever possible across different accounting firms, you have folks inside of firms doing the same work who have vastly different skill levels. I can find more admin folks. It is really, really hard to find another tax pro or like controller level person. So that's an example of where a bunch of your month end closes have something in, in, in similar in common. Sorry, a lot of dayquil right now. The pre counting process is something that like by and large gathering info. It will be similar in many ways. Like you like the ways that, that we gathered information which didn't really go client by client and almost went more like source by source. So like we may have had 17 clients with a bunch of stuff that we needed from Wells Fargo. Each of those items that we detailed, they would have a date of the month where that thing became available. So for bank statements, maybe that's the first of the month. For credit card statements, Maybe that's the 25th of the month. So for a health insurance invoice, maybe that's, you know, the 14th of the month. But we would track that in this huge spreadsheet. So when we get to the first of the month or the second of the month or third of the month, whatever it was, that team could go out and grab anything that came available that day. And so if there's, you know, 17 clients whose wells Fargo statements pop on the same day, they log into all those different accounts, they pull all that stuff and then they put it to where it needs to be. That was step one. Anyways, they would put it into the client folder. Eventually that evolved actually into those admins, like naming those files according to the file naming convention we use for that document type. It even went as far as like annotating the document and kind of staging the work paper so that the accounting pro, when they hopped in to do that project, that project was like 30, 40, 50% down the tracks when they jumped into it compared to that very busy accounting pro having to hop in and log into all these different things. So we took an aspect of that type of work and, and we centralized it in the process, de skilling it, but also making that work vastly more efficient. Because jumping around and doing all sorts of different types of work throughout the day, like, you know, that's the least efficient way to work. And the blocker here, like the person sitting on our shoulder that's telling us this won't actually work. The hesitation will always be, well, right now, like I do all of these things or that person does all these different things, can you really strip those things. Things away? And like the reality is like, there's going to be good and bad versions of this. Like there's versions of pre accounting you could do that would just be like worse, worse than whatever the default is. But it's the learning process of finding a version that doesn't suck, that still works. That keeps everybody in the loop. That's kind of the name of the game with systematization is finding the overlap and trying to do those most common things more efficiently. This episode is brought to you in part by Carbon, the practice management system. I had the opportunity recently to participate in an event that Carbon put together where they, they brought together a whole bunch of Carbon firms. And I'll be honest, I think it was a Cool event. But the thing that most blew me away was like the quality of the firms there. And if, like, if we can get, if we can get real on tech selection and how we build our tech stacks and accounting firms, firms, practice management systems today, they've never been more similar than they are now for sure. They're still different. Each one has strengths and weaknesses and all that. We gotta understand that when we're picking our practice management system. But you know what goes a really, really long ways for me when I can look at a whole bunch of firms that I respect and I'm like, can you just tell me what they're using, man? A lot of them, a lot of them are using carbon. And I'm increasingly seeing this among firm owners is if you have friends that run other firms and you're in constant contact with those people that actually like kind of auto impact how you pick your tech. Because if you have those close relationships where you're like, hey, what do you do with X, Y and Z? Like how do you handle this or that? And can get immediate answers from like real people that run firms and have worked through these things, that's something that has absolutely nothing to do with the product, but makes that product tremendously more useful. So this ad read, while it has absolutely nothing to do with the Carbon product, which is like very good and they've been in my top recommendations now for several years. But like sometimes the ultimate proof is what are the big brands using? And I can tell you there's a whole lot of very smart, very progressive firms that we should aspire to, sort of build ourselves to be similar to. It's a lot of those firms that are running carbon. Learn more about Carbon. Check out the link down in the show notes. This episode is sponsored in part by Mercury, which I am oh so happy about because I am a actually a big Mercury fan, a user myself. So Mercury is a FinTech that over 200,000 companies trust for banking and running their finances. Because the traditional way of getting this done, those platforms, big hot pile of new sponsor. There they go, walking right back out the door. Like I said, I'm a happy user myself. It is a modern platform. We liked it so much we actually moved all of my businesses to it. Now Mercury for Accountants, it's a referral partner program that allows firms to give their clients VIP access to the Mercury product and unlock special perks. Tell me more. Dedicated onboarding and support for firms and clients. Thousand dollars referral bonus for every new what? Okay. Per eligible client. An advisor portal for easy team and client management. Mercury Pro for the firm. Nice. Check out the link down in the show notes to sign up and learn more. Disclaimer Disclaimer Disclaimer Voice Mercury is a fit tech company, not a bank. Terms of Apply for bonus eligibility. See Show Notes for details. Question number two. What percentage of your SOPs your process, documentation or standard operating procedures are client specific? So the way that many of us build out SOPs, if we build out SOPs at all, the way we often build them out is for a given engagement for a client from end to end, right? So let's go back to the pre accounting example. Two different ways you could build this out. If I was going to build out an SOP for the month end close of a client from beginning to end, I would start with how we gather all the information, right? And that's going to be unique for every single client. But if we can instead centralize the pre accounting process, then what we actually do is we build SOPs for that function like that type of work and then we only build client specific SOPs for, for everything beyond that. And so that may, you know, if, if you're working with small SMBs like the info gathering process is actually can be a pretty, pretty substantial amount of time that in terms of all the time that goes into the month end close, let's say that that's, I'll be conservative, 20%. Let's say information gathering on average across all your month end closes is 20% of the time. Now rather than that client SOP being a hundred percent of the work, that client SOP is only the 80% of the work that is unique to that client. And there's a lot more examples of what we can do in the month end close process besides just pre accounting. But that's, that's kind of the goal is to get as much of that documentation as possible to be owned and kind of overseen by like these more functional overlords who are doing part of the process that is the same from engagement to engagement rather than every single project from end to end being unique and bespoke. Now the really hard thing here is you may be thinking like we've just, we've just kind of stumbled into doing whatever people ask us. And now all these engagements are wildly different. And that is, that's the default is for accounting firms to like just be happy to have the work. Say yes to it. Say yes to the next thing to the next thing gets even worse the more people you have on your team because they're not steering clients in the same direction necessarily. Like, when a client is like, what's the best way that we should do XYZ with this? Simple, simple ira. Each pay run, you're like, well, here's what makes sense to me as opposed to like, here's what our firm kind of processes and recommendation for this thing. The default is for everything to be unique and bespoke. And this is where a service library is what I call it. We've put out a bunch of content on this in the past, but this is where an internal service library finally gives your team a language for those things that are the same across different engagements. And the value of like, nailing down what is it that we actually do. What is Bookkeeping one? What's Bookkeeping two? What's Payroll one? What's Payroll two? The value of nailing down a vernacular inside of your firm to describe all the different things that you do for people is the same thing we were just talking about with sort of the Venn diagram is we can have a definition for what Bookkeeping 2 is. And the whole team internally, this isn't language that I use externally. This is language I only use internally. The whole team knows what bookkeeping two means, so that the only things you need to define for that specific client's engagement are anything that deviate from whatever the default is for bookkeeping too. So we have this sort of naming convention that is the default. And you'll find that once you finally have a naming convention for that sort of thing, your projects for the first time start trending to be more similar rather than being different. Because. Because if you don't have a language for how we do payroll, how we do retirement benefit management as part of a payroll service, if we don't have a language for all these different things, then everybody's just kind of going to shoot for the hip or go with whatever the client recommends, as opposed to. We're like, here's all the different services that we do and the different levels of each of those services. And then those get rolled up into packages that are presented externally to the client. But internally, any package we sell the client is simply a collection of services, and our team knows how those services get done. And if there's anything different for that specific client, then it's just a modification of the default rather than something that's bespoke from scratch. Bespoke. Bespoke. I don't know where the emphasis belongs there. I'll put a couple of resources actually in the show notes. If that's a new concept for you, the service library. I'll link probably the best video we have on that subject because that's a very big unlock in terms of how you get work out the door more efficiently. But also don't become overly reliant upon like your most scarce professional staff. That video's got 16,000 views. Land O Lakes. This is why I'm so bullish on micro niches and like realizing that we can actually run our accounting firms for a very, very small, very specific type of person. Because it just kind of blows your mind when the Internet gives you more reach. You're always amazed at how many people out there have have that problem or that common interest or whatever it is on the subject of. So the second test was what percentage of your SOPs are client specific. I got a very kind note from a listener who's run accounting firms for decades and they're in the process of retiring. And they went through a recent kind of the hour long masterclass that we did on the main YouTube channel and said that they realized that the way that they had always documented things in their firm was, was like simply documenting what every single person does on every single engagement. Not documenting with the intent of bringing things to be more similar and to centralize more of the work. And they anyways wrote me a super nice note and they're like man, I'm just retiring. But this totally inspires me to kind of build another firm from scratch a very different way. This is how I took like it was a 1800 client firm that I owned that was 80 years old and had every. I mean it was the collection of like I think there had been almost 20 partners in the history of this firm. And so all the, all the clients of the firm were a collection of just all these past personalities that had their own taste for doing things differently. If you've ever, have ever found yourself in a situation where it just feels impossible to get everybody swimming in the same direction. That's the beauty of thinking through it this way in my mind is your job is to baby step the whole bus to something better. And it's not going to happen overnight. But when you have the vernacular, things can start trending to be more similar. But then the holy grail is when we can get to question number three here. Do you have team members who do everything for everyone or do you have functional teams that just crank on a specific thing? Pre accounting, what we talked about is a really good example of that being able to have a small team of admins that just handle all of the information gathering for that. Easiest example of this on the tax side is 1040 intake. This is done wildly differently by different firms these days. From firms who still mail out paper organizers to firms who digitally send like the old fashioned organizers from our tax software to folks using the new crop of tax intake tools which are very, very good. Stanford Tax, Sorben, Truss, probably the leaders here. But how that intake process gets done. And when I say intake process, I mean basically everything up to having all of the information that you think you need according to the pro forma stuff. So basically everything that you would have needed last year. You don't want your professional staff even picking up the project until you have all that stuff, right? Like we all know the starty stoppy problem, how much time you waste picking up and putting down a tax return six times. Some firms, they will have CPAs, they will have the relationship managers which are oftentimes like the managers or the partners in the firm. They will have those people overseeing gathering information from the client before the tax return prep can even start. While you have other firms who are exclusively using either admins or like client concierge type non professional staff and software to get the same job done. Exact same work being done by admins instead of your most senior people. This episode is brought to you in part by cloud accountant staffing who helps you hire staff come work for your accounting firm. But they live in the Philippines. I did at my firm. My last four hires were in the Philippines. If you listen to the podcast, you know this by now. But when you're getting inundated with like all sorts of offshore options every single day, how do you know what the right one is? Huh? Well, I can tell you for one Cloud accountant staffing, we partnered with them because I actually know a bunch of firms that have had a very good experience with them, but they also used to be an accounting firm, so they get it, man. Now, another reason we're heading into conference season, cloud accountant staffing. They're actually going to be out at a whole bunch of the big accounting conferences, same ones that I'm going to be at. Which means, man, they're, they're part of the zeitgeist. They're out there jamming with accountants, hanging out. They get what's going on and they know about the new tax bill. They're in the thick of it, man. And I want that with the people that I partner with, not that random weirdo that just sends me a LinkedIn DM. Okay, that's not the move. If you've never hired in the Philippines before, you're gonna have a bunch of embarrassing questions they can answer em for you. You got nothing to lose. To learn more, check out the link down in the show Notes this episode is sponsored in part by Finn Daily. Did you know? Here's some pretty good Jason on firm's lore. Did you know I once founded and sold a second SaaS app? I did. True story, it's the app that is the sponsor of this video, this podcast. Where am I right now? The app was Finn Daily. Let me tell you all about it because it was after it was my brain baby. So here's the thing. My firm got into doing like cash advisory work and cash reporting for clients where we'd send them these reports every week or every day to kind of show them like that very short term sort of upcoming cash situation, like everything leading up to the next pay run and all that. So we'd send these emails that were kind of sort of templated, but it was like a manual thing of pulling together all this different information every single time. So I built Fin Daily to be almost like a templated email platform where you just pull in variables from accounting apps from like banking connections, all that. So imagine drafting an email template, but inside of that template having placeholders for upcoming bills from the accounting file for the credit card balance, all these different variables and it pulls those values right before it sends the email. Now the team now has built it out to do a bunch more stuff, like a bit of math to roll up several figures so that what it presents in the emails is like the total connecting multiple different accounting files so that all that stuff is piping into like one, one email summary. Super, super cool. Frankly I'm still in love with it. Like the whole concept of just this automated email that pulls in live data at send time and then goes out to a bunch of stakeholders that your client could go to you. But the whole premise is it's like a super connected email template. You could use the same one with all your clients, different ones with different clients, but just think like you got a client with a bunch of entities, how you can roll all that up into an unbelievably good digest to send them every single day, every single week. And the reason I built it, clients will pay really, really good for this. It's a super useful service. Anyways, learn more about Finn Daily. Check out the link down in the show notes now if you want to take that Even further with 1040 Prep, we talked about like what are the things that all returns have in common? Government forms. For the same reason that we probably shouldn't have our professional staff be organizing and tracking down all those documents. Do you really need your professional staff? I don't know. Annotating a W2 work paper and entering it into the tax software? Almost certainly not. That's not a hard thing for another person to learn how to do. And you'll actually find that a really sneaky benefit of trying to build these functional teams that will handle like just part of the process that all of your engagements share. A sneaky benefit of this is you're giving this work to lower skilled people. And it is work that is beneath the professional staff who normally do it and not a good use of their time. But that same work is an opportunity for these other folks. And before you know it, these folks start looking and acting a lot like tax preparers and a lot like bookkeepers because they've done this stuff a hundred times in the, in the. The evolution of sort of the org chart in the different parts of my firm, from the tax firm to the cast practice. Let's take the cast practice for example. Cause that one grew from zero to uh, I don't know, 10 or 12 people. In the beginning it was just solo people like cranking on their own clients. Then it evolved into pods where you had junior folks supporting more senior folks who took on more of a responsibility of managing the client. But the next evolution after that was the development of functional teams that operated alongside those pods. And so a functional team for example, could be a group of people that are responsible for. In our case we had a functional team for bill pay. The folks in the pods would handle more of the client facing stuff. They actually handled an internal approval on the bill pay process as well. They would be more like sort of the client facing relationship managers and then sort of handle everything that falls through the cracks. While the functional teams were doing bookkeeping, like getting it up to review, basically they were doing bill pay according to like all the different ways that we would agree to do bill pay for clients. And so you had a team of people whose job it was to figure out what's the most efficient way we can do bookkeeping across all of our clients. What's the most efficient way we can get bill paid done across all of our clients. And that was all those people worked on, all they cranked on. And that was so, so much more efficient. And stuff comes together after the month end so much faster when that's all they're Cranking on pre counting as well. I guess we didn't talk about that. And if you compare that to the alternative kind of the default in most firms for your professional staff, who are the most time limited and most distracted because clients are calling, they're fielding emails, all this stuff going on, those functional teams got that work done so much faster at a lower level of expertise than your senior folks because they could just focus on that. Now, depending on where you're at right now, that might sound really hard or maybe even unrealistic to get to. And your mind immediately jumps to all the reasons why that won't work. Why will that not work for, you know, entity prep and sort of all these different things. I could give you a big long example of, you know, who's the person cleaning up the books before it goes into entity tax prep? And does that really need to be a tax pro? Who's the person running payroll for each of your accounting engagements? Does that really need to be like the senior accountant? A hundred different examples of this and our mind immediately jumps to all the reasons why it won't work. But like so many other things, like, this is a learned skill, like something that your organization has to like, baby step into before you get to the really cool, the really impressive version. But it is such an investment worth making like that. To me, that's actually what systematization means. And the benefits are greater output and less reliance upon expertise. But I can tell you for most people, the closest they've gotten to this is everyone's still just kind of doing whatever, but recording looms or making process documents for that, whatever that they do, which might be better than nothing, but the goal ought to be how do we actually line up more of these engagements to be more similar. And I can tell you quite possibly the biggest thing for your firm may be developing that, that sort of internal service library. And the video that I put in the show notes will walk you through how to do that. One of the biggest assets we ever gave away was a huge like 19 service library template spreadsheet thing. It'll, it would make sense if you watch the video, but once you've defined what you're willing to do for people more explicitly, then not only do your existing projects start looking more similar, every new project you take in, it fits a whole lot nicer into that framework. And it, like in my firm, it was a big firm, we made a lot of different promises to people. And so I had every reason to believe that that was impossible because I can't get the partners to agree or this or that. But the only goal here is to gradually make things more similar. So in the beginning, that may be centralizing 10% of the work. Great job. That's more than 0% of the work down the road. That may mean that like 80% of what you do for your clients is the same and can be moved to centralized teams. That's awesome. But it takes a whole bunch of steps to get there. And where you ultimately set up camp. If you see yourself as a white glove firm, which we very much did, we did all sorts of bespoke things, like we would go out to people's houses and like do more kind of concierge hands on stuff. But even within that, there was a huge percentage of those engagements that were still identical. So we could build systems for as much of the stuff that was in common as possible while still leaving space for doing things in customized ways to sort of like meet that client where they were at. So how far you ultimately take that, it probably boils down to the positioning of your firm and how like turnkey automated you want to be versus how wide glove you can be. But I would, I would challenge you, as most of us would say. Honestly, I think most of us say we're white glove firms because we don't systematize. It's as much the tail wagging the dog as it is like maybe an intentional decision to be white glove. But regardless of like how much you will tailor stuff for clients, there's a tremendous amount that can be centralized and made just much, much more efficient. So the three questions, the three things to consider. How much overlap have you defined in the work you do for your clients? Number two, what percentage of your SOPs are client specific? If you pulled an SOP for a client right now, does that walk through 100% of how that thing gets done? Or is it only the 50% that is specific to that client? And the other 50%, you have an SOP that defines how that work is done for all clients. And then number three, do you have team members that do everything for everyone, or do you have functional teams that can just crank on a very specific part of these engagements? That's how I did it in my firm. It's. It's the most logical progression that I can see in taking very abstract things and making them more systematized. But if you've had success with this or even traps to avoid, drop that stuff down in the comments, I'd love to hear about it. If you're new here, welcome we do this on a video podcast. We do this on an audio feed as well. We whatever feed you're on, you'll always find the link to the other one in the show notes and we are in peak conference season right now, buddy boy, which means that I'm coming to a city near you as you listen to this. I'm actually in Vegas at AICPA Engage, but next after that, June 22nd in Orlando at Scaling New Heights. If you're at the conference, I'm going to be running a meetup at the Expo Hall. Would love to see you there. Four more events that we are so close to be being able to announce, all happening in July in L A, Denver, Chicago and Atlanta. Head over to jason on firms.com to see if we've got that up yet. That that landing page is kind of the home for where is everywhere that I'm going to be and how do you book tickets to be there. Our kind of North Star KPI honestly now is like getting connected with more people, getting folks out to in person events. As fun as this stuff is hanging on the pod and all that, man, nothing beats like the in person experience. So I'd love to see you in person soon. I'll catch you the next one. Sa.