107. Infinite Banking Is Like Real Estate Investing | Martin Kuev

You are listening to the Wealth Without Bay Street Podcast, a Canadian guide to building dependable wealth. Join your hosts, Richard Canfield and Jason Lowe as they unlock the secrets to creating financial peace of mind in an uncertain world. Discover the strategies and mindsets to a financial future that you can bank on.

Three pillars of wealth. Providing monthly income, growing long term wealth. We are blessed to be joined today with Martin Kuev.

And Martin, our audience is in for a real treat to be here with you today. And we're joined of course by Richard Canfield, who's hailing from Chilliwack, bc, otherwise known as the wac. And Martin is hailing from Ontario and I'm hailing from Alberta. So we've pretty much got most of Canada covered. And I'm super excited today because Martin, so he's been investing in real estate for the past decade and brought along with him to this experience of real estate investing and wealth creation. Just an abundance of experience in a variety of leadership capacities in Fortune 500 companies which, speaking from firsthand experience, you can gain a lot of really amazing transferable skill sets. And so we're really excited to be talking to you today. Welcome to the show, Martin.

Great, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys today.

Curious to know about why real estate, what, what compelled you more than a decade ago to kind of set out on this path? Because we all know, we hear about real estate being a great way of providing passive income and building that. So take us back to the beginning of your journey. What compelled you to get started?

Sure. Within real estate investment for me was I sort of like anybody else in real estate, you always have somebody popping something in your ear saying, hey, real estate is a great investment. And, and you know, I was one of those people and I thought, hey, this could be a good investment. I had no idea why, I had no idea how. I had, my, my parents are immigrants to the, to the country. They, they came from the Czech Republic and we had her family come and they were basically providing for kids. I'm one of three siblings and we had other families that came here and the minute they got here, they bought assets, they bought real estate. And I was blessed to have kind of, kind of like rich dad, poor dad in terms of you. You see a comparison between someone who comes here and provides for their family and someone who comes here and maybe delays that gratification a little bit and buys assets. So I knew they did well in real estate. I didn't really know how and I always, it was Always this thing in the back of my head going, I think this is something I want to learn more about. And I'll be quite honest, it probably took me decades before I actually sat down and learn a little bit more about it. And I have a corporate background. I did what society told me to do, went my business degree, I worked for Coke, Nestle Craft and senior executive leadership roles. And once I sat down and learned about real estate, and that's not just learning myself on the Internet, I got coaching, I got mentoring, I signed up and paid thousands of dollars for that coaching and really understand what real estate could do. And it wasn't just most people just look at real estate like this appreciation button, and it's basically, it goes up, I'm going to make money, goes down and lose money. And that's, you know, a very tip of the iceberg type mentality. And real estate is one of those vehicles that allows you to profit in many, many different ways, not just one. It's not just that lever of, hey, it's going to go up in value, it's going to go down in value. It is essentially buying a business in a box. If that business in a box could sustain itself on a month to month basis, hey, that is something I'd like to, to learn more about. And in the long term, if that, if that thing sustains itself and also appreciates in value, hey, you got much more of my attention now. And once I start to sit down and learn more about it, I went, look, there's a lot here that, that is more than just that just meets the eye. And once you dive in, you really realize the power it can do. And, you know, I'm living proof of it, just changing my life and my net worth and not just my life, but my children's lives as well.

That's amazing.

Well, and I love how, you know, you mentioned that there's multiple, you know, potential profit centers. It's not all about appreciation. And, you know, there's, there's cash flow and of course there's how do you generate and create that cash flow? And then if you dive even deeper, there's multiple ways in which you can go about creating those cash flows. I mean, then you start segmenting from the broad category of real estate into, okay, are we into the, you know, are we doing room rentals? Are we doing suite properties? Are we looking at Airbnb units? Are we, is there extra space underutilized that we can add another, can we put a garden suite out here in the backyard? Is it Applicable for that. Can we, can we go and rent the garage out separately as storage space? So you have all these other components that can get layered on top of that, that primary bucket. You know, we've got this giant category of real estate investment. And underneath it, it's just this wide swath of additional opportunities within, I think is kind of what you're alluding to, Martin, if I've got you correct.

It was absolutely. And you hit it on the head in terms of, you know, there's so much out there that you, there's a lot of gravies or cherries on the pie that you have within real estate that you don't even need. You don't need the long term cash flow, you don't need a lot of those things that real estate can have. You don't even need the appreciation for that.

Better.

I do apologize. What I was, I was basically saying was, in real estate is you have many different avenues and, you know, appreciation is just one of those. But you're not married to any one of those. The cherry in the pie within real estate is that you could have a garden suite, you could do Airbnb, you could do many, many other aspects, but that's not the number one reason you get into real estate. You get into real estate for the cash flow and you want to mitigate that risk. All those other things are just that gravy that can happen in many forms.

One, on your real estate journey, so recently you were introduced to, you came upon the process of becoming your own banker, the infinite banking concept. And what, what resonated with you there? Looking at it through the lens of, you know, an active real estate investor. We also know that you're actively engaged in the, the stock market, but from a different perspective, which we'll, we'll touch on. And so what, what resonated with you when you looked at it through that lens of a real estate investment?

And it's funny, life insurance, everyone knows about life insurance, everyone's heard about life insurance, and it's very similar. Real estate is. Has it presented to you in the way that you'll actually identify with it? Because when I looked at life insurance for the vast majority of my life, it was always conscious around that. What is that? Death benefit.

Right. And so when you think about the moment that you were introduced to this process and you described that, you know, life insurance, if it's explained in a way that you, that resonates with you outside of the most common understanding that life insurance does come along with a death Benefit that's, you know, going to show up when it's needed the most. But take us through looking through the eyes of the lens of a real estate investor. What resonated with you when you were introduced to, to the process?

Sure. And I, I find a lot of similarities in that. And I look at the death benefit is sim. Very similar to appreciation. You're not getting into it for the death benefit and you don't need to. That's just gravy on top. That is going to be there no matter what. What really resonated with me in terms of the banking concept was treating life insurance as an asset and real estate's an asset. Life insurance, they're essentially, they allow you to capitalize yourself, they allow you to grow your net worth, they allow you to grow your wealth from the short and long term. So in terms of the similarities that I have, I put appreciation over here and if I put the death benefit on this side, those are equal and they're going to, you're going to have those on both ends. But what is really similar that if you treat them both as an asset class, you know, if I have a million dollar policy of life insurance, if I have a million dollars in real estate, they essentially are very similar to me. I can borrow against my life insurance policy, I can borrow against my, my real estate as collateral to go out and reinvest that capital. And you talk about pure forms of investment, how can I redeploy capital? And that's the biggest windfall I find and anybody new and getting an investing is how can I take money out of one investment, redeploy it somewhere else. And both infinite bank concept as well as real estate, give me that option to redeploy that capital but still maintain my growth within that asset.

Right? Yeah, that's the key. Without interrupting the growth of the asset that you're using as collateral.

Very true.

To multiply, you don't have a lot.

Of options out there that give you that ability. Even within traditional stock market trading, you don't have that. You have to take your money out, put somewhere else and it becomes a new investment. With here, it's essentially like you're borrowing from yourself. You still control that large pie at the end, but you can redeploy those funds and it comes down to what is your physical investment out of your own pocket. And that's how we measure roi. We measure that in real estate is if I put 20, $20,000 on a, on a, on a home, it's $100,000 home. If the market goes up 5%, you're going to see markets going up 5% in the media, but you actually made 25% of your money because you only put $20,000 down in $100,000 home. So you have to compare apples to apples in terms of what did you actually spend on that. So if I look at the infinite banking concepts, the same thing if you get to the point of, I'm just assuming all your listeners understand the concept is once you're out there for 10 years and your dividends start paying off that policy now you look at the end and what does the end look like when you actually do pass away? How much money did you put in and how much money are you going to utilize in your lifetime and be able to set aside for your beneficiaries? And that's the key to me is it's kind of like you're, you're putting in pennies on the dollar for the benefit that's going to come out on that.

Very.

I like your train of thought and I think it's a really important perspective because we have a lot of real estate investors that, that are clients and that do tune in, that listen to the podcast and, and people who are exploring this concept. I think, because you know, these, these two things are so similar as asset classes that exist. They are almost on parallel tracks and they have very clear similarities to them. What, what's really unique about what you identified is that, you know, if you think about a, you know, a long term buy and hold property, you put your 20% down. It's kind of like a business, you know, like you identified it's a business and you know, it might take, let's say, you know, assuming you're not doing a ton of rental vent renovation improvements or whatever. Let's say it takes you five, six or seven years for a typical market. Maybe not like the current Ontario real estate market, but like for a typical market to rise that property up. Plus you got some mortgage pay down over the period. So that's going up, mortgages coming down, you got that split in the middle, the equity where you might be in a position that you could now go and readvance collateral and pull out your original capital, your original down payment, you can keep that property, but now you've exited all your original dollars. So you're in a position where you basically have a free property because you've just reset everything, right? And you can go take that capital and go and apply it into the next deal. That same premise applies in cash value insurance, the way that we structure it for the process of becoming your own banker. And so very similarly, in a very similar period of time, you could have access to every single dollar that you contributed to that program. You still have it, it's still growing and you can go, you basically have a free, a free asset that continues to accumulate every single day. That air enters your lungs and you're alive on planet Earth. That can't be stopped by any marketplace.

Very, very true. And that's, that's what I, I always tell, like new people starting out via real estate investing, Internet banking, it doesn't matter. It's, there is a way to get infinite roi. And once you get paid back from your investment and your investment is still there making proceeds for you, that essentially is infinite roi. And people look at that and that's sometimes a mental barrier, hey, this is just too good to be true. And you know, there's a quote from Richard Carlson, it says, you know, there's a lot of opportunities that are lost because people just come up with the same, hey, that's too good to be true. And they don't dig deeper into it. And real estate, infinite banking and life insurance are two of those things in my life that, hey, they were around more than 20 years ago, I didn't pay them nearly enough attention as they should have.

It's very, very good insight and advice too to share with people because it, when you think about how to, how to create and build wealth and real estate, of course, being.

Around since Jesus was a cowboy and so many people wondering, how do I get started if I'm, if I'm interested in investing in real estate and where do I go? And you mentioned earlier about having a coach, having a mentor, having perhaps multiple coaches and mentors that you sought out advice from and you know, essentially modeled what they coached you and mentored you to do. The very same framework applies to the process of becoming your own banker. The infinite banking concept and working with a good coach, somebody who's thoroughly familiar with the tool, how to implement the process, can demonstrate to you that they actually do this in their own life. And they can show you that they have proficiency at it and that they know what they're doing. Because there are well north of a hundred thousand life license advisors in our country who can sell you a life insurance policy. There are also, I would wager, tens of thousands of Realtors who can sell you a piece of real estate. And so it's, it's all about having the right coaching and the right mentoring. Because it's not just about the transaction, it's about everything that happens after that. Because that's your plan. It's to, it's, it's a long term wealth creation plan. And so I just loved how you expressed earlier that that was part of your journey in real estate and now it's a part of your journey in the process of becoming your own banker as well.

It is. And it's equally as important, I would say, you know, I look at them and I look at what's my active income, how going to put bread on the table today and what's going to be for later on in my life as well as my children's lives. And now I look at them and it's almost like give a full package in terms of, hey, I'm comfortable today. I'm going to have a very good life today. Also. I'm gonna have a very good luck tomorrow when I, when I choose to retire and not have to work. And my children are off to a really, really good start as well.

That's really interesting because you, you identified before we hit the record button that you have, you have three young daughters, I believe at home is what you'd identify. And, and so I'm curious just to kind of think you, you talked about 20 years ago, you know, where you're at and being aware of real estate but not having that time committed into the learning process yet. You know, if we could jump into a time machine here and we could zip back 20 years ago to Martin's, you know, probably still in the corporate world life at that stage, and you were about to embark and start digging more into the real estate industry, if you also had the infinite banking concept and your awareness of it show up at a similar timeframe, if you had the way you've embraced it now, today as we speak, had you done so back then, when you were in that phase of your journey, what do you think would be different? How would you, if you were talking to a real estate investor, a younger Martin showed up at your door looking for mentorship and coaching right now, today, what would you help them learn and understand about now? Being able to embrace these real estate principles and ideas and the principles of Nelson Nash and the infinite banking concept and blending those things together, what would you share with them?

It's funny that you ask that because we always ask, what is the biggest regret of real estate investors? And there's two of them. One is, Dan, am I sold by property? And the other one is, why didn't I start sooner. And I think the second one is really one that really resonates with infinite banking. I look back and I would say I would have, I would have done them in parallel, in tandem, because as with real estate, the longer you are and the earlier you start, you start, it's like you're not trying to time the market, you want time in the market. And that's the same thing with, with infinite banking is if you start sooner, you're going to see that grow and grow and grow. And each year over year, your base is bigger and bigger and bigger. So I looked at that and I looked at life insurance many years ago, and I always looked at what is the cash outlay going to be for me on a yearly basis. And then I would be, oh, that's a big, big number. I'd rather invest that somewhere and be happy within my life. And I didn't understand the whole bank concept going, well, wait a minute, if I put that in, I can actually borrow against that in three or four years time. And if I'm paying interest, I'd rather pay interest to myself rather than a bank. And that's, that's where you go down the rabbit hole and you really learn about it and you can really utilize it within your own life rather than, hey, I'm just getting a life insurance policy for the death benefit now. If I had the, the knowledge that I knew now back then, I would completely do them in, in, in, in tandem alongside each other.

Wow, that's great to hear. And you know, there's, there's no, there's absolutely no downside to doing that in tandem. You know, there could be, you know, lost opportunity cost in terms of time by, by not doing it in tandem. And so it's, we, we always talk about, and, and Martin, you've heard us say this many times, is that the process of becoming your own banker is not an either or because the process is not a product deciding when to purchase a life insurance contract while the contract is a product, but the implementation of the process. Because banking goes on no matter what is happening in the economy, the real estate cycle, the stock market, the process of banking goes on no matter what. The question always is who's controlling that function as it relates to whatever it is you're planning to finance or how you go about financing those things in your life. And so what you've done by adding this to your journey of wealth creation is that you're improving it. You've immediately improved your situation by embracing this process. And that Brings me to the third of what I referred to before the show, Martin's pillars. And so the third one being the, your involvement in stocks and maybe just share for the benefit of our viewers and listeners. So what are you up to there?

Sure. Well, at first, first of all, I'm an entrepreneur at heart and I, even though I have 20 years within the corporate world, I always had that entrepreneurial bug. And everyone has this thought that entrepreneurs are very risky. And it's funny, when I quit my job, everybody thought to go to real estate investment. You're risky, you're crazy. And it's kind of funny. The opposite is actually true. Entrepreneurs are typically very risk averse and they choose very wisely. Where are they going to put that money? It's not going to be a knee jerk decision because they got a lot more riding on it now if they especially they don't have a job.

Right.

So if I go down to the stocks and, and you know a paraphrase from a friend, fellow real estate investor, he goes, every real estate investor is just a failed stock trader. I was killed by the dot com boom. I was killed by a lot of things within the, the, the mutual fund world and I did what society told me to do. I had to look at things from a different light. It goes back to mindset and how you look at things. And I looked at not just buying stock and holding it and then trying to buy at a great price and then sell it in a higher price. I looked at it like a business. And stock options trading is very, very different. You're looking at very much like an insurance company. You're on the other side of the coin. So if you're basically betting on something that has a very low probability of happening. And I talk about risk and probability a lot and fear is no, sorry, risk is just a problem. But I talk about fear versus risk and fear is in your own head. Fear is going to stop you in your tracks. Get cool. Risk in its lowest common denominator is just a probability and it comes down to what is the likelihood of that happening, good or bad. So within being like an insurance company, I'm not going to get into what the strategy is, but essentially you're going jupy to a contract going, I don't think it's going to go down to a certain point. So for me I'm going to get paid for that option contract. And it is, there's a little bit of complexity to the strategy but essentially what it comes down to is there's a low Probability for me to not have a good outcome for me, I'm going to have a good outcome. If the market has a bit of a buffer going down, I'm going to have a great outcome. If it stays the same, we're going to have a great outcome. If it goes up, I just limit my downside. I'm going to hit singles rather than home runs. And typically when someone comes out into real estate investing or they want to change their lives, they want to win a lottery, they want something to happen overnight and that's not going to happen. And you know, the pill, we can say Martin pillage is kind of funny. These are just the things that I gravitate to and everything comes down to how can I mitigate that risk and get the maximum return out of that. And when I look at real estate and we look at life insurance and I look at like stock options trading, they mesh each other and they really blend together quite well, at least for me. And I hope for a lot of other people if they, if they actually learn about each one of those individually themselves. But you do have to learn about each one before you go into another one. So it does come down education. And these are things that have been around a long time and unfortunately many of us do have an opinion about them already. You know, if you talk to someone about real estate and they got burned before, they're never going to touch it again because they got burned. And we have these limiting beliefs in our mind. I was one of those limiting beliefs with life insurance, with real estate before, and it took me 20 years to change that in my own head. And I find sometimes we are our biggest challenge within our own selves. And I know I wasn't, I know a lot of people that I work with, they gotta get past that fear, open up their mind to those things. And once you validate something before it's wrong, but learn about it before you basically say no to it is what I live by.

I love the mindset talk because it's perfectly in alignment with what we learned from Nelson. Nelson would always say it's all about how you think. It's all about how you think. And you've really identified that. And so thank you for sharing it. And I really like your, your very kind of tight knit description of, you know, your, your option trading situation and helping to mitigate your risk along the way is really the, the format you're, you're doing that and you're choosing that strategy because you can look at it from a business vantage point and you can assess the probabilities because you have specialized knowledge. You went and got training, mentorship, coaching. You invested in. You. First Martin got the investment, then Martin put in the time, which is an investment, investment of time in the learning that you were able to get the practice to be able to become proficient. And what's cool is the way that you identified. I think, you know that you're always, you're just trying to get singles, you're not trying to hit home runs. You know, it's kind of like the money, the movie money ball. And that's, that's, it's all, it's all about getting on base. And that's how they were able to, you know, that whole, it literally changed the game of baseball, you know, in that, in that format. So really, I think what you're identifying is how the importance of just being able to get on base. If you do that repeatedly and enough times, the end result is you score a lot of homework, you score, you, you get a lot of runs, you get a lot of points. And that's, that's a really good point. I think that you've identified and you know, infinite banking and the participating insurance that we utilize as the vehicle, as the, as the engine running that, that component is, is very similar. The, the thing is that when you pay a premium, you're automatically getting on base. And every single year that that premium goes in, you're getting on base. And it just that over time you're scoring more and more runs for the same premium that you put in.

Very.

And if you, and if you get a hit in the temple with an errant baseball and it doesn't work out well for you.

Then you've got a big, a big desk that shows up.

Well, it's interesting, you know, how you've. From a mindset shift how you've really, you, you've taken on activity to build your wealth that fits within your criteria of mitigate risk and probabilities. What are these outcomes going to be? Does that work well for me? How can I mitigate risk? How can I create the best probable outcomes? Those are the paths that you chose to, to go down and with, you know, real estate, real estate as rich, you and I, having been Reign members, you know, for several years and surrounded by some really, really talented people in the realm of real estate and that it goes through these, you know, for a lack of better description, repeated cycles that tend to happen over and over and over again. So what's your sense of where, you know, the, the outlook and Again, we caveat this. This is not to provide real estate investment advice. This is not to make recommendations on what you should do as it relates to your own ambitions with real estate. This is just purely conversational. But what do you, what's your outlook on what's happening in the real estate market today, maybe in your backyard?

Yeah, good, good question. I'm glad you put that preface out there, because if anybody comes out and tells you what the real estate market is going to do, no one has that crystal ball. So it all comes down to what is that opinion going to be. And I make my decisions based on economics. And, you know, if you look at me and stock options trading, it comes down to probabilities. I look at real estate. You know, I'm a sports guy. So I have another analys. I go here, Wayne Gretzky used to say, I don't go to where the puck is, I go to where the puck is going to be. And very, very true within real estate. And if I look at Ontario, and that's part of the market, and I know best of the Golden Horseshoe and what are the key things that I look at? I look at population growth, we have immigration that is double per capita in the United States going, is that going to, they turn that off now we're just coming out of a pandemic. But if you go and just Google CMHC or Statistics Canada, you're going to see their aspirations over the next 10 years are just going to continue that momentum. And the vast majority of those people coming into Ontario, or even if they don't, they're the, a good portion of those come in and we're going to see population continue to go up. If they turn that tap off, I'd probably question, okay, is that where's that future demand going to come from? The other thing is, within the where, where we live, there's a finite amount of land. We have a, we have the largest green belt in the world and we're surrounded by water on the other side, as people continue to come in, you see the headlines out there. I can't find rentals, I can't find properties. That's going to continue, in my opinion, just because we're not building fast enough to support the population that's coming in, right? And look, and then the last one I look at is, is transportation. Look at the go train. The go train is expanded. Toronto is that hub, but no longer is Toronto, just Toronto. Toronto is Toronto, the GTA and all the outskirts around that. It's just growing and Growing and growing. If you talk to me 20 years ago, I probably would have said Mississauga's way outside of Toronto, how it's all part of it. And now you go down to an, I look at real estate and look at, you know, what I invest in Burlington. And I apologize if you have viewers across the country. Just make an analogy of, you know, Burlington, the average home price is, is a million dollars. 10 minutes away down the street, Hamilton, just a little bit further out, and you can buy properties for half the price. Right. And if I look at it in invest from an investment mindset, where am I going to get the best bang for my buck? And then secondly, that in 10 years from now, how is that city going to look like? And that's where you look at the economics and go, hey, am I good to park my money in there today? But wait a minute, down the road when they're building all this infrastructure, and if you look at the official plan of any one of those cities we invest in, typically it's going to be Hamilton, the Niagara corridor or the other side, which the Durham corridor. In the Durham region, where are they going to be in the next 10 to 20 years? They're spending a lot of money on infrastructure, transportation or the population that's going to be coming in in droves over the next several decades. So if I'm not a betting man, I don't bet on appreciation, but I think if you bet against it, you may be just missing out on something. Wow.

Very, very good, very good points.

One thing I think is interesting too, in that sector, I mean, all that is within a very reasonable drive to the border, the U.S. border. And I don't know the exact statistic, but I believe there's something to the effect of 90% of the Canadian population lives within about 100 miles of the U.S. border. And you know, so you, you're identifying a limitation on the physical land space that's available that isn't already owned or being used for farming or whatever. Wineries, a lot of wineries out in that area, you know, a lot. Why aren't people going further north? Well, it gets harder to live the further north you get. You know, there might be some more space out there, but there isn't as many resources, there isn't as much infrastructure that's available, I think is the, is the one of the keys that you're identifying. So especially for a lot of people immigrating to Canada for the first time, most people have heard that Canada might be cold and they want to Live probably in a southern location close to the border. So I myself made that, made that journey not that long. That's one of the things that brought me out to Chilliwack was the fact that I could shift from a bit more of a northern climate over to some that something that's very close to the border. I also, I literally can look out my window and see the mountain range, which is basically Washington state. And you know, it's one of the warmest climates, you know, year round in the country. So that was one of my deciding factors. Similarly here we're seeing a large uptick in the real estate market because of people moving from the larger centers of, you know, Vancouver and everything out to here in a smaller marketplace. So it is very interesting when you consider all those factors. And of course there's a lot of people with large farms and those farms are, you know, a lot of, a lot of people don't want to maintain the family generational track is starting to shift away from those farmlands, staying within the family. And so that's creating possible opportunities for development as well.

Very true. Yep, good point. And you hit on those things. That's what we look at is what is that scarcity going to be in terms of land. And you know, people don't want to move forward, moving forward north. But also there's government constraints too. They can build on certain areas within Ontario as well. And that's why you see from a government perspective, I don't want to get political on you, but they're going to want to, they want to increase density rather than have people spread out. An urban sprawl.

Yeah, they want to go up.

Yeah. Because that, that, that makes the tax dollar that much more efficient. So even if they want to prevent that, they'd rather you build up than out. So you do have much more constraint on that. And I think that's going to just continue in terms of the scarcity of land and how, how valuable that land does become, especially within the, the greater golden ocean.

Awesome. Tell us what you would share with listeners who get, who've stumbled upon this video. They were on the youtubes and they came across this video. They've heard Martin talk and they're, they're on their journey of learning and they're obviously impressed by the process of becoming your own banker. Otherwise YouTube wouldn't have fed this video to their, to their feed. But what would, what would you say to folks who are early in their journey of learning? What advice would you give them?

I'd say the Biggest one is the thing that I really grasp on is become a sponge. And, you know, if I look back and I was very typical, you know, society told me to go down a certain path and I went down that path and I did well. I had a comfortable job, I had executive little positions. I left six year paying salaries to go into real estate investment. If I look back on that and if I close myself off to all those other things, I wouldn't be where I am today. And, you know, to me, it doesn't come down to how much more money do I have today, it's how much more freedom do I have. You know, you mentioned Richard, I talk about my kids. They're my wife. I. I'm there for drop off, I'm there for pickup. I'm there in their lives, and I'm a constant staple within their lives. I don't know if I would have had that before, but if I go back to how did I get that? That came up here and it switched in the mindset and I had to be open to that. So I'd say not just become a sponge, but be open to things, not just what society has told you and have that limiting belief and just coming out there and going, you know, I look at, I talk about living beliefs a lot. It's like if I go back to my high school days and go, I'm not gonna ask that girl out because I know she's gonna say no. And then you find out 10 years later, hey, I was interested in you too. And there's so many stories of that, but we just make the decision in our head before we go down that path. And so, you know, I don't want to go off on a tangent, but I'd say become a sponge. Learn, but also be open to learning to things that you may have thought. You may have already put a thought in your head that, hey, those are not good paths to go down. They may very well be good paths to go down. You just need reassurance. And if I go back to my start of my journey, everyone thought it was crazy. Now I can't tell you how many people from my corporate life, from my personal life, from old childhood friends, call me up and say, hey, I want to get into what you've been doing.

How do I get started?

Yep, that happens. That happens a lot. And you forged a path and that others want to follow. Martin, it was such a pleasure to have you join us on the show, and we're definitely going to have you back because you're you're expanding your three pillars and you've got some exciting things planned for next year that we're, we're going to be collaborating on that. I'm really, really pumped about that. And we'll keep our viewers and listeners in a little bit of suspense there. But what we can say with absolute certainty is that it's going to be amazing and there will be content created, there will be events that people can attend, et cetera. So it's going to be really awesome and just appreciated having you. Thank you for being a guest on our show. And Rich, do you want to take us home?

Absolutely. Really appreciated this part and I think it's great. I love the analogies that we're able to use and through conversation today, I think it's going to really resonate well with so many of our listeners, our existing clients, of course, and the many folks who haven't even yet discovered that we're out here when they get a chance to binge, as we hear frequently that they've been through the podcast episode. So one thing that I really recognize in you and your discussion around and how you like to, you know, you're talking about limiting beliefs, you're talking about how you're taking these lessons from your past and bringing them forward. You're sharing that journey so that other people can learn from it, is that you're really showing up as a hero for others and you're giving them an opportunity to recognize that they can embrace change, a positive change in their life in some way, to do something different, go down a direction that they may not have known was really possible for them. You're opening up a world of possibility by sharing your message, sharing your story. Our question for you is who would you like to be a hero to?

Wow. Well, first of all, thank you for saying that. I'm. I never considered myself a hero for anybody else, but if anybody can get value of it, I'm more than happy to help. I'd say in terms of being a hero for somebody, I look at my life over the last several, over the last decade or even half a decade, and how much of that's changed. The biggest joy I get is when I see somebody else go down that path. And I have had several, like probably several dozen now that have been able to quit their job when they're working with me. That gives me much more fulfillment than going and doing another renovation or going out and doing something else within real estate or money driven. Comes down to that why? And that's why I don't plan or want to retire because I get so much joy out of coming in and sharing what I have and seeing that. So, you know, I wouldn't consider myself a hero. But if I can help somebody get to a point of not having to be reliant on appropriation, then fantastic, because most of us are. We have those. I got a lot of friends that have high paying jobs and unfortunately they have golden handcuffs because I don't know if they can see another way out. And there is another way out that they can have the time with their families as well as the funds to support the lifestyle they want. But sometimes they don't want to be able to go down that path to take it. So when someone takes that leap and takes action and wants to do something, you know, don't look at me a hero, but if you can look at me as someone that has done it and you can do it too, then I'm like, that gives me so much joy.

Wow.

Thank you so much again, Martin. We appreciated having you on. And for all of our viewers and listeners, I'll speak to our viewers on the YouTubes first. If you just look to the playlist that's appeared on your screen. Rich has this magical ability to make playlists appear on your screen and he just did that. And so take a look at the playlist of recommended videos that we would encourage you to tune into so that you can carry on with your journey of learning. And take Martin's advice. You know, be a sponge, be receptive even to learning something new where you may have already defined a belief about something and just be open to learning something new. Our Nelson Nash used to say to us all the time that there's no such thing as having arrived in knowledge. There's always something new to learn. And Martin, we're going to look forward to having you back. And to all of our listeners and viewers, make the rest of your week great. Gentlemen, thank you. Thank you for a great episode today.

Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to the Wealth Without Bay street podcast where your wealth matters. Be sure to check out our social media channels for more great content. Hit subscribe on your favorite podcast player and be sure to rate the show. We definitely appreciate it. And don't forget to share this episode with someone you care about. Join us on the next episode where we continue to uncover the financial tools, strategies and the mindsets that maximize your wealth.