125. Infinite Banking Conversations About Nelson Nash With Tim Yurek

You are listening to the Wealth Without Bay Street Podcast, a Canadian guide to building dependable wealth. Join your hosts, Richard Canfield and Jason Lowe, as they unlock the secrets to creating financial peace of mind in an uncertain world. Discover the strategies and mindsets to a financial future that you can bank on. What exactly is Tier One Capital and how can you be using it? Well, today we are actually joined by Tim Urich, the founder and CEO of Tier One Capital. That's a company with which is a leading national financial consulting firm. Tim's got well over 35 years of knocking it out of the park in this business, and we are excited to have him as an authorized infinite banking practitioner, one of our good friends and colleagues who had the distinct privilege of spending a great deal of time with the. The wonderful R. Nelson Nash. And we always love to have a conversation with Tim because he, he pulls out some great stories about his memories and times with Nelson. So, Tim, thanks for joining us today on the podcast. We're excited to have you.

Yeah, again, it's my pleasure, and I'm grateful to be spending this time with you guys.

Tim, you know, you.

Of.

Of a select few have spent, you know, the most time with Nelson, and your journey goes way back. And so we'd love for you to, you know, maybe share how you caught the message and what inspired you to embrace it and what your journey was like spending all that time with Nelson.

Yeah. So, you know, I've thought about that a lot over the. Excuse me. The past three years now that Nelson has gone and, you know, he.

Had this, this message to deliver, and.

I, as a financial advisor or a financial professional, came across it, and I was struggling to grasp it. So one day, and I think this is similar to stories that other of our colleagues have had. You're trying to figure this out. You're trying to figure this out, and then all of a sudden you say, you know what? I'm going to pick up the phone. And you pick up the phone, and lo and behold, hello, it's Nelson Nash. That's me. You know, and then the conversation starts, and, you know, you're sort of amazed that the guy that wrote, well, this was before the book, so the guy that created this, this concept is actually going to answer his own phone. You know, but as, as we have gotten to know Nelson, that was the kind of person that he was. He was a very man of. Of. Yep. And. But powerful, powerful results. And so I, I called him and was struggling with some questions, and finally I said, well, listen.

What would, what would you charge to come up to Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania from Birmingham just, you know, so I could spend some time with you. And he said, well, you know, I usually put on a seminar for clients. I have a 10 hour seminar. Why don't you invite some clients and we could, you know, do, do this seminar and you know, you and I could have a Q and A and then we'll have some time in between and we can spend and we'll go from there. And so July of 1997, I invited Nelson up to Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania and he and his lovely wife Mary came up and we, you know, he and Mary and my wife and myself, we went out for dinner and of course he did the seminar and the rest, as they say, is history. He had. And it's, it's ironic because right now I'm in the process of moving my office. We're, we're moving to a different location and I've got dozens of boxes of, you know, files and books and et cetera, et cetera. And in the process I cleaned out my original infinite Banking file, which were pre printed handouts. Very well done, I might add. But they were the precursor to chapters of Nelson's book.

Oh my God.

Remember, this was 1997, his book, I don't believe he published until. Was it 2000 or 2001?

2000, yep.

2000.

I believe it. It was 2000. I think it was 2000.

Yeah.

So.

We got, you know, he came up and we just developed a friendship and as time went by, I started having him up regularly. He came up to Wilkes Barre and.

We would usually have him come up in like April and October. And he loved October because of the fall foliage and think, well, it was definitely a compliment. But he, he always commented that the change of weather and the, you know, the, the changing of the, the leaves on the tree was more spectacular, as he said, in Pennsylvania, than it was in New England. And I always, I always took that as a compliment. But did.

He did love the trees?

He sure did.

Oh yeah, absolutely. So like I said, I have him up twice a year. And it was, it was really, it was. I mean, he, he, he got to be very good friends with a lot of my clients. And one guy was in today and we were talking and he was at one of the original Nelson seminars and you know, he was saying like, what a neat man he was. And obviously we are spoiled because we got to spend more time with him than, you know, the average person. But what an impact that man had on my life. And hundreds and hundreds And I would venture to say it's going to be thousands of people when you look at, you know, me dealing with my clients and then them dealing with their children and teaching the principles that Nelson taught me, and it's, it's, it's just a great, it's a great privilege that, that I have, that I was chosen to, to, to be able to deliver this message.

Amen to that. Amen to that. And we, Gosh, yeah, we'd love to see some of those handouts. That, boy, you've got a, you, you have, you can create, you can curate a museum of Nelson artifacts, you know, in that sense, because. Oh, wow. You know, every time we talk to you, something, something new comes up out of your archives of, you know, your time with him. That's amazing.

You know, it's, it's funny. Part of that is because I don't throw anything away, and I get a lot of flack from my daughter who works with me that, you know, that, that I don't throw anything away. And, you know, she would come to me this, especially this week because we're, we're going to go out of town for a week. So on top of the move, we're, we're going on vacation. Long story short, she's standing in front of me with, you know, this file and that file and this piece of paper and that piece of paper. And after about 10 minutes, I have, well, I, I call it decision fatigue. And I just can't, I can't deal with it anymore. So I, I'll end up just saying, okay, you know, let's take a break for about a couple hours, and then we'll, we'll come back to it. But part of the issue is that I, I, I save everything and I, I still have my original notes from Nelson and, you know, from the seminar, and I, I usually take copious notes and man, I'll tell you, that stuff is gold. It really is.

It sure is.

And.

Go ahead, Rich.

What's interesting, I'm curious. You know, you're, as you're again, office move. It brings these things up as it, as it happens with any move, you, you find these things you haven't seen in a while. And I'm, I'm curious when you think back to these original notes from, you know, 1997, when you have one of this, these first seminar sessions with him, and then you reflect on where you're at today and what, you know and what's what, what's changed in the industry, things like policy, design, what have you? And Mindset technology adjustments changes YouTube. Like we're going to be on here with this show. What's shifted and what's different in the, in the notes. You took the aha moments of 1997, Tim, to 2022, Tim.

Well, so certainly I, I'm more, I'm more grounded in the fundamentals of his teachings. But I would also say, I dare to say that there's not a time that I have read his book, and I usually read his book now, like once every three or four months. I'll take a slow read through, through his, his book, and I don't ever come away not learning something new.

And I remember one of the last seminars that I had Nelson delivered to my clients up here in Wilkes Barre.

And at, at one of the breaks on the second day.

I said, you know, Nelson, it was close to 20 years at that point that, that I had been associated with him. And I said, you know, Nelson, your seminar has not changed one word. And he said, well, when you have the truth, you don't need to remember what you said.

And.

So profound, you know, when you think of that, how profound that is. And again, that gets you thinking, right? You know, and, and, and look, I think one of the biggest aha moments for me always is how simple this is.

You were just talking about.

It's complicated because we try to make it complicated and our industry makes it complicated. But as Nelson said, this is incredibly simple. It's just different. And that's why there's the difficulty that people have in either grasping it or implementing it or both. And I think that's like the biggest aha. Is we have to sort of. It's so hard to unclutter the minds of our clients who are filled with so much noise that, you know, usually stands in the way of them getting the results that they want.

That is so true. So true. And we, we were interviewing Justin Kraft earlier, and I had addressed the very same thing. And it's so interesting that as colleagues, as we all know each other, and we've been on this journey some for, for years longer than, than we have. There's just been this shift with practically everyone who's seasoned that it's a back to basics, it's a back to simplicity. It's just receiving that inspiration because Nelson said it all the time. This is becoming your own banker is ridiculously simple. And once you really, truly understand the problem, the solution becomes clear. You'll know exactly what to do. And if you can grasp the grocery store example in his Book, he said the rest of becoming your own banker is a piece of cake.

Sure.

But we try.

To complicate.

Yeah. There's so much truth to that.

And you can even buy your cake at a grocery store and then you could pay yourself back for it, you know, the same grocery store that you own, you can buy your cake there, and then you can just pay yourself back for the cake. So you can have your cake and eat it too, kind of.

No. Yeah, yeah, Imagine that. Imagine that. You know, he. I remember.

And, and, and I'm sure you've had the same experience where a client in a seminar would sort of get.

Bogged down by the numbers.

And.

You know, Nelson would, would sort of in, in, in a, in the only in the nicest way that he can do it. He would chastise them, look down his glasses at them, or look over the top of his glasses at them and say, you're getting hung up on the numbers. This is ridiculously simple. It's about who controls the banking function in your life.

And.

My daughter and I have a saying. Whoever controls your cash flow controls your life.

And we let all of these entities into our checking account regularly, freely. And once we stop that, once we stop the flow of that financial energy away from us and start to redirect it back to us.

Life changes like that. I mean, your financial situation changes in ways that you can't even grasp. And it's literally immediate. And people don't get that.

They don't get that. And.

You only figure it out once you implement this system.

That's right.

It's like trying to describe to someone who is, who had either, not yet, you know, started a family.

To someone who's maybe expecting. So you have a couple, they're pregnant, they're expecting, and, and you've got four kids. And you say, my goodness, your life is going to change in an instant when baby arrives.

Right.

And, and they hear that from everyone who have kids, but they, they don't grasp it until that moment. And then when you come back to them and they say, oh, my goodness. Exactly, you're so right.

And things change.

Everything changed.

And you know, Jason, I, I learned from a young client of mine, you know, when I, I say young, he's, he's now in his, in his early 30s. And he was trying to tell a mutual friend of ours, a contemporary of his who was in his early 30s. My client had two kids at this point. And his friend, our mutual friend was expecting this first. And my friend said to, to him, he said, hey, well, what changes? And my client said everything, but it's all good. Like it's, you know, so, and it, and it's the same thing here with ibc, right? Yeah. What changes? Everything. But it's all for the good, it's all for your betterment. And so I, I've used that, that analogy several times over the years.

And anyway, I, I think it's interesting, something that you said earlier as you're, you know, you're reading Nelson's book slowly and methodically, you know, roughly every quarter, give or take, and always coming away with something new. Now we, we very much sound like a broken record echoing that in our podcast. And, and everyone that's been a listener knows that we, we say the same thing. The reason we say it, and we say it repetitiously is because here a Gentleman for almost 25 years has been reading this book and he's still coming away through repetitious reading with the same result. That is a success, leaves clues, and that is a clear clue. So as a listener recognize, when we say you need to reread the book, we're not joking.

And if you reread it the second time and the third time, you won't have to have us tell you anymore because you're naturally going to want to keep reading it anyway. You will be inspired enough to do so because you'll recognize what starts showing up in your life.

So true. And what would you say, Tim, on your journey, what has been, if you're again to reflect back to where you began, to where you are now.

What.

Has changed in the way of your, you know, when Nelson would say, the more you see infinite banking concepts, the more you'll see you didn't see.

So how, how has that evolved for you and your clients over time?

Well, you know, I've always felt this, and, and that is such a great question, Jason, but I've always felt that my clients will teach me more about infinite banking than I could teach them.

And they are very, either they're very creative, either out of necessity or out of design.

And how they use it. And I have one guy who is just a.

Fanatic about keeping track of things to the penny, dollars in, dollars out. And he, he, he carries his IBC notebook and it has all of, it's, it's, it's like an accounting book of all his money that goes in his segregated account and all the money that comes up.

Excuse me. And, you know, and, and so that, so what has changed is, is really, I mean, you know, Certainly technology has changed. Right. It's changed everybody. But, you know, when I, when I balance my infinite banking system, I get one bank statement with my segregated account.

And I know what monies came in from policy loans and what monies went back into that account and then ultimately back to my policies. So I look at that, I could recon, I could reconcile it. I mean, so I'm sure you guys are doing it as well. But what does it take, three minutes?

If that.

I mean.

Yep.

So, so this, to Nelson's point, this is ridiculously simple. Yes, it is. It really is ridiculously simple. And you know, it's, it's funny.

We try to get hung up on the numbers and, and, and that's, that's the. Again, I, you know, I, I, I said it a few minutes ago, but, you know, Nelson would look over his glasses at you like you're getting hung up on the numbers. And it was so true, because this is not about numbers. The numbers will come, but the freedom you get by cutting the snakes and dragons out of your financial life is so much more rewarding.

All day long I've had people say that they've first time reading the book or what have you, and even reflecting back to people attending clients, attending a live Nelson seminar. And of course, when he's going through components of the book that are some illustrations as an example. Equipment financing is always one that people get stumped on just because you're flipping back and forth through the book. Right. So there's, there's additional confusion to make sure that you're on the right page while Nelson's up there talking. And people would come away and they would say, well, I, you know, I didn't necessarily follow all that, but I also didn't really feel like I needed to because, like, intuitively I just know that it, that it's right. Like, I just know it makes sense. And there's some kind of a, like a gut feeling that shows up as you're going through the content of the book. And I myself experienced this the very first time. I just knew, I knew that this was what I had been looking for. And I had this, this unshakable feeling of this is where I, I've been, I've been waiting for this book to show up in my life.

And, and it's like Nelson would say.

The truth is truth.

And so it's like it's, you're just being exposed to it now through a lens that you couldn't, you weren't looking through before. It's Kind of like, you know, they have those like decoder glasses, right? You know, there's like an extra color that flips down and then you can see things that were on the same page that you couldn't see before sort of thing. And Nelson's book is like a decoder for your financial life.

Oh, my God, that is such a great analogy because that's what it is.

That's, that's literally what it is. And you know.

As a kid, right, we, I grew up in a very. I didn't realize how poor we were. We were really poor, but I didn't realize that, you know, because we basically had everything. You know, everybody from our neighborhood was pretty much in the same boat.

Probably middle class to lower middle class. And we just thought that's the way people were, right? And I didn't realize how poor we were until I went to college and, and, and I saw kids with money, but that neither here nor there.

We lived as growing up, we lived pay to pay. You know, my, my parents could not.

Go week, you know, one week with, with a surplus. It was just, you know, raising three kids on, you know, back then, maybe $18,000 a year. You know, we're talking about in the 70s. Even though that was a fair amount of money back then, it wasn't a lot. And you know.

It wasn't until like I was when I met Nelson. But up to that point, I was living pay to pay in the financial services and I was single, I had no kids. I was making probably five or six times what my dad used to make.

And I was living pay to pay because I was following the advice of the quote unquote, financial geniuses.

And I woke up one day, actually my mom, we were sitting around talking about the good old days at Chris one Christmas, and my mom said to me, well, we were talking about the time where my. We were waiting for my dad's pay and our car wouldn't start once we got my dad's pay. And I remember saying to my mom, like, what were we doing there? And she said, waiting for daddy's pay. And I said, why didn't you wait the next day? And I'll never forget, like, she shot me a look like, hey, I had bills to pay. They were going to shut off the electricity, they were going to shut off the water. I. We couldn't wait another day. And that's when it hit me that, oh my God, I'm living pay to pay. Now I'm a, I'm in financial services. I'm following the advice of the experts. And I am broke. I literally, several times I had to borrow money from my dad to pay my mortgage.

Because I didn't have the money, and I'm making so much more than him. And it, it dawned on me at that point, the financial system, you know, the, the, the financial geniuses try to make it sound like it's your fault because you don't make enough money. That's why you, you can't get ahead. But it's really their fault because we're following their advice. They're getting wealthy on our money.

And we're helping them just by participating.

And that's when. To your point, Richard, when I got Nelson's message, it was like, this is exactly what I'm looking for.

This is exactly what I need.

To fix the problem. And it was. And it is.

And he often said, you don't have to play their game.

You don't have to play their game, and you don't have to be rich to get into the banking business.

Well, and that's true, Jason. Right. And that's why he used to. The all American family. Yeah, right. What was a guy making $27,000 a year?

28. 5.

And it was.

So profound. Right. He did that for a reason. He wanted to prove to people you don't have to be rich to change your, you know, your financial future and the direction that you're headed. You just gotta, like you said, stop playing their game.

He's paying the same amount of money into a financial pool one way or another to have access to that vehicle he's driving. The difference is he's paying a toll to get access to the same amount of money. He's got to go through the gatekeeper and the toll taker, you know, the guy at, you know, for credit and GMAC finance, in order to get access to the money, he's making the same equivalent amount of payments, but it's not being appropriately directed to his financial benefit. And that's, you know, isolated in the money pool. Examples of Nelson's book.

Very true.

And Tim, what would you, what would you say to, you know, because we have a lot of advisors that tune in to our podcast. They consume our content on YouTube and, you know, maybe they're either first being exposed to the process and they want to receive inspiration to share this with their clients. What advice would you extend to those folks who might be watching or tuning in?

Well, you know.

You have to be curious and you have to have a natural curiosity, which I know I have. And it's probably led me down some rabbit holes I didn't want, I didn't need to go down. But at the same time, it's also led me to some very valuable information. And I think you also have to have an open mind because if you think that you know everything, then you're not going to get anything from this or anything, you know, any, any concept or any program. So that, that's the first thing. But, you know, the fact that they've been led to your, your podcast or your YouTube video indicates that they have that natural curiosity. And then I would just say follow your, follow your instincts from there.

It's very good advice. Very good advice. And because the, you know, we, we were just talking about this earlier as well is that the.

If you were, if you were to gather, you know, a bunch of life license advisors, financial planners, people who are just generally being exposed to this concept. And as Nelson would talk about, he said, you know, if you, if you get people around the water cooler talking about anything financial, it's not very long before the conversation gravitates toward rates. And within the advisor community, it gravitates toward product and company and who can design the best policy. And all of that stuff that Nelson would just say, stop majoring in the minors. You're missing the point entirely. Becoming your own banker has absolutely nothing to do with life insurance, right?

Nothing.

And he would just, he would just drill that into people's brains and most people just weren't they, they didn't get it. Well, what are you talking about? Of course, yeah, you need a policy.

Right, to, to build your warehouse of wealth. But we're talking about a process and so to try to get an advisor's mindset shifted because they think, listen, I got to be the expert on the product in order to be effective in the marketplace.

Versus I need to be very effective at helping people understand the problem. So that when we, when we describe the solution, it passes actually matters to them.

It matters. And, and kids pick up on this so much faster than adults. We, we do an annual family banking meeting. And would, would you believe it, Tim? None of my kids, none of my nephews, none of my nieces have ever approached me and asked me a product question.

It's all their questions are products.

That is so awesome. That means you're doing your job too.

But the kids get it because they haven't had their heads.

That's amazing.

Put, you know, there's no landfill of noise.

There's no landfill there. Whereas. And, and the reason we're saying this is because if you're an advisor and you're tuning into this, firstly, thank you for tuning in. Secondly, you're here for a reason. And if you're, if your mind is taking you to complexity and taking you to the product and taking you to all of that stuff, we've been there too. And when you change course and you actually begin to focus on what really matters and you can achieve the outcome that Tim described, creating what Nelson would say is a very peaceful, stress free way of life financially, the last thing that's going to come up in your interactions with clients is going to be product, it's going to be process and all the outcomes that they're achieving.

Plain and simple.

I've always felt and it's so, it's so true. And I'm sure Jason and Richard, you, you've experienced this yourselves. But the best part of what we do is when the client says, okay, what do we need to do to move forward?

And then once you get the policy set up.

The next question they ask is, who do I write the check to?

And when you get that, then you realize that you've communicated this process properly because all the other stuff doesn't matter.

And that to me is the biggest compliment I could get from a client is when they say, who do I write the check to? Love it.

Well, one of the beautiful things about Nelson's book and all the training and things of course that he did is in that thinking process. And Nelson spent a lot of time in his course and he touches on it in the book but in the course he would expand more on the importance of classification and that if you people will understand what's going on if you classify things correctly. And he talked about things that weren't classified correctly. And then he would tell a story about, you know, take an apple and if you cut an apple not from the top, you know, top to the bottom, but across the middle and the, around the equator and you peel it apart and you look at it, you'll see a five pointed star. And he said why? That's interesting. Why is that important? You know, also say, well, the reason is that an apple is in the rose family. And if you understand classification, anything with a five pointed star in that is a part of the rose family. And it would go into this forestry explanation. You know, it's like there was no less than seven courses about classifying every semester in my, you know, forestry, you know, school. And he says the reason that people have a mental blockage in, in their brain around first of all they hear the word insurance and because of some conversation or past exposure or maybe they didn't get a payout on a car, car insurance claim or something they have. So the word insurance has some kind of baggage attached to it. That's the industry, it's created. The industry itself has created that, that issue. And so people put up a mental barrier because of misclassification. They shouldn't have called dividend paying whole life insurance whole life insurance. They should have called it a personal monetary system with a death benefit thrown on the side for good measure. But that's a really long name. We'd have to come up with some kind of an acronym. Nelson would say. And if we would have just classified things based on their major characteristics, every single person on planet earth would be doing this. If you know, oh, oh, I just wanted one of those personal monetary systems that the insurance, the mutual life insurance companies got on the shelf over there. Let's get one of those.

Yeah.

How he described it.

That's a great point. And keep this in mind. And this is something when people come to me and they say I'm too old for this or.

I wish I'd known this whatever so many years ago. Keep this in mind.

You realize when Nelson figured this out, when he had the aha moment there was no such thing as paid up additions writers.

So he was, he knew in 1981 or 82 when he figured this out.

Because he had received a policy statement on the policy his brother had sold him in 1958 that had a 300 and I forget what it was. $389.

388, yeah. 3 8820.

So it was, it was a $388 premium. His cash value grew that year by 1200 or $1600. And he knew that if he paid a dollar he got three or four dollars. And he just said to himself, my gosh, there's the answer. I've got to get my premiums equal to my mortgage. And then if this problem happens again where interest rates rise.

I've got my mortgage covered.

And so at that point he started buying annual pay life insurance, no PUA rider. Now that proves one big point.

This. You have to think long term.

Yep.

If it right, only a forester would fit would have thought that far in advance.

And, and that to me like one of the things I, I share with my clients right from the get go, this is the long game. If you're not in this for the long game, I cannot help You.

Yeah, yeah. People look for instant gratification because that's the, that's the framework of our society now. Instant coffee, instant food. Amazon Prime's gonna have 38 billion drones flying over your head every day, dropping packages on your face. And like people want things instantly. And that's not. Nelson shared very clearly, like you need to think three generations past your own because they're all going to need the use of money.

Yep.

And so it's not just about understanding the process. It's being able to, you know, build something that's worth transferring to the next generation which is fundamentally the knowledge of the process. The money will be there, the death benefits will show up, those windfalls will show up. And so you've got to be able to teach and transfer the knowledge to the next generation so that they know how to carry on with the process. How to replant all the trees.

Exactly.

You know, to rebuild the forest.

Speaking of that long game, you know, an analogy that comes up for me is you know, you got instant noodles. So you can have instant noodles in two minutes. And you know, we've all, we've all had those. But you know, a really, you know, a lot of people who, I like a good barbecue and you know, people get it into this like smoked meat and they, they, they like smoke a brisket and whatever and they get into this whole thing and 12 hours, 24 hours go by and you've got this, you know, delicious, delectable, you know, piece of meat and sandwich, whatever you're going to have it in. But you had to, you had to go to the store to get it. You had to prep everything, you had to, you know, all the, all the pre work that went into before you even stuck it into the, the smoker to go and income and you know, although the timeframe is a smaller timeframe if you think about a two minute noodles versus a you know, 36 hour smoked meat meal that you're having, gathering all your family around to be a part of the experience because that's an experience. That's the difference between, you know, instant noodle, financial products and then like this long term thinking, everyone's involved, we're going to have the family around to be a part of it and experience enjoy together. You know, in community.

Method of financial thinking that Nelson kind of brought to the table. And I just, I really think that that long range thinking is so important. One of the things you talked about, you know, that, that 1982, you know, epiphanous moment that Nelson had through A lot of, you know, prayer, being in a really horrendous financial condition. People talk about being in a horrendous financial condition. Nelson, Nelson's back was up against the wall. He was, he.

If we really recognize the difference in the inflationary dollars we're talking about, he ended up with $800,000 of debt at like 23.5% interest in 1982. That's an astronomical amount of capital and pressure on your back. And so knowing that he didn't have paid up additions riders like you say, he recognized he still needed to make that intentional decision to prioritize the premium, prioritize premium for something else. It took Nelson 13 years, 13 years to get rid of the snakes and dragons, to fire his bankers, to take all that debt, that outer world third party debt, bring it back into his own sphere of control. And that was with policy design that we don't even have the, you know, that, that he didn't have the potential of doing what we can do today. And so he was able to still do it in that short period of time. Like what does that tell us about how, you know, people talking about the importance of a base premium? Well, Nelson clearly indicated that through his own life experience, he recognized the power in that, in that base policy. Just that alone. Yeah, we can, we can put some little bit of speed on there, we could, we can jazz it up a little bit. But it's that core foundational piece of this personal monetary system contract that's really the driving feature here. And Nelson's own experience is part of that story.

That's such a great point, Richard, because.

There are a lot.

Infinite banking is not about the paid up ads, right?

That's right.

It is the efficiency of that base policy.

And the base policy after like the fifth or sixth year blows away the PUA rider. And people don't, you know, again, going back to. Because we're so preconditioned to instant gratification, you know, we've got to see a 70% or an 80% or a 90% cash value back in year one or it doesn't make sense. And you know, just like Nelson would say in his seminar, you know, after most people look at life insurance, they look at the first or second year and they say, well, this is a terrible investment.

And then what does he say? They couldn't be further from the truth. Yep.

Because again, he was a long, he was in there in this for the long, long game. Right. He was a forester. He was thinking 70 years in advance.

And there's so much power to that. And I guess you have to have that. The patience of a forester to really implement this or to follow it through.

So true. Remembering.

The truth. Like you're going to need the use of money for the rest of your lifetime and so is the next generation, and so is the generation after that, and so on.

Right.

And someone must perform the function of banking what's going on in the world.

Yep.

And it's. That should be you. It should be held at the you and me level. That's where it should be controlled. And when you work with clients, I mean, Tim, you've had clients now who've been in process for a few decades.

Yep.

And you know, our, our clients, the most seasoned would be, you know, approaching.

12, maybe 12, 13 years tops, you know, with some backdating, if we factor in backdating contracts.

So, and, and we, there's never a bad review when you're meeting with someone to say, look.

Your system is going to continue growing no matter what you do. If you just let the insurance company take care of administering your policies, they're going to continue rising every day no matter what. But it is your behavior that's far more important than the behavior of the insurance company. If you truly understand how to take control of this function and you can create a far better outcome than what the insurance company could have done just administering it all on their own.

Right.

And it's, it's a, it's not. We were, we were just talking about this not too long ago. You get that question at some point where someone says, well, how soon can I stop paying the premium? Well, if you develop the ability to rethink your thinking, you're going to ask, how long could I pay it for?

Right.

Understand. Exactly. And so think of it.

I just had a review with a client and they, they've been on board for probably 13 years.

And they're at a point now where for every dollar they pay the insurance company into their policy, they're getting back like $2.25. And when they get to. And they're in their mid-40s, when they get to their mid-50s, it'll be about close to $4 for every dollar they put in. And when they get to 65, it'll be about $6 for every dollar they put in.

Sounds like a good inflation hedge to me.

That's exactly what I said to them. And I said, what's the best way to beat inflation? They're like, well, I don't know. I said, well, how about getting $1 to do several jobs, but $1 to perform like four or five.

Yeah. And what's the rate of return.

On getting $1 to do two jobs?

It's infinite.

Right. And when you think about that.

All.

That other stuff doesn't matter. And see, here's the thing.

What people don't realize is you start with money here and then the end game is to get, you know, to retirement.

But with infinite banking, you get to control this money in between. And that's. And what do you have going on there? You have houses and you have vacations and you have college and you have, you know, for your children and, and you have maybe cars and business, you know, business investment. And you know what Nelson would always say, the most frustrating thing in life is to not have access to money when an opportunity comes your way. And then what else does he say? When you have money, opportunities will find you.

Yep.

And that is true. I can't even explain to you how true that is.

I'm curious the story of this, you know, client 13 years in, and I'm sure you have clients for, you know, longer time frames than that. And I'd venture to guess, Tim, you've also had, you know, the, the unfortunate experience of having to show up and deliver a check for, for a claim. My curiosity is, you know, for our listeners, maybe when you think about clients that have been with you a long time, how have you started to see intergenerational stuff happen as far as conversation? You know, parents bringing their kids in to, to, to get going, and maybe you're even looking at some third generation grandkid stuff. Can you maybe just speak to that for a moment?

Yeah. So you know, where, you know, where we see a lot of this, Richard, is where, when.

We'Ll set up a plan for a husband and wife and they have children who are going to college and they're really not prepared for this. So we find some inefficiencies in their cash flow, set up a policy, and then we borrow against the policy to pay for college and we get that squared away. And I had, I had one guy and he was all on board, but he just didn't, he wasn't prepared to move forward. And you could just sense that there was something. And I said to him.

This all makes sense. What's holding you back?

And he said, you know, I've been doing things the other way for so long, it just feels right. But he said.

My biggest concern.

Is that.

You'Re just trying to sell me this policy and you're not going to be here with me. And I've got four kids to educate and that's 32 semesters. I've got to pay tuition.

And he said, what if you're not here for that? What if I can't count on you? And I said, all I could tell you is I'm going to be here.

And so sure enough, we were. And his youngest is a junior in college right now.

And the great thing is that his two oldest, as soon as they graduated college and they got their first job, the first thing he did was he set up an appointment for them to meet with me. And that to me is the biggest honor. Listen.

We'Ve all dealt with big cases and they're exciting, right? But.

You have to understand this is so powerful and so life changing that when you.

Get a parent to recommend that their kid comes and starts with $100 a month policy.

I can't describe to you how rewarding that is.

Amen to that.

Absolutely. Tim, this was awesome.

Thank you for being with us today, my friend. That was awesome and we do appreciate it and you know, we're will to take us into the finish line. I'd like to just ask you one final question, Tim. And you know, I know that you, you've been, you know, your experience, you share with us today, your time with Nelson and carrying that forth, that, that torch forward, the amount of people you've helped over your career, that gentleman you just told a story about, you may not know it, but because you were there and you followed through the way he asked you to, you showed up as a hero for that individual. And so you may not think of yourself as a superhero, but when you do the things you're doing today and sharing your story like this, you are being a hero for others. So who would you most like to be a hero to?

Well, you know, obviously my kids and you know, my wife obviously as well, and all of my clients. Right. Because they've, they've given back to me. And, and I, I, I think, you know, showing up for them is, is the right thing to do. And yeah, and anybody who's struggling to figure this out. Right. I mean, hopefully, maybe some of the things that I said today will hopefully click for them and, and give them the impetus to move forward. Because you know, like, like Nelson used to say, the longer you wait, the longer you're punishing, you know, the longer you punish yourself.

Love it.

Tim, we appreciate you so much and we will have you back if, if you're okay with that. And oh my God, yeah.

First of all, this is such an honor. You guys are. I mean, you guys are really doing it and. And you're doing it the right way. And it's so great to see you. Jason. I remember when you first became part of our masterminds group and.

Probably didn't know what you didn't know back then, but it's just so great to see the confidence that you've gotten.

And how good you've gotten at delivering this message. It's not about policies, it's not about money. It's about delivering the message. And when you understand that, you understand what a. What a tremendous privilege and responsibility this is. And I know watching both of you going forward that the ability to have this message delivered is in good hands. So I'm so grateful to be here.

Thanks.

Thanks, Tim. We appreciate you. And to everybody on the. On the YouTubes, just keep an eye on the playlist that's going to show up. And that playlist is meant to be an inspiration to you to continue your journey of learning. This is so important. There's always something new to learn as. As our late mentor often said, there's no such thing as having arrived in knowledge. So continue your journey of learning. We hope that you got a ton of value out of today. Tim is truly one of a kind and we appreciate him so much and loved having him on the show. So make the rest of your week great. Thanks for tuning in. We'll catch up with you all on the next episode.

Thanks, everybody. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks for listening to the Wealth Without Bay street podcast, where your wealth matters. Be sure to check out our social media channels for more great content. Hit subscribe on your favorite podcast player and be sure to rate the show. Show. We definitely appreciate it. And don't forget to share this episode with someone you care about. Join us on the next episode where we continue to uncover the financial tools, strategies, and the mindsets that maximize your wealth.