2. Think Long Term with David Stearns | Nelson Nash Institute

You are listening to the Wealth Without Bay Street Podcast, a Canadian guide to building dependable wealth. Join your host, Richard Canfield and Jason Lowe as they unlock the secrets to creating financial peace of mind in an uncertain world. Discover the strategies and mindsets to a financial future that you can bank on.

Welcome to Wealth Without Bay Street.

We're pumped.

We're very excited to have, joining us today Mr. David Stearns. David is the president of Infinite Banking Concepts. He's a board member of the Nelson Nash Institute. And we couldn't be any more excited to have him here with us today. So welcome David.

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. It's always good to talk to somebody north of the border. So here we go.

Good to be with you. And we wanted to start today's episode by just sharing. So for listeners who aren't aware. So David Stearns is also the late R. Nelson Nash, the developer, the pioneer, the founder of the process of becoming your own banker, Infant Banking Concepts. And David Stearns is Nelson's son in law. And so, David, we thought we would start off the episode today by just maybe having you share with our listeners what is inspiring you to carry on the message and to help others really understand the essence of who Nelson was and just the level of impact that he continues to have today.

Okay, great. I sure will. You introduced me as Nelson's son in law. I like to believe that I'm more of his guinea pig.

Because, I mean, he would introduce me as the, the single most.

Prolific IBC practitioner with a small P on the planet. That's because he set me up way back when. Okay, buy this sign that, you know, get this policy. And of course I didn't know what I was doing and I did whatever he told me to do. But it, so that's, you know, you know, not only do I want to continue his legacy through the institute, but I think it's just critically important that we move people out of the retail commercial banking sector into the insurance sector for their banking purposes. And it took me a long time to really understand what that meant, what that looked like. And the first time I Met Nelson was 79. And I started working with him with IBC in 2000 and officially in 2004. But the light didn't really go on for me until about, I don't know, eight or nine years ago. And so what he has instilled within me is a passion to.

Teach the public, the general public, both the Canadian public and the US Public, the truth about what's really going out there in the financial world. Okay. And that's because you watch tv, you listen to all these newscasts, you listen to these financial networks and whatnot, and they're talking within the problem, within the construct that they've created. And so it's so crystal clear to me that if we educate the people out there, they'll see that there's much more to it than what they're being told. So.

Nelson was singular in his message, and his passion was genuine. And I don't think I'll ever be able to replicate that, but I, you know, I do believe that what he taught us is biblically true. And we're on a mission at the Institute to push it forward and expand it and keep going.

That is so interesting to hear you say. And one of the comments that you had made in the film for our listeners, there's a documentary film titled this is Nelson Nash. It's available to the world on YouTube. Amazing film.

We'll put a link to that in the show notes as well.

Yeah, and David, you made a comment in the film where you said, this is a. This is not a financial plan. This is a lifestyle. And that even for me, in, when I saw that in the film, I remember Richard, I connected reach out and said, oh, my God, like that. That was such a powerful comment. And we utilize that in discussion with people who are really beginning their journey with the process. And so, David, would you mind just expanding from your perspective? How would you describe this process of becoming your own banker to the general public and maybe share a little bit more about that specific comment? When you said this is a lifestyle, it's not a financial plan, what did you mean by that?

Okay, let me start off with a Nelsonism, then I'll move into something more personal. He always said that you need to be in two businesses.

Right.

Whatever your profession is.

As a business, plus banking. So when he says you should be in banking as a primary business, and that's not a financial tool, that's a major part of your Life. You're working 40 hours a week or whatever you're doing to earn income, and the rest of the time, you're using the banking process to. To store and warehouse that money and then utilization of it. Okay, so that's the basis where I was coming from. But the lifestyle piece of it for me is that as Nelson's guinea pig, I didn't. I mean, we got to the point.

Where.

Every check we wrote was the insurance companies, whether in the form of premiums or loan repayments. And, you know, Initially, it was, it was. It was.

Painful because we were stretching our limits and growing. But the more, the more I did it, the more I thought about it. You know, Kim and my. We both feel the same way about this, by the way, that, you know, every time we had a premium due or whatever, then.

We just felt like we were depositing, you know, our income into our systems of policies. And it was just something that we did naturally. It was an organic kind of movement, you know, and yeah, checking account was used to warehouse the money until we could get it out of there. But, you know, we're up to 26 policies now and we're lagging behind. I need to. Need to buy two more on grandchildren. I mean, I need to. I didn't say I want to, I said need to buy two more and two grandchildren. And unfortunately, my agent is no longer with us, so I'm interviewing other people, pick up that role. But anyway, so it's. The more money we can put in our banking system.

The better we feel about things. And it's just a natural progression. You know, I just, you know, I believe the one thing I like about the Austrian school of economics, to me, it's organic. You know, the supply and demand is a life cycle itself. How it works where you contrast that against, you know, more of a socialistic, you know, system where it's based on models and correlations and whatnot. So, you know, I just think life's, you know, lifestyle banking is a good term and you meet it where you're at. You know, you can only do so much and you progress as you can. So that's kind of where I was coming from.

I love how you use the term organic and what I'm picking up on there, to reframe it a little bit, David, what I hear is that it was about a habit forming, habitual nature over time, that natural progress. And you would get a policy, you started with one, then you went and got another one, then you went and got another one. And. And it became to the point where it was just such a commonplace thing, the utilization of capital now flowing through policies versus the way that you had been doing it previously, that now it's that organic nature, that habit had been formed over a period of time. And obviously being the guinea pig, as you identified, Nelson drilled a lot of that into you. But one of the things that Nelson, in my experience, was so amazing and good at, I know for Jason and I was letting us find our own way a little bit. He would. He would dangle a carrot of information in front of you without giving you enough details. And he would force your brain to think about a solution and get creative on it and find a way that made sense to you. I think it was just such a skillful art, the way that he would do that. He would say so much without saying anything at all. I mean, how guru like.

And then when you would call him and say, I think I figured it out. This is the approach I'm going to take. And you knew you got it right if he said yes.

Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what he used to do. And he was also. He was the master. If he always put emphasis on.

The things that weren't important in a conversation and he dropped hints about what was important and see if you picked up on them like that. So you're right. Yeah.

One of the big things nowadays in the infinite banking world that I don't necessarily agree with, but it's big out there, is all these huge policies. You know, get the biggest policy you can get the first day and overfund the crap out of it initially and.

You'Ll be set. Okay, well, a lot of people can't do that. Right, right. So they do what they can do and then as their life.

Progresses, as their wealth grows, as their family grows, as their business associates change, then you can progressively increase your portfolio, which is what we kind of did. So you start off with one, you end up with as many as you need.

That's right.

I love how you use the words portfolio because that's something that I picked up from you. I know when we were. One of the last times I was down in Birmingham, we were at your house and we were having lots of general discussions about things and it was in relation to the film, but you talked about having a portfolio of policies, having a loan portfolio, and you talked about it in such a way as it was just this true aspect of your life. In the same way that someone who is totally unfamiliar with the concept and what it is would be talking about, like their other wealth portfolio in the traditional sense and the traditional means. And I just found that a very interesting connection because that goes back to that organic aspect that you've created and that implemented that lifestyle banking. It's literally an infused aspect of your financial life.

The one thing that I absolutely, really love is the talk that David did at one of the annual Infinite Banking think tank conferences. And that might even be something that we can make available as a link to our listeners as well, because I think it's just so impactful.

Many of us.

I'm sure we weren't the only ones who approached David and said that was one of the best talks ever at a think tank because it really got to the essence of what the process of becoming your own banker, the infinite banking concept, is all about. David, that talk was just incredible and I think our listeners would really benefit from it.

Well, to give everyone who's listening a framework, you know, David was gracious enough to show the practitioners at this event, really kind of crack open the hood a little bit and show the different policies in his family system and how, and also how they had progressed over time. What was the reason that we got this policy? Well, you know, I retired and they were going to pay me a pension. Well, you know, I had to, but I had to contribute this amount of money. Well, if I was going to contribute the money anyway, Nelson taught me that I had to be an honest banker and do that, which meant if I, if I'm not going to give those guys the money, I better give that money to the family through a banking system. That was another policy. And so literally the step by step intentional creation of policies on this person's life, on that person's life and how it progressed was just such a really cool experience to sit and have you walk everyone through. And I know there was a lot of aha moments for the people that were in the room that day and myself, I wasn't actually there at that event so I had to wait. I heard about it and then I had to wait to watch the video afterwards. And so I like, I put that thing on repeat and I've watched it several times because there's so many nuggets and takeaways that you captured, you know, and that, you know, and you mentioned earlier here in our call that you're at 26 now, just two more that you need to get, need not want to, need to get. And maybe if you can walk the folks through a little bit, just, you know, what were, what were some of. When you just think back on how so many of these policies came about, what are a couple that stick out for you about the reason that you got them and how that you've used them a little bit.

Well, I guess the first one is the most memorable one. You know, everybody thinks Nelson Nast woke up one day and all of a sudden IBC was in his brain. You know, it was a progression for him also. Yeah, if you read the book, you see the aha moment when he was praying on his knees at 3 o' clock in the morning right before he was getting ready to. To file chapter 11. It's like, how do. Lord, I got myself in this mess? How do I get myself out of this mess? And then, then he, then he realized that he had the capability of doing that. But that wasn't ibc, that was survival.

Yeah.

Okay. So my first one was when actually sold me a policy. And it was just like, you know, a life insurance policy, a whole life policy. We didn't know anything about PUAs back then. And I don't even have that policy anymore. I 1035, did I exchange it for another one? I don't know, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, something that was more better performing. I probably made a mistake by doing that. But that obviously was memorable. But the one you referred to, Richard, I retired from the army after quite a while. And one of the things they have in the military, you get a pension, and it's a certain percentage per year, times the number of years served or whatever. So it's good as long as the government still has got assets to pay you. But one of the things that the government has in the United States through the military is a survival benefit program, and they push that hard. And all it is, what it's supposed to be, is if the retiree passes, then his spouse will receive, like, up to 55% of his retirement pay. And all it is, is a term insurance policy is all it really is. And you pay a certain percentage every month while you're receiving your retirement pay to fund that. And so if you pass, then guess what? She gets her money. Well, I did the math on it and it was like, well, I can go out and buy a IBC policy for the same amount, and my annual premium is going to be like, probably, I don't know, $4,000 a year. And then I can recapture all my premiums by year 13 and. And forget about what I'm doing if I pass or fail or whatever. Yes, on me, and my wife owns it, but she's gonna have so much more than some government term policy. And oh, by the way, we can use it.

I mean, I got something I can use for banking where I can't use some term thing for the US Government. So that was a big one.

You know, we have four children and we have seven grandchildren. And I like to say my kids get ibc.

But they don't fund it as much as they should. And so, you know, we're the first ones to buy policies on the grandchildren.

Even before they do on their, their own children. And and so the last policy bought, so it was the most important one in my mind. And you know, so the first one I got my retirement policy and then the last one I bought on, you know, like a one month old grand grandson's important.

I'm going to buy one right now. Hang on, I'll be right back.

Well, it's, you know, every time, David.

Like every time we go to think tank every single time and we end up spending a little extra time in Birmingham and we're all literally at some point saying the moment I get back I'm getting an application in for another policy because we get so inspired. And the one thing I would love for you to share, David, is that so you spent more time with Nelson than anybody. And one of the things that Nelson would say repeatedly is the more you see this process of becoming your own banker, the more you will see you didn't see. And so if you think of something recent in terms of has anything come up for you that where you saw it and you thought to yourself, oh my goodness, Nelson was so right because I didn't see it before, I think.

I can answer that more by saying that.

Like you said, I spent more time with Nelson than probably anybody, especially in the last, you know, 16 to 18 years. And you know, every day when somebody says something and it's not just related to ibc, it's any, anything about life, I hear him, I hear him echoing it, his approach, his comment in my brain, you know, and it's just like, you know, I knew I'd miss him when he, when he, when he passed, obviously, because, you know, he said he's such an influential person and he, But I mean every, every day it's like in here I'm just talking in the back of my head, name it, anything, you know, and so I didn't, I didn't anticipate that.

And you know, out there, out there in IBC world out there, there's so many different variations of what's going on out there. You know, what's true, what's not. You know, why do we have to rename, you know, Infinite Banking to all these different variations? You know, to promote what we're teaching or to hide what we're teaching. So he, you know.

We look at that and he just, he just says, you know, you have to teach the public.

He told me this, he told Carlos Lara this and Robert Murphy, your main goal is to teach people how to listen to the noise out there. And so the more I'm doing this now without him, like I said earlier in this conversation with the financial news networks and whatnot, the more I'm able to see the noise in the mainstream media and the more I can see the noise out there in social media, YouTubeVille and the focus there is to educate, educate, educate, educate and teach everybody how to go through the noise and pick out the truth.

Well, and speaking of a couple of education tools that we would highly, highly recommend to listeners would be a couple of books on the subject.

And so the first book being of course Becoming youg Own Banker, which was authored by the late R. Nelson Nash. And secondly would be the Case for ibc. And I'll tell you, the second edition is amazing.

That's fantastic.

And so for folks who are listening, if you want to educate yourself on this process, there's no better way to begin than to read these two books. And so one of the things that we'll do for listeners as well is we'll provide a link for folks who want to purchase and get their hands on it. Yeah. And it's just so important to get this knowledge in your hands when something.

I want to share on this too, Jason, is that what I really love about the Case for ibc, other than just it's a great book and it's a, and it's a pretty quick read for folks is I love the subtitle. It's how to Secede From Our Current Monetary Regime One Household at a time. And what's beautiful about the back of the book, it says crises, bailouts and instability. There is a path out. This book will show you the way. And I think that those are powerful statements and it's a roadmap for how you can take more control over your own capital ultimately. And you don't need. One of the things I remember so much about Nelson saying, look, you don't need to ask permission to do it. We don't need to have. This is not a top down thinking. It doesn't require a government solution or whatever. This is a bottom up solution. Whereas at the individual basis, the household level, the business owner basis, we can just slowly step out of the system and have more control over our day to day money. One day, one moment at a time. By implementing this over a period of years, which is exactly what you've been able to do so effectively.

With your own efforts. But also due to Nelson's influence. David.

Right. Yeah. We would have never done it without him. There's no doubt about it. You're right. In that book, the Case for IVC that we Put that together about, I guess about two years ago. And you know, Nelson used to do seminars all the time. You guys know that because he came up to Edmonton a bunch, did a bunch of stuff for you guys. Well, you know, we, we put together an IBC seminar, you know, after he quit doing his. And so that book is essentially the seminar that we put together so people can use that as a primer. And so, you know, pretty proud of that, that thing. Of course you can't replace becoming your own bank with anything. You know, that's agreed. That's, that's the Bible period.

It is so true.

One of the things that I wrote down in my book, which I thought I wanted to share with you, David, is that I wrote down what I would refer to as, I'm calling it Rule 6 because that's kind of what you had referred it to. And I remember when we were working towards, you know, working on the documentary film a little bit, you'd identified that if There were a 6 rule, Nelson's had had his 4 primary rules for a long time. He added rule number five, which was rethink your thinking. And then you had identified, I remember, I think we were sitting in your living room somewhere, that if there was going to be a Rule 6, Rule 6, in your opinion would be plan for windfalls. I found that to be a very powerful statement and you kind of expanded on a little bit. But I'd really love to get your impact, your take on that because in the last number of years that seemed to be a recurring theme that was brought up or came about for yourself and maybe in discussions that you had with Nelson.

Right? Yeah. Well, the contrast plan for windfall is you have don't steal the peas, right. And we all know what that means.

But older Nelson got and the closer he got to the end, he was concerned about.

His family specifically having places to put.

Windfalls on his passing. And it was, you know, that was a personal connection with him, with us, but it was much broader in scope.

Because mankind's propensity to blow it. You know, and you go back and look at all these people that win these, these big lottery windfalls, where they do it, they blow it and they have a miserable life after that. And so he thinks it's critically important for us for, for mankind to have a place to put windfalls that it will, that, number one, they can't blow. Number two, it'll.

Expand your banking system, okay. And provide you, you know, a lot, you know, you can catch up. That is where you can Have a loan portfolio that's pretty extensive, that's not been paid back, but the policy is still churning along. You're still making, you know, internal rate of return or whatever, and you're still using it, but you have a large hole there, quote unquote with your portfolio. Well, a windfall is going to fill it up quickly and you're right back where you were. Plus yeah. So the idea about plan for windfalls is.

It'S almost like the forced saving aspect of a whole life policy anyway. It's a really savings account. Well, a forced windfall account gives you the opportunity to park large sums of money and not have access to it to spend it. So I think that's an important piece too. But like I said, it's kind of counter to the don't steal your peas mantra that Nelson preached over and over and over again.

Also, I think it also connects with Nelson's first golden rule around thinking long range and thinking three generations past your own. What's your take on that first golden rule, David, as it relates to your experience with this process up to this.

Point in your lifetime on your own family? I mean really, you've got kids and grandkids, I think regeneration.

Yeah, yeah, we. So you know, we own policies on ourselves. My wife and I do each each other, several each other. We own two on each. Each kid, each one of our childs and then we own at least one in every grandchild. And the idea is to, is to not only have a. You know.

You can only buy so much insurance on yourself and your spouse. You're uninsurable. Right. And so you got to look for ways to.

Buy more. I know it sounds crazy. Okay. But you got to look for ways to buy more. And so, you know, one of the best ways to buy more is you buy them on your family members. Right. Your children.

Yeah.

And then when you can't buy any more than them, then where do you go? The grandchildren. And so of course mortality costs are more efficient the younger the insured than they are the older, obviously, even though that's not what this is all about, but it's also logically the best place to do it. And so you have three generations with insurance. And then what do I do with an L121 does that, you know, is that Canadian?

Yeah.

Well, in Canada it's still age 100.

Okay, so what do I do with it with an L100 that I own on a one year old child? Am I going to collect that death benefit?

No.

Okay, so that's Generational wealth transfer, because that policy is going to that child's parents.

And it's going to be up and running. It's going to be efficient because it's going to be fully capitalized and it's going to provide them.

Something to use for that kid's college fund or whatever they want to do with it. So think long range, okay? You know, we're buying on grandchildren now, and that's all we're spending money on them. I'm not buying any more on myself or my wife or my children in the idea of that money. I'll use it as I need to because there are strategies for using that money in retirement. I see that money, the cash surrender values within those policies.

But really the idea is to pass that, that wealth to the next generation and then successfully to the one after that.

One thing that you shared, David, when we were in your home filming what has now become an amazing documentary film, and you were talking about when we had this discussion around think long range, and one of the things that you brought up, which again was so powerful, was, you know, there's a general rule of thumb in the business where the insurance company will permit a starting death benefit on a child up to half of what the parents have on their own lives. And David had shared, he said, well, one of the things that, the reason why we do this is that we crank up these policies at such an early age for these grandchildren and even children is so that when they're having children of their own, their policy death benefits are so massive that you can create even larger starting death benefits on the following generation. And so it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And I remember sending a text to a number of folks who obviously weren't there with us in that month prior to Think tank back in 2000, 2018. And I sent this text out and I said, this is something that David Stern shared with us. And it's just so incredibly powerful in being able to explain that to a parent who's thinking, oh, well, why can't. I mean, I know I have a million dollar death benefit, but why can't I crank out a $2 million starting death benefit on my child? And well, we can again, if we go back to that. Think long range. This is all part of it. And so, so that, you know, the things that.

Really resonate, right when you hear something and it just sticks with you.

Well, and I think that a lot of that came about because of circumstance. You learned that along the way because I think you'd encountered maybe Some issues where you weren't able to do the type of policy you wanted. So maybe that would be a good starting block to just kind of expand on that. David?

Yeah, it's really on ibc. It's more insurance, you know, underwriting issues.

Where, you know, a lot of clients really want to, they want to start up a huge policy on a child or a grandchild. Companies won't let them do it because of underwriting restrictions. So like Jason said, you buy as much as you can as early on, and then if you structure the policy correctly, then your face value is going to be double.

Then what the contractual obligation is from the insurance company will be double in 20 years or even less than that, which gives you much more room and flexibility to buy a larger policy on the next generation. And I know there's some gamesmanship there with different insurance companies and different things like that, but typically that's just kind of the rule of thumb because they just don't get it. I would think if I was an insurance company, I, I would accept the biggest premium I could on the youngest person out there.

Why not?

Why not? Because you're looking at a long premium payments schedule in front of you and it's like, gee, that's a no brainer.

Yeah, think long range, man. And capitalize, capitalize, capitalize.

Absolutely. And thinking about one of the things that.

I guess that was so important to us is talking also about, we brought it up earlier, Richard, where Nelson had policies that he had on joint venture partners or people that.

People that weren't direct family members.

Yeah. He had some kind of business association with these people. And what is the status of those, David? Like some of those policies still exist.

He had mentioned that because he knew that those folks were all younger than him. Those policies were likely not going to mature before his own graduation. And that he made a bit of a joke about who was going to lend up with which policy. So I'm pretty sure you got one. Walk us through how that intergeneration.

I don't know how personal you want to get with this one, but yeah, okay, there's me. Okay. There's Nelson's son Barry, and there's his other son in law.

Jake. Okay, so it's three males, we're all about the same age. And he ended up, after everything, all the dust settled. He owned three policies on prior business associates. Three. And Jake's a lawyer. Okay, okay. And so one of these guys that he owned a policy on, he's owned for years. He didn't even know if the guy was alive or not, he couldn't find him. Okay. And I mean, you know, you can Google somebody's name and see if they're dead or alive, but he. We could not find this individual. So he gave that policy to Jake the lawyer and figured out he could find a guy easier than anybody else could. So, I mean, it's still an active policy. It's still got. Still having premiums paid on it. But the individual, insured individual, nobody knows where he's at.

It'd be a little difficult to file a claim. Yeah, well, he's got a, he's got a fun. Yeah, you never know. Right. And of course, I have one. The guy I have is local to Birmingham, so I can keep an eye on him.

And Barry ended up with that one. So one thing people don't understand is insurance policies is you can change ownership. You know, they're unilateral contracts, right?

That's right.

The insurance company can't change it, but you can. So how do you change it? You can change your beneficiary as many times as you want to. You can change the ownership as many times as you want to. The only thing you can't change, obviously, is who the insured individual is. So the flexibility, flexibility, flexibility.

What's really interesting about what Nelson shared with us when we were down there, I remember when he was kind of walking us through who was going to end up with which policy because he'd had two death claims on previous business partners. And he says, look, I didn't buy these for death claims benefit. I bought these for cash.

Yeah.

And. And that's what I've done with them. That's what I've used them for. Well, I don't need this. I don't need this money today. What, what am I going to do with them? I can't take it with me. I got to pass it on. And so even if that one individual, that one, that one ex business partner that nobody can find, you know, that policy will mature at some point. You know, I believe that's a 100 Paul age 100 policy. And so there's a death claim that will be paid and it's going to go to Nelson's family. It goes back into the system that he started so long ago. And it's that ripple, it's a stone cast in the water that just continues to create a ripple along the family line.

That is so powerful.

Thank you.

Yeah, very powerful.

David.

Anything that you'd like to share with listeners who never had the opportunity to be introduced to or to get to know Nelson. What would you share about him with our listeners?

Well, I think the essence of who he was is.

Represented in the movie you mentioned before. This is Nelson Nash. So I encourage everybody to go watch that movie. It's 60 minutes long, something like that. Like I said, we decided just go throw it up on YouTube, Facebook, because we wanted to, you know, share his legacy with as many folks as possible. So that's a good starting point. And we really kind of did that. So folks who never had an opportunity to really know him could get a feeling for where his starting point was. But, you know, Nelson was definitely different. Okay. And if I contrast his intellectual in his personality with mine that we thought opposite. I mean, really did. I'm a. I'm a kind of a compliance guy, kind of, you know, linear thinker. And he was just. He was just one of these guys that was. That would spend hours and hours and hours thinking through things. Yeah. And he would, you know, he say that. That the genesis of that was when he was a forester and he spent days in the, you know, walking, you know, timberland by himself, you know, counting trees or whatever the heck they did, and then just pondering on everything. And so.

He just, you know, he thought totally opposite for me. And I spent. We spent a lot of time here, me just asking him, you know, what you're saying, this is what this means to me. And he said, you know, nope.

Think about it. You know, think about it. You know, how you doing it? So.

The folks that.

The people that really get who he is, when they say they've read his book like 8 or 9 or 10 or 12 times, then those are the folks that I believe that really do know who he was. Okay? The ones that just say, yeah, yeah, I read the book. Yeah, it was really good. You know, it's like, okay. But so.

Because, you know, he's.

He was just. He was just different. Okay. And. And he was a. He was a visual person also because he was, you know, as a forester, he really believed in. They did a lot of, you know, like, you know, photographic analysis of the terrain and stuff from airplanes back then. I guess they do them all by satellite now. So he was really always into geography and visual things. And he just loved. One of his. One of his visual.

Things that he liked to show cherry people was a cross cut of a tree, a pine tree. If you remember that. You can see that the growth. The growth lies in that thing. And how he looked at that image of a pine tree. That was, I don't know, 80, 90, 100 years old. And equate that to, you know, to.

You know, financial growth.

You know, that visual. So that's what kind of guy he was. He just, he just always thought outside the box. He talked, he talked in parables. He was, he was, he was a devout Christian and he didn't hide behind that, but it was just, it's ways what generated everything he did. And I remember when he'd do his seminars, you know, you remember he used to do two hours the first night.

Yep.

And to me, that was the best part. That was like, the two hours is like, wow. Then you just couldn't wait to get started again the next morning. And he kicked off the next morning, he, you ready to get going with it? And he say, listen, he goes, you guys know that I'm a Christian. And he's tell you when he, when he, you know, gave his life to Christ and whatever. And he says, if you guys aren't Christian or religious. I guess I want to expand that a little bit. I guess he said in what I'm talking about in the seminar doesn't mean anything. You and I must, we need to have a much more serious conversation. It was like, boom. You know what I mean? So it's like, wait a minute, I thought we're talking about infinite banking.

Okay, so he was a master storyteller. I like how you addressed kind of that visual arrangement. Because all of the analogies that he did and talked about that are in the book that are what were in a seminar, the things that he did on a consistent basis, they were all. He would walk you through something that you could picture it in your mind as he, he did it. And I think, you know, when you can take the words and you can vocalize that so someone can have a visual picture in their head. The ability for someone to take the information in and then, and then actually run with it, do something with it was really enhanced. That's something I felt, I personally really appreciated and loved about Nelson. I thought it was, it just made him such a, such a powerful presence, such a unique individual to be able to relay concepts and ideas to people. I mean, just, wow.

Yeah, we miss him every single day.

That is a very true statement.

But, you know, he gave us some pretty clear marching orders.

Build that 10%, fellas. Yeah.

One of the questions I'd like to capture from you, David, is just, you know, we had the pleasure and the privilege to be able to spend some time in your home and totally destroy your living room for the filming operation that took place for the documentary film. And I was really curious to hear maybe from you because some, you had shared that there were some things that came out of that and there's, there's so much footage obviously didn't make the actual documentary film. There's lots of stuff still yet to be somehow put out there that the public may be able to get or advisors may be able to have access to at some future point. But you had identified that there were some things that you were surprised that you, you had not necessarily heard him really go into depth on or speak about. When we were capturing some of those interviews, I was just curious maybe to get your take on the experience of doing that and going through that process while it was happening in your own living room.

Well, I mean, it was, it's.

You know, the wife factor plays a big part in that too. When somebody's going to film a one on one interview, you don't think that's much disruption like you said. But you know, when the film crew moves all the furniture out of the house.

It'S like, oops, you know, this is painful. But yeah, you know, I get, when Nelson gets on film, you know, he just, you never know what you're going to get.

And it's usually pretty funny. And I know you two guys did a lot of the interview or I guess you did all the interview and your questions.

Some of them he hadn't, he hadn't gotten to in a long time. Right. And there he had. Nelson hadn't really thought about him. And so, you know, his responses or whatever were some, you know, is what I was kind of referring to. It's like, yeah, I haven't heard that in a long time or I'd forgotten about that or whatever. And so, yeah, we have a lot of footage and that, that will be coming out. You know, we just, we just have to, you know, figure out the best way to do it. Because my thought was, you know, the first movies about the first pieces about Nelson's. Nelson as the man, as the Christian, as who he was. The second piece is more about ibc.

Yeah.

Okay, so that's, that's when you start seeing those things, I think. And just, just for a little plug here, one of the things that, that Carlos, Bob and I are doing in the institute is, is we're getting ready to produce a video series for the public. Okay, awesome. It's just gonna be, it's gonna be something that's not super grandiose, just a series for them.

So they can. They can hear it from us, what we think is important and what all this means. And so when they come and look for Jason Lowe and Richard Canfield, you guys will be speaking the same language, you know.

Absolutely. Definitely. Well, and so speaking of speaking the same language, so we want to let our listeners know infinite banking.org. that's infinitebanking.org that's a website that you will definitely want to visit. And David, we just appreciated having you as a guest on our show. And Richard, were there any closing comments that you wanted to share with our listeners as we wrap up this episode?

Well, I just. I think everyone who's had a chance to listen to this, I would absolutely encourage you to check out Nelson's website. You know, David is unbelievable representation of a strong leader that we need in the institute and to help carry and take forward Nelson's legacy.

Definitely.

And, you know, for me personally and Jason, I think you would echo this as an authorized practitioner, you know, I'm excited about what the future holds and how we can help continue to take Nelson's legacy forward to help more and more people. And so I believe that, you know, having a powerful individual like David at the helm to be able to help us see that vision come to life in Nelson's absence, gonna be really impactful. And I'm excited about what the journey holds. And, and I encourage our listeners to, you know, to keep tabs on it and follow along and.

Think about what. What this idea of building the 10% is all about. And if you're not sure what we're talking about when we say that, you can learn a little bit more about that by going to infinitebanking.org Definitely.

And David, any closing comments you'd like to share with our listeners?

Well, I just really appreciate the opportunity to share with you guys. It's always good to see you. Because, you know.

I've said this before, that I think per capita, the Canadians get IBC more than Americans do, you know, And I know there's differences in tax structures and things like that in the insurance industry up here, but you guys get it, okay? And not only do you get it, but you. You teach it correctly, which is critically important. That's kind of why we started the practitioner program, because we wanted to make sure that the public was being taken care of. Not only are they. I mean, getting the right policy is one thing, but being coached and mentored on how to use these things is very, very important. And so anytime we can promote that and get.

Folks like you on board, and tell people where to go and look for this. The right folks, the right practitioners, is an opportunity that I don't want to miss.

We appreciate that very much. And for listeners, as you're educating yourself on this process of becoming your own banker, the infinite Banking concept, what's so important is to work with an authorized Infinite Banking practitioner. And on the infinitebanking.org website there is a Practitioner Finder. So whether you're listening in Canada or whether you're listening in the United States, the Practitioner Finder makes it ridiculously simple to get in touch with someone, to connect with them right through the website. Submit your initial inquiry and be sure to ask as many questions as you have. We always share with folks, don't do anything with this process unless you feel that you have clarity. And that's one thing that an Infinite Banking practitioner who's authorized with the Nelson Nash Institute is going to be able to help you achieve that clarity and to be able to really understand the message in a way that Nelson intended the message to be delivered. And so, David, again, it was so good to be with you. We appreciate you. For all our listeners, this is another episode of Wealth Without Bay Street. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you real soon.

Thanks for listening to the Wealth Without Bay street podcast where your wealth matters. Be sure to check out our social media channels for more great content. Hit subscribe on your favorite podcast player and be sure to rate the show. We definitely appreciate it. And don't forget to share this episode with someone you care about. Join us on the next episode where we continue to uncover the financial tools, strategies and the mindsets that maximize your wealth.