218. Real Estate Investor Uses Infinite Banking in Quebec Canada

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What exactly should we know about investing in real estate in the fabulous province of Quebec? Well, we're going to learn all about it. We are joined today by Axel Mont St Jean, who is at the forefront of Quebec's real estate investment industry and has been for many years. He's an experienced operation professional with an economics and supply supply chain management degree and he's got an amazing podcast, the Real Estate Effect. We are going to learn all about the real estate effect and what he sees and how he's implementing real estate into his wealth journey and incorporating the infinite banking concept. And of course, I'm joined today with my co host today, who is Liliana Danila, who is a new member of our amazing and extended team operating in the province of Quebec. And we are going to have a fantastic conversation. I'm so excited to be with you both. Axel, welcome to the show today.

Hey, thank you for having me, Richard. It's a pleasure to be here.

Excellent, excellent. Well, and to kick things off, I would love to maybe have you just share with our listeners some point in time you left the corporate world and you have this corporate background, supply chain management, so forth, and you forged ahead and saw real estate as the path for you to begin your wealth journey. Talk us through a little bit about that, the decision to make that change and, and where that's led you to at this point in time.

Sure. So it's funny because so much has happened since that very moment of deciding to, I was going to say to part ways with the corporate world with my wife. We've been together for now a number of years, married for almost 10. We were both in the corporate world, no kids, making decent money and we felt like we were on the treadmill and that we could always do a lot more in life. And the birth of our first child was a huge trigger in pushing us to make decisions on how we want to live. We now have two kids, they're five and seven years old. And I am glad I don't have to ask someone to leave Work a bit earlier to take them to the doctors or take them to their pool class or music class or whatever it is. And so we ended up going into real estate because for a number of reasons, but most importantly because it was something that we understood. It's that simple. It was an asset class where we thought like, hey, we understand it, we can more or less control it. And we have fun doing it because we like to create places for people to live in and communities for people to make memories.

Well, I love that you mentioned communities. Now, I know from speaking with Liliana here recently that you're going to have some events around that community coming up recently. Now, Liliana, I think you're attending one of those events upcoming, and you've had a chance to get to know Ax a little bit, maybe share a little bit about your experience in connecting with him. And of course you're going to get the chance to see him next week. So speak a little bit about that.

Yeah. So nice seeing you, Alex. We still do see virtually, so by next week we have a chance to see in person. And I will be very happy to meet you and Rosalie in person. I would like to see from your point of view, how was the experience of engaging with the infinite banking concept and with us virtually?

Wow, that's a really good question because, you know, it's a very good point because I was kind of amazed actually by how well your process was laid out and scheduled. And I think you take a very good approach as a company as a mix of using the latest technology tools so that the.

Technology and making it easier for us. And at the same time, with my wife, we love to read and it always starts with good information. And so we did start by reading the very book that's actually behind you, Richard, becoming your own banker. We ended up getting one copy. We actually ordered a second one, and then we actually gave it to a family member. You'll be quite happy with that. We reading the book was very helpful because the concept itself of infinite banking is not rocket science, but you still need to wrap your head around it. And so in working with you as an organization, we found it was a good blend of the good old traditional way where you sit down and you read a book and using the latest technology tool because this process still took a couple of months from beginning to end. And in my mind, it was pretty seamless.

That's really awesome that you say this. Thank you for sharing that experience and. And more importantly, the experience of reading the book and thinking enough to order a second One so, and only that to give it to others. So that, that's a great indication. We, we see that happen quite frequently. My, my curiosity, you know, based on what you shared, Axel, what, what was it that connected with you in the book? You know, coming from the real estate sector and I believe your wife is a lawyer and her background is, is that correct? Yeah. So, you know, with a, you know, with well educated, you both have degrees, you're, you're, you know, professional class individuals forging ahead in this real estate journey. Young family. What are, what are some of the things that resonated with you as you read Nelson's book, becoming your own banker. And, and I'm really curious, maybe you can open up and just share for our listeners. Where did you see the connection points between the concept of infinite banking and what you're already doing in the real estate world?

Okay. There's so much to unpack over there. So yes, first of all, so my wife is a tax lawyer, so she understands these things fairly well. And then what, what happened is that in reading the book it just made us realize that first of all, we were lied to when we were young in school and how, on how things work. And.

That'S my opinion. I think the school system and even the university system trains people to be excellent employees and to be consumers, not to be.

Thinkers and to be investors. Because the entire concept of a dividend paying policy against which you can borrow yourself is really just rearranging your money flow. Money is literally a flow. It's a river, except, well, it passes by. We all have to create a source of it and then it's just how do we harness the energy from that flow? Do we just use it once and then it goes away? Or do we create a pond? Because in that pond then we can fish, we can take some of the water to grow vegetables, we can. There's so many different ways. So we're reading that book was helpful for us, was just kind of rewiring and rethinking of how we should just organize the finances so that on one side we can continue to have the lifestyle that we have. And real estate is a fairly capital intensive industry, let's be honest, and at the same time still grow a pool that we can keep reusing, reusing without paying that interest to somebody else. But to us and to our kids, we have two young kids and we're very happy now to be contributing more on this side than on other traditional.

Products for kids, let's just put it that way.

I absolutely love Your analogy. And it's so interesting that you use that and then also connected your kids in the same conversation. If I don't mind, if you don't mind, I'll share why recently we attended our annual conference. We have a conference for infinite banking professionals where we gather every year. Carla Think tank. I was blessed enough to be asked to emcee the event this year, which was a lot of fun. And a member who attended there, her name is Becca Wilhite. Wonderful gal. She actually has written a book that's a children's book. It's called Beaver Bankers and it is available on Amazon. And so she, she gave me a copy, I got her to sign it. And I've now read that book to both of my kids and they, they love it. And my daughter really likes it especially. And it's very interesting because the analogy of a pond and beavers damming a stream or a river to create an ecosystem that they can then create generational lifespans really of members of the beaver family and, and creating all the resources inside of this utilized in this children's book. And so you using a very similar description I just found very fascinating. So amazing. Love the analogy. And as you were saying it in my mind, I pictured, you know, you know, one of those wheels where it's create, it's, you know, the river's turning a wheel that's causing, you know, other things to be created, you know, generating electricity or whatever. So there's so much power in the flow of water as there is power in the flow of money. And really what you've identified is how we're trying to harness that power and contain it in a facility that allows us to do what we need to serve our family's needs. That's a fantastic description. I absolutely love it. I would literally jump through this phone and high five you if I could. Phenomenal. And when, when you think about, you kind of mentioned your, your children there a little bit. Axel. You know, I, we're very similar. I'm about to, you know, come up my 10th year anniversary with my wife as well. And our kids are 6 and 8. So we're right in the same track as. As you guys are. I'm. I would like to maybe understand, you know, the. You talked about the pivotal point of having your first child and how that led you guys to make the decision to really forge ahead in the real estate track. And I'm guessing a component of that was some legacy aspects that you are maybe thinking about now as a father, when you picked up Nelson's book and you went through it. I mean, there's a lot of conversation points about legacy in there, but also a different way of thinking about it. Was there some overlaps that you recognized between what Nelson shared in his message and your own journey that you were creating and acquiring properties and trying to build long term wealth in the real estate journey?

That's a, it's a good perspective. Frankly, in the book, it didn't jump at me. The aspect of the legacy where the book was really helpful, however, is to dive a little bit more into the details of how does this new system work? Because we had heard about it, but it was kind of like a little cloudy and a little unclear. Whereas in the book he goes into certain details of like, here's a gentleman, he's got a business, he needs to buy a truck, here's three ways he could finance the truck. And so that for us was like the click moment of, oh, this is how it's going to help us with the legacy. Because.

My wife and I, we don't come from like huge wealthy families, but our parents did fairly well. And I think both of our family culturally have been wanting to, to help the, the offsprings. Now sometimes it's financially, sometimes it's, it's obviously in other ways as well. And for us it was kind of natural to want to do this, but this as an occasion exactly outlined how to structure it. And this is where for us also with the real estate, the real estate, you invest long term, you can hold some buildings for three to five years and you keep rolling it forward, rolling it forward, but it's also a great vehicle for long term, long term wealth because you can actually pass it on to your kids. So to go back to your question, it was just.

A good way to simplify and in English, vulgarize how does the system work? So it can help and propel the, the long term wealth that can be passed on to our kids in a legacy. And our kids are too young for us to exactly explain to them, you know, all these buildings eventually, like the ones we haven't sold to pay for you to go to school, maybe one day they'll be yours. So we don't go there yet, but it's obviously in the back of our heads and sometimes we look, we look at them and we look at what we're doing and we're like, yeah, we're making the right choice.

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Somewhere along the line you made the decision to, you know, obviously take on a lot of extra work and start a podcast. So you know, the, the real estate effect. You've, you've been at it for a while now, sharing a lot of great information on there. What, what would listeners to your show, what would you expect? What do you want them to be able to take away as they're listening into your program? And what's one of the goals that for initiating that endeavor?

Sure. So it actually started as a game when we did our first real estate deals. I used to, so I was just coming out of the corporate world and I thought it was such a good idea for us to buy A5 units and renovate three of the units myself. You live and learn. You think it's going to take you three months, but it takes you nine. But it's part of the learning and journey. And throughout this period of renovation, I was force feeding myself a number of real estate podcasts every single day. And it was all us based. And I just thought, hey, at some point, like, wouldn't it be cool if there is something for Quebec? And you know, Quebec being Quebec, a lot of stuff is in French. People want to or because they're kind of forced, but there is no English real estate podcast. And I was like, you know what? I got over my imposter syndrome of hey, I'm not a huge investor. But I, I've started to learn a few things. Why don't I set up a platform so we can share conversations with successful investors and industry professionals? Because this is where I feel like I learned a lot from the US And I wanted to create a place where aspiring real estate investors were those who maybe bought 1, 2, 3 properties, but they're kind of stuck and they're trying to scale and, and, and, and they need a little bit of a push to have the confidence to be able to do it themselves. And again, it started as a game, except that now we're three years into it, we've never missed a week. And I take tremendous pleasure in interviewing people every single week. And then I hang up and it goes to production and editing and stuff. And every time I'm like, wow, that was cool. I would have never had this conversation with this person. And so I'm grateful for me, to be honest, but I'm also very grateful because I know it's helped people who've said, like, hey, I listen to it every week. Thank you for, for what you're doing.

As someone who's outside of Quebec. And to be fair, I've never visited, although it's on the list of things to do. And I said you're in the Montreal area, correct? Okay, great. I, I hear it's one of the most, you know, beautiful places in Canada to go and visit. And you know, Liliana likewise being there. You know, she was sharing a little bit with me the other day about some of the cultural things that are unique and different about Quebec. And I. And she had a really good question that I thought of or that, you know, she kind of shared with me. And I'd love for her to just extend it because she has her own experience in being there on the ground, boots on the ground and what's come up. So Liliana, what was it you were sharing with me the other day about, you know, your experience of working with people in Quebec?

Yeah, you know, people in Quebec, they are a little bit different and they think difference. The mindset is different, the rules in Quebec are different. Regarding an infinite banking concept, actually everybody in Quebec can implement it and can practice it exactly the way everybody else outside of Quebec is doing. But I was wondering regarding the real estate investments and coaching, if Axel, can you share with us, what is the difference for you doing real estate business in Quebec?

Well, so in a way, I don't know if I'm in such a good position to point out details because I've never done a transaction outside of Quebec, so I don't really know how it is elsewhere. However, now, luckily the most of the financing is the same throughout Canada. There are differences in terms of the transactional process. We, I think in the rest of Canada it's with an attorney. Here we do it with a notary. And then there's obviously different organizations that are involved. Quebec is fairly tenant friendly. We have a fairly strong organization called l', tal, the Tribunal Administrative Duologement, so housing court that resolves disputes that may. That may arise. And historically Quebec has been a very pro tenant and a strong proportion of the population is tenants versus owner. I think in the rest of Canada it's a little bit more owner. In Quebec it's been fairly tenant. And as much as Montreal is a big city, when you look at rental prices throughout the country, Montreal is one of the if Montreal is the biggest, is the cheapest big city. You take Montreal, you take Montreal, Toronto, I think it's fairly similar to Calgary and still Montreal is a bit below. And then to Vancouver. Let's not even compare because we're all going to get a headache. So Quebec in terms of culturally, and I'll allow myself to say this because I'm an immigrant, I grew up in the, in the French Caribbean and I immigrated after. So I feel like I do still have a, an outside point of view. I see stigma as frankly of religion and I see. And one of the consequences of that is sometimes the fear to actually talk about money. It's not culturally, it's not really good to talk about money. And if you're talking about it, it's because you're trying to take other people's which it couldn't be further from the truth. And so I think this kind of leads to certain biases, certain behaviors, certain mental reservations and.

Just bottlenecks that people impose themselves like limiting beliefs. And so hey, maybe sometimes those who are more open get to go a little faster ahead and, and those who get stuck in those old beliefs, that that's how they are. And.

You know, I'm not trying to paint Quebec in a particular way. I'm just sharing my, my perspective and the, what I've seen about money isn't necessarily good anyways. That's my, that's my two cents on it.

I think that's very interesting. And you know, I don't know if I had recognized that but now, you know, as you describe it in that way, you know, a lot of things kind of pop into focus for me from previous, you know, experiences connecting with people who are from, from the area. And I've, I've had nothing but wonderful experiences there. But I do, you know, now in reflection I can see almost a little standoffishness created around obviously being in the money business and in topics related to that I, I could recognize now in my past, you know, where that I've experienced some similarities there based on what you said. You know, a couple things that come up for me is so number one around the real estate being, being, being someone who's creating housing for people or, or buying and creating housing for people to live in a tenant focused environment. So that means you have a lot of customers, so that's good. It means you have a lot of opportunities to market the tenants. But again you also identified, you know, it's a very tenant friendly environment. You know, from the, from a laws perspective Maybe more, more likely that, you know, tenant maybe would win in an argument or something to that effect. So I would imagine that poses a lot of challenges to landlords, people who are looking to get into the real estate game in the Quebec marketplace, at least in the areas that you're working. And so that, that tells me is that in order to be really good at it, you need to sharpen the saw. You have to be working on how to make sure that you're doing things the right way. You're checking the boxes, crossing, you know, crossing the T's and so forth, so that you can really, truly minimize those potentials that happen. And I'm guessing that there's some horror stories that come out of that, and you've either heard them from other people or perhaps you've experienced a few on your own. And how would you say that, you know, what advice would you give to someone who's looking at investing in the Quebec marketplace, who maybe isn't aware of that they're coming from another province or outside of, and they're wanting to get into that market? What are some of the guardrails and things that you would really want them to be mindful of?

Sure.

So it's funny because I've spoken to other investors and I'm thinking of some, in particular in Ontario. They're like, oh, I'd love to invest in Quebec. It seems like prices are more attainable, but it scares me because of the language. And I can understand that, that, that, that perception. However, there are people who speak English that do all of their business in English and they're doing fantastic. So as a piece of advice, do not let your absence of French be a deteriorating barrier to the possibilities in commit. Number one, number two, because we have a very set of road tenant laws, I find it just in a way keeps us sharp because we then constantly have to find ways to be as close as possible to market in terms of how much revenue can a property generate. And I'll give you an example with that here. It became almost standard in newish, so fairly recent and new builds and even in retrofits to provide Internet for a lot of it. Some, some, some, some landlords choose not to, but a lot of people do now because it allows you, you get a connection for 150 bucks or 200 bucks, depending on the number of units, and then through several service providers, you're able to then split that and offer it to your tenants. And you say, look, hey, how much do you pay with your provider now? $65. I'll give it to you for 40. You don't have anything to worry about. Everything is already wired. But when you take that $40 and multiply by your number of units times 12, times 20, all of a sudden you might have added like $70,000 to your property value just because you provide Internet included in the rent. And that's just a tiny example of how we are then constantly forced to find creative ways to add value because we do not necessarily control all of the variables on the rent side.

So. So that would be another one. And lastly, I find it, and I guess it's relative also to the crowd we hang out with. But, like, I see a fair amount of real estate investors who are eager to get educated. And maybe there has been an evolution over time of more mom and pops investors. And I'll make a statement. I'm thinking of the Greek and the Italian immigrants who write 40 years ago and they said, hey, we're going to buy a 6 Flex. And then 10 years later they bought another 6 Flags and they just kind of sat on it. Now it's paid. They don't really optimize anything because, you know, whatever they get and rent it, like, straight into their pocket. And that went on for some time, and that's great because it worked out really well and that allowed them to create a legacy and wealth for their family. However, now there's also a new wave of investors who, hey, yeah, they're also here to make money. They provide housing, and they want to make sure that they treat every opportunity with the property in the most optimal way. So, I mean, we've all seen it in the news and people are crying of, like, the renovation and people being kicked out. Well, that's, that's a, that's a part of reality. Yes, but people can't expect to keep living for a $600 rent in a downtown location when the entire rest of the country has had inflation and rents. So, anyways, I'm going on a tangent on a can of warm, but where I want to come back to is that is education is really, really important. So when you come into Quebec from the rest of the country, just kind of understand who does what and how does it work.

Well, it's interesting that you mentioned that. And so what that leads me to think about is, you know, rent controls. And many provinces in Canada do operate with some form of rent control, including British Columbia and Ontario. And so I'm assuming the same thing applies in Quebec. So how you know that that would probably minimize how you're able, not only the amount that you're able to increase rents, but the periods of time that you're able to do it and when you're able to do it. So that, that creates some restriction on your ability to create cash flow. So these alternative ways of, creative ways of creating it, taking a problem that's put in front of you and finding a solution. I really love that. I think that's fantastic. But also, you know, you've kind of indicated that it's almost reset the market expectation. So because it's been happening by people, well, now there's an expectation by the tenant marketplace, which is a large proportionate of the marketplace to say, well, why would I come and rent from you? You know, Axel, when Liliana over here is, you know, offering me Internet, you know, for a better deal and I don't have to pay for the hookups. So it creates, you know, it's, that's a really good indication of how the market itself shows up and how you need to read and understand the market. And so I would imagine when you do your gatherings, because you have a couple coming up here, you know, we're recording this in April. You have I think two gatherings coming up this month. And, and roughly how frequently do you meet with your community, Axel? Do you, do you connect with people regular? Do you have a little gathering?

Yeah, we. So right now we're kind of back to almost a monthly basis. It's just that this month of April has been a bit hectic. So there's two and then we'll go until about June, then we'll take a little bit of a break in the summer and then we'll restart in, in the fall. And all of this started just because with, with the podcast at some point I just want to get people together and it's a fairly simple meeting. Like we, we meet in a, in a bar or restaurants and I'm not selling anything is just for people to meet to be with like minded individuals and investors. And there's also a few industry professionals who come and you know, it's, it's fun, it's fun.

So, so how would someone, you know, if they're in the area and they wanted to participate in one of these events, how would they attend? Would they go to your website to do that? Would be the best. Listen to one of the podcast episodes to be able to learn more about it. How would they best learn to be able to join your community and connect in one of these live sessions?

Sure. Thank you. They, they can connect directly on Instagram or LinkedIn. And we also advertise all of the events on Eventbrite and otherwise they can visit my website, Realestate Effect ca. All the information is there, it's on the front page. And be happy to meet them and once they do, please let me know that you heard about it on this very podcast.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, awesome. So those are fantastic resources. We'll make sure they're, they're down in the show notes. And it's, it's funny because it, it reminds me based on some of the things you indicated how, how, you know, there's almost like a, a bit of a hesitation for people to open up and talk about money. It ties into something that Liliana was sharing with me that, you know, folks in Quebec, from her experience, they really want to be able to meet in person. They want to be able to get a one on one connection before they maybe open up too much. So the idea of like virtual meetings can be a little bit, maybe hesitant to be able to have that, especially around a financial conversation. And so she, she shared a little bit about the experience of, of herself in that regard. And I think that opportunity for people to get in person makes a big difference probably in your environment in real estate. And perhaps it may as well for people learning to discover the infinite banking concept. But one of the things I really connected with in one of your takeaways is just, just how valuable it was for you and your wife to be able to have access to resources. So the book becoming your own banker as a learning tool. So maybe speak a little bit to what you found in your journey on learning about the infinite banking concept, beginning to implement that in your life. And likewise in probably just learning about real estate, how have you found access to different resources that you can get at your fingertips valuable in your journey of educating yourself?

There is so many resources, and in a way that's precisely the problem. Now the difficult thing is knowing which ones to follow, which ones to listen to. I had heard originally about the concept literally about three or four years ago, and I was like, interesting, But I never dug deep enough and pushed myself to be like, hey, is this actually something I want to do? As a side note, and I'll share it with you because nobody else is listening, is that when we actually understood more exactly of how it worked and how simple it is, in a way, we just kind of looked at each other with Rosalie and we're like, should have done this 10 years ago. And seriously, for anyone who's listening, if you're already listening to the podcast, you have interest. You've already probably listened to the book. Do not wait. Contact Leviana and get on with it now because time is ticking. Time is something that you'll never get back and then don't do like me, where three years later you're like, oh, I wish we had done it a little while ago. Start now. It's not that complicated. You just need to understand how it works. Just think about it. We, we borrow money, we use somebody else's resources and we pay the bank. Why don't we just pay ourselves and, and leave it to our kids eventually? Like for us, it was a big eye opener. Also when we had a presentation with Jason and he said it in very simple terms of like, hey, here's how it works here, here are some of the benefits. And being in real estate. Yeah, we, we, we, we all feel like we always, we're always $2 million short now for the projects. But that's another conversation. We have a big vision but, but it's just that it's just a great way to recycle and to build your own pond, your own lake, so you can do your own things with it later and reach out to ascend. They're so easy to get in touch with. I mean I've dealt with Liliana, I've also dealt with, with Sore Blow, who's been absolutely fantastic throughout the process, like hands down recommend.

Oh, we appreciate that. I mean, glowing recommendations. Absolutely love it. Thank you for that. And what's interesting is I think about all of what you've just shared and the timing is really important. Time, time is going to go by no matter what. And when, when's the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago? The second best time is right. There's so many things that, you know, our brains don't understand what, what's available to us until we learn about something new. But once you learn about something new, you, it's very difficult to unlearn it. Unlearning is twice as hard as learning something new. And so when you're exposed to the idea of this concept now you know it's available. You know, I really think people owe it to themselves to, to, to delve deeper the same idea. When you learn about someone who's hey, they're doing multi slime real estate investing or they're doing land develop, they're doing a type of real estate that it's showing a lot of success and they, they can teach you or mentor you or guide you on how to do that, you want to pay attention if it's something you now know you can do. If there's interest there, follow that interest, create some, drive some curiosity and, and go deeper, find out if it's the right path for you to go. And really anything in the financial category that piques your interest, you should really be delving into more and getting that clarity because it might be the path that takes you to the things that you have in your vision, in your mind's eye. And so the fact that infinite banking has, is going to play a role with that for you and your family, your young family's life, I think, is phenomenal and I love hearing it. And I can only imagine as you think about cycling capital for projects that you have in the future. There's something I was on a conversation recently with somebody and a real estate investor and realtor out in the Ontario marketplace, and he just said to me, like, you know, since we implemented this, there's a feeling that we have in the household. There's a peaceful feeling that didn't exist before. And there's just this knowledge that when we need capital, if we have to, we can get it from different places, but we always know that this is one that we can tap into. And it just, it's just changed the whole dynamic of how they have peace of mind in their household and they didn't know that that was going to be there. So when Nelson Nash talks about the infinite in infinite banking concept, it's the things that you can't see on a piece of paper they don't show up on a real estate performer. You know, when your kids are old enough that they can start, you know, they can help hand the keys to the tenant in one of the properties and they can learn going through a walkthrough inspection and they can start to take some ownership and responsibility that doesn't show up on paper on the performa of that piece of real estate. But the lesson that's created for them as they move forward in their own life's journey and they maybe inherit some of that real estate from you, they're going to be positioned in such a way where they know what to do, so the skill and the learning opportunity almost becomes as valuable as the real estate itself. Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, it completely makes sense. And in a way, I was going to build on top of that to say that in any of those moments, and regardless of where we're at in the way, whether it's through, we talked about the real Estate, whether it's in the journey of changing our relationship to money. The great thing is that one, we're not alone because you've great, you've created a fabulous community around that. So if you have questions, sometimes it's almost embarrassing to be like to, to go ask those who are in charge because we feel like they're going to give us exactly the answer they want. Just, just go ask someone else in the community. How did they do it? How did they get started? How did they change their lives? Because that's the best way to get, I don't want to say a different angle, but just sometimes a little bit more to. Not a reality check, but like, anyways, the community aspect is so important because if you're listening to this and you're contemplating it, by the time you will have done, you'll realize you're not the first. It's okay.

Yeah, I really appreciate that. And that's one of the reasons why we have our client series playlist for the podcast which you know, is available on our YouTube channel. But additionally, you know, we have quarterly, you know, group coaching sessions which those to me are some of the most engaging and my favorite parts to participate in because number one, I get to have my other team members, Liliana's, everyone else participates in facilitating that. So that's a lot of fun. We're engaging in different content and then of course there's all kinds of great questions and stories that are shared by folks just like yourself and your wife talking about a utilization point or asking clarification about something. And those become such great opportunities. And one of the other positive benefits, not unlike the in person meetings that you're hosting, of course we are doing them virtually and that's simply because, you know, not everyone can jump on a. Yeah, we're all over Canada, so it's, it's pretty difficult to have, you know, have events like that. So. But from a virtual standpoint, we have breakout rooms and so we try to mirror as much as we can that group connection environment that you can get in person. We just do it with the tools that are at our disposal and what comes out of those conversations are just really, you know, they're. Oh, it's always, it's like, it's like learning something new. You never know what you're going to discover. You never know what, what someone else is going to share. A person who either has a challenge or a struggle or a way that they've utilized the concept and it's really an amazing way to learn. So A lot of the learning is in a communal level versus at, you know, hey, the ascendant coach is teaching everything. No, the ascendant coaches are sharing what they know and inviting everyone to participate in that experience. And it becomes a wonderful way to both collaborate, make good connections, build relationships. And you never know what relationship you're going to create on the road of life. That could be a pivotal moment to some other jumping stone in your. In your path. I imagine now, having your own podcast and having guests and experiences and interviews, you've probably recognized some of that, how it appears, you know, or a real estate deal that you jumped into, and maybe there was a Realtor or a professional or an appraiser, someone that you met on that journey that you didn't anticipate that now is connected to your real estate business, and they're part of your. Your circle that you now use on a regular basis.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And so just to backtrack, like at the events when going to conferences, and everybody who's listening, you can. You can relate to this. I call those the $2,000 moments, where, you know, it's hall con conference in the hallway, and you're having a conversation, someone says something and you're like, wait, wait, just rewind a little bit. What did you just say? What do you mean by that? And for me, Those are the $2,000 golden nuggets where you're like, really? You can do that? How does that work? And then within five minutes, you're like, oh, my God. And that was worth your entire day. It was worth the trip. It was worth everything. And so that happens when people are intentional about it, to join on virtual events, to join in person and to go put themselves in. In that situation, to be a little bit vulnerable at the same time, to be open to. To it, because we can. We can all learn from each other. And then, yeah, for the podcast, how many times did I hang up after recording? And I was like, wow, I'm so happy we had this conversation. Thank you. So, yeah, you just got to put yourself out there, and it's amazing what comes back.

I love that. That's amazing. Well, I mean, you're up to some really big things. You're doing things uniquely in an environment that is already a bit unique on its own, the province of Quebec, and so appreciate all that you're doing, the value that you're adding for other people. You know, one of the things that we like to do, Axel, on this program is we like to recognize where people are on their journey. With the things that they're already doing, how they're adding value into the world. And so you're doing a lot of that with your podcast, with sharing the things that you know to be true. Being someone who's an immigrant to Canada, but also an immigrant to the environment of Quebec, recognizing that maybe the learning journey is different in that culture slightly. You're bringing a lot of openness for people to. To bring them out of their shell, maybe a little bit, talk about financial topics in real estate. So you're creating a platform for them, which is wonderful. So the question I have for you, you know, as we close our show today, is who would you most want to be a hero to?

Ooh, I was going to say my kid, but only have two of them. You know, I'm going to bring it back to the podcast where it's sometimes a bit difficult because it's actually a lot of work. And all people here see is, you know, 30 minutes a week. But to make this 30 minutes, it takes a lot more time. But the satisfaction that I get when I meet someone at an event or at a meeting or wherever it is and say, oh, you're the guy with the podcast. Hey, thank you. Because, you know, you had so and so on your show and he said this and it really helped me. And sometimes it's like a year and a half ago and I'm like, great. I'm so happy. This was beneficial, and for me, that filled the bucket. So I want to be a hero to those who are looking to get into real estate that are just starting, and they just need a bit of a push when it comes to their confidence in being able to achieve.

I love that. Well, confidence, being able to achieve it. Your goals in real estate or your goals in implementing the infinite banking concept? What a great way to end. For those of us watching on YouTube, right down below, you'll see a recommended video to help encourage you to grow your confidence in that very area. Learn more about the infinite banking concept and potentially some real estate while you're at it. Thanks so much for joining us on the show today. Axel, Liliana, Amazing. Have an incredible rest of your day, both of you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Richard.

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