278: Attracting Clients by Owning Your True Value with Derrick Kinney

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Okay, so from overlooked to overbooked, that's not just a clever phrase, it's a hard won reality for our guests today. We're super pleased to be joined by Wall Street Journal and US today, USA Today rather national bestselling author. And he built a top performing financial firm, served high net worth clients. And then he did something that most advisors only dream about. He literally cracked the code on how to attract the right clients consistently, confidently and without the typical sales pressure. And so today, Garrett Kinney, who was introduced to me from a dear friend of mine, Shannon Hodges. Shannon, if you catch this episode, shout out to Shannon Hodges. He's an amazing guy. Derek Kinney joins us on today's wealth on Main street episode to share the exact conversation framework that took him from being invisible to being in demand and how you can use that same approach to hit your next big growth goal. So, Derek, welcome to the show. We got a lot to unpack and can't wait to dig in. Thanks for joining us.

My pleasure. Thank you, Jason. And it's funny you mentioned Shannon. He's a longtime friend, my neighbor, literally across the street. And it just goes to show you the power of one person thinking, I think I know someone who could help you as well. It's the power of relationship. But it's a real pleasure to be with you today. Thanks for having me.

Oh, it's. We're honored to have you. And I'll open it with like, you built a obviously a thriving firm and then you chose to teach others the exact words, the exact actions that worked for you. And so what was that moment when you realized, I need to get this message into the hands of other advisors?

Well, let me go back a little bit. So every year I go on a yearly sabbatical. So I take about five days completely by myself. And, and I asked myself three questions. How do I be a better husband? How do I be a better father? And how do I be a better business owner? So those three questions guide my time. And what I realized a couple years earlier was I'm an a personality guy, like to set big goals and run really fast. But I tend to set so many goals. I can run so fast that I run in a circle. And that's a big Problem. Right. And so those three questions really guide me. And I figured I need to take at least five days to, to figure out the bullseye. So I know where I'm running toward the rest of the year. It just makes sense. And so this was July 2019. I'm in Boston. I always like to be by the water. And as I'm kind of prayerfully considering what I want to do, I begin to write a list out of all the things I would enjoy doing. And I wrote down, write a book, launch a podcast, coach, speak. How could I replicate my recurring revenue business into another business? And but shockingly, Jason on that list was not being a financial advisor. That's what I knew. That's what I knew. And it was that moment where it's sort of like when you watch your favorite athlete and you say to yourself, they should have retired like two years ago at the beat. You know, I didn't want to be that guy. And what I realized, I called my wife and said, honey, are you sitting down? And actually, it wasn't surprising to her. She saw the signs for a while and. And I had seen it as well. I was kind of going through the motions. Wasn't that I didn't enjoy what I was doing, but I knew I was being called to something bigger. And that's when I decided to sell. Was basically January of 2020, right before COVID hit found a really good buyer. And what I found was the whole exercise was an exercise of humility. Because you like to think you're like the best advisor there is, right? Nobody could be better than you. And the goal is you want to find someone who truly is better than you. You're actually handing them up and not handing them off. And so it was in that moment I realized I've always run my business differently. I bet I could take this framework and really a lot of the mistakes that I made along the way and help a lot of advisors as they climb their mountain to success, help them avoid a lot of the potholes and the pitfalls, and that could be valuable to a lot of people. Wow.

It's incredible, Rich.

I think it's amazing. I love the idea the, the hand up versus the handoff and, and just the recognition. I think the analogy of the, you know, your favorite sports person is a perfect thing. A lot of people will resonate with that. And, you know, we just came off an interesting podcast where Gentleman had a 35 year career in, you know, law enforcement and had a similar thing. He kind of knew it was time, but Decided to stick it out for a couple more years anyway because he still loved it and enjoyed it. And sometimes when you love and enjoy something, Derek, and maybe you found this especially not just in your own environment, but with some of the other people that you've chosen to serve now, it can be difficult to make that decision because it's not so much what you're giving up, but there's if you still are enjoying it and you still love it and you're good at it, maybe you just aren't enjoying it or loving it enough in compared to something else that's pulling you another direction.

Rich, that's so well said. And you know, one of the biggest challenges I had that I wasn't expecting was being questioned. A lot of well meaning people questioned my decision. In my world, I thought, this is a bold, courageous move. I'm going to follow my passion, my heart. I'm monetizing what I work so hard to build. But one of my clients, and by the way, before I say that, I made it a goal to call all of my clients individually to let them know about my decision. And I got this lesson because growing moving to Texas in the sixth grade, I had a dentist for like 25 years. And it was more than a dentist relationship. It was the person. I actually enjoyed going to the dentist because we would talk business and money. He was an entrepreneur. Well, one day he drops on me. He says, derek, this is going to be the last time I see you. I'm like, what do you mean? He said, well, I'm retiring. And it was this shock and awe approach of like, what happened? Where's the warning? Where's the preparation? And I just made a mental note. One day, if I ever sell my business, I do not want any of my clients feeling like I feel right now. I felt abandoned. And so I called each one of my clients and let them know of my decision. And the emotions were crazy. Some people cheered me on. Derek, you're actually doing what you have helped us do. Some people got mad. I can't believe you're bailing on us right before we're going to retire you. You hit the road. One lady, though, she summed it up the best. She said, derek, if you're going to have a midlife crisis, just buy a Corvette. It's a whole lot cheaper and easier.

That is awesome.

But I got to tell you, so. So it took about a month and a half to call these people because when you call your clients, it's like pressing a movie player and you replay all of their history and their goals and their dreams and all the things you've walk.

I'm not too vulnerable to admit this. The last call I made, it was mid February. I actually broke down in tears. It was so emotional that I had a. Completed the whole thing, but that I was actually being true to myself. I'm like, I did what I wanted to do. I ran this race strong, and now I'm handing these people off to somebody who I believe is going to take really good care of them. The entire team was in place and still in place. And what I. What I learned was I excelled well in an existing system, and now the game was, how could I create a new system and build a new business out of that? And so that's what I learned and I. And it has benefited me a couple years later.

That's amazing. And, you know, for viewers and listeners, you should know. So Derek has a book as well. And Derek, your book, titled Good Money Revolution, is about creating wealth and meaning at the same time. So what, what is the core belief behind this idea and why does it resonate so deeply right now?

Yeah, it's interesting. So prior to selling my practice a couple years before I made that decision, I began to hear this vibe in culture that people would talk about. They say, derek, I don't want to make a lot of money because people will think less of me. And I was floored. I was like, what are you talking about? The whole game is how do we make more money? Right? That's what you're paying me to help you with. And then they would talk about, well, look at Jeff Bezos. He's. He's so successful at Amazon and he certainly must be oppressing all of the workers there so he can have all the money. I said, well, how do you know that? Well, that's just what I read. And what I began to realize was so much of culture was beginning to vilify the wealthy, the people who had the money and the wherewithal to make all the difference in the world. They were beginning to feel like, oh, no, you're the enemy. You need to kind of take it down a bit. And what that meant was the less money they had, the less impact that they would have on people. And so the whole premise of the book is just hitting that hard and saying, look, don't just make money. The goal. If you make a bulging bank account, your number one goal, that's going to lead to burnout and you're going to put your family to the side and put your Friends at the side and hit the mountaintop. You're going to look around and it's really lonely up there. Your voice is just going to echo and that's just not right. Instead, I want you to make more money, make a lot of it by adding huge value to people's lives and then use it for good and then use a cause that you care about. For example, mine was I loved investing in the lives of young people and helping them advance and giving them the skills they need to succeed. And so that's what I built my business on. And clients were attracted to my business because of my education, focus. It was just so easy. High net worth. Clients love to work with people. It gives them a sense of status when they work with professionals who are involved in the community. And so the whole framework of the book is go make more money and then do more good with it. And then because you're feeling good about it, you want to make more money to feel even gooder, if that's a word. But that's the revolution. It just keeps spinning and spinning. But it turns this whole cultural issue of money is bad and flips it over and says, money is not bad. It's what you do with it that counts.

Oh, I agree completely. And when you mentioned Jeff Bezos, what's interesting too is that while first and foremost to our viewers and listeners, get your hands on a copy of the book. Good luck putting it down. Thank us later. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. And when you mentioned Jeff Bezos, it's so interesting because what we often share, if we're, whether we're on a webinar or at a live event, when you watch film, when you watch movies, most often the wealthy are portrayed as the villains. And Jeff Bezos was being interviewed in some economic forum and he was being challenged on his wealth. And he said, well, if I can just invite you to look at this through a different lens. I presently own 16% of Amazon.

Stop and think about that for a moment in terms of the wealth that I've created for so many others who own the remaining percent of Amazon. And you could just hear the crickets in the room.

Yes.

And because it was just. He didn't respond defensively, he didn't try to rationalize or justify his wealth. He just helped people to look at it from a different vantage point and went on to describe, you know, very similar things. Like any occasion that I have to be in a room with people who are blessed, like the three of us are, to Be in financial abundance and to recognize that money just amplifies more of who you already are. If you're a kind, giving, generous person, the more money you have, the more kind, giving and generous you'll be. When I'm in circles like that, I'm surrounded by some of the most kind, generous, giving people, whether it's giving of their wisdom, their time, their energy. And so when you think of the advisors that work with high net worth clients, what do high net worth clients wish advisors knew before but often didn't take the time to learn? So if you think of a high net worth client considering working with an advisor, what do they wish advisors knew but often don't take the time to learn?

Well, there's two things that I have discovered and a lot of these were discovered by many mistakes I made. Jason. But what I realized is it's really a simple approach. And there's two things to be magnetically irresistible to a high net worth prospect. Number one is you need to own a problem and you also need to have a cause that you care deeply about. So let me touch on own a problem. And here's a practical example of that. Let's say that you're in a, you're in a social event in your community, you've got your favorite drink of choice and you're mingling around the room and you meet a person who asks you, hey, what do you do for a living? And you say, well, I'm a financial advisor. And they say, oh, okay. Then you ask them what they do and he says, well, I help people exercise and eat better so they can, you know, be in better shape. I'm a personal trainer. Oh, great. And then you ask a few other questions. Well, then as the evening goes on, you meet a woman later on and she asks you, hey, what do you do for a living? And you say, well, I'm a financial advisor. She says, oh, okay. And then you ask her and she says, well, you know how busy business owners and entrepreneurs, they work hard every day to put others above themselves. But often they want to be healthier but don't know what to do. They don't have the time to do it. I custom tailor workout and eating plans that fit into their budget and their schedule so they can look good and feel good. But most importantly, one day they can be the cool grandparent that has the energy to chase their grandkids across the floor. It's why I love being a personal trainer. Pause. All right, let's say that a week goes by and you're at home, you're looking in the mirror and you say, I need a personal trainer. Which personal trainer would you be more likely to call the first one you met or the second one you met?

Second, hands down.

And why would that be? Why would the second one be the.

Hands down choice Stories, connection and relevance.

Stories, connection, relevance. That's exactly it. And the whole point of that is when you tell someone, I am a financial services professional, I'm a financial advisor, you can see people's eyes glaze over, they want to leave the conversation. And what you don't realize is you're battling a bias that they have against financial advisors and it's personal for everybody. You don't know this. All you said is I'm a financial advisor. They might be thinking, I've heard financial advisors lose money for people, they're expensive to work with, they rip people off, whatever that is. And you did nothing except say, I'm a financial advisor. And so the better way, the instant way to connect with a high net worth prospect is if you want to make it rain, connect with pain. So you've got to say an immediate financial pain point. For example. Here's a couple examples. Rich, you know how so many people worry about running out of money in retirement?

I have heard that.

Yes.

It's immediate. Or you know how so many successful business owners and entrepreneurs lose sleep at night worrying if their next generation is going to lose all they worked hard to build? Yeah. You know how so many people worry about the next generation or their kids or grandkids being entitled and they're going to spend all they worked hard to save? Yeah. It's just like if you were to say to the parent of a teenage daughter, does it ever feel like when you talk to your daughter what you say goes in one ear and out the other. It's visceral, it's immediate and it's, it's an immediate pain point. And so the whole goal here is if you want to open that door to a high net worth prospect, you want to connect with pain instantly. You're simply telling them something that they immediately understand. You're not over impressing, you're not overselling, you're not bringing your credentials to the table. All of that is a loser's game. And the whole point of that is this entire dialogue you've not said at all, I'm a financial advisor. The goal is you introduce the relationship as a pain point and you and your framework have the solution to the pain and then you give them the emotion. You Tell them. And then that allows people to have confidence and peace of mind. That's why I love what I do. And that's the whole point. That's how you truly connect. And then when you have a cause you care about, for example, it might be as simple as, as crazy as this is. But it helped me acquire my first million dollar client. At age 26, I went to my local high school and began to recognize a teacher and a student of the month. I gave the teacher a $50Amazon gift card. The student a $25Amazon gift card, took a picture with all of us. And the principal put down the newspaper. And a woman calls me. And I began to get calls. A few months later, she says, derek, we want to work with you. We know you're young, we know you're new. But what she said changed everything. She said, derek, we want to work with you because you care about what we care about. That's when it clicked. I didn't have to be the best looking, didn't have to be the most well connected, didn't have to be the smartest. I just needed to care about what my ideal high net worth clients cared about. And that was it.

That is so powerful. And given that a lot of our viewers and listeners are advisors, whether they're life license advisors or financial advisors, they tune into our content. You know, they get a lot of value from it. And one of the questions that I had prepared for our time as well is that we, we see it as well in our interactions. We, we coach advisor groups more so on the area that we specialize in. And we see sometimes where advisors might just be trying a little bit too hard when they're expressing their client conversations or prospective client conversations. And so what are some signs that you've identified that an advisor is trying too hard in client conversations? And how do you help them relax into authenticity?

Yeah, great. Well, that's the million dollar question right there, Jason. I love that. So let's take you now inside to a visit with a prospect. And by the way, I call them visits and not meetings. Meeting you have with your proctologist.

A visit you have which is someone you care about. It's warm, friendly, inviting. Let's have a visit together. High net worth prospects love to visit meetings, feel like they're going to be sold something. So again, you want to pay attention to the biases that people have. But let's say we're now in the visit in the office. Perhaps the biggest cardinal rule sin number one that most people make is most Financial professionals, we are problem solvers at heart. We see a problem, we want to bring a solution. And picture this. I will often ask from the stage, how many of you have had a great visit with a prospect? It went great. Like, you knew, they asked you questions, you helped them solve things, and when they left, they mysteriously ghosted you and they never came back. And hands go up all over the room. And I said, well, one of the reasons for that is you chose to solve the problem and not stir the problem. Okay, so let's say someone asks, well, should I do this type of policy or this type of policy, should I have a Roth ira, traditional, whatever it may be, you don't want to answer any specific questions. The whole goal of that visit is you want to stir concern and stir the problem, not solve the problem. And what that looks like is, okay, so your concern is which type of policy might be best for you. And then you want to have them see you type. Okay, so you want to know what policy, because you might use AI to record everything, but they need to see you working, they need to see you listening actively, and then they need to hear you murmuring out loud. Okay. Needs help deciding what policy? Okay. Then you want to ask, is that something you like my help with? Yeah. Okay. Would like my help determining what policy is best? Okay. What other concern do you have? So the whole goal is that visit is the only problem you're solving for them is you're solving their question in their mind, is this person empathetically capable to solve my problem? Do they have the ability to understand and listen to what my pain points are? Because the worst thing to do, if you jump in with any advice and you're going to have to fight, the words are going to jump out of your mouth, you have to shove them back in and make sure you don't solve the problem. The goal is stir the problem. But one of the things I found, and this is going to sound so simple, but when I do these top 1% workshops with top advisors around the country, they realize all they need are the small tweaks. And I tell them, I'm not here to change your life. I'm not here to change your business plan. I just want to give you the small tweaks. And one of the small tweaks is asking what I call a personal question. So let's say that we're having a dialogue, Jason, and we're talking about retirement and education, the second home you want to buy. And I were to ask you, hey, Jason, what would you say is the biggest financial mistake you've ever made. Well, you might answer that, however you're going to answer it. But that's in the shallow part of the pool. The way I asked it and the order I asked it, that's like how everybody else asks it. Instead, you want to dive deep into the deeper waters. And the way to do that is you want to prepare the person for the question. Instead, you want to say, hey, Jason, could I ask you a personal question? And by the way, you don't have to answer it if you're not comfortable. Pause. Now, see, what I did there was I prepared you for the depth of the question. And in your mind, you're thinking, my gosh, what is he going to ask? Is he going to ask about when I was in high school? I mean, who knows? And so whatever I ask will always be less than the worst possible thing I'm going to ask. And so then what I'll say, then you might even say, well, why? Why would you ask me a personal question? And then I then say, listen, all the work we do for each client is so individual and so custom tailored. We want to get to know you deeply and candidly. I want to ask about some mistakes you've made. So working with us, we don't have those happen again. Then they laugh, and then they go deeper. With you, the whole game is in a short amount of time, the game is how quickly can you build rapport and relationship and surface level questions do not achieve that goal. Diving into the deep water. Let me in. The way, even your tone, Jason, do you mind if I ask you a personal question? See, one of the things in Texas, where I live, and this can teach us a lot about communication. You talk about empathy and authenticity. Brisket. I love a good brisket. Now you're wondering, Derek, why are you bringing up brisket on a podcast? How brisket is cooked can give us all a great communication lesson. You see, brisket is cooked low and slow. That's exactly right, Richard. And so when the stakes are high, you see this. Let's say a man is called on a church to pray. He's not expecting it. His voice goes up five octaves. He talks really fast. Oh, a woman is called on by surprise. And the biggest example of this would be, let's say you. You're at the point of talking about how you get paid. So many advisors, they lean in, they feel tense, they talk fast, their voice goes higher. And what that does is it brings us a level of anxiety to the table and now the prospects are like, I guess we gotta be on guard here. Instead, we want to just. I'm gonna step from the microphone here. We want to just.

We want to lean back. We want to have open body language so they see your face, your torso. And we want to talk about. Let me now share with you how we work with our clients and how we get paid. And it's important for them to clearly hear the words how we get paid. So it's out in the open. There's no wondering, there's no and then you're just talking like a doctor would deliver bad news to a patient. The doctor doesn't get excited to deliver a terrible cancer diagnosis. They're thoughtful, empathetic. They speak slowly. And if you want to sound instantly more authentic and credible in any part of your life, with your kids, with your spouse, with your co workers, your clients, just talk a little bit lower and talk a little bit slower, and you automatically command a more authority and are perceived as much more credible in whatever you're doing.

And very collected and calm and confident.

Yes.

Yeah. That's incredible. That's absolutely incredible. And so many advisors who are listening really take notes here. And as I've mentioned, and I'll say it again, get your hands on a copy of Derek's book. Do it right now. Just click the link. We'll have a link in the show Notes. You can find it there.

Get a copy of that book sent to you.

You'd be glad you did, Rich.

I love the. The framework and the mindset. And it's interesting. There's. I feel so connected to a lot of it, Derek, because I can picture doing things like this in this nature, in my own practice and serving people. And I think for. For me, a lot of it comes from just innate curiosity and actually wanting to know, like, you know. Yeah. Do you mind if I ask you a personal question? And I do want to know. I'm curious. And that curiosity drives the insights. And it's like, well, if there's a way to help you, we don't even know what it is that we're trying to help you with yet until we uncover it. So let's. Let's go down that journey together and see what it is that you actually are looking to have service on. So, you know, the mindset and the framework, I think is fantastic. And the analogy of brisket, I mean, not only does it make me hungry, it also makes me really appreciate the thought process that went into crafting it.

Well, thanks. It's so funny as you talk about that word curiosity. And so many I find not, not just new advisors, but there's this perception that I always have to be the smartest person in the room. And this is something cost me dearly. Early on I was a 26 year old advisor. I looked like I was 13 for goodness sakes. Not a shred of gray hair, no wrinkles. And my game was how can I over impress you and oversell you to get you to become my client? And what happened is it had the adverse effect. Until one day I realized, wait a minute, there's got to be a better way. I was tired of being overlooked by the high net worth prospects. I knew I could help. And I wondered why are they working with that person? I mean, in all humility, I am better than that person. Why are they working with them? And it made me mad. And that's when I realized, wait a minute, Derek. Words equal wealth. The right word spoken at the right time, said to the right person, describing the right painful problem leads to great profits. Because the goal is you've got a couple seconds to instantly connect with a high net worth prospect. And right now, whether it's summertime social time, you are always going to be asked, hey, what do you do for a living? And that's the moment. Now what you want to do is, and what I tell people as I, as I'm on stages and so forth is think about 5 and 5. The way to determine what is a relatable problem for you and your perspective clients is think about your last five, five clients that you brought on. And by the way, this exercise is so practical because it lets you see what is my trend right now for new business. Some people wake up and they say why am I working with this client? I didn't even want to work with this client. Well, that's your trend number. So you want to look at the past five and ask yourself what was the problem they came to you to solve? Then second of all, what was the emotion they were feeling when they came to you? And how did they feel when you help them solve that problem? Might be worried about running out of money. They were nervous and anxious and they left confident, whatever that may be. And then you want to look at your five favorite clients. These are the ones that any advice you give them, they're all in. It's like they would vote for you every single day with every dollar they've got. They just believe in you. When you see their name on your calendar, you get excited, then ask what are the problems you Solved for them. I call that your focus group. So it's a cheap and easy way to find out in my current book of business, what is the core problem I find myself solving. So if you're happy with that, then you do more of that. And so that's when you talk about, I call it your you know how statement. When someone asks, what do you do for a living? Well, you know how. And by using those three words and it gives the person you're talking to the implication that this is going to be so simple. Of course I should know what they're talking about. You know how so many people worry if they've saved enough for retirement? Many people worry about going to run out of money in retirement or whatever that may be. Yeah. Then they immediately connect with that painful problem. So that's the key. There is. How do you do that? But I like to say it's always the least amount of words that wins. So many people try to overcomplicate and over word somebody to death as if I'm going to give you these 10 pages that will, that will win the ability to win you as a client. Whatever you can say with the least amount of words and at a third grade level is the path to winning.

That's very powerful. And when, when you think about that word referable. So that comes up in our industry all the time. It's something that we hear regularly. What I'm genuinely curious, like what. What is the key to becoming referable by design, not by accident?

Well, there's two things. One is counterintuitive and they're both easy to do here. But many, many advisors and professionals make the mistake of waiting until the end of the client visit to ask for the referral. You've gone over all the numbers. People are slightly tired. People kind of expect to be asked for something at the end of the visit. Instead, what I find is you want to have an agenda and you want to have a micro moment on that agenda where you remind them of the benefit that you gave them. You remind them of the pain pill that you gave them to ease their pain. And in that moment when they realize that, and it might be. I wanted to take a quick moment, Rich. And you remember when you first came to us as a client the problem that you had, that pain point you were feeling and you want them to articulate it again to see what they say to remind themselves of how far you have transformed their life. When they say that, you're exactly right. I remember how worried you felt. And then you felt Confident after that. Could I pause here for a second? I find there's a lot of people that have that same worry and concern, but they don't know who to talk to. And these are the key words here. Would you be willing to consider connecting me to, whether it be a family member or a coworker or a friend who might have that same concern, who doesn't know what to do, but their life would sure look a whole lot better if they had a solution like we provided to you and then you shut up. Now, what I did there was, I didn't say, can you give me referral? Can you give me a name? I reminded them to remind themselves of where they came from to where they are today. Because as human beings, we can forget how much pain we were once in because our life looks better today. Okay, that's where a lot of advisors miss it. But then you want to ask the question, the permission question. Would you be willing to consider. And what that does is it lets them lock in. Yeah, I'd be willing to do that. Okay, great. Well, now you've got permission then in a broad scope for them to give you referrals. But it's reminding them of the painful problem they had when they re internalize that pain. That's when it starts to rain.

Really love that.

And I can see, I can see how well that would work. But more importantly, just actually the, the value goes beyond being able to make that introduction. The value is fundamentally a service level, which is you just have a desire to serve and you're helping someone else understand that there's other people that they know that need to be served and their friends, their colleagues, their family members. They want those people served. They want them to have a better life. You know, they want to be, they want to lift others up. It's very rare that you run into people that don't have an interest in lifting other people's up. You know, we all want to have positive relationships and people around us or someone that you know that you want to help. And where are you connecting them to the help that can be provided?

So well said. And it reminds me of a, of a chat GPT search. I do quite a bit of content on LinkedIn and as I'm preparing my content for next week, I'm thinking about, okay, what would be a practical chat GPT search that people could apply to really help them grow their business. And one thing I typed in to test it was, you have access to all of my searches. What are three things you would suggest? I Stop doing okay. And surprisingly one of them was just focusing in the wrong areas. In other words, things that continually and predictably don't go well. And I do them thinking the outcome will be different, but it never is. And a practical way to say that would be, let's say that I'm talking to my wife about a topic or something and it always ends in an argument. Well, the thing to put on the list is don't talk to your wife about that. It sounds so simple. But, but, but so often we think if we keep doing this, we'll either persuade them or we'll, we'll just bulldoze them into see way of doing things. And that's not the case. So you want to travel lightly. If you continue to see things in your business that continually. When I say this, I get this negative result. Just stop. It's not about adding new things. It's often more productive. As I talk to these top 1% teams, let's make a list of all the things that you're failing at and let's just stop that. First of all, that's the key.

Couldn't agree with you more. It's people. And Rich and I, when we experience our interactions with advisors in both Canada and the United States.

Reminds us a lot of unique ability. And people often try to operate outside of their unique ability. The things that fascinate them, that bring them energy, that bring them successful outcomes and they may have heard or experienced some mentoring or advice along their life's journey where hey, here are some things that you're weak at. You should go and work on that. And we always encourage them, don't do that. All you're going to end up with is stronger weaknesses. Find the areas that fascinate you and energize you and allow you to operate in that unique ability and then rely upon other who's that possess the capabilities to get the things done that you're just not good at. And identify. I love people create, you know, these. Start doing lists. Identify a stop doing list. What are some things that are just really not. They're not productive, they're. But yet, like you said, people have a tendency to repeat those things over and over again and wondering why they're not getting a different outcome. And so if, if you were speaking to an advisor that was watching or listening right now and that advisor was perhaps approaching that burnout or maybe feeling a little bit stuck, what's the first step that they should take to reignite that spark?

Well, and I think that's a Very common scenario. Many, many advisors who on the outside look wildly successful are burning themselves to a crisp on the inside. And it's not just themselves, it's their relationships, their closest friendships, even their vision for the future, their, their time with their kids. All of those things are getting can just getting burned up. What I would tell people is actually two things. First of all, when you can begin to think outside of yourself, it can be transformational. And this is where, as crazy as it sounds, but identify a cause that you care deeply about. Identify something that if you were to make a contribution to that, suddenly, now your focus is entirely not on yourself, it's off yourself, but on helping someone else. And if you can identify that, now we're reverse engineering some happiness back into your life. Now the question becomes, okay, you know, I wanted to do more for this cause, and what if I set a dollar amount to be able to do that? How much revenue would I need to generate to be able to do that? Or to send my son or daughter to this special YouTube camp to learn how to start a business or whatever it may be. Now suddenly you're focused on other people. And what that does is it completely changes your mindset. Because once you realize how simple this business can be, it's basically identify the problem, listen for what other people's problems are, confirm that you understand the problem, and then offer the solution that that's the pathway to building a multi, multimillion dollar business. And so I would just ask, you know, what parts of your business are not going well and write those on a list and then begin to figure out how can I either give those to somebody else. So I only focus on my highest, most dollar productive activities. That's the key. And then what I would also do, which is, which is crazy, is I would pick a dead cutoff time every day. I am leaving the office at 4pm, I am leaving the office at 5. I call this the working woman principle. When my, my first job out of college, there was a woman named Carla. And she would be there before I got there. But suddenly at five o', clock, she was gone. Like disappear. Like you knew she was out of there. And one day I said, carla, where do you go at five? She said, well, Derek, I've got kids at home, I'm going to night school, I've got to cook for the family, I've got stuff I got to get done. So Carla was immensely productive from eight to five, but at five o' clock she was gone and she knew she had to get everything done. No wasted time was allowed because she had other life and people depending on her. When you can reconstruct that as an advisor and say, okay, I'm going to cut it off, maybe at 3 o' clock or 4 o', clock, I'm going to compress my schedule to force me to only do the highest, most dollar productive tasks. You'd be surprised. Suddenly people are doubling their businesses and they're having the family time they never thought was possible because they forcibly compress their schedule.

That's wonderful.

Such good advice. And I know the advisors that tune into our content are going to get enormous value. And so if you've been feeling overwhelmed or just plain stuck or overlooked, I mean, Derek has just handed you the keys.

It's great. Rich Derek, this was so much fun. Love the premise of your book. Kind of reminds me a little bit of some elements of Ayn Rand in which he indicated, of course you're people being vilified with this excess of money. And of course you have people searching for gulch if you've ever read Atlas Shrugged. And so you're providing a more tactile version of how do you turn, you know, money and productivity and value into something that you can clearly see and obviously benefits other people at the end of the day, solving problems is what every entrepreneur is built on. So you solve some incredible problems for a ton of advisors just through this amazing podcast, let alone through the work that you do and the book that you've written. You may not realize it, but you're basically showing up at a hero level status when you're showing up in the minds of the advisors that are taking heed of your incredible information. So our question for you before we end today is who do you most want to be a hero to?

Well, I, I, I would say my kids. So we have, we have four kids, they all are entrepreneurs. And I was just thinking about what caused that. And my, our youngest son is 20. Today is actually his last day at his full time job. He's launched a part time business on the side. He's going to go full time with that and also do some other work. And as I was talking to him a few months back, he just said, dad, I've decided to start a business. I said, really? Tell me about that. He said, well, that's just kind of what we do in our family, dad. Everybody else has a business. I thought I would start one too. And then it hit me. I didn't realize this, but we established a culture that all of us in the Kinney family are entrepreneurs. And so truly more is caught than taught. And that went back to when I would pray with them at night and I would always tell them the same mantra when we went to bed. I would say, whatever you can conceive and believe you can achieve, you will achieve. You must achieve. And at first they were reluctant, but then at the end, as they got older, they would chant it together. But it was just a mentality of, hey, we can do this. And before you know it, it just becomes expected. So that, that's, I didn't realize it at the time, but that's what I am working on influencing there.

I can relate to that. And on that note, Derek, this has been incredible. And to all of our advisors out there in North America who are tuning in, as it turns out, the difference between a dry pipeline and a dream client roster isn't talent. It's, it's the words that you choose. It's the, it's the confidence to use them. And I would recommend to you just head on over to Derek's website. We're going to include a link to that successforadvisors.com and grab his free guide on conversation mistakes. Get his book, Book him to speak if you're serious about growth. And Derek, thank you for your generosity, your wisdom, and sincerely for showing all of our listeners and viewers what's possible when we make money and make it meaningful.

This was a fun conversation. Jason, thank you. Rich, thank you. I hope we helped a lot of people today. Thanks for having me.

Go ahead, take a look at the next episode down below and make sure you get a copy of our book, Cash Follows a leader. Go to cashfollows.com and get a free copy right to your inbox.