287: Five Years Practicing Infinite Banking with Gastil Brothers

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Five years practicing the infinite banking concept. We're going to learn all about it. We are joined today by two wonderful gentlemen. We got two brothers on the show today. We've got Garrett and Miles Gastle. These are amazing individuals. Now, we're going to hear a lot from Miles and his five years of practicing the infinite banking concept, but Garrett is joining us, of course, where you've also been doing this, Garrett, in your life. And you're now part of our American team with Ascendant Financial. So this is your first appearance here on the podcast. I'm sure many more to come in the future. But thanks for dragging kicking and screaming Miles onto the show with us today. And we're excited to talk to both you guys about your. Your incredible experience. Now, Miles, you're a commercial general contractor. You've been in business for a while, and I'm guessing there's going to be some implementation here of how you're using this maybe in your business life, but also in the personal life. So maybe let's start first and foremost with how did you get introduced to the concept?

Yeah, Garrett, actually, that's why I'm here.

Oh, that guy.

Oh, man. We talk. At least we used to until I got super busy. But we talk almost every day.

We still make time for it, though.

Yeah, 30 second conversations. But yeah, Gary, I remember Garrett calling. We were always bouncing ideas off of each other. Um, and Gary, I remember he called me, like. I mean, it must have been five years ago now. And he was. My wife's uncle has this thing that we're reading this book and it sounds really cool. And so he sent it to me and then I read it and then, yeah, the rest is history. I feel like.

I always joke. Yep, that's the one. I always joke, like, whenever. At least I still talk at people about the concept.

I haven't gotten anyone to convert yet, but it's not really my job, so I don't. I'm just burning bridges with friendships and. And clients when I tell them. But.

But for whatever reason, I feel like Garrett and I both just bought in. Like, the first time we read was like, it was all in right away. And it was like, how can we. We probably got a little too aggressive at first. Like, what can we do to fund, like, Max. Fund this looking up videos if, like taking out credit cards to do it. So I don't know why, but for whatever reason, it really clicked for. I mean, it took me a minute to come around, I would say, like, but only like a couple weeks worth of conversations. And then I was, yeah, okay. So it's just been interesting because when I've talked to people about it.

Just on my own for the last couple years, no one, like, it doesn't, you know, hasn't. I haven't. I'm probably not saying the right things, but it just doesn't click so well. But yeah, we've been. We've been all in since day one.

You've had a couple people want to read the book, which is great. That's all you got to do. And some people, it takes a couple years, and then they'll come back and be like, I read the book.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So regretfully, I've only read the book, I think, cover to cover, like twice. No, it's only. I think only once, actually. It's about time for a refresh, though.

It is now that you're a client here, you need to do it. So.

Yeah, the nice thing about the book is that it's. It's spaced out really well so that you can pick up and read any page or two pages. You know, some of the chapters are two pages, and you can chew on that information for a whole week, just mulling it over and then thinking about what's going on.

Your own world.

And it's interesting, though, Miles, you talk about how both of you guys, obviously similar mindset. You talk a lot. You're really closely connected and that you both had the same, almost. Almost a visceral type reaction on reading the book and coming to a decision very quickly. Now I've learned about Garrett that much like myself, he's able to make decisions fairly quickly. He wants to move fast, go fast, and so I appreciate that. That quick start energy that he's got is wonderful. And, you know, so after the couple of weeks of, you know, a few conversations and going through the book initially, you know, when you were reading the book, did. Did it just kind of like, just make sense? Did it just seem like, well, why wouldn't I do this? Like, was there. What were some of the thoughts that came up for you when you first read the book?

Drawing on a whiteboard and showing my wife, like, a diagram of the P analogy.

She always jokes about that, but she was like, this is so dumb. Like, what are you trying to tell me? But that really clicked, like, don't steal the peas. I'd be. I'd be really curious to actually revisit it now, now that I've been.

In business for a couple years, to see, like, what clicks again. I just don't have the book with me because I gave it to my neighbor.

So I need to get some more copies.

I have a couple, actually. I can drive one over to you.

I would definitely say that it's something where I don't remember what initially clicked, to be honest. I just remember, like, even in the last year, just the more Garrett and I talk about it, new things click for it all the time, I would say. So I don't really recall, like, what the initial. I think it was like, oh, interest recapture. That makes sense. But now you say that's not, you know, depending on whether or not that's technically true. But it just, it made a lot of sense to.

I. I suppose the, like, analogy that I would always give people is it's. It's just putting your place, your money in a place where it truly compounds over its lifetime. Because you always hear about compounding interest and people like, yeah, compound. Compounding interest is great, but, like, what. What is truly compounding contractually over the lifetime, and then you're able to borrow from that and not interrupt that compounding. That's always like the thing that I, I guess start with when I'm talking about with people and what's. What sticks out at me is it being really powerful. So.

And something that, that we were actually talking about before we jumped on with you, Richard, in our five minute conversation of the day is we both have young families and the death benefit just really makes us feel secure. You know, if something happened to Miles or his family would be okay financially and the business would be able, you know, the business would be taken care of and all of his obligations. It's just that that really does matter. So that's something we just talk about more now that we have young families.

So.

Totally. Yeah. I was just gonna say that wasn't even on my radar with it at first, but now when I look at it, I'm like, oh, this is great. Like, I obviously need a better plan in place if that were to happen. But it makes. I used to just say, like, that's just kind of like the cherry on top.

Just utilizing the policies. But now that's like a huge benefit to me when I look at it.

So I appreciate you both providing that perspective because it's Actually something that we don't talk about nearly enough. And I think, you know, obviously you mentioned the word life insurance. Most people turn their brain off when they hear that word because they think it brings up the mental picture conversation about someone they know, love and care about no longer being around. And you know, there's a, there's a natural, almost like barrier of wanting to think about that right at some future element. And I think that's what causes people to maybe view anything in the insurance realm, life insurance realm, sometimes with a little bit of like trepidation, like they're a little bit hesitant to a degree because it just brings up a topic that they don't want to talk about. But you really putting the nail on the head, Garrett, just identifying how critical that is for you at this stage. Like you do have. Think you've got four or five kids, is it?

You've got three right now.

Three. Okay, okay.

I'll just leave it at that.

There's a lot of kids happening here. So between the two of you guys, you know, pretty soon you're going to.

Have your own hockey team.

And it's great to know that you have that protection in place. And so while it might not have been present of mind when you got the policy originally, you know, just that the impact of how it shifts and changes over time and I think a lot of people do feel and resonate with that, that. And interestingly enough, you know, at the beginning of the year here in January, I had the unfortunate scenario where I had to help deliver a death claim for a client of mine. Wonderful guy. I really appreciate it. I had amazing conversations with him. He was in his early 50s and a, a freak accident essentially and on New Year's Eve led to a blood clot situation and, and the result is seven days later he wasn't with us anymore. And so I, I got the news, you know, about two weeks into the new year and really, really unfortunate circumstance and, and this sort of thing does happen. We don't know what our best before date is, but we can plan for it effectively. And there's one tool above all other tools that makes that plan really effective. And it's one that you can tap into at will as it builds its own equity. And that's really the, the core elements here. Like we're getting a, an equity producing growth machine with unlimited access to tap into that equity, plus a big giant wrapper of tax free death benefit around it. You know, Nelson Nash, he used to say it's so important that we classify things Correctly. And you know, Miles, in construction, sometimes people use different lingo for certain tools or certain types of materials that you might use on a job site as an example. And even if you go to different, like, geographic areas, like if you were to show up in Alberta, Canada and start doing construction, like, you might get a different lingo for some of the things on a job site. Well, that. That same classification impact happens in a lot of different areas. And he said they really did a crappy job when they named this tool. What they should have called it is a personal monetary system with a death benefit thrown on the side for good measure. He said that's a really long name. We'd have some kind of an acronym, I'm sure, to describe it, but that's really what it should have been identified as.

People might relate to that more than infinite banking, but the term, it is short and sweet, though. So.

Now, Miles, you've been practicing for five years. You guys kind of both jumped in about similar time frame. What's some examples of where you found the utilization to be really helpful? Give me a couple of ideas as to where you've been able to put the policy to work in your life and what the experience was like for you.

Sure. I would describe the first five years of just.

All gas and building.

So I would say I'm probably not the, like, the golden child of paying it back at this point, but I don't really care because I know what I'm doing. And what I'm doing is I'm building a banking system that can support my future business, essentially. So I've utilized it a lot for, like, dumping in, like, the sale of a house and pulling out money and remodeling the house. So I'm using it to create equity, like in other places.

And in the building stage, I would. That's the best way I can describe it. And so I feel like, especially recently, I looked at it and I looked at my policies with Garrett, and my concern at this point is more so that I don't have a big enough system to support my future growth. So, like, I was looking at my yearly premiums after all my riders fall off in, you know, a couple years. And I'm like, that's it. Like, I need to keep growing this thing. So that's kind of been like. I guess my goal at this point is, is building both those things in tandem. And I. I mean, I guess you could say I'm betting on myself and my business and the success of my business to be able to support that and.

So, but you know, more practically I've put money in and I pulled it out for like I said, like house remodels. So again, kind of comes back like I'm, I'm using the equity in the policy to create equity in other assets. Right. Like in houses. But what I've kind of shifted to recently is like building equity in the business and then also just building as much equity within the policies as I can. So that's another kind of shift that I've taken recently is with I guess everything going on in the world and in real estate, like real estate was so hot for so long and I've looked at a bunch of deals like I want to build an office for my company. But even self performing the GC work like the nothing pencils right now you just have to have such scale or such like a good deal for something to work. So what I've kind of shifted to is like, okay, if I can build up equity within the policies and almost treating them, looking at them like, you know, a hard asset like a house or a plot of land or something like that. Because that is what you're doing is you're building, you're building equity within it essentially. So kind of just doing that in tandem with the policies and then also just dumping everything and growing a business.

So I love that, Miles, and I just like watching you grow too. Like I've watched Richard. When we first started implementing infinite banking, we were both W2 employees. And I've gotten front row seats to seeing Miles make the leap into entrepreneurship. And I think one of the things that everyone who meets Miles and says this about him, like, he just has the grit and like belief that he's going to succeed. And I would say, Miles, you said a couple minutes ago that, you know, you're, you're betting on yourself, but like you're strategically betting on yourself. Like, you know, you, you do have a plan for, you know, building up those policies and you know, the things you have coming down the pipeline on in your commercial business. Yeah, you're going to need a bigger system soon. Right. So I think it's just, it's been really cool to see you kind of make that strategic leap and also just.

You know, inspired me about, you know, jumping out on my own too. And.

You just, you can't fail. Like, you just have that attitude like I'm not going to fail. And I think that really, that really shows. So it's really cool to see that in your banking journey and your, your business too.

It it doesn't feel risky. I'll just say that like it's a, it's calculated. I guess to me what I've like the shift that I've taken is there's more risk in not doing than doing, especially once you realize what you're capable of. So that's been a big like mindset shift, like there was more risk for me staying where I was at, doing what I was doing. So that's been the biggest I think shift in all this is what is the opportunity cost essentially of staying where I was at. So my, my goal now essentially is to like I said, build a contracting business alongside my, my banking business. And I think the banking is more profitable at the end of the day.

So there's, there's a couple key elements that I really want to zone in on for listeners, Miles, that you identified here. And it's the last statement I'll actually start with. That first is like Nelson says right in the book, that everyone should be in two businesses. The first is the business in which you generate your income. The second is the banking business. Of the two, the banking business is more important. So you, you just kind of identified that really in your, your own language, in your own life and then talking about doubling down on yourself. And so we firmly believe that you are your greatest asset. And if you, if you were to consider that, imagine that you had an asset that was going to produce.

Multiple millions of dollars of revenue over a 60, 40 to 60 year period of time, would you insure the crap out of that asset?

Right.

You would do that day one, if you knew the asset was going to produce that much long term revenue. Yeah, well, that is the human individual, that's you. You're the asset. And yet people will go in and they will insure their business, they will insure their primary residence and they'll insure their rental portfolios partly because they're required or else they can't get the loan from the bank. So there's a little bit of that. But, but they also, they don't want, if the house goes up in a fire, you know, forest fire or whatever happens, they want to make sure that they can rebuild the house. That's what the insurance does. It's a protection mechanism. It's about safety, security, peace of mind so that, you know, if you have a town of a thousand people and you know, we don't know which house is going to burn, but probably one's going to go every two or three years, you want to make sure that you're putting a little bit in to guarantee that your house or your neighbor's house can get rebuilt properly. That's, you're, you're pooling that risk together effectively. That's the basics of how insurance is put together. Now when you just extend the, the, the, the scope of that pool and you put it on the human life, that's all life insurance is. And so we're all mutually contributing into this giant pool that we all can share in. If you're with the same company, you, you know, you guys probably have policies with the exact same company. So your family's putting in premium, your family's putting in premium, and you probably have other family members or people that are putting in premium, and eventually your kids are going to put in premium. And it's all in the same mutually combined pool that's well managed by people who've put all the systems in place to make sure it's done properly. That is such a beautiful system. And so you're ensuring your greatest asset, which is you. And that's such a beautiful thing. I think that's something can't be understated enough. The other thing you talked a lot about, Miles, was equity and controlling the equity. So, you know, in real estate, they always say the three magic words are location, location, location. Right? How many times have you heard that? And you're just like, okay, enough already. I don't, I don't care about the three magic words of real estate. Well, in, in the infinite banking space, we say that the three magic words are control, control, control. Another way to look at this, and Jason, who's not with us today, has often said it's location of the equity, location of the equity, location of the equity. So you're able to dictate the terms of where you want to build your equity. Some of it's in your business, which is your biggest asset right now. Some of it's in the house that you own and renovations you're doing. Well, if you're doing renovations on your house, would you need that for a growing family, certain lifestyle experience, certain needs? Happy wife is a happy life. I've heard that a few times. So there's a number of reasons why you might need to do that, but then also there's probably some advantage. Hey, look, these are some of the things that I can do with my, with my work that might translate a little bit into showing the scope of what you can do for other people as a general contractor. So there's like a number of checkboxes that you're kind of hitting there and being able to determine, well, where do I want to store the equity? Am I storing some of it in the house? I'm going to store some of it in the business. I'm going to store some of it in the policy I'm going to build in all three locations. But I'm going to determine the. The. The rules, the when, and the how I'm going to apply into those. So whether it's paying loans down, paying premiums, each one of those things creates equity. Now, Garrett, you've been at this, you know, obviously, kind of jumping in the journey. Very similar point in time when you've talked a lot, of course, about how Miles, you've seen his journey change and shift and the doubling down on himself. What are some of the things that you've noticed and. And, you know, thinking about from your vantage point, looking at how Miles is utilizing it and the common conversations that you guys have. I'm sure in your conversations, obviously, you're talking about your families and parenting and being dads and all that kind of stuff, but you're also. Maybe you're quoting some anchorman quotes. I'm not sure. But you're. You're probably also talking about this policy situation and how you're growing mutually in business together. So are you guys. You find yourself frequently, week to week, you're kind of spitballing ideas. How is that coming up?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know if you're familiar with working Genius, Richard, but Miles is the wi. He's, like, on the far left end. Like, he's an idea guy, and I'm actually a G.D. i'm in the middle. And so we're always, like, beating each other up about ideas and things. And, I mean, it kind of always is about. I think we talk a lot about business, mostly recently, because it's just. Why are you smiling?

We also.

Yeah, that's true. And I think for me, what I see is.

Miles comes with ideas, and it's kind of like, hey, I'm thinking about this, and I want to do this thing, and I can kind of be a little bit of a. A Debbie Downer, maybe sometimes, because I'm leaning into that.

Discerning, playing devil's advocate. But I think what Miles does a really good job of is like, hey, you need to be doing this thing. That's obvious. Like, you need to get out and network more and kind of just helping me think through the top end of what I'm doing in my business. But we. I Mean, I think one of the cool things about me being in, you know, I coach now with Ascendant is we've just learned. So I think I've learned so much about the concept since January, and just talking about what I learned with Miles, I. I think we've both been able to kind of.

Have like, an unfiltered discussion about it and kind of talk through our. Our assumptions about it and help each other grow in that way. I think that's really been a cool thing. Um, and I think, you know, there's just such great. I think one of the things about Ascendant that's so unique is really trying to be truthful to the concept and to Nelson and not sensationalizing it and really understanding what's going on, because I think for a long time.

It'S really easy to get caught up and, like, this is a silver bullet that's going to magically solve all my problems and without really. And it's like, well, wait, but I'm paying interest on my own money. Like, what does that mean? And that's just getting really clear on what's happening and.

The control aspect of it and how.

My money is growing, compounding, and that is a really powerful thing. So I think just kind of getting really crystal clear on what's happening and how to use it has been a really cool part of this whole thing. Why are you smiling?

I've benefited. Oh, I've just. I've benefited a lot from you doing this because, like, I'm glad you brought someone in.

You brought a lot of new, like, perspective to the con. You're like, we've been talking about it all wrong. Like, okay, we're talking to people in.

The market about it.

Like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Hence why I haven't converted anybody in five years, so. But no, it's been. It's been really, I'd say, useful to, like, you bring your knowledge that and everything that you're learning, and we, you know, spitball it back and forth. And it's, like, opened my eyes a lot, too, to, like. And also, it's cool to have being around it more. It's cool to see how other people are implementing it. So I think that really opens up my eyes of, like, oh, wow, okay. How can I implement this in my business, too, not just my personal life. So that's been really key. And so we're kind of like, you know, kicking around ideas on how to do that, because I think there's just really a lot of potential there, so.

Well, it's Interesting. I'm curious, you know, Gary, you mentioned, you know, it's kind of been January 2025 since you've kind of joined and become a part of the Ascendant extended team. You're, you're, you're, you're fully involved in a new and, you know, just.

Yeah.

Embracing all those aspects, which I love to see. And you know, Miles, I'm curious, you know, if you, if you think back on the first four years and we're kind of in year five here now, and just some of the shifts and the changes that you've seen with Garrett and what he's up to now, what he's learning, and then the conversations, like, what, what have you noticed from your perspective, seeing the conversation shift and change since, you know, since embracing and becoming part of the Ascendant.

For Garrett, he kind of touched on it. It's, it's toning back the sensationalist rhetoric. People get kind of squirrely when you're like, there's this thing that nobody knows about, but I know about it.

It's the black box secret. Like, where is this black box? I keep looking for it. I've never found it.

It's called Infinity Banking.

Yeah. Read this book and don't look up anything else about it. Just read this book and talk to me. That was like, you know, I feel like that was kind of our approach for a while.

Just because we didn't know any better. But the way that you guys talk about it is kind of like you described earlier. It's, it's not this silver bullet. It still follows the rules of logic and money and it's not this quick fix to anything. It's. It's a, it's building a business is what it is. You can't just do that overnight. You have to build something. You have to build a system. So I think that's been the big at least shift of, like, in our discussions for me of, like, how to talk about it, especially with people that, you know, are new to the concept and like, things, you know, not to look hide or, you know, not share anything but, but more asking questions and talking to people about, like, okay, like, how much are you spending on interest? Like, what are your long term goals? As opposed to, like this approach of like, there's this secret thing that we know that you don't know.

You want to get rich buying cars. Yeah.

Yeah. So. Because it's really not that, like I said, right. It's, it's, it's the same thing that I'm doing right now in my day to day business, I had to put in a lot of dollars obviously over the last five years into my policy to now. Policies to now have.

A profitable bank essentially. And that's only going to keep getting more and more profitable, which is awesome. But I've laid the groundwork for it and it hasn't, you know, it took a while. So it's. Yeah.

And something you're doing and you're, you're doing the same thing in your business. Right. You had to put money into your business and because you had the policies and you know, you, you did a really good job with the sale of your home and stuff and adding a lot of value to your first home here.

But you've also had to invest a lot of time in your business too, you know, and, and you're right, you're building towards something that's going to be bigger and you're exactly right. People want to get rich tomorrow.

And there's, there's not much out there that does that. There isn't anything.

And if, if it is, you're probably not equipped to keep it. I always think of like the analogy of like, if I woke up tomorrow with like this like Mr. Olympia's body, like I would lose it in three weeks because I don't know how to maintain that. So what I like about infinite banking and like the grind of success.

I'm a masochist. But.

Is.

Is there's, it's not, it's not a quick fix. If you, if I was to wake up tomorrow and have all the goals that I want to achieve in life, I would, I would squander it probably because I wouldn't know how to manage it properly and how to maintain it. So that's also what I liked about the IBC journey and like learning along the way is like I'm learning about my business. I know my business really well. But I've also been learning the concept and talking it over with you like over the years and growing my understanding of, of the banking business.

So you see why we talk every day, Richard. There's such insight there.

Yeah.

And I love the connection point of, you know, you touched on behavior, Miles. Which I mean if, if mathematically, if you take all the blank pages out of Nelson's book and you take out the pages that have illustrations and stuff on them, well then about 30% of the entire book of actual content is based on human behavior. So a large percentage of the book, and it's all at the beginning of the book is all behavior based. And if, if you can't get the behavior based stuff down, then you shouldn't even proceed. Essentially, Nelson kind of says that a few times in the book, but on page 15, which is the grocery store example, you know, he really identifies the whole purpose of the grocery store example is to help people understand. Nelson's trying to teach people how to grow a business and what's involved in the work and the effort and all the stuff that you need to do to go and create a grocery store. And that same type of element is necessary in building, you know, it identifies his rules of thinking, long range and don't be afraid to capitalize. And capitalization, yes, there's dollars involved in that, in the way of premium for a policy. But capitalizing for a business is dollars in investing in the business, dollars in investing in marketing, dollars in investing in your education, dollars in investing in the accountant, dollars in investing in employees. Right. Dollars in investing in xyz. And then there's the time. The time of the networking functions to get the contracts. The time of, you know, looking at drawings and bidding on jobs and figuring out how to bid on jobs. And like, you know, I'm sure there's a few more things you could list out miles that you need to do for your contracting business.

Many more things.

All of that is capitalization, right? And same way that you go get a university degree. Well, you get a university degree, you get four or five or six years or however long you need to go in to get the degree that you want. Well, you're putting up all the time. You're also putting up all the money. And at the end you have some potential of a future revenue source that's likely higher than the person that didn't put that time and effort in. That's the whole purpose of capitalization. It's the exact same scenario. But you can't get to it if you don't get on the other side. Now at the bottom of page 15, Nelson says it all reminds me of a phenomenon in physics. Take a pail of water to seaside and heat it to 210 degrees Fahrenheit, and all you have is very hot water. But if you heat it up to 212 degrees Fahrenheit, you have live steam with unbelievable power. The steam engine changed the world. But it doesn't happen until you get past 212 degrees. Lots of heat goes into the process up until the boiling point, but the dramatic power comes suddenly. And so we're here having this conversation. You're at this five year point of your policies, and you identified the, the profit situation that you're finding yourself in now as these policies are maturing, where every time you put a dollar in, you're getting greater than that dollar back from an equity position. And that efficiency will happen for the rest of your time. And so in your brain you mentioned, well, you know, depending on the structure of the policies, at some point you might not be able to put in as much premium as you're doing now. And when that happens, you're going to be like, that's not good enough. I need to get more in. And that takes us to page 85 of Nelson's book. Point number two. He says, if you knew at passive income time you would be getting back every single dollar that you put into a system potentially tax free, would you ever object to putting any more into it? Obviously, the answer is no. So your brain's already tuned in to how can I grow and increase the size of my system and the premiums that I can pay? So it's creating the privilege to be able to pay a premium at any point in the future that you want to the degree that you want. And that's really, you know, if you had a machine and that machine, whether it's a, you know, it's a Bobcat that you're using to clear a construction site, it's whatever the machine is. But that machine requires fuel and it now is at a position where every time that you put fuel in, you get more operating hours, more value, faster work, better, more efficient work out of the machine.

We.

Would you ever want to stop putting fuel into that machine?

No.

It's fun, right?

Yeah, it's fun.

So, yeah, I know it's really fun to get to that point of the stage, definitely, because it's, it's, it's, you know, like now, once they're properly capitalized and like you said, you start getting back more than you put in. It's like, okay. And then you look at the, the projections, right? And it's like, wow, this never goes down. It only goes up. That's awesome. Why didn't I it's go bigger earlier? Well, it's because I couldn't afford it. But it's very, it's like we, we.

Did a, an investment together.

And Miles and I did with our wives, we invested in an Airbnb and we tried it out and that was, it was stressful because it was, it was not like that. It wasn't like, oh, every dollar we put in forever is going to keep going up. It was like a, what do we have to do to, to make sure we make money off this thing and okay, we want to sell it. How do we make sure we're, are we going to make money on this or not? So there's none of that stress with this. It's, it's very predictable and it's, if you treat it right, it's going to treat you right, like Richard's saying, for the rest of your life. So very different experience.

Yeah, it gives me a lot of security moving forward in my day to day business to know that that's there and that is always going to grow no matter what my day to day operations.

So it's also interesting that, you know, five years ago, two, three years ago even, you know, you could find any social media site and learn all about how amazing airbnb investing is and how great it's going to be and the cash flow is fantastic. Well, that's because people weren't making the same cash flow and just long term buy and hold rentals, number one. Number two.

Yeah. All the gurus are telling you how awesome it is, but they're also, there's not a lot of passivity there. Yeah, you can do it passively. It can happen, but it usually doesn't happen right away. And it takes the hard lessons of learning how to systemize and make it better. I know some people who are at that stage today, but they had to go through seven, eight years of practice and effort and trials and tribulations. It's the same capitalization phase of any business. And they had to do all the work, they had the late nights, they had the this, they had the water issue, they had the cleaners not show up. Like all of the things that take place, you know, dealing with the bad reviews, dealing with the refunds, dealing with the fact that you don't get the same percentage that you think you're going to get after your cleaning fee. Like all of this stuff that sounds really good when you first learn about it on the social media post. Like, yeah, Airbnb investing, that's the ticket.

That's the home run. Looking for the sewer backup we had across the country. So I had to do a remote remodel from the sewage backup.

So pretty hard to fix that on a zoom call, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank God for Miles, because I would have been, you know, I have no idea. I'm gonna get gouged. I did all the bookkeeping and taxes and stuff, but Miles did all the.

The hard stuff pretty. I was pretty useless with that back then. I could do a little better now, but. Yeah, you could for sure. Kind of forces you to.

Well.

Well, you know, Miles, although you've indicated you haven't had a lot of people you've been talking to jump on board yet, you're motivated enough to keep talking about it. It's something that's really core to everything you're doing financially now. It's really a pillar, basically, in your family's financial life going forward. It sounds like that's. That's the way you communicated about it. You know what. What would you want to share and tell someone who. Watching this for the first time, maybe they're just discovering the concept. This happens to be the first video they pop into on YouTube. What would you want them to know and understand about this concept from your perspective?

Yeah.

I think for. For me, it's. I share it honestly, because it's. It's something that I feel like I really do care. I really feel like it helps people. I feel like it's opened up my eyes to so many different things, and so I don't benefit financially at all from it. But I feel like I'm always talking to people about it and always giving that caveat. Like, I don't. I just. You just sound like someone who would, you know, enjoy this. But I think. I guess I would say biggest thing is.

Is control, which maybe that's a big reason a lot of people don't want to do it, is because I think there's.

Some people don't want control. They want someone else to just handle it. And they want it to all be, you know, they just want to put their money somewhere and hope and pray that it keeps growing. Right. So I think that that's probably a turn off for some people. Maybe something like this isn't the right fit for them, if that's the case. But I'd say if you. If you feel that sense of, like, frustration about not, you know, controlling your future.

I would say this is definitely the thing to implement for that.

Love it. Now, Garrett, you've got, obviously, a really exciting future ahead as you continue helping people with this concept. And one of the things that I've certainly learned on my part of this journey is that Nelson was correct. There's no such thing as having arrived in knowledge. And so we're always learning and growing and developing. I'm actually quite excited myself, personally for the future, because now that we are able to assist people, because we've got a great team of people like yourself assisting so many wonderful clients down in the United States. There's a great opportunity for me to learn more about certain things about the American marketplace and, and how we can help optimize things down there. So I'm, I'm more excited now than I probably have been about this even for some time. And it's, it's a really wonderful experience. But I'm curious, from your perspective, what has you excited about the future with infinite banking and, and helping people? And then maybe you might even relate some of that to what you, what you see in the future. As Miles continues to embrace this and adds more elements for his banking business to his contracting business, I think that.

Miles nailed it, right, that.

People, that it's all about control. And we talk about this a lot actually at ascendant that you have to, you have to see the problem. And Nelson says infinite banking is the solution to the problem. And people think they have all these problems and they, they don't see the problem that infinite banking solves, but once they do see it, they can't unsee it. And so for that reason, I think I would just, I would say there is a cost to giving up that control.

And, and I think, I think that my wife and I talk about this all the time. Like, I really do think everyone, if they can take the time to get educated about this concept, that they can benefit from this, from you, from implementing this, whether you make 30,000 to making, you know, 3 million, everyone can, everyone and everyone in between, they can benefit from this because it's about human behavior and human, it's a process that involves human behavior. So I think, I think I'm excited to see more people come into the fold with this. And, you know, we're all about sharing Nelson's message. And he, he wanted everyone to benefit from this, to get out of, to take back control into their own personal lives. And, and I think we've abdicated a lot of control to the government and to banks. And I think the more people that, that take back control to the family, it's just going to be better. I mean, we're seeing this huge movement in America. People want control of their kids, education of their health, of all that kind of stuff. And I think that it's just, we're ripe for this as well, our financial lives too. And I think, I think people are just not aware and they're waking up to this and it's exciting to kind of be on the crest of the wave of this. And as people start to get it. It's just so exciting. And in regards to ascendant in particular.

I just think that a Senate is really well positioned to handle sharing this message. And I think there's a lot of noise out there and it's just speaking truth is people want the truth. And I think that, that Richard, you and Jason do an incredible job of just speaking the truth and saying it in a way that really resonates. So I'm excited to learn from you on that and also see more people come in and get, get served. So just excited to watch that happen.

Well, I, I appreciate you saying all that and I, I think a lot about, in today's conversation, you guys really, without, without directly saying it, you talked fundamentally about family values and you have young families, you talked about each of your wives respectively, to some degree, and, and young families. How, how this, the, the death benefit and all these components are all kind of mashed together in making something really valuable for your family. Not just the equity you're building, but the protection that it provides. And ultimately, it's my belief that this concept really ties and connects directly to family values to a large degree. And when you have people in free contract with one another, which is the basis of what mutual insurance is, then I don't need to know Miles or no Garrett, but I could have a policy with the same life company and we're in contract with one another. And when I pay a premium, that premium benefits you. And you pay a premium, that premium benefits me. Even though I didn't know you paid it or not. When you take a policy loan and pay some interest, it benefits me. And when I do that, it benefits you. And we're all in this magical pool that's managed by a really great group of people who've been doing it for 100 plus years really effectively, consistently, you know, sharing profits. That is a really beautiful business structure to be a part of. And the thing that really, I think is, connects people to it is that family value aspect. The people that care about others will voluntarily go and get life insurance because they want to make sure people are looked after. So there's a bit of a prerequisite to even entering a relationship with the insurance company initially. And that's you have to care about someone really fundamentally. And, and that element, I think, is something that Nelson, he does mention it briefly in the book. And I, I could imagine if I were talking to Nelson today, I would be asking him to make a revision and expand on that, because I think there's only about a Sentence or two sentences in there, kind of around it. And I've been thinking about it a lot lately, and I. And from our conversation, that's one of my takeaways, is that there is so much power in the desire to want to make sure that you're looking after other people and being able to be in a contractual relationship in a profitable way, that you're in business with people who already care about others. I mean, that's really cool, fundamentally. So, you know, hopefully you guys leave this conversation with something really unique there, and maybe that'll form part of next week's conversation when you guys are on the phone together or an hour.

Right. I don't know.

But I really want to appreciate you both for. For being on today. Miles. You know, I'm gonna imagine when you're, you know, operating as a general contractor and you're, you know, managing sub trades and all the things that you do. Being a former tradesperson myself, I'm a little familiar with that environment to a degree. What, you know, you don't usually show up, I would imagine, to a job site to take a look at what's going on wearing a cape. But chances are, when you're talking about this concept with others, you're helping create value for the people you serve in your business. You are being a hero. And our question for you is, who do you most want to be a hero to?

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, they're my. They're. They're the most important thing. Like, I. It's my responsibility to steward them for, you know, the short time that we have them. So there's that push and pull always of.

You know, building and then family and just trying to make that all work. But I do definitely have moments of clarity where it's like, okay, you know, like, this is. This is why we do it, definitely. So I would say it's setting the example for my kids, just being a hard worker and trying to be present when I am around. And, you know, I'm excited about also, like, sharing this with them once they get old enough. They're pretty small right now, so we're still just talking about parts and chasing bugs all the time, but, you know, we'll get there. So I can't wait for that because, you know, you start to think about, like, the generational implications of this, and that's when it really gets exciting, is leaving them, like, a system that's been developed over hopefully 80 years. So. But, yeah, I would say it's definitely. My kids love it.

Awesome. Well, gentlemen, on that note, I'm going to make a plug for this book Don't Spread the Wealth. I know the guy that the two guys involved in writing it a little bit and you can go ahead and get a copy. Go to don't spread wealth.com that's don'tspread wealth.com to pick up a copy of this book. And it's all about having those incredible meetings and the impact of that generational thinking so you can keep the money where it belongs with you and your family so that economic churning potential over generations gets better and better and better without having to beg, borrow or steal it from a government or a bank. You can keep that control at your hands, where it belongs. That's what we firmly believe. This should be about you and your family. And by taking care of them where it matters most, we actually end up taking care of a lot of others around us at the same time. That's just how economics works. So appreciate you both for being on the show today and we'll catch you on next week's episode. Hey, if you're enjoying this episode, hit subscribe on Apple and on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Never miss a show in the future.