344: Why Real Estate Investors Need Liquidity

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I was liquidated myself. I was up at 4 in the morning trying to like rush and make a collateral top-up, and I literally got the email and my stomach was in, is in my throat, and I was like, oh man. But you learn the lessons and it's great because I now can adjust from moving forward. Problem isn't so much what we think we know, it's what we think we know that just ain't so.

He would start every training when he would do his live seminar with, with, it's all about how you think.

It's all about how you think.

And they always show kind of their— they call it their 3 buckets. So you've got your, your cash and short-term liquidity, your income-producing assets, and then you've got your long-term savings. Before any greetings, how are you? How's, you know, how's the baby? It's, honey, we're getting more life insurance. I got good news because Neil had blown my mind on the plane.

There's never a problem until there's a problem. So if you're not preparing for the problem that will exist, that's on you.

You're going to be a hero to your family if you're the one that kind of explores this and implements this. Each individual person listening to this could be that person for their family.

Families and business owners, they think differently about how they save money, how they finance, how they deploy capital. It's not always the same. Often when we introduce business owners or real estate investors, they have certain things that they want to do, certain goals and objectives that may differ from the typical family across the nation. Now, we're going to talk a little bit about that today with my guest. And I'm excited about this because he's making his first appearance on the Wealth on Main Street podcast. And this amazing gentleman recently joined our organization. He's one of my amazing new teammates. And he's had a lot of focus on helping business owners and real estate investors in the last few years. Being one himself, he brings a unique experience to that. Now, interestingly enough, before we decided to hit the record button, I did learn a new factoid. And that factoid is, He is the person who lives closest to one of our main insurance carriers that we work with in Waterloo. He says he's only a 10-minute walk to their door, which I find totally fascinating. So we are excited to welcome Connor Eagleson to the program today. Connor, so happy to have you on the show.

Thanks, Richard. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. And I know I've been giving a couple of the local teammates the gears that I now bump them out as the closest Ascendant member to some of the core insurance companies, which are funny enough all located right here in Waterloo.

Yeah, I don't know how that became insurance central. I imagine one company did it and then the other, the other ones just kind of started springing up there as well. So it's kind of interesting. And they just did a massive renovation on that building. I haven't been there ever. I know Jason has been there a number of times. I've always wanted to go. I'm sure I'll put it on my list here one of these days. But I know they just spent the last few years doing a pretty large renovation on there and making it a a new facility, bringing it into the modern age after their 100th birthday. So kind of cool to see that. I guess they got rid of some of the green shag carpet that was probably in there in one of the offices. But nevertheless, it's really exciting that you're that close, but more importantly, that you're a part of the team now. And it's been an interesting journey. So let's rewind the tape a little bit, Connor. You know, walk us through how— let's just start with the infinite banking concept. Let's start with, you know, becoming your own banker over here. Where was the impetus where that entered your life specifically?

I'm happy to get into that if you'll entertain me. I've got a bit of a backstory to kind of lead up to it and put a couple pieces together. I think it'll help, Richard. So myself personally, like kind of, you know, personal career-wise, I grew up in a smaller town. I thought I was going to get into, you know, policing. I'm from just outside of Kitchener-Waterloo here. No traffic light, about 1,000 people, really small community. And typically when you grow up there, you know, you think you got about 4 or 5 career options, you know, teacher, firefighter, police officer, right? There's not a whole lot of of big picture thinking. So I was drawn to policing though, because I always liked helping people and, and being of service. So I went to university. I studied a lot of courses there, like sociology, psychology, human behavior. Like I was fascinated by, by those, those kind of courses. I did a lot of volunteer work, community service stuff, everything that, you know, policing career would entail. I joined the auxiliary, committed myself to that path. And then after university, I got into some, some interviews with, with the The timing didn't work out then. But, you know, one door closes, another one opens because at almost the exact same time, my now wife had an opportunity to go to New Zealand for teachers college. So I went over there with her for a year. I basically, you know, kind of said policing is going to be here when I get back. This is a really unique opportunity. So let's do this. It was an incredible year. We did a lot of traveling, you know, a lot of, you know, exploring. I also got hit by a car when I was over there. So a bit of a fun, fun tidbit. But I had surgery, you know, luckily I just broke my elbow. I was banged up in other areas, but I had a surgery and I was fine. But going through that definitely, you know, kind of gave me a bit of a perspective changer, if you will. I came home with a new outlook and a new appreciation for some elements of life for sure.

I would imagine insurance as well.

And there you go, right? First kind of introduction. I had to go through some insurance with my bicycle that was destroyed in the accident. So when we came home, I started realizing that, you know, a lot of those skills I'd been building before that year abroad for policing, the communication, the listening, the follow-through, you know, serving people, that translated really well into like sales and client-facing roles. So I got into like kind of an account manager type role. I bounced through a few different industries. I worked in agricultural, like dairy nutrition company. I worked in transportation. I even worked with this like online high-performance business coach. And that was like one of the really cool kind of experiences, my first exposure to like, you know, investing in yourself intentionally, learning about habits, putting in good systems, discipline, implementing a lot of the things that we taught in my own life. So that's, you know, been incredibly valuable for me. But all those roles, they kind of seemed unrelated and they're kind of, you know, unique looking back now. But each one of them, I gleaned something, taught me something about, you know, business, entrepreneurship, communicating with people. So fast forward to then, you know, COVID happened and like a lot of people, I suddenly had more time on my hands, was able to step back a bit and do some deeper thinking. It's also when I kind of got into like the personal development and financial education space. You know, someone, a friend of mine gave me Rich Dad Poor Dad. I started to read that. I was getting really interested in real estate and, you know, those self-education, financial education topics. And that's when I also stumbled down the infinite banking rabbit hole. So that was your original question. So a bit of a lead up to get there. But I approached like infinite banking from like a real estate side of things. You know, the idea of building up this pool of capital, you know, having these reserves that you could use for repairs on properties and then down payments. It made a lot of sense to me. Because what really clicked is right before I kind of found all this, we had just depleted, like I saved and saved and saved for years after university. Stuffed it into a TFSA, right? A balanced mutual fund, because I might need it in the next few years. And I'm going up that compounding curve, if anyone's familiar with like the debtor-saver kind of wealth creator curve. And then I depleted everything, bought a property, which was great. But when I— as soon as I saw that curve and how you can stay on it and, you know, leverage assets to keep your money growing and still use it for things like real estate, that clicked with me instantly. So that's kind of, you know, how I got to IBC. And There's a bit more to unpack there, but I want to take a break because I know I just threw a lot at you there, Virtue.

Well, no, it's a— yeah, it's a lot. It's very interesting to give a perspective on a well-rounded experience with some travel, some unique opportunities, but also testing a variety of things and growing skills. At the end of the day, we're a makeup of experiences and the skills that we develop throughout those experiences. And then how are we able to take those now and relate them to the people that we help and serve now? And there's Certainly some interesting themes that you've identified in there, Connor, which I think is important. But being introduced to, as you say, Rich Dad Poor Dad, often, you know, the purple gateway drug, I would call it.

Yes.

For a lot of people who are breaching into the topic base of taking control of their own financial circumstances. For a lot of people, including myself, I was already heading down that road, but that book just crystallized the direction and gave me a better framework for how to apply the energy that I was doing. And that book came into my life in 1999. So, you know, I owe it a lot to eventually leading me down the path to find Nelson, you know, 10 years later to finding Nelson's book. So, but Rich Dad Poor Dad was a gateway for me as well. So I totally get that. And for many of our clients and for many of our other advisors, you know, it's a similar path there. What's cool is, you know, the real estate excitement and interest, but the recognition that Hey, we've got a buildup of capital. I know I need to have it ready to go. And, you know, I'm going to take a guess, you tell me if I'm right or wrong. But you were putting money in, like, say, a mutual fund for liquidity purposes, but growth, you knew you might going to need it. But you also want to make sure it was doing something. But prior to draining it to go buy a piece of real estate, were you looking at that as savings? Or were you looking at that as investing?

Well, actually, kudos to my parents, I was looking at it as I'd finished university, I come back home, and I was paying rent. So That was, you know, a really great skill that they had implemented is we're good savers, like my grandfather, my father, my parents. So I was paying rent biweekly every month. And the idea was it goes into that account, I don't touch it. And then, you know, you're saving for a house. So it's, you know, practicing those good habits financially. So yeah, looking for like a modest growth. But I think by the end of it, Richard, like it was 6 or 7 years before I bought the property, it had maybe gone up by like a couple hundred bucks. It was more so just that practice of consistently saving and And like Nelson says, trying to conquer Parkinson's Law and you'll be able to put that money aside and not touch it. That was the idea, somewhere where, you know, it's not super accessible. It's in a separate kind of TFSA, not linked to my direct bank account. And it's there for when you need it for that real estate down payment.

There's a couple of really key things there. So for, you know, if we could put like on the screen, we'll have hot tip for all of our listeners is for the parents of you that are out there, you're trying to figure out how to help infuse some of these skills and mindsets into your kids. That's a perfect example that Connor just went through. And it's not unlike something that my mother did. She took the, the, you know, what they call baby bonus these days, the child tax credit or whatever, the various names it's been known as. And she started stockpiling that for myself and my siblings, and she invested it in mutual funds. And she earmarked that as our capital, not her capital. And granted, there's probably some things she could have done with it, but she didn't understand about being able to borrow against things in the way that we can do now. Had it been in a policy, it would have been a different story, but she invested it really effectively in mutual funds and And we ended up using some of those funds to go buy our first rental property. We had a family meeting about it. So I had my— we got our first rental property when I was about 12 years old. And, you know, that led to a number of other experiences, but it all started with that behavior, that habit, and those things. And so I learned similarly to follow through on some of those behaviors. And so really your parents and the generations before created a behavior-based thinking system and they Whether they forcibly did it or they cajoled you in some direction to be able to implement that, you were setting aside a critical payment amount that was going to be for housing costs. So that was worked into your budget. You had to work everything else around it. And they were diligent enough to say, cool, let's actually pile that up for you so you could do something successful. In other words, get out of our house is kind of what they were trying to do.

Yeah.

Which all around, there's like a trifecta of incredible things taking place with your parents and big high five and kudos to them for that.

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Certainly. And actually, you know, going back to what you said earlier, Richard, I've never heard someone kind of crystallize how you, how you worded what Rich Dad Poor Dad does. Like, I think when the right person gets their hands on that and like things start to click, like, I think I was ready to hear some of those concepts because previously, again, another shout out to my parents, they had bought our student rental in university. So I was offered by, by my parents like to buy in. Um, you know, obviously hindsight's 20/20, but they purchased this house in London, Ontario for $280,000. I think they asked me to put $5,000 down and I'd own, you know, the portion of their share that they went on with one of my roommates and their parents. And, you know, I had other things on my mind at that time and I wish they would have forced me at that point. But, you know, I effectively was the in-house landlord. I got a bit of a discounted rent. So I got some exposure to real estate because I'm seeing these rent payments come in, the mortgage payments go out, the difference being left in the account each month. And then they kind of looped me into writing off expenses. And having these tax deductions. And then, you know, we lived there for a few years, the house goes up by over $100,000. You know, just kind of getting that exposure. But at 21, 20 years old, I wasn't fully ready to dive into that. So it took a few years later until things started to click. So yeah, they really instilled those good habits. And now we've, you know, really got that bug and taken off. But yeah, it's cool to kind of think back and reflect on that. And I think you worded that really well on where that book found me at the right time. And it wasn't, you know, I probably would have gone in one ear and out the other at 20. But, you know, a few years later, I was ready to hear it.

Yeah, you know, the, the Purple Book is the purple pill for, you know, discovering what financial independence can be or become and a way of thinking about it. And, you know, Nelson's book, The Black Book, is the black pill around understanding how the banking system and, yes, you know, things like the overall model of how money creation takes place in general. And these good habits can correlate to creating more control about the things that you do to lead you on that path for financial independence. So they really do dovetail well together. And so you were on that journey, you were in that learning phase, you're really gobbling things up. You're obviously an avid learner, very curious individual. How now did you, did, you know, did the IBC come in? Was it through a video? Was it a podcast you were listening to? Did you, did someone say, hey, go buy this book? Was it another like forcible book sale? What was the situation?

It's actually really funny that you make another analogy about the purple pill, the black pill. I had also taken the orange pill during COVID and I got down into the Bitcoin rabbit hole. So funny when you dig into the history on money.

That's The Bitcoin Standard for anyone who doesn't know what book you're talking about.

I was going to clarify that. Yes, The Bitcoin Rabbit Hole. So when you talk about history and money and some of these, it really— you're digging back quite some time of what has served as money and how society has evolved around that. Um, so yeah, Nelson talks about that and Bitcoin. Like, there's a lot of similarities in that Austrian economic type of thinking. Um, so I'm kind of diving down both of those at the same time. And back to kind of continue on that, that career arc, um, I actually got into working for a Bitcoin company. We were effectively like a bank where we did loans, um, where Bitcoin was the collateral. So if anyone knows anything about Bitcoin, not a lot of people want to give up their keys or the control there, but there's also services that come you know, and people need in that space because they may be sitting on large capital gains potentially if they were to liquidate. They need to live their lives and they're sitting on large appreciation. So we offered a service where they can post that as collateral, get a loan against the asset, be able to go live their life, you know, oftentimes tax advantaged to do that. And so I would kind of help people explain how the products worked and, you know, do a lot of coaching, you know, not advising per se because they're making their own decisions, but explaining how the tool worked And being able to walk them through that process. So that was fascinating because, you know, if anyone remembers what the markets were doing during those periods, there was some big swings up, there was some big swings down. And those loans, unlike, you know, what we've come to know and love with our whole life policy— very boring, very conservative, a lot of guarantees, no margin calls—

Maximum control.

Maximum control. Yes, I had the contrast originally.

So boring.

I know. I have an incredible appreciation. I think I have a unique perspective on— people don't realize how valuable that peace of mind is because I can vaguely remember, or not vaguely, sorry, clearly remember, Richard, being on the phone with, you know, clients in Australia across the country. They've posted $2 million worth of their Bitcoin to get access to a loan. The market is quickly dropping 10%, 20%, 30% in a matter of hours. We're trying to call them because they need to post more collateral or else that loan can be liquidated. And, um, yeah, if you think about, you know, having a good sleep at night, uh, with a Bitcoin or with a whole life insurance policy loan, Versus having an utter chaos of this tax consequence that could come up and losing this asset that someone is very convicted in going to, you know, continue to grow over time. It was a really, really great experience. Like, I learned a ton there. And that kind of transitioned into very volatile space. I was very passionate learning about it. But with some of the events of, you know, the early 2020s, if you will, the company that I was working for was like a rapidly growing startup. And then there was like a big scale back because of some of the bad players in the space that have since been kind of flushed out. But I ended up at this point, Richard, where I was excited about that industry. And I was learning a lot. But then I kind of had to make a career move where, you know, I could kind of see that, unfortunately, there wasn't a whole lot of upside for me. I kind of exhausted that at that point in time, there was a bear market coming in. And so that's where I had at the same time started my own whole life policy, like started my first policy design for infinite banking. And I kept learning and, you know, diving down that rabbit hole at the same time, because again, a lot of overlap over those 2 spaces. And that policy actually was providing me a lot of solace during that time when interest rates on real estate were going up, carrying costs were going up, my Bitcoin position was going down, right, and leaning on the whole life certainty and like the guarantees that we have there was incredibly valuable. So yeah, the team that I had, you know, gotten my policy from They, you know, I'm kind of having an annual meeting telling them what's going on in my life. They saw that I was continuously learning and passionate about the IBC space as well. And I actually came on board and joined them. So that's kind of when things went to the next level in my own infinite banking journey because, you know, I wasn't just a client anymore. I was getting licensed. I was learning all the ins and outs of the product more so than what I, you know, was able to kind of be exposed to as a client. sitting across from clients and seeing, you know, the questions people had and how they wanted to implement it in their lives. And there's that saying that I'm sure you're familiar with, you know, if you want to master something, go ahead and try and teach it. And I definitely found that to be true because just like, you know, teaching the Bitcoin kind of product and deeper level of why it existed and, you know, you get deeper and deeper on these conversations with clients, doing the same thing on the IBC and the insurance side, it led to me having more questions of myself and wanting to go deeper and deeper. And I just became like really passionate about, you know, trying to help people, trying to make sure I was as well-informed as possible to guide them and lead them. And, you know, not just teaching something or like in a sales role, like some of my previous things, but more so like, this is what Maggie and I are doing. Like, this is how we're implementing things into our life, being authentic. And like, that just really kind of accelerated kind of my alignment with all of that. And yeah, my own journey. So hopefully that helps.

I think it's in Interesting. There's a couple things I'm going to piggyback on there. Of course, I learned a little bit about the degree to which your curiosity extends because we got to connect and actually be in person for the first time last week, actually, while we were attending your first Nelson Nash Institute Coaching Academy, the first one ever held on Canadian soil. So, that was a lot of fun. And we had a really good group of a little over 50 people in attendance and really a phenomenal experience. And you had some very good questions there, of course, which was great, especially around just the self-development track even, and how other people in the space are focusing their energy and their effort there on continual development, conquering the arrival syndrome. But what I find is interesting as you reflect on this period of time in the early 2020s, I feel like the way we're talking about it must be somewhat similar how people would talk about the Great Depression. Yeah. at some point when they got further along in time and we're reflecting back, but we're also like, but we don't really want to go all the way back. We don't really want to unpack it. And as you're describing the scenario and the circumstance of volatility and the impact that that volatility had on you personally, and then the, the peace of mind and the clarification of whole life insurance that you now had, and it's like, wow, there's like, there's a stark difference here. Not sure if becoming your own banker fits your goals? Trying to figure out if this is even for you? Well, save some time. Look, our free 7 Simple Steps report is the fastest way to find out. It's designed to give you total clarity and focus your effort on what really matters. Plus, you'll get access to 4 of our bestselling books as a bonus. Go ahead, get it at 7steps.ca. That's 7steps.ca. And the difference isn't necessarily the spreadsheet difference. It's the palpable feeling that you have when you lay your head down on your pillow. And as you were describing it, I thought to myself, so really, it had a very sobering effect. It's like when you've had too much to drink, too many happy beverages, and you're feeling, you know, high on the world with everything that's going on. That's what the market was doing. And then, of course, you're experiencing the crash and, you know, the hangover situation of, the Bitcoin market, the this market, the that market, and you're just looking for what, what is— where can I get regular— where can I get a nice strong coffee in the morning to sober me up for this situation? And so you had that in the form of an insurance policy, you know, to some degree. So I'm kind of picturing that in my mind. I'm like, yeah, there's kind of a— there's a real sobering effect that's created when you've gone through the life, the lived life experience of Market turmoil, things 100% outside of your human control. There's not a damn thing that you, you or your wife could do about it other than take the next initiative step about, you know, fix, correct, adjust, you know, um, move ourselves in the right direction and, and try to, you know, positively move forward. But all these other things are just kind of in chaos and out of control. And then there's this— stabilizing force, just like a solid rock underpinning what you do now. And there's a, there's a, there's an entire presence that it creates in your life. And so, how am I describing that for you? How's that land?

Your analogies, Richard, I don't know if it's, it's incredible. I got exposed to them a bit in Calgary. And maybe I was thinking we were opening the conversation, maybe the next workshop will have to be here in Waterloo. And we can go right into the actual office. And, you know, I can host and return the favor that that you and some of the other local Albertans did for us who were visiting. So we'll have to plant the bug in the ear there of maybe in a home-based Equitable workshop. But no, when you're saying that, yeah, like you said, I don't necessarily want to remember all of it, but I think there were some really great lessons there. I think when I first was learning about like these hard assets and these different, you know, places to store money and Rich Dad Poor Dad and, you know, cash is trash, right? And, you know, you got, you got to have these assets over time or else you're going to lose to inflation. I definitely went, you know, a little bit overly aggressive in terms of, you know, leveraging the resources that we had to get into real estate, to get into Bitcoin. And like, when you're young, it's, you know, you've got time on your side. But in my even, you know, journey of the last 7 years of really diving down these rabbit holes, I have total new appreciation for that peace of mind bucket. And it's funny because a lot of the learning that I've gone through, it's from a real estate investment group that I'm with here in Southwestern Ontario, and they always show kind of their— they call it their 3 buckets. So you've got your cash and short-term liquidity, you've got, you know, your income-producing assets. So for them, that's like a business, a good rental property, or a portfolio of properties. And then you've got your long-term savings. So they like gold traditionally, they like Bitcoin. Like, that's where I got some of that exposure. And they always say, and they always try and warn the group of us, like, everyone overlooks bucket 1, and they want to get into the assets, they want to get into the business, they want to leverage, they want to, you know, think about all these other exciting things. But when things hit the fan, it's bucket one that really allows you to make sure that you don't have to make any rash decisions on those other buckets that you are building for the long term. So I've just like, that's where I think this, this whole concept of the whole life insurance and having access to capital in these policies that are so rock solid, like that has just become my bucket one. And I essentially want to get as much in there as possible so that then I have permission to go Look at bucket two business real estate. Look at bucket three long-term savings, but fill up that first cup first and then be able to go explore those other areas. So I think that's really simplified everything for me. I don't have to go look at different mutual funds and like you know the volatility in the market and like other things with traditional planning. Kind of distill it down to those core buckets is what I've narrowed into the last few years and the peace of mind of knowing that that bucket's going up every single day in that cash component with the insurance policies. If I don't make it home one night from you know my home office, which will be tricky, then Maggie's taken care of and like all of that. So yeah, it's it's incredible. I didn't have an appreciation for it as much as I do now. I was thinking more about the access to capital, but the insurance piece and and the safety piece is helps me sleep really well at night because I definitely lost sleep in that Bitcoin role with interest rates rising on real estate, and I was liquidated myself on one of my own. Like I was using the product with that Bitcoin company and. I got liquidated. I was up at 4 in the morning trying to like rush and make a collateral top-up. And I literally got the email and my gut just like my stomach was in my throat and I was like, oh man. But you learn the lessons and it's great because I now can adjust for moving forward.

I think it's really important to identify that because in the timeframe that I've been doing this, what I have, I feel like there's a palpable application that you can provide and you can bring into the conversations you have with your clients. If you personally have experienced loss, you've been through the wringer, you know, you've got all the battle scars, you've been knocked around. I always, you know, may not have seen this, but one of my presentations, I've used the clip from Tommy Boy where he gets, you know, he gets hit in the face with a 2x4. And I call them 2x4 moments. And I just love it because it's such a really capturing image. And if you felt that in your life in whether it's in an investing element or some other kind of market control situation, the more that you've had that experience, it creates a better way of looking at it the next time. You have a different context and you can bring that into the conversations you have with people and you can both recognize and resonate with them if they have also had that experience. And likewise, if they're new and they're young, I was on with a younger gentleman here just yesterday. Wonderful young guys, really focused on doing some amazing things with him and his wife and their 3 kids. But he's also very, very animated. He really wants to grow and do things. And like, cool, that's great. Here's what you don't know is in the future, if you get too aggressive in this, like these are the things that are going to come at you if you become too aggressive in this area. We need to really think about stabilization, cash flow, like what's your liquidity like so that when opportunity comes, when the market shifts, You can pounce and be more aggressive at that time. So, you know, it's just, I think there's a capacity that you can bring to conversations in the coaching that you do with clients now that it's all led to the enhancement of Connor's future, if that makes any sense.

It definitely does. And that's actually one of the things I know we were kind of reflecting on, on the Calgary coaching workshop. One of the things I appreciated the most there were some of like the instructors' stories. They've You know, many years in the industry. And just the whole idea of like, the way that we can serve our clients the best is by becoming the best version of ourselves. So that really resonates with me. Like, there was a great lot of tactical stuff and, you know, diving into Nelson's book and talking about policy design, like all that stuff's fantastic. But just going back to kind of that first principles and like, you know, it all starts with our own responsibility to want to learn this and your own banker becoming your own banker. Like, we have to take that responsibility. And then for us as advisors, kind of leading someone that's new to this space, I really resonated with that. I think it was like Mike or Bruce or, you know, maybe even you, where we all need to kind of experience it. Like, we need to walk the walk. Like, we need to be taking policy loans. Like, we need to obviously be funding our system. We need to be thinking long range. Like, all those things that we talk about. And you're 100% right that if we can speak to where our clients are at as business owners, as real estate investors— I was just on a call this afternoon with someone that, you know, was excited to get his first policy loan to get into the, the crypto market because he thinks there's gonna be a crash. And like, I was kind of sharing some of the things you were just sharing of like things I've learned that can like help him outside of just the whole life. Like, as we know, the insurance company and the whole life policies are going to do what they're going to do. There's not a whole lot like of curveballs there, but it's all up to us and our behavior, and that's going to influence things a lot more. So if we can bring those skills and those backgrounds, I think it just helps us serve better. And that was something from the coaching academy that I really, really resonated with. And, you know, I'm obviously wanted to, you know, bet on myself and keep digging in on my own journey so that I can kind of lead authentically and have those experiences to share with clients.

Yeah, amazing. So you went from being client to getting licensed, you're thrust into an environment where you're now serving individuals, you're connecting with them, you're learning things about, call it policy design, structuring people's— other people's cash flow, that sort of stuff, and how you can you know, work some magic and making things a reality. What would you say you enjoyed most about initially getting started in that process? And then where was the pivot point where you came to realize that, you know, there's more here that I want to do and learn, and it's time to expand my horizons? So maybe take us through that. Okay, farmers, business owners, look, stop letting banks control your growth. Our book, Growing Your Own Capital, shows you how to finance equipment, land, inventory, and the expansion of your own family system. Get a free digital copy at growyourowncapital.com. That's growyourowncapital.com.

Yeah, no, it's a really great question, Richard. And again, I've kind of been reflecting on some of this, like preparing for this interview, you know, having some time over the summer when I made a transition in my career as well to now join the Ascendant team. You know, I'd had a handful of years, 6+ years experience as a client and kind of student, if you will, learning IBC, and then about 4 years as an advisor on that side of the table as well. Maggie and I have like 5 of these policies of our own. We're using it in our lifetime or in our day-to-day, like, and, you know, planning to use it for the rest of our lifetime. And yeah, I think the kind of the bug for me was the first clients and like actually working with someone and going through that process, like knowing what they were feeling because I'd been on that side of the table. And then being that person that can help guide them and seeing the different situations. I got a lot of great experience with that and a lot of like repetitions. And, you know, the more I kind of saw different things, the more my own understanding of things evolved. And like, I realized I didn't know, like Nelson's quote, right? The problem isn't so much what we think we know, it's what we think we know that just ain't so. And like, you're unpacking, you're just continually going down these rabbit holes. So I think kind of the culmination of all that was Earlier this year, Maggie and I find out that we're going to be welcoming our own kind of expansion into our family. So, we've got 4 awesome nephews that we spend a lot of time with and we always knew we wanted to have a family. But we found out that, yeah, we're expecting a child coming up in about 4 weeks here. So, it's happening rapidly. So, that naturally, obviously, again, another time for pause and reflection. That car accident was one time. COVID was another time. I can point to a few kind of specific times in my life where early in the year, you know, setting some goals for the year, kind of thinking ahead, thinking long term, right? Like Nelson talks about, about family, you know, what that's going to look like, what I want it to look like for me, for Maggie, for our child, and that next chapter. And then at the same time, coincidentally, that real estate group I referred to, one of our teammates that I just bumped out for being the closest to, you know, the headquarters, Neil, who's in Kitchener, about 15 minutes from me, We're both in the real estate group. So we had bumped into each other at one of the events that they have. They have kind of these, you know, semi-annual events, and those are always great for energy and networking. I knew he was in the industry that we had both kind of gone down the rabbit hole as clients at the same time. We'd both become advisors at different companies at the same time. So yeah, we kind of were talking about our paths and just talking shop, if you will, about our experiences and, you know, how we're kind of going about our different things. And that's where, you know, one conversation led to another. I really liked kind of what Ascendant, you know, how the model was looking here. And I started to look at things a little more seriously. And that's, you know, now I'm on the team a few months later. So we were just joking that Neil's about to go on a holiday for a couple weeks. He earned some time off and he probably strategically recruited me because now I can help, you know, handle his clients when he's gone and give him some peace of mind there. But no, it all timed out really well and I'm really excited. excited in my first few months here to join the team.

Yeah, amazing. And what would you say, so extending that a little bit further, what would you say has materialized for you? You know, everyone listening has been in a conversation at a networking function and, you know, you have, you might be inspired by a conversation or you might learn something, then you might go look into a little bit more. But then there's like, there's looking through the glass versus, you know, looking You know, being in, being inside the jar as an example. So you're kind of in the proverbial jar now with the team and Ascendant, and you've been exposed to a lot, like, like lots gets, gets thrown at you real fast and it kind of firehose. So how would you, how would you express, express to someone like what is, what is different or what is unique or what have you learned so far in the timeframe that you've been with the company? Like, how is life different now?

Yeah, no, really good question. I thought you might ask something like this. So yeah, I think, I think, you know, I bring a bit of a unique experience because definitely when I came on board, I think, you know, people come to Ascendant with different ranges and backgrounds. Like the fact that I've been in the industry for 4 years, worked with a few hundred clients, like I knew what I didn't know. And then, you know, I saw kind of a different way of doing things here. And, you know, there was, I didn't want to, I wanted to check any of my own biases at the door and I wanted to like adopt the Ascendant way, which I've really kind of enjoyed. And I think I bring some experiences and I've learned some new things. I think the biggest thing with that is, you know, Neil's been incredibly valuable. Like, to your point about being outside the jar, like, as I'm sure we've all known, like, we can have a conversation about an opportunity and get someone's perspective. And like, you know, you kind of got to make the decision at some point whether you're, whether you're in or whether you're out. So he's been incredibly valuable. Any of the conversations I had, I did my diligence before with other team members. Everyone had glowing things to say. Even in the industry, I'm talking to like contacts at the insurance companies, like trying to get impartial opinions. All positive things to say. And it's all transpired as I've come on as well, as everyone's been incredibly friendly. You know, it's a good-sized team. There's a lot of support. There's a lot of opportunities for connections and learning. So that's been really valuable. And then I think just even the tighter, like within that, we've got our own like little pod groups or masterminds of other people you can bounce ideas off of. So Neil and I have been working closely and then, you know, yourself, Jason, leadership, that's all been really valuable. So I think It just it just fit really well with when I was doing some of that reflection and kind of mapping out the longer term. I wasn't just looking, you know, previously those other jobs, you know, every 18 months, every two years, I'd kind of been moving from from role to role when I had exhausted the learning. And I think what's really clicked in in this industry, like the last four or five years, financial services is like this. I know where I want to be, and then the the Bitcoin roller coaster was fun, but now the insurance like. You hear it all the time. It's like just a bread and butter industry. It's not going anywhere. Like, you know, there's rivers of money flowing here. So if we can kind of carve out our portion and we can dip in our bucket, like both personally with me putting my own money where my mouth is and then building a business and a career in here, it's something I'm excited about. Especially when you see on like, you know, the webinars and the continuing education that we're on, that the average person's like in their 50s, you know, mid-50s and you can come in with some young energy and really build something for the long term. That's what really resonated with me with Ascendant was they have that model in place, the way they serve clients, the business I want to build myself, and then supporting clients for that long range. I think that kind of all culminated and came together with the opportunity.

Very cool. Very cool. Let's touch on serving clients because you've had an opportunity to do that and We learn skills along the way. And because you're an avid learner, and clearly the idea of growth and exposure to new things, constant challenging of yourself is obviously very clear. What would you say you've picked up on or recognized in whether it's a conversation with another teammate or some of the ongoing training that we have? What have you learned or are you beginning to recognize about how we like to approach or the things we try to build or create? create for our clients here? Like, what's come up from that vantage point?

Yeah, another great question. It's actually something where I've always thought this before, and it's kind of gone another level with Ascendant now, is it goes back to that quote about Nelson. Like, it's right, you know, I think on page 3 or 4 of the book, but it's not so much what we think, what we don't know, it's what we think we know that just isn't so. And this was a big topic of conversation at the Coaching Academy last week in Calgary, just the financial noise that's out there. And it's almost that we have to unlearn things before we can be ready to kind of learn and move forward. And I think looking back on my own journey, I was a bit of a clean slate, which is a blessing in disguise where I kind of like, you know, the lights went on and my, like, I just got excited about learning and I didn't really have any of these biases. Like, sure, I used a TFSA and a mutual fund, but it didn't really work out all that well for me. Like, it was okay. It was a forced savings plan, but It's not like I was like, you know, all in on the stock market or like, you know, had any of these preconceived biases. I thought real estate was a good investment just from, you know, you look at wealthy individuals, a lot of them own real estate. But when I started to learn about IBC and Bitcoin and this first principles type of thinking, I didn't really have to undo any previous learning. Whereas other people, depending on what their background is and what walk of life they come from, they might be really fixated on a certain mindset or certain beliefs about money. So one of the things I think we do a really good job of, and it actually comes up more often than you would think, is that yes, people are excited to learn about IBC, but we almost have to peel back some of the things and the preconceived things, beliefs. You know, people hold these beliefs, whether they're right or wrong, it's their belief. We have to maybe sometimes guide them towards, you know, resetting some of that or questioning some of the things that they come in and no fault of their own. Like there's a lot of noise out there that, you know, we're inundated with constantly. But it almost starts with unlearning. So to answer your question, it's not so much like, what are we teaching, but what are we helping them unlearn and question? Not so much like the math, but more of back to that human behavior, right? Which I find fascinating because that's what I was interested in way back when I was thinking about a career path. It was like the human psychology, the human behavior element of this. And that's what we focus on a lot in our conversations.

Yeah, it's very interesting. It's also very gratifying. And There's a huge component of recognizing that we all come from different places and we all have different experiences. But in order to implement a strategy that's going to become a lifelong thing, it's going to— as David Stern says, it's a lifestyle. It's not just something that you do. It's not a product that you buy on the shelf. It's something that you choose to do for your life. And ideally, when structured well, you pass on the life skill and the lifestyle to the next generation. Not unlike, you know, your parents forcing you to make a biweekly rent payment. So, like, that's a passing of the torch type model. And the more that you can do that, now you can cascade not just a— you're not cascading a product through time because the product has a lifespan, but the thinking doesn't. And so, you mentioned first principles and us being able to clarify, isolate, and get people to reaffirm And go back to what those first principles are. Nelson's first principles in this scenario is those are the building blocks. So that's how we, it's like there's a build, there's building blocks for an organ. I'm not a biology guy, but there's building blocks to create an organism and cells. Well, these are the building blocks and the mindset to help create an effective infinite banker, someone who's taking that role intentionally and moving that process of becoming your own banker into a lifestyle in their world. And it, and it's, there's no overnight sensation. It's something that does take time. Some, some people might gravitate to it faster. Some people have more dollars to put in and get started than others. Hey, if you're getting value from this and you haven't subscribed yet, hit the subscribe button right now. Look, we're marching towards 10,000 subscribers and every single one helps us bring more powerful content on taking control of your money. That's what we're all about. Go ahead, hit it now. That is not what determines whether they're going to be successful. What determines if they're going to be successful is how they think about the process and how they want to embrace it in their life. What's their— and there's some motivation elements there, but it really comes back down to your ability to reimagine, reset your thinking. And Nelson, rethink your thinking is rule number 5. And really what it means is ruminate. And the word ruminate is ultimately to ponder and think about that which you're already thinking upon fundamentally. So Nelson was really fond of that. And he would start every session— he didn't come up with this idea, I can't remember who he said he did— but he would start every training when he would do his live seminar with, it's all about how you think. It's all about how you think.

Yeah.

You see, it's all about how you Think. Same thing 3 times, but 3 different emphases that would get your brain in a position where you were ready to receive for the next 10 hours that he was going to drop bombs on you, basically. So, yeah.

And I just had my first exposure to— like, I know Nelson's gone and he's passed the teachings and it's fantastic that that's continuing, but the Calgary workshop, that environment, like you talked about with the networking event, it's just a different energy when we're all there and we're in person and we're open to learning. And I've read this book, you know, half a dozen times on my own. But the deep study that we got into, it's just like, to your point, like you're learning things you don't know. Like I was just saying this to a client who's excited to start his policy. Like we just got off the call an hour ago. And like I said, this is just the beginning. Like I've been here for 6 years and like there's things every single day that I'm picking up on. And just like in terms of continuing on your question about why Ascendant and what makes it different, you know, I got to give Neil a shout out where we were on a flight home together back to Kitchener-Waterloo from Calgary. Yeah. And we had just spent, you know, 2 full days incredible at the workshop bouncing ideas. I had pages and pages of notes, as did he. We joked about the poor soul that is in the 3rd seat beside us on the plane is either going to become like an expert in insurance or they're going to be driven crazy by us on the flight. Well, that guy unfortunately was trying to grab a nap and we were just nonstop for 4 hours back and forth, like different ideas. And to your point there about thinking and rethinking your thinking, Like, again, I've got 5 of these policies. I've been doing this for 6 years. I've been advising for 4 years. Like, I left that plane and Neil was laughing at me because my wife picked us up at the airport and, you know, she's 7 and a half months pregnant. She shakes Neil's hand, they introduce each other, and then I give her a hug. And before, you know, he pointed this out afterwards, before any greetings, how are you? How's, you know, how's the baby? Whatever. It's, honey, we're getting more life insurance. I got good news because Neil had blown my mind on the plane about You know, the way that he's recapturing some of his real estate income. And then obviously an obvious one is, you know, we've got a little one on the way, some of that generational planning. But being around people that are doing it, like, you know, a good coach like Neil that I'm learning from, and now I'm going to be able to collaborate with him and collaborate with you and other advisors and share that with our clients. Like, I have a whole new perspective and approach on how we can utilize this through the real estate side of things from a 4-hour conversation with Neil. Imagine what some someone can do when they, you know, start to get on meetings with us and, and unpack some of this.

Yeah. And the fact that you can, you, you still have that excitement and you're maintaining it over a long flight. A lot of people have been on a long flight and then they're like, yeah, I'm ready to turn off and go to sleep too. And as you're describing that, I'm, I'm literally picturing, you know, memories of Jason and I doing that, leaving Birmingham, Alabama, cuz it was usually 2 to 3 flights depending on the situation. Often we'd end up in Denver, we'd have a stayover in Denver, And then we would hop on the next flight and sometimes we'd be in similar seats, sometimes not. But like, he'd be reading the book, he would get up, he would walk down to wherever I was or vice versa. And then he'd say, hey, did you see this? And then we would start talking about it and like, he's sitting in the aisle. So like, I recognize those experiences because a lot of my early journey here after first meeting Nelson coming back from, you know, our think tank, because we only had one annual event to go and congregate. Yeah. That is how we used to do it then. And so now with the think tank and the coaching academies because there's more options and opportunities. Plus we have at the Nelson Nash Institute, there is monthly sessions that people can tune into now. There's a lot more opportunity to have those conversations. And so I'm glad that you brought up the coaching academy a number of times because we have a lot of amazing advisors who listen in and some people who either want to do this or maybe they're already doing it and maybe they haven't been to a coaching academy. They don't even know what that's all about. So that was your real kind of first exposure to an event put together or created by the Nelson Nash Institute. What were some of the other things that came up for you there? Like, you got to see David present and tell his story. Obviously, you know, we have different people come in and facilitate. We did some very deep dive into certain areas of the book, some that I teach people about that I suggest you never go into. But, you know, there was also conversations about not how to structure a policy because there's no one way, but how to think about policy design relative to your client's circumstances. So, that's something we talked about. We talked about the use of language and the misuse of language. So, what were some of the things that you came away from that event with and just the connection point of being in that environment in general?

Yeah, I think you covered a lot of great ones there. And, you know, kudos to you as well because that was the first time I got to see you present and I learned a ton from hearing your talks. I think it's actually one of my big takeaways. Like, I know you covered a bunch and that list was thorough and like 100% agree with all those. But one of the ones I really enjoyed was Bruce doing the talk about, again, kind of back to us as advisors and how we're operating. And I think really resonates with me because us, like you said, we work with a lot of business owners is kind of our focus. Neil and I specifically in some of the stuff we're carving out here on the team. And so, he was talking about like, you know, getting clear on your niche and who you're serving. And some of the marketing principles that are timeless, that are never going to change. But how you're communicating your messaging, how you're showing up yourself, no matter what your business is, right? If you're a farmer, if you're in transportation, if you're in insurance or financial services, there's that area of like, we're in this world now where everything's online. We're putting out content. And that's something where I've actually been really leaning into that more recently because I feel like with that career journey that I was on, I enjoyed those roles. There was good people and like I always kind of connected with the people I was working with, but I never felt like fully aligned, if you will, with, you know, that if you've heard of that concept, the Japanese concept of the ikigai, have you heard of that?

Mm-hmm.

Where the things— yeah, yeah. For anyone that's not familiar, I believe it's things you love, things you're good at, things you can be paid for, and things the world needs. So, it's like this idea of having 4, you know, big Venn diagram. I don't know if that's the right word, but then there's an intersect and in the middle you find your ikigai. So, like, Previously, I've been good at 3 of the 4 or 2 of the 4. But now in this role where like you're serving people, I feel like I'm really making an impact. I feel like it's something that is really something that people need. And obviously, we can make a business out of it. That's great. But that was something that really resonated with me because putting out content, posting on LinkedIn, coming onto platforms like this, I'm writing a client newsletter, just trying to keep people informed of, again, how I'm using this in my life and showing up authentically. And then, you know, people are gonna attract, you're gonna attract or repel, but you want your people. And that was something we talked about from like a business perspective is you want that person that you want to work with. So it's not even like the IBC weeds of like policy design or like numbers or anything, illustrations like that wasn't it at all. It was more so something I think we can all take away for whatever our career or profession or business is, is just like, how do you show up authentically? Are you taking care of yourself? Are you, are you, you know, filling up your own cup so that you can then go attract and find those right people that you want to surround yourself with? So I thought that was a really cool presentation that Bruce did. I think you were maybe involved with that one too, a little bit. So I'll give you some credit there too. But that was one of my favorites.

Whether Bruce wants to, wants it or not, I tend to insert myself into his presentations no matter what. You know, Bruce is amazing. Shout out to Bruce Wainer with the Money Advantage podcast. He's a great friend and an amazing guy. Actually, we're trying to get him back on the our show as well for another interview. He's a phenomenal guy. He's very knowledgeable. And actually, Bruce and I, we went and attended our first think tanks together. I don't know if we connected at that time, but we certainly did over the years. And he is a really incredible resource of information and knowledge, very calm and very patient guy. And he does understand things like Colbys. So, as a Colby Certified Consultant, Bruce and I like to nerd out over Colbys and things of that nature. And he's got a unique one because he's a mediator or facilitator, as they indicate. He's all in the mid-range, and so he can kind of fit. He's like the, the unsung hero of every team environment. Um, maybe a little less chaos than I might bring into the typical situation. Uh, and you, you probably identified a little bit of that with our presentation styles over the 2-day, the 2-day experience.

It was great to get a mixed bag of, of different things. But yeah, obviously, you know, the other stuff that happens at those events, for anyone that's never been, like The side networking, the lunches, the breaks, like, you know, anytime you're in person, you're always going to get value out of that. But I loved, and what I thought was really unique, I honestly had no expectation because like you said, I've never been to one before. I think there was maybe, what, 70 advisors there and then a handful of instructors, if I'm right. So it was a small enough environment where, you know, you could yell something across the room and everyone knows what's going on. And, you know, there's kind of that sidebarring, but then it's also big enough where you're getting a lot of different ideas bounced around. And it's remaining interactive and intimate, but there's like enough people where every lunch you're having lunch with someone new. Every break you can connect with someone new. You can shake everyone's hand, get their own perspective. And then obviously now following up afterwards and taking some learnings offline from or off the event when we all go our separate ways. I thought that was really cool too, was obviously that in-person element and the connections made.

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You know, one thing I think is interesting about it that, that's worth noting, you know, you're right that you get a chance to meet everyone. There's an intended structure around how it's designed to kind of create that environment. That's why we cap the room so we don't have so many people showing up. You want to be able to have that networking and community building. But, you know, we're all in this environment to learn and help people understand Nelson's work, help understand how the process of becoming your own banker works, get better at ourselves, sharpen the saw. But additionally, you know, in the old world, I say the old world because I think this is, there's still people who maybe recognize or see this. I haven't in a while. And I think I've just, I don't know if I've shifted out of it, but the idea of competition, it was always prevalent, especially in like financial services and in a lot of sales roles. Yeah. And it's really just not the situation here with what we do with the Infinite Banking Concept. There's much more of a community-minded model. And it's a big, wide, giant ocean. There's, you know, nobody can own the ocean. There's so much opportunity to help people. And what we want to be able to do is we want to have similar concise messaging that matches Nelson's principles so that we're reasonably marching to the beat of the same drummer. But how we go and play the drum, you know, we want to be able to keep the beat, but we might play a different size of drum or a different type, or we might use different drumsticks. But we're maintaining a similar beat. And that's kind of the key element. But that opportunity to be able to get to know people who are colleagues in this business and build those relationships, it's really powerful. What I've found is that the insurance industry as a whole in general is very receptive to mentorship. It's very receptive to coaching, very receptive to wanting to help others who are newer in the business succeed. And I suspect you took some of that away in your experience just being a part of the group. Connor, you got to experience the community, the coaching academy from a unique perspective. It's your first event. It's a collaborative environment. There's advisors, they're all there to help people implement this process, but they're all, a lot of them are running their own individual business. There's people from the United States, people from Canada. Did you ever get the feeling like it was a competitive environment or was it just something that you felt like, wow, everyone's embracing one another here and we're all trying to move forward to help support Nelson's mission?

Yeah, no, definitely the latter there. There was no competition. You know, everyone's in their different geography, but a lot of us were in Canada and then there's, you know, a good chunk of them in the States. And technically, you know, everyone is in competition, if you will. But like you said, there's plenty to go around. It's a large ocean out there. But it actually goes back to what we were talking about kind of when we got down this, like, how do we get on this rabbit hole? Both you and I at different points in time in our life. But that whole Rich Dad, Poor Dad mindset, side of things where a lot of this starts. And that book helps you realize is there's like an abundance approach like, like Rich Dad had, and then there's more of a scarcity mindset where, you know, there's not enough to go around like, like, like Poor Dad has. So, um, I think that that's kind of, you know, what I experienced there at the academy too, is everyone's there investing in themselves. We're all, you know, taking time out of the, the businesses we're trying to build to collaborate and get better to serve people better. And, you know, we're trying to have that, um, rising tides raise all ships approach, right? There's no competition and everyone's trying to help each other get better. And that was something that I really enjoyed out of the experience.

Nice. No, I love that. Well, Connor, I'm going to do something that Jason would like to do if he was here. And we're going to do a Connor's top 10 money lessons countdown. And I'm going to fire off a question for you. And you're not allowed to prepare for it. So you're just going to answer off the cuff. There is no right answers or wrong answers. It's, uh, it's what comes up for you. And, uh, we'll, we'll count a few down and then we'll have a little bit of fun with that. How does that sound?

I'm up, I'm up for it.

Okay, first, so let's, let's do this one. What's a financial belief that you used to have that you no longer believe?

Um, I think just as a quick side note before I answer, you probably want rapid fire, but Secrets of the Millionaire Mind was a really great book for me originally. I think right around when I read Rich Dad, T.

Harv Eker.

T. Harv Eker. So there's a lot, like I remember 17 in there and I resonated with a lot of those, but I think it's just, you know, kind of the middle-class mindset versus the abundance mindset, similar to what we just said, is I had to replace a lot of beliefs about like, you know, working for your money, being able to leverage your skills and yourself, and it's okay to like kind of strive for more and have a more abundant approach. So that book was a great one. Also, The Top 10 Distinctions Between Millionaires and the Middle Class. That's another really easy one. that every time I read it, which is, you know, once or twice a year, those like rhyme off. And so my answer would be read Top 10 Distinctions Between Millionaires and Middle Class. And all of those is whatever it says. I can't remember them all on the spot.

Got it. Okay, great. So what would you say then is the worst financial advice that people still regularly receive?

Oh man, there's so many, but I feel like unfortunately just that kind of, you know, stock approach of Load up your registered accounts and like, you know, focus on that because you get an upfront tax deduction. Like so many people, unfortunately, that's just accepted in society. And not to say that it's not the right thing for certain individuals, but again, we just need to kind of question things and peel that back a little bit and get to the root of why are we doing that, or why would someone do that, and is it really what they want to give up control of all their money, you know, being— not to get down a rabbit hole, but be in partnership with the government and not know taxes in the future. And not have access to that. So you can get down a whole rabbit hole there. But I think that it's just unfortunate where blanket people accept advice like that and like you look like the bad guy because you're questioning anything. Whereas, you know, if anyone did a little bit of research, right, put in 10 hours, you know, 20 hours of kind of study on money and financial education, and you're going to hopefully start to question that pretty quickly.

I'll summarize that as don't be sheep. Okay, love it. Okay, perfect. All right. So how about this one? What is something that business owners

Hmm. Yeah, I think that kind of goes back to like, again, we have this notion in society that like cash is trash and like it's burning a hole in your pocket. But I think if they realized that there was a place where they could store some of that capital, where you and I might be able to kind of help guide them and educate them on a potential option for housing some of that capital, where it's still working for them, it's still showing up on the balance sheet in a very similar way. But instead of maybe being in a traditional bank account, bank it's in a different account. It's just in a little bit of a different storage container with potentially a life insurance company with incredible track record of paying dividends and having tax-free growth and tax-free access to capital. That would be kind of a common, again, belief that a lot of people have is, you know, it's not an expense to move your money into something like this. It's like a, it's a better storage vehicle or warehouse for your wealth, if you will, that you can still keep liquid to pursue your business opportunities. I know business owners are a little more cautious of being fully leveraged. But just that idea of like, I can't have any cash is a common misconception and there's better places to store it that keeps you in control to be able to use it to put it back in your business and your other investments and the things you want to focus on.

Yeah, I love that. I would also say great job shouting out to Nelson's second book, Building Your Warehouse of Wealth. And I would encourage our listeners, if you're not familiar with Ekster's Pyramid of Collapsing Values and the rush in a difficult marketplace cash might be something to take a look at. Okay, here's the next one. Real estate investors, we talked a little bit about those guys today. What is something that they might misunderstand around liquidity?

Yeah, another good question. You didn't let me prep for these at all. I think the biggest thing— I don't know if I'm directly answering the question, but the biggest hangup I get from real estate investors is they get fixated on the interest rates, right? They're all about trying to get like the the lowest rate on their mortgage or their line of credit, and, and they're missing the forest through— for the trees, if you will. Yeah. Where it's not about the interest rates, right? As you know, if you dig in on Nelson's book, he talks about that. If you understand the concept, the numbers don't matter. If you don't understand the concept, the numbers still don't matter. But they get hung up on that piece. And so yeah, they don't realize that the liquidity element is, is so incredibly valuable. Um, I personally haven't experienced this, but I've heard stories of, you know, They might have access or think they have access to liquidity because they got a line of credit set up on their house. Well, on a smaller scale, like I've had notices from, from the big banks in Canada where they're pulling a line of credit because I haven't used it. You know, the markets start to come down. Well, then all of a sudden that $100,000 that you think you had tied to your property, you know, that's not available. They freeze assets like that. I'm sure you've seen things like that in, in your experiences, Richard. So I think that would be, again, a common misconception is they think that they've got liquidity, or they're not even thinking about liquidity because they're so leveraged that they haven't built that reserve or that emergency fund. So hopefully that story I shared earlier, and I know a lot of my real estate friends went through a similar experience where they got squeezed, carrying costs went up, tenants were potentially struggling, maybe they missed a few months of rent, like, wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of, again, warehouse where you've got some reserves and some liquidity sitting there, you don't have to have everything deployed, but you've got the ability to go put it into a down payment when that good deal comes up. Or even almost as importantly, and often overlooked, be able to weather a storm of 3 or 4 or 6 months where you need some access to capital without anyone, you know, calling it on you or canceling it or telling you the repayment terms, like just having that total control.

That is so critical. And having experienced some of those things myself, real estate goes through cycles and you don't know when the cycle is going to turn. And if you're not ready, it's— that's not pretty. It's a situation of where it rains, it pours. And if it's pouring, and it's also leaking into your foundation, that's problematic. As our, as our friend James Netherery says, there's never a problem until there's a problem. So if you're not preparing for the problem that will exist, that's on you. Okay, here's the next one. What do some insurance agents often misunderstand about life insurance?

Oh, yeah, I know Nelson talks about it. And he uses some, some choice words. I don't know if I'll report them, repeat them. I think he calls them gophers at the insurance companies. But I think unfortunately, again, like the barrier to get your license, like yes, there's, there's restrictions and like there's education you got to go through, but they're not focusing on like these specific detailed kind of niche concepts that we specialize in. And we spend time going to Calgary to learn about and investing in ourselves and really diving into like kind of the mechanics of the products, which, uh, like we said, is really important to understand ourselves. We may not need to give every single detail of that to a client. They need to know conceptually. But unfortunately, the average individual insurance advisor, other financial professionals as well, what normally happens? Well, you got to follow the money, right? Like we talked about all episode, the incentive structure. If you work for a big bank or you work for a captive insurance company, what are they often trying to do? They're trying to unfortunately, you know, push product and be salespeople to get those, you know, revenues coming in for the business. They don't really take a big picture view of like, what is the best option for this client, especially if they're captive under one company. They've got a few products on the shelf that can offer. So I think that's, you know, the average advisor. I think, you know, again, I know I'm giving you longer answers here, but the trusted advisor approach that we're taking to try and truly figure out what someone needs and the root of why they're even speaking to us, like, that's something that we really unpack on our conversations versus the average, you know, financial professional, unfortunately, is probably there with like a set script to try and push a certain product and keep the big machine rolling. So yeah, that would be my answer there is Unfortunately, a lack of education on really some of these bigger picture concepts that we're taking time out to study versus they might just know and be able to specialize in 1 or 2 products.

Got it. Okay. Now we talked about self-development, self-improvement along the way here. So what would be one habit, Connor, that's helped you most as a business owner?

Yeah, it's a great one. I got to give a big shout out if anyone hasn't seen his content, Craig Ballantyne. He's got a book called The Perfect Week Formula. So that's what I referred to earlier where I ended up actually working for him a bit and learning a lot of his systems. So there's a lot that he teaches, but I would say it's like, you know, not to harp on The 5 AM Club or the wake up really early, but get up before other people and just have uninterrupted what he calls magic time. Set aside 60 or 90 minutes. I know that's probably gonna change for me with the baby on the way, so I might be, you know, naive here in this talk, but carve out some time. I know I've even talked Neil into it and he's got kids running around all over the place, but He's implemented this and the amount you can get done, especially if you do it early in the morning before the rest of the world is up and bugging you and you get those notifications coming in. Plan it out the night before and get to bed in good time so that you can then get up and get that most important work done. And then, his book, That Perfect Week Formula, if someone's struggling with that and arranging their day and their week, it's a great resource to kind of put some of that planning in place.

Nice. Love it. Okay. 2 more we're going to do here and then we'll close this thing out. So this one, we'll circle back to the coaching academy. We talked a lot about some things you took away, but what would you say if you could isolate, was there one thing or something that stood out at the coaching academy that immediately changed or updated or amplified your thinking?

Yeah, I'd have to revisit some of my pages of notes in there, but I think the plane ride was great. So I know you and Jayson, you weren't sitting beside each other, so maybe getting seats beside each other. That was an immediate impact for me for sure. But no, I think that it was, it was, it was that personal development stuff for me for sure. I know I wrote down a few quotes specifically. I think there was a John Maxwell one in there just about, you know, being a leader for yourself and for your family. And then that's gonna give you permission to lead for your clients. So I think that would be my biggest thing that I, you know, I've kind of gone back to a couple times here. And it starts with each of us on an individual level too, right? Someone in your family. I know Jason always talks You're going to be a hero to your family if you're the one that kind of explores this and implements this for your family. And it doesn't happen overnight, but someone has to, you know, kind of take that leap and, and do that. And, you know, it's on us as advisors to guide people, but each individual person listening to this could be that person for their family, be the one to kind of change the course of the trajectory for many years to come.

Excellent. Love it. Okay, last one here. We're going to rewind the tape. You're getting a chance to speak to a younger version of Connor. The version of Connor before he earned his first serious dollar, and you could impart one financial principle on him before that dollar landed in his hands, what would it be?

I think I'd have to try and shake him a bit and get him to be learning and reading these books when I probably wasn't very interested in doing that. I was more focused on sports or playing with friends. So, I don't know what age I am at this point, Richard, but if I can read, I'm trying to get 'em reading books or finding podcasts maybe earlier if that's the way I'm gonna consume it. But yeah, I think it would just be that, you know, growing up, like I mentioned, kind of in a small town, a little bit more of like a fixed mindset. And then, you know, you get kind of exposed to a growth mindset. And once you kind of get that bug of learning, investing in yourself, educating yourself, like I'm very grateful that it hasn't worn out. I'm always a little nervous that one day I'll wake up and I'll just like want to be comfortable again. But trying to push beyond a regular comfort zone, which again, there's so much around us trying to keep us comfortable in life and everything's rigged to do that with the phones that we now have and the social medias and all the smart people trying to keep us there. And kind of not to get again down a rabbit hole, but in the matrix, if you will. So, just kind of trying to help guide them that there's other ways and other pathways that you can explore. And the way you do that is by seeking out new information, finding books, Finding mentors, people that are living a life that you want to live. So I don't know what my goals and ambitions were at that point because I think with everyone it kind of takes a certain stage where they're ready to hear it. But that's what I try and do is at least have them surrounded and have those books where they could quickly pick something like this up or the Purple Book and start to learn and think a little differently.

Amazing. Connor, this was a ton of fun. Thanks for being on the program here today. Shared a lot of golden nuggets and a lot of great history about your time here and, and a lot of really exciting aspects about what the future holds, not just for you, your family, you and your wife and Baby on board, baby on the way. By the time this releases, maybe we'll be a lot closer to that date, which will be exciting. And you'll have this, of course, available for your podcast interviews to share with the newborn when they're here eventually. You'll just have it on the background, put them right to sleep. It'll be wonderful. No, very exciting to have this time with you. And I'm looking forward to having you back on. We'll talk more about business owners and some of the things that we're doing in that environment as we work with more of them. Yeah. in our organization. And for those of you, of course, listening online, thanks for your attention and for being an active participant. The best way to continue being an active participant is to do exactly what Conor said. Fulfill that important role of your ongoing education. That's what we're here. That's what we're here for. There's another podcast episode. There's another video that just popped up. You should just click right on through there and keep that education journey rolling. Thanks for being with us today.

Thanks, Richard.