87. Capital on Demand using The Infinite Banking Concept – Client Series – Curtis Arnold

You are listening to the Wealth Without Bay Street Podcast, a Canadian guide to building dependable wealth. Join your hosts, Richard Canfield and Jason Lowe as they unlock the secrets to creating financial peace of mind in an uncertain world. Discover the strategies and mindsets to a financial future that you can bank on land development as a profitable investment. Now, we all know you can make money with land and with real estate. Lots of people are doing it. We're going to talk to Curtis Arnold, a good friend of mine. He's been with us before and he's been practicing the concept of infinite banking since 2015. Now he's been a mortgage broker celebrating 17 years in that incredible industry. I've known this man for about 20 of those years and I've been had many discussions with him and his wife about the many different ways that we can do things with a piece of real estate. He's been around the real estate game for a long time. A lot of connections, a lot of friends, and intersecting points of real estate investment. So, Curtis, we're extremely excited to have you with us here today, both as an infinite banker in our community, as part of our client series, but to have you back to talk about some of the cool things that have been happening to you over the last year, year and a half, and how opportunity seems to be striking in the world of the Arnold family. So welcome. Thanks for being with us.

No, thanks, Richard. Thanks a bunch.

Now, what prompted a lot of this, Curtis, I'm going to cut you snox. I want to jump right into this, is that we, we, you and I have had a number of conversations of late and for some reason, because of the, you know, capitalization, I would venture to guess as a part of that, the causal effect here. You seem to have deals of high caliber crossing your desk over the last period of time. So walk us through a little bit about how that's been happening for you and how you've been seeing it show up and where do you think infinite banking is playing a role in some of that?

That's cool. That's a lot of questions at once. I'll see if I can tackle that. Yeah, I think just because you have your eyes open and you're open and you actually have the capital to invest, that's when the opportunity started to come around. I mean, 20 years ago, before I knew anything about infinite banking or even before I started investing in real estate, I didn't know an opportunity, an opportunity could have knocked me upside the head and I wouldn't have known it. So, yeah, these Days, things are things, things are flowing really well. We just, I'm just rubbing elbows with the right people like you two guys. And in the real estate industry, I'm rubbing elbows with a pretty good investor friend of mine who I joint ventured with now and a builder who seems pretty on top of it as far as the land development and making money in the inner city of Calgary is going. So just right place, right time and everything is aligning. The stars are aligning, they say. Quite happy with that.

Curious to know based on your journey with the process of becoming your own banker up to this point, if you could, you know, share, share with listeners and viewers and let yourself experience this emotion for a moment. But if you share with us how you feel about having capital on demand, on your terms to be able to take advantage of opportunities that track you down in an area that fascinates you and brings you energy, which in this case just happens to be real estate. And so what is that emotion for you? What, what do you feel?

Freedom. Because I don't need anyone's permission.

That's the greatest feeling right there is you don't need permission. And as a mortgage broker, I'm constantly getting permission for people to borrow money. Constantly. That's my job, is to get people approved for mortgages and that's. It's all permission based. Well, if the bank says your credit is good, your income is good, the property is good, okay, now we'll lend you the money. But with infinite banking and the process, that pool of capital just grows. And I don't need anybody's permission. So I'm ecstatic, I think would be the right word.

I'm full because of the industry I'm in. It's like I said, it's all permission based. I'm ecstatic because I can just take it out. I don't need permission.

It's so good to see yourself and so many clients who are practicing this process in that aspect of taking advantage of opportunity that's tracking you down and you know, and for all of our viewers and listeners, of course, what we're describing is the process becoming your own banker, the infinite banking concept. And in Curtis's example, he's got this growing aquarium of capital. Every single day the aquarium is getting taller and more capital is filling up the aquarium and it can't go down, it can't be taken away. There's no economic volatility that can impact it by reducing its value. There's no real estate cycle that can impact it by reducing any of its value. And so not only do you have capital on demand, on your terms, but you know that your entire aquarium keeps growing every day, no matter what.

Wow.

Yeah.

And it takes time, right? It takes time to capitalize.

Yeah. It takes time and patience. But, you know, good things come to those who wait.

Yeah, we've all heard that many times in our lives. Right. And it's. And it's the truth.

Yeah. And it's very applicable in this.

I'm glad that you identified, you know, market cycles, ej because you know, Curtis, you've, you've been around the real estate game now for a number of years and you've experienced some of those pain points that most real estate investors go through. And everything's going well and the market's hot. It's like, wow, you almost couldn't do any wrong. It's like, wow, you could just boom, close on a property and all of a sudden, you know, everything's. Everyone's happy, everyone's high fiving and bumping chest, everything's working out well. Then all of a sudden the market shifts. And what happens to rents? They go down. What happens to cash flow? It goes down. What happens to market values? Well, sometimes they go down. And it's like you've, you've seen that wave now over a period of time, and so you've actually been able to, you've gone through some of those experiences. I know I, I certainly have. I know Jason has. And so thinking it back to, you know, pre infinite banking and then, and then now moving to today, thinking about that cycle that you've kind of, you've ridden through those, some of those waves, what do you think would be different had. Had infinite banking been a part of your life during those, some of those previous cycle time frames?

Hmm. Well, I might not have been in those cycles, quite frankly. I mean, I hate to say it as a mortgage broker, but I might not have gotten so deep into real estate investing. I would not have gone that far. Like, I went really far. When I went into real estate investing, I was, I was in it whole hog. That was my only investment, pretty much outside, you know, a few dollars here and there of RSPs. But I was pretty much all, all in, all baked in one basket. And yeah, I'd never do that again. But as you know, and as we've been talking about, I'm not against real estate at all. I'm just, I just don't want to do just real estate. That was maybe not such a good thing to do. But I was in my 30s and you know, I didn't know any better. Now I know better. So just spreading things out a little bit and it lowers my risk anyways because, you know, some of my eggs are in different baskets now.

You know, what comes up for me, Curtis, is that, yeah, with these, you know, these real world implementers, you being one of them and doing it extremely well, and you know, people, people who are out there researching this process, they may be stumbling upon this particular episode. This may just happen to be an episode that's early in their journey of learning. And if you could, if you could go back now and speak to the Curtis who began implementing this back in 2015.

What would you say to the Curtis who was researching the process, knowing what you know now?

Well, to be real, I would say don't be so greedy.

Okay.

Plain and simple. I mean, I didn't have to buy 17 houses in such a short period of time and leverage them to the hilt. Had I done half of that much, I probably could have kept them all.

So I would just tell my younger self just to not be so greedy.

Take your time with it. Yeah, it's much like the implementation. I mean, Nelson said it best. He said this is not meant to be accomplished overnight. This is meant to be accomplished incrementally over a period of time. But the more, the more you see this process, I, I think we can all agree the more that you see this process, the more you see you didn't see.

Yeah, I had blind spots, I would put it that way. For sure. There was things I didn't see that I see now. I see them clearly now.

Isn't that good?

You know, it's. Sometimes a guy's his own worst enemy, you know.

It'S great.

Go ahead, Rich.

When we have our conversations, which, which we had one very recently, always one of the, some of the conversations I look most forward to. First of all, I always get to see your wonderful wife, which is great. And we were talking about, you're always trying to incorporate the ideas and the concepts of family banking and how, how might we, or what might we do? Different type questions around getting, you know, getting your, your kids involved and, and that sort of thing. So I really appreciate how you're really trying to integrate that and you're, you're looking at that long term planning. It's, it's not just planning for tomorrow or the next deal, it's how do I look at the next deal and how does that next deal show up in the thing that I want 20 years from now? So I really appreciate that about you, Curtis. I think a lot of people can learn value in that. And one thing that comes up for me in, in just thinking through some of our conversations, especially when we first kind of got down this process in the, in the beginning, you'd already had a life experience of dealing with, in insurance, insurance throughout your lifespan. And so the good news is you were always insured for the, you know, for the bulk of your life. You've, you've, you've recognized the value in insurance. Well, when you contrast, I guess what you, what you knew about and understood insurance to be in your own personal life prior to learning about, you know, reading Nelson's book, learning about infinite banking and making that change, what, what would you say to someone who's had, had a life experience around insurance and now they're looking at this and they're wondering, like, why is this different or how, how is this showing up differently for me?

Well, I think I would phrase it as a question. I would just ask them if they know of a way to use life insurance while they're living. So some sort of an engaging question. I think that's what I would ask. If someone was, you know, kind of in the box of the way most people think of life insurance, I would just ask them, do you know how to use life insurance when you're living to your benefit and to your family's benefit?

You certainly do.

A good idea now, thankfully.

Maybe give us a bit of, you know, take us on a bit of a drive through your journey with the process up to this point for the benefit of viewers and listeners who may be wondering, maybe trying to think ahead into the future to say, okay, if I was to begin this process now, what, what are the possibilities? What could that look like for me? So maybe take us on a bit of a drive through your journey with.

The process right towards how I first learned about it and what, what really convinced me to go down that road. Well, I, I guess there's a couple of points I'd like to make and one is just it took me six months at least and maybe even longer because I had known, I've known Richard for a long time, but it took at least six months for me to research this and figure out, okay, is this too good to be true or is it actually what Richard's saying it is, and it was not too good to be true. It really is everything he was saying it was. But even though I've known Richard for so long, it just, it wasn't just Richard's word I couldn't just take his word for it. I actually had to call an uncle in Regina who was a Sun Life rep forever. All his life.

Okay.

And he was kind of the one. The straw that broke the camel's back kind of. And he said, you know, I own a ton of that kind of life insurance.

Oh, really? And it just kind of struck me, Holy cow. I guess I better get on board then, because I had a. I had a ton of respect for Richard, but it just seemed too good to be true. So I had to get another. I had to get a second opinion.

That's interesting.

It was hard to get reliable second opinions. So it took a while. And then I had another point I was going to make. And the other point I was going to make was, I can't believe how big the pool has grown since it's been. Since 2015. Richard. That's when I first got involved.

Yeah, late, late. I think late, late 2015. Yeah. So we're, we're, we're rounding somewhat of an anniversary, probably for you. I don't know if it's a policy anniversary, but we're certainly rounding an anniversary of, of getting started.

Yeah, we're getting there. And I, and like I said, I, I'm surprised how big the pool of actual capital is already. And I, I have to kick. Kick myself every once in a while because, like, there's that much available. Wow.

Well, and our conversations are always. Now he's, you know, he's really channeling certain aspects of Nelson's book. And, and it's, you know, he's asking the question, how might. Or, or how can I go and increase the size of the system? So, yeah, often our conversations are flowing around, well, you know, can I get one on this person or this person? And, and recently in this year, you know, we started the conversation, Curtis, talking about, you know, joint ventures and partnership. Now Nelson would say, you guys know what a joint venture is, right? That's when one person, one party puts up the capital and the other party puts up the experience. And sometimes those people reverse roles. At the end of the, at the end of the experience, one guy ends up with a capital and the other.

Guy ends up with the experience.

Now, now, I'm sure if you're listening to this, you've maybe experienced a joint venture like that. I, I have. Curtis, I think you've probably had a circumstance like that, but you're in a wonderful partnership now because over that time, you've, you had this experience building up over your lifespan where now when things Come at you people, experiences, real estate deals, et cetera. You can see them through the lens of what's happened in your past to be able to make good decisions. Right. So it's helped you filter things a lot better. So when a deal comes your way, you know, this is, this is the right deal for me. This is in my wheelhouse. Yeah. And, and connecting with the right people. Now, we read you. We set up a policy this year with your, for your partnership in a corporation. You guys set up a corporation. So we initiated a buy sell arrangement that was really important to you at the very beginning of that relationship because you understood if we're going to go into business together, I'm protecting what we're putting into this business for my family, et cetera. We need to make sure that we're setting a foundation of what that business venture is going to be like. Now that does, you know, that wasn't set up as a, as an IBC style policy, but the option and the capacity is there to do that in the future. The key thing is, is that business now is protected. If something happens to you or something happens to your partner. You guys are in the middle of a large project. Boom, capital comes in, project can get finished, everyone's family can be taken care of. So I think it's really important that we isolate, maybe just even just share from your vantage point, why did it matter to you to have that conversation? Why did you want to make sure that was set up that way and what was going through your mind to as part of initiating that partnership?

Well, I don't know anybody personally that's actually had that happen where there's been a partnership where one of the partners have passed away. But I can imagine just through my own life's experience what would happen to the project itself because I'm dealing with fairly large numbers these days compared to the numbers I used to deal with. And yeah, I mean, we're partners because we're helping each other capitalize the project.

So if that capital isn't there anymore, well, the project can't be completed. Then my entire family net worth and income can be severely impacted in a negative way. And so could my partners. And I care about his family because I've known him for a long time, right. He's got two girls, I've got three daughters. It's like, okay, well, let's protect each other. And he was fully on board too. He realized what that was protecting. And I mean, we're both relatively healthy. We don't take a lot of Risks in life anyway, except for drought driving down the deerfoot once in a while. But you know, it's still not parachuting.

It's relatively safe, but we don't want to take any chances anyways so you.

Can have a profitable business and keep it all safe and protect everybody in the process. Sounds pretty simple to me.

Yeah. And it, what you were sharing earlier just in the way of, you know, opportunity, especially now and looking inside your, this growing pool of capital that you have, you know, ready access to, it reminds me, and I give credit to Dan Sullivan who said that your eyes only see and your ears only hear what your brain is looking for. And so when you get to that point where it's just like you said, it's so incredibly easy. It's just simple, it's easy, it's easy for me to access, you know, capital, then your brain is looking for these, these opportunities and there's no, there's no stress there because you know that literally at the drop of a dime, you can choose to, or choose not to take advantage of that opportunity to create and that creates more prosperity, which creates more capital, which creates more opportunity. And the process continues. And we've seen with real estate investors in particular over the years and Rich, this has occurred a number of times where we've seen real estate investors who, much like Curtis's experience, you know, we're just a little way too aggressive, over levered and nobody.

Sat down and really spoke to them about what would happen if the interest rate lever went the.

Other way.

What would happen if, you know, you had a much longer unexpected vacancy or you had a tenant who decided to renovate the property without your permission and the renovation didn't go so well and so on and so on and so more capital.

Swat, the SWAT team showed up at your. Yeah, it was on the news one day.

Exactly. Something like that. I mean, hearing stories of properties, you know, with, you know, that have burned down or blown up or, I mean, you just don't know. But being able to control the financing function puts you in a pretty peaceful, stress free position for the most part.

Right.

And to be thinking about continually expanding your, your system is I, I can speak on behalf of my own journey too. And Rich, probably the same. That's something that's just kind of on our minds all the time.

And absolutely, when you can, is when you should expand your system. But, oh, it's good, it's, it's good to catch up on your journey and see how things are going. So any exciting projects that you have underway that you want to share with. Of course, getting into the private particulars, but any exciting projects that you have on the go?

Yeah, we just had a property that we took possession of last Friday get listed this Friday. So it's live today. I think it was live last night. So actually in about six days we got the whole property cleaned up. It was in pretty rough shape. And our strategy wasn't to do the full renovation on this property because we got it at a, at a low enough price that we just decided, well, we won't do the renovations on this one. We'll just, we'll take a smaller profit and leave some money on the table for the next person.

So is the right approach.

Yeah, velocity and speed of capital. Now the funny thing is you, you, you have this deal that you have presently a six, six day turnaround to, to market and maybe it's 30 days, maybe 45 to close on the property. Pretty short term type of capital. But you know, circling back, let's, let's, let's go back a couple of months ago to the big, the big project you guys were working on, what you guys were up to and then maybe walk us through how, how you had this plan and then the plan materialized into a new opportunity and, and kind of bring you to the deal that you're in now. So I think there's a, as an interesting journey here, like the beginning of the year 2021. You had a, you did a great condo flip project. I think that's where things really started to take hold. Then it led to this next deal and now you're ready the deal you're in presently and you've already got the next one kind of lined up. So I think it'd be really cool for people to hear a little bit about that, the, the bouncing ball of that journey.

Yeah, sure. Well, I kind of look at them like dominoes. So chronologically you're right. If we backed up, there was a condo that I took possession of and I did do a full renovation on that one and flip it and sold it turned out really beautiful actually. So I made a little bit of profit on that. And so the next domino that fell was I had been sharing a little bit on social media the before and after pictures, like people do. I just thought it's kind of cool. And one of my friends noticed those pictures. Who's this real estate investor and my current JV partner noticed those pictures and he called me up and just said, hey, you want to do more of that? And, and long Story short, we did a bunch of due diligence looking at different ways of making money in real estate from knocking down a house and building two or knocking down a house and building three, or flipping that sort of thing. So in that part of the journey, my JV partner and I were, you know, aligning things. And we started a Corporation on April 6, I think was the actual incorporation date. But through all that discovery process, we met, we met a builder who's been basically an inner city builder. He would buy large lots and subdivide them two or three times, depending on the size of the lot and go ahead and either build for someone's forever home or partner with somebody and build on it as a spec build. So we had met, I think about five different builders. This guy really, really clicked with us. It's like this guy's onto something and he's built about 72 homes already in that area over the many years. My JV partner, McGill, actually knew someone that had used him as a builder three times.

And there was another person in his workplace that had also met him, knew of him and had built with him. And then I knew a realtor that actually knew him and did a deal with him. So there was a bunch of different people that had known him and his reputation was impeccable. So we really kind of globbed onto this, this particular builder as a source of knowledge and funds, not funds, but knowledge and source of deals. Because he was, I mean, you build 72 homes in the downtown core of Calgary, other realtors are going to be sending you things like crazy right here by my lot. Here by my lot. So he's, he's constantly sifting through the best lots. He just picks the best ones. And so one day he offered one up to us after we, we had been going back and forth in conversation for a while and he said, well, here's the deal. I've got 90ft of frontage in Kensington, which is a pretty nice part of Calgary, on one of the best streets in Kensington, he had already sold 30ft to and then the user, someone who wanted to build on that. So we had 60ft left.

And he offered us 30ft and the other 30ft to another investor. So we pulled her money, we did the subdivision.

Not sure exactly what order that goes in because the builder was taking care of all of that. But he knocked down the house, put the fence up. I got the building permit in place, got the development permit in place, had land titles, subdivide the two last 30 foot lots of so that we could now actually be on title of this lot and the other people could be on title of their lot. So once that was done, next thing I know, August long weekend comes up and someone offers to buy the place from us because they wanted to build.

They didn't want to wait and go through all the process that we already went through. So they made us an offer. We had fully intended on being in that offer or being in that deal until probably April, May or June next year. By the time the house would have been built and being able to be sold because it was a spec property, we didn't have a buyer at that time. So we were prepared to be in that property for about a year. But in August long weekend, the offer came in, the builder calls us and like, hey, you guys want to take this offer seriously? And the builder's like, I think we should.

And McGill and I are on the, on the phone, we're just doing a three way call and we're like, we better talk about that. And so yeah, we just, we looked at the offer and we got back to the realtor and she said, well, it's, you know, it's a good offer. We're, I already got them up a little bit, so we're not negotiating anymore. And so yeah, the three of us decided to take the offer. And August 13th, about 10 days later, they took possession of the property and we did a land deal. That's how we've been interested in land deals.

That's awesome.

So if you skip ahead, I wouldn't have this flip property for sale right now because I'd still have all my capital tied up in that one. So this is a bonus one for me.

And it's a free, it's almost like a freebie. It's a profitable freebie that got tossed in because you were able to move money, move capital at a level of speed quickly.

Exactly. So yeah, this is a, Whatever we make on this one is bonus as far as I'm concerned because we didn't have to put a lot of sweat equity into it. We just cleaned out the property, cleaned up the yard and that's it. It's onto the next person it's being listed.

That's great.

As soon as that one sells, the builder has another one lined up for us.

Ready to go. So love it. So that one's kind of a bonus deal too, because we wouldn't be into that one had we not sold early on that other lot. Right. Domino's fell nicely.

You've doubled up your deal. Opportunity through relationships, openness. You know what, what I really heard here, you talked about the domino effect, the taking on the first flip, taking action, taking action. Then posting some pictures created a conversation which was a gateway to opportunity, not just for you, but, but multiple wins. The builder gets to win. The person building that new home on that lot gets to win the, you know, your partner gets the win. Your family. Like, it's just, it's just everyone is holding each other up in this profitable entrepreneurial circumstance. Yeah, it's in real estate, but there's a lot more to just real estate here. It's about people working together to create a positive outcome where everybody wins. And I think that's glorious and it's also really cool because underneath all that in the, in the back end is a foundation of cash value that's helping to support funding mechanism for some and deals.

And he's got a place to store the windfalls.

Yeah.

It'S just.

Yeah, it's. Wow, that's really good. Thank you for sharing that. And congratulations too to you and your joint venture partner. And, you know, here's to many more successful deals that surely land on your lap, especially if the, you know, that developer knows that you've got ready access to capital. So if he has a choice to call someone who's got to take a bunch of time to go and gather up capital versus a couple of joint venture partners who combined can make a deal happen quick. Who do you, whose phone do you think is going to ring?

My JV partner and I talk about that often. How do we, how do we get on the top of that list all the time, you know?

Yeah, well enough.

Even further, A little bit. I mean, that very first little condo flip, that wouldn't have been possible unless I had started Infinite Banking in the first place because some of the capital came from there to do the renovations. A lot of it came from there to do the renovations. So really.

And that's what happened.

So good. Congratulations.

Now, you know, real quick, I know we'll, we'll probably be coming to the end of our time here, but one thing I think would be helpful for you to speak on, I wanted to touch on too, because I don't think we got it to capture this in our past conversation, but we talked a little bit about, you know, so we just had all the great good news story about what's going on. I just kind of want to flip back for a second about some of those market ups and downs that we had. And we talked about joint ventures and so you're in the middle of this great partnership now, but you've also been on the experiencing end of partnerships that haven't worked out as intended. But coincidentally, you know, in a past partnership you were able to initiate an insurance contract on a former partner. And now, although you don't, you know, maybe communicate or you have no, you know, business dealings with that person anymore, the actual deal that you were part of didn't go so well. But the way to resolve that deal was to make sure that you and your family were able to recover capital through the mechanism of insurance. Maybe speak to that a little bit and how, how that transpired and what, what was the thought process going into? Why would you want to initiate that.

In the first place? Yeah, so I guess the thought process goes back to families again. Much like when I started this new joint venture, we, we talked about how to protect each other at the riskiest times when you're in the middle of a project.

So with a previous joint venture partner several years ago, we had that conversation as well and we set up.

Life insurance policies and yeah, and yeah, the deal didn't go very well on the real estate side of things. So the only thing I retain of any value is that life insurance policy, to be quite honest. So at least I'll have that to pass on to my children because the intent of the real estate that we had purchased to hang on for a long time was supposed to pay for my two daughters educations. We would have sold it after, you know, roughly 15 years or something like that, or refinanced to pull out the equity. And that, that didn't happen. So that deal, that deal didn't go very. But again, at least I have something left of value there because we were proactive enough to put some policies in place and those didn't go away, they just keep growing.

That takeaway is so important, you are proactive enough to put it in place, which means the action had to happen. The thought, the desire, the will, the action and even so, the takeaway. I guess the teaching point that I'm hearing, Curtis, is that even when a deal or a circumstance goes sideways, when we take the necessary actions on the front end, we have a way to resolve that or to at least get ourselves covered, to recapture or recover that capital through another mechanism. But it can only happen if you take those steps at the beginning. So I think that's a really powerful lesson and I'm so grateful that you shared it with us and our listeners because I think so much can be learned from your Experience and it's the experiences that we share with others. It's through these stories, these real life stories where people recognize, oh, you know what, I know somebody else that, that happened to her. I had something almost like that happen to me. And it gives us a chance to have a minimum of pause, a moment of reflection, to think through what might I do differently when the next deal comes up.

Yeah, absolutely.

It'S, it's always a pleasure and you know, for, for viewers, for listeners who are tuning in, who are, you know, at the early stages of their research into this process and you know, maybe in that six month window, like what Curtis experienced when he was re researching the process as well, you may be seeking out opinions, second opinions again, much like Curtis did. And maybe Curtis could offer you a third opinion. So Curtis, what would you share with these folks who, who are researching the process and you know, they come across, there's so much stuff on the Internet, you, you can, you can literally find anything you want on the Internet. You can find the bad among the greatest of greats and it could be the best thing before sliced bread. And there's, there's just misinformation out there and you know, people talking about ibc, the infinite banking concept just being a gimmick and all they want to do is sell you dividend paying whole life insurance and it's all about the advisors who want to make big commission checks and all that noise. So what would you say to people who are doing their research and giving them a third opinion?

Yeah, well, it's tough to cut out the noise. And you're right Jason, it's, there is a lot of noise out there. I think you have to trust and verify but you have to be open minded enough to realize even people in your industry, Jason and Richard, there's some bias there. Yeah, just like my industry. I mean I'm a mortgage broker but some people in my industry will push people towards certain lenders for certain reasons but you have to be able to cut through the bias. But you know, just don't get your back up and be patient and talk to several people and, and see what's in it for them.

Try to see what is in, in it for them, but most importantly also focus on what's in it for you. Because if someone has your best interests in mind, trust your instincts, you'll be able to see who doesn't, who doesn't and you'll be able to trust their words, in my opinion.

Great advice, great advice. Thank you so much. Curtis.

Rich.

Well, Curtis, we want to close out with, with a quick question because, you know, every time that you go and make these real estate deals happen, you may not be flying through these land development projects with a cape on, but you are showing up as a superhero to someone's life because you're helping support these win win environments we talked about today, which was just a great, great conversation. So take us away, let us know. Who do you most want to be a hero to?

Well, I just want to be here with my daughters.

And I just want to make sure my girls, you know, are going to get an education and get an education from the right places.

There you have it.

I can't say more than that, Chris.

We appreciate you so much and we will continue to have you back again. You know, it's so good to archive these steps in your journey and your daughters will be able to look back on this will be on the Internets and the YouTubes in perpetuity. And so even for future generations that come after your daughters, and that's what we share with, with clients like you, who we are privileged to have as guests on our show, is that it's, it's being able to not only think long range as it relates to your implementation of the process, but it's how you transfer the information to the next generation while also encouraging them to think long range at the same time. And this digital platform that we have is it, there's unlimited shelf space in this digital library. So we, we, we will have you back and we appreciate you very much and for all of our viewers and listeners, make the rest of your week great. We are recording this right before the Canadian Thanksgiving holiday. So we wish you and yours a very, very happy Thanksgiving. There's so much to be grateful for and we're grateful for all of you viewers and listeners. So if you look over here, you're going to see a recommended playlist of additional content so that you can continue your journey of learning. Gentlemen, always a pleasure. Thank you both again. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours and make the rest of your week great.

Thank you very much.

Thanks for listening to the Wealth Without Bay street podcast where your wealth matters. Be sure to check out our social media channels for more great content. Hit subscribe on your favorite podcast podcast player and be sure to rate the show. We definitely appreciate it. And don't forget to share this episode with someone you care about. Join us on the next episode where we continue to uncover the financial tools, strategies and the mindsets that maximize your wealth.