Discover Your Money Personality With Dr. Patty Ann

Wouldn't it be a tremendous relief to never again have to lay in bed and worrying about how am I going to pay my bills, how am I going to put my kids through college, and will I ever be able to retire and lead a comfortable lifestyle? And wouldn't it be great to never again have to worry about how much money we have to spend and save, I mean, say, take from our savings and spend and give it to the IRS so we can just keep it all for ourselves? All legally, of course. And if you answered yes to any of these questions, rest assured that you are not alone. Because for most people, money is the number one worry. And to be more accurate, really, it's the number one stressor in many of our lives. And yet, haven't we all been told from the cradle to the grave that money is the root to all evil and that money cannot buy you happiness? Well, I am here today to tell you that that is an absolute myth. It's a bunch of baloney. Of course money can buy you happiness, and it can buy you happiness from the perspective that it gives you freedom to make choices and it gives you opportunities and opens up doors that would otherwise remain close to you. So of course money can buy you happiness because it gives you options and it takes away the number one worry and the number one stressor that most people have in their lives. And, and contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as your happiness maxes out at this arbitrary number that keeps changing. I think the most recent one is like $75,000 to $95,000. That is not true. So I am here to share with you that money can make you happy and it is not a dirty word. Now, by now you might be wondering what on creation is a relationship expert, a communication expert, and an emotional intelligence expert doing talking about money. Because when we think about relationships, we think about human relationships and human personalities, whether we're an introvert or an extrovert, yet most people don't really know. But we also have a relationship to money. And our relationship to money determines all. And I do mean all, with the understanding that there are very few absolutes in life. However, our relationship to money determines all our financial decisions. And our relationship to money is predicated upon our emotional connection to money. Because if you think about it, money is really just a commodity. That's all it is. But it's the emotion that we attach to money, it's the meaning that we give to money that determines our relationship to it. And if I haven't convinced you yet, let Me just give you a little tiny example. We all know some really smart people, like really smart people that make, if I may be honest, some really dumb decisions about money. And if they were making the decision about money based purely on logic and rationale, they wouldn't make a dumb decision. But the decisions are not made on logic and rationale. They're made based upon our emotional connection to money. If your relationship to money is based on emotions, then what determines your emotional connection to money? Because we will talk about this later, but you have a money personality. And your money personality creates your money story, which influences your ability to make, attract and retain wealth. And all of that comes from the emotional connection we have to money. So where does it come from? Our emotional connection to money is based upon our childhood experiences with money, whether we have it or don't have it, and how our parents spoke, or in many cases more accurately spoke about money. So what was going on inside our home with our parents, relationship to money and our overall childhood experience to money. And regardless of how much money you may or may not have come from, your emotional connection to money is emotion based. Your relationship is emotion based because plenty of people with money live their lives coming from a place of scarcity. And other people that have just enough money to get along might have a healthier relationship to money. And they don't feel poor or without because of the way that they approach money. At what age do you think your emotional relationship to money is solidified? It's formed by the age of 12. Now here's the problem with that. Most people don't even know that they have an emotional connection to money. They don't even know it. They might know that they're a spender or they're a saver, but they don't realize there's an emotion behind that. They think it's just the way they are. So there's that piece. So we need to have awareness as to what our money personality is. And here's the good news, that once we become aware of it, we're not a slave to it. We can influence it, we can change it. Like most other things in our life, our past influences our present and our future. But it doesn't define it. So let me illustrate with you my relationship to money based upon my childhood experience, and I'll give you the Reader's Digest version. I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York to a relatively large, traditional, lower, lower, lower blue collar family. My father worked 1, 2, 3 jobs while my mother stayed at home raising 5 kids and the dog.

We didn't have a lot of money, but we had a lot of love. Then one day our lives changed, dramatically changed when my father, at 42 years old, literally dropped dead of a heart attack in our kitchen. And if I close my eyes, I can, I can literally have to stop. I can literally feel as if it was yesterday with me and my sister, one of my sisters. I was one of five children.

Leaving my 36 year old mother widowed with five children, no money, no life insurance. And my mother was an only child, so she didn't have any family around to support her. She was eligible for every form of social welfare in the country. And in fact, all the social welfare programs were specifically designed for someone in my mother's situation. A young widow with young children. But she wouldn't take a dime and she went out and she got a job. And when we became older, we said, mom, why didn't you take food stamps? Like we would never use the word welfare. Why didn't you take food stamps? She goes, why? There was nothing wrong with me. There was no reason for me not to work. I was perfectly healthy. And all of us are like, we could have given you five reasons why you could have stayed home. But that wasn't her personality. I thought she never slept because she was gone for work by the time I got up and we were asleep in bed and she was still up. She would commute literally an hour and a half one way from our Brooklyn railroad flat. She'd have to get up, she'd walk 20 minutes to the train station, take the RR train into Manhattan. And then she worked at CBS on the international news desk. So she would have to walk across town down to, I think it was 57th and 12th Avenue, work a full day in the media. She was a young woman that desperately needed her job. And my mother could stop a clock until the day she died. She was gorgeous, she was smart, so there's all stories behind that. And she desperately needed her job. She worked like a dog. She'd come home and then she'd do her other job that every single parent on the planet knows. Clean up, figure out what's going on with the kids, pay the bills. And she bought herself a sewing machine after my father died. I don't know how she even did that. And she used to stay up until 2 o' clock in the morning sewing our clothes. If I close my eyes now, I can still hear that Singer sewing machine going because she didn't have money to buy our clothes. And her clothes were beautiful, beautiful but when you're a kid, you want what everybody else had, right? They had the Jordache on the butt or whatever. And as we got older, my mother would go to the stores and she would look at a dress and she'd say, ah, look at this hem, look at how this is made. This is terrible. How much do they want for that? Because she really became an expert seamstress. I was well into high school before I had a brand new coat. I always had the hand me downs. I was called Secondhand Rose. And then when I went to college and I was. We were the only kids on our block that went to college and we were just raised. You were going to college? I didn't realize how. What an anomaly. That was where we grew up. I went into my dorm room and I had my own desk, my very own desk for the first time in my life. And I would leave in the morning and do whatever I would do all day long and maybe I'd go away for the weekend with my boyfriend and I would come back and nobody touched my stuff. I thought I died and gotten to heaven because I'd never had that experience before. You didn't even have your own space. My mom was one of those that we absolutely were going to college and we absolutely were going to get an education. And not because there was anything wrong with what she did or all the hard working people that we lived around, but we wanted a better life. And even I knew at a young age there has got to be a better way. This left such an indelible impression upon me that I swore that I would be damned if I was ever going to allow myself to be in the situation that my mother was in, where I had to work like a dog, get paid peanuts. Who knows what kind of harassment she faced in the news media years ago because I was in such desperate need for money and I would never allow myself to be financially dependent on anybody. Hence an entrepreneur was born. And for me, because I didn't know any better, I just thought education was the way out, right? And I was serious about getting out. And again, don't get me wrong, we had plenty of love and we didn't even know we were poor really. But I sure as hell knew when my mom went to John's bargain store and if you got a hole in your sneaker, you literally put the cardboard in until she got paid again or whatever. I just knew there had to be a better way and I wanted better. So since I was really serious about that, that's when I went to school. And I got my two doctor, my two masters, my doctorate. Right. I was. I am. I have an insatiable appetite to learn to this day. And that was also a gift from my mother. I joked earlier about Jeopardy. She always watched watch Jeopardy. And she was always reading. And I got that from my mom as well. So my experience with money, my childhood experience not having money, I ended up going to nyu. I had several academic scholarships, and I also had athletic scholarships. And it was a very easy formula. Unlike our children. You take them to school. Can you feel yourself here? Do these kids dress like you? You know, like all this great comma stuff. We took out my acceptances, we laid them out on the kitchen table. We. We added up the scholarship money, the aid, the loans, the work study, the all in number to attend the school. And whoever gave me the most money won. It was a very easy formula. And so began my illustrious career at nyu. And what happened was.

So my emotional connection to money is it's very much freedom and control.

And I can be a bit of a saver, but I very much won't be the person that just holds on till tomorrow. Because when you lose a parent very young, you know full well tomorrow might not come. So I play that balancing act. Let's talk about the five different money personalities that we have. These are a composite. Okay. They're a little exaggerated, but that's to serve our purpose. And as I go through these, I want you to see if you can recognize a piece of yourself or a family member or your client so that now you can walk away feeling like, oh, what? Made absolutely no sense to me before. Total nonsense. Now I have a little bit of better understanding of either my client, of somebody in my family, and hopefully myself. All right, so this is the compulsive saver, and this is the person that hoards money. And what I want you to remember or think of is I'm pretty sure we all know the story of a Christmas. A Christmas Tale by Ebony by Charles Dickens. I think he wrote it in 1843. And the hoarder here was Ebenezer Scrooge. He was such a miser. Like, even if you look at his picture, you just feel like, ugly, right? So here's his childhood influence on being a compulsive saver. Apparently he had a very difficult, a very miserable childhood where if you read his story and you read the interpretation, you realize there's no mother in the picture. And we don't really know if she died at childbirth or if she left the dad but the point is, there was not that nurturing maternal figure. Not that guys can't be nurturing, but you know what I mean? And his father, being a man of his time, really didn't know what to do with him. So he literally, like, dropped him off at boarding school. And when you read his story, you see how he's alone in, like, a chair and in a room all by himself, and it's Christmas Eve, and apparently he has no friends. And true to the time, he was, I guess you used to get engaged, the families would arrange the marriages, and he was engaged to be married. And he decided because he didn't know how to relate to people, he didn't know how to have a relationship. He only knew how to work and how to make money. He broke off his engagement because he wanted to, what he says, focus on his career. And so you can see that his relationship to money is trying to fill another need, right? So his emotional attachment to money is. He looks at it, he's a very insecure person. And the way he looks at money is, the more I can save, the more I can hold on to, the more secure I will be. But of course, we know that security comes from within. So he could never feel secure enough. So he has to constantly keep saving and holding on. He cannot possibly bear the thought of losing his money. So this is a person who is pathologically cheap. Pathologically cheap, right. It's not the penny pincher, it's not the coupon person. Pathologically cheap. And he's completely focused on money, making it, saving it, accumulating it. It can never be enough. This is the guy who will have the money underneath his mattress. It will be in the freezer. Because he not only needs to know he has it, he needs to touch it, feel it, smell it. He cannot get enough of it. So. And in spite of his money, he thinks he will never have enough money. And he can't spend it, because if he spends it, he can see his bank account going down. And that just increases his anxiety because the money just doesn't represent the commodity that it is. It represents security, or lack thereof. Next one sort of kind of cracks me up, even though it's really not funny. The compulsive shopper. And I've named her Shopaholic Sally. Now I know everybody knows who she is. This is overspending on steroids. It's absolutely out of control. She is a compulsive buyer, a compulsive spender, and her childhood influence. This is a person and of, excuse me, of course it can also be a man. This is a person and you can all relate to this. That growing up, if something would happen and they were upset, they were traumatized, they were sad, they lost the game, they got a failing grade, their friend said something, mean, something just didn't go their way and the emotion didn't feel good. The parent would say, come on, I'll take you to the store and I'll buy you a toy. But this wasn't just once in a while, this was all the time. This was a person that doesn't know how to appropriately handle and manage uncomfortable emotions. They don't understand how to handle the stressors, the anxiety, the worries of life. And Lord knows we get them every day. What happens is, is this person in the process of making the purchase? And this, I'm making this differentiation for a reason. In the actual process of making the purchase, taking the credit card, swiping it, taking the cash, spending it, putting it out there, they get an immediate, immediate relief from their uncomfortable feeling. Why? Because they get a shot of dopamine, right? But that shot only lasts so long. So by the time you get home from the store or by the time the Amazon package gets delivered, that dopamine is no longer there. And then the next life discomfort, we shall say, presents itself. And so what do you need? The only way you, you know, the only elixir for discomfort is to shop and to spend. And this help, this helps explain why you will go into a compulsive spender closet and they have clothes with the tag still on them, they have shoes that have never been worn. These are guys that have more cars than they could ever drive in a day. This buying, it's irresistible. They cannot help themselves even if they are consciously cognizant of the fact that it will cause negative financial ramifications so they can go into debt. They will buy things when they have no money to spend. They buy things that bring them no joy, they buy things that go unused. And their emotional profile is that they spend when they feel anxious, stressed, worried. And as you can imagine, they have very low self esteem because they're dealing with life from the outside.

And the external stuff is controlling their emotions as opposed to from the inside. And so when they spend money, they get immediate gratification at any uncomfortable feelings. Their insecurity and their emotions of depression, anxiety, worry, low self esteem becomes addressed by the spending. It's the cure. But it's a Trojan horse, if you will. All right, so that's the Second type of shopper. This is a picture of Leonardo DiCaprio that played the wolf of Wall Street. Jordan Belfort. This is the compulsive moneymaker. So if you didn't watch the movie, then you know who Madoff is. Compulsive money maker. This is the person where greed is good. Money is. Is their God. It is an. It is. If there's something to be beyond a pathology and an obsession, it is these people. It is an intense pathological desire for making money. And enough is never enough. They will make money at all costs. Their relationships are usually transactional. Their marriages are usually one of many, because it's all about the money. And they will. What differentiates them from the other personalities I mentioned is that they will make a fortune during the daytime, but they will also spend a fortune at night. Because for this person, their sense of self is based on not just making money, but just as important. It is important for the compulsive money maker to. To have you know that they make all this money and to have you know how successful they are. So their sense of self worth is based upon what I call the external validation, the applause of the crowd. So here's how this plays out. Let's say you go out to dinner to celebrate a graduation of somebody or.

Any accomplishment, a birthday, an anniversary. And a group of people go out. The compulsive money maker, when the check comes, will make it a point to say to the. Over here, over here, I'll take it. And they announce, they grandstand that they are paying for the meal, right? Which is very different than the person that walks into the celebration or goes to the bathroom in the middle of a meal, of the meal and says to the waiter, here's my credit card, right? I mean, I think we've all experienced both. The point about the compulsive moneymaker is they now take whatever the occasion is that's being celebrated. It's no longer about the people that are having the celebration, it's about them. And it all turns to them. And it can seem quite magnanimous, right? But if you think about it now, oh, what a good guy. Oh, he bought the meal. Oh, my gosh, what a good guy. And it takes the spotlight off of other people. So it's so important for the compulsive money maker to have, you know, how successful they are. And emotionally, the only way they can feel good about themselves is to have their peers know how much money they make. They're high risk takers, the high reward, right? They can't resist the reward. And if they lose the money, they're in a bizarre way, they're cool with that because they know that they will create or they will find another opportunity. So it can almost be the person that, all right, this deal's not good. I'll go to the next deal and I'll make a killing there. One of the reasons why this is so pathological is it's not even though they'll make the money. And this is why I use Madoff as the example and also the character in the Wolf of Wall Street. These people will destroy anyone that gets in their way. It is so sad. They will. You know the expression, they would kill their mother for a dime. They will destroy you. Like, not just make you go away. They will destroy you as they build their little golden empire. Okay? And I'm sure. Think about. Write down. Do you know people like this? This is very, very pathological. Like, you know, hedge fund guys, maybe half of Wall street, just saying, let's go to the fourth money personality. This one's not as exciting. This is probably my least favorite. And believe it or not, this person exists. This is the person that's indifferent to money. They have a laissez faire Laura attitude. It is what it is. And this is how this person shows up. They are blissfully ignorant of money. They're like an ostrich with their head in the sand. So they will go to the store, they will buy something. They won't even look at the price tag. It could be expensive, it could be cheap, irrelevant to them. They're naive to a fault where they almost feel like, you know, money really shouldn't be a consideration in life. So to try to get this person to create a budget is like waiting for Godot. Good luck to you. The thought of a budget is like, oh, why should we have to worry about money? It should be fine. And in a lot of ways, there's a lot of great things about this. However.

When life throws you a curveball and you get ill or you get divorced, you lose your job, you can go into financial ruin because you really just didn't have an understanding of what your finances look like. Now, a lot of guys will tell me, yes, I have a wife like that, but this is like, to the extreme, being indifferent to money. So I called her laissez faire Laura. The emotion is that there are unrealistically idealistic. And usually the childhood experience for somebody like this is that money wasn't really an issue. Like, things just appeared not necessarily spoiled but there wasn't that financial literacy conversation in the house. So things would just appear. You didn't know what they cost, it didn't matter, nobody talked about it. You pretty much always had what you needed. And so you internalize that. Money's not a big deal because you were never really taught it. So let's go to the fifth money personality we all know. The worrier. William the worrier. This is the person that regardless of how much money they have, they are constantly worried that they are going to lose it at any moment. So they get a promotion, they get a raise, right after obsessing and worrying, they go out and they buy a new car and they drive it home and they come into the house and they tell their spouse, I know I'm going to lose my job tomorrow. I just know it. Right? Just that we all know people that are like that. They have a lack of confidence in themselves. That shows up as a lack of confidence in their ability to make money. In spite of the fact that that they may be successful making money. They're consistently obsessing over the worst case scenario of what will happen if you run out of money. So they relate to money from a place of scarcity, even if they have it. So there's a fear. They relate to money by being fearful that they're going to run out of it. And the fear shows up more as a worry. It's almost like a neurotic. And if you spend enough time around these people, they will drive you crazy with how much they're worrying about the money they in fact have. But they know they're going to lose it someday in some way. Yes, it's smart to be aware of what could happen and to prepare for the future. But these people allow the anxiety and the worry to eat away at the happiness that they could have from having the money so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor. And usually people like this had some kind of childhood experience where perhaps their lifestyle changed overnight, where perhaps their parents got divorced. And if the dad was the breadwinner left and the mom had nothing or had to go to work, or they lost the home, or they went into bankruptcy, or somebody was a gambler and they lost everything overnight. So. So the worry runs very deep. And there's a fear attached to the money even when they have it. So we have the compulsive saver who's the hoarder, and we talk. This is the person that is obsessed with making money and holding onto it. They can't let go of it. The second one is the compulsive spender. This is shopaholic Sally, and she uses purchasing items and spending money as an elixir for dealing with any uncomfortable feeling that comes up, an uncomfortable situation. She sees buying and purchasing as the cure, which, of course, we know doesn't work at all. The third personality is the compulsive money maker, personified in the character of Ebenezer Scrooge from A Christmas Carol and more modern times, a maid off. You know, people that have these Ponzi schemes that will care less about stealing or taking money from anybody because they're obsessed with making it. It's their God. They live it, they breathe it, they eat it. All their relationships are transactional and they are very pathological. And there's something that really went awry in their childhood, and I don't even know what is, but I really believe it's a pathology.

The fourth money personality is the indifference to money, the laissez faire. They almost wish, like, we could live by Kumbaya and just trade shells to make purchases. And in some ways, it's sweetly naive, but when life throws you a curveball, you're very vulnerable.

For bankruptcy and for financial ruin. And then the fourth money personality is the warrior, represented by William the Warrior. And this is the person that even when they have money, even when they're successful, even when everyone around them knows they have a bright future, they cannot take any pleasure in it because they are afraid that they will lose it one day. So they're always worried about not having what they already have. So tomorrow, financial ruin is around the corner, no matter what you. And actually, I didn't say this earlier. Many people that grew up in the Depression have this. Like, at one point, though, they had nothing right. And then they. As a child, but then they became successful. But because of their childhood experience and because of what they heard their parents talk about and perhaps a hungry stomach. If you go to bed hungry often enough, that's something that's hard to shake. It's hard for them to let go of that worry. So there's a fear attached to that. We're going to talk about your money story because we all have our own money story and we needed to talk about our money personality first because it's our money personality that influences our money. It is our money story that determines our income and it determines our ability to attract and retain wealth. So this is really going to be fun. So your money story is your own personal, unique narrative about money. It consists of your beliefs, your Thoughts and your feelings about money. It is generational and culturally based and it determines your ability to attract and create wealth. We have stories that are told to us from generation to generation about everything. Money is no different. In your family it might be money is the root to all evil or oh my God, marry a rich guy. As if that means they're a good guy. All it means is that they're a rich guy. I want you to look at this picture and I want you to write down one word that describes how you feel about money. And try not to filter it. The first thing that comes to mind, there's a spectrum of how we feel about money, right? And it has nothing to do with the money itself. It has to do with what we attach to the money. Why do you think you feel this way? You don't have to know and don't overthink it, but why do you think you feel this way? So now the next question is, what were you told about money as a child? So what did you experience as a child because you had money? And what did you experience as? Or what did you experience as a child because you didn't have money? So the next question I'd like you to answer. What has been the running theme of your life, in your life for the past few years as it relates to your finances? So I just took you from your past and now I have you more present. The next question is for your money story. Your personal money story is do you have a history of making good financial decisions? And if not, why not? So the next question is, what are your money values? Who or what influence these money values? I always love the answer to these questions. Have you shared your values about money to your children and your clients? I speak with clients a lot about this. Very wealthy clients. They're like, if you want to kill your kids ambition, let's let them know they're inheriting a ton of money when they're young. So that's one thing I'll say. The other thing is if you're wealthy or if you have means, you have to make it very clear to your children that you, the parents are wealthy, have the means. They don't. They get to partake in the pleasure that that brings, but they need to make theirs. And that's a whole other different conversation. People don't do that. And that explains why it takes three generations for a family business to die. Right? The grandmother worked really hard in the store, the parents of the children work really hard, and then the grandchildren just always get the toy when it comes out, they have no connection between the hard work and the money. And then the next question is, do you hesitate or find it hard to spend money sometimes? Even though we think we have a sense of our relationship to money on some level, when you get the question asked this way, you're like, oh, wait, I'm not sure. Let me think about that. The next question on the next slide is, are you impulsive with money? Now, what I want you to do is I want you to take a look at your answers because they're the foundation for your money story. And there might be some things we want to keep and there might be some things we want to change, but awareness is always the first step towards changing. You've created the foundation for your money story. And what part of your money story would you like to rewrite? As I said earlier, our past influences our present. It doesn't define it. So there's no time like today to make the change. And there's no value in beating ourselves up over something that we weren't even aware of in the past. It's an absolute waste of your energy. So if the time is now, take advantage. There's nothing to be gained from beating yourself up in the past.

To add to what you just said, you and I both know Dan Sullivan. He talks about something that aligns perfectly with what you just said. Now, Dan Sullivan is the co founder of Strategic Coach. He's been coaching entrepreneurs the past 47, going on 48 years. And Dan says that you should always be creating a future that's bigger than your past. So always create a future that's bigger than your past. And the good thing about building that future that's bigger than your past is that you get to decide what to leave behind and what to take with you. And if you think of your past, your present and your future, you own all three. And so be very careful what you feed each one of them from. Jim. So Jim says, being self employed most of my life, I looked at money as a tool, investing and learning always about how to make money work. Where does that put us?

If you notice, I really took a pathological approach to the money personalities. I really didn't put a healthy one in there.

There's really no place, if you will, because money is a tool. I would say it's a composite though of the spender and if I know entrepreneurs, a little bit of the worrier, but not, but not really because we know we can. Like, we know if we lose it, we'll make it right.

Jason and we have a question here from June. So June, her statement before the question reads, I feel very uncomfortable when I have to spend money. I'm afraid of losing it. I even hate shopping. I feel that if I had more money, this would not be so. Question from the above scenario, is this so? Or will I continue to be apprehensive about spending no matter how much money I have?

Okay, yes, you can change this because remember, it is your emotional connection to money and what it represents to you that defines your money story and your money personality. So it's irrelevant as to how much money you have as to whether you'll spend it or save it. So if I knew a little bit more, if you can feel a little bit better about yourself and trust yourself and know that this money you worked hard for and you deserve to enjoy it, whatever capacity that is. It's a beautiful car, if it's a beautiful dress, if you like to travel, enjoy it because it's. It's your life. Let's have fun. Last I look, this isn't a dress rehearsal, but don't quote me, I don't know anything.

John asks, how does one utilize this information with respect to IBC, which Dr. Pattyn that's a specialized process that we work with our clients on. It's the infinite banking concept process of becoming your own banker. So John, that's a really good question and would encourage you to connect with your coach and to have an expanded discussion and do that while it is fresh. Take and for everyone in attendance as you are thinking through your insights that have come up for you this evening, write those insights down, capture them. There is something to be said about how your brain is connected to your hand that you write with. And so make sure you get pen to paper and capture those insights and talk to your coach.

What I would suggest you do so you don't have to feel like you have to have all this information to do what you want to do. Just if nothing else, when you're helping people become their own banker, just make it very clear to them that the money is just a commodity. Right. But that their decisions will be based on their emotions attached to it. Right. And they're. And. And it's more about their. That. Right. And what relationship they want to create for money in the future with bank. The bank as the tool, as a mechanism. Again, it helps explain. It explains why like really smart people that make money, you know, you have to pay taxes at the end of the year and they don't save money for taxes. They're smart, they know that, they intellectually know that. But that's an emotional decision.

And then the other thing, the man Jim, that asked me about the entrepreneurs and the tool, what I would suggest he do for himself is to look at his money, look at his relationship to money from a personal perspective, not as an entrepreneur, not as a business person. So how does he spend his money in his family, with his partner, with his children. And that will give him a different understanding that than perhaps his business approach. Although as I say that wherever you go, there you are. It just might give him some more information.

Julia asks, do you have a personality outline of a healthy money personality?

Do I.

I have it in my head. I don't have it written down.

And this came from a lot of my work with teaching women to negotiate because we're like so underpaid. It really pisses me off, off the top of my head. Someone that understands money is a tool. It's not the be all and end all. And it's a way to enjoy life because you've earned it and to bring joy to the people that you love and the communities that you care about.

As one dimensional aspect, but not all, right? Because giving of your time is perhaps more valuable than giving of your money. Because you can make money, you can lose money, but we just spent an hour and a half together. None of us are getting that time back. So time is much more finite, right? Whereas to me money is like, yeah, you make it, you break it kind of thing. So, you know, you look at money as a tool and don't be embarrassed to say it's important to you as long as it's not the only thing that's important to you.

Taran asks, would it be fair to say that more money doesn't change you, but it makes you more of who you are?

And the answer to that is unequivocally it depends upon who you are before you had the money. Some people it will change because the money represents security, power, self esteem, right? It's external, it's fleeting. So then it will change you because you had you think that you're better because you have more money, but if you're more grounded, it won't change you in that way to that extent, right? You might get a bigger house, maybe take a nicer vacation, but at your core, at your heart, you are who you are. Now I know people have mixed feelings about Warren Buffett and I'm not a financial planner, but. And I know there's down negatives to him, but he does Own. Still own his three bedroom ranch house in Omaha, Nebraska.

Yeah.

Right. And if you see the guy, I don't think he's running around with Armani suits. Right. So there's a part of him that's still grounded, actually. Dan Sullivan said, for all as successful he is as he says, I still have the same values as a kid from Ohio. And if you ever met Dan and talked to him, you would know. Absolutely true. Yeah.

Caroline asks, given the current world around us, the attitude to practice toward being economically successful is contrary to the present environment. What can we do to deal with the times when the outside crazy world gets to us?

It is very dangerous. And I would suggest that we should never again. Few absolutes and life. Never allow the direction of the wind to determine where we're going.

Or to define who they. Who we are. Because fads come and go. Right.

You know, growing up, I can hear my mother say, well, I don't care what Doris Jensen lets her kids do. You can go over there and live with them. This is my house, this is my rules. So you have to be secure in who you are. And it can shift. And it's okay if somebody's a little flashy.

A little. Right. That's okay. It's very dangerous, though, to let the external world tell us what's right or what's wrong. Because something is right today and in fashion today, and then tomorrow it's not.

I find myself aggressively investing money to get out ahead and not depend on a job. I think this comes from lost time in my 20s because I was not taught about money. I'm in my mid-30s now, but I'm worried that once I hit my goal, these worries will not go away. Do you find people getting over this as time goes on? Any tips to deal with this?

Okay, so that is like, that's when I'm coaching people. That comes up all the time.

Gosh, I need to know some more. But if you are trying to make money for the purpose of curing an emotional need, it won't work. The happiness is an inside job. So there's so many variables. I understand in the 20s, maybe it wasn't there.

I'm not sure what that was about. So in the 30s now you're being aggressive, which is good because you're in your 30s, you're aggressive. Right. You have time to lose it and make more. More. And then when you reach your goal, human nature being what it is, we probably will have another goal. And that's good. But you want to make sure you're not chasing that elusive. That will never. It will never be good enough. Right?

So I guess it depends upon why the chase.

What an incredible evening. And I do want to. If I may just speak on behalf of all attendees. We are incredibly grateful for you being so generous with your time, with your wisdom. And the comments speak for themselves. You know, the group thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed being with you this evening. And I just want to express my heartfelt gratitude to you on behalf of my entire team at Ascendant and everyone in attendance. Dr. Patty Ann, ladies and gentlemen. What an amazing, amazing presentation. Thank you.