Infinite Banking in Canada is a Lifestyle, Not a Financial Plan

Your implementation as well. David, through your journey, you're starting to see children, grandchildren that Nelson had taken policies out on. They're growing, they're growing, many of whom have gone on to college and who are, you know, well into their professional lives.

Yeah.

And so the impact that this has is so much more than just a shallow conversation about a product. It's just once you grasp it, it's like you won't even ever believe that you even wasted any thinking on should I purchase a whole life contract or should I put my money in Bitcoin? Should I buy a whole life contract or should I put my money into the stock market or that mutual fund? You're missing the point entirely. You should become your own banker first. And then from that very place, you can set about financing all those things in your life. It's all about how. It's the how. Good evening, Canada. Welcome to Infinite Banking is a Lifestyle, not a Financial plan. David Stearns is the son in law of our mentor, the late R. Nelson Nash, the developer, the pioneer of the process of becoming your own banker, the infinite banking concept. And David has since taken on the responsibility many years ago of being the president of Infinite Banking Concepts, as well as a director and I would say co founder of the Nelson Nash Institute. And we're going to be talking about so many things this evening related to David's journey with this process. David spent more time with Nelson, I believe, than anyone as it relates to becoming your own banker, the infinite banking concept. I want to share with you just what an incredible honor it is to have David join us to be generous with his time and I'd like to welcome him. Hailing from Birmingham, Alabama, David Stearns. We're glad to have you.

Thank you, Jason. I wouldn't miss it for the world.

And I'll share with folks how David and I were first acquainted. So if I can take you back for a moment. So we walk in to this Sheraton convention facility in Birmingham, Alabama. It's February 2012 and we had been interacting with David and the moment we showed up, shook hands, let him know who we were. We were from Canada. He was just so gracious and hospitable and welcoming to us. And Nelson was there as well because Nelson would be at every annual Infinite Banking think tank conference. And we just had a little bit of small talk with Nelson and Nelson said, oh, so you all are from Canada? And we said, yeah. And he said, I'm surprised you all can speak American.

And so that was, you know, the very first, the Very first interaction that we had and we've become dear friends and colleagues since. And I'm just so grateful to have you here. And, you know, David has really taken the reins of the Nelson Ash Institute and making sure that the message. Because Nelson shared, sadly shortly before he passed, that he wanted people to remember that this is all about the message, not the man. And Nelson always put the message before himself. And that was just a sharp example of his humility and his perfect integrity. And so, David, our guests are in for a real treat this evening. And I thought a great way to start would be to invite you to share.

What comes up for you in all this time, your journey with the infinite banking concept. What do you think would be impactful to share with people who are either seeing this for the first time or maybe who have had a system of policies for a number of years?

Let's clarify my view of ibc, okay? For your audience who does not know me, I'm not an insurance agent, I'm not licensed, I'm not contracted. And that was intentional. Nelson and I agreed upon that way back when. So I could focus on what I'm doing now, not on chasing commission dollars. Okay? So. And that's kind of morphed me to not just the business side, but also the way I think, okay. And the lifestyle thing that you suggested earlier, that, you know, we've talked about that for a while now, you know, it's like being a Christian. You focus on things differently, you see things differently, the priorities in your life are different, okay? And so if I talk about ibc, if I think about ibc, when I'm riding my bicycle with my group in the morning at 5:30 in the morning and they're talking about the stock market, I just trying to kind of wake up and look at it a little bit differently, okay? It's not about, you know, chasing a rate of return. It's about warehousing your wealth uninterrupted, compounding, and using that money now. And so every day, everything I do is, I'm looking at that way. And unfortunately, it's stressful. I really do feel sorry for a lot of people who don't understand what we're talking about or don't want to take the time or make the effort to listen to what this is all about, okay? It's just ridiculously simple. But it's hard work though. We know that. You can't just. It's not reaching for the golden ring, it's setting up a system, okay. And then committing to it. And painfully addressing what you have to address to get to where you need to be. And then once you. Once it gets past a certain point of capitalization, then it becomes relatively easy to manage your funding. But long story short, it's a mindset, okay? Just like anything else. You have to practice. You have to practice. You have to practice, practice, practice. You have to be accountable to somebody. That's why practitioners are so important. Because your practitioner is not your life insurance agent. Your practitioner is your IDC coach and mentor. That's right. Okay. So that is critically important.

That's kind of why we did the nni, the institute, to try to create those individuals, to guide the public and make them accountable. Because IBC empowers the client, the customer, like no other financial tool that I know of.

They need that coaching.

They sure do. And that is one of many reasons why we're so proud of our insistence upon, you know, all of our teammates who are coaching clients through this process. They must be authorized. With the Nelson Nash Institute in good standing, and we stand alongside a pretty large growing community of practitioners across North America, and proudly so, because the impact that Nelson is having still to this day. And we've got some great news to share about an even more lasting impact, thanks to Nelson Ash Institute. Tom, we're going to share something very special. So you're going to want to stick around on this webinar because we're going to reveal something that's available to you that was previously available in a different format, but it's exciting news, so I'll save that for a little bit later. But what I did want to say is I was just speaking with an existing client prior to this webinar and she had shared, she said, you know, I've been consuming a lot of the podcast content, the YouTube content that that we've been putting out there. And she said, I'm really beginning to grasp the essence of the message. It took time. It wasn't something that just happened overnight. Because, David, you can attest to this when people are purchasing something, it's just very transactional. Hey, I want to buy a life insurance policy in exchange for the premium. I have the policy. The transaction is complete. Thank you very much. And away we go. And one of the mutual, Canada's largest mutual life carriers said to us just recently, they said, you know, normally in this business, we see a policy being settled, and then we don't hear from the policy owner ever again until there's a death claim. But you've got quarterly client coaching. You're describing a process they're accessing and repaying policy loans and so on that the question from the insurance company was why aren't we doing more of this? And I thought, my goodness, it's taken almost 14 years for that language to come from the life insurance company. They're finally starting to see it. And did you experience something similar in the United States as this?

Oh, exactly. I mean poor Nelson. When he was a Guardian agent, he wrote the book in 2000 he was a Guardian agent, which is a big US mutual. When he rewrote the book solely illustrations, the book were generated from Guardian actual information. But anyway, they invited him. He was a top of the table producer and so they invited him to New York City to Guardian headquarters and they sat him down and said, why are you so successful? And so he didn't call it Infinite banking concept because I teach my clients how to use these policies and you know, the whole nine yards. And they said, well, let's capture this on tape. And so he spent a couple days up there doing, going through a Q and A thing and he said it turned into a legal thing where they had the first, they had, you know, the junior attorney show up and then the senior guy came in. It was all about, you know, compliance and this and that and this and that and this. And he was so frustrated, so nothing came out of that. So he spent a lot of time trying to have the company understand exactly the point that you just made. Because when the companies, they did not like IBC because they didn't, they didn't have the workforce at the home offices to manage the clients needs. Right. Okay. So some, so a lot of them have modernized now with, with the advent of a computer quote unquote. But, but still it's, they are coming around finally we're seeing that in the States. In fact, one of the, one of the major mutuals that we're associ down here, they've actually. One of our guys actually was on the new product development team and he actually took the lead on developing a product that was an IBC centric product. Okay. And they, and it's like hallelujah.

Yeah.

You know, so.

Absolutely. And if you think, you know of all the time that you spent with Nelson and you were with him literally every single day, one thing that we all know about Nelson is that he was remarkably consistent in his delivery of the message and how he, how he educated, you know, the general public and primarily through his seminars, you know that he would travel all across the country, Canada included, and he would host these seminars and you could literally, you could just close your eyes and just know exactly what was coming up, when it was coming up. If you saw it often enough and over that period of time, would you agree? Because we share with people all the time what Nelson told us, which is the more you see infinite banking concepts, the more you'll see you didn't see. Is that still true for you today?

It is, because a little 92 page book that he put together, first of all, that was his notes for a seminar, that book. He didn't sit down and write a book. He did seminars and he went through a learning process himself. Then he published the book from that. But you're exactly right. Every day, every week I keep a copy right here and I'm always going through, people ask me questions all the time and I go, I don't remember where I heard that in the book. And so I got to go back and find it. And all of a sudden it all comes screaming back. But you know, the analogy is, you know, you put it, you put a dime on a table and the dime represents the knowledge you have and the perimeter represents everything you don't know. Okay? And so you increase your knowledge level. With IBCs, now you're up to a quarter size. Well, the quarter's bigger than the dime, but also the printer is also bigger. So there's more you don't know. And the analogy there for practitioners, if they are not fully vested in IBC personally, because it, you know, understanding, you know, how to design a policy and walk through policy loans and all that stuff like that is fantastic and it's absolutely necessary. But if you're not using it yourself, there's nuances from a personal perspective that, you know, the kind of little scary little pain moments you have that are not translated to the customer, the client, the practitioner is fully vested doing it.

Themselves also, you know, so I agree with you wholeheartedly. And there's, there's a lot of noise, much like anything, right? If you think of any, any type of product or any type of service out there, you don't have to travel very far to find the noise. And the noise typically emanates from individuals or communities that, that are not fully vested. And so the, the interpretation of the infinite banking concept starts and stops at a product and all the features in the anatomy of a product versus the most important element, the foundation, the process itself. So if you think of some examples of your implementation of the process, right, We've talked about the home renovation, we've Talked about vehicles within the family and how all that flows through.

What could you share as maybe some of your utilization of the process and you know, the impact that that's had on your family, not only now, but the impact that it's going to have later in life.

Well, you know, like you said, we've been to a bank for 20 years. You know, I'm living in a million and a half dollar house here that's totally paid for through policy loans. And guess what? My cash render value is higher now than it was before. My son just move of Birmingham. And guess who's financing his mortgage? He's doing a 20% down and we're doing it. We're doing a private mortgage. We're going to do a promissory note. We're going to, we're going to file it with a probate judge and get it, you know, everything squared away so we can deduct interest if he, if he chooses to do so. But I mean that. And that's, that's the biggest thing we've ever done at a one stop shop. Okay? Doing that. When I say we finance the house we're living in now, that was like a construction loan scenario. Every two weeks a $20,000 policy loan came out, went to the contractor, you know, then we, then we chipped away and paid it off over the course of, you know, X number of years. But this, you know, this, this promissory note for my son is going to be, you know, a pretty substantial amount of money at one time. Okay. And we're doing that, number one, to keep, you know, obviously I'm not trying to make any money on my family. We're trying to keep the money in the family is what we're trying to do. And that's the whole key. Nielsen calls it becoming your own banker. Think like a banker, be a banker. Don't chase interest rates.

Banks make money on loans, make money with debt management. Debt is their asset. It's just the same thing with all these family members that are doing this. You know, it's good to incur debt if you own it. And that's one of the hardest things to get the general public to understand. So.

Well, you made a few very key points there about the importance of keeping the money in the family. Because recognizing that everyone in attendance has, has a varying degree of understanding of this concept. Some people, it's their very first exposure. And the book that we're describing is titled Becoming youg Own banker. It's a 92 page read. This book will Open your eyes up to a whole new financial world. I promise you, from 14 years of firsthand experience and David Stern's many, many more years than that of firsthand experience, this book will absolutely open your eyes to a whole new financial world. And when you read this book, it'll take you the better part of an afternoon to get through. And you will either receive inspiration to take that next step and have a conversation with the right person on our team, or you may not be ready to do that right away. You might have to read it again. You might have to read it again. The key is that this is more caught than it is taught. And that's directly from Nelson himself. Look, you can share the knowledge, you can discuss the concept, but a person must catch it, because once they catch it, they'll know exactly what to do. And this book is your jump point. This is where you get started, where it all begins, and where you're going to continually come back to time and time and time and time again for inspiration. Because reading the book one time just won't do the job. You've got to go back to it over and over and over again because this requires a gradual and incremental change in the way that you finance the things, how you set about going about financing the things in your life, much like what David described, property vehicles, also investments, business equipment, you name it, a whole variety of things. When you think about family banking, so, David, you've done a remarkable job sharing with the practitioner community what you've done, what you've constructed within your family banking system. Could you share some nuggets of what that construct looks like for you and for your family?

Yeah. Well, I have to give Nelson more than all the credit because he's actually physically started the system. In the book, he talks about generational wealth transfer and grandparents buying policies on grandchildren. And the book, $2,000 a year annual premium on a grandchild, whether it be a newborn or an older individual. So that was the start. Okay. When he did that in the book, he actually wrote it in the book, but he implemented it personally in his family. Okay. Of course, you know, all his children bought policies, but then he started buying policies on his grandchildren, which essentially forced us, his kids, you know, Kim and I and the other two siblings, to buy policies on our children equivalent to what he was getting. So every kid would have two policies, one owned by Nelson, one owned by their parent. So that was not a formal construct. That was just something we started doing.

And then Nelson started giving the policies to his children. When I say giving the policies, you can legally, you know, change ownership of insurance policy. That's right. With no tax implications, by the way. And so that, and that's how he was. He was passing wealth down to the next generation without going through, you know, a death claim. Okay. So I talked about this several times, how we did it. And then, you know, everybody's got to start somewhere. And you know, when we, When I started, $2,000 a year per kid and I have four children was a lot of money for us to handle. It really was because I was in the military, I was on a fixed income. My wife did not work. She was a stay at home mom.

What year was that?

Well, we got married in 79. Okay. Our first child was born in 1981. She was uninsurable. So that story's in the book too, by the way. And so the second child was born in 84. So that's, that's. 84 is when we first started buying policies on the kids. And Nelson obviously vote one on her also. And that's when the journey started. 84.

May I ask you this question, David? Because knowing that in the early 1980s, we all know what happened. Interest rates skyrocketed, peaked at 21.5%. If you were a prime customer and Nelson never met anyone, neither have I, who's prime? You're always paying a little bit more than prime. And if you think of all the events that converged in that one period of time, you had taxes, you had volatility, inflation, all of these concerns. And now we fast forward to the environment that we're in today. Taxes, high inflation, volatility. Are you more or less stressed now? Being in this period of time where all these same circumstances are converging yet again? Are you more or less stressed now that you have this system of policies versus what you were experiencing back then?

Personally, I'm obviously less stressed, okay? Because I don't have to worry about all the nonsense that's going on.

I'm worried about our country.

Unfortunately, and I'm worried about the environment that my children and grandchildren will be living in. Financially, I'm not worried about them, but I don't want to go down that rail. But everything is going the wrong direction from our perspective. But the stress level has been consistent once we got to the point where it didn't hurt so much to fund these policies. Nelson tells a story about if you're working out, if you're not lifting weights, if you're not in pain, then you're not, you know, Tearing down your muscles and rebuild them. So any kind of worthwhile achievement is going to take pain to achieve your goals and whatnot. So where we want to be right now, and in fact we just, you know, we just submitted applications for three more policies.

On a grandchild on one, and then his mom, dad are getting one on her also. And so it's like, you know, well, how much do you want? Well, let's say how much do you want? You know, the question was how much premium do you want to pay? And on a grandchild there are some unfortunate constraints with insurability and how much you can put in underwriting, whatever. I said as much as they will put on her. Okay. It wasn't like how much we can afford, it's like, how much can we get?

Yeah.

So that's how it's changed. Okay. How the perspective has changed is how much can we get? And the same note is every year when we pay premiums. And all the premiums we pay are annual premiums. We don't do monthly or quarterly, we do annual. And the next question is, how much more can I get in this policy? Okay, it's not like I don't, you know, I really don't want to pay this policy. It's like, okay, premiums paid, how much more unscheduled paid up additions can we get in this policy? Because I'd rather have it go into a policy than sitting in a bank and earning nothing.

So to answer your question, stress level is way down because it's a very stress free way of life. Finances cause more consternation in families than probably anything else. If you can solve that problem early on and make it consistent, keep it in a family dialogue, develop a family banking system where everybody knows what's going on and where the money's going and why it's going there, then it really makes it transparent for everybody and it makes a team effort.

Absolutely. And it brings back memories for me as well. David. When we first began attending the annual Infinite Banking think Tank conferences which still occur to this day in the month of February each year. And Nelson would talk about, because the question would come up, you know, people in attendance would say, hey, Nelson, how many policies do you have in your family? And he would share that amount with folks. And I had just said, just in good humor with Nelson, very early in my journey, I said, you know what? My objective is to have more.

And he said, all right, you know, and sadly I missed the mark by a quantity of three prior to him passing. But I'll Never forget speaking at the event. And I was radically transparent. I just shared with everybody the quantity of policies that we had, the cumulative cash value accumulation at that time. And at the end of the presentation, when I was giving the clicker back and the microphone back and everything, and you just leaned up, whispered in the ear, and you said, I have more cash value than you do in our.

System, by the way.

And I said, okay.

You guys are knocking out of the park, man. That's all there is to it.

It was great. And our system has grown considerably since then. And we just. Much like yourself, we just submitted an additional four applications for the sixth policy on each one of our four children's lives. And anytime I'll put my hand on my Bible right behind me, anytime that I read Nelson's book or watch his seminar, I receive inspiration to expand my program. And this is what we talk about day in and day out with people. But sometimes you can get so immersed in the coaching and the mentoring that you can lose sight of opportunity to expand your own system. And it's just amazing to be part of a community that, you know, through the grace of one man, Nelson, is what brings us all together here today. It's just. It's so awesome. And what I thought I would share is going back to the family banking talk that we had at the most recent think tank conference. And this will be really, I think, beneficial. Get a sense of actually implementing the process, actually implementing it versus talking about it. Or maybe you've read the book once and. But so here, here's the deal. So first and foremost, of course, we always, you know, give praise to Nelson and give credit to him and express our sincere gratitude. He just remains our inspiration and just take some time. Just ease on over to nelsonnashfilm.com that's Nelson Nash film.com you can also ease on over to dayofnelson.com there is so much great content there that you can take in and just immerse yourself. But what David and I have been talking about up to this point really boils down to. Everything begins with the way that we think. And this picture that you see here, this is the home that I grew up in, that I was born and raised in. This picture was taken not too long ago. The house did not look anything like this when I grew up in it. It's been renovated extensively since. But this is a picture of my dad and his brother, my Uncle Tommy. And this is yours truly standing right here. And the reason I'm sharing this is that at that Time. So I was born in 1974, and in the early 1980s, my parents went through the very same struggles that so many people did. And they continually argued about money. And nobody was there to teach them what we were blessed to have been taught by Nelson. And I wonder what would have happened in their lives and in our family, because listening to my parents argue about money was not something that any toddler should be exposed to. It was a very painful period of my life. And when I think about this journey of Infinite Banking Concepts and the process and the impact that it's had on so many people, I want everybody to hear this message. I want everybody to read Nelson's book. I want everybody to watch Nelson Nash's seminar. And the key thing that we want to get across, and David, I'd love for you to expand on this, is that Infinite Banking Concepts is not about addressing the yield of an investment. It's all about where your money resides before you control how you're going to finance the things that you need in life, which can certainly include investment. Could you comment a little bit more on that, David?

Yeah, I mean, that's. Mainstream financial planners don't get that, okay? They compare, they compare rates of return with different product sets. So they look at, okay, a whole life policy, a generic vanilla whole life policy, you know, looks like this. It performs like that. Well, I can put you in an IUL, or I can put you in a mutual fund, or I can get you whatever, and I get you double your rate of return. That's why that's. And they just close, you know, they close their mind to it. It's just a, a quote, unquote vanilla whole life product. It's a dog. Doesn't work, okay? You know, by term, invest the difference. I'm sure you've all heard that, but that's not the approach, okay? The approach is you need to start off with a savings vehicle, okay? Everybody's got to have a savings vehicle. You know, whether you tie 10% or not, you should save 10%, okay? And especially in today's environment, a properly structured whole life product is the best place as a savings vehicle. Let's just start off with, okay, but that's just a starting point. The real, the real essence of this thing is, like you said, you have to warehouse your wealth somewhere, okay? And the warehousing of wealth, the connotation, there is, the money is there, okay? It is. It's growing there, and you're using it as needed. So you're recapturing interest. If you do it correctly. Okay. So, you know, Nelson talks about, you know, 34.5% of, you know, income goes out in interest payments to third, third party lenders, whether it be home mortgages, car financing, or whatever. So create an entity where you can control that 34.5%, okay. And you can keep it within your, your sphere of influence, you know, and so it's, it's about, it's about banking. It's not about, it's not about investments, it's not about comparing financial products. It's about being a banker, understanding how to successfully be a banker, and then creating an entity that supports that concept. Simply, that's what it's about. Unfortunately, life insurance comes into the game all the time.

Right?

Okay. And so you got to, you got to, you got to address that, that dragon, you know, but it's, you know, the human behavior is the best way to describe this. A banker is, is an individual. Okay? A banker has certain traits, a certain knowledge level. And a banker controls assets. Okay, the flow of money. And that's what, that's what every family and every business should do also.

Absolutely. Hands down. Because everybody needs the use of money. And Nelson shared that someone or some organization has control over a pool of money that has to flow at a cost to meet your needs, my needs. And so why not take control of that? Function as it relates to your own needs, and not only will you prosper, but others will prosper as well. And that leads me to page three of Nelson's book. We're going to reference a few key points in Nelson's book to really cement how you've implemented this process in your life, how we've implemented it in our lives, and how we coach and mentor our clients to do the very same. So if I begin with page three in Nelson's book, I'm just going to narrate this. Nelson says that the whole idea is to recapture the interest that one is paying to banks and to finance companies for the major items that we need during a lifetime, such as automobiles. So these are three vehicles that we've purchased utilizing policy loans, and we've paid back principal and interest that you can see here displayed on the screen. This is money, the interest component that would have otherwise been transferred away from our family, that we would have never had the opportunity to save again, spend again, utilize again, all of this capital that's coming back to our system now. Here's what's really important that, that we want to convey. You may, through your research on Onko, Google or the YouTubes or the tweeters or the tiktokers or wherever it is, you're going to learn more about this concept. You might hear language like you have $1 doing multiple jobs and all of that. That is just not correct. When you access a policy loan, the money comes directly from the life insurance company. There's no value leaving your policy. Your total aquarium of capital, your cash value continues increasing every single day whether or not you utilize the policy loan provision. The key here is that your behavior is far more critical than the behavior of the life insurance company and that the understanding is you're borrowing the life insurance company's money, your capital, which is the equity in your policy, your total cash value is continually increasing every single day, no matter what. But what's really important to understand is that this is a process we started with cars. He said the other major items that we need during our lifetime, such as major appliances.

These are appliance. This is a picture of our kitchen area and dining room in our home. The appliances that were purchased, principal, amount, interest that was repaid. This is all money that's flowing back to our system so that it's money that never leaves our control. It's money that is readily available to be used as collateral to access policy loans from the life insurance company and so on. The next item was education. This is where my son attends, Vimy Ridge. It's a school and sports academy. And here's the principal paid for two years of tuition and interest. All of this money that's been paid back to our system of policies, which as at today, is a quantity of 63 and growing. Now that we've submitted an additional four applications for policies on the lives of our children education. The next is homes. So these are properties that are financed through our system of policies. The money is flowing back to our pool, not to another lender and business opportunity, investment opportunities. You can see here there's a number of businesses that I have direct ownership in that I've put a lot of capital to work in, and that we have money flowing back through our system of policies as it relates to those businesses, business equipment, and. And the list goes on and on and on. Nelson said that the very first principle that must be Understood on page 21 of his book, he indicates that the very first principle that must be understood is that you finance everything that you buy. You either pay interest that you could. You either pay interest to someone else or you give up the interest that you could have earned otherwise. The alternate use of money must always be reckoned with some call this opportunity cost. But it is amazing how many people give lip service to this fact, but they do not put it into practice in their own financial dealings. That's the equivalent of thinking that the law of gravity applies to everyone else but them. Could you expand on that talking point? All the experience that you had with Nelson, what comes up for you? When you heard me read that from.

The book, he came over here and we bantered back and forth a lot and every time I asked him a question, he would, he would answer it with a question. Okay. Because he was into like, you know, self discovery, learning, same thing. Okay, good question. You know.

What do you, what do you think the answer is? Or you know, he was. He would never come through and never, never, never hit you over the head, but he wanted you to find the answer. And you know, like you said before, everything's in the book that you need to know. That's right. You know, it's there now. One thing that he did though, that it took me a few years to figure out was he would be very subtle about the most important things. Okay. The louder he spoke, the less important that that issue was. Okay? The real important stuff, he kept it almost behind the scenes. So he wanted you to roommate and find it yourself, you know, both in discussion in the books and you know, in your seminars, the whole nine yards.

So, and I'm sure, I'm sure you can think about.

Probably a very large quantity of vehicles that you've acquired through the use of policy loans and the implementation of the process. Property, business equipment, the list goes on. You've got direct examples that you can attribute to that too. And one of the questions that comes up often is, well, so why do you want to create so many policies on your children or like in your case, with grandchildren and eventually great grandchildren. Well, you shared something with us. It was Richard and I. We were in your dining room and we were just having this ad hoc conversation. And it was during the time that the production of the Nelson S documentary film was well underway and you shared something with us that made us think differently. You said, well, look, the insurance company's general rule of thumb is that the starting death benefit of the policy should not exceed 50%, 5 0% of the total death benefit on the parents lives.

Right.

So the larger your system becomes on your own life, the more you're able to create for the next generation. Because Nelson said to think three generations past your own. So if we think of the next generation, well, the sooner you get a higher starting death benefit. Larger policy or system of policies on the kids, then by proxy they're going to be able to create much larger policies on the next generation and so on. And that was like a big aha.

Moment that we learned from you. Well, there's another thing too. And you know, people ask me, well, why are you buying these L1 hundreds, you know, life benefit 100 on a two month old baby?

Why do you own a policy on a two month old that you can be paying for 100 years? Well, the question is, I'm not going to own it for 100 years. I'm going to own it for maybe 10 years. And then somebody else is going to own it and continue to make premium payments, and then somebody else is going to own it, continue to make premium payments. And so instead of like giving somebody a death benefit check and they blow it, you give them a policy that they have to.

Maintain by paying premiums and responsibly managing that policy. And so a policy constructed correctly on a very young grandson or granddaughter that you'll have, if you do the math, you'll have three people that end up owning and paying premiums in that policy. And by the time the third person's got it, that is.

The grandchild, when they're 30, 40, 50 years old, that thing's ginormous.

Much larger than the face amount when the policy is first issued. Much larger if it's done correctly. And so you're right, the idea you get as much as you can through multiple policies. Another reason you do multiple policies, it gives you much more flexibility on payment payback schedule too, because you can only jam so much money into a policy. If you can't get it all in one, then you put some, some of that extra cash in another one and.

You get to create a place to store future windfalls. Yep, yeah, and people hear us use that language. But what we mean by that, just to use a real example, so if you have a policy in place on your child and you're utilizing that policy when your child is well into adulthood and you're accessing policy loans, you're utilizing them for a very specific outcome, whatever your financial objectives may be. And then you know that someday you're going to graduate and your own policies are going to pay out a death benefit, well, the children have been instructed, hey, listen, I'm creating this, I'm creating this so that you have a place to store the windfall, that you have a place to backfill and get this money back in so that now the child takes the Portion or some or all the proceeds of the death benefit, repays the policy loan balance on their own contracts that they now own primarily. And then they get to re access.

All of that collateral capacity, all of that accessible loan amount available. And then they get to repeat the same thing with the next generation. Hence another sharp example of Nelson's first golden rule, which is to think long range, meaning think three generations past your own. Don't be afraid to capitalize your system. Your money has to reside somewhere. Don't steal the P's, don't do business with banks and rethink your thinking. And so that brings me, David, to the next point. If we think of, in Nelson's book, if we go to page 25. So if we go to page 25, Nelson asked a very powerful question as he explained the grocery store example in his book Becoming youg Own Banker. He asked the question, would you have much of a grocery business if you were the only customer? You must build it to the point where you accommodate the needs of others in order to prosper. The same principle applies to banking. Furthermore, I am not describing one life insurance policy. This is to be a system, a system of policies. Far too many people in today's day and age are trying to get this whole thing done with one policy.

One policy. Yeah.

And it just boggles the mind.

Well, not only is it one policy, but it's one policy that's designed upside down.

Which doesn't perpetuate long term growth or usage. But you're right, it's a system of policies. Nelson at one point you said he owned 45 policies.

When he passed between Nelson and his wife mary, they owned 20 policies between them. Okay, so that means he gave away 25 policies to family members. Okay. You know, with no tax implication. Okay. And so, so, and when, so when he passed, there was, I think there was, I showed this think tank. There were 17 death benefit checks issued on his death. Okay? But the real key, and I don't know how many people picked up on this, but the real key was. But there were still 28 policies in force that, that he, that he started. In my mind, that is much larger than 17 death benefit checks. Okay? Those 28 that are. So some of them are going to be out there for 60 more years growing, okay? And so that is, that, that is the, that's the key in my mind. You know, I mean, everybody's somewhere, you know, you know, we're talking families, big families. I know people aren't married, people don't have any children. People Are, you know, worried about cash flow for their business and things like that. Yeah, that looks different. Okay.

Right.

You know, all these, you know, IBC is not one, one cookie cutter thing. It's. It is depending up. Dependent upon the situation of the client. But, you know, my focus, and it sounds like your focus too, is on this generational wealth transfer and growing these things as long as you can to pass this wealth on. And so you talked about, you know, the five, you know, key points of ibc. Rethink your thinking. Was the last one. Well, the sixth one is create a place for windfall. I wanted to jump that in there.

You heard it here first today, the exclusive the six golden rule. Create a place to store windfalls.

Otherwise you blow it. Trust me, you blow it. You know, Nelson went from don't steal the peas. They created a place for a windfall over the course of his life. And it was like, you know, I'm sure a lot of your listeners don't understand where I'm coming from if they haven't read the book yet. But Nelson was a man of parables and he talked about the grocery store as an analogy for a banking system. And stealing the peas was not, you know, not being a responsible banker with your policies.

That brings me to the whole essence of, you know, creating, creating the family, the family banking system where, you know, members of the family gradually, incrementally, over a period of time, they're being exposed to the message, they're reading Nelson's book, they maybe start a policy of their own, or they're participating by being only two of the characters in the financial play. So if you have a family member who says, oh, you know, I haven't had a chance to read the book, but I do recall you sharing, hey, when you need access to money for things like vehicles and.

Et cetera, come talk to me about it. Because we can facilitate this through the family banking system. Well, now that family member is the borrower, and that family member is by proxy the depositor. But that family member is not yet the banker or the bank owner. And you can coach your family through this process over a period of time. And I'll share just for the benefit of folks who may not have seen this in the past. So we host in our family and we're launching a course as well. In the fourth quarter of this year, there's going to be a family banking system course that we're going to coach and mentor our clients on how to replicate what we do inside of our family. And we host a meeting once a year. This was the most recent one. This was the very first vacation that we took as a.

Several members of our family attended. Not everyone could attend, but this was the first vacation since COVID And we hosted yet another family banking meeting. And in that family banking meeting where we include all the children, they've been privy to all the conversation that happens, all of the discussions around what we're planning to use the system for, what we've utilized it for. Our children get recognized for partial or full repayment of their policy loans. Now, I want to share with you, I want to emphasize we have kids in the family who are 10 years old and accessing their first policy loan and repaying it. And so kids pick up on this way faster than adults do. And I'll share very transparently with everybody to emphasize further, emphasize Nelson's point that this is meant to be a system of policies inside of our system, our family banking system, which began in 2009. So in 2009, we started with two policies, and that quantity has since grown to a quantity of 62 in February of this year and 63 as of April 4th of this year. Our total premium in year one was 16,800. Fast forward to today. It's 530,489 annually. Total death benefit began at a half a million. As Of February of 2022, it was 30,701,000. As of April 4, it's 31,045,000 and growing.

Total cash value was 4,250 at the end of 2009, $2,000,002 at the end of February 2022, and 2.335 million as of April 4. It's much larger today, and it's growing every single day like clockwork. And if you think about everything that's happening out there in the financial world right now, taxes, volatility, how many people are sick and tired of seeing red. If you have a stock portfolio, just think about what's been happening the past number of weeks. Longevity, right? That's something that people have to contend with. You think about loss of benefits. So many employers who are either reducing or taking benefits away altogether. Much like David shared earlier, we don't lose a wink of sleep at night thinking about any of that noise because our aquarium of capital continues growing every day without interruption. In our first year, our very first policy loan was for a car seat for our firstborn son, Jackson. And you could still get policy loans for less than $500 back then, which you cannot do today. It's a minimum of 500 with the carriers that we work with. But our total loan portfolio in February was 200,000. 9, 82. This is when I presented at the think tank conference and shared this with all of my colleagues who were in attendance. And as of April 4, our loan portfolio grew to 706,000. The reason it grew is because opportunities of very high caliber tracked me down. And that's what Nelson taught us. He said, when you have ready access capital on demand, on your terms, direct access to money that you a pool of capital that you own and control, opportunities of high caliber will track you down. Loan amount available was 3,825 at the end of 2009, 1,801,000 in February of 2022 and now 1.4 as of April. The loan repayments back to our system, $330 in 2009, 26,000 per month in February of 2022, and now it is 40,000 per month. All this money coming back to our family banking system. We've had two windfalls in our system since inception. Two death benefits that have been paid. That's money that has come back to the family banking system. And that was as a result of my late father in law, Papa, who passed away in September of 2020 after a very, very short battle with cancer. And so we knew that by creating all these policies on a variety of different lives, and I'm not including in that quantity of 63 all the policies that my other family members have on their own children, that I also have on their children, my nieces, nephews, et cetera, that would balloon the total quantity in the family well north of 100 policies. This is just within this inner circle. And it didn't start there. Like, David, I didn't even meet you until after I had a quantity of policies. I didn't meet you until 2012. And so if you think about your implementation as well, David, through your journey, you're starting to see children, grandchildren that Nelson had taken policies out on. They're growing, they're growing, many of whom have gone on to college and who are well into their professional lives. And so the impact that this has is so much more than just a shallow conversation about a product. It's just once you grasp it, it's like you won't even ever believe that you even wasted any thinking on should I purchase a whole life contract or should I put my money in Bitcoin? Should I buy a whole life contract or should I put my money into the stock market? Or that Mutual fund. You're missing the point entirely. You should become your own banker first. And then from that very place, you can set about financing all those things in your life. It's all about how. It's the how. Isn't that good?

Yeah, you got it, man. That's 100%. Right.

So any additional insights, David, that come up for you when you think about the application of it as it relates to a family?

The hardest thing for me, and I'm sure this is consistent with a lot of people, is assuming a family member's on board, fully understands it or accepts it, whatever, because it's. Just because they're related, they're blood relatives, doesn't mean they're going to get it. Okay? Or they want to get it. And so, you know, you can't force feed this to some, to some members the family or whatever. You have to let them come around. You know, obviously when they're kids, they just do it. You know, they don't have a choice. But when those children are grown up and now it's time for them to pony up, you know, some additional, you know, premium, then they're the ones that have to make that decision to buy additional policies and whatnot. So even though my kids are grandchildren of Nelson Nash, doesn't mean that they're all doing exactly what he would want them to do or what I want to do. So don't take it personally. Okay? You know, Jesus was not accepted in Nazareth. So, you know, Nelson said, don't get stressed out about it. You know, individuals, whether related to you or not, will get it or they won't get it. They'll be on board or they won't.

Exactly. And he said, you know, that it's not, it's not something that's meant to be communicated or intended to be taught through argument, right? That, that's, that's probably the least effective starting point. And this happens in, in the financial community all the time where, you know, you've got a, maybe a stockbroker and a life license advisor and an authorized infinite banking practitioner. And they all say, hang on a second, we gotta go get our wheelbarrows and fill them up with mud so we can start slinging mud at each other. Because my product's better than yours and your product's better than mine and all this other stuff. And it does nothing to help the consumer because they themselves have not yet caught it and they're inspired by it because look at all the great things that you can do. And then when you communicate it to someone and someone goes, I just don't get it, or I'm not going to do that. I'm going to keep putting my money into the mutual funds. And then the argument ensues, right? I'm going to try to argue my way from showing you this to convincing you that this is the thing that you should be doing. And Nelson always said, don't even go there, just read the book. That's all you got to do this 92 page book and read it with an open mind. That's all Nelson asked you to do.

He was a firm believer in that book, was the litmus test. Okay? And if somebody purchases the book or you give it to them, whatever, and they don't take the time to read it, their conversation ends until they're ready to talk about it. Okay? Regardless of what relationship you have with that individual. And.

That is the cheapest way for somebody to find out if they have a relationship with somebody or not. They want to take the time to go through that book or not.

Very good point. And it brings me to just another very important.

Golden nugget of wisdom that Nelson shared. Nelson said, what happens in the illustration is the scene. Now, what Nelson is talking about is a life insurance policy illustration. What you do with it outside the policy illustration is the unseen. And if you are a life insurance agent, I want you to read that again.

Because the emphasis gets placed so much on the product. The policy illustration, the policy itself is just a tool. Infinite banking concepts is a process. And this is an example that I also shared during the think tank and I talked about Nelson. On one day, Nelson sent this picture. He sent a picture of a tree stump. And you could see Nelson's feet just standing next to this tree stump when he snapped the picture and he sent this picture and he said, I want you to utilize this.

As a teaching moment in these events for the general public. And so I got on the phone with Nelson and I said, I'm coachable. Can you expand on it? And he said, I want you to think about when your policy first begins. First of all, have you ever seen a tree stump? And I said, yes, of course. And he said, what does each ring represent?

And I replied, growth. And he said, almost.

One year of uninterrupted growth. And then he asked the question, have you ever seen a tree contract? Mother Nature's gonna supply it with nutrients and rain and the tree is only going to continue to expand the circumference of it. So I want you to think of each ring as a policy Anniversary. Each year, that policy just keeps. The circumference of it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Now, it's inconsequential that some of these rings are more closely spaced, but the circumference is always getting bigger. So each time the insurance company declares a dividend, it's guaranteed to be paid. It can't be repossessed, it can't lose value. Because Nelson often heard people say, oh, dividends are not guaranteed. And he would correct you. He would say, the only dividend that's not guaranteed is the one that hasn't been declared yet.

Every other one that's been declared and paid is guaranteed. And this particular policy, I represented it this way for our colleagues to share that very same knowledge that Nelson shared with all of us. And if you look at this, this is a policy that first began in 2012. The annual premium is $20,000 that goes into this policy. And I still pay the premium to this day and will continue to pay it for as long as I'm here. And in 2012, this policy first began. This was coincidentally the year that my twin daughters, Caitlin and Charlotte were born. And in 2013, our first dividend was paid to the policy. It increased the paid up additions, which increased the circumference of the policy. The very next year, we took family vacation, took our whole family on vacation utilizing a policy loan. So the insurance company's money was used to pay for the vacation. Our earned income went back into the system as policy loan repayment. Our total cash value kept growing every single day that we were on vacation and every single day thereafter. And then the very next year, we purchased a vehicle, a Honda Odyssey, utilizing a policy loan. Dividends have been paid every single year since this policy's been enforced. The very next year, another dividend was paid. Very next year, we bought another car, bought a Ford Explorer. Year after that, we took another family vacation. Year after that, we took another family vacation. Then Covid came along, no family vacation. And then in 2021, purchased the Nissan Altima. This is one policy.

Now, I can't find any of these vacations or vehicles or all of the stress that it took away, the peaceful, stress free way of life that it's created. I cannot locate that anywhere on a policy illustration.

And I haven't met any advisor who can. When you're thinking about implementing this process in your own life, as it relates to your needs, I want you to think about all of the memories that you're going to create in the future with your family, the vacations the you're going to help out the kids when they want to go to post secondary or maybe invest in a business or maybe you want to grow a real estate portfolio. Maybe you want to. Whatever it is that, that you set about to do financially, if you ignore who's controlling the banking function as it relates to those things that you're planning to do financially, then you have an opportunity here to set out on your journey and create your peaceful, stress free way of life. Because once you achieve that, there's really nothing that can take you backward. Whether the stock market declines or the economy recedes or tax rates go up or you live longer and maybe you're worried that you're going to run out of money. Nothing can set you back because you're in a position of total and absolute control financially. Isn't that good?

Yeah, I mean, that's why I said you're empowering the, the customer. They are controlling this thing, nobody else but them. The policy owner is the decision maker, the ones that make it or break it. And quite frankly, a lot of people in the industry don't like that.

That's right, because they want, they want.

That, they want that customer, that client to be dependent upon them.

And so that's, it's, you know, it's, it's contradictory to the financial thought process in the industry. What you can't, you can't empower your client that much that they might, they might do something wrong. Well, not if you're coaching them and not if they're responsible bankers.

So we express to people all the time that the two most important words in the title of this book are right here.

Nelson didn't say, become the banker in your life as long as you have someone there holding your hand and doing all the work for you. He wanted you to become dependent, not, not rely on or be dependent upon someone else to perform that function. Because if you do that, you're abdicating the responsibility and more importantly, you're abdicating the opportunity as it relates to that. So take control of it and become independent. That's the key. And again, I'll take everybody back to the book Nelson talked about on page 15 of the book. It all reminds me of a phenomenon in physics. Take a pail of water to seaside. I want you at sea level and heat it up to 210 degrees Fahrenheit. And all you have is very hot water. But if you heat it up to 212 degrees Fahrenheit, you have live steam with unbelievable power. The steam engine Changed the world. But it doesn't happen until you get past 212 degrees. Lots of heat goes into the process up to the boiling point, but the dramatic power comes on suddenly. So if you think about the tree stump analogy, and you think about 2012 to today.

Paying the premium into that policy, capitalizing it each and every year, that is what was the equivalent of heating up that pot of water.

Yep.

And then once the policy got to the point where every dollar of premium that I deposited created far more than a dollar of loan amount available and total cash value, that's when the policy achieved 212 degrees Fahrenheit, live steam was created. And so that specific policy, I'm going to pay the premium in October of this year again. When I paid it in October of last year, I paid 20,000 in premium. The increase in total cash value was north of 28,000. So if you want to talk to me about addressing inflation, I think I just beat the pants off of inflation with that one transaction. And it just keeps getting better and more efficient.

The pile of money. The aquarium just keeps growing day in.

And day out, and you can't do anything about it.

No. Yeah. Like, I mean, you, you could call the life insurance company and say, hey, would you mind doing me a favor and just slowing down the growth in my system, or maybe just adding a little bit less capital to my aquarium. The insurance company is going to say, look, that's just not possible. We, we are the administrator of this insurance contract, so we are legally bound. This policy is a unilateral, binding contract, so we are legally bound to fulfill all of the contractual guarantees that we've promised to fulfill, regardless of what's happening in the stock market or the economy, political or whatever that may be.

And a reason for that is because these insurance companies, mutual companies, they're thinking 20 years out also, totally. They've got their investment portfolio invested properly, where they don't take a substantial hit on anything at any time.

Precisely.

Yeah.

And, David, this takes me now to page 85, close to the end of the book. And there's such an important, important teaching moment that Nelson shared on page 85. And there are two points. The first is, if you knew at passive income time that you would be getting back everything that you paid into a system tax free, would you object to putting more money in it? If you think about that logically, you would say, okay, no, of course not. I would not object to that. Motivation. Are you motivated to do something different financially? Absolutely. So logic plus motivation. Next step. Is take the action and then be consistent. And the third point is, when you get paid for your work, you put all of it into someone else's bank and then you write checks from the account to buy the things in life so someone else's bank gets all of your money. If you owned a banking system, wouldn't you want to run all of your business through your bank? If this is so, then life insurance premiums paid each year should ultimately equal annual income. This can't be done immediately. It will take the average person about 20 years to reach this level. If this message is taught to succeeding generations like David and I have been describing, then a perpetual banking system can be achieved. And when, not if, but when death comes, I. E. In Nelson's case, when death came and he graduated, the system became self sustaining.

The payment of death benefit proceeds immediately made the system self sustaining. And so going back to this book, if you've received your link, whether it was text message to you or whether it's been emailed to you, you've likely received both. Click the link, get a copy of the book.

And your, your eyes will be opened up to a whole new financial world. And if you're already an existing practitioner of the process in your life, I'd invite you to just take a moment and think about somebody who would benefit from the gift of this knowledge. Click through that link, get them the book. And this brings me to revealing a very amazing, awesome.

Announcement from the Institute. And David, if I may, if I can turn it over to you to share what has been recently made available online via the Institute, and then I'll share how people can take advantage of accessing it.

You know, we've been this whole discussion centered around the Nelson Nash, okay. Because you know, you have to give credit where credit is due and unfortunately passed three years ago now. So a lot of people have not had an opportunity to listen to him, to see him, to meet him. But we have recorded his seminars and you could purchase those in DVD format or whatever, but most folks don't have that capability anymore with a modern computer and phone situation. But anyway, just recently we've loaded Nelson's seminar on the website.

It's set up as an 11 video, five part course. Okay. So anybody can access that, purchase that, and access that, and spend as much time watching Nelson. Listen to Nelson if you have a copy of the book, making notes as he's talking to help clarify points. Because Jason did a wonderful job expressing the essence of ivc. I mean it's right, right on. Okay, But Here in Nelson talk about it, it just takes you to a different level.

Absolutely.

And so I just think it's, I just think that, that anybody who has not had the opportunity to listen to that man needs to take advantage of what we've done on the website. Like presenting those videos on the website.

Absolutely. And we were literally probably about 10ft off the ground in excitement.

When we found out that that's been done. And when Nelson delivered seminars, he delivered them primarily through sponsorship. And so for example, if we wanted to have Nelson speak to our client community, we would invite Nelson, we would take care of all of his expenses, we would pay him a fee to deliver his talk. And so this information has value and it'll be one of the best investment of dollars that you make. And what the institute has been gracious enough to do is for practitioners like our team at Ascendant and any other practitioner in North America, they can offer that at a 20% discount to folks in their community to consume that content. And so we're going to send you a link and if you're picking up on this on the youtubes, maybe you're watching this at some point in the future, if you just look in the description of the video, that'll be the first thing that you see is a link to go and purchase that content. And my understanding, David, is that once the it's password protected access, so the buyer creates their own password protected access and then they have unlimited access to that, to that content. It doesn't, the access doesn't expire.

You're right. The access is forever and it's resident on the website. They just, it should automatically sign them in every time they go back and so they can watch it over and over and over again, you know, with no restrictions at all.

That is so good. And Sarblo, do we have you on, do we have some questions that have come up in Q and A that we can share for the benefit of all the attendees and have David tackle them.

One question that's coming up is how do you, how do I become a practitioner of the process of becoming a banker? And I think this individual is more asking regarding how do I become part of the Nelson House Institute and share this message? So David, do you want to tackle that question?

Well, if that individual is a Canadian, I'm assuming they are. If they're life licensed, that's number one. We don't accept anybody unless they've got a license sell the product because we don't want to educate somebody to have them, you know, Pass lease to somebody else. So Canadian life license and they need to be sponsored. Okay, contact Sarbalo, Jason, Joseph, anybody, and say, you know, say, listen, I'm interested in doing this, and if. And if you are ready, then, then Sarblo or Jason will contact me and said, you know, we kind of, you know, talk to this individual and we think they're a good candidate and we'll schedule them for an interview. When I say we, it's Carlos, Laura, Robert Murphy, myself, and we interview them and accept them, or we don't accept them and they're on the educational road. So after that.

And then there's. In addition to that, Sarblo, as you know firsthand, the Nelson Nash Institute does have a mentoring process that is required to be fulfilled. And we, I can only speak for a Senate, you know, respecting that. We have so many great practitioner colleagues all around North America who coach and mentor people all the time. At Ascendant, we. We show up a little differently because our mentoring period is for one year. And our belief through firsthand experience is that is the length of time that it takes to. To approach proficiency because it's through repetition and repetition becomes your best learning aid. And having a coach who's been practicing this process for several years and can expose you to a wide variety of different scenarios is just so beneficial. But we will say that, you know, again, our approach to this may be different, and it's just that it's different. It's not that it's right or wrong.

Or anything like that.

It's just different. That's how we go about coaching people. And we take great pride in our wanting to have that length of time to really pour into someone and to help them and give them all of the exposure they need to be successful. Because if you rush into it and you move from I'm interested to mentoring to I'm on my own in rapid fire, then the probability of success just diminishes greatly. So that's good to have a good coach, as David said.

Absolutely, Jason. Having to go through this process myself back in 2016, and it was a year coaching mentorship training for me also, and it was worth every time spent.

The other question that came up was, you know, what if I'm not insurable? Now, I remember again, learning from David and Jason that Nelson, you know, was not insurable, and then it didn't prevent him from practicing the concept of the process of becoming a banker, the infinite banking concept. So, David, could you shed some information on that?

Yeah. The most important aspect of Becoming your own banker is to own the bank. Okay? The policy owner is the individual that calls the shots, and that policy owner doesn't have to be the insured individual. So the next question is, well, who's, you know, who can I insure? Okay, Family member, business associate. It's a pretty long list. Obviously, you have to go through underwriting to get all that approval. But.

The person that owns the policy is the most critical person in the equation because he's the individual that pays the premiums, he's the guy that manages the policy loans, and he's the individual that either does it right or screws it up. So look for somebody you have insurable interest in, okay? If you. If you have children, business associates, spouse, whatever, then that's a great place to start.

And in addition to what David described in Nelson's book on page 82.

The title of the topic is what if I am Uninsurable? And Nelson shares an example of how a person who was uninsurable successfully implemented the process and also addressed the first golden rule to think long range. And so it's a great example to go back to in the book, and it will be very revealing as to how simple it is to implement this process, recognizing that you don't have to be the life that is insured.

Absolutely. And I'm going to repeat what David and Jason have already been talking about. If you haven't had an opportunity to read Nelson's book while you. We do have an opportunity today. A lot of questions are frequently asked questions. And one reading to Nelson's book just doesn't do justice. You read it a few times and then you'll pick up on something new every time you read it.

That's important. We have an audible, audible version also out there. And it's. I'm not crazy about it, but that helps listening and reading at the same time, too.

That's awesome. And our hope is because there was a talk that was delivered at this most recent think tank and it was titled the Tale of Two Dads. And our hope is that we can inspire David to release that in a audio and book format as well, because it is that that was one of the most, I guess, the talks that I enjoyed the most think tank as well. And the general public needs to hear that. David, awesome. Thanks for all this. It's fantastic what you shared. And one thing I wanted to inquire about as a question is something that you've told. I know in conversations that we've had before and with many of the practitioners is some of those coffee morning meetings that you would have when Nelson would wake you up early, when he would come over for coffee and rummage through your office, convincing you to wake up because he was rattling around books and papers so that you would get out of bed. And, you know, you. You reflected on, you know, some of those conversations you were having, as Nelson was in his later years, about policy loan portfolios. So I'm wondering if you can speak to that a little bit for the folks that are in attendance today.

You're talking about the painful conversation when he walked in here and asked me, how many outstanding loans did I have?

That's the one.

Okay. He wanted to know a number. And it was like, you know, the first thing that came to my mind was, oh, no, I'm not being an honest banker. I'm stealing the P's. He said, no, tell me how much your policy loan portfolio is. I said, okay, $500,000. He said, oh, good.

I was hoping it was that much. And I went, what are you talking about? And this goes back to what Jason was talking about earlier about. We had a discussion about the windfalls. Okay. And he was looking for someplace that he could fill up.

With his passing. Okay. So we could. We could. We could regenerate the system and perpetuated for another generation. And so that's rule number six is have a place for windfalls.

I love that. We got to get that out there to our whole client community.

And, you know, I was listening to the podcast episode where David was on with yourself and Richard, you know, one thing that, you know, I always go back and rethink our thinking, too. Well, David, you mentioned something really important. That cash value in the policy is not money. It is capital and is different from money, right?

Yeah. Well, the way I approach it, the policy is a contract.

And your cash surrender value is.

There'S no money sitting in there.

It's your collateral and it's capital. You're right. You know, and, you know, Ryan Griggs talks about capital all the time, and that guy's a lot smarter than I am. And he. He has figured it out in a big way. So.

Absolutely. And we can include some links in the description, too, to some of the references that we made. So Ryan Griggs in particular, he authors quite a few blog articles. Articles. And is very vocal on, you know, placing an emphasis of being well capitalized, not being afraid to capitalize your system. We are going to share a link, as I mentioned earlier. We're going to share a link to be able to purchase the Nelson Nash seminar by accessing it online through the Nelson Nash Institute. Okay, very good, David. Sincerely, grateful, humbled.

Thank you. Thank you for being generous with your time this evening. We respect that and we appreciate it very much. And any parting thoughts that you'd like to share with attendees this evening.

I enjoyed it very much. It's fun to.

Get out, quote unquote, and see, folks.

But because.

Covid has really kind of.

Done some bad things when it comes to maintaining relationships. So I'm really super excited you guys are doing last live event. That is amazing. Keep it up. And, you know, we've, you know, we debated if we're going to do our think tank last year, and I know we said we're definitely going to do it. Nobody shows up. No harm, no foul. We got to do it. And so the venue I picked was just big enough for what I thought we'd have, and it was too small.

Okay.

Because. Because people wanted to get out and they wanted to congregate. They wanted to press flesh and re, you know, kindle relationships and talk. So life stuff is great. Keep it going and keep pushing it.

Thank you. Thank you. Sincerely, David, very much. And we'll have you back again if you'll join us. And for folks in attendance, if you haven't seen the podcast interviews that we've hosted with David, just ease on over to. You can go to the YouTube channel Wealth Without Bay Street. Again, that's Wealth Without Bay Street. And there are episodes where David's being interviewed by Richard and I, and we take a much deeper dive into David's journey with this process and so much more. And so just head on over to the channel and take in the content. We also interview clients. We have a whole client series. We dive into very specific segments of the book and expand on that. So enjoy. It's free of charge and you can access it from any device that connects you to the Internet. But I want to thank all of you for being with us. There will be more live event dates announced across the country, so please stay tuned for that, and we look forward to seeing you at a live event real soon. Thanks, everyone. Enjoy the rest of your evening.