Recapture HELOC & Save For Investment Using IBC In Canada

I want to take that energy. I want to take those, the energy of the financial dollars. Instead of putting extra money toward the line of credit and giving it to someone else's bank, I want to pump it into the business that I co own so that I can recycle that money. The cash is growing every day, Right. So if you pay back that loan early, great access alone, chunk down the line of credit even further and then keep pumping the money right back in. Because you could use a combination of the home equity line and the policy system to pay your $80,000 down payment, 6 1/2 dozen the other. But I think that by putting the energy in the policy system and then recapturing as much as you can accessing loans more often, like every three months, you're going to be hitting that principle more with the insurance company's money while you keep pumping your own money through the policy. And then that will reduce the amount of interest that you're going to pay as well.

I wanted to take the opportunity to get together with you, you know, just, just to connect again and chat. And you mentioned that you had a few questions and you've accessed some policy loans. So I just wanted to get a quick rundown kind of how that all went and what, you know, what you used the money for. You talked about a loan repayment schedule and all that. I just want to get a sense of all that so you can give me an idea so I can just kind of document it and then we can dive into some questions. Does that sound good?

That sounds good.

So you accessed, I don't know if it was the maximum loan from both policies.

That's right.

Okay. And then I probably have it documented. But I'm curious, what did you end up using the cash for?

Well, I have line of credit open, so I just paid it off. Like not paid it up, but I just put it in whatever I took out from the policy. Nice.

Okay, and what type was that? A home equity line or what type?

Home equity line.

So you used it as a lump sum.

Right? Now this is ringing a bell. So basically you were putting, correct me if I'm wrong, you were putting quite a bit of extra money toward the HELOC anyway, is that right? And now you're redirecting those payments back to the policy system?

Not everything, but yeah, I still put an extra there, but I still put in here. So what my goal is here is to pay off the loan and let's say I'm planning for 12 months. So I, whatever loan I took, divide into 12 months and I paid back. So whatever monthly comes to that, I'll just pay back to the loan every month. That way I can pay off the loan. So main reason for the policy fund, I want to use it for that. I have couple house booked next year which might have to pay some of the down payment. So around 80,000 or something. So one insurance like this premium I paid already, one will be in June and next year will be another June. So let's say three premiums I'll pay in the policy, which maybe allow me somewhere around 60,000 or something in loan total after 3, 3 premium. And I need to put 80,000 into the down payment. So I want to get that put in right now so I have it when I need it next year, at the end of the next year. And I will be using fund during this time as well.

Right.

But main purpose is to have it available in the policy at that time as well.

So your, your premiums, we must have backdated those policies, is that right?

That's right. So we did it in December. I think it was backdated in June or something.

So this June I'll have second premium and then following June I'll have one more. So.

Let me see here. So.

If I look at Bijel, I'm.

Just going to go, I think Harv wasn't backdated. I don't know why.

Yeah. So how backdating works is we could backdate the policy by up to six months to save the current age. How the life insurance companies work is when we're within six months of a birthday, they're going to age us. So just where your birthday's landed, her birthday is in June. So when we put the policy in place, she was six months away from her birthday. Cause her policy date is December 8th. So she was her current age at the issue time the policy was issued. And then for your policy, mine is backdated to June. Right. Because your birthday is in January. So happy late birthday. And so we backdated the policy. Yes. So your policy premium due date is July 23rd, which is six months before your birthday. So we saved your current age. So July 23rd, so you're going to deposit premium in July, the annual premium, and then you'll deposit premium in December for B. Joel's policy. So you're paying X amount back. Like what did you decide as the loan repayments back to your policy?

So the loan I divided into 12 months and whatever the amount came in, I decided that I'll put 13 months so last one will be extra. So 12 is just a repayment and the 13th will be just the whatever towards the interest or whatever it counts. Right. So I think it came down to 1450. Let me see if the exact amount. 1 sec. 1415 and 205. That's what the payment.

I have 1415 dollars.

And then, and then 205 for the second policy.

So you want to have about 80,000.

As policy loan.

Available. When is that due?

Approximately next year, let's say around September, October 2023. 2023, that's right.

So are you putting the, let's call it.

1620 combined. Are you putting the 1,620 back into the policies and paying the minimum on the home equity line plus more or you just.

Yeah.

Can you remind me.

What'S the approximate balance of the heloc?

Right now it's growing every day. Right now it's around at 300k.

Oh. Why do you say it's growing every day? Because. Are you using the money or just because of the interest?

Yeah, I'm using it for different things for some investments and stuff like that.

And so when you, when you, so you're using it for. So you, so you'll pay a certain amount down and then you'll use it for something. You'll pay a certain amount down, then you'll use it for something. Is that kind of what's happening?

You're just continuing not regularly using it? But if I, let's say if I need something for maybe I'm now planning for booking the new house, so I might use it from there. Right. So before I use 80,000, now again I use for 40,000 to build my basement. So stuff like that. Right?

Yeah. No, the only reason I'm asking Parish is because I just want to identify opportunities to help you just maximize the value of your system and your own dollars. The good news is, is if things stay the same, the likelihood is you'll have that line of credit still available to you. Fast forward September 2023. Right. But I mean you're constantly using it as a tool. So this might not be the best strategy or the best use of money for you. But what I'd be doing is, personally what I do is I pay the minimum on my home equity line and then I put as much as I can. Anything extra that I was planning to put on the home equity line, I would just pay it right back to my policy. Because my policy is growing every day. I want to take that energy, I want to take those. The Energy of the financial dollars. Instead of putting extra money toward the line of credit and giving it to someone else's bank, I want to pump it into the business that I co own so that I can recycle that money. Their cash is growing every day. Right. So if you pay back that loan early, great access alone, chunk down the line of credit even further and then keep pumping the money right back in. Because you could use a combination of the home equity line and the policy system to pay your $80,000 down payment in September. Right. I just wanted to recapture as much of that money and much of that energy as I can so that you're the one retaining the cash in your policy system. But I mean ultimately you're going to do what's best for you, right? What you think is best. What makes most sense for you?

Yeah. No. Well, here's a question for you then. So if, let's say instead of 12 months, if I pay off in eight months.

How much different would it make? I'm not sure.

Well, I mean if you, if you pay off your policy loan in 8 months instead of 12 months, how would you go about getting that done? Like, sorry, I don't know if you answered my specific question earlier. You are, you are paying the minimum payment on your line of credit still and you're putting extra toward it.

That's right.

And paying back the policy loans. Right?

Yes. Yeah. So I'm just putting extra both places. It just.

Yeah, yeah. No, and again, there's no right or wrong. It's just, it's just a matter of you really, really determining for yourself what works best. I personally, I would not give them a single penny more than what they're asking for. Because you send an extra 500 bucks to the bank, it brings down your balance a little bit. But you just gave use and control over that money, that financial energy, what that money could grow into. You gave it to someone else's bank. Whereas I want to harness as much of that financial energy as I can. I want to pump that same energy into a business that I co own. Am I going to direct? And now the money, the capital is retained inside your policy system so that you can, you can access it from the policy. Right. But the point is, is I want to put that money into Equitable before I use it. I could put it, pay some policy loans back to Equitable, I can access a policy loan and I could chunk it under my line of credit. Now it seems subtle, but when I borrow from my own policy, I'm not using my own money anymore. My money was pumped into the policy system so that they could put the money to work to grow more profit long term for that business that we co own. So it's not going to have a direct impact on the growth of my policy necessarily. But I'm practicing the concept. I'm harnessing the financial energy. I'm the one collecting and accumulating the money and then I borrow against that and I use the life insurance company's money to chunk down the line of credit. So you're doing much like what you're doing today. I'm just recycling the money through my policy first before I put an additional principal payment on my line of credit.

Yeah, well, yeah, I can recycle more faster than I think. I just.

I have set up like I can do it in eight months. There is no issue. Maybe.

Yeah, it's completely up to you. I mean, here's the thing. There's nothing. It depends on the objective. It sounds to me like your, your objective isn't necessarily to pay off that home equity line of credit as rapidly as you can. Am I wrong?

Well, not really because it's, it's, it's big amount and the policy wise.

I don't have enough to pay that off. Right, yeah.

No, regardless of the policy. I'm just saying in general, if you've never heard of the process of becoming your own banker, like you told me that you pay down some and then you end up using some for opportunities or renovate the basement or whatever.

But I try to put as much as can because two things. One thing is I'm paying less tax. The more I put in, I pay less tax.

And less interest.

Oh, less. No, no, no worries. Perfect.

No, that makes sense. So more I put in, less interest I pay. Second thing, the more I put in will be available for me. It's not going anywhere. It's heloc, Right. So yeah, it's so I saving it plus it making it available for any other opportunity. Right. That's the only reason I'm trying to pay off as much as can. So I have a bigger pool to use from.

No, perfect. I am right there with you just trying to understand exactly what it is that you're doing so that I can give you the best guidance that I can.

What I failed to do.

Paresh, is I normally what I would do is I like to capture values in your policy from yesterday so that we can look at, well, what's the difference between yesterday and today? You may have already done this. I mean, you've logged into your equitable life client access before, right?

Yeah.

And you've probably seen that just because you and Bijol were blessed by the higher power of your choice to have oxygen today, the thing that we said we're so grateful for today, there's more cash in the policy than there was yesterday, right?

Yeah.

So that's the idea for me.

You're making good income, you're putting a lot of money back toward your policy, which is really great. It's a responsible thing to do. You're putting all that money back in the policy to replenish what you used. And then you're putting extra money toward the home equity line of credit. But now if we put, even if you just put what you're putting into the policy, you don't necessarily have to repay the whole loan before you access more. So what I personally would do, just me, because the cash is going up by 6, 7, 8, 9, $10 a day, whatever that number is, pumping the money back into the policy, paying the minimum on the line of credit. Now you pay back your full loan, there's going to be however many days have gone by that it takes for you, let's say it's eight months, however many days have gone buy there's going to be that many days of accumulation of that daily cash growth. You can go back and access 100% of what you paid back plus 90% of whatever's grown and you can chunk that on the line of credit. Right.

Let me ask you this. So the more I put in, it will grow more in the policy? Is that what the concept is?

So let's say if I, instead of 1500, I put 2000 every month.

Would it grow more than what it would have grown with 1500 or I don't know.

No. No. Good question. No, so great question. So all you're doing by paying 2,000 instead of 1,500 is you're accelerating the pay down of the loan and more, you know, more capital because you're paying it back more would be available to you because you paid back more. The cash value is still growing at the exact same rate. It's just that the daily cash growth that you can access is 90% of whatever the, whatever the daily growth is. But the loan that's outstanding, there's interest on that loan. But all they're doing with that interest on the loan is withholding what you have access to. So, like if I have access to $5 and my loan interest is $1, I would just have access to $4 instead of 5 because $1 is going to interest. So that's why as I pay back the loan, I get access to all of it, including the interest. Because whatever's being accumulating as interest is just representing a part of the 90% that I would have had access to in the first place.

So the only way to grow the policy is to actually deposit premium. Well, you've already maxed out the premium for the year by paying back the loan. All you're doing there is obviously a good practice, but you're the one who's collecting and accumulating the money. And again, that financial energy, I'm not going to be able to calculate the impact of paying back more money to the policy. All I know is that if I pay more to the bank, the bank's putting that money to work to grow profit for them. If I put more toward the policy, they're putting that money to work to grow profit for the policy owners. So over the course of the rest of our 70 years on light on Earth or whatever that number is, that's a lot. That's a ton of cash that we're already depositing anyway that we can circulate through a company that we co own. I pump it through the policy and let it sit and grow. And then when I'm ready, maybe every quarter, whatever works best for Paresh. But every quarter, every three months, you can go back and take a maximum loan from each of the policies, plunk it onto your line of credit, and then just keep repeating the process. And then when premium comes due, great, pay the premium. That will increase everything. The policy cash values will grow more each day. Now, because we're in the second year, take the money again, recycle it under the line of credit. Now, I fast forward to September of 2023. Assume because you're doing this process, well, Maybe you have five or ten thousand bucks available in your policy system, but you've got $100,000 available on the line of credit. No big deal. Max out the loan on the policy, max out the line of credit, pay your down payment and repeat the process of one half dozen the other. But I think that by putting the energy in the policy system and then recapturing as much as you can, accessing loans more often, like every three months, going to be hitting that principal more with the insurance company's money while you keep pumping your own money through the policy, and then that will reduce the amount of interest that you're going to pay as well.

Yeah, that makes sense to Just something to think about.

Here's the beauty of it. We just started. You get to experiment and play with this thing, right? You can, you can, you can keep the payments going on the home equity line of credit, or you can drop it down to the minimum again. So the thing that I care about most, Parrish, is the amount of money that's leaving you. So I go, hey, you're making good money. If you're going to put it in the line of credit anyway, just pay the minimum on the line of credit and then pump money into the policy for a few months and then we'll access a loan and we'll just do a bigger lump sum. Instead of you doing it every month out of your cash flow, I would just first pump the money into the policy system.

Yeah, no, it does make sense, but it's just doing it too often. I don't know how would that affect it. But it's a good practice to set up anyways. Yeah, that's not make a big difference, but it's a good practice to just set it up that way.

Right, exactly. Because there's so much more to it. You hit the nail on the head. You know, people say to me, one of the main questions, nothing wrong with this. One of the main questions, I go, well, how's that going to affect my policy? Is that going to make it grow more? Not necessarily. I mean, but at the same time, there's also just the practice of being the banker anytime. If I'm the banker, I'm going to get all the money first and then I'm going to redistribute the cash as a loan. Because loans are good for banks. Right. We're bankers now, so we want to pump that money back in and then lend it back out to Paresh and his family so that they can accelerate their, their debt, pay down and then keep just recycling that energy. Yeah, yeah, there was some. You'd mentioned it. Let me know where you're at with that. Let me know what your, you know, what you plan to do or, you know, like I said, you can mix it up, you can do different things. But yeah, just get into the rhythm at first and then you can always experiment with it.

So the, my first objective with the policy was to just pay down my, you know, the, the payment next year, right. When the closing comes up, the down payment for about 80,000. So that's what I mean is that maximum I have available in the policy so I can pay down from there instead of getting more loan from the bank. So I can get maximum loan from the, from the policy and that way I can have less loan from the bank so I can start the cycle bigger. Little bit.

Yeah, go ahead.

And the second one was to just repayment, like every time I have to send them email or just every. I do have auto deposit, like recurring every month. I have set it up every month, taken out that amount. So do I have to. My question was, do I have to send them email every month or they just deposit to the. To the loan automatically? That was my question. Right.

Okay, so let me make sure that I. Because I think I sent you a video and I think. Did you remind me again, who do you bank with?

Td.

Oh, good. So did. When with. Not. Not. I only say good because that's who I bank with. So familiar with the platform. So when you went in to set in, set up the automatic loan repayments, did you do what I kind of shared on the video where you did?

Yeah. So that's what I did. I have recurring every month.

The same amount. So the only question is to the equitable part, the bank part is. Okay. The equitable part, like, do I need to send them email that deposit into my loan? Whatever. Right. Or they will just deposit automatically. I don't need to send them anymore.

So what we'll do is we'll send them one email.

Okay.

To tell them because it's a regular recurring payment. So what I would do. Here's. Here's a. Here's the thing to think about, Paresh. I mean, you're already. You're putting money in investments and savings accounts as well, right?

Savings. I'm not putting it anymore.

Yeah. Okay, great.

It doesn't make sense now.

Yeah, no, I.

This is, this is saving too, right?

No, it is. Exactly. No, that's why I totally agree. So here's what I would do. I would send an email to Equitable Life, and I would send. And you could. It's up to you. I'm just really. What's the word I'm looking for? I just have a healthy level of paranoia when it comes to my communication with the insurance companies. So I'd like to be as straight as possible. So what I mean by that is you have two policies I would basically just copy and paste. I would actually create two emails. I'd create one for Bijoux, one for you, and I would just say, okay, please note, I have a recurring payment to the above noted policy of $205 on or about the 15th of each month, because it's going to depend on the business day. Right. And I don't know what day you picked, but I'm just making that up. So on or about the 15th of each month, I have a recurring payment of $205 per month that's going to be coming to Equitable Life. Please apply that recurring payment to the outstanding policy loan balance. So we have to send it just one time so that they have a note on the system so that when that money shows up or they already know, oh, he gave us instructions. Policy loan repayment. And then you do the same thing for your policy. $1,415 per month. Now what you have the advantage of doing, though, is now we don't have to pay send the email each month, but let's just say you decide. Oh, yeah, Vernon and I were having that conversation. I've got an extra thousand bucks that I was going to put on my line of credit. You know what, I'm going to first send it to the policy loan as a repayment first. That would be like a one off ad hoc payment. If you did that, that's where you would just send one random email to them and say, hey, I made an additional payment of $1,000 to my policy. Please apply it to the outstanding loan balance. So the reoccurring payment would still be coming out, but you can still throw ad hoc payments toward the loan repayment.

Makes sense.

And here's the thing, you can keep doing what you're doing, Paresh. After four or five months of repaying the loans, you might look and go, gosh, you know, yeah, the cash is just growing and it's there. And that's great. Now you know what, I'm just going to max out a loan and chunk it onto my line of credit. You could change things around later on, but for now, let's keep it simple. You already have a reoccurring payment that you've already set up. You haven't communicated that with Equitable Life yet though. Right?

Like you have.

Not the recurring one. I haven't. The last one I sent you, I probably copy you from the next one I forgot to copy, but I'll copy. And just say this is recurring for the applying policy for each number.

Yeah, great. Yeah, let them know because I can see here on your policy exactly what you said so far, the life to date policy loan repayments is 14, $15. So it's come in, it's paid down the balance. But what's interesting about it, I mean, I don't know if you've already Looked, but you paid back 14, $15. Now remind me again, when you took the first loans, did you max out the loan? Did you take the maximum loan available?

That's right.

When's the last time you looked at your values?

I think few days back.

Oh, great. So you've seen what's interesting. I just, I mean, to me, I just find this fascinating. I know we're putting more into the policy in the early years than we're taking out.

But you paid back $1,415, but yet there's a $1,600 loan available.

Just because the cash value is going up every day, right? Yeah. So now we get to use that type of momentum, that growth to help accelerate the line of credit pay down. But you don't have to do that. You just get to decide what's best. Because we have multiple objectives. One is obviously we all want to recapture or eliminate third party debt, but you're also doing investments and you have other objectives. So, you know, sometimes there's what makes sense on paper from numbers and then there's also psychological and emotional. Right. If you just feel more comfortable, if you're comfortable with the line of credit that, that debt, if you're comfortable making the minimum payment and paying more if you choose to, and you're more comfortable making sure that you retain the money in your policy so that you know, 100% you're prepared to use the system for that 20, 23 September down payment, then you just get to choose. And the beauty of it is there's really no right or wrong because it's your system. I'm just here to give you good guidance. If you have a change of heart or an idea, anything ever comes up, you're more than welcome just to reach out to me.

Yeah, I know that that makes sense because I'm still learning. Right. So I'm trying to understand which could benefit in a long term. And yeah, it's a bigger practice to put maximum out in policy for sure. Yeah. Just sometime, you know, it just feels okay, both places going, you know, some extra both place goes down, you feel better sometimes psychologically one place, you know, it's, it's psychologically, sometimes you feel better doing it, you know, extra little bit both places rather than just one place.

So yeah, you know what, mentioned that. So for me this is so good. I psychologically again for me, I like to see, well, my cash value go up, but I like seeing loans outstanding because I know that that loan outstanding represents either me or not borrowing money from somebody Else where I would have. Or it represents cash that I would have spent my own cash. But instead I was able to use the insurance company's money. You know, loans to a bank are an asset, as you know, because they attract a stream of payments. Well, we're bankers now. So what I like to do is exactly what you said. I like seeing the balance of my line because I have a home equity line of credit as well, by the way.

The way I'm structured is completely different than you Parish. But what I do. Well, I shouldn't say it's completely different. It's similar in a lot of ways. But what I do is I'm at a different place with my policy systems. I'll access a large policy loan for my business expenses each month and for my living expenses, and then I access a little bit extra to bring down the balance of the line of credit. So what I do is I actually slap all of it onto my line of credit. I don't really use bank accounts because I have next to no automatic debits every month. I have like three that are strapped to my credit card and two that are in my business account, and that's it. So what I do is I take everything that. All that cash that I would. You know, you'd normally sit in a bank account, but I don't put it in the bank account. I use my line of credit basically as a bank account. So I chunk it all on the line of credit. So that helps. You know, it looks like I put a bunch on the balance so that when the interest is due, my interest is down a little bit. But obviously I'll use some of the line of credit for my living expenses. Right? I use my credit card. I take the money from my line of credit because it came from a policy loan, pay off my credit card, but then the objective is to spend less than what I paid on the line of credit. So I hit some principal. And then after now my income comes in, I don't need the money. I pump all of it right back into my system. So I'm spending less than I'm making, which is obviously good and smart, too. So now let's fast forward to the next month or two. Depends on how large of a loan I access. I hit some on that line of credit principle. Now I smack a bunch more on the line of credit and I use a little bit. And the idea is that I'm hitting principal every month and I'm using less from the line of credit than what I've deposited just like anything else. So that's kind of how I'm doing it. I'm just using it to accelerate, try to save as much interest as I can on the line of credit, pay on some, on principal, and then using some of the line of credit as a tool because I still have it available to pay for my living expenses. But the money came from a policy loan so that when I get paid, I don't need, I don't have any use for that money. I pump it right back in the system. I always joke with people, I say, look, if you saw my bank accounts, you'd think I was broke because all of my money lives in my own system instead of their bank. Right.

No, definitely makes sense. And I'm. I think as I'm building it, it's still not a big enough nest. I can balance it. So probably just starting off, it's. It's gonna be not easy. But once I have enough pool, probably, probably that will recycle it faster, right?

Yeah.

No pool I can use for bigger expenses. Right now I have bigger expenses and smaller pool, which off balance me sometime.

Exactly. That's what I always say to people is like, you know what it is, what it is like we're controlling, I mean, you're putting it, you know, pretty decent premium and you're controlling that much of the banking function that money's working every day. Obviously we have the death benefit there. What I'm excited for, for you specifically is that we're able to back at your policy. So we're able to actually deposit the second year premium much sooner than you normally would have been able to. Right. If we would have just got like bijoux. Now what'll be interesting for you is to, you know, we'll document it. You can look at what your daily cash growth is today. Right. And I'm sure you're aware of like how to sort figure that out, right?

Well, yeah, I can calculate the amount, I guess. I've seen the video too, from.

Yeah. All I do to keep it really simple is because here's the reality of it. This number will increase a little bit tomorrow because of the interest. Right. And this number will increase a little bit tomorrow because of the daily cash growth. But the reality of it is whatever this number is increasing by, so today it's 1603. 82. So we just subtract this number from tomorrow's number and then subtract this number from tomorrow's number and add both of them together. And that would tell you how much you'd have available as a loan if this balance was zero.

Right. Because if this number's going up by whatever it's going up by and it's only reduced by whatever the loan interest is. So we structure the policy, even though I'm going to get all that interest back, we always structure the policy so that your net accessible cash is higher than the interest. Makes it an efficient system. But here's the reason why that's all happening is because this pool the cash value on paid up additions. Here's your paid up additions. A death benefit. So this is these two combined is the total death benefit now. Well, plus the term rider. But now this number is chasing that number.

Right. Because it has to equal by age 100, that's why it's going up. And then this guaranteed cash value, unfortunately what you can't see parish on your side, your client access, you can't see below this line. It's frustrating. We're trying to get them to. I don't understand why they would make that advisor info. But anyway, this is the cash value that's accumulated toward the original death benefit. So every day these two numbers go up and we have access to 90% of the growth. Right. And now what'll be interesting is if you see what your daily cash growth is today when we get to.

July 23rd. So let's say in August at some point, because you're going to deposit premium and you're going to receive your first year dividend, the paid up additions are obviously going to go way up and you and you and I are aging. So that means that the growth on this pool of cash value has to accelerate to stay on track. So if you look at what your daily cash growth is today, I don't know what that number is. Let's say it's $7. Just making that up. It'll be nice to see. Okay, oh, I'm in the second year and now my daily cash growth or my loan availability, that's the main thing that matters. My loan availability now is increasing by $10 a day. So you'll actually see year two, year three, year four, your daily cash growth is going to accelerate because it's just forced efficiency within the system. So that's the beauty of it. By the time September 2023 rolls around.

This year, you'll be in your second year. You'll technically have hit your second year anniversary and you'll be in the third year of the policy, your policy at least. So by then, who knows, the growth will be probably double what it is today? I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter. It's just nice to see. I have that with my wife's policy. Her policy was growing in the first year because of what I'm putting in. It was like $5.30 something cents a day. And now we're in the second year and it's $8.36 a day. So I have, I have one policy that I started on her in 2018 because my health just wasn't where it needed to be. It was growing by 4 bucks a day. Now that policy is growing at 10 bucks a day. Right. It's like just like little engines that could. They just keep getting stronger as time goes on.