Want to Create Wealth? DON'T Ignore Infinite Banking!

Our deep dive into our Nelson Nash's book titled becoming your own banker. And Richard and I are going to have a really good jam session with you today and just share with you a lot of things that Nelson coached us on throughout the years. And this is all in relation to the equipment financing example that we're going to do a deeper dive into today. And it's going to be really exciting. But one of the things that I wanted to ask everybody to do in the chat window, let us know where you're joining us from around the world. Just go ahead and type it in the chat window. Okay, we got Calgary.

Manitoba, Barry, Another Calgary, Ottawa, New Brunswick, Halifax, Baduk, Ontario, Kelowna, Swift Current, Music city, usa, Texas. All right, we got people joining us from across North America here. This is awesome. All right, here's what I want to begin with. I want to share something with you that Nelson did not include in the book, but he wanted everybody to understand. And that's when you look at a policy illustration.

That is not infinite banking. There's a difference between what you're buying versus what you're implementing. What you're buying is a unilateral binding contract, a life insurance policy. What you're implementing is a process. And Nelson would often say that what happens on the illustration.

Is the scene. That's what you can see, the table of values, your total cash value, your total death benefit, your dividends, your paid up additions, all of that. What you do with that tool, what you do with it outside of the policy is the unseen of the infinite banking concept. And that is what we are going to unveil to you in the equipment financing example. The first thing that needs to be understood, that Nelson wanted you to know, is that the life insurance policy itself has a number of financing characteristics. And when you think about a banking system, so not a bricks and mortar bank, when you think of an actual banking system and you have a tool to implement the system, you can change the word equipment financing and you can just replace that with financing all the things I'll need throughout my lifetime. So replace the word equipment and change that in your mind's eye to financing all the things that I will need throughout my lifetime, whatever those things are, you can utilize this process to finance them. And Nelson said, here's what you need to do. You need to begin with a plan. That plan is your policy, or ideally a system of policies with the right life insurance company, ideally a mutual company, and you want that policy structured in such a way where you can capitalize it and you can then begin to utilize that tool to implement the process. The advantage is that when you purchase the policy, you don't have to go and find any captive customers to do your financing business with. The insurance company's already done that for you. All the hired help is already in place. And Nelson was right. He asked the question, where else can you find all of the advantages when you start up any other type of business where all the hired help, all the infrastructure, everything is already in place for you. Your ticket to entry to becoming a co owner is capitalizing the system, paying the premium. And that you shouldn't object to moving more capital through your system. And the equipment financing example is going to illustrate for you what the difference is. If you just let the insurance company itself administer the policy and we show no loan activity at all, let's just see how the insurance company does all on their own, which is pretty good. But let's see how the policy owner's behavior actually influences the outcome. So how much better are the results if we shop at home financially, if we run our banking business through our banking system, let's see what the difference in the outcome is. Rich, are you there with me?

Lock and low, man.

Okay, dude, let's. Let's rock and roll. I'm gonna shut my camera off and my microphone, but I'll jump in to join the jam session as we start going into the example.

Okay, so we're gonna begin. So just so everyone you know who's attending, you may or may not have a copy of Nelson's book. Ideally everyone, if you don't make sure you get a copy of Nelson's book, it's amazing. So I'm gonna bring it up on the screen and I'm gonna jump right to the first example in the equipment financing section. Now for everyone that is familiar with this, this is part four of the book, and it begins on page 51. 51 is where Nelson begins explaining how he's going to set up the example. Talks a little bit more about, of course, the policy owner's advantages of controlling the capacity of the policy contract itself. Then he talks about the money pool and what's happening actually with this particular person who's running a logging business. Now Nelson, when he created this example, he actually had someone in mind. He, he himself ran equipment very similar to what we're going to talk about today. And you know, he's, he's referencing actually his nephew Terry, who basically ran a logging business. And so how Terry could have financed everything in this way if he Implemented Nelson's concept essentially. So we're going to go to equipment financing illustration number one, which is on page 54 of the book. And I'm going to bring that up here right now. All right, let's go screen share.

All right. And let's bring this up on full screen. Hopefully my shortcuts are working today the way that I want them to. There we go. All right, so we're going to go to page Oops 54. So it says Equipment Financing Illustration 1 Jay, you could see that for you yourself there.

Yeah, it's showing up perfectly.

Okay, great. So where I want to begin is I actually want to highlight as we're setting up this example, what is the example based on? So depending on what when you, you got your version of the book. I know my first version of the book, Jay, and yours, they didn't have this box up at top that isolated the setup of the example. So the one I've got on my desk actually doesn't quite match what's, what's here. But this just, you know, is a clarifying amount for people who have the newer version of the book. And it says who is this example based on? So we're looking at a male who is age 30. The type of life insurance policy. So the policy contract is a dividend paying whole life contract with a paid up additions rider selected. So the dividends are going to buy paid up insurance, etc. The original starting death benefit is 1,233,000. And where it says L65 for everyone write down, maybe someone can type it in the chat box here for everybody is life pay to age 65. So what that means is, you know, everything at this time when Nelson wrote this book was based on 100 year lifespan just like it is here in Canada. And this would policy would be fully paid up. No more premiums could possibly go into it after age 65. So the maximum amount of premium that could be funded ended at 65. You couldn't put any more capital in. And Nelson has here preferred non smoker 1499. Let's just call it 15 grand. That is the minimum premium basically or what we would refer to as the base premium. And attempt to type base here with my, my mouse. Probably should use this pen instead, it'd be a little bit easier. So base premium. Okay. And then the paid up additions Rider is 25,000 or what we might say is the flexible premium. So the total premium outlay or the total capacity that this policy can fit, you can put a dollar more in on a per year basis than $40,000 to get this thing operational. Anything you want to jump in and add, Jay?

Yeah, I would, I would just share that. So what Nelson, what he did in showing this example, remember what you see here are a table of values from a policy illustration. And remember what I shared at the onset. What you see here is not the infinite banking concept. It's what we do outside of the illustration that essentially isolates the infinite banking concept, which we're not there yet. But I just wanted to preface that with everybody to show them that Nelson wants to describe to you using this illustration, how the insurance company does all on its own, just administering the contract and let's see how they do.

Yeah, and you know, another way he would phrase that is that, look, you know, if, if you like music, well, we all want to be in the same. You won't want two people who are playing two, you know, different instruments, but they're reading two different sheets of music. And it's going to sound pretty horrible if you have a band and they're all reading from the same sheet of music. They've practiced, they've jammed together, they are all speaking the same tune. You're going to have something glorious. You're going to have some really quality music coming out of that. So this is about Nelson in the book, is setting us up so that we can be reading from the same sheet of music as we add on other layers into the example and actually begin the process of banking and utilizing the financing features to accomplish certain objectives. Okay, so I want to highlight here these columns. So we have net annual outlay. Everything that Nelson did in this, in these examples is shown as net. So we're always looking at the net number on any given year, the start year, the age. We have a loan column. We have cumulative loan, which we'll talk about the dividend earned on the policy each year at the end of the year, on the anniversary date, net cash values. Again, net cumulative net outlay. This is going to be an important column. We're definitely going to be highlighting this quite a bit as we go through our session. So you can see here, year one, he put in 40. Then he put in another 40, another 40 and another 40. So the cumulative net outlay is 160,000. And if you follow that on all the way down the screen, you'll see that that number stays level because we haven't added any additional premium. All the numbers in net outlay are zeros going down because in this example, Nelson wanted again set up that baseline for our reading from the same sheet of music. So in our example, he's only putting in $40,000 a year for four years and then no additional capital is going into the policy. He's going to let the insurance company take care of it from there. And we're going to expand on that a little bit as we go. Another highlight I want to mention is you'll see over in the far column, the net death benefit. Notice how the death benefit began. I'm going to grab a new color here. Let's use red way at the very top. Our Death benefit was 1.2 million. At the end of the first year, that death benefit increased to 1.3. And you'll see it's increasing until it reaches 1684. Then the following year it actually declines. And you'll see that, that it begins to decline repeatedly. Now that has to do with the fact that no additional money or capital is going in as premium, but the premium still must be paid. It has to be funded from somewhere. There is a requirement for $15,000 a year of base premium every year to make sure that this policy continues to operate okay. Otherwise the policy would collapse on itself. So that is happening through a feature that is referred to as premium offset. So what, what this particular individual's basically doing, he's saying, hey, look, I'm going to take this dividend that I'm getting every year and I'm going to have it pay this premium. For me. The premium that's required is 15,000 a year. The dividend is only $6339 a year. So for everyone in the chat box, I think you can guess that we have a bit of a math problem here. The dividend isn't big enough to cover the $15,000 premium. We need to make up that capital difference from some place. Well, the place that it's being made up from is over here with the death benefit. So it's actually going to start surrendering some of this accumulated buckets of death benefit that we've increased, basically effectively selling it back to the life insurance company, pooling the cash component with the dividend to add it, add it together until they have 15 grand so that they continue covering the minimum premium that's required. Jason, anything to add there? Perfect. Yep.

Perfect. So I'll clean this up a little bit, get a lot going on. So just to reiterate, so now our dividend. Previously the dividend was going to help augment and buy more paid up insurance. Now that dividend is coming over here to make sure it can keep this policy in force. And a chunk of this death benefit is being sold off. So the death benefit keeps reducing and reducing and reducing. Now, what you'll notice is if we follow this thing down a few years, something happens at year 17.

In line 17. We can see that the dividend now is big enough that there's enough to actually cover the entire minimum premium. And there's still $634 left. So you'll notice that the death benefit actually begins rising again. And from that point forward, the death benefit continues to climb on an increasing basis because the dividend is paying the minimum premium. And anything over and above that amount continues to go back in and accumulate and help grow the policy death benefit, which also forces the cash value to continue accumulating. So that's effectively what we're seeing in this first example so far. Before I jump down to the lower section J, is there anything you want to tie in and add into this before we carry forward?

Just to simply say that it's the insurance company's responsibility because this policy is a unilateral, binding contract. The insurance company itself is the party to that contract that's responsible for doing everything that Richard is describing here. The policy owner's sole responsibility is to pay the premium. And then when the policy owner exercises the offset option, it's the insurance company's responsibility to make sure that that dividend is being allocated toward offsetting that premium. And the remainder is coming from partial surrender of paid up additions. Once that direction is received by the, as Nelson would refer to it, by the gophers, you're hired help, it is their responsibility to do it. So from that point forward, if all the policy owner did was say, look, I'm hands off at this point, insurance company, you go ahead and administer this contract.

The reason that you see in that dividend column, those dividends growing in dollars and there's no additional outlay coming from the policy owner doesn't mean that the minimum required premium isn't still being paid. There's still a contribution to the net earnings of the insurance company because there's no money leaving the insurance company's money pool. When a dividend gets paid, the policy owner has the right to receive that as cash. If the policy owner did that, what happens if you have $1 in the money pool and the policy owner's dividend is 25 cents and the policy owner takes out that 25 cent dividend, how much is left over in the money pool? Rich less capital, 75 cents. So what the policy owner is doing is saying, don't give me any money out of the pool. Keep the money in the pool and keep it circulating. Keep that money multiplying. This is just an accounting entry. The dividend goes to offset the premium. There's a partial surrender of paid up additions, but there's no money leaving the insurance company's money pool. The insurance company still continues to use that 15,000 every single year to contribute more to the net earnings of the insurance company. And the primary factor in calculating the dividend yield in dollars is based on the contribution principle. So this policy is still contributing to the net earnings even though you see the net annual outlay as zero. That's the outlay from the policy owners wallet, not the outlay from the money pool into the policy itself. So important to clarify that because it's a question that comes up. It's like, well, how is it possible that he's still receiving dividends? He's not paying premium, the premium's still getting paid.

He's still an owner. And owners are entitled through the method of ownership that we're talking about participating whole life to receive dividends when they're payable. And that net annual outlay column, that third column in that column really speaks a great deal to policy owner behavior. We're going to touch more on that as we go through the example. Now before I jump down to the bottom of the page, I do want to make another connection here. You mentioned questions, Jay. Speaking of questions, we're probably going to get a lot as we go through this today. There's an amazing feature with zoom called a Q and a box. So you'll notice that the wherever your zoom controls are, you'll see like your microphone, your camera, variety of other things. There's a chat box, so go ahead and have that open so you can, you can carry on a conversation with everyone. But any questions that you have, please make sure that you are putting them in the question and answer box so our team can help tackle those. And then at the end of the session we can tackle them as well. Now going back to our example here, one other key highlight that I want to use. I'll pick the yellow highlighter here. Notice how the cash value is accumulating. And even in year five when no additional premium went in, the cash value still went up approximately $10,000. And that happened again the following year and the following year and the following year. So even though no new outlay of premium went into the insurance company, the cash had to continue Increasing. And the reason it's increasing is because it must equal the eventual death benefit at age 100. That's a contractual feature. So very important to understand. So scrolling down a little bit lower, I'm going to bring us down to effectively line 36, age 65. Now remember, this particular policy was set up the way that Nelson did it was partly for his. The way he wanted to build the example is what's referred to as a life paid age 65. So at 65, at that age, you know, come 6, age 66, there was no premium that could possibly be paid. If you try to send a premium in, the insurance company wouldn't take it, they would send it right back to you. Okay, the policy was maxed out for what premium it could contain. Now we see a bit of a summary here. We can see what the dividend was in that year. 72,000. We have a total cash value of 1.5 million and a death benefit of 2.4. Now what I'm going to do is I'm going to draw your attention. I'm actually going to scoot right down to the bottom here and we're going to notice how, you know Nelson, Nelson always said, hey, this guy, we went all the way to age 65, you know, and would you believe it, he didn't die. Let's let him live for a bit longer and let's let him take a passive income, but we'll kill him off somewhere around age 85. Okay, so what he wanted to highlight in his criteria for setting up this example was that the death benefit, the net death benefit at age 65 and at age 84 were approximately the same. They were relatively in the same zone. So that's how he designed and he used that as the barometer to determine what is a level amount of consistent passive income that this individual can take out of their system or receive by way of tax free loans or what have you from the system on a repetitious basis year after year until such a time as they kick the bucket. So that's how he kind of made this. Now he said, look, if the guy, if this, this guy or gal wanted to take 100,000, could they do it? Sure, they could do it, but they would start eating in to this far column on the other side and the death benefit would start declining. If they want to take 200 grand a year, well, maybe it would decline very quickly and they would eventually be in a position where they wouldn't be able to continue doing that. What if they didn't need 92,000. What if they only needed 60,000? Well then the death benefit would continue rising and be much, much higher for a tax free benefit to leave to the next generation. Okay, any add on points there, Jay?

Yeah. Take a look at the total outlay. It's 160k right?

160K. I'm just going to highlight that for everybody. So this column in green is the total outlay of what this person put in. 40 grand a year for four years. 160,000. No additional capital from the policy owner went into this contract.

And so did he recover all of his outlay?

Yeah, you bet. He got it back here basically two.

Years in, plus another 1.588 million more. And then he went on to leave 2.407 million tax free to the next generation. So the fundamental truth is your money must reside somewhere.

So would Nelson ever suggest.

That somebody stop capitalizing their system after four years?

He definitely wouldn't. And in fact he if we get there, the last Example in this illustration 6 indicates putting more capital in and what the impact of that decision is.

So here's what advisors do. All due respect to all of these wonderful great advisors out there across North America.

Please understand we've been around the block a bit 16 years specializing in this process.

This is what advisors commonly do when they're, when they want to sell and place a participating dividend paying whole life insurance policy. One of the features that they tout is how quickly you can stop paying the premium.

That would be the equivalent of you and me owning a Safeway grocery store together and me telling you how quickly you can stop shopping at our store.

You're going to need food for the rest of your lifetime, so you might as well go buy it from Walmart. After four years, Rich, there's no need shopping at our store anymore. You still, you still own the Safeway, but yet you're excited that now you can go do all your business with Walmart. This is something that again I'm speaking to advisors out there in the community. You need to get a grasp on this. This is not about highlighting the features and benefits of a product.

This is about recognizing the fundamental truth that your money must reside somewhere.

If we stopped having our money reside here after four years, did we still do pretty damn good?

Yeah, we did okay.

But if we continued to have our money reside there, would the results be exponentially better? They have to be because of all the embedded contractual guarantees inside of the tool and the fact that you co own that warehouse of wealth and so it's so important to get that across because when advisors start learning about this concept.

They drift to what they know, which is product. Show me how to sell more of this product. I think I got a pretty good handle on it. And I think that if I tell my client, you only have to pay the premium for four years, you can do exactly what Nelson showed in the book. Look, it's right there in the book for four years.

How he wants you to do it. This is how he suggested in the book.

This is not how he wants you to do it. And so we got to make sure that we're, you know, helping our advisors out there in, in the, in the industry to understand and get a grasp on that. If you're just placing a product, of course, talk to them about its earliest offset eligibility.

Why not?

Because they're not implementing a process. They're buying something from you. There's a difference between what someone's buying and what they're implementing. And Nelson would have never encouraged anybody to stop putting premium into a policy. So let's start changing the way we think and asking the right question, how long can we pay it for? Not how soon can we stop.

In fact, we had Nelson in Kelowna in 2014, Jay, and he made a specific comment. Literally, he was about to leave and go back home. And he has a wife, Mary, there, there was a premium coming up on mary that was $7,000. And he says, well, why on earth wouldn't I pay that $7,000? The dividend is more than $7,000. All the money, if I ever need it, the money's there. I just get it back out. There's no reason not to pay the premium. I don't need the money. What is it going to do? It's going to increase the death benefit. It's going to increase the tax free capacity. When Mary goes, she's going to probably go before me or after me, which is, which is precisely what will take place. So he recognized that he was, he didn't need the capital. He was setting up a bigger and greater future for everyone that he cared about simply by paying the premium. And if he needed money, he could get to it with no restrictions.

Think about the grocery store example. Nelson said, look, if you owned a grocery store, would you complain about having an extra shelf to put more product on to sell to more captive customers? That's called capitalization. That's called never being or objecting to the opportunity to pay additional premium. That's the, that's put injecting more capital into the system. And if you don't need it, the insurance company has plenty of other places to put that capital to work, to multiply it for the benefit of you and for everyone who co owns the company, it's brilliant.

More importantly, they have to put it work. They have no choice in the matter. It has to because they're, they're a custodian of that capital for the policy ownership. Now, we're going to go back to the example in a second and I want to zing in on something that you isolated. Yeah, again, we're talking about setting up the foundation of everything that we're going to do. We're going to build on from here. So this was the baseline example, as Nelson indicated. So what we looked at is the insurance company did all the work other than the policy owner putting in the first four premiums and he did nothing else. There was no financing, there was no purchasing vehicles, there was no added capital. Yeah, when we go to the next example, we're going to talk about financing one truck, which again, that financing could be anything. So we're going to talk about the Nelson's example, using equipment for a business. But in your mind's eye, as you're listening to us, imagine any additional financing that you might have in your own life and how that relates to your own scenario. And we're going to talk about what happens when more capital actually goes into the policy and see the difference. So when I bring this back up, what I really want people to zone in on. And in fact, if you got a notepad handy, you're taking notes. Capture this number right here. At age 65, the cash value is 1,000,517. 320. In fact, if any of our teammates want to just capture that, just so we have it available and you know, the death benefit to basically 2.4 million, that's with only 160,000 of capital outlay going in into the policy. So now we're going to go to example two. But before we get there, we have to kind of understand a little bit about what's going on with this particular individual. So this example again is based on Nelson's nephew Terry at a logging business. He had four logging trucks, two tractors and a tree shear. He was paying $16,000 a month in payments on all this equipment. Is this a heavy amount of financing for a business? Well, a business like this, not really. It's pretty standard. And today, of course, with inflation, it'll be a lot bigger number, but effectively almost $200,000 a year was going to someone else's. All the financial energy for all that equipment was going to someone else's bank, and it was leaving the business owner's control repeatedly. Okay, now, when we've got the money pool up here, Jay, before I move on to go to the next example, is there anything you want to add on about the money pool before we move on?

Yeah, I think that, you know, Nelson did a great job explaining it, you know, looking through page 52 and basically just describing to say, look, the insurance company.

Is lending capital to these financing entities that are lending capital to business owners. So the whole essence of it was, why don't I just take the middleman out of the equation altogether and become the captive customer for that capital by becoming a policy owner. And the accountant was telling Terry, hey, take a look at all the equity that you're building up in your equipment, because once every four years, the odometer on that, on that logging truck is pretty high, and it's time to add another one. It's time to replace it. And so he says, hey, look, you're building up a ton of equity in your equipment. And Nelson's teaching moment was, you're building the equity up in the wrong place. You should be building up the equity inside of the entity that enables you to control the financing function as it relates to your business. That's where you should be accumulating the equity. And so that's what we're going to dive into now.

Yeah, and I, I think that the point that you made, I don't want that to be missed. So the life company has to put money to work. Well, you know, Nelson would say that he's never, he'd never seen the financials of an insurance company that hadn't basically placed blocks of money or read either. They're selling wholesale blocks of money to retailers, finance companies. In this example, he talks about Associates Finance, who's going to finance his logging truck. And they're just putting a lift on the money, and then they're collecting the spread, and then they're making a payment back to the insurance company. They're getting a payment from the consumer, and then they're giving the insurance company money back. So the insurance company has a cash flow and the finance company is just collecting the jelly in the sandwich, as Nelson would say. Okay, so let's go down to. I believe it's page.

Don't forget the Martians.

Yeah, we'll get to the margins. We're going to go to exhibit one here, which Nelson talks About. So this is the financing package for this particular truck. So we're going to start off with the lowest cost item that he had operating in the business. He had four trucks. These are Peterbilt trucks. Now this is based on a 1984 Peterbilt truck. The price of the vehicle was 66 grand. He had some trade in value from the previous truck. You know, he had it for four years, he trades it in. So he still got to pay in order to pay out the balance of what he owes. $52,600 or that would be the financing amount to finance. So this is the paperwork for Associates Finance to actually go finance an actual truck. Okay, now in this case when we scroll down to the bottom, here we go, we see the principal balance, so the 52,600, the financing amount. And then we see the time price differential. In other words, this is the interest charge. This is how much money in interest dollars was going to go to Associates Finance over the entire four year period. The amount of cash flow that would be paid over four years out of the business's books onto the books of some third party bank was $72,096. That was the flow of financial energy leaving the logging business going to the bank.

Nelson said the 19,496, that was the jelly in the sandwich. That's what we want to recapture.

That's right. That's our goal, our focus. Given the example that we're looking at now, this is a 48 payment for four year payments of 1500 and $2 a month, which 1500 bucks a month is basically 18 grand a year. So we're going to see that number come up in the next illustration. 18,000 a year. And we really want to isolate here and be, be very mindful that the financing charge is basically 19,500 bucks. Now this is what's really interesting. Nelson also wanted to use this as an example to help people understand what was interest volume all about. Volume, not the interest rate. Well, if you take the 19,496 and you divide that into the 72,000, you end up with 27, 27%. That's the volume, in other words, of every dollar paid. The 72,000 is every dollar paid over a four year time frame. The interest cost, 27 cents of every single dollar ended up being the actual amount of interest. So volume is the physical dollars of interest over a period of time that's being paid, not the interest rate that's being charged. The rate is a charge on a declining balance of Money, the volume is the mounting of the money that's going to walk into someone else's profit category that's not yours.

So generally, in addition to what you just said, if you reference page 52, which if you stay here on your exhibit, Rich. But for all of our viewers and listeners, if you reference page 52, Nelson says Terry is making a so. So living in the logging business and the banking business is living well off of him.

That's what Richard just described here. So again, important to remind yourself the more you see infinite banking concepts, the more you will see you didn't see. And so when you read this example, read it very carefully because every future time that you read it, you're going to pick up on something that you didn't pick up on the first time you went through it.

It's funny that you mentioned that because, you know, this is at the point where, you know, Terry, who's gotten his logging business, he realizes that he got 16 grand a month walking out the door. You know, that would probably hurt if you're in business, and that would be painful scenario when you realize someone else is getting all the money and not a whole lot is left in your corporate bank account. So he says, hey, Uncle Nelson, can I do business in my place? Nelson says, sure, Terry the banker can do whatever he wants as long as he's got the capital.

That's exactly how he said it. And then he all right, all right.

What does the insurance company have to do? Well, the insurance company's got to lend the money out anyway. But Terry is the first one in line to access whatever could be lent out of his policy system. So whatever the cash value is, that's his. That's his capital, that's his equity. He can access up to 100% of whatever can be lent from that system on demand, at his, at his call, his beck and call as the first one to access it before the insurance company puts it to work someplace else.

Important to remember, in addition to what Richard just said, it's important to remember cash value is not money. So again, I'm addressing, you know, everyone who's viewing and listening. Cash value is not money. Cash value is equity in the contract. The money is already circulating. It's already being multiplied. It's not stagnant money that's sitting inside a little safe at the insurance company with your policy number on it. Cash value is not money. It's collateral capacity. If you intend to take advantage of the loan provision that guarantees you access to real money when you need it, and you use your equity as collateral for the loan.

Nice. So let's. With that in mind, I think it's. I think we're ready to jump to illustration number two in the book, which shows up on. I believe it's page 54. Yeah. Correct. Page 54.

59. No, sorry. 54.

Yeah.

Forgive me.

No, you're. You're right. You're right.

Is it 59?

59. You're correct, yeah.

59.

All right, let me bring that up.

Okay, so here we've got equipment financing, illustration number two. And again, what we want to highlight here is that basically, for the first four years, everything that happens in equipment financing illustration 2 is identical to what happens in example 1. So no change for the first four years. Everything's the same. Put capital in, put capital in, put capital in. There's no capital being utilized here. Now, it's funny that I just kind of want to circle back to an earlier part of Nelson's book. And we mentioned this on our last webinar. Jay Nelson spent a lot of time walking through human conditions. He wanted us to understand Parkinson's Law. The reason that one of the reasons why he's only showing. He's not showing any activity happening in the first four years isn't because this person couldn't do that. There is cash value in year one, in year two, in year three, there is opportunity to put things to work. He wanted people to understand if you can focus your energy and not touch money for a period of time. Show me someone who will do that, put money away on a repetitious basis for four to seven years without touching it, and I'll show you someone who's conquered Parkinson's law. He wanted people to get head wrapped around the knowledge. You have to first build up a reservoir of capital before you destroy it. Okay? And if you don't have the right mindset in place, you could take the best business in the world and you could kill it, just like they did in the First national bank of Midland, Texas, which is an earlier example in Nelson's book. We won't get into that today. Okay. So here we start to see some different things taking place. In year five, we see that there's a negative 34,600 in cumulative outlay. This is shorthand, as Nelson would say. So there's a loan that's being taken for $52,600, which is the price of the truck. Right. Remember, he had a trade in value for the truck. He had to come up with 52,6 in order to pay out the remaining balance of the truck. But he's going to immediately start making payments every month of fifteen hundred dollars a month. Fifteen hundred times twelve is eighteen thousand. So 52 comes out and 18 goes in. You have the shorthand of that is negative 34, 6. So the, the yearly outlay is actually a negative amount because he took more out than he put in in that year. Is everybody with me? I want to see a why in the chat box if we can. If everyone's following me on what, what we got going on here with, with Nelson.

Can I add to what you just said, Rich? So important to recognize too that the policy loan, the interest that accrued on the policy loan balance was accruing at a rate of 8%. The actual rate that the loan was being repaid at was just above 15%. So we should all understand that, that if the insurance company is accruing simple interest at 8%. But the banker Terry.

The bank owner Terry, the borrower Terry's company.

Terry controls the repayment schedule of the policy loan. So he set up an amortization schedule where if you determine the rate of interest, it would actually be more than 15%. That means that the policy loan at the insurance company is going to be repaid faster.

I just thought I'd clarify that.

Yeah, perfect. And so here we can see in the following years, you can see $18,000. That's what's going back in. So he continues making his four year payment schedule the exact same payment schedule he was going to give Associate Finance. No change, no difference. He's not paying any more or certainly any less than what he was already willingly paying to the other guys. Okay? Now the loan balance comes down and the result that we see is that he, hey, in year nine he finances another truck. Year 13, he finances a truck. Year 17, he finances a truck, and so on and so forth. So he continues doing and repeating that process every four years the same way he was going to do. In other words, nothing changed. His business, his business practices didn't change. His usage of a need of vehicles didn't change either along that time frame. Here's the really important thing I want to highlight and make sure everyone understands. Now when I come over here and we look at cumulative net outlay, it was $160,000 at the end of year four. But when we look at the end of year eight, when he finishes paying off the very first truck, the cumulative net outlay is 179 4. Well, if you take 1794 and you subtract it from 160, don't you end up with $19,400.

Thoughts, Jay?

That's the jelly in the sandwich right there.

So what I want everyone to really pay attention to and highlight on this, the cumulative net outlay went up. In other words, more capital went into the policy. He paid the extra interest that the associate's finance would have charged. He made a commitment as the policy owner and an honest banker to make the same payment back in his system. And the excess amount as that loan got paid off quicker, that excess amount went into premium because there was room to pay premium inside of this contract. Now, Nelson would say, he would say, just make sure it gets back into a policy in the system that has the room for it. If this one didn't have any room for premium because it was already funded, go get another one. Essentially. So he's, he's harnessing the potential of that money flow, that financial energy that was walking out the door, out the door, out the door. And now he's harnessing it in the door in his own warehouse that he owns and controls that is being managed very effectively by the insurance company he's a co owner of.

And he would say, understand where the money is flowing to. Now this is again such a fundamental understanding of the infinite banking concept. A fatal error in thinking is that it has something to do with interest rates. It's all a matter of where the money is flowing to and who that money is being put to work for and for how long. So now, if we summarize up to this point, Rich, did Terry achieve the objective? He got the truck. Objective achieved. Did he change the cash flow of his company?

Not at all, not one iota.

What he did is he changed the process of where the money is flowing to and who it's being put to work for and for how long. The jelly in the sandwich, that jelly in the sandwich is now additional capital that's going into the cash register of his own banking business. This is not money that's going back a portion of that's going back to the general fund of the insurance company as simple interest on the policy loan. But the additional, as you described it so accurately, is premium that's going directly into the policy, that's not going into the general fund of the insurance company. So understanding your money must reside somewhere. So we didn't change the objective, we achieved it. But now we put Terry in a position of total and absolute control.

There's another thing that needs to be identified here, Jay. Terry didn't invest any money. There's no investment taking place here. Not at all. There is simply the process of banking and the control over that process being harnessed in an efficient warehousing location, which just so happens to be managed by a reputable insurance company.

And then can we go to age 65 on that illustration?

Yeah. Before we jump there, I want to highlight something else. And you know, Nelson used to say, hey, look, Terry, you're making a so, so living in the logging business, but the banker's making a heyday living off of you. And he. The other thing I think people need to understand in this example, you know, $40,000 for a lot of people can be like a lot of money. We've heard that comment. You know, certainly in earlier years, we heard that from a lot of folks. But this is very, this is very, very reasonable for a logging business that's spending almost $200,000 a year just on payments, $40,000 a year of some of their profits set aside of their retained earnings for four years. To build up a reservoir is absolutely peanuts in reference to the cash flow of a business like this. So everything has to be put in some kind of relevancy. Okay? So recognize that this, there's relevancy here, and you just have to draw that relevancy to your. To your own life.

Okay, so you want it. So before we just zip all the way down, I want to kind of do this slowly, Jay. I just want to isolate. So if we, if we look at those periods every time that he finances a truck, we can see here that again, the accumulation of those values. Oops, let me go down to here, actually, so you can see how these values keep building up and building up and building up at the end of each basically financing period, Every single time that they're done financing a truck, we have a higher accumulation of the cumulative net outlay. So now when we get down to the bottom of the page and we go to the same line, 36 again, it's a life paid of 65. Nothing's changed. We can see that the cumulative net outlay isn't $160,000. It's actually $315,000. So, you know, for anyone here who wants to do the third grade math, if we take a Nelson would say the third grade arithmetic.

315,000, minus the original 160,000 that we had in example one, the initial premiums that we put in, we're left with a difference here of 155,200. In other words, 155, 200 is the additional capital or the representation of equivalent interest that would have went out the door to someone else's bank that's now been harnessed inside of this insurance contract because there was room to put the money there. If this policy didn't have the room to put the money because he kept finding the premiums for 40 grand a year, he could go get a brand new policy that would equivalently fit $155,000 a year over that same, you know, 30 year period of time. The $150,000 would have been very similar.

Yeah, the $155,200 is the interest that he paid. And he made an additional half a million bucks just by shopping at home, by shopping in his own grocery store. Because the cash value when the insurance company just administered the contract all on their own and there was no loan activity or additional premium being paid, the total cash value was only 1,517,320 and the death benefit was only 2.406 million.

So who made out better here? Whose behavior impacted that? Was it the behavior of the life insurance company partially because they put the money to work that he paid in, but it was his behavior? The policy owner's behavior is far more critical than the behavior of the life insurance company. This is the evidence of that. That's what Nelson was trying to get across. Your behavior is far more critical than the behavior the life insurance company, they did pretty good administering it on their own. But Terry created an even better outcome because he changed his behavior. Isn't that good?

It's great. And in fact, I want to add one more piece to that. Jay, imagine that. I'd like to add something. So 155k is the extra amount the policy owner put in. And the difference between example one and example two is like you said, it's about 500 grams. $471,000. Now I want to see in the chat box here. Who here would trade 155k over a lifespan to guarantee that you have 471,000 more capital to work with for the rest of your life than and or leave tax free behind to the people you love and care about? So go ahead and type a type of Y or an N in the chat box and let's see what everyone would would do on our call here. I see an every day and twice on Sundays there. Thanks for that, Calvin. Appreciate it. So it looks like most everyone would agree that it's okay to trade 155 if you know you're going to get 471 on the back end. Oh, and by the way, you get to utilize the capital the entire time that you're doing it and the other life that you need.

Exactly. And Nelson said what you also did is you took all the financial energy away from Associate Finance and you redirected that financial energy back into your own system. Your money must reside somewhere. What better place to have it reside than here? That's what Nelson would have asked you had he been on this webinar. He would have asked you that question. What better place is there to have your capital reside than here?

Now, there's another thing that you mentioned, Jay. Before we hopped on the call, you wanted to isolate the dividends and the impact here. And I think this is a good time to bring that up. So in example one, and I don't think people will have that in reference point, so pick a year that you want to look at and then I will go back to example one and then we'll bring up the. Bring it up here too as well.

Go to year 36.

Year 36.

Okay, so here's illustration one. So in year 36 we can see that the dividend in, in the first example was 71,009, 42. Okay, so everyone capture that. Maybe someone could type it in the chat box just so everyone could see 71,009 42. And then we're going to go and zip back to illustration 1.

Or sorry, illustration to my apologies and an illustration to the dividend is now $95,071. So we have a 24,000, almost a $25,000 increase in dividend. Now the insurance company, so the dividend scale didn't change the management of the dividend, the people, the president of the insurance company, they didn't say, oh, you know what, we need to make sure old Terry's policy does a little bit better. He's financing trucks. There was no conversation about Terry's policy at all. So nothing changed at the insurance company level and how they managed and did anything. The only thing that impacted that $25,000 increase in dividend was Terry's behavior. What he did had a direct and measurable, directly measurable impact on what the insurance company's performance was relative to his contract.

And the reason is that premium and.

Loan repayment.

Are net contributors to the earnings of the life insurance company that you co own. The greater your contribution to the net earnings, the greater your share of the divisible surplus generated. So again, two different tracks.

Here we have.

The audience of who Nelson wrote this book for, which is the general public, and he didn't write it for life insurance agents, advisors. And then we have life insurance agents who outside of this book get all wrapped around the axle of dividend scale interest rates. Nelson said, change your behavior, change the outcome regardless of the rate. I'll say that again. Change your behavior, change the outcome regardless of the rate, as evidenced by what you see here. Isn't that good?

Yeah, he, he always referenced, do you remember when he would say, you know, when you get questions like that, especially from advisors, it's like that's the same thing as walking into the grocery store when you went to go pick up, you know, buy some steaks for dinner and you, you walk in the door and you say, oh geez, how much money is that cash register person over there working for? Oh, how about that meat manager on the back? How much money does that guy make? And like nickel and diamond over stuff that just doesn't matter. You just want to know what the price of the meat is so you can go home and cook dinner.

That's right.

Major, majoring in the minors. You know, going back to our example, what's really interesting here is again, here's what Nelson, here's how Nelson would state this. He says all that's happening is that incrementally, incrementally, we are putting back more capital, more capital into the policy that will accommodate it. So key thing is more capital, which is premium. Premium is a representation of capital and that a policy has to accommodate it. So if a policy doesn't accommodate it because you've already paid the premium for that year, or there's no more premium available, as an example, maybe you had a 20 pay policy and it's fully funded. Well, all you need is another contract. You just need another insurable body. You need to convert some term insurance. You need to be an honest banker. You have to deploy that capital back into your system. If you're following Nelson's mindset and his rules, his golden rules, that's what this is all about. By being an honest banker, this individual Terry, he did not steal the piece. He didn't go at the back door, say, oh well, I can get a better deal. So I'm going to make lower payments and I'm going to improve the cash flow of my business so that I can go spend more money on, you know, at Disneyland anyways, I'm going to be an honest banker so that I, I increase the future of what everything happens in, in this business, the financing business. For all of my future tomorrows.

And then Nelson would have chimed in right now and he would have asked one question.

Do you think Dave Ramsey understands any of this stuff?

That's true. You wouldn't. You would ask that question? Yes.

So, you know, to summarize this example, I want to highlight a couple more quick things. Now we already talked about this in our first iteration, notice at age 65, the death benefit is about 3.1 million. And at age 85, it's roughly 3.1 million. So again, Nelson set up this criteria. This is how he wanted to display things. He wanted the death benefit to be virtually the same at the point he stopped putting capital in and he stopped running his logging business to be basically the same as when anticipated death was going to show up. That's how he picked and dictated the passive income that was here. Here's the other thing that Nelson, he would beat people over the head about this a little bit with taking to the woodshed is like this idea of retirement's got to go. Stop using that word in that language. That language isn't there to support you. Passive income is okay. Passive income is money that shows up without you having to do anything else for it. It just boom, it's there. So he's referencing passive income here. He's not referencing stopping your ability to be productive in the world and in society and doing things of value. So he just did not fundamentally believe in the word retirement. Now here's, here's another question that Nelson would ask. He says, tell me, why, pray tell, does this young man need a qualified retirement plan?

I'd love to see in the chat box if this guy can generate just by financing one truck. He's, by the way, he's got four of them and he's got some other equipment too. Just by financing one truck, he could create a passive income stream plus a big tax free benefit to leave his family. And he didn't have to go and seek permission or deal with anyone else's rules except his own rules. Why does he need to put money into an RSP or 401k or any other equivalent tax qualified plan?

Then he would say, you don't need to play their game.

Because you're the banker.

Banker makes the rules.

Perfect. So let's, I mean, I think we've summarized example, this example pretty, pretty closely. Should we jump to the next one, Jay?

Yeah, let's do that.

All right, so here is when we actually look at doing two trucks. So this is illustration number three. Illustration number three is on I believe it's page 60. Yes, 60. So the purpose of this illustration is to show doing two trucks through the system. So everything up to line four, just like our previous examples, is the same, no change. The only difference now is the annual outlay shifts. So we've got double the cost of a truck coming out and double the payments. 18 grand times two is 36,000. So you can see he's being an honest banker, putting in fifteen hundred dollars a month for two trucks right back into the system. And then every four years he's repeating that process the same way he did before. The only difference is he just financing two trucks instead of financing one. Same premise applies. I really want people to recognize and see here and observe. When we go from 160 in cumulative outlay year four to year eight, we're now one, almost, almost 200 grand. So roughly $40,000 of additional capital or interest has gone into that system. Okay, so again, this is on page 60 of Nelson's book on the physical, in the physical book, if you have it, oops. Click the button there real quick. Let me go back. There we go. So, oops. And that is also a pin move. So the other thing that we want to isolate here, I think we can just pretty much shift all the way down to line 65. At this point, Jay is what's, what's changed and what's different. Well, he finishes financing the last vehicle. His cash value number is substantially different, and so is the cumulative net outlay number. So in the, in the last example, when he financed one truck at line 36, the cumulative net outlay was $315,200. Now it's 4, $7,400 substantial increase. In other words, if we take 470 and.

We subtract 160 of original capital from the baseline example, he's contributed $310,400 more capital. This is the interest over two trucks of financing that he was able to re energize the financial energy back into his own capitalization system so that he can now reallocate that to passive income and all the future things that he wants to do. Something really interesting about this, I want to tie in here, Jay. It doesn't show up in the example, but there's a statement that Nelson makes. And you know, maybe I'm jumping the gun and bringing it up early, but he talks about on page 58.

There.

Can be even further improvements in the performance of the system. Just consider at his age 66, he might sell all of his Equipment to someone just starting out in the logging business and make a deal with him to finance all of the future needs for equipment when he has to replace each item. After all, he has over three point, you know, in the example, he's looking at the last example, but in this example he's got $2.5 million of capital to work with. So sure, he can create a passive income here of 150 grand a year just using this system, but what are the other opportunities that are available to him? What about what could he get for selling the business? What could he get for ongoing financing? Because he's created a whole business structure and could that be passed on as continuity to his heirs more so than just the tax free death benefit by teaching his kids how to grow a business? Yeah.

I would say again to, to all of our viewers, you need to rethink your thinking and you can do this inside of your own family banking system. So when you get to a point where you're at that age when you say, you know what, I want to spend my time doing other things, I want more freedom of time, I, I want to go and do other things, you can take a look at all the accumulated value in your aquarium and you can begin or continue financing the needs that family has. They're going to drive around in cars, they're living in property, they may want to acquire companies or grow their existing business. Every single person in your family has a much greater need for finance than they will ever have a need for death benefit. And so when you build that pool.

You think of what Nelson's showing you in the equipment financing example. I want you to replace that in your thinking with the family banking system. And you can improve the outcome even more considerably if you become a source of financing for other family members and other captive customers. Again, think about the grocery store example. Everyone needs to eat. While in your case, you become both the buyer and the seller of the very same goods, money. And you've got a whole group of captive customers, family and your business when you go to exit it someday. So all you people on the webinar who are business owners, you're going to exit your business someday. And when you do, why not maintain an ongoing, ready, accessible source of financing for the buyer of your company to say, look, not only do you get a great business that's in profit because I took such great care of it, but you also have a ready access source of financing for all your future equipment in whatever business you're in. Does that put you in a Great position at the negotiating table.

It certainly creates more value for the buyer.

The other thing is that you're, you're going to exit your business voluntarily or involuntarily.

If it's involuntarily, someone's going to have to pay and take, you know, pay for the employees. Keep that thing running until it can be shut down. What I liquidated, whatever it is, you're going to leave behind a big fat giant mess. Someone's got to clean it up, probably your spouse, probably your business partner, and they're probably going to fight over it. But, you know, if a big fat chunk of tax free money shows up, it makes an awful lot of difference to help solve those big fat problems. And the people you care about, the people that are running your business for you, your employees, your staff, et cetera, you have the ability to help them keep, prevent preparing for their, you know, taking care of their family as well by being a responsible person. So there's so much more beyond an illustration. When you really start cracking this open and seeing what's really, truly possible. Now, going back to the book, I'm actually going to skip up a little bit. I want to go to. This is page 58. Now on page 58, this is where he, you know, I just referenced that example of like, you know, increasing the performance here. Talking about, you know, creating another business by additional financing. But going down just a little bit further, there's this very important piece here that we want people to understand and we've already stated, we've already talked about it. This is a footnote that in my opinion is probably the most commonly overlooked piece in every single page of Nelson's book. This one little bullet here, I believe, is the number one thing that gets in people's brains to have them misinterpret or misunderstand when Nelson is fundamentally trying to teach us. Jay, would you concur with me on that?

I would concur with you all day long. And I would, I would say too, that one, once you get to that, I, I know where you're going with this, but once you get there, if we reference the illustration again, we can point something out really important to everybody that Nelson did not write in the book.

Perfect. So this, this piece, if you have the physical copy of the book and flip to page 58, please. If you have your physical copy, I want you to circle, highlight, make a note. Here's one of the things that I do with my book. I'm happy to share with everybody, you know, and my Book is getting pretty messy these days. But I actually started writing down dates. You know, I start marking down dates when a new idea or observation or piece of awareness came to me because I wanted to start charting my own progression in my own learning to some degree. So feel free to do that. Mark down the date of when this really connected with you, or you recognize that this piece in the book was here. But actually the interest. And again, it's in air quotes. Nelson loved air quotes. So do I. Is not really interested. Is additional premium or capital that has been paid into the policy that equals the interest that was being paid to the finance company. There's misstatements, misconceptions about infinite banking and how you're paying yourself interest. No, you're not paying yourself interest. You're paying yourself the equivalent of interest that would go to some other person or some other entity, and you're harnessing that interest as premium outlay in a policy within your system, a policy that's under your purview of ownership and control. I don't care who the body is, if it's your spouse, if it's you, if it's your business, if it's a business partner, if it's a key employee, if it's your kids, if you got a policy which you have it on everybody ideally, and you get them as you go, you build as you go. One of those policies probably has some room for premium. Maybe two of them do. Great. Fill it up when you're paying yourself extra interest. If you just finished paying the premium and you have to wait 12 months to get it in there, fine. Make sure you get the money into premium by being an honest banker. Don't steal the peas and go out the back door.

Very good points. And what Nelson shared with us, he didn't want to confuse the reader, but what Nelson did is he.

He was taking basically dividend surrenders and using that to pay the actual policy loan interest.

I literally had just had that note on here to not forget to mention.

So I'll say that again so that everybody has clarity. He didn't want to confuse the reader. So he's not going to introduce all of the.

Additional elements technically of what's going on. He wants you to understand the process. But what he did say is that he was using dividend surrenders to cover the simple interest that had accrued on the policy loan. And he was.

The equivalent of interest that he would have paid to associate finance the jelly in the sandwich. He was using that outlay to pay premium because he knew that by doing that.

His behavior would create an even better outcome for the policy.

In terms of cash value accumulation.

Collateral capacity and the net effect on what his income would be at passive income time. He knew that it would all be better if he just changed his behavior. And so.

So important to point that out because he didn't, he didn't say that in the book. And in fact he wished that if he could have released another version of becoming your own banker before he graduated, he would have taken all the illustrations out of the book.

That's true statement. Now you wanted to highlight the bullet, the interest to premium bullet. I mean in one of the examples, do you want to, where do you want me to go to isolate that?

Well, I think we, I think we got it across.

Net outlay column is where you can see it.

Exactly.

Yeah. Now in, in that example, I mean as we, as we look at moving, I mean we can break it down here a little bit more in the, in the next example. So we're going to shift to illustration four, which is where he's going to finance three trucks. And there is something that's a little bit interesting to see here. It's very minor, but it is something that you know, again, Nelson would have pointed out. So here if we look at the, in year five, the net annual outlay, it's obviously increased and the repayment amount has increased because now we're looking at three trucks. So, so that's what's going on here. We're doing, doing three trucks. Of course, each truck is 52,000. I think it's 52, 6. I get my right on the math, Jay. 52 6. Pretty sure that's correct. So if we do the math on the three trucks, then I probably can't bring it up on the screen here, but 52,600 times three is actually 157, 800. Okay. Well in year four, he's only got 157, 363. So he's really close. So Nelson said, you know what, I didn't think anyone was going to give me the gears over that. Basically had to wait one extra month to have enough capital to finance all three trucks effectively. What happened?

That's exactly it. And again, so these nuggets of wisdom.

Man, I hope everybody really understands like the amazing gravity of this because Nelson, he just didn't have it in the book. He, he would go on to, and we were blessed beyond measure to be mentored by him and we would ask him a lot of these questions and he Would he would just smile like he was just, he was so happy to share, you know, sort of fill in the blanks on it. So thank you for pointing that out, Rich.

Yeah, and it's, you know, the whole key understanding here is, you know, you mentioned something, Jay, about using the.

The, the dividend surrenders or whatever to, to pay for the interest on the loan, etc. Well, you can kind of see here again in our death benefit column. Everyone will notice we haven't really pointed this out, but the death benefit, the net, repeat that net death benefit goes down partly because we have an outstanding loan. Okay. And because he's also doing some surrender to cover that simple interest on the loan. So we see that transpiring until the end of the, the, the, the four year period. And then I'm going to isolate this in yellow. Oops, that is definitively not yellow. The Death benefit is 1.712 versus the 1684 has increased by the time he's, they've repaid the loan. And there's been additional accumulation now in dividends and paid up additions happening. So we're seeing a decrease on the net side because of the outstanding loan. So heaven forbid this individual died. Let's say he took out the next truck and he died here in year nine, the very next day. Well, he's got a lower death benefit, tax free to pay out, but he's also got a fully paid for Peterbilt truck, three of them, to be clear. Three Peterbilt trucks fully paid for, that are basically brand new. They hardly have any miles on them yet. This is the other thing that's really important to understand in our example. You know, Nelson would always ask, why is it, you know, why has he got to go replace this truck every four years? Well, who here? You know, I'm gonna do show of hands, but just go ahead, type in the chat box. Anyone ever see a logging truck driving on the highway?

Okay. I would imagine if you've been on a highway, certainly on a Canadian road, you've probably seen a logging truck, maybe a few Peterbilt trucks. Well, you know, they put on a lot of miles in a big country, you know, here in Canada and in the US and it doesn't take very long to mile those things up. So after four years he's pretty much got to replace it because it doesn't make sense to keep maintaining it for the amount of work it's done on the road. Logging trucks do some hard, hard work, hard labor, working out on, you know, not all the nicest roads and they get beat up a little bit over that timeframe. So that's why I said pretty much every four years you got to replace the truck. Anyway.

Now I want to go to again, we're just going to isolate what you and I were chatting about in year eight here. So in the first segment, the capital. Oops, my apologies. I want to look at capital outlay. The capital net outlay goes from 160 to 218. So that increase is about 58 grand. $58,200. That is that extra quote, unquote, air quotes interest or the representation of that interest that would have went to associate finance being applied as premium strategically through Nelson's usage into this contract. Exactly.

It. It's the jelly in the sandwich.

Okay, now we're going to scoot all the way down. We're going to go to our summary point here at age 65, line 36. Okay. And we can see. I want to really isolate actually the dividend. We just showed that to everyone else in year. In the first example, the dividend, I believe it was 79,000. I think we captured that number roughly 79,000.

It was 71,942.

71,000. Okay, great. So we have virtually doubled the dividend. In other words, the activity of strategic utilization of capital warehousing, paying yourself first, committing the money to you versus to a third party through a warehouse that you control, has augmented the performance of the exact same policy by more than double. Just what the insurance company is doing because of the policy owner's behavior in this example. I mean, that's a drastic impact, really. We need to take heed of that, in my opinion.

And now Nelson would say to remember, this is ridiculously simple. All that he's doing is changing the process of where the money is flowing to. That's all that Terry is doing here. It's ridiculously simple. It's not meant to be sensationalized.

You know, we've got 2.9 million in cash value in example one where the insurance company did everything. On the baseline example, it was $1,500,000. So again, we've doubled, by financing and shopping at home, three trucks. We've doubled the output of the cash value. So he did pretty good if he lived. You know, in fact, he did pretty good if he died. It doesn't matter where on the chain that happened, does it? Pretty good if he lives or does. Pretty good. Now Nelson would say, look at age 65, you know, he's. He's worth 4.6 if he's dead. But you know what, let's not kill him off just yet. Let's let him live for a while and take a passive income. Right. And I really want to isolate right here. We're going to beat this up here. This is really important. The cumulative net outlay column, this whole second last column is so critically important. The cumulative debt outlay is 625 grand versus the 160,000 that we saw on our baseline example. That is a substantial increase in capital that has been deployed very effectively, very simply and very strategically into this warehouse, this machine of dividend paying, whole life insurance.

Can you go Back to page 54?

Of course I can. You know, Jay, for you I'm happy to do just about anything, man. You ask me, I'm there.

You are awesome. And what you said is so true, honestly. And thank you. So if you scroll down in the cumulative net outlay column, do you see at year 38 that it's negative $24,000?

Yep.

The reason that it's negative $24, Thousand is because he's drawn out more than the cost basis of the policy.

That's why it went to negative 24,000. But when he started implementing the process, what was he doing to the cost basis?

He was increasing it. So now go back to the illustration we were just looking at.

And you can see that it takes just a few more years before he's drawn out all of the cost basis. And when you draw out cost basis, do you pay tax on it?

Nope.

No. You pay no tax. So not only did he create more capital in the system and a larger tax free windfall, he also increased the basis of the policy so he could get more capital out without triggering a taxable event. It was his behavior that created a better outcome. Change your behavior, change the outcome. That's it.

And Nelson would say, and what. Once, once you're at that point, you know, he's. He also indicated that in equipment financing, this is the only place where he actually shows loans being utilized in the book. And he says if you switch to loans at that point, you can do things tax free. Now in the United States, as of present day, the, the tax rules still allow for policy loans to be received as a non taxable income. In Canada, the rules are slightly different. You can create the exact same outcome. The difference is we just have to change where the money comes from. Okay, so that's something that you can discuss with a coach. I book a call with one of our coaches. Someone can type in the, the phone number that you can text in to figure out how to do that, and they can actually walk you through that. In fact, we have a amazing podcast episode on wealth without Bay street shout out to wealth without Bay street podcast episode 100, where we literally draw that out and we map out exactly how that works and how it's functional and how you can understand that process very effectively if you're Canadian. Now, in the example, again, we can see, obviously as we go through each one of these segments, we see a continually increasing capacity of passive income. That's because Nelson's criteria never changed. In each example, he wanted, roughly speaking, the death benefit to be fairly level at the, you know, age 65 relative to age 84. And he was just adjusting the numbers to. To fit that example. Of course, how much you actually take out is of course up to the individual. But in this example, hey, this Guy gets out $2.6 million while alive and still leaves 5 million to the next generation. I would say, you know, seven and a half million dollars net benefit to the family is a pretty good deal for getting all of your capital back. This is the other thing we talk about recapturing interest or recapturing the capital. Well, we're not necessarily recapturing the cost, let's say of these trucks, but if we added up the cost of every truck that he's purchased at this point, Jay, do you think if we looked at this line 2.67 down here, or even the $3 million in cash value he has, he has more capital available than all of the trucks put together that he purchased.

Go ahead.

In the chat box, you guys let me know. Do you think he's got more capital available inside of this machine than all of the cost of every single truck that he purchased? I'd like to see that. The chat box shows us.

What are we looking at there?

More capital. Great. So the reality is he didn't you still to pay for the cost of those vehicles. He didn't get the cost of them back, but he's retained an equivalency of capital that is greater than that inside of his control. That's what we mean when we're talking about recapturing the. The cost of things because the system is so efficient that we're. We're retaining something that's always in growth mode effectively along the path. Anything to add to that, Jay?

No, that's perfectly said. And.

When we get to the final illustration, we'll be able to really expand on passive income and what Nelson was trying to show there.

Okay. So onwards to, to the next, I suspect.

Here we go. Illustration 5. Now, as far as the equipment finance is concerned, this is the illustration that shows the most amount of financing in the business operation. Given the constraints of the size of this policy. This policy was limited to how much money he could put in on the front end. It wasn't big enough to pull in all of the financing that he was doing upfront. It had to take time for it to build up to a stage where he could start doing more financing from the business. That make sense? Right. So we can see that we've got our three trucks happening. Three trucks happening. But then in year 13, we see a difference. The size of the annual outlay goes up because he's now going to pull in basically, I believe, all four trucks at this point.

That's right.

Financing all four trucks. And he basically continues to do that for the remainder of the, of the time frame of the policy. It took him a while to build up the reserve. He didn't have enough to do it until he got to that stage. There was enough capital available inside of the cash value where he could now buy out every truck that he was financing from the third party. Okay, so he's doing three trucks, oops. And then he's jumping to four trucks by the time he gets onto the, the third rotation, let's call it. Now, what's really cool about this example is Nelson started to bring up other aspects here. So I want to summarize the example first and then I want to tie into a few of the other observations that he wanted to make for other people. And before I jump in here, Jay, to the, you know, to the bottom segment, is there anything you want to add about this one? Before you talk about self insuring, etc.

You'Re doing awesome.

Keep going.

Well, here's one piece that I do want to highlight. Now a lot of people miss this because they don't. They're not necessarily looking for it. When you're looking at all these illustrations, they do kind of start to look the same and you recognize that obviously there's an improvement. Intuitively you know that things are getting better, but you don't necessarily always know and understand why. Nelson always wanted to point out that this is the only area where this particular individual has run into a problem. He can no longer be an honest banker in this example because you can see here, he's paying back $108,000. And in year 65 he only pays 79,000. The reason is he can't pay any more premium into the policy because it's fully paid up at this point. And he pays the loan off the remaining loan balance. So that extra amount of capital that he should be paying of as an honest banker, it has actually no room to go into this policy. The loan's down to zero, and he literally can't pay any more premium because it's a life paid of 65, which means it's. It's finalized. There's no more acceptance by the insurance company of premium dollars. So Nelson always wanted to ask a question, and I'm going to pose that question to everyone on watching us today. What do you think that this gentleman should do if he wanted to maintain being an honest banker? Go ahead and type it in the chat box. Let's see what we get.

He's got no more room in the policy, but he's got to keep paying himself. What should he do? Okay, I'm seeing a few responses here. Keep paying the premium to a new policy. Start another policy. Perfect second policy. Expand the system.

Love it.

So everyone here, if I could give you all gold stars, I would 100. Do that right now because these are perfect responses. And this one thing right here is something that industry members, when I say industry, I mean people in the life insurance business who, you know, become aware of Nelson's concept or they read the book once they glaze over, or don't often understand how we can expand the system. This is a perfect example of that. Now, at age 65, you would also think, well, why would you get another policy at 65? He's about to quote, unquote, using the old world word retire or start taking a passive income. Well, how about because he's an honest banker and because he wants to expand his system for the benefit of everyone that's around him. Probability there's been a new addition to a family member. Maybe one of his kids got married, maybe they got grandkids. Maybe he's getting great grandkids. The ability for him to expand the system has probably been constantly shifting and changing over this entire experience that he's been financing logging trucks. So I would venture to guess there's another body that he can go get a policy on. Would you agree, Jay?

All day long.

So really important piece here to isolate. So, you know, definitely make sure that you make a note of that in your book. If you got the physical book here. We can see now that we've got 3.5 million, of course, in capital. And what's. What I really want to isolate here, somebody maybe you can help Me Jay can just verify how much cash did we have in the insurance company? Only example, example 1, where there was no financing and the insurance company did.

Everything we had, like in cash value, we had $1,517,320.

Okay, so this is when the insurance company did everything. Yep. Now we financed three trucks and then four trucks for the rest of it.

And a treasure and a tree.

Sure. Yeah, that's right. Where did that. Yeah, that's. I forgot about the tree shirt came in. So we had a lot of financing coming through here. And we've increased this cash value now to 3.5 million. There's $2 million basically of capital has been created by shopping at home. Wasn't working any harder, didn't change his cash flow, didn't have to do business with anyone else. He didn't have to ask permission. He didn't have to go beg the government for a loan. He didn't have to go beg, fill in any Mickey Mouse paperwork to get any of the financing done. He was able to do all of this of his own volition, at his own schedule, on his timing, when it made sense, when he recognized he needed to replace a piece of equipment that is absolute and total control.

Good position to be in. And the 225,000. So do you see in the, the cumulative outlay, you can see that where he fully recovers all of the cost basis and then it goes negative at year 41.

So what Nelson, what Nelson would ask you is he would say, look, if you got $225,000 a year tax free, and then at year 41, you start triggering a taxable event on 225,000 a year.

What did you do to earn the money?

So if I, Richard, if I wrote you a check for 225,000 and I said the only condition of cashing it is you got to pay the tax on it, would you tell me to keep the check?

I'm pretty sure I would cash the check.

You would cash the check all day long. So again, Nelson said, work with what you've got. Even if you had no other option. If you couldn't collaterally assign the policy. If the tax laws changed in the US and policy loans became fully income taxable, work with what you got. If you get a check from the insurance company for $225,000 and you gotta pay tax on the thing.

Are you.

Going to object to getting the check? You did nothing to earn it. You're paying tax on the withdrawals coming out of your tax qualified plan and you're depleting the asset base.

Well there's, it gets even better than that, Jay. Even if that were the case, sooner or later someone's going to die.

I don't think anyone's getting out of here any other way. And so however much I take out, there's still a whole bunch of tax free that's going to happen here. And you better believe it's going to go to someone I care about. And if it's your family, it's going to go to someone you care about. And you get to make that decision.

All day long.

Family banking system.

SYSTEM.

Everyone in your family needs the use of money and they're going to require it for the rest of their lifetimes. So once you become a good steward and you become a good implementer of the process, you can transfer not only capital, but you can transfer the wealth mentality.

About the system, the family banking system to the next generation. And we at Ascendant and lifeva in the United States are US subsidiary. This is what we are coaching.

Others to do. And we're coaching them by first paving the way and showing them how we do it. And so super important for everybody who's on who.

You know, would prefer options to say, look, you know, I need to work with somebody in, in the implementation of this process.

Just make sure that the WHO possesses the capabilities to help you get the how done. And if the WHO has great product knowledge but an absence of process knowledge, all you're going to end up with is a great product. You'll be illustration number one.

If you work with the right who you can be even better than illustration number five.

Isn't that good?

It's good.

So just text the word schedule to 780-809-4599. That's 780-809-4599. And make sure that you sit down, get connected with the right person on our team and you'll be in great hands. We promise you that.

Now I know we'll get to the Q and a bit but I did see one that came up about just, I think it's important to clarify. So all the, the passive income, Nelson showing here is all based on a tax free passive income based on taking policy loans or collateral loans, depending on where you live, which border you live under. Okay. And the recognition of that is that you know that that possibility exists but it's also the policy owner's decision as to how they want to go about doing that. And there are tax consequences that can exist with These policies, that's all relative to having again, coaching, mentorship and understanding of when it's that time to go and initiate passive income. How do you want to go about doing it? Tax rules do change. That is not something that's under our control or anyone on this call's control. Well, I suppose your vote can help, but those are things that we want to be mindful of. So as of today, and really as of when Nelson wrote this book, these are all representing a tax free passive income.

Now going back to this, this example here, the next thing that we kind of want to dial in is we're going to go back up and look at this total cash value amount. And you'll notice that here in your year 12, of course, he's got a pretty substantial amount, 365,000. And with the flow of financial energy coming back as repayments on that loan, you know, it doesn't take long for that to start accumulating again. Now Nelson, at this point, he would want to direct people's attention to another way of thinking. And that had to do with what is each one of those trucks in the tree shears. What do they all require if you want to go buy them? So I'll stop the screen share for a second. You want to go buy a vehicle today, I don't care what kind of vehicle it is, and you're going to go finance it with a third party. What does that third party require that you have to have in place before they will agree to finance that loan on that vehicle? So insurance. Yeah, you got. Now Nelson pointed out to us, if we go back to the Exhibit 1, which is a financing package for that, that Peterbilt truck, there's a whole giant segment there that we didn't even look at when we had it up earlier on the screen. So let's bring that up right now. So here on exhibit one, we can see we've got of course, a description of the vehicle and take a look at what takes up one third of the whole page, this whole section about insurance. Now you'll notice on this particular area, everything says na not applicable.

Required physical damage insurance. A physical damage insurance is required by this contract until the indebtedness is fully paid. So that means that the insurance provider providing collision coverage is going to charge. On the example of this, you know, the quote for these trucks, by the way, was 21. Oops. Let's bring that into a pen. $2,100 a year.

Per truck. He had four trucks. Well, that's 8,400 bucks a year of additional cash flow flowing out of the business's books going to some other insurance company. Well, the property and casualty insurance company, they probably bought some of the money from life insurance company's money block.

Okay.

And you know, what are they going to do with the payment stream that 8100, $8,400 a year. Aren't they going to go take that and go lend it out to someone else? So he doesn't own that property insurance company. He owns his whole life insurance contract, which makes him a participate owner in a big giant money pool that seems to be doing a pretty good job with the money based on how he's financing everything. So Nelson would say look, this is based on a thousand dollar deductible on each truck. Well, if you had to create your own the makings of your own property and casualty company with your own physical goods of this nature, you would probably charge yourself a zero deductible. So wouldn't you have to increase the premium? Says at minimum you should be paying yourself $2,500 for each truck, which would be 10 grand, 10 grand a year. And then you should be applying that essentially into a premium on a new policy. So you're harnessing the potential. Now the other thing he would say is this. So let's actually, let's hear from the group, let's see in this chat box. Who here has ever seen a logging truck.

In a auto body shop?

Type, type an N in the chat box. If you haven't a y, if you have anyone here ever seen a logging truck going, getting a new paint job done, it's all nose all knows. Okay, so that's not really the purpose of a logging truck. It's got to move big chunking logs down to a lumber mill somewhere. So it's pretty rare you see something like that happen. Now lots of other trucks do get that done. Logging trucks, not very often. So Nelson would say, you know, he would do seminars, he would go about, about his business, he would get called to go and travel all over North America and do seminars and we always stay in a hotel. Or he would stay with the host family. And you know, one time he was staying in a hotel, you know, and he would say, yeah, I don't usually turn on the tv, I usually read. But this one day I guess I was pretty tired. I turned on the TV and I'm flipping through the channels as most people do and would, lo and behold, would you believe it, I came across the, the Sci Fi Channel. Now I don't normally watch anything like that, but this one time I was particularly intrigued. There was this. This program that came on. It was all about, you know, Martians and spacemen and spaceships and stuff. And, man, you know, for some reason, I was pretty intrigued by that. So I watched the whole dang thing, and I got to thinking, you know, uncle Terry, you know, being. Being Nelson. Nelson being the uncle for Terry, the logging truck. You know, what would happen if he had a total loss on one of those trucks? So it says, just imagine, you know, you got those spacemen. They come in. We don't know anything about them. They got all this technology. They come flying around earth, and they look down and see, well, that's a building. They don't know what that is. There's a tree. And what's that thing moving on the ground going pretty fast? They don't know it's a logging truck. For all they know, that could be a weapon. They got one of them ray guns, and they just completely destroy and turn that logging truck into a giant piece of molten metal. A total complete loss. There's no recovery process. That's not going to any auto body shop. Okay, well, if he had to call the regular property casualty company, he would have to pay his deductible, and he would say, you know, I got a total off. They'd have to send an adjudicator, someone down. It would. It would delay him having a truck on the road. It would slow down the business. He would have to go get a replacement. All of these steps would have to take place. And I'm sure people on this call have been through that process before. Now, if he had the makings of his own pool of capital for the replacement value of a truck. And remind us, what's the replacement value of a truck? 52,600 bucks. Well, if we go back to our example, I'll bring it back up on the screen here. And I believe that's page. Refresh my memory here. Which page are we on? 62, I think it is. All right, let's take a look at how much capital he's got at the point where he thinks it's reasonable to go and self finance these vehicles. So roughly around year, year 13, year, year 12 here, he's got enough capital that he could go and replace a truck. So maybe it's an appropriate time because he has the reserve available that he could replace a truck in a total loss, that he could start redirecting the flow of that financial energy away from the property and casualty company into new policies and new premium and start building up a whole nother reserve of capital, same cash flow, just redirecting who's getting the money. So now he's self insuring for those capital items, which means if he does have a total loss, he has to go to his reservoir to access it. But his reservoir is always accumulating and he has a pretty good idea of his business and how often he has to deal with a total loss on a vehicle. One more statement on this, and Nelson talked about this. You know, if you go to an auto body shop, and I don't want to pick on anybody, especially if you own one, but typically the first question they ask you when you have to bring something in for a claim, what's the number one question they ask you? Who's your.

Insurance company? Right.

Yep.

Because they want to run all the claims to the insurance. What does that do to the price of the job to go get everything fixed? Does it go up or down?

Usually goes up. Whereas if you say, you know what, I'm not doing it through insurance, what's your best cash price? You know, you might be able to negotiate a totally different deal. Because as everything goes through insurance claim process, the claim process itself increases the workload for the auto body shop. They have to deal with paperwork and all kinds of unnecessary Mickey Mouse stuff that increases the cost for everyone. So in the event that that molten piece of truck could be replaced in some way, maybe you could take it in, someone could fix it. Probably not, probably not even going to strip any parts out of it. But the whole idea that you can control the environment one step even further, one additional layer of control under your circumstance is really what Nelson wanted people to understand.

And so is Terry now making a good living in both business.

He's doing pretty damn good in the logging business and the banking business. And Nelson said everyone should be in two businesses. What are they?

Rich? The business which you do to make your living and the business of banking. And of the two, banking is the most important. There you go.

And I should summarize here because I want to make sure I don't overstep or make anything unclear. We're not talking about liability coverage on logging or something. We're talking about like collision, buyer theft, collision related stuff where those are often optional unless you're financing it. If you're financing it with a third party lender is not optional, it's required. You can't get out of that deal. So it's important to understand where you have these layers of Control that you can build into your financial life that can improve your financial outcomes simply by redirecting the flow of money that was going somewhere else into something you have.

Ownership and control over and change your thinking. Because remember, everything begins with the way that we think. And so when you read equipment financing, replace that financing all the things that I'll need throughout the course of my lifetime and then becoming, becoming part of the family banking system. So that you are not only transferring knowledge, you're transferring or money, you're transferring a wealth mentality. And that wealth mentality means that you're teaching your family a process. You're not encouraging them to go and buy production, you're teaching them a process. And then you create this perpetual financial motion inside of your family. And when you compare that against what all other families are doing, which is transferring all their financial energy away from them permanently, and you're doing something entirely different without changing your financial objectives.

You'Re.

Going to be in a much different scenario financially as a result of that. And so we wanted to really point these things out in the equipment financing example so that you understand, don't gloss over it. If you don't have a need to finance equipment, you have a greater need for finance for all those things that you're going to need throughout your lifetime than you do for death benefit protection. And you solve for that need through this instrument, you'll end up with more death benefit than the underwriters would ever have approved you for because of all the paid up additions and additional premium. Isn't that good?

I sure think so.

And the only losers in this scenario are associate finance and the irs.

So there we have it. That was fun.

That was good. That was good. I should we zone out, we zone in on some Q A or I guess we should. I'm sure it's been handled pretty well by the, by the team.

Oh yeah, the team rocked it. I was looking in the Q A window and they were just like. We had to extinguish keyboards that were bursting into flames because the, the team was doing such a good job. Which again, we shower our team with credit because it's so well deserved. Rich and I couldn't jam like this and navigate through this type of session without the support of all of our teammates who are on. So shout out to all of our teammates who are here. We appreciate you, we're very grateful for you. Thank you for being awesome.

And I think it'd be good. We should probably do a quick value check in. You know, look in the chat Box, you know, scale of 1 to 10, 10 is you've got tremendous, amazing value out of this going through Nelson's book. And a one is you would have rather watched paint dry. Um, let's know where you're at.

Okay. Tens. All tens.

And so far. Okay, good. So no, nobody, nobody wants to watch paint dry. Good. Awesome.

Glad that's the case. And you know, I'm, I'm, I'm also just curious. You know, obviously we've, we're doing a very intense section of Nelson's book. It's something that, you know, physical book, you got to flip back and forth and forth a lot. Even today we flip back and forth just digitally. Yeah. And you know, I'd love to know if, if this clarified. So you can do type of Y in if that's the case, if this clarified anything for you in Nelson's book or specifically in this section. If so, did anyone seek any or get any additional clarity by going through the. The book with us today in this segment? So why for yes and n, for no. Love to hear your thoughts on that.

And then we got one more thing before everybody hits the road. Yeah, everybody is saying absolutely, absolutely plentiful, lots of clarity.

Amazing feedback, which we're so appreciative of the one thing. So thinking in terms of reciprocation, if, like we got so many tens on the value check in, we would be grateful if you could just take a moment. We're going to put links into our Google reviews. If you can select a link that is closest to you geographically and just click on that link. And for our American friends who have joined us, just click on any of the Canadian links. We don't, I don't think we have the American links up there, but if you could just take a moment, click the link and leave us a Google review and just share in your own words what your experience was like being here with Rich and I today.

You would be shocked at how many people connect with us and we ask them, what was your tipping point? And they say, found you on Google. Took a look at the hundreds upon hundreds of five star Google reviews that you have and the real feedback that people have left regarding their experience in dealing with you. That's what compelled us to take the next step in our journey. So it is you, the reviewer that is having that impact on someone's life and you may not even be aware of it. And so if you just select a link, click on it, leave us a review, we would be very grateful as that being, I think a Reasonable exchange for the value that we've delivered here.

For all of you today.

It's good.

I think it's better than good.

Yeah.

This.

And remember, the two most important words in the title of this book are right here.

Your own becoming your own banker. That's what we want you to do.

I feel like, I feel like now that we've got our books out, we should show people some of our equipment financing note pages.

Oh, God, yeah, let's do that here, hold on, I'll, I'll bring up mine here as well.

Here's an example. See, these are just gems of notes that we've taken over all the years, being blessed beyond measure to have been mentored from Nelson and for him to be so generous with his time and his wisdom and to expand on what he wrote in the book. And the other thing I want to point out to people, if you haven't yet, just go to the Nelson Nash Institute YouTube channel. Go to the Nelson Nash Institute YouTube channel and when you get there, hit the subscribe button because we are making significant enhancements to that YouTube channel and we are doing that as a token of gratitude to everything that we learned from Nelson and it's our way of giving. So head on over to that channel. You're going to see a brand new channel banner. You're going to see.

So many great videos that are already there, but we're going to be posting additional content there. And so just hit the page, hit the subscribe button and we would appreciate that very much.

I'll put the, Someone might have already dropped it in the chat box there, but I'll drop in the chat box as well. And.

And you know, one other thing I'll mention, great resource for people, which I definitely think that people should have on this call specifically. So we have an amazing page on our website. Learn from Nelson. Go to learnfrom nelson.com we have a whole revived seminar series with Nelson that was a tremendous amount of work to get available for everyone. This is effectively a recording of Nelson walking through his book. And in fact, the equipment financing example is in the last number of, of examples and even Nelson's alien spaceman story is in there. So you can walk through the book with Nelson as well. And there's little, little highlights of the, of the book and clips of the book that all go along with it in the B roll. So really, really good to go through as part of your ongoing education.

Effectively. It is, it is a, a playlist that's available on our Bankers Vault channel. It's all kind of right here. There's about 30 videos encompassing and I think it's probably comes in maybe at around five hours altogether in content, roughly. Yeah. So really good option to go through and listen to this again from Nelson's vantage point. Especially now with the new knowledge you have know, being on with us today and getting a chance to walk through things. Absolutely.

And.

Thank you for being here with Rich and I today. Nothing related to this process brings us more joy than being able to share with you what, what we learned from Nelson and to, to just again give him so much credit. And he shared, he shared with me a couple of weeks before he graduated. He said, I always want you to remember that it's about the message, not the man.

And we do our very best to respect that. Nelson was so humble. But we do need to give Nelson credit. You know, he developed, pioneered the process. Rich, you and I wouldn't be on this webinar right now had it not been for him. And if you look at the most successful producers of dividend paying, participating, whole life insurance in terms of sales and placement of these contracts, all roads lead back to.

This man. One way, shape or form that, that, that road is going to lead back to him. And so credit to him. I miss him. I think about him every day.